Transforming experience for business outcomes - Interview with Sid Banerjee, Mike Murchison and Paloma Paraja

24:25Yeah, we have. And I thought it was because you mentioned this sort of insight into action and that seems to be the thing. But I want you to ask you to tell me a little bit more about the partnership, but particularly from the perspective of in your breakout session that you did with Courtney. Shout out to Courtney, by the way. You said. We're not intelligence constrained, but we're context constrained. And you know what? we're probably only a few weeks into 2026 and context seems to be the word of the year and it's just spreading across the world it's contextual intelligence and how that applies to you know personalization operational decisions and so on and so forth and so i just wanted to start with that and say help me understand what you mean by that well i mean a few things when i say that we're no longer intelligence constrained we're context constrained but the first thing i I mean, is that I think most of the world is still waking up to the fact that PhD level intelligence is a single API call away.

25:28It's no longer three degrees of separation or your second cousin or your friend. You pick up the phone who's whip smart that you get to weigh in on your most complicated issue. It's literally available in your pocket at any point you want. And I think that's a very, I mean, it's an understatement to say that that's profound. You know, most of, I think a lot about how like most of corporate history, call it 250 years of organizational development, has been predicated upon a assumption that intelligence is a scarce resource. we organize ourselves we we we build we create and and we we do that around an assumption yeah that they're we are the humans are the only sources of intelligence and that's no longer true so that's i think point number one is that we need to wake up to the fact that intelligence is here and it's no longer only just human.

26:34The second point is that in order to take advantage of that intelligence, it needs more than just to show up in the room. It needs more information, it needs context about what it needs to do. This is something that perhaps is easier to understand. We all know that if you show up on day one at a job, no matter how smart you are, unless you're equipped with clear goals, a set of tools that the company uses, information about what's happened in the past, it's going to be challenging for you to succeed. So that's a long way of saying that the quality of experience ahead is much more a function of how much information your intelligence has access to, how much capability it has access to, and much less a function of how smart the system or person is who's engaging with your customer.

27:27And that has big implications for how companies are organized, in particular how CX teams think about approving their experience. Yeah. I mean, I think you have all the information in the world, but if you say the wrong thing at the wrong time, then you just look like a dumbass. Well, that's true too. I think that adds another layer, right? Like no one likes to know it all as well. So I think once you have – so that is true, but it is necessary but not sufficient to have complete context. Absolutely. And we need to layer on an additional layer of expectation, of guardrails, of personality. I mean, it's also understanding and relevance, right?

28:06Yes. You have to fit the right sort of thing. So it's a bit like if I think about going to, say, the doctor, right? And you have a health concern. And the doctor, I don't know, in their own inimitable sort of like style starts to talk at you in a sort of patronizing kind of like way. it's unlikely you're going to hear a retake in what's been kind of saying to you. But if you have somebody that, I guess we talk about the old medical train, we talk about people's bedside manner. Right. Because you have somebody who might be a savant when it comes to medical science and they know everything about everything.

28:47But if their delivery is not right, then it doesn't quite kind of work. And so it's about all these different elements. And I think that's the interesting thing about context, because context is not just by the right message at the right time, but it's almost also in the right way to suit the person. Yeah. So the way I think about this is I think personalization is adjacent really to context. The way you personalize is a function of the context you have, but it is a discrete set of expectations that you're putting on a system or an agent or an experience. the bedside manner is a good example right like i agree that you ultimate experience is you have an amazing physician who's got incredible bedside manner but i would way rather a deeply experienced physician who is terrible with bedside manner than someone who's got amazing bedside manner and no medical knowledge and experience yeah no no i can understand that i know that's it it's a fair challenge and you you know you've got to get you've got to try and strike that kind of that balance because like yeah you don't want a snake oil salesman who's kind of great at charming you you know yeah absolutely nothing yeah and there's a charlatan when it comes to you know the the necessary background kind of like knowledge and expertise yeah um that but i think it's it you've got to bear that and but i think i think you've got to you've got to bear that in mind that's that's because the context you said also another thing that says the best experience of relationships that you have are the ones that have the most context that doesn't mean that that context is wielded or used inappropriately that's a separate problem to solve but yeah you're you're bringing up.

30:22Yeah. But me knowing that you just blew whims from London yesterday, the day before, and that you've been on a lot of flights recently, changes the way that I show up in our conversation with you. Of course. And whether or not I choose to wield that information or not, I have the opportunity to. If I didn't know that, it's much harder for us to form a connection as a small example. Yeah. And so tell me about the, what is the partnership? What is the aim to do? Partnership helps with context. That's one way to think about it. In that, you know, Ada is an agentic customer experience company. We power some of the most performant agents in the world across all channels.

31:01But we only have a window typically into the context and the channels that we live. Yeah. Medallia is, I think of, as extremely performant signal infrastructure. They're very good at ingesting customer signals everywhere. Yeah. And it turns out that if you deploy an AI agent with Ada in a messaging channel, and you pair that with the context of not only the customer experience historically in that messaging channel, but also the experience in the voice channel and surveys elsewhere, that that agent can be far more empathic, far more personalized, and deliver a better experience. Awesome. Because in the breakout session you did with Cordy, you kind of sort of brought that to life with a company called Ipsy.

31:45Correct. Yeah, Ipsy. Ipsy's a large online retailer, about 20 million customers. They're a good example of this. So they work with both ADA and... Because they were a Medallia customer, right? And then they became an ADA customer. Is that how the thing kind of came about? I think actually, in this case, we both were customers independently. Okay. And then we struck the partnership and we realized, oh, Ipsy's a great example of a company where now, they can get even more value. Okay. And so, and the more value they get is their agent is more capable and more personalized and it improves faster.

32:23And so tell me about, because you showed some pretty impressive stats that, you know, and these are not like, I thought that was, what's interesting is they're not like, there's not a case study stats where like when we did this and this is the results. So like going, these are the results for the last four months. Yes, exactly. Yeah. And so tell me about some of that because there's some big numbers. There are. Yeah, I think the results of the last four months are interesting in that Ipsy's AI agent's performance has improved along two key dimensions quite considerably. The first is that it's resolving 60 % more than it was prior.

32:56With all that additional context. Correct. And the second is that it's customer satisfaction. I think it's about 20 % higher post this integration and partnership. And again, you lose your mind. You're like, that's interesting. That's great. Those are great results. I think what's most important is that they continue to improve. And that's what this partnership really represents. It's a combination of a, you think of it as a system of insight or measurement from Medallia and a system of agentic CX in ADA. And there's a beautiful flywheel that happens there. Yes. You know, as Ipsy's AI agent becomes more capable and more personalized and engaged with more customers, capturing more insights, which feeds back and creates more opportunities to improve ahead.

33:39So I mean I think that for me that was all the results and the partnership and things was all really impressive. But I think the thing that I found also really interesting and it sort of circled back to the conversation that we had back in 2023 was you talked about this the evolving role of some of the human agents. Yeah, it's that sort of space. And I wanted to, one, actually, to explain to me what that's happened. And I'm going to put you on the spot and ask me, and ask you, do you remember how you referred to them back in 2023? Okay, yes, I have a idea. So the… So tell me about what's happening right now.

34:18Was it the AAC… ACX. ACX, folks. Because I think that's just starting to emerge in terms of the thing that, I feel like, the soft tissue dimension of harnessing the potential of a lot of this technology. And it's often the thing that many folks are already starting to really realize because they're starting to realize that the nature of enterprise software has fundamentally changed with the advent of AI-powered software. is maintenance and development is now shared for both vendor and customer. It's on a shared basis. That's a good way of putting that. Interesting, yeah. Because before it was like, you buy the software, you do the onboarding, you get training, you have a QBR, and you have access to customer success, and all the maintenance was over here.

35:07Whereas now you have to spin up and have a team of people that are going to do the development and the training and the monitoring and all these different sort of things. And I think that dimension, that cost and headcount and then expertise and capability dimension i think is only becoming apparent i agree i think i think the time is to how the companies we're certainly seeing the companies are powering the best customer experiences what do they have in common they have teams that manage their own ai agents yeah and the the central concept is that ai is a management discipline yeah this is not a tool like a previous generation of software that you and forget.

35:43This is not a space that allows humans to collaborate. This is a new operating muscle. And what our customers are doing is they're establishing ACX teams, agentic customer experience teams. These are folks who are responsible for the performance of their customer facing AI agents. And we equip them with the people, the process, the technology to become extremely successful. What we are rallying crimes, what we say inside it is, our mission in many ways is to make the world's ACX team succeed. Okay. And that's in service of improving the customer experience around the world. But our specific path to do that is to take this group of humans who are in these new crazy roles called ACX managers and give them superpowers.

36:34And that's what Ada does. Okay. And what's interesting now is that, yes, to make the markets waking up to this being needed. But it's also something we've been doing for quite some time. There are thousands of ACX managers in the world now. We have a large community of a lot of them who share best practices with one another, who have actually, many of them, now traveled to multiple different companies around long enough where their skill set is now coveted. And I think, I love your perspective on this, but I think this is kind of similar to like the earlier days of the web. Where, you know, these are, I think the ACX teams are a lot like the early web teams or digital teams.

37:12And it's kind of this small emerging group that ends up becoming extremely important and in many ways the backbone of the future of the company. And I think that's a fair sort of comparison, I think. I mean, they are, I call them early adopters, pioneers, call them whatever. They have a particular skill set that's in short supply. That's right. And I think I'd be interested to hear if you've got any insight about where they're coming from. Is it that people are migrating out of support into those roles or the contact center or the people coming adjacently? Often the first ACX manager is the top performing member of the customer service or customer experience organization.

37:59It's a new career path for them. And what's so cool is that many of them will, the minute they become an ACX manager, their career will take off. Many of them have gone on already in the last few years to become leaders in their respective companies, often owning not only CX, but a big part of operations. Okay. And that's because operations are becoming AI native. Yeah. So the ACX team in many ways we're seeing is catalyzing wider AI transformation, let's call it, to the lack of a better term. Um, and, uh, and that's pretty exciting. It means that a lot of the exact teams and boards and our customers are often highlighting these ACX managers as examples of team members who'd be more alike.

38:42Yeah. Awesome. Um, no, I hate that. That's exciting because it's like, it's, it's also, it's, it's, it's exciting to understand that there's a community of people that are doing that. And I think there's probably spots of communities and little communities around the place. It's human too, right? It reminds people that this is about giving a group of people more leverage over the customer experience. And in many ways, it goes way back to my founding days of ADEF. It's about really helping CX leaders build the experience they've always wanted. And I know you know this while we've connected on this over the years.

39:23It's like, who knows the customer best inside the company? It's not the product person. and everyone says it, people like to think it's the product. It's always your customer service representative. Yeah. Always. And they always know what the best experience is. They always know what it would be, but they haven't been empowered with the tools and the capability and the mandate to build it. And that, in many ways, is what ACX represents. Nice. A couple of final things. What's next for the partnership? I mean, what's to expect? Is that it's locked in, and we can see it exploding into the, Yeah, there's sort of that Medallia kind of partner.

39:58Yeah, we think so. I think there's just such great alignment between our teams. There's some great early examples of customers that are really benefiting through partnership. And we expect over the year ahead, there's going to be a lot more. And so new experiences, it'll be possible, and more customers, you can get them. Awesome. Anything else I missed out that you want to share with? I think broadly, like, if I look at 2026, we spoke about, you know, one core lesson across our customer base is that AI is being treated as a management discipline. That's key to success. There are two others that stand out.

40:31The second is that we've moved into the resolution era of CX. I would say we've been there for a couple of years. I think what's most important ahead is not just the resolution that your AI is powering, but the depth of resolution it's power. Resolution depth is a core area of focus for us as a company. It's one of the reasons many of our customers are super excited about the capabilities we're powering. And what that really means is that over time, the way to think about the quality of your customer experience will in part be a function of the complexity and time horizon of the tasks. Okay. So that's what you mean by the depth of the solution.

41:12Yes, that's right. And then the third thing is that I really think customer lifetime value is a big theme in 2026 ahead. this is this is not about driving efficiency it's not only about driving cross-sell upsell like the end of the day the best customer facing guy is going to increase your customer loyalty that's going to show up in some sort of cltv measure and i think the companies that are anchoring at that point first and foremost with top down those are the ones that are moving quickly and getting the best result so i think there's um i i i completely endorse that i think there was two things i would say is like the ways to think about it is that i got introduced to a concept late last year which i thought was brilliant and i've now subsequently sort of stolen it although it's called service dividend and service and it's how people are moving from that sort of point of i can use these technologies to achieve x which might be cost savings efficiency gains productivity headcount reduction whenever right but as people have been successful they've been able to they're able to realize they're going well we can we can achieve those cost reductions we can achieve those efficiency gains but we can also it's it's a choice do we take that and put it in our back pocket or do we take those kind of gains we go oh i can reinvest it back into my team and my you know research my training and all these sort of things and that's the service dividend i love that term.

42:42I haven't heard it discussed that way before. We talk about something very similar and we try to bring the service dividend to life for our customers. One way we do that is we encourage our customers to think about eye contact. And so the one way... We talked about eye contact earlier on as a point to Jenny who's slightly off camera. One way of thinking about... There's a lot of companies struggle with, I'm driving efficiency with AI. What do I do with that efficiency? And one way, one thing you can do is work backwards from the premise of what would be true about your business if everyone who was customer-facing spent way more time looking in your customers' eyes.

43:22And that's just true in most businesses, but you think about, you know, we are in a hotel right now. Think about the quality of experience benefit when the front desk employee isn't behind a computer screen when they greet you. Isn't going to have your name, number, but they know right away. you know it's great it's great to have you here um they they take your bags yeah the benefit i think of of becoming more human because of what you've automated is uh i think understated right now and you can think about it the service to an event and can be expressed in the amount of eye contact that people receive yeah no i love that i love that um and the other kind of thing i was going to i was going to highlight i had um on previous podcasts i had um sarah richter from SAP, Amarsis talking about their loyalty the customer loyalty index research that they do and how that's changing that's really interesting but she brought along and the last time that she brought was she brought Fred Reichelt on as well and Sid made a reference to this and the thing says that the ultimate question is no longer the ultimate question but actually what's interesting that Fred Reichelt was saying this is that this is not about score it's about a system of management it's about how you approach your kind of business and that that he believes that loyalty is actually the only game and how you drive loyalty and how you get to that point where people start to talk about you and refer you and he was like going he said most companies on average will have the best companies will take have about 20 percent of their customers will have been referred by 20 of the new customers will be referred by the existing kind of customers he says what's interesting about that is that that 20 % of new customers will drive 70 to 80 % of the profitability of your existing new customers just because of the quality of their route to your business.

45:17And if you're not leaning into that and developing more eye contact, as it were, actually trying to systematize all that sort of stuff and be intentional and deliberate about it, then you're losing out. I love that. So I think it's a great point. The idea that, because it comes back to sort of like, yeah, driving outcomes, which has been a big theme of the event. And, but driving outcomes that matter for both customers and employees and also kind of businesses and getting all those things right. I think that's the... Yeah, it's almost literally the second order of facts of a given outcome. I've driven a big efficiency outcome, but what's the dividend that it gives me?

45:57How do I make it? I think that's a really important question. Awesome. Mike? Thank you. great to be back on the parts great to see you great to see you too cheers for growth thanks again another great chat I'm really excited to see how the partnership with Medallia and Aida develops and I have to say that the results of their work together with Ipsy are impressive I also really like Mike's thoughts on the evolving roles of human agents it's definitely something to watch and investigate more so shall we get into the final interview with Paloma Paraja I should note that Paloma was recognised at the event as an experienced transformation leader via an XP award.

46:36So this is going to be a really great conversation. So let's get into it. So this is the third installment or the third instance of the series of interviews that I've been doing at Medallia Experience 2026 here in Las Vegas at the Wyatt. The Wyatt, not the Wyatt, the Wynn. Wyatt sounds like something I have a Western. And I'll probably leave that in anyway, because that's just the start of the podcast. But I'm joined with Paloma Paraja, who is a customer experience manager at Santa Lucia Seguros, which is an insurance company, I believe, in Spain. Welcome to the podcast. I want to start by saying, is this your first time at Medaglia event?

47:15Yes, my first time. So, your head must be bursting full of things. What have been some of the highlights for you over the last couple of days? It's been crazy. It's such a huge source of knowledge and a big opportunity to learn from many different points of view, roles, industries, sectors. But we all have something in common, which is like a shared purpose. So it has been wonderful to discover it and to go through all these very intense breakout sessions where we share ideas and you start to think about how to apply them to your own business and get all these sources of valuable insights and knowledge.

47:58This has been fantastic. Awesome. So you'll be back again next year, will you? I hope so. But just for having fun. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, but this year, one of the biggest reasons that you're here because I, let me get this right. You were the winner of the Experience Transformation Leader Award as part of the 2026 Medallia Axby Awards. Yes. Congratulations. Thank you so much. so I know that that was you were given that award because of the program that you're running at at Santa Lucia Seguros I wondered if you could tell me a little bit about what you've done and sort of how long it's taken and the some of the some of the impacts some of the outcomes that you've come to because outcomes seem to be a really big theme you know one of the overriding themes of the event.

48:50So tell me a little bit about the program. Okay. I arrived in Central Athenia in 2022. They had a very solid service system, but not more. The same year, I started leading the implementation of Medallia. Okay. So maybe the first step was to understand that we were not able to mobilize teams and to get teams involved of what we were saying, yet by sharing with them reports based on the scores and numbers. It was very difficult to make that understand what was happening behind. So our first step was to complete this service program that was already working by making context linked to every interaction.

49:35So we connected Medallia to our internal systems, our CRM, all the programs we use for operating. and link and bring with every interaction valuable information that we can use to better understand what's happening and not just what customers say. So, for example, in a home repair, we have information about which technicians were involved during the repair, how much does this cost to us, how long took us to finish all the work, so all this information that we can then like contrast with what customers are saying and kind of make an idea for all these teams that are involved in this process about how this process is going and how it's impacting the customer okay and is that what you meant you i know you i saw you were speaking you're being interviewed by sid on the main stage when as as part of the award and you said something which said that you said context builds empathy and is that kind of what you meant by that it's actually the internal kind of empathy yes absolutely because by understanding what's behind every traction is the only way of getting these things involved because they suddenly kind of start to see what is the action needed to change things and how they can get involved to to achieve it so yes context creates empathy with no doubt.

51:09And one of the other big themes out of the event is also this idea about demonstrating impact. You know, we kind of ROI. And I wanted to understand, I wanted to ask you a little bit, like, so the program is, it's, well, it's growing and it's maturing and things. Yes. What sort of ROI, what sort of impact has it had on the overall kind of business? Well, after service, after completing service or giving them contacts, we started to listen to unsolicited feedback, which was our maybe huge source of knowledge for customers because at least in our sector, when something is happening to you, you make sure that the company knows it and you don't wait until you receive a survey to do it.

51:58If something urgent is happening, you take the phone, you text a message, whatever you want, but you make us notice and the rest of the time in an insurance company you don't have interactions with your customers they are just paying but i think that's the thing is about about insurance right you buy insurance and you sort of hope that you never have to use it yes absolutely but when when something does happen you want you expect like you want people to show up and to fix things and everything else and but when they when they don't and it becomes hard then it becomes it's a very opposite ends of the spectrum so if somebody shows up and something goes wrong and you make a claim and everything goes great you're like it's like magic but when it becomes hard then it's like so it can be it's almost like a jackal and hyde type of thing and for that you need to listen during the process right you can't wait till the end to ask you need to know everything that's happening between all this time that could be could took us too long because many times for home repair we can spend weeks right even months if it's a huge complicated situation so we cannot wait we have and we need to listen that's why our next step was unsolicited feedback and then try and like to connect all these insights both from solicited or unsolicited feedback but trying to make like the whole picture of the customer to better understand how they behave through different moments of their life with you and then aggregate all these individual cases to make like kind of patterns and trying to understand better how we are performing truly performing and i'm i'm assuming that you could probably take say similar instances like say there may be a customer that has had maybe a home repair they're making a claim and they will have had a certain experience and you can see how that works and then something also a very different experience and you can manage the you know the the difference and what the impact is on the kind of the business and that's where you can kind of see or if we can if we move everybody to here then we can save kind of like this and you can start to see all that through through this massive signal data, you can start to pull out kind of comparators, as it were.

54:23And that's also when you can start to, like, kind of measure this business impact. Right. When you aggregate different cases. For example, in a home repair, it's quite simple. If something is happening during the process or the process is getting too long, it's very easy, for example, for a customer to call you three, four, five times what he needs just to ask, how is this going? If you are able to detect it on the first one and prevent the next one because you take action, that means you're saving too much money. Yeah. On a repeated course. Yeah. So this has a clear impact KPI on business that allow us to step forward and to continue doing things.

55:13And I guess it goes back to that sort of context builds empathy sort of thing, is when you start building those connections to teams and they understand the impact and they understand that actually if you've got a customer that has been chasing for updates, then say when the appointment actually happens for the work to be done, you're not met with a frosty customer. You're met with a welcoming customer, then it makes their job easier as well. So I guess it's looking at it in a systemic sort of way and trying to understand all the connections and what are good connections and what are good flows and what are not so good flows and how you can remove some of those sort of things.

55:52Does that make sense? Yes, absolutely. Awesome. So the other thing I wanted to ask, because there's a couple of things I wanted to pick up with the things that you also said in your conversation, was the next one was about, you said, listening is discipline. and I wanted to understand what you kind of meant by that because I thought, well, actually, people talk about listening, listening all the time and things and across different channels, but I didn't really understand the discipline. I was sure that you were trying to make a specific point and I wanted to ask you about what you're actually trying to say there because I think it's quite important.

56:28It is. Listening is just not connecting Medaglia to whatever system and start to collect information. You have to work hard on it to really get what you need to know from that. So it's a discipline in a way. You have to be continuously pendent of that with an eye put on it and controlling a lot what you're receiving, learning all those topics, all the themes customers are demanding you. And being able to react to that and to all that information, which is huge information. So having this ability to be constantly monitoring this and reacting in real time, minute by minute, is a discipline and needs a hard work to not end by just collecting data and not doing anything.

57:23Yeah. Which is a big risk. Well, exactly. I mean, I think that you end up with, you get to the point where there's lots of research that says that many marketing CX leaders, service leaders, whatever, they've got more data than they know what to do with. Absolutely. And so if you don't understand kind of what it is you're, what you're doing and why, then it, again, it doesn't, it's just like, it's all a bit haphazards. So maintaining this and maintaining also all the company also listening needs hard work and a very high discipline. Do not get lost in all this. yes exactly i mean and so the the next thing i wanted to ask you about it's just the final thing from the conversation with with sidus and it's almost a bit like a revisiting an old idea and it's something which i think it was i wanted to ask you about because it sort of gets lost in all this big data and analytics and ai powered systems and things and you talked about um putting on your customer's shoes absolutely um tell me how that manifested itself in your kind of like in your case, in your program?

58:32For me, it's absolutely necessary to, in our care factor today, stop and think in a very concrete situation, me as a customer, what should I do? Because we are customers all the time for many companies and we have very clear what we expect as customers. And then when you're a CX leader or you work in a big company, sometimes you forget it. And you just focus on, okay, the numbers are saying this, I need to achieve this score, I need to get these objectives. But sometimes it's so simple as stop, think in a very particular situation and imagine what would you expect as a customer? Me as a customer, having an insurance product of whatever, what should I expect?

59:23I think it's an important point because actually I characterize it a bit like a Jekyll and Hyde syndrome. So it's a bit like you can be a person, like a regular citizen, human being, and then you cross the threshold of your organization and you turn into this. yes but you cannot live or change your i always say this you cannot change like your mask and for one moment be a customer for the moment be worker and whatever another time you are father another time you're a friend you are all these things all the time yeah and you can't forget it it's very important yeah absolutely and it links back to that whole sort of just an empathy kind a point because actually the work that we're trying to do is we're trying to be empathetic to our customers' needs and then by doing that we'll be able to serve them better and make better decisions to serve them.

1:00:22So what's next for the program, apart from world domination, obviously? Don't think so. It's so far for us. We have two losers for that, but at least for our customers which are the most important ones for us. The next big steps are focused on predictability and proactivity. We have nowadays enough information to do it, especially coming from a structured feedback. Until now, we have been reacted, I think, incredibly fast. But the next step is to react before things happen. And through this information that we collect on speech analytics, digital, social service, being able to anticipate needs, risks, and even operational specs, even before they happen, and being able also to redistribute our networks of providers, our contact center teams, depending on real-time demand.

1:01:25And completing the circle with that information, also communicate proactively to customers. When we detect the first signal of any kind of risk, yes, to avoid them, to give them some help.

1:01:45Information. Yes, helpful information for them. Recording them what warranties they have, refreshing all that that you're saying one day in a contract and you probably forget, but you can use it, how you need to use it, and all these kind of things. I mean, the thing is that it's a really, I mean, people have talked about proactive service for the longest time. And I think people have waited for technology to catch up to make it easy for them. But actually, you know, it's always been possible. It's just been a bit harder without the technology. Now it's a bit easier. But I think what's interesting is it speaks to a very human, if you like, phenomenon, which is particularly in a case which is a high emotional sort of high emotional stakes case within insurance, whether it's home repair or whether it's travel or whatever it might be.

1:02:39or it might be when you make a claim or you have something happen and you don't hear you don't get any feedback or you don't provide any information there's a there's a an idea which says nature abhors a vacuum so in the absence of other information our anxieties help us make stuff up and we kind of create all these scenarios in our head and so and that just causes problems further down the line. And so being proactive just assuages people's concerns. Yes. Sometimes you just need to say, I'm working on it. Be patient. I would solve it. Don't over-engineer it. Yes. Just going to say, we're here.

1:03:19We're on it. What's happening? We're taking care of it. We know this is happening to you. We have all our teams working for you. Be patient. We will contact you. We will solve it. And that's it. You don't need anything more. You need to be proactive for that. Yeah, and I think that's the thing is that you don't need to over-engineer it, you don't need to come up with the answer to everything you just need to basically say, we got you, we're working on it, this is what we know, this is what's happening and things, and then give people, it's almost like information so then it stops those anxieties kind of building out, and I think it's a really powerful thing.

1:03:52So thank you for that, and congratulations on the success of the program and the award and everything else so far and good luck for you know building that proactive kind of layer which is going to is going to help immensely I would imagine but given you've gone through this if somebody's listening to this and thinking about their own sort of program what sort of advice would you give them what would you say do this do this don't do that that type of that type of thing I would say try try try and try don't be afraid of failing sometimes of not achieving things try to find very little but well-defined use cases where you can show business impact and through that then escalate to biggest things but don't pretend to have everything from the beginning because if you connect everything you start to move this huge volume of data, you will probably get lost.

1:05:01It's better going step by step and understanding well what you're doing and what you're receiving in every step. Okay. And then making it at scale. Yeah. And maybe the biggest learning through all this time for us at least was that great customer experience is just humanity at scale. You can't forget that we're all humans and our customers are too. They have their needs, their worries, and everything you need to cover in every interaction. I think that's a great place to end. Great customer experience is humanity at scale. Absolutely. Drop the mic. Let's walk off. Thank you so much and congratulations on the award.

1:05:53Thank you so much. Wow, that's another great conversation. And I just must say, congratulations to Paloma and the team at Santa Lucia Seguros for all they have achieved and long may it continue. So that's it for the interviews. I hope that you found them insightful and that they gave you a flavor of some of the highlights from the event and a lot of things to think about as well. Do tune in again. All the very best. Thanks. wow what a great interview i hope you enjoyed it i know i did find out more about me and the work that i do at adrianswinsco.com do leave a review on your favorite podcast platform and if you have any comments feedback or questions about the podcast then feel free to send me a message to podcast at adrianswinsco.com and do tune in again thanks very much