Meme Stocks are Back — What’s Fueling the Resurgence?

26:53You'd probably rather go with a compute provider who you ultimately won't be competing with. In this case, that would be Oracle. So that was last year. The stock is up 45 % year to date. It's up 75 % in the past year. And since I first made the prediction about Oracle and its role, just my bullish position on its role in cloud computing, it's up more than 100%. What was interesting and what we've seen is I wouldn't have expected that OpenAI would go to Oracle. But they are ultimately, I think, going to Oracle for the same reasons which I predicted, which is that OpenAI is now having issues with Microsoft.

27:37and they kind of regret that they sort of signed their soul away to be owned by Microsoft and ultimately controlled by Microsoft. And now it's becoming this very tenuous and difficult relationship. We obviously saw OpenAI buying that company, Windsurf, and then they couldn't buy them in the end because Microsoft said they wanted to have all the rights to the IP, which didn't make sense because Windsurf was supposed to be a competitor to Copilot, etc., etc. We have this issue arising where OpenAI is realizing, oh, wow, we sold ourselves to someone who is a competitor, or at least who will be a competitor if we really want to play ball here.

28:17And so I think that is a big reason why they are switching over to Oracle, because they're realizing, OK, we need to kind of get away from this sort of adoptive parent relationship we have with this big tech company. Let's go to someone else who we don't want to compete with. Let's go to Oracle. And I think that's definitely the dynamic that is playing out for many other AI startups as well, which is why you're seeing this massive increase in Oracle's cloud revenue, as you said, up 50 % year over year, their fastest growing business. So a couple of things. I asked Dan Shalon, our analyst, to pull together a brief explainer because I said, I'm having trouble discerning between a data center and an AI data center.

28:59So data centers are giant computer warehouses that store, process, and send information for all types of things, including cloud storage, apps, and sites. AI data centers are specialized versions of these warehouses that contain GPUs to train and run artificial intelligence models. So they're focused on the specified or specific compute to train these models. They're much more, as it ends up, energy intensive. Data centers provide processing power for it as compute. The more GPUs a data center has, the more compute it can deliver. And then at the very beginning are power plants that generate the electricity that keeps data centers running.

29:39AI data centers, as you can imagine, use huge amounts of energy. What's interesting about the infrastructure side, and now Oracle basically wants to be, I would imagine Larry Ellison, his dream is he wants to be on stage next to Jensen Huang, right? He wants to be the John Oates. Was it Daryl Hall and John Oates of AI compute infrastructure, right? He wants to be the Ginger Rogers, right? Okay, fine. You can be Fred Astaire or I'll be Jerry Lewis and you can be Dean Martin. I'm trying to think of great duos, but I'm not doing a very good job here. The Ed Allison. There you go. Now, but you're number one.

30:18He's willing to be Scottie Pippen to Jensen Huang's Michael Jordan. But if he can be the number two infrastructure player here, he's going to do really well because the infrastructure, if you look at NVIDIA, NVIDIA's top customers, their capex has grown one and a half times as fast as revenue. So their customer base is not only the customers or the companies that have the fastest growing top line revenues in the world, but they're spending 50 % more than the revenue growth on infrastructure. And just let me go back to Oracle. When I moved to New York, when I thought I was going to be rich, I moved to New York and thought, okay, I'm going to be a professor.

30:57And I joined the faculty of NYU. Do you know what my first year salary was at NYU as an adjunct professor? I'm going to guess$30 ,000. $12 ,000. But anyways, how I got here and how this is relevant, the universities have exceptional benefits. And they'll match up to 10 % of your salary in your retirement plan. and I picked two stocks. I picked Oracle and I picked Nike. And this is back in 2002. And I always put, and this is my advice to young people, the first thing you do when you get a job anywhere, anywhere, you go to HR and you say, what tax advantage investment programs do you have here? And you max them out, max them out.

31:41And ideally it comes right out of your check. So that money never floats through your hands. And the Nike investment has not paid off. I've owned Nike stock for 22 years. It was great for about 10 or 15 years. The stock is at kind of a 10-year low now. And Oracle was a fairly mediocre performer. And then the last 10 years, it's just skyrocketed. Anyways, I have Nike and Oracle in my 401k. So thank you. Thank you, Larry Ellison. Just going back to what you said about what actually is a data center, I think it can be confusing to people because one thing that we've seen in the media and the way that this has been reported on this deal between OpenAI and Oracle is that a lot of people are calling it an AI power plant.

32:24People are thinking of it as this is literally a place where you generate power. And I think it is confusing because, as I mentioned, they're going to rent out four and a half gigawatts of power, which makes you think Oracle is in the business of building, I don't know, electricity generators or dams or nuclear power plants. That's not what's going on here. This is a data center. And just to sort of remind you of what is the AI supply chain, what happens when you type in a prompt on ChatGPT, what is the supply chain of events that leads to that prompt showing up on your screen. The first thing you've got is the power generation by the energy companies and a variety of energy companies.

33:10You use that power to power the chips that are made by NVIDIA that are in the data centers. And the data centers, those are owned and operated by Oracle and by AWS and by Microsoft, etc. And their job is basically to manage all of the computing power in those chips and to turn it into a menu of options that is easy for OpenAI to basically plug in and say, we want to host our software services on your server. so that's sort of the difference you've got the power being generated the power goes into the data center oracle uh amazon they operate those data centers they they operationalize manage it scale it and then they rent it out to people and so that's what that's what's really happening here and so when we when we hear that term four and a half gigawatts basically that's that's another way of saying Oracle is renting out four and a half gigawatts worth of computing capacity to open AI.

34:17So I just think it's a good reminder of what is actually happening in the AI world and what actually is a data center. Final point before we move on here. Trump last week announced his AI action plan, which happened at an event that was hosted by the All In podcast. Let's just go through what the plan is. First off, he just got rid of Biden's AI executive orders. He said that was bad and he's issuing a new plan. Okay, what is he going to do? He said he's going to withhold funding from any states that impose any AI regulations. This was a big question. States wanted to get their act together on AI.

34:59And he's saying, no, if you do that, you're not going to get any funding. So that's the first thing. And that actually is pretty substantive. He also said he's going to launch, quote, creative approaches to export control enforcement, which is basically like a non-answer to the question of what are we going to do with these NVIDIA chips, which China wants? There's been all these questions. What are we going to do with all of these exports? Are we going to limit the export controls? He gave no clarity on that. So that was the other thing that happened. He denounced the US permitting process, saying that it is, quote, impossible to build data centers, which, by the way, is false.

35:37The US has more data centers than any other country, over 5 ,000. The second best is Germany, which has just 529. So we have a permitting problem in terms of housing. We don't have a permitting problem in terms of data centers. And I think Meta is proof they're about to build a data center the size of Manhattan in Louisiana. So another sort of distraction. But the final, and I think this is what it's really all about, and I think this is really what he cares about. The final plan, well, I'll let you guess. What do you think is the number one mission of the new AI plan under the Trump administration?

36:16To transfer wealth from Los Angeles, New York, and the rest of the nation to his buddies in San Francisco by violating having absolutely no guardrails or having kind of the Wild West in terms of their ability to crawl, pervert, and monetize other people's IP. Yeah, I think that's probably the subtext. That's the reality of the plan. That's not the thing that I was thinking of. Go ahead, what is? It's to get rid of wokeness. Oh, God. So the plan is to, quote, revise the AI risk management framework to eliminate references to misinformation, transformation diversity equity and inclusion and climate change so you know social the definition of socialism is that when the government decides they should control the means of production outside of systemic regulation so deciding you need a golden chair because you know how to run a steel company or to decide what is woke or not woke or decide if you know who columbia should or should not be admitting this is all socialism this is the government this is so anti-republican that the government knows better than the private sector.

37:18By the way, we should call it not as AI policy, but as AI Epstein policy. All of this is a distraction from the real story that he's trying to distract from. But anyways, Rocio Epstein, the Epstein tariff policy, the Washington Epsteins, not the commanders. Anyways, the thing I take away from this is this is that moment in time when we passed 230, which at the time made sense, but now no longer makes sense, where this effectively is a transfer of wealth from old media companies to AI. Because old media companies have to spend a lot of money putting Anderson Cooper on the ground in, you know, in Iran or wherever.

37:52They take huge risks. They spend a lot of money fact-checking and making sure that Stephanie Ruhle has the right language and looks great and has a cool studio. In fact, I mean, this shit's expensive. Traditional media, writing books, producing music videos, it's really expensive and hard. And basically what they've opted here is they said, you can just steal all of it, process it, figure out a way to make, slice it up and make, take a one pound block of cheese and turn it into 16 slices that are worth more. And we don't mind. And now I'm of two minds on this. America has a tendency to be kind of ready, fire, aim, and that is err on the side of a lack of regulation.

38:29And I do think there's a solid argument that America's economic growth could largely one of the many factors could be that we let our horses run. And that's what they're doing here. They're saying, don't get in the way of AI. AI is driving the markets, 40 % of the S &P, S &P is 50 % of the world equity markets. Let our thoroughbreds run. And I actually found this policy more thoughtful than a lot of the policies they've put out. I think David Sachs or whoever's advising him has said, okay, let's at least touch on the key points and let's pretend we're good at governance and we've actually been thoughtful about this.

39:09I thought this was actually one of the more thoughtful releases from the company, but they have said effectively like we did in 97 with Section 230, we are opting for the new guys. Now, the economic argument would be, okay, if you fuck over Penguin Portfolio, Ramden House, Simon & Schuster, Warner Brothers, you know basically every traditional old media company and we take money from them we take their one dollar which they get 50 cents for in the market and we turn it into six dollars but you're going to see a continued erosion in original ip and the creative you know the people who want to go into journalism people who want to go into the arts it's a transfer of wealth from the creative community to the technology community in san francisco and just one final point on the wokeness, the market can decide what's too woke for itself.

39:56Like if the people decide that the algorithms are too woke, then they will decide that and they'll go for the algorithms that are less woke. They'll go for Grok or they'll go for ChatGVT. So the idea that we're still going on about this woke thing and we need the president to come in and say, we got to end the wokeness in AI. It's just, I'm just getting so tired of this stuff. It's like, wokeness was a thing half a decade ago. Like, do we really need to keep on rehashing this and hitting the nail on the head? And to your point, it's just, it's a fun talking point that he knows kind of hits for people.

40:39It gets them annoyed and riled up against the annoying libs. meanwhile it sort of distracts from all of the other issues with the tariffs and with Epstein and with Epstein and with Epstein and so that's why he's hitting on it but again it's it's just it's uh it's a waste of time is what I would say agreed we'll be right back after the break with a look at a resurgence in meme stocks if you're enjoying the show so far hit follow and leave us a review on Profitry Markets.

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43:52We're back with Prof G Markets. The meme stock craze has returned. Krispy Kreme, GoPro, Beyond Meat and 1-800-Flowers all skyrocketed in volatile trading sessions last week. Shares of Opendoor jumped as much as 121%, and Coal's stock more than doubled. None of these rallies were tied to earnings or to any actual news with the company. Instead, they were fueled by social media chatter, especially on Reddit's Wall Street Bets page. It's funny, just after this happened, you know, everyone was talking about the meme stock craze is back. and then suddenly American Eagle announces this new ad campaign with Sidney Sweeney.

44:35Everyone starts talking about it online, gets a ton of social media buzz, and then within a day, meme stock movement happens, shares in American Eagle rise more than 20%, which was more than $200 million in market cap added to the company just because of this Sidney Sweeney ad. So basically what we have is meme stocks are back. Obviously, the GameStop craze happened in 2021. That was a huge deal. There were sort of questions over, is this a once-in-a-lifetime thing? Is this a one-off? Or are meme stocks here to stay? This is our proof. Meme stocks are here to stay. This is just a systemic part of the market now.

45:18And we're seeing this resurgence that really hit kind of a boiling point this week. So Scott, your initial reactions to what we saw in terms of mean stocks this week. I think it goes back to the financial crisis and that is, or the great financial recession, and that is up until, really up until COVID, we had this natural cycle in our economies where capital aggregates more and more power and then there's an exogenous event, a war, famine, a recession, and there is a natural and healthy redistribution of capital back from the owners to the earners. What do I mean by that? There's a war. The factory gets bombed.

45:59The guy who owned the factory loses a shit ton of money, but you still need people to build a factory. They have more margin power, and there's a redistribution back in wealth. When the 2008 recession, Great Financial Recession happened, we bailed out the banks, but we didn't bail out the entire economy. and guys like me who were coming into the prime income earning years back then had a chance to buy Apple, Amazon, as I've said, and Netflix for$8,$10, and$12 a share. But since then, since COVID came along, we said, no, we're not going to let the natural cycle of exogenous events take the incumbent's wealth down and give entrants such as Ed Elson an opportunity to buy Brooklyn real estate for$1 ,000 a foot instead of$2 ,000 a foot or a chance to buy stocks at a P.E.

46:41of 12 instead of 30. We're going to use young people's credit cards to prop up the value of incumbents' assets. And young people are smart. They said, you know what? Fuck this. I can't buy a home. Stocks are crazy expensive. So what am I going to do? I'm going to create my own asset classes and I'm going to create my own volatility. And I'm also going to weaponize mediums such as Reddit to try and inspire huge spikes in stock prices such that I can make money. And you also collapse it with what I'll call this Dopa monster generation. And that is buying and holding a Vanguard fund, it just doesn't really get your generation excited.

47:19This is a generation all hopped up on TikTok and snaps and streaks that is used to a media Dopa. They're carrying around an arcade, a porn site, a casino in their pockets, and they're used to on-demand Dopa. So a combination of one, they think the game is rigged, so they're not going to play the boomers game of investing in the market or real estate because they can't afford to, creating their own asset classes. And also, quite frankly, this is just straight up gambling. This is a huge dopa hit. And then the algorithms love shoving in your face 210 times a day a screenshot from some douchebag in Miami that has made a million dollars buying Cum Rocket.

47:59And also on the Democrat side, when Nancy Pelosi leaves Congress with a quarter of a billion dollars in wealth based on insider trading, young people naturally think the game is rigged. I'm not going to participate in your game. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Just to go through the performances of these stocks in the past week, GoPro is up 99%. Kohl's is up 30%. Opendoor up 20%. But it's up over 390 % in the past month. And then it came back down. So just an example of how these things can kind of go wrong and Krispy Kreme up 40%. And I think it's definitely true that this is a young man's game.

48:38And I think that is exemplified in the fact that what's the meme stock that we saw rip at the end of the week? It was the company that paired up with Sidney Sweeney, who has become just sort of like the icon of the kind of young male incel movement in a lot of ways. And so, yeah, she's driving hundreds of millions of dollars worth of value for this company within a day. And it's just unbelievable. And to your point, I think the reason that this is happening is because it's fun and it's, you know, it's a distraction. and it involves social media and it's social, etc. But as you say, young people have such a small menu of legitimate investment options.

49:30I mean, as you say, you've got the S &P trading at around 25 times earnings. When my parents were my age, it was trading at 11 times earnings. We just saw the home price data last week. Average price of a home hit another record high, $435 ,000 for the median home in America. And then also, we can't really invest in startups either, because as we've discussed a lot, these startups, these really successful startups like OpenAI, SpaceX, they're not going public. And so young people and retail investors are gated out. So you can barely even invest in AI. Or if you do want to invest in AI, you got to invest at these high PE multiples with these big tech companies that are sort of consuming AI.

50:17So to your point, we invent new asset classes, we invent crypto, and we invent meme stocks. And we have a lot of fun doing that. But I think the big warning that I would clarify, I feel like my generation has this feeling that these meme stocks and these crypto movements, that it's a very sort of us versus them mentality, where we're taking on the big bad banks and we're taking on the big bad institutions. But what we're forgetting is another big part of the story, which is, by definition, it is actually us versus us. Because when you're entering a casino, it is a gambling game and And there's a loser on the other side.

51:04Because remember, we're not investing in cash flows. We're not investing in real businesses. We're playing a game of musical chairs where the only way you can get rich off of this is if you sell at the peak. And the thing you got to remember, last year, meme stock investors lost$13 billion in one week. You look at GameStop, GameStop is down 70 % since its peak during the Reddit saga. So the thing you got to remember, okay, retail owned the institutions. They owned the banks. They owned Melvin Capital. They also owned themselves. A lot of people lost a lot of money here. And the same is true of crypto.

51:42And I think that's the part of the story that people kind of whisper. They love this dynamic of the young people taking on the old people. And it's really fun when the old people get screwed. But let's be very honest. A lot of young people are getting screwed too. It's just that you're not hearing those stories because they're less exciting to report on. We said in the algebra of wealth, we know how to get you rich. That's the good news. The bad news is it's slowly and it's boring. And this notion that you can get rich quick, you're right. Anyone, this notion, this bullshit notion, stick it to the man, right?

52:19When anyone tells you to stick it to the man, that means you're about to get a spear in your chest. And the person telling you to stick it to the man is the man. So, you know, these things are fun. You know what I would say is I love to gamble if you get some dope ahead. But take at least 70, 80, 90 percent of your hard-earned dollars that you work so hard to spend less than you make and save money and put it into the most boring, low-fee shit ever. And if you talk to people who are wealthy and economically secure and can focus on the relationships, they got there through really boring means. and just keep in mind, if you're doing this, you're gambling.

52:58And not only is it the capital risk, it's the amount of time you're spending. I mean, it's just, I'm still working on how much time I check my stocks. I'm like, okay, that is not a good use of my time. The final thing I would add on this, just in terms of the us versus them, retail versus institutions dynamic, the other thing you have to keep in mind now is that a lot of institutions are in on the meme stock thing. And a lot of institutions are actually spending money hiring these smart social media savvy young people to help them figure out how to make all these arbitrage plays on the meme stocks.

53:37And in fact, 40 % of hedge funds are now using social sentiment analytics for their trading strategies in 2025, compared to three years ago when it was 10%. In other words, hedge funds see what's happening. Their job actually is to trade. And so they're investing and figuring out, OK, how do we take the money from these meme stockpops? They're hiring people who are tracking Google search and tracking Twitter and tracking Reddit voraciously. And that's now who you're up against. You might not have been up against that in 2021 when this first started happening. But now that this is part of the markets, this is just the way of the world now.

54:21Yeah, the quant trading firms, the hedge funds are now figuring out how to do this really, really well. So another way to sort of burst this bubble that you're one-upping the institutions. It's probably not what's going to happen here. The happiest countries in the world are not a function of what they have. They're a function of what they don't have. Specifically, they have an absence from stress. When you find out in Norway that your wife has lung cancer, it doesn't mean you're also going bankrupt. You don't have to worry about your kid's education. You know that good education is free and available.

54:53And one of the things you want to think about as a young person is you want to clear out opportunities for real downside depression and anxiety. And when you sign up and you start spending any money other than what you could lose all of on something like a mean stock, you're setting yourself up for some really ugly moments that could trigger a fairly serious mental health episode. And that is, it's tempting when you're bored and you don't have a lot going on and you get a little bit of money to think, okay, I'm going to believe Roaring Kitty or someone on Reddit and I'm going to go all in on GameStop.

55:27And you might lose 70 % of your money that you were planning to use to re-enroll in, you know, junior college. And you really, it's really mentally taxing. It's really upsetting. And the upside there, unfortunately, as a species, we don't get as much joy from the upside as pain we get from the downside. So what you want to do is find stocks that will invest in the market, be diversified, and let the economy and demographics take over and focus all of your energy on building unique skills and relationships. And then wake up when you're my age and realize you're economically secure. You are setting yourself up when you play this game to have a mental health episode.

56:07It's really, as someone who this has happened to a lot of times, I have stupidly set myself up for months, not years because I think I'm fairly resilient, of real mental health episodes and anxiety and disliking myself and seeing the world through a dark colored lens because I decided, oh, I'm smarter than everybody. I'm going to borrow money against my red envelope stock because we're clearly going public. And then when it didn't happen, I'm really upset at myself. and it's not worth it. And you think, well, you could have been worth a lot of money if you'd gone all in. Yeah, but the upside, that potential upside was not worth the downside of that emotional hit to my wellbeing.

56:51So if you wanna have some fun, fine, have at it. But be clear, it's like when I go down to the casino, I expect to lose all of it and I only gamble the money, a maximum amount of money that if I lose all of it, You know, doesn't matter. Doesn't fucking matter. Let's hit, let's go to Cirque du Soleil and then the strip clubs or whatever, and I'm fine. I don't remember it. I don't do either of those things. Anyways, but you really want to be thoughtful not only about the return on your investment and the loss of capital, you want to protect the downside of yourself emotionally because, you know, we're sentient beings and your emotions and how you feel every day are oftentimes more a function of your chemistry.

57:34But these things can trigger really dark, depressive episodes. So I don't like these things. I think they're bad for the mental health of America. I think they undermine confidence in the markets. And they're an externality and an indication of just how fed up your generation is with mine. Let's take a look at the week ahead. We'll see earnings from Spotify, Microsoft, Meta, Amazon, and Apple. It's also a huge week for economic data. On Tuesday, we'll get a read on consumer confidence for July. On Wednesday, we'll get the U.S. GDP report for the second quarter. And the Federal Reserve will also meet for its next interest rate decision.

58:15A day later, we'll see the Personal Consumption Expenditures Index for June. That is the Fed's preferred measure of inflation. And finally, on Friday, we will see the U.S. employment report for July. Any predictions, Scott? Alphabet is going to outperform the market over the rest of the year. And if you look at its earnings, you know, supposedly AI is this existential threat. A search was up 13%. YouTube was up, I believe, 12%. It has five amazing distinct units that have over, you know, 100. This thing is just a juggernaut and it continues to perform. Its cloud unit is growing like crazy. And it trades at a P of 23 versus 26 for the broader market.

59:03And I always say that let's take two average S &P companies, and I always pick Dow and P &G, which are amazing companies. Would you rather own Dow or P &G? Would you rather have Tide or Waymo, the leading autonomous driving unit? So they've also increased their CapEx to$80 billion, which is more than Meta and just behind Amazon at$100 billion. Microsoft's at$80 billion, and Alphabet's going to be at$85. They're trading, again, I just think they're relative to the S &P, this existential overhang of the threat of AI does not appear to be bearing out here. So, look, I think this company, I think Alphabet for the rest of the year is going to outperform the rest of big tech.

59:48I totally agree. So undervalued. There's just no question. I would love for us to get maybe a Google bear on the program because I don't understand what the market's view is on this. I mean, it seems so obvious to me, and we've been saying it for so long, and every time we keep seeing earnings and they keep on outperforming, I just don't understand who are all these Google bears? Why do these earnings reports come out? They crush earnings and then the market shrugs. This has to end at some point. And so I would, yeah, violent agreement with you on that. Five separate businesses that do$30 billion or more in annual revenue.

1:00:28Google Search, their display ad network, YouTube subscriptions, and seven products and platforms with over 2 billion users. Search Maps, Gmail, Android, Chrome, Play Store, and YouTube. And Waymo, which is hands down the market leader that's logged over 100 million total miles. All those growth vehicles, you've got AI, leader in AI, you've got data centers, you've got cloud, you've got digital media, the most ascendant streaming platform, and the biggest, and somehow still growing. And then if you want to get into robo-taxis too, you've got a monopoly on the U.S. robo-taxi market. And it's cheaper than the S &P.

1:01:07I always say to people, when you're talking about the upside to a stock, we spend 90 % of our time talking about its potential. You need to spend 50 % of your time talking about it relative to its valuation. And that's where Alphabet is the buy here. Its valuation, it's trading at a lower multiple than the average S &P company.

1:01:26This episode was produced by Claire Miller and engineered by Benjamin Spencer. Our associate producer is Alison Weiss. Mia Saverio is our research lead. Our research associates are Isabella Kinsel and Dan Shallan. Drew Burrows is our technical director, and Catherine Dillon is our executive producer. Thank you for listening to Profity Markets from the Vox Media Podcast Network. Tune in tomorrow for a fresh take on the markets.

1:02:09As the world turns And the dark lies In love

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