Scott Galloway On Money, Happiness, And The Search For Enough

22:10Scott Galloway:And if that sounds partisan, I am a partisan. And, you know, I want to highlight what I think are really important issues that are positive for society with the skills I have. I think I'm, you know, I'm not a humble person. I think I'm remarkably talented, but I want to apply those talents to relevance in promoting a healthy dialogue that results in positive change. And money is still an objective, but it's now secondary. and what, you know, I really enjoy making a lot of money. I enjoy spending it. I also enjoy, and I'm virtue signaling right now, and no one feels this way. I try and overpay everyone at Prop G Media.

22:54Scott Galloway:When I was your age, I was trying to figure out how to pay people the least I could without them leaving because I wanted a great shareholder value that I could then sell and make a lot of money. Now I really enjoy what I, no one, no one ever believes they're overcompensated. But in general, I try to pay people 50 % more than their market, at least for the position. And I'm now very focused on being relevant. I'm very focused on my own mortality and trying to do positive things. My purpose right now, more than anything, that I've identified, and this goes to the question of how do you find purpose, money has freed me up from the anxiety of friction that gets in the way of the most important thing, and that is really deep and loving relationships with friends and family.

23:40Scott Galloway:And then where I found my purpose was people think, okay, am I getting enough out of this relationship or this thing? That's how I approach stuff. Am I getting more than I'm getting or getting more than I'm giving? Otherwise, I'm not going to do it. And then what I realized is that where you find purpose is you wake up one day and say, I've invested so much in this, I'll never get a return on it. But I still find meaning in it, which means you found your purpose. the most loyal Americans and patriotic Americans are those that have invested the most, specifically veterans. And what they realize is that feels gives them a sense of purpose.

24:13My purpose is simple.

24:15Scott Galloway:I woke up one day and realized I am never going to get anything resembling a positive ROI on the investment, emotional, financial, and psychological investment I've made in my sons. They're just never going to be up at 2 a.m. worried about me, I don't think. There's no way they're ever going to spend as much on my senior home, no matter how nice it is that I've spent on them. And it's given me a sense of purpose. I spend a lot of time thinking about how I create loving, patriotic young men. And I sit down with them a lot. I talk to them a lot. It's turned me into a better man. I think I'm better to their mother.

24:47Scott Galloway:I try to model good behavior. And I have found my purpose. And quite frankly, I'm a little freaked out right now because I'm dropping my oldest one off at UVA in a couple of weeks. I'm clinging to my 15-year-old. I'm basically following him around right now because all of a sudden I'm freaked out that he's gone. And I feel like I'm losing a sense of purpose. But the addiction of money and it being my number one objective, it has squarely become number two or number three. It's still on my mind a lot. I think it's a great scorekeeper for operating a healthy company. I think having a profitable company shows your company is adding value on a lot of dimensions.

25:31Scott Galloway:but it has it has changed it used to be my number one objective it's not i have been approached i'm boasting but it's true twice in the last 24 months by enormous hundred billion dollar plus private equity and alternative investment funds for senior roles there where on a risk-adjusted basis i would make a lot more money than i'm making now and i don't want to do that because it doesn't sound like fun to me there's just no way i want to go spend a ton of time uh talking to a textile manufacturer about being taken private and then spend a time in board meetings trying to turn a$3 billion acquisition and pay down the debt and sell it for$7 billion and take my percentage of the carry.

26:11Scott Galloway:I would make more money doing that, I think. I like what we do. I think we're having a positive impact. I think it's fun. I really enjoy doing this podcast with you. The people I work with are lovely. Catherine Dillon and I are not just coworkers. We're friends. I don't know if you've noticed, but the majority of the people who at Prop G are people I've worked with before and are generally like, I think, really pleasant people that are nice to be around. I get huge emotional and psychic reward now, finally, from my professional life. And we make good money, maybe even great money. I could make more money elsewhere, but that's not it.

26:49Scott Galloway:I'm gonna be dead soon. I have enough money. I wanna have a really nice time where I feel like I'm adding value. I have purpose. I enjoy myself. The real litmus test, You were talking about you're having a bad day. When I was your age, on Thursday afternoon, I'd be like, fucking yabba dabba doo. It's Friday tomorrow. I'm going to, I can't wait to hit the bar. My friends, what am I doing this weekend? Where am I having brunch? How hot are the people going to be at brunch? How can I find a cooler place for brunch and hang around with even hotter, more interesting people? And then by Sunday night.

27:20Scott Galloway:You love hot people. And then by Sunday night, by Sunday night, a cloud would come over me and I'm like, oh my God, I got to go back into the salt mines Monday morning. And I would literally get physically depressed Sunday night. I no longer, the biggest victory in my life, and again, this is a blessing. I think that's how most people unfortunately live their lives. The biggest blessing in my life, I do not discern between my weekends and my weekdays. I love my weekends. I love my weekdays. I get up, I looked at my, last night I set up my alarm. I got five hours of podcasting today. I'm doing another pod.

27:56Scott Galloway:And then I'm going to the Carbondale Rodeo to watch these, I don't say these little kid rodeos where they put these scared little four-year-olds on a sheep until they get bucked off. It's hilarious. That is a great day. That is a great day. Does it involve a lot of work? Am I stressed a little bit talking about this stuff, trying to figure out the data on fucking SpaceX and whether it's valued or overvalued? Yeah. Yeah, but I have, that is the biggest blessing of my life. One, people who love me unconditionally, a lack of economic anxiety for the first time the last 10 years that I didn't have the first 50 years of my life.

28:29Scott Galloway:And I do not discern the difference between the weekdays and the weekends. When I was your age, I was working my ass off. And by the way, I don't think you are addicted to money at all. I would argue your approach to trying to be very focused on your professional and your economic success, I would argue for a young man in this society, in a capitalist society, that's just good common sense. as much as people want to talk about, well, money isn't everything, okay, fine. If you want to live in New York and you want to raise a family and potentially give your partner an opportunity to stay at home, if in fact she wants to during certain periods of child rearing, okay, you need to make a million bucks a year.

29:03Scott Galloway:Fine. If you want to move to St. Louis and have a nice life and attend church and only make 80 or 100 grand a year, which still isn't easy in this economy, have at it. But all this bullshit, all these people who say you need to work on yourselves and when you invest too much in your career and your career doesn't work out, there you are alone and depressed. Okay, bitch, is that going to pay for your health insurance? And I say to young people, bust a move to some sort of economic security. I'm not saying you got to go to work for Goldman or you got to kill yourself. Some people live to work as I did, and some people work to live because they want to have more balance in their life.

29:39Scott Galloway:Have at it. But the reality is in a capitalist society, especially as a young man, and I think the advice is the same for young women. I think young women need to be economically secure so they don't have to be economically indentured to some douchebag they don't want to live with. But my advice to young people, yeah, bust a move towards economic security. Find something you're good at, double down on it, work really hard, invest in professional relationships, spend less than you make, save money, and hopefully you get to a point, as I have, where you can focus on your relationships and having a great time and trying to think about, all right, now how do I actually add value and give back and recognize a lot of my success is not my fault and try and create the same opportunities for younger people?

30:26Scott Galloway:But I would argue where you are and the attitude and the approach you take, not addiction at all. For me to continue to be totally focused on money, which I don't think I am, but probably still too much, that's an addiction. What you're suffering from is a healthy dose of common sense. We'll be right back after the break. And if you're enjoying the show so far, send it to a friend and please follow us on YouTube, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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33:57We're back with Prof G Markets. Take us back to when you decided to become a professor, because I do think it's interesting that you made a non-economically motivated decision while you say that you were not in a state of total economic security. Like, you certainly weren't where you are now economically. That's kind of interesting. Like, why did you do that? Did you think that you would just give up on not trying to be, I mean, you said you like the sound of Scott Galloway billionaire. You're not a billionaire, but you're, you're, you've made a lot of money. You certainly several, several millions of dollars.

34:40Um, I mean, what was the rationale? Like when you decided to become a professor?

34:46Scott Galloway:So I'm such a narcissist and I've such a huge ego. When you said several million dollars, That pissed me off because I've made a lot more than that, Ed. Okay. All right. Anyways, we don't need to go there. I'm just trying to be honest about what a fucking narcissist I am and how I still conflate money with character. Yes, agreed. Anyways, the teaching thing was a guy named David Acker changed my life. He's a professor at the Haas School of Business. Went back to business school because I didn't know what I wanted to do. I just knew I didn't want to be an investment banker. And I took his class, and I just thought it was incredible.

35:16Scott Galloway:He taught this class on brand strategy. He talked about the importance of yellow for Caterpillar, about how this color meant reconstruction and hope and capitalism. And Caterpillars enjoyed these irrational margins and what Nike means in terms of you didn't win silver, you lost gold and competitive excellence. And how they could figure out a way to get people to pay$110 for a shoe that cost$7 to manufacture. I just thought, this is what I want to do the rest of my life. And I also, when I was in business school and I got my act together and started doing well, I thought, I think I would really enjoy teaching.

35:47Scott Galloway:And I actually met with some advisors and thought, I'm thinking about getting a PhD and going another three years here and being a professor and or becoming kind of a real professor. And that is PhD tenure track professor. My mom got sick for the second time in my second year in business school. She was diagnosed with cancer. And I just thought, OK, I got to make some money. I got to this is my priority is money. And I'm 27, second year of business school. My mom is sick again. And to be underinsured in a capitalist America and not have money is a... I mean, the moment I became obsessed with money, I can tell you exactly what it is.

36:29Scott Galloway:My mom called me in my second year of business school and said, I'm not feeling well. You need to come home. This is really bad. She just had her second mastectomy. She was discharged from the hospital early because hospitals have an economic incentive to kick you out early. my mom is not a dramatic person i flew home southwest airlines oakland to burbank and i walked into a situation and i'll spare you the details but it was a gruesome uncomfortable situation at that moment like that uh what i'll call the downside of capitalism like punched me in the fucking face and I said, okay, like sleepwalking through life and being,

37:17Scott Galloway:I don't want to call it economically responsible, but not as focused, that part of my life was over. And I became very focused on money. And that was the moment. I mean, that was, and something I think about now is like, Where do my kids find grit to be productive and work hard? But that was, you know, that was a moment for me where I thought, okay, there are certain things that are out of your control, but I can control how hard I'm going to work. and it just really struck me that in America, not having money is humiliating and, you know, inhibits your ability to take care of the people you love.

38:06Scott Galloway:But that, literally, that was the moment. It's like, okay, I'm not going to go get my PhD because I think I'll like teaching. I'm not going to like fuck around and not get good grades I'm not going to smoke pot every night I'm going to like

38:26Scott Galloway:I'm going to get serious because my lack of economic power was not only like potentially going to make me vulnerable but it had put my mom in a vulnerable position but that was the moment I mean, I feel like that's such an important moment because of how unfair it is. Like when you think about the constraints that a lack of money puts people into, and a moment where it's, yeah, as you say, about protecting your mother, and this stupid thing called money put a constraint on the situation where you didn't have much of a choice. Well, let me be clear. Just so I can not sound like a virtue sign too much, I also thought having a lot of money would get me laid more.

39:24Scott Galloway:I need to be honest. So I had motivations on a number of dimensions. But it's also informed my priorities as I get older. I think we, and I give money to politicians who are the same, I think we absolutely need universal healthcare. I don't think any son, any husband should think I might go bankrupt because my wife's been diagnosed with lung cancer. I just think that the amount of economic anxiety and shame felt by 40 % of the U.S. households that have some sort of medical debt, I think that's unforgivable in a society as prosperous as us. And so it's informed what's important to me. You know, one of the things I'm very focused on right now, I'm writing a book on, you know, loosely called Project 28 about economic policies and that I think would help America.

40:12Scott Galloway:And top of the list, I talk about this a lot, is just health care. We have to have some form of single payer universal health care. that would be the S &P could double more accretive to the well-being and and and health mental health and of of Americans would be some sort of single-payer health care you know everyone should post the Canadian system or the the national the NHS in the UK no one's worried they're going to go bankrupt if they're if if if if their their daughter gets MS I mean that's just unforgivable. So that experience not only motivated me around money, it's informed my worldview.

40:54Scott Galloway:Also, as I've gotten older, I've become much more about a progressive tax structure. There's just no reason anyone needs to make more than 10 billion bucks a year. You don't need it. It's not going to make any happier. So why wouldn't you tax that at, call it alternative minimum tax of 40, 50, 60 percent? Because that additional incremental tax revenue, if it provides universal health care or universal pre-K, it's going to create a great deal of happiness for households. Were you politically, just a question, were you politically motivated 20, 30 years ago or is this more new? Oh, it's more new.

41:31Scott Galloway:You know, when I was your age, I didn't really care about much about politics. I mean, I was a Democrat. I remember all of my friends in the fraternity would refer to me as a pussy because I had a Mondale poster in my fraternity window and they all thought Reagan was the biggest stud alive. Yeah. Yeah. So I've always been - I like that with my conservative friends. The libtalk. I've always been - Yeah. Yeah. I've always been a progressive, but it really has, I've become much more politically involved as I've gotten older. A, well, I find it super interesting, but B, I really do think that And all of the things that gave me success are under attack right now.

42:10Assisted lunch, Pell Grants, all my companies were built by immigrants.

42:16Scott Galloway:My mom accessed family planning. I just, all the things that put, you know, state-sponsored education, all the thing at affordable, accessible rate, everything that put me here with you now are under attack. And I just think it would show a lack of, I don't want to be the Lindsey Graham of whatever it as I do, and that is enjoy being an openly gay man while continuing to diminish the rights of other gay people. I find that unforgivable. I don't want to be an ungrateful prick and not advocate for policies and investments that have given me such an incredible life and also push back on many of the policies that are making it harder for people like myself to achieve the American dream.

43:03Scott Galloway:So yeah, it's made me much more politically aware as I've gotten older. When I was your age, I remember, I think it's so sad. I think a lot about young men and mating and relationships. Supposedly a big reason why people won't date each other is they have different political views. For the life of me, I could not gun to head tell you what the political views are of anyone I dated in my 20s. We just didn't talk about that shit. I mean, it just didn't matter. And I'm like, OK, great. Another reason why people aren't dating. But no, I became much more politically cognizant. I don't think I voted until I was 24 or 28.

43:36Scott Galloway:I don't. So, yeah, that that is increased dramatically for me. We'll be right back. And for even more markets content, sign up for our newsletter at ProfGMarkets.com. Thank you.

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46:34that long article you've had open for weeks.

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46:51We're back with Prof G Markets. If you lost your money tomorrow, what would happen to you? I mean, and this kind of gets to the extent to which money becomes part of your identity? Because we were talking about this idea of self-worth, and that's how you kind of figured out which people are valuable. And you were saying this in the sense that you had maybe a problematic relationship with money in this regard. But to what extent do you feel that it is tied into your identity today? And does it ever freak you out?

47:28Scott Galloway:Well, if I lost my money, all my money, the first thing is I'd be tangibly less interesting it's true america people think i'm much more interesting than i am and one of those reasons is because of the podcast and the little bit of fame we have but also when you're wealthy in america people people either think he's a really interesting guy or he's success i just want to know him i mean i've i've gotten more interesting and attractive almost entirely correlated to my net worth. It's just the truth. That is what it is to be a male in America. You're fucking fascinating when you're rich. Maybe you're hated, but you're fascinating.

48:09Scott Galloway:And so the first thing that would happen is I'd get the number of random outreaches and dinner invitations I'd get would be cut by 90%. It would massively attack my self-esteem. And I would be very fearful about, you know, I'm dropping my kid off at UVA. Out-of-state tuition is 62 grand. It's probably going to cost us minimum 100 grand a year. I don't have to worry about that. I get to worry about whether I'm going to the UVA versus Cal game with my friends and whether he'll be embarrassed to have me there or not. You know, I can worry about all the dumb shit because I'm not freaking out about how I'm going to pay for my kid's education.

48:49Scott Galloway:If I didn't have those abilities, I think I could still make money. I'm still reasonably talented, reasonably hardworking. It would enormously attack my self-esteem and anxiety because it takes me back to when my oldest was born 18 years ago. It was right after the great financial recession. I had lost everything again. And when my kids came marching out of my girlfriend, I didn't feel bright lights and angels singing and like a life insurance commercial and automatically left. I'm like, fuck, I am so anxious and so pissed off at myself and so ashamed because I was making all this money and I was too stupid to diversify, totally egomaniacal, convinced by my VCs to go all in over and over, and great financial recession hits, and I am broke.

49:44Scott Galloway:And now I've not only failed myself, I have failed my kid. And that paternal shame was like nothing I'd ever felt before. So the idea of feeling that again, where if I'd lost money, I would be bummed out because I wouldn't get to do the things I love to do. I don't think I'd be as interesting or as attractive to other people. But the shit that would really fuck with me would be a sense that I had failed my family and that I wasn't living up to my obligation to a protector. That's what would really, like, I mean, I was just thinking as you asked that, I thought, would I rather be diagnosed with cancer or go broke?

50:26Scott Galloway:And people say health is everything. I get it. But I have to think about it for a second because I'm a very analytical person. The majority of people diagnosed with cancer survive it and die from something else, depending on the type of cancer. If I had, if all of a sudden I went to zero at my age, I'm not sure I can make it back again I know I don't want the stress of having to try and make it back again the feeling of shame a lot of it would be self imposed that I wasn't a good protector or provider for my family would be just god at this age it would just be I mean I I think I would choose the broke over the cancer but it's not an easy choice for me right now I mean that's I know how pathetic that sounds I don't think it sounds pathetic maybe other people would too I don't think so.

51:15Scott Galloway:But I'm like, with the money I have, I think I can probably solve most cancers or at least address them, depending on the type of cancer. It's just as soon as you said that, I thought, OK, would you rather have cancer or be broke? And I had to think about it. So anyways, I don't. You saying that question triggers me because I diversify so much because, Ed, you know, I'm not going back. you know it's like it's like that final scene in um god a great movie the michael mann movie with uh al pacino uh robert de niro heat jesus christ all of you have to go watch heat anyways the end scene of heat robert de niro and al pacino having this conversation al pacino's a cop robert de niro's a criminal and robert de niro's like talking about president he's like i'm not going back.

52:10Scott Galloway:He's like, I'd rather die. He's like, I'll die in a gunfight with cops, but I'm not going back. I don't want to be that dramatic, but I have real fears at this age around going back. I tell people I've been rich three times. It's because I've gone broke twice and I'm not going back again. I really don't want to go back again because I don't feel like I have the constitution, the work ethic, and the forgiveness in myself to get back up and try it again and claw back again. And I coach a lot of my friends around money and we're very open with each other. And my fondest thing is like, dude, what are you doing?

52:54Scott Galloway:You're taking too much risk. I'm like, we can't, we're too old to make it back again. You got to diversify. You're too concentrated in this asset. What are you thinking? But yeah, that is a triggering question for me. At your age, you could go to zero right now. You'd be fine. You're super talented. You're on the upslope. CNBC or MSNBC or MSNOW or whatever would say, hey, do you want to substitute for Katie Tour? And they'd pay you a lot of money. Or you could go to work. You're fine. At my age, going to zero is an entirely different scenario. Do you have fears around going broke right now? No, I think to your point, I mean, I really wouldn't like it, but I think I would take it upon myself to figure it out.

53:46And I trust myself that I can do it at this point. um but i also don't want to get too confident about that or too cocky about it that and think that oh i can figure it out no matter what i mean who knows but no i i i think ultimately yeah this goes to your point i feel that i have i'm young i have time i can weather ups and downs and i can probably figure it out over the long term but i would i prefer to make it easy for myself. That would be ideal. Just as we wrap up here, what advice would you give to someone who is struggling right now economically, who feels like they're in the place that you were when you say, I'm not going back, and who wants to get to where you are?

54:43Scott Galloway:Well, the first is if you wake up, as I did, at whatever it was, 34 after thinking you were rich, and then again at 44 after again thinking you were rich, and you're broke because you weren't diversified or the market went the wrong way on you, whatever. Partially your fault, partially out of your control. The first thing is forgive yourself. recognize that a lot of your success on the way up wasn't your fault, but a lot of the things that hurt you economically and professionally aren't your fault either. And my core competence is storytelling, but my superpowers have been one, ability to attract and retain good people, but also to forgive myself.

55:30Scott Galloway:I have a lot of friends who knew nothing but success, great business school, out of the gates, worked for a hedge fund or McKinsey or Goldman made a shit ton of money. And then the market turns against them for whatever reason, they lose a bunch of money and they have to close their hedge fund or they get laid off from Goldman or whatever it is, or they thought that they'd start their own consulting practice and it doesn't get off as quickly. And they can't forgive themselves. They get stuck. They feel aggrieved. They have a loss of confidence. They're angry at the world. I've been shot in the fucking face and I mourn for a little bit.

56:04Scott Galloway:And then I get up and I try and raise more money and I move on. That's been my superpower. I'm really good at getting up and trying again. I don't want to do it again. But what I would say is if you get shot in the face economically and things haven't worked out, you have to recognize a lot of that's not your fault and do whatever it is you need to do.

56:28Being around the right people, forgiving yourself.

56:32Scott Galloway:but every day get up, get exercise, get sunlight, good nutrition, and build a list of things you're going to do that day to start making baby steps to get back in the game. Because America forgives people. You still have, I believe, more agency in America than any nation in the world. And recognize that, okay, yeah, I got shot in the face. It's upsetting. Next, what am I going to do tomorrow to build again? And forgive yourself. Because the thing you're going to regret in your life is not what happened to you. You're going to regret how hard on yourself you were. But I don't think there's any algorithm or secret silver bullet for this is how you build back.

57:13Scott Galloway:You build back by building. You get up, you try again, you reach out to people, you ask for help, you work hard. But the thing that takes so many successful people off track is they have their first defeat and they can't get up. They're literally frozen. I mean, and this isn't, these are smart, talented people. And they're like still talking about how their hedge fund closed eight years ago and they haven't been able to raise money and they aren't trying as hard and they're depressed. And it's just like, okay, get on with it. Get on with it. You know, go to work for a bigger fund or whatever it is, or try something else.

57:53Scott Galloway:You're a talented guy. You've been blessed with incredible, and I'm saying this because most of my friends are guys, you have incredible education. Maybe you aren't going to be a master of the universe. You don't need a fucking townhouse in Tribeca. You're going to be fine with a nice place in Montclair, New Jersey, or maybe even, God forbid, move to Florida where the cost of living is much lower. You're going to be fine. You're going to be happy. Do you have a good partner? You're talented. You can make a good living. So anyways, long story short, forgive yourself. When things are going really well, recognize a lot of that isn't your fault and you need to be humble and you need to diversify because eventually the winds will turn against you.

58:31Scott Galloway:And when things aren't going your way and you're fired, you lose a shit ton of money, your business fails, you have love that's not, affection that's not reciprocated from someone else, recognize at the end of your life, You're not going to be upset about what happened. You're going to be upset about how upset you were. And just next day, make a list of what's required to move forward and every day make progress against that list. And don't feel any shame. Keep in mind, oh, I've had tons of businesses fail. And it's like, okay, people read in the paper that Brandfarm, my e-commerce incubator backed by Goldman Sachs and Howard Schultz and was on the cover of Inc.

59:11Scott Galloway:Magazine. It went out of business. Oh, how fucking embarrassing. How am I going to recover? No one cares. No one cares about your failure, which means if you have a good idea, they're willing to invest in you and they're willing to come to work for you again. That's the wonderful thing about America. No one is thinking about your failure or your success or your shit as much as you are. So why wouldn't you just get up and try again? And there's another relationship. There's another investment. There's another business waiting to be approached or started. And if you've done it once, you can do it again.

59:47Scott Galloway:And just get on it. Forgive yourself. Learn to mourn and move on. Get up, get back to the plate, and swing harder. This episode was produced by Claire Miller and Allison Weiss and engineered by Benjamin Spencer. Our video editor is Jorge Carty. Our research team is Dan Chalon, Chris Nodonohue, and Mia Silverio. Sheik McPherson is our social producer. Drew Burrows is our technical director. And Catherine Dillon is our executive producer. Thank you for listening to Prof G Markets and Prof G Media. If you like what you heard, give us a follow. Tune in tomorrow for a fresh take on the markets.

1:00:38In kind reunion As the world turns And the dark flies In love, love, love, love

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