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Podcast Notes: Rachel Johnson's Difficult Women - Episode 191: Sophy Ridge
Podcast Overview Title: Rachel Johnson's Difficult Women Description: The podcast features conversations with women who embrace the label "difficult" as a badge of honor, discussing their struggles and triumphs in various fields.
Episode Highlights Guest Introduction
- Guest: Sophy Ridge, a prominent Sky News presenter known for her successful career in journalism.
- Notable Achievements:
- Started as a reporter at The News of the World at 24.
- Launched her own Sky News show, *Sophy Ridge on Sunday*, at 32.
Sophy Ridge's Approach to Journalism
- Ridge is characterized as "more golden retriever than rottweiler," emphasizing a warm and sincere interview style.
- Reflects on the importance of being nice and accepting compliments, challenging societal norms that encourage women to downplay their achievements.
Gender Dynamics in Journalism
- Discussion on the ingrained self-effacing attitudes in women, with Ridge acknowledging the need for women to inhabit their space and be proud of their accomplishments.
- Ridge shares her journey of learning to assert herself better over time and highlights the continued pay disparities between men and women in the industry.
Personal Experiences and Challenges
- Sophy recounts her supportive upbringing, with both parents as teachers, and her academic journey leading to Oxford University.
- She reflects on the challenges of sexism and ageism within journalism, noting that while she faced preconceived notions, she also found advantages in being a young female journalist, especially in forging connections with female MPs.
Noteworthy Interview Experiences
- Ridge details her early experiences at the News of the World, emphasizing the competitive environment and the learning opportunities it provided.
- A significant moment mentioned was her exclusive interview with Prime Minister Theresa May, where she confronted May with a controversial quote from Donald Trump, which resulted in pushback from May's team.
Career Development and Future Plans
- Sophy Ridge discusses her transition to co-hosting a new breakfast show at Sky and the importance of being able to interview politicians face-to-face.
- Anticipates the upcoming challenges and excitement in covering a more varied range of stories beyond politics.
Personal Insights
- Ridge shares personal stories, including her early career struggles, navigating motherhood alongside professional milestones, and the support she received from her organization during her pregnancy.
Key Takeaways
- Empowerment Through Authenticity: Both Ridge and Johnson emphasize the importance of women being authentic and proud of their achievements, rejecting societal pressures to be modest.
- The Fight Against Inequality: The conversation highlights ongoing issues of gender disparity in the workplace, particularly in media, and the need for women to speak up against inequities.
- Navigating Career and Family: Ridge's experiences illustrate the balance that many women face between advancing their careers and managing family responsibilities.
Conclusion The episode provides insightful commentary on the challenges faced by women in journalism and the importance of supporting one another to change workplace dynamics. Sophy Ridge exemplifies how embracing one's identity and advocating for fairness can lead to a successful career while maintaining personal integrity.
Listen Details
- Show Time: The new breakfast show starts on November 3rd, 7 to 10 AM.
- Podcast Availability: Available on Global Player and all major podcast platforms.
Social Media
- Rachel Johnson: Follow on Twitter: [@RachelSJohnson](https://twitter.com/RachelSJohnson)
- Sophy Ridge: Not specified in the transcript; potential follow-up via Sky News channels.
Additional Notes
- Interested listeners can explore further discussions on gender in politics and journalism, as well as Ridge's forthcoming book on women's contributions to British politics.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:01Rachel Johnson:This is a Global Player original podcast.
0:11Rachel Johnson:Well behaved women rarely make history. Bloody difficult women do.
0:24Rachel Johnson:This is a really special one. I had a sit down with Sophy Ridge. she's about to launch the new breakfast show on sky we had a jolly good chinwag about everything fleet street sexism ageism and the time she interviewed teresa may but it's just i have to say this this is a great listen welcome to difficult women
1:03Rachel Johnson:I'm not supposed to have any favourites on Difficult Women, but I've met to a soft spot for Sophie Ridge, who's had a stratospheric rise through the broadcast firmament to becoming lead politics presenter on Sky News and soon to be the co-host of Breakfast, and therefore a challenger to our own Nick Ferrari at Breakfast. She is impossibly talented, nice and young, only 41. Sophie, I think you are proof that nice girls can finish first. Or do you hate that?
1:34Sophy Ridge:No, I'm really, really touched by that intro. Thank you. That's really, honestly, it's very sweet of you. And it means a lot. And I'm sure none of it is true at all. I do try to be quite nice, actually. I do try and be nice. I think it's a kind of good rule of thumb, right? And I'm happy to embrace the nice girl thing.
1:56Rachel Johnson:Or I try to be anyway. I think it's really important that women also learn how to accept compliments. So you've obviously learnt that. There's no point in just going around saying, no, no, I look terrible. No, no, it was rubbish. You know, if it's true, just say thank you. And I think that's something that I would tell other women. Yeah, I think that's totally right.
2:17Sophy Ridge:And I think you've hit the nail on the head that as women, we are always basically ingrained to downplay our achievements, right? our achievements and things that are good about ourselves. It's almost like that whole thing about trying to kind of make us smaller. And I do think it's actually quite important to resist that sometimes and to kind of inhabit the space. And if there's something that you've done that you're proud of, to be actually proud of it. I do have that voice at the back of my mind quite often being like, oh my God, I don't want to come across as arrogant or, you know, too assertive or all those kind of negative words that we use to describe women that we wouldn't use to describe men.
2:54Sophy Ridge:but I think it is important to have that kind of belief in ourselves as well.
2:59Rachel Johnson:Just when we're on this subject about being sort of self-effacing and kind of denying that we've ever done a thing worthwhile what's your attitude towards complaining? Because we're in an industry where there are actually quite few women who've been foregrounded by their media organisations and foregrounded for many decades in the way that men are. And how good are you at saying, no, that's not right. I'm not going to put up with it. I think that I got better at it, is what I would say.
3:37Sophy Ridge:I think early in my career, like for lots of women, I kind of sucked up a lot of stuff. And I think maybe the sad thing is that is what you have to kind of do at the beginning. But why? Well, because you want to get on, don't you? You want to get a job, you want to have a career. And I think you do have to put up with a bit of stuff. And so I definitely kind of, I think, kind of swallowed my tongue at points earlier in my career. Now I'm much better at not doing that, which is a good thing, I think. And I also feel that responsibility that once you have reached a certain level, that it is important to try and change behaviour and culture to help other women as well.
4:19Rachel Johnson:You started off, as I did, as a reporter. and I discovered after a couple of years of being a grad trainee where I was, the paper I was, that the bloke who'd come in the same level at the same age had already been put up a pay scale and I went in and complained and I remember my heart hammering. Do you still think that that happens in the industry and men are just naturally put on a higher rate than women? If you discovered, for example, that Will Frost, your co-host, was getting paid more than you to present Sky, what would you do? Well, first, I don't think that is the case.
4:58Sophy Ridge:No, I know. This is a hypothetical. But I would go in now. Yeah, definitely. I think it's important to. I have a similar memory of when I was starting off as a reporter. Which I want to ask you about very soon. But there was a guy there who was, you know, he was a bit more senior than me. And I remember he just quite, he just casually told me that he goes in and asks for a pay rise every year. and it kind of flabbergasted me at the time. I was like, what? You go in every year and ask for a pay rise? And he was like, yeah. And then I kind of thought, look, some of this is, I think, sexism and bias, but also we do actually have to learn to be a bit more assertive sometimes.
5:36Sophy Ridge:And I thought it was quite a good lesson. I was like, oh my God, the guys are going in all the time asking for this. They are. And getting it. And getting it, right? And I think that, again, it comes back to what we were discussing at the beginning where sometimes you have that self-effacing nature and you don't want to be a difficult woman.
5:51Rachel Johnson:But this is historical, you know, Sophie, because the civil service until the 70s, if you got married, you had to leave the civil service. You know, it was very unusual. And there is still this assumption that you've got a husband supporting you so you can be paid less than the man.
6:07Sophy Ridge:Yeah, I think it's totally right. I think it's totally right. And also there's the assumption as well that I think there's often the questions about, you know, how are you going to manage family, which a guy wouldn't get. often it's just assumed that the guy is going to have like a partner who is effectively supporting him and allowing him to keep the show on the road and it's I think it's hard for our generation as well because you know a lot of us are in kind of dual working you know households and stuff like that so it's it's a juggle.
6:34Rachel Johnson:So it hasn't changed very much let's go back to your childhood it when I said impossibly talented nice and young I read about your childhood and I thought impossibly secure and happy sounding. So tell us a bit about it.
6:48Sophy Ridge:It was actually. I had a really lovely childhood. Two teacher parents? Yeah, so my parents were both teachers. My mum was a special needs teacher at a primary school and my dad sort of taught in kind of inner city comprehensives. Both state sector? Yeah, both state schools, yeah. So not a hugely wealthy background then? No, it wasn't a hugely wealthy background, but I also wasn't wanting, if that makes sense. So I kind of had, I think, a privileged background. In the things that matter. In the things that matter, exactly. So, you know, we had, yeah, it was good. Me and my brother, we were in southwest London.
7:31Sophy Ridge:Yeah.
7:31Rachel Johnson:So Richmond and sort of leafy Richmond, sort of sports at the weekend.
7:36Sophy Ridge:Yeah.
7:37Rachel Johnson:Cooking with mum, football with dad. I don't know. Just fill in the blanks a bit. That's basically it.
7:41Sophy Ridge:So we were in Teddington. A bit similar, right, you know, kind of leafy, you know. And I was a bookworm, really, as a kid. So I was a bit of geek. I like reading books and doing jigsaws, which makes me seem like a massive loser. That's all there was. I loved it. Monopoly and jigsaws and Cluedo. Yeah, exactly. Cluedo. Loved Cluedo. Still love Cluedo, actually. Me too. Cluedo. I mean, that was an exciting evening, Cluedo. Yeah, exactly. and yeah we were my dad was into Sheffield Wednesday so kind of football was a kind of part of our lives growing up although I didn't really play that much sport I have to say
8:18Rachel Johnson:And you did go to girls private school Tiffin isn't it a girls private school?
8:24Sophy Ridge:It's a grammar It's a grammar So it was a selective school so I had to be honest and it is one of those places that it's like you know it was very academically focused You were lucky to go there Yeah, it was a very good school. Yeah, yeah. I learned a lot there.
8:42Rachel Johnson:And then Teddy Hall?
8:43Sophy Ridge:Yeah, Teddy Hall. Oxford?
8:45Rachel Johnson:Yeah, Oxford after that. Where you read English? I did, yeah. Because all that bookworming paid off.
8:53Sophy Ridge:Yeah, exactly. I always knew I wanted to do English lit, which it's funny. I remember my brother sort of sending me classic sibling teasing. He used to send me, before I did English, all the sort of data showing that actually English lit grads earn like nothing and it's like a terrible degree to do. But I loved it because it doesn't matter because I've read books for three years basically.
9:16Rachel Johnson:Interesting. No, both my parents read English and my husband, weirdly. And they all say they wish they'd read something else. Did they? I think there's a massive workload for the reading and you start with kind of Chaucer. Yeah, I think that... Or no, before Chaucer.
9:33Sophy Ridge:Yeah, you do Old English, which actually that's quite fun, like Beowulf and stuff. But then there is, you know, I like books, but there was, yeah, the medieval period is heavy going. You know, the fairy queen and Spencer. Sigourney and Spencer. Yeah, it's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of words there. Are you glad you read English? Oh, yeah, yeah. I would never have read anything else, to be honest. Actually, I tell a lie. Sorry, this is not, this is boring for everyone else, but just for the record, my father got in on classics and then changed to English and regretted it, I think.
10:03Rachel Johnson:But who cares? Yeah. what did you do then what was your i did well um what i was going to say was i was i did oxbridge i sat oxbridge going in to do english and then my father said to me very kindly he said darling you won't get in because it's too competitive if you if you try english you've got to try for mods and greats try literary humaniores or what we call classics and i said okay dada and so then in October which was the Oxford term I changed to great to classics and I got into new college to read classics by the way I'm sure you would have actually I wanted to read English I was told not to
10:42Sophy Ridge:that is that's absolutely fascinating do you regret it do you wish you'd gone for English or
10:49Rachel Johnson:that's a good question in a way I feel quite proud that I managed to stay the course yeah because it was four years that's a lot it was grinding yeah and it was heavy going to as hardcore i'll be honest but also um i think childbirth wipes our memories i don't know i mean i was very impressed that you could come up with any of the books on your set lists because sometimes i go to like a greek you know temple or a latin or the coliseum and ivo says my you know can you translate that and i'm like yeah no i think it's it i i forget stuff all the time maybe
11:22Sophy Ridge:it is childbirth i'm going to use that because i honestly my memory memory is okay that makes me feel better because i was like maybe i'm got some sort of but also i genuinely think as women you
11:32Rachel Johnson:would you're mentioning you know you do the double load or the triple load of the double job and all that i genuinely think that there's a bit of our mark of our brain that nature says look you don't need this anymore you don't need all this yeah you don't need to remember what you read when you were at oxford um so i'm going to clear that space for where the the the gym kit is yeah i think that's
11:54Sophy Ridge:It's it. It's almost like your brain kind of sorting information. Yeah, exactly. Into the relevant.
11:59Rachel Johnson:It's put it right down into the irrelevant bit. And it takes so long to retrieve it, you think you've forgotten it.
12:04Sophy Ridge:Which is a bit depressing in a way, because it's like all those happy memories and love of books, whatever, has been replaced by, like, you know, where are the toothbrushes? And, you know, when am I going to fix the toilet?
12:13Rachel Johnson:I know. And whose birthday do I need to remember? Honestly, it's so unfair. I know.
12:37Rachel Johnson:When you were at Oxford, you went to a lecture or something from some News of the World journalist. I mean, this is the most unlikely bit of your whole career. Go on.
Read the full transcript
12:47Sophy Ridge:It's true, I did. There was a News of the World journalist who came to do a talk. Why did you go? Because I was desperate to get into journalism.
12:55Rachel Johnson:Because you'd done some stuff for the Oxford students or whatever it was. Yeah, exactly.
12:58Sophy Ridge:And I really wanted to get into journalism. And I didn't know anyone in journalism. And I was at the stage there where anyone who was vaguely in journalism, I was there. I applied for work experience at Zoom magazine at my time at university. I was desperate. Is that one of those lads, Mags? Yeah. And what happened? Did you go? No, I didn't, actually.
13:17Rachel Johnson:They would have loved you.
13:18Sophy Ridge:Which I'm quite pleased about, to be honest. But I was kind of snapping at everything. And, yeah, so this guy called Paul Nicholas, he came to do a talk at the university. And then after the talk, I asked him for work experience and then did work experience at News of the World and then applied for their graduate traineeship off the back of that.
13:37Rachel Johnson:So did the News of the World, obviously, I know it's News UK, did they have, which has since been closed down, of course, because of phone hacking. But did they have a grad, did each paper like the Sun and the News of the World, I know the Times did because I didn't get it. I don't think the Sunday Times did. Did they each have a graduate trainee scheme? Yes. That's amazing. I think so.
13:57Sophy Ridge:I wonder if they still do. Yeah, I don't know, to be honest. But yeah, they did. So it's an individual News of the World graduate trainee programme. And they paid for my journalism training. You did NCTJ. I did my NCTJ.
14:11Rachel Johnson:Where did you do it? I had to do it too. I did mine in Harlow. I did mine in Hastings. Oh, there we go. I love it. God, but Hastings was fun. Yeah, mine was six months too. Hastings must have been fun. Can I tell you a secret I haven't ever revealed? I'm quite intrigued. I was so entitled and arrogant that I left before the exam. So I don't actually have a journalism qualification. Don't tell anyone that. I know. And my son, Oliver, was kicked out of Manchester. And he then did the NCTJ and he got it. The shorthand, the typing, the law for journalists. It was quite a lot.
14:46Sophy Ridge:The shorthand was hard. I was useless. What was your rate per minute? Well, I got over it, so was it like 120 or something? You didn't. No, no, this is idea gel. Can you still do shorthand? Yeah, I'll be honest, I actually use it still. Oh, I'm so jealous.
15:00Rachel Johnson:You're a proper journalist, Sophie Ridge. That's basically the only... So I want to hear now. Okay, I've given you a massive confession now. I want to hear what it was like at the screws. Oh, blimey. By the way, that's what, if you're in the trade, our inky trade, the news of the world is called the news of the screws, the screws for short. It was full on.
15:22Sophy Ridge:It was full on. So they would do things like it was a very, very competitive place to work. They would do things like they had like the news desk and the features desk, which were effectively run like two news desks, two rival news desks. so they would send a news reporter and a feature reporter out on the same story and see who comes back so you were in constant competition with everyone else in the paper is what I would say so it was quite full on I learnt an awful lot there I have to say, I really did on, like you know you'd come, you'd have even if there was a traineeship I got no free stories like it all had to be my own ideas so you'd come in every Tuesday and you'd sit around the features desk, for example.
16:09Rachel Johnson:So were you on news or features? I was on features.
16:11Sophy Ridge:And then I then moved to doing politics with a guy called Ian Kirby, who was an amazing mentor to me, actually. And that was when I really started enjoying it, I think. Because before then, I'm not sure if enjoyment is the word. Because you had a subject then.
16:24Rachel Johnson:Because before, features is like anything. Yeah, it's anything. It could be, why is Claudia really left Strictly?
16:31Sophy Ridge:Yeah, exactly. It's honestly everything. and then I moved to politics and I just felt a bit more protected there I think as well.
16:39Rachel Johnson:But also you could develop your own contacts. You could actually start digging into stories.
16:44Sophy Ridge:And I was part of the lobby so I was in Westminster. Oh my God, and how old were you when you got a lobby pass? I must have been probably like 24. So I was a kid, I was a kid, yeah.
16:55Rachel Johnson:Okay, so my goodness. Sophie, I see you as a sort of kind of going into the lion's den in two lion's dens because you've got the screws which is a really hard-bitten Sunday tabloid and for those who have never worked on a Sunday newspaper, I have. The pressure is unbelievable. Unbelievable because you've only got one day to make an impact. And, you know, if you're on The Times or The Sun or The Mirror, you know, tomorrow's another day. But on a Sunday, it's next Sunday is the next day. So you've got a week to stress about the fact you didn't get anything in the paper or whatever.
17:35Sophy Ridge:Yeah, that's true.
17:36Rachel Johnson:Did you get any good scoops?
17:38Sophy Ridge:I think the story that I'm proudest of is I did, it was probably about three or four weeks undercover in Brussels at the European Parliament. And it was an investigation that we did about expense fraud by MPs. I'm sorry but that
17:58Rachel Johnson:that is like I mean and it was expensing was the main work sorry this is a terrible thing to say I worked at the European Parliament my father was a European MP but I could see the
18:10Sophy Ridge:gravy train we were on it it was kind of exceptional and I spent a lot of time with one of the UKIP MEPs actually and some of that stuff it was quite shocking like people just clocking in not doing any work like going out like it was yeah it was pretty What was your cover story? I was on work experience. So I basically was, yeah, I said that I was on work experience.
18:35Rachel Johnson:And were you allowed to file expenses? Is this how you got the stories? I mean... Oh, no, I just observed what they were doing, basically.
18:43Sophy Ridge:Oh, God, I could have given you tons of stuff. Well, yeah, and I should have, honestly. But they kept trying to cut down on it, you know.
18:50Rachel Johnson:Why do you need to move everything between Strasbourg and Luxembourg and Brussels? the money they wasted in that place.
18:59Sophy Ridge:It was quite an eye-opener, I'll be honest. And also it's because you just don't get the scrutiny there that you would in your national parliament. So, like, you know, if you're an MP, you're just not going to get away with that stuff now. Although I know there was an expensive scandal, obviously, in Westminster. But you were under much more scrutiny. People know who you are. At the time, you didn't have that. So people were, you know, taking the piss a bit, probably. Yeah, yeah.
19:24Rachel Johnson:So there was the expenses scandal. That was for the news of the world. That was for the screws. And you then, you're in the lobby. And of course, you look young, you're blonde, you're beautiful. I mean, I would disagree with a lot of that, by the way. Well, OK, you must remember to take the compliments. I know. I'm not following my own advice here. No, but I mean. Thank you.
19:46Sophy Ridge:Was that an advantage or a disadvantage? It's a great question. That is a really, really good question. And if I'm honest, I think it was probably an advantage. being young and you know female because it was i think this is the thing that i feel slightly divided by because i think it is harder being a woman right and and i really do believe that you've got to put up with quite a lot of crap right and you know we talk about the money split and all that kind of thing and the responsibility and all that stuff but i never actually feel like being a woman held me back in my career in fact it probably helped me if i'm being honest you know because there weren't, particularly back then, there weren't as many female journalists in the lobby, so it made it harder, but it also was probably an advantage as well because it meant that you could forge those relationships with the women who were there, with female MPs.
20:37Rachel Johnson:I think, you know. Do you have any horror stories of sexism or groping or harassment or, you know, in the bars or in the newsroom?
20:47Sophy Ridge:To be honest, not the sort of groping or sexual harassment. I mean, I think more for me it was, you know, people kind of underestimating you or like I had quite a lot of people like thinking I was a fashion journalist or the makeup artist. Yeah, exactly. Sorry, you said girl and I should have said artist. No, no, I said girl. Yeah, it's true. You know, exactly. This is it. So I think it's that unconscious bias. Could you get us a coffee? Yeah, I think that was what.
21:16Rachel Johnson:Did you make an effort to present as a kind of professional woman then? And we're going to talk about how much time and effort that takes. You do television. I mean, which means that's next level grooming and female admin. I mean, as you get older and older, you know, the effort you take, you know, not to freshen the horses has to be. You have to kind of pile it on more and more. you're not at that stage but you know talk us through you know your attitude towards presentation and yeah what it takes to kind of to hold the positions you do um first i should say you and
21:58Sophy Ridge:i'm not even sure if this is an appropriate thing to say but you also look amazing all the time me yes i think you look incredibly put together and cool and all that kind of stuff but anyway Oh, God, I've got my head in my hands. You have to take the fashion to comfort as well. Well, thank you. Naturally, I am a massive scruff. So it is a constant... At home? Yes, I am a, you know... Tracksuit. I'm a tracksuit and a, you know, like ponytail and wearing last night's mascara kind of girl, if I'm being honest, right? That's my natural state. So it's a constant battle.
22:32Rachel Johnson:But you can go in and you keep clothes at work and you obviously have your hair and makeup done and you always look immaculate.
22:37Sophy Ridge:Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest, I think that the fact that I can go and spend 45 minutes with an incredible professional makeup artist before going on air is a complete blessing. So, yeah, I go in looking like, you know, I've been dragged through a bush and emerge looking like.
22:54Rachel Johnson:So you can actually go in in your slippers and tracksuit. And because, by the way, I've still got a lot of clothes at Sky in a cupboard after the pledge clothes.
23:03Sophy Ridge:You'll have to tell me where they are. I will.
23:04Rachel Johnson:You see, I'm too fat for them now. So you must go and pick them up. There's like a blue Roland Mouret knockoff dress. Amazing. Very tight with panels. Go and get it.
23:13Sophy Ridge:I'm going to go. I'm going to take some notes after this.
23:16Rachel Johnson:I'm sure there's a red dress as well. Sounds amazing. And it's so far to Ostilly. I can't be bothered to go and pick them up. It is a long way. So you can have them.
23:24Sophy Ridge:So at the minute, I do get change before going in. But because I'm moving to breakfast in the morning program.
23:31Rachel Johnson:So will you be doing that out of Ostilly or Milbank?
23:33Sophy Ridge:Milbank. But I'm going to keep all my stuff at work. The breakfast show is coming out of Milbank. Oh, is that a change? So it has been there before, but we've made the kind of deliberate decision to keep it there. Mainly because... Politics, getting the politicians in. Exactly. I think when you have those political interviews and you're kind of eyeballing each other, you're kind of as far away as you and I are now, it makes such a difference, right?
23:56Rachel Johnson:So you will then have a real advantage over BBC because they're in Salford. Yeah, I think so. And you have to spend the night, the night before, because I've done BBC breakfast. Yeah. So you're already ahead of the BBC.
24:09Sophy Ridge:I think it makes a big difference for those morning round interviews. And also the other thing I'll say is, you know, a lot of people kind of denigrate the morning round, which is basically when ministers have to trot around lots of different radio studios and TV studios doing interviews. But for me, you know, my background, I love politics and it's the kind of thing that I'm really excited about as well. What about all the soft stuff? Are you looking forward to doing the kind of the dog who says sausages?
24:36Sophy Ridge:I'm not sure if we do the dog who says sausages
24:38Rachel Johnson:So Sky Breakfast is going to be what?
24:41Sophy Ridge:I am looking forward to doing more I would say zeitgeisty stories like stuff that you and I are actually just talking about in our actual normal lives and that you go and talk to your girlfriends about or your mum about so I am looking forward to doing those kind of interviews if that makes sense
25:17Rachel Johnson:you've also i love this i found this in your wiki entry you'll make i think you'll understand why this made me laugh. Oh no, what is this? In the same year, Sophie Ridge released her first book. Oh no. I'm going to laugh. The Women Who Shaped Politics, a non-fiction book which discussed women's contribution to British politics. They have to say non-fiction as if, because there are so few women who shape politics, it could have been fiction. Do you see? Yeah, exactly. Which is true as well. Oh my goodness. Imagine. Oh, my goodness. Imagine a man writing a book called The Men Who Shaped Politics.
25:58Rachel Johnson:A non-fiction book, in case you were worried.
26:01Sophy Ridge:Yeah, exactly. It's true, though, as well. We're used to seeing female politicians now, but actually it's been relatively recent, to be honest. It's extraordinary.
26:12Rachel Johnson:Well, Barbara Castle in the 70s. Well, Nancy Astor, let's start with her. She was an American, our first female MP. then you've got quite a long time until you get to Barbara Castle, Mrs Thatcher, you know, Edwina Curry, Theresa May, Liz Truss. Yeah. I mean, it's not a lot, is it?
26:31Sophy Ridge:It's absolutely not a lot. And you talk about people like Nancy Astor or Barbara Castle, they were on their own, basically. It's absolutely incredible, to be honest. Like, no, they were the real sort of trailblazers. It's have to be pretty tough, I think.
26:46Rachel Johnson:you did get a famous you know sit down interview with Theresa May she's a hard interviewer
26:54Sophy Ridge:interviewee I mean isn't she she's very hard so I interviewed her before for that non-fiction book actually I think you should write a fictional book maybe I should children's book maybe like a science fiction
27:10Rachel Johnson:how different the world would be we had to make it up darling because there weren't any women who shaped politics Exactly. So what was interviewing Theresa May like?
27:21Sophy Ridge:I think she is quite hard to interview. I'll be honest. It's hard. It's hard to get her to, you know, because you're kind of desperate. You know why this is called Difficult Women, don't you? Oh, yeah. Bloody Difficult Women, right? On Sky. On Sky. Ken Clark. Hot Mike. Ken Clark. Yeah, exactly. She was a bloody difficult woman, actually. She's also quite a bloody difficult one to interview. But she, you know, I respect it in some ways, actually. You know, I do respect her as a politician and she is a female politician and all that kind of stuff as well. But yeah, it was the first Sunday morning programme for me.
28:00Sophy Ridge:So I felt, you know.
28:00Rachel Johnson:When you were doing Sophie Ridge on Sunday.
28:02Sophy Ridge:First Sophie Ridge on Sunday, yeah.
28:04Rachel Johnson:And so you've got the big sit down interview with, was she PM? She was Prime Minister, yeah.
28:09Sophy Ridge:Go on. Yeah. And I mean, it's it's the risk that we took was that we said it was around the time of Donald Trump. And it was just after he'd made the comment of saying, grab them by the pussy, talk about women. And I made the deliberate decision to read the full quote out to Theresa May. So basically said the web pussy in front of her. And this was not, for me, was absolutely not about shock journalism or gotcha. It was about not being able to really fully express the kind of violent language that was used there. Unless you read the quote, right? I kind of think sometimes we're just too timid about this stuff.
28:51You know, we have to give people the full picture.
28:53Sophy Ridge:But yeah, they weren't that happy with me, I have to say afterwards. No, they weren't.
28:57Rachel Johnson:So what was her reaction when you read out the quote? So she was actually fine. she didn't react she had the
29:04Sophy Ridge:complete stony face what you needed was a reaction yeah but she answered it quite well I thought actually she came out very strongly you know saying that she didn't think it was right blah blah blah but yeah afterwards number 10 I think they banned us from guests for like three months or something so they weren't very happy about it
29:22Rachel Johnson:so there you are this is your first you know you're doing you're solo hosting a Sunday show and I think you are the sort of first solo female anchor on British television, especially for election night. That's what you're famous for. And you've got to get some lines out of this interview because, you know, she's doing you. It's your first week. What were the news lines? I mean, do you remember? And when things aren't going well, does your body, do you manage to remain very calm or do you get that kind of clum? I start feeling panic prickle up the back of my neck. Oh, yeah. What do you get?
30:03Sophy Ridge:Yeah, you get the... I think it's just you feel the adrenaline. You can feel the adrenaline. That's what I feel. So you kind of feel everything is heightened and your body kind of tensers up a bit. So I think it is the literal adrenaline that you can feel, actually, which is probably a good thing in some ways, right, because you're kind of ready for battle and all that kind of stuff. And you're on talkback. Have you got your producer saying,
30:25Rachel Johnson:ask her about this, ask her about that?
30:27Sophy Ridge:Yeah, I mean, look, We gamed that interview out big time. So I worked on that with my amazing team a lot. You know, I had people at my, you know, for those big interviews, we'd have someone playing the role of the prime minister. We spent a lot of time gaming out interviews. If she says this, we should go that way. If she says that, we can take it. So it was a very, very meticulously planned interview. There was a lot of work that went into it.
30:53Rachel Johnson:She's obviously not your dream interviewee, but you must have if you had to have sort of two or three who would they be that you haven't got to yet that's a great wilf by the way well i'll give you time your co-host always says xi jinping he always says this like come on just let's bring the changes will i know i would say putin oh putin
31:14Sophy Ridge:would be amazing wouldn't he i'd also love to interview donald trump yeah i mean i i think Like, you've got to go to Donald Trump.
31:22Rachel Johnson:Like, really. He would love you. If you're coming, he loves Bev Turner at the moment. How can we replace you with Bev, with you in his affections? There's got to be a way in. Surely. Surely. I think he just has to take one look at you. I think we can make this happen. OK, let's do it. This is the aim. Let's aim high. Role models, before we get to the difficult question. I mean, you've said in the past Kay Burley. I have to say when I look I'm mad I think Kay's a one off and she's been a huge trailblazer did you sort of feel as a Sky woman you had to say Kay Burley?
31:59Sophy Ridge:No I didn't actually I mean Kay is a force She is a force Kay is Kay Kay is Kay and I do kind of admire it you know Honestly no fucks given No that's it and you know what She did. I do genuinely think she blazed a trail for women in TV. Right. You know, she was doing it at a time where there were not many women doing it.
32:22Rachel Johnson:But why has she gone? You know, we've got to talk about ageism because in our industry, men can be 99 and still be on fronting a primetime show on BBC One. They can be in their 80s and anchoring election coverage. When will we be able to say the same about women?
32:44Sophy Ridge:Well, hopefully we are getting better at this stuff, right? We are. I do think we are. But I do totally take your point. And it is something that, like, you know, we have to all be kind of aware of. You know, we're talking about the grooming thing, right?
32:58Rachel Johnson:But you also have to look 10 years younger than you are.
33:00Sophy Ridge:Yeah. That's such an effort. It is a massive effort. It's kind of annoying, actually.
33:05Rachel Johnson:Whereas men, the older they look, you know, the more they're revered. Yeah. And promoted.
33:09Sophy Ridge:Yeah, it's the time it all takes as well. It's so boring. It's boring.
33:17Rachel Johnson:It's the fourth bridge all every day.
33:20Sophy Ridge:Yeah. I mean, I should say on Kay specifically, I really don't know the ins and outs of what went on, to be honest, kind of above my pay grade. But I've got massive respect for her. And I really think she's going to...
33:34Rachel Johnson:You're a very different animal from Kay. Oh, yeah, I am. Because she's a Rottweiler. There's no question. And you're not. You're much more, but you are still, you know, canine. You know, you're maybe more a Labrador. What sort of dog would I be? You're more adult than Labrador. I'll take that. That's nice. I like that. But also you've said that it's, you know, you don't have to Paxman every interview. Yeah, yeah. And I'm more like you because I think it's so scary to sit with someone and ask them a question you know they're not going to answer. Yeah. Or they don't want to hear.
34:07Sophy Ridge:Yeah, I think that's it. And also the thing that I've realised about interviewing is firstly, you just have to be yourself. You've got to be your authentic self on TV. People can see through straight away if you're putting on an act. So it's not even like, you know, you just got to be authentic. I think it's really important. And then the second thing I'd say is that if you ask quite rude questions in a polite tone, no one realises.
34:34Rachel Johnson:then they just think yeah i know you're smiling i know she's so nice she just asked that really killer question i wish we had longer but we've got we've got to stop now and so i've got to ask you when have you had to be most difficult if ever sophie ridge oh when have i had to be most difficult that's a good question or when do you want to do a difficult time because i'm sure people would love to hear about a time which when you've had to struggle the difficult time that i would
35:02Sophy Ridge:say came at a time when i had my kind of biggest break on the kind of sophie ridge on sunday program because all i felt which i think lots of women probably feel that all these great opportunities in my career came at a time when i was starting the family right so they gave me the job um when i was i was probably like a few weeks pregnant right and i was like oh do i tell them do I not tell them and then you know obviously because it was so early you don't so I waited but I was nervous about I was nervous about telling them because I was like you know they're just taking this massive punt on me and I'm gonna have to go off on maternity leave they were amazing about it I should say they were brilliant about it and that made a huge difference but yeah my first show I remember like having morning sickness and being like throwing up in the toilet before it all that kind of stuff so I think that was probably my most sort of difficult time actually but you know what i kind of look back and i did feel very supported and that made a you know that made all the difference because you have got all these kind of doubts going in and all that kind of stuff going in and it's a classic thing for women that just when you feel you're kind of hitting your stride family comes over it's biology you know it's one of these immovables in
36:16Rachel Johnson:our lives yeah i think what what i would say about your um that experience you had at sky because it hits just at the time that you're supposed to be making your strides in your career. You're also supposed to be making babies, right? And that's the problem that women have and that's not going to go away. But I think the lesson, the takeaway for anyone listening who is an employer is this, stand by your talent. Yeah. They will come back. Yeah, it's totally right.
36:44Sophy Ridge:And I felt much more loyal to my company after having that positive experience. Like I really did. And you feel more invested in it and all that kind of stuff as well.
36:55Rachel Johnson:On that happy note, Sophie Ridge, thank you for being this week's Difficult Woman. It's been such a pleasure. And tell everyone when your show is on. Oh, yes.
37:02Sophy Ridge:I'm going to get in trouble if I get this. No, no, we'll keep this bit in. Don't worry. It's going to be the first week of November, Monday, the 3rd of November, 7 till 10am. And I should say, if I'm allowed to, we're doing a podcast as well, Cheat Sheet, which is 10 minutes. Very different to yours. It's OK. 10 minutes, all the news you need to know. 6am. I'm there. Nick Ferrari.
37:23Rachel Johnson:Watch your back. I love you, Nick. I love you, Nick, too. Bye.
37:39Rachel Johnson:We had such fun that I didn't even ask her about her family, husband and children. Maybe next time. Thank you for listening to another episode of my Difficult Women podcast. Not that Sophie Ridge is at all difficult. just remember to download and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts to make sure the latest episode is ready to go every Friday afternoon bye
38:21Thank you.
From the publisher
In this week's episode Rachel sits down with Sophy Ridge, an immensely talented Sky news presenter who achieved great success from early on in her career. She entered Westminster as a reporter for The News of the World at just 24 years old and was given her own Sky News show, Sophy Ridge on Sunday at 32.
Sophy is not a very difficult woman. Rachel observes that she is ‘more golden retriever than rottweiler’ unlike some political hosts. She is very accustomed to interviewing tricky women however. On the debut episode of Sophy Ridge on Sunday she secured an exclusive interview with Theresa May when she was Prime Minister, a notoriously challenging interviewee. In this episode, Sophy shares how she defied expectations and carved out a dazzling career in journalism whilst remaining warm and sincere throughout.