The terms deflection and containment should be banned - Interviews from Cisco's WebexOne

27:24And I thought about that and I was like, well, that feels like, you know, NIST together with your sort of collaboration vision, I think which you talked about, was talked about on the main stage, which is talking about people and people, people and AI and AI and AI and that's part of the broader sort of thing. And so I may have answered the question for you, but I will ask, anyway, tell me about the kind of the AI QM and what it's going to allow organizations and also supervisors and team leaders to do and how agents are going to experience this too. Yeah, one of the common problems we've seen is that brands and organizations want to make sure that all interactions between, whether it's a human agent or AI agent, with their end consumer is at high quality, that it's meeting the performance standards that they're looking for.

28:12And so what we're bringing with our AI quality management feature set is the ability to look at 100 % of all interactions and whether they're AI agent based or human based and ensure that you can drive the right level of quality and performance on all those interactions. And so we have automated scoring, additional dashboards and insights, as well as evaluation that's going to be available. One of the unique things that we did here was knowing that AI agents has become more common now. How do we bring all the good AI quality management capabilities to both AI agents and human agents at the same time?

28:52And so, again, this is a very ground-up approach to quality management that we're bringing here and that we're announcing to be released. And can I ask is that also that because you also talk about being an open platform and having interoperability, because you talked about announcing kind of partnerships with Microsoft and Zoom and a host of other kind of people. Does that mean also that if people had other, say, point solutions or other agents or something, they could actually pull that via, say, like an API into your kind of system and so you can see it as like a holistic picture? Yeah, absolutely.

29:30We, again, we definitely want to drive an open platform and give customers, you know, meet customers where they are. Sure. Give them choice. So if they want to use a different virtual agent or AI agent and use that within our platform, we want to make sure that all the great capabilities we have with AI quality management can also apply to that as well. We're already doing this right now with our AI assistant feature, as I spoke about earlier, where if you have a virtual agent or AI agent that needs to transfer to a human agent, that comes with a summarization of the context of the conversation.

30:03That's enabled for not only our own AI agent, but if you bring your own third-party virtual agent, we can also enable that as well. And so we really are trying to make sure that regardless of wherever you plug in a third-party solution, you can still use all of our features, whether or not you'd use a first-party or third-party solution. Oh, okay. Yeah, awesome. And then the one thing I wanted to ask about, the next thing I wanted to ask about, is it's a bit like, it feels like, almost like the dirty secret of the contact center space, whereas there are still a lot of people that have on-premise contact center solutions.

30:48And there's still a lot of people, a lot more than many people acknowledge, want to have on-premise content-centred solutions. And I think there's also this view that if you want to access the capabilities and the potential of artificial intelligence, then you have to be in the cloud. But actually, you said, well, we're still and we're stoniously still producing and supporting kind of on-prem solutions, but you're also doing it with adding this new AI capability and potential. And I was a bit like, OK, tell me how that works. Because I think that's a cool thing, because a lot of people go, oh, you have to be in the cloud to get the AI sort of thing.

31:36It can't work when it's not plugged in to some of the big cloud providers. And so, yes, I just wanted to ask you to speak to that and tell me how that works. Are you sending around CDs and people having to get a lot? So one thing that's very critical for us is keeping customers at the... We're very customer-centric, right? Keeping customers in mind. And so in the whole on-prem to cloud conversation, what we heard from our customers, a lot of them either weren't ready to move to cloud or will never move to the cloud, right? Lots of different reasons. I think certain customers want more control over where their data sits.

32:18Others, as you've seen, other geopolitical changes happen. They're saying, okay, well, maybe we need to rethink our cloud strategy. And so there's a lot of, I think, different reasons why. Regardless of the reason, we want to make sure that we support and invest on our on-prem solutions and also make sure that they don't miss out on all the great innovation that's happening. So we were very intentional in how we were designing and building out our AI features to easily take those that are being deployed and launched on our cloud solutions and being able to easily have them deployed on our on-prem solutions.

32:52This is why the Release 15 for Contact Center Enterprise was so critical because it allowed the ability. That's the on-prem. product and the release 15, which rolled out earlier this year, had the capabilities to now bring in all those good AI capabilities. And so we actually do already have AI agents and AI assistants that will be going into early access and trials here soon for our on-prem customers. And does that work? So you've built the artificial intelligence capability into that sort of release, but but then that will just be trained on their data that sits on on-prem? Or how does that...?

33:34So, by default, we actually do not train any of our models with the customer data unless we get explicit permissions to do so. So, just to start there. Yeah, so we definitely don't want to train our data if our customers don't want us to, and we will not do that, right? So that's the first premise. Now, customers do want, some customers do want their models to get trained because they have better context and situations. So if we get the explicit permission, then we will do so as well. And the same goes for our on-prem deployments in that approach. Okay. And how does that get kind of updated? Is that just like it's kind of updated on a quarterly or six-monthly kind of basis?

34:16Because if you're in the cloud, it's like a dynamic sort of thing. So how is the update schedule like for if you're on-prem? Absolutely. With the release 15, Now we're going to move to a more ongoing cadence of updates that will be able to be rolled out very easily to our on-prem customers as well. And so, yes, it's a little bit different than cloud. But at the same time, we want to make sure to make it very easy for our on-prem customers to still get all these features without waiting for these huge two-year type of situations as well. Yeah. No, I just thought it was interesting because I just wanted to sort of dig into it because it's actually, it's almost dispelling this myth.

34:57that if you want the AI and all the big capabilities that come from that, then you have to be in the cloud. And you're saying, actually, no, you can have it and still be on-prem. And it might be that, because I know you've also announced that you've got through expanding your footprint and things, you're in like 190 different countries. If you're working with some of the biggest brands across the world, then I'm pretty sure that some of those deployments are going to be hybrid. Some of it's going to be on-prem. if some of it's going to be in the cloud, depending on the nature of, as you say, the data security or legislation, sort of like part of it.

35:33So having that flexibility to attend to those different needs is, you know, hugely important. And the one thing you didn't talk about, which is something that's really interesting to me is, and I know that Cisco is a big player in this, is how everything integrates with your unified communications, sort of like the stack. Because I know that as self-service capabilities mature, and say that it's going to help reduce volumes of simple queries coming into the contact center, then the likelihood that the questions are going to be asked of your human agents, and oftentimes as things progress, your AI agents are going to become increasingly complex, complicated, and may require access to people, systems, knowledge, expertise that may not just sit in the front office, but will sit in the middle office and the back office.

36:32And so the integration with a sort of UC platform and that sort of cooperation collaboration that's going to be required is going to become increasingly important. I mean, what are your plans in that sort of space in terms of the closer sort of integration, kind of like in facilitation of that collaboration to solve those more nutty problems or sort of next thing? No, we have lots of plans coming. I mean, already we're going to try to bring a unified reporting view. So those that are using, let's say, WebEx calling, the UCaaS provider and our CCaaS platform, they'll actually be able to see the full journey of a customer interaction from when the call comes in.

37:14And if it gets transferred, let's say, to a human agent within the contact center, still having the full view of that. And so we're already working on providing some of those benefits today. And we're working through a much more longer roadmap of a bunch of benefits that we didn't want to bring to those customers that are using both the UCaaS and CCaaS provider together and providing those values. Things such as better management of flow and orchestration. As I mentioned, there's reporting and then underpinning data and analytics that comes with all that. and also how do we deploy agents and AI agents in all sorts of situations as well.

37:52And so a lot more to come there, but we are definitely actively working on solving some of those meatier problems that are in between the UCaaS and the CCaaS and making sure we provide a holistic solution to those customers as well. Perfect. Thank you. I mean, yeah, because it's just something that when I do a lot of writing and researching and scratching of my chin about where things are going to go, I'm like, surely that's going to become more important. And therefore, these things, knotting them together, and then how you can more effectively orchestrate that and use different sort of technologies to understand problem identification and then mapping it to the right sort of personnel and the right parts of the organization and see even if they're available and fusing those things together is going to become increasingly kind of important.

38:39So it's great to hear that you're kind of like, there's lots more to come on that, But Chang, we've talked about technology to death, I think. Tell me about some brands or some, not you don't need to specify the brands, but give me a couple of examples of companies that are, what sort of journey they've gone on? What sort of challenges have you been facing? What have you done to help them? And what sort of outcomes are they're achieving just to bring all this capability to life? One of the stories that comes to mind is using our WebEx AI agent. We had a customer that was providing support 9 to 5 with human agents.

39:18Now with AI agents, they've been actually able to scale human support to provide 24-7. Think about this as an end consumer. Instead of being confounded to a normal business day 9 to 5, now you can reach out to a brand at any time. And so we're just seeing so much being unlocked now in terms of companies doing more, not reducing the human workforce, actually doing more with it with AI agents. And we're already seeing it today with several customers. And so very excited to hear those stories. I think it's going to be so much more of these to come as well. I think the other thing I kind of saw was like, which is sometimes a little bit counterintuitive, where I think it was Vinod that told a story on the stage where he talked about, oh, we've had one of those kind of brands that have actually adopted much of this new AI power technology and their average handling time has gone up.

40:10and everyone's like what? and then he says however their first call resolution rate has gone up too because they've been able to do more work in the call and actually driving better outcomes and that's the sort of thing is like you can't chase the metrics you have to kind of chase or you change the metrics that you're solving for and there's new metrics now that are going to bring the full ROI picture together than maybe traditionally looked at. Perfect. Chang thank you so much. Thank you so much It's been a pleasure. Pleasure. Absolutely. Again, what another great interview. I hope that you agree.

40:44Now, let's get into my third and final interview in this podcast. This time it is with a WebEx customer. And in this interview, I speak with Patrick Cornish, Senior Network Engineer at BankFirst. So welcome to the, well, where is the last part of the series of podcast interviews I'm doing at Cisco WebEx One. I'm delighted to say, well, I'm not that delighted because it's quite early in the morning on the second day. But no, hey, that's fine. It's what you do for the art. But anyway, I'm here with Patrick Cornish, who is a senior network engineer at BankFirst. We had a chat yesterday, but I'm delighted that you agreed to come back and have a chat with me in the podcast.

41:24Patrick, welcome. How are you doing? Can you tell us a little bit about yourselves? Yes. Thank you for having me, first and foremost. It is quite early, but it's still an honor to be here. So at Bank First, I specialize in collaboration and architecture across multiple systems in our environment. I kind of lead the charge of our CX and what we're doing with AI, especially in this endeavor with WebEx Contact Center, and it's been quite the journey. Awesome. Now, you've been here for yesterday, and we're on day two. There's going to be a whole bunch of other things going on, but yesterday was a massive amount of announcements, and you've been speaking, but we'll get to that a bit later.

41:59but just want to get capture from you. What have been your highlights from the event so far? Oh, goodness. It is truly a phenomenal event. I really look forward to WebEx One every year. It's kind of funny. I had, like I said, the speaking games from different things, so I was kind of enamored by that and kind of focused on that, but then I really enjoyed the keynote. There's so many takeaways. It was so much to unpack there. I can't wait for the recording to watch it back again to kind of just dive into that. I mean, from the note taker, the scheduler, There's so many new features coming to meetings that we're really excited about.

42:31As a Cisco shop, we use those through and through. So we're really looking forward to extending some of those capabilities throughout our entire ecosystem. And then on the contact center side, really giving that granular detail in the future of the sentiment, the CSAT, and new KPIs to measure. And this is going to be readily accessible in that single plane of glass for the supervisor desktop as well as the agent desktop so we can get real-time views and statistics. Yeah. I mean, you mentioned the notetaker. I have a thing that I know we were at lunch and you were there yesterday. And I thought the note taker was kind of interesting because it's something I've been thinking about for like for ages.

43:07I was thinking about that idea is like, you know, we have all this virtual sort of stuff and people are talking to each other and they can do the summarization, particularly if you're computer to computer, as it were. But I'm like, I'm thinking about, well, what about all those people that are still out doing, heaven forbid, face to face meetings? How the hell do they could leverage that technology? And when they announced the note check, I'm like going, dude, that's going to be great for people that are out on the road, in the field, talking to people that are not in office environments, maybe B2B sales, all that type of stuff.

43:35You can capture that sort of stuff, just going to put it on there. Let's have a chat. And then it gets uploaded, summarized, and can get action. So I thought that was a really exciting kind of thing. And also, when you were talking, you were talking about bank first, and you've got all these regional managers that are going out to speak to people, kind of are on the road. It's going to be super useful for them as well. Oh, extremely. Because what Cisco really does well, especially with the WebEx suite all together, what we've had to do in the past is actually to schedule the meeting, you know, like a WebEx meeting, and then use the AI features to actually get the transcription as well as the recording.

44:09But now with the note taker, it could be as simple as the in-person conversation. We just set it on the table, we fire it off. But the nice part about it, there's other systems and things that can do it, but I think what's really going to be a game changer for us, that's all integrated. So that same note taker information can be passed through messaging, it can be passed through chat, And we still have that one platform where we can consolidate all that information. It's going to be really huge for how we do day-to-day operations. Absolutely. So getting back on track, it's always nice to hear from customers.

44:36And I think that for me, it's my first time at WebEx One. And what's been really interesting is to see how there were customer quotes and stories that were very much front and center. You were a poster boy of the games, let's say, in inverted commas. because you were up on this big poster. And so it's always great to hear from customers. But also it shows that Cisco are also very proud of the fact that they are, according to Gartner's latest kind of CCATS report, they are one of two vendors in the space that are a customer's choice. So it's great to speak to a customer. So I wanted to ask you to tell me a little bit more about your journey kind of with Cisco today and also what you're trying to do and how you're trying to do it, where you're at, how does the old AI thing weave into all this?

45:32I know it's a big ask, but give me a brief description of where you're at. Right. If we could summarize it, to start to your original point, I think with most customers, we start to look at the Magic Quadrant and we look across after Gardner and Cisco's always right there. And especially to the customer of choice, I've actually had the privilege to speak to Bino's in the past in some different roadshows and things they've done around CX. And he really mentioned where it is customer first and it's just not selling the product it's building a relationship and i truly feel like they do that with the customer and and i think we're living testament of that um the journey started for us actually on a premise older version of cisco finesse okay that uh we found out that uh while it was super great it was it was there it did all the things it was tried and true uh when we for where the industry is going now and the things we're needing to scale and the features we wanted to use um it didn't fully meet those needs at that time um later on I see if they've actually invested some more into 15.0 that actually can do some of those things.

46:26But WebEx Contact Center as a CCAS platform has just a amount of so many robust features. We ran into some snacks, like nothing's perfect, right? You have some ups and downs throughout the implementation, but we've worked through them pretty smoothly. Of course, the whole AI train comes with its own set of hurdles as well, right? Adoption, compliance, different things of that nature. Basic organization. Oh, absolutely right. So, you know, it's but, you know, Cisco did a really good job of the Trust Portal, working on compliance pieces and really, you know, being open, honest and candid about, you know, how, you know, secure rest and secure transit.

47:04Make sure we have that encryption and make sure we have that security, make sure an attenity is private and it's still all readily accessible for us. Yeah. So once we kind of got where we needed to be there, that was really huge for us to continue to move forward. And then as far as our approach, we kind of took that crawl, walk, run. You know, we don't want to boil the ocean per se. So it's kind of finding small use cases in pockets, use the topic analytics actually that kind of really breaks down our data in ways we've never seen before. So we know how long debit card replacements actually take now.

47:34We know when we're having issues with online banking, how long those actually take now. And then those can be tasks that can be broken down and queryable. And then we can actually teach AI agents as well as teach knowledge to our human agents. So then we can be more informed to decrease those, right? Because we want a better handle time. We want to hire CSAT. We want to measure those KPIs. We want them to be really, really, really good. Because right at the end of the day, those numbers correlate to the bottom line. Are you taking those insights and piping them back into other parts of the business?

48:03Because I feel that the trick that people often miss is they get all this analytical capability to generate all these insights. And they're like, oh, fine. We'll do all these things to help make it easy to solve those problems. but why don't you just make the problem go away? Right. That's always the answer first, right? And in an event that you can, right? As much as you can. As much as you can, right? And if not, how to circumvent it. But to your point, you know, for us, and I hope us customers alike, you don't want to just do feature for feature's sake or just overbuild, right? Just get what you need, find your use cases.

48:37And as you see it, it really starts to take care of itself, especially as you create your processes. And then, you know, you'll end up with a really good solution where you want to be. And is your focus with the whole AI thing? Because I know Bank First is a financial services institution, right? And so there is all sorts of risk and regulation and compliance factors that come into that in terms of how you use AI. And also, am I right in assuming that you probably started more from an internal focus first rather than going to the external because of that sort of landscape? Is that right? Oh, exactly.

49:13Right. Especially in financial services, probably I think healthcare, I've talked to a lot of different customers in the same boat, right? It's always better to start internal. This is exactly what we did. We had an AI agent that ran internal as a help desk agent per se, and it had no actions. It was only querying knowledge, which is with the retrievable augmented generation of what we fed it to. We don't need universal bankers or presidents or people in our loan department trying to troubleshoot their PC, and we don't need you waiting at home for extended amounts of time. Those are the low-hanging fruit, per se, that we kind of started to find some small ROI on just giving time back to the employee so they're not spending it, waiting on IT to resolve some issues.

49:55They're really starting to kind of build some of our use cases for the future as we hopefully prepare in 26 to go fully customer-facing and then see where we can go from there. And the customer-facing side of things, would that be more of a conversational sort of interface to try and help people self-serve on the front end? Or what's the plans for that? Yeah, so it will start as more of a conversational mix of a couple flavors. We have like a scripted and autonomous versions of that, of Cisco's offering on the AI agent side. I don't want to give too much away. I've got a lot of great insights this week.

50:29But Cisco is doing some really amazing stuff with the AI agent and the capabilities with what's coming to where it's going to be really exciting. I mean, I imagine, so let me kind of speak for you. Based on what I've seen, I imagine it's probably going to be multimodal in its capability. Is that fair? That is fair. Let's leave it at that, shall we? I agree. Perfect. Right. So, but I also know, well, you were saying that you are, be one of the speakers here at the event. And I know that your event yesterday, which sadly, because I got booked into something else, I couldn't kind of like make, oh, I'm looking at Caroline, who's kind of sitting in on this kind of podcast.

51:17I wish I hadn't missed her because Patrick, you told me that they were standing room only at the event and at your session. And so I wanted to ask you, tell me about what you're talking about, what you did and what you showed on the day. Because that's based on your learnings from your journey, right? Absolutely. It kind of wrapped it all in of kind of what we've been discussing the last couple of days. But you're getting people to look under the hood. Yeah, absolutely. Right. So it's like, you know, it's not all glist and glam. And there's some things in there, but we were doing some really good things.

51:47And during the demo, I kind of showed with Topic Analytics, we briefly mentioned that one of the things in a prior month, debit card placement took an extended amount of time. So we kind of glanced into our crystal ball to kind of show. This is an example, right? It's financial based, but you could plug and play, put your situation in. This is where you can become more creative with your architects and your partners. And what it did was you needed your debit card placed. So the first version of authentication, the AI agent did that for you. A more complex task, we probably don't want that actually replaced by that AI agent for us at this very time.

52:21So let's transfer it to the human. But the human already knows that that customer has been authenticated by the AI agent. So now the AI agent can already greet the customer, know you're taken care of. At the same time, the AI assistant triggers a... So basically, you just don't have an AI agent in front. You have an agent that can be in front of you throughout the entire conversation with the customer. So then that agent almost theoretically sits with you on the side. And when the customer asks, hey, I would like to confirm my last transaction before we replace the debt card. I just want to make sure nothing, fraud, anything never happened.

52:52At that time, the agents automatically fed that information from the AI agent on the side, and it tells them it was at Best Buy in the amount of$860-something. It was like, oh, we didn't have to search. We didn't have to query. That agent was already going to our database for that verified customer and provide that to the customer from AI agent to human agent. And then once it was verified, the debit card placement already starts by the AI assistant. But then this is where the human loop comes in. We just don't want to trigger it. We don't send a debit card to the wrong place. Let's verify it.

53:24So there's a card on the side that actually has that full address, phone number, everything. The customer verifies it with a human agent. Then all the human agent has to hit send. And we actually pop the phone. You can see it actually hit the SMS through WebEx Connect, which is a Cisco in the portfolio as well, and actually triggers that SMS on the front end to send over here. And on the back end, it actually finishes the debit card replacement. So this is something that took literally almost 10 minutes for us, like 9 minutes and 45 seconds. We've done that in a little under three minutes, about two minutes and 55 seconds from end to end.

53:54And then it's kind of talking about how it is assisting, but then the other part of taking away the low hanging fruit per se, you're going to leave your human agents with more complex tasks and things like that. And that's where agent wellbeing comes into play. And then we demoed the wellness break. So we kind of had, we all had a nice spa moment, you know, at the end there and we kind of brought it full of circles. Nice. I mean, I think that's the, and I know that we talked about that a little bit yesterday at the lunch, the agent wellness. And I think it's a, if you think about the contact center industry, the level of attrition on average across the industry is quite high.

54:33I mean, sometimes it's astronomical for many companies. But I think it's sometimes on average, it's about 50, 40, 50%.

54:44and and that's for multiple kind of reasons but there's also there's other thing around if you think about the the the daily experience of of a customer service kind of rep that oftentimes the simple things that they were doing can be the things that they have a break on because they have a hard call and they're like oh i'm going to take a simple one so i'm going to need to do the address change because then i can i don't have to be kind of on it all the time and i think the thing what's interesting is that because with the as this technology matures and as more simple service crews get automated and then agents gonna have to do more complex complicated urgent sort of things the demands on them it's just gonna it's gonna go up and it's gonna go to keep up surely going I'm speak to you and speak to you and speak to you and it's everything is super intense You know, that's possibly a recipe for rapid burnout if you don't attend to it.

55:43And so I think the thing about the wellness thing is a really thing. I mean, how does that work? What are the signals that it looks for? That's a great question. It's actually triggered off the sentiment from the AI on the back end of the call, right? So if it's a positive pitch in the voice or positive things are said, it picks up on the detection of so many of those from the customer as well as that agent, right? So it can kind of, it does actually a really good job. And we've seen where, you know, someone gets frustrated, a couple calls, a tone, the morale is not as high, you know, and it's okay, like, hey, here we go.

56:16And it actually triggers it. And it triggers it successfully at a really high rate, really, really well, right? So it's very useful and it's very powerful. And it's, you know, something really, well, they all enjoy it, but most of them really, really like it. And sometimes even if they think it's a little cliche or like, oh, it's kind of cool, it took you out enough to get you to smile, to not focus on, you know, just the mundane things, the hard things of the day. And you just got a break for that. Because sometimes that 30 seconds, that one minute, you know, could save you from, you know, a lifetime of, you know, you know, there's reasons that you kind of like, I wish I didn't do that.

56:50So then it just gives you that opportunity to reset and then jump back out there and then you're ready to go. It's that kind of pattern break, right? Absolutely. And so is it my understanding correct that actually the feedback from your agents inside Bike First is being broadly positive? It's being extremely positive. So not just from the agent side, but the supervisor as well too. Okay. So we have a dashboard we kind of custom made through Analyzer and it allows us to see, you know, if Jim has probably had like six wellness breaks today, Jim's having, you know, a not so good day. A not so good day.

57:22Yeah, let's kind of check on him. Like maybe he needs an extended break. Maybe we need to put him on SMS or email for the day. Maybe the phone calls are a bit much or vice versa, right? So it also gives the super vibe because if not before these tools, right, we had no way to know Jim had a bad day until a customer complained. And now we have a complaint about Jim, but it boiled over for him for like four or five hours on his shift. So now we can kind of detect those things earlier on, right? To not only make sure his wellbeing is good, right, but we also have happy, satisfied customers. Nice, nice.

57:51So Patrick, I just want to kind of like say you're, How long has this journey been going for you right now? So it's interesting. We've had a prior endeavor before we did WebEx Contact Center with a different solution. We don't need the name. We kind of cut our teeth there. We did a POC for WebEx Contact Center actually around last May. It turned into our production instance. And then from there, we've been in full production since then. So I would say the entire roadmap, like two plus years for Bank First with Cisco and WebEx Contact Center, about a year and a half, almost 18 months now, I would say.

58:28So you're pretty into it, sort of thing. The paint's dry on the first coat, right? Right, right. So what advice, given your experience over the last 18 months, two years, and given that we hear all sorts of reports about how people have not been able to get beyond the proofs concept stage not being able to scale things not be able to deliver some demonstrable roi all these different things so given all of that and your experience today what are some of the biggest lessons that that you've learned or actually what the what would be the best advice that you would give to somebody say that say you're to yourself 18 months ago what would you say do this do this avoid this avoid that that type of stuff absolutely um don't do features just for features sake Find things is really tangible to the way you do operations every day and if you're not sure actually Cisco and others have them too but there's very good business consultants out there that can help understand your environment they'll kind of curate that experience for what you need for what you define your customer experience as and then once you've kind of get there you don't got to do it all at once like say I would say before you don't have to boil the ocean you know it's kind of like I used a baseball and actually talked to a customer yesterday just look for singles you can hit singles and singles and singles and you know you don't need that home run and before you know it you put enough runs on the board there you go you know so it's kind of just really take that approach because that's what we've done and we've seen a lot of success it's very interesting because you know get to talk to a lot of other customers this week and over the last couple months and things uh people like wow look how far you have came and to us is like when you do look back we have came a long way but we we've we've uh sometimes even been very slow and i've been critical but which for good reason though but we've took our time instead for each one of them but but those pillars do stack up and when they come all together it is a very enjoyable experience awesome um patrick as i think we've kind of covered a lot anything else you'd like to to add no it's been a pleasure well thank you very much sir i just want to say congratulations on your session your success to date it's been lovely to meet you thank you for spending time and sharing your insight and the experience with us here today.

1:00:40It's been awesome. Thank you. Well, that's another set of interviews in the bag. Big thanks to Vinod, Chang and Patrick for spending time and sharing their insights with me at the RubX1 event. I hope you enjoyed it. I know I did. Before we go, there's a couple of things I'd like to mention. First of all, please consider heading over to iTunes or Spotify and do leave a review. It all helps. Secondly, if you have any comments about any of the interviews I do or have any suggestions for topics that you'd like me to explore of people that I should interview, then feel free to send me an email to hello at punkcx.co.uk.

1:01:17One final thing. Do head over to adrienswinsco.com if you want to find out more about me and how I work with clients in this space. Anyway, that's all for now. Thank you for listening and do tune in again soon. All the very best.

1:01:38Thank you.