Bonus: Wild Animal Dads from Terrestrials

9:05Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:He teaches him how to curl up into a tiny ball way up high in the tree so he looks almost invisible, so he can sleep during the day. Sweet daydreams, little one. And as the baby grows up, Dad starts teaching him how to pick out tasty fruits, which fruits to bite into, which to avoid. That one tastes gross. How to catch a moth midair. Nice job! But pretty much this whole time, the baby's little arms are wrapped around the dad's shoulders, meaning this is a three-month-long piggyback ride.

9:37Michael Feigelson:Or should I call it a monkeyback ride?

9:40Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Now, around four months, the baby climbs off the piggyback ride and starts braving the big leaps up in the branches by itself. Unless...

9:48Michael Feigelson:Suddenly you get to a gap between branches and you need to take a jump. And so they may give you a little bit of a squeak or a squeal. And dad says, OK, hold on a minute. I'm going to put you on my back and take him across the gap. I got you, little one. What is very powerful is the evidence we have that eventually over the years, the infant seems to have a stronger attachment or bond to the father than the mother.

10:14Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Wow.

10:17Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:So as Eduardo and his team are discovering all the secrets of the owl monkey dad, halfway across the globe, living in Switzerland at the time, our other human dad, Michael, he's becoming a father. Yeah. And while he is completely obsessed with his new daughter, Mila, completely in love with her, He says he wasn't sure exactly what to do with her, how to soothe her, bathe her.

10:47Michael Feigelson:I was, I didn't grow up sort of being super comfortable expressing my emotions or super comfortable with physical touch.

11:00Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:And so at first with this baby in his arms, he just felt a little awkward or unnatural, which felt in this weird way like maybe the natural way for a dad to feel.

11:13Michael Feigelson:There was this story about what's natural, you know, what's natural for the mom, for the dad, for the family. And we did have in my education a lot of comparisons to animals, but usually we were being compared to chimpanzees.

11:28Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Growing up, Michael was told that since humans were closely related to chimps through evolution, we're both primates, we share a common ancestor, then some of the things chimps do might somehow be inside us as instincts, too. And chimp dads, well, at the time Michael was growing up, they were understood to be very aggressive at their worst. And at their best, well, they were just off somewhere else. It seemed like in nature, the dad role?

11:54Michael Feigelson:It was about hunting and protection.

11:56Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:And he thought, well, maybe nature was sending him a message that he'd never be good at the softer side of parenting. And then one day, a few years ago, Michael is lamenting about all this, what a dad's natural role truly is when his friend says, wait, wait, wait, you got to call Dr. Eduardo.

12:15Michael Feigelson:He studies owl monkeys. And I reached out to him and he was like, I'll come over. I'll come over to your house. Let's have a play date, basically. Really? Okay, that's awesome. come to my house. He fell like that. Yeah. So he came over and we're like, let's go swimming. And I brought my goggles. He's a really good swimmer, by the way. Okay. Really fast. We kept talking about all sorts of different dads.

12:40Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Chimp dads and their own dads.

12:45Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:And at some point, Dr. Eduardo started telling Michael what he had observed with owl monkey dads.

12:51Michael Feigelson:He's talking about a two to three month piggyback ride.

12:55Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Your guys are at your play date. I'm picturing you, you're swimming in the waves. And like, I don't know, Eduardo's like, no, Michael. And then a wave comes. He's like, no, no, no, really? Owl monkeys are amazing. Dads. Okay, so what from your side, Michael, what did you, what did Eduardo tell you that day? And how did it hit you?

13:15Michael Feigelson:Well, first I was like, that's so cute. And then at the same time, I was kind of upset. Why? Well, I was like, why am I hearing about this for the first time? And so I was sort of like, who picked which monkey we were going to be compared to? And why did they pick chimpanzees? Because if they had picked the owl monkeys, you know, maybe I would have learned something different. So I found myself kind of wanting to dig into sort of what other animals are out there that might do fathering differently.

13:55Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:And he will share what he finds and take us on some of the wildest turns in this dad venture after this short break.

14:13Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:One Bank Guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep. Even on weekends. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash Bank Guy. Capital One and a member FDIC.

14:36Michael Feigelson:Radiolab is supported by AT &T. Summer is great for many reasons. The best reason, our plans we made finally making it out of the group chat because there's more time to fit everyone in. Whatever you've got in store this summer, capturing those memories is a must. And AT &T has your summer essential in the iPhone 17 Pro. Its center stage front camera auto adjusts the frame to fit everyone into group selfies. You don't even have to turn your phone. No awkward cropping or asking strangers to take it. Just the perfect group selfie every time. And AT &T makes sharing those moments with everyone easy because you got to share the pic or it didn't happen, Right now at AT &T, ask how you can get an iPhone 17 Pro on them with eligible trade-in, requires eligible plan, terms and restrictions apply, subject to change.

15:20Michael Feigelson:Visit AT &T.com slash iPhone or visit an AT &T store for details. Radiolab is supported by Strawberry.me. As a Radiolab listener, chances are you're a curious person who asks how things work and why people do what they do, trying to make sense of the world around you. But what about turning that same curiosity inward, especially when it comes to your work? Because so many people know what it feels like to show up every day, get through the to-do list, and still wonder things like, is this what I really want? Could this be different? Maybe you felt stuck or restless or just quietly ready for something more but aren't sure what that looks like or how to get there.

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17:23Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Terrestrials is back. We are talking about the raddest of the daddest with our dad friend, Michael, and he is on a quest to learn all about animal dads who defy the stereotypes and show us all the amazing ways a dad can dad. And to start off, we have...

17:36Michael Feigelson:Seahorses! The seahorses is the one that everybody knows.

17:40Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Okay, but tell it.

17:41Michael Feigelson:But it's important because the dads get pregnant.

17:45Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:So what does that mean? They really, what does that mean?

17:48Michael Feigelson:He does, like, the dance, the courtship dance, And then the female will put her eggs into a pouch in the male seahorse's belly. And the pouch is kind of like a magical pouch. It will change the levels of oxygen and salt. And it's kind of like a womb, you know, getting them ready to go out into the ocean. And they're pregnant for, I think, a couple weeks. And then the dad seahorse goes into labor and it could take a few hours. And they just shoot out hundreds of baby seahorses, all like fully formed, but really tiny. And then they can get pregnant again a few days later.

18:33Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Wow. Just right off the bat, there goes nature shattering another rule. Like those hard lines we thought existed between what a mom is supposed to do and a dad's supposed to do. Like the two categories, they just aren't there.

18:48Michael Feigelson:There's so many different ways to be a dad. There's a lot of options. And we're flexible and we can organize and be whatever it is that our kids need. That in and of itself is natural, that that is something you find in nature. Okay.

19:13Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Who is our next dad?

19:15Michael Feigelson:I got totally obsessed with poison dart frogs.

19:18Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Poison dart frogs! Okay, what are these?

19:21Michael Feigelson:So they live in that rainforest in South America.

19:24Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Do they shoot poison darts?

19:26Michael Feigelson:So they're called poison dart frogs because people have used venom that comes from them to make poison tips on arrows. Oh, cool. And they're the size of like your thumbnail. Oh, tiny. Tiny little frogs. And they're singers. Well, they chirp, right? Okay. To kind of claim like a territory. And the females will listen to them chirping to see like who's the best singer to decide where they want to lay their eggs. And I swear by the moon and the stars in the sky, I'll be there chirping. And so the females will lay the eggs on wet leaves on the forest floor. And then the dads will guard them. And this is the best part.

20:09Michael Feigelson:when they hatch, the dad will take each tadpole individually on a piggyback ride. What? So on his back.

20:17Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Just like the owl monkey.

20:19Michael Feigelson:Each one individually and go and find a plant that sort of has some covering and has some water inside. Yeah. And it'll lay the tadpole in there so that it's safe and it has water.

20:34Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Like in a pool, a little kiddie pool. Here, kiddo, take a swim.

20:39Michael Feigelson:But he won't put any of them together because he doesn't want them to compete for resources. And I think he also doesn't want if one's born, it comes up to eat the other one. And then coming back and checking on them all the time to make sure there's enough water. And if they need to eat, the dads, they can't feed the tadpoles. Sorry, little froggies. Only mommy can feed you by laying one of her eggs for you to eat. So they'll do their song again to try and persuade if there's a female in the area to come and feed them a little bit more. Remember, they're the size of your thumbnail. Yeah, teensy.

21:16Michael Feigelson:And they're like journeying with these tadpole babies all over, placing them, coming back, checking on them. And they're so cute.

21:23Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Like playing music to like lure food back. Like, wow, that is a toad-ally awesome father. Next up, another contender from Frogland. The Darwin Frog. Found in the forests of Argentina in Chile.

21:40Michael Feigelson:They also guard the eggs like the poison dart frogs. But then they do this really funny thing. They put them in their mouth. They swallow them. No.

21:49Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Wait, like the tadpoles or the eggs?

21:51Michael Feigelson:They swallow the eggs and then they store them in a vocal sack in their throat because it's safer, right? It's safer in there. And then inside this pouch in their throat, they grow and they're protected. The father eats a bit less. He stops calling around so much because he doesn't want to draw attention.

22:12Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Oh, you can't sing because otherwise you're like, oh, look at my baby.

22:15Michael Feigelson:And then, but then, and then, then like the big reveal is when they're sort of ready to go out on their own. They just walk out of their dad's mouth into the world.

22:26Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Come on, pups. They're literally taking refuge in him. Yeah. Wow. That is talking about biting off more than you could chew. That's a big fatherly commitment. Yeah. Next up, father number four. The burying beetles.

22:42Michael Feigelson:Okay, so burying beetles, also tiny little beetles.

22:45Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Okay, and bury, we're not talking like blueberries. You mean burying.

22:48Michael Feigelson:No, like burying underground. Like burying underground because they find a small animal like a mouse or a bird that's dead. They will team up with a mom.

22:58Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Okay.

22:59Michael Feigelson:And they'll bury it underground.

23:01Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:The dead, the corpse. The carcass. Okay, this sounds pretty gross. Okay.

23:05Michael Feigelson:It is gross, but it's also really cool. Okay. Full of love. They'll clean it. They'll get rid of debris, and they'll shape it. And they turn it. Okay, wait.

23:14Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:So I'm picturing, okay, let's just go with a mouse. So like a dead mouse, they clean it, meaning like they eat all the dead meat and fur.

23:21Michael Feigelson:Hold on.

23:21Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Or they get it off.

23:22Michael Feigelson:I have a picture too.

23:24Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Wait, what am I looking at?

23:25Michael Feigelson:It was a mouse. It's going to be a nursery.

23:29Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Wait. A corpse, a skeleton crib? A skeleton nursery.

23:33Michael Feigelson:No, it's not just a skeleton because it's also going to be a source of food. It's going to be like an edible nursery.

23:40Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Okay, so it's a corpse nursery. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

23:41Michael Feigelson:So it's like a corpse nursery. It's a corpse crib. Exactly. It's the corpse crib, but not so scary because they coat it with this antimicrobial secretion. Oh, because dead meat has lots of bacteria. And the antimicrobial secretion, I looked this up just for terrestrials, it comes from their mouth and from their butt. Show that you care with antibacterial spray from your derriere. Don't try this at home. Don't try this at home.

24:15Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:They find a dead body. They like mush the dead flesh around so that it becomes shaped like a crib. They disinfect it. And then what do they do?

24:24Michael Feigelson:The babies hatch, the larvae hatch. And they can hang out in there, but they can't yet eat themselves. So the dad will do this thing that you see with birds, like chew it and then feed them from it.

24:40Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Once again, the it is dead flesh.

24:42Michael Feigelson:Yeah.

24:42Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:So he like baby birds some dead flesh from the walls of the crib.

24:46Michael Feigelson:Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

24:48Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Into its both so sweet. Happy Father's Day.

24:51Michael Feigelson:And, and, and they'll defend their kids from animals that could be like a hundred times bigger, like a mouse. Like there's no chance, right, that they're going to be able to do it. One of the ways that they do this is they have this nasty smelling chemical that they can make in the glands of their butt again. Like a skunk.

25:12Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:It's like an insect skunk.

25:13Michael Feigelson:Yeah, yeah. And then the last part of this, and very relevant for a conversation, sometimes the mom, the mom will just wander off. And if the mom just wanders off, the dad will raise the whole family by himself, which is like 10, 20, 30 babies per brood. So like some serious, heavy single fathering goes on here.

25:36Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Whoa. Okay, moving on to dad numero cinco. The chip. Wait, what? Wasn't the chimp the whole symbol of the mean dad?

25:47Michael Feigelson:Let's just end. Not all chimp dads are mean dads.

25:52Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:So in recent years, scientists observing chimps in the wild, in the forests of Tanzania, have discovered that chimp fathers are not always as aggressive or gnarly or absent as we thought. But there is no one way that a male chimp parents. It depends on the individual. Some of those dads groom and cuddle their babies and on rare occasions have even been observed taking in a baby that isn't theirs. That's way better than our first chimp-pression of them. All right, next up, a feathery father fellow. Say that ten times fast. A feathery father fellow. A feathery father fellow. A feathery father fellow.

26:30Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:A feathery father fellow. Jakana!

26:34Michael Feigelson:Jakana is a waiting bird. about the size of a chicken.

26:39Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Waiting, meaning it likes water?

26:40Michael Feigelson:Yes, yes. Okay. And so the jacanas, what happens is that moms are looking around and they go shopping for a potential dad that's going to take good care of the eggs. Oh. So the females are fighting for the attention of a male who's going to take good care of the eggs she lays. Wow. So she finds a spot, she lays the eggs, And so the male is going to sit with the ex and incubate them and protect them until the ex hatch.

27:12Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:And mom isn't incubating at all?

27:15Michael Feigelson:I don't think mom incubates.

27:17Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Oh, gosh, I don't know why it's so hard for me to picture a dad incubating all on his own. It's like proof of how strong my miseducation has been. Like these beliefs about dad and mom are even in our language. Because we say things like, oh, she's a mother hen. It's a part of our language.

27:34Michael Feigelson:Mother nature.

27:35Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Yeah, Mother Nature. Wow. Does that hurt your feelings as men?

27:42Michael Feigelson:No, it doesn't hurt my feelings, but I think that there's a father nature as much as there's a mother nature.

27:49Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Oh, I like that. Okay, now speaking of father hen types nesting dads, it is time now for our sixth and final dad. Don't poo-poo this papa to meet the top of the pops. We gotta go down deep to give props. The stickleback fish. Okay, this to me looks like a tiny stegosaurus of a fish with sharp spikes running down its back.

28:14Michael Feigelson:And that's why it's called stickleback, I think.

28:16Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Okay.

28:17Michael Feigelson:So they're known as underwater architects. So they build nests on the bottom of a pond or stream also to get the moms to want to lay eggs. And they use bits of plants that they glue together with a sticky substance that is called spiggin.

28:37Michael Feigelson:It's made out of protein-based mucus. Okay. And so they build these nests, and then they do these zigzag dances. Like, they do dances when they see a female with a belly full of eggs to try and get her to lay the eggs in the nest. And then she goes, and the dad will take care of them and sort of take them the rest of the way.

29:00Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Wow. Wow. I just pulled up a picture of the nest because I was trying to picture it because, like, I usually think of a fish nest as just like a little smoothed out bit of sand. But this is, this has architecture. It looks almost like a bird's nest up on its side. Yeah. It's clearly arranged with so much care. And I don't know, it just makes me think back to all your worries that started this thing, Michael, that dads don't do the nesting or the cozying or the softer parts. And it's just like, here's another one, yet another creature where the dad is doing that.

29:30Michael Feigelson:Can I jump in, Eduardo? Yeah, go ahead. There was this study by another colleague.

29:35Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Michael says that all kinds of scientists have been trying to understand where a parent's caretaking behavior, where it comes from. Like, is it an old part of us or something that's new and involves lots of complex thought in the brain? And they're finding some pretty neat stuff. Like, there was one experiment that took dads and watched.

29:55Michael Feigelson:How their brain activates when they see and play with their baby. And? You would see activation in the really old parts of our brain.

30:07Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:And another scientist?

30:09Michael Feigelson:Called Kumi Kuroda. And she was trying to isolate what part of the brain was responsible for nesting behavior. And she had concluded that the first sort of parental instinct, the first nesting behavior, was male fish millions of years ago.

30:27Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Whoa. Fish, of course, are who we came from. Mammals descended from fish hundreds of millions of years ago.

30:37Michael Feigelson:And it was only then when we came on land and, you know, had the babies outside the body and had to breastfeed that these other parts came in. But one of the big lessons of all of this was, you know, get in touch with your inner fish. We all have that kind of biology and it's really, really old. It's deep. Yeah.

30:58Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Has learning about all these different ways that dads show care in the animal world, has it changed you in any way?

31:06Michael Feigelson:The sort of joke I've been making is it's a kind of new take on dad bod. Like we're actually incredibly flexible and capable of connecting in a profound way. Like we can do this and our bodies, our brains are made for this actually.

31:42Michael Feigelson:of all different species and every location. The dad delegation is sweeping the nation. Deep in their mind these dads are going primal. The love and care they share with their child is wild.

32:00Michael Feigelson:I'm talking about... They're singing off-key. They don't really care. They're clapping off-beat. They're baking desserts. They're mowing the lawn They're braiding your hair They're dancing along If their back doesn't hurt Give it up for dads Come in all shapes and sizes They're full of surprises When a kindness arises They don't try to fight it Of all different species From monkeys to fish Are loving and cuddling They hug and they kiss Tatties who care are everywhere It's true So let's do this one more time with a dad-itude I'm talking about dads All kinds of dads We're mad about dads So cancel your plans and celebrate So cancel your plans and celebrate Dads

33:00Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Alan, go Finsky, everyone, and that's it. Nothing else cool about dads What's that? Excuse me, I have a question Me two

33:08Michael Feigelson:Me three Me four

33:09Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:The Badgers. Listeners with badgering questions for our expert. Eduardo, you ready? Yeah, absolutely.

33:16Michael Feigelson:Hi, my name is Emerson. I'm seven years old. My question is, who would win in a fight? An owl monkey or an owl owl? Oh, gee, I think an owl owl. I would be scared of an owl grabbing the owl monkey with its feet and claws, yeah? I put my money with an owl owl.

33:35Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Well, with that scientific recommendation, I would put owl my money with an owl owl, too.

33:40Michael Feigelson:Hi, I'm Cassidy. I'm nine years old. My question is, have you ever hugged an owl monkey? Full disclosure. It was back in the day when we're allowed to do these things.

33:53Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Uh-huh.

33:53Michael Feigelson:20, 25 years ago. Yes, I've had them in my arms and hold them.

33:57Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:But what did it feel like?

33:58Michael Feigelson:It moves you. I mean, you're handling these animals. You want them to do well. You're releasing them into the forest again. So it's a very nice feeling. My name is Lucian, I'm five years old, and my question is, can owl monkeys go onto the top of your roof somehow? Of course. In fact, some people told me when I started working with owl monkeys, they were showing me the roof of their houses and they said, can you see how clean they are? There are no spider webs. Well, that's because owl monkeys do come on the roof and they like insects and they eat them and they do the job for us of keeping our roof clean.

34:41Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Now that's the monkey business I can get behind.

34:45Michael Feigelson:Hey, I'm Tobin and I'm Lucy's dad. Why are owl monkey toes so long? Because that's very important if you're walking around in relatively thin branches. That's for the same reason that them, like us, have what we call the opposable thumb. It really helps your gripping of the branches along which you walk. Hello, my name is Parker. I'm five years old. Do owl monkeys see anything different with their orange eyes?

35:14Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Ooh, I love that. What would the world look like through an owl monkey's eyes?

35:19Michael Feigelson:Black and white, for one. Not in color.

35:22Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Okay.

35:22Michael Feigelson:And we would have very detailed skills to detect the variation of the black and white. I mean, the hues, the gradient.

35:31Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:And what about at nighttime?

35:33Michael Feigelson:They see better than us. They see better than us because of specific cells of the eyes.

35:38Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:But Eduardo says we humans can see better in the dark than you might think.

35:42Michael Feigelson:Get out. Get out on a night of a full moon. give yourself 10 minutes without light and bring a book. And if you have a full moon and you allow yourself 10 minutes, you'll be reading the book. Interesting. Call me if you cannot. I bet you that you'll do it. You can read a book, no problems. But you have to let your eyes adjust.

36:04Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:I'm going to try this. There's actually a full moon in a couple of days. There you go. Okay, test, test. It is a very full moon. I'm sitting, you can maybe hear the waves of Lake Michigan. I'm sitting right near the lake in this dark park where there are no streetlights. And I'm going to do the test. Ten minutes later, I opened up my son's copy of Wild Robot to a random page. If I really look, I can almost get words. It's like somebody grinned.

36:45Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Kumpink grinned. I can't quite. Definitely got better. Dr. Eduardo was right. It got impressively better, my eyesight in 10 minutes, but I can't quite get there. Here's what might be messing with the experiment. Number one, there's some clouds in front of the moon. and number two, I'm getting older and my eyesight has actually started to get worse and I don't have glasses. So I don't know. If you guys try this on a full moon, see if you can read even more. And I think that's where we're going to leave it with a little bit of real life experimentation. Learning owl about owl monkeys has been a real hoot.

37:25Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:And I won't tell you about barking tree frog dads who prevent their egg clusters from getting too dry by dousing them with urine. I won't tell you that. Because I'm nice. Terrestrials was created by me, Lulu Miller, with WNYC Studios. This episode was produced by Tanya Chawla, with sound design by Mira Birtwin-Tonic. Sarah Sambac is our executive producer. Our team also includes Ellen Kofinski, Ana Gonzalez, Joe Plort, and Natalia Ramirez. A fact-checking by Anjali Mercado. With additional editorial advising by Cassius Adair. And big special thanks to our dads, Michael and Eduardo. They actually organized a conference all about dads in the animal world and the human world over at Yale.

38:05Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:That was called Fathers and Fatherhood, From Molecules to Modern Families. And that's where Michael learned all about dads in the animal world. And they recently participated in another conference on dads in Brazil. And I guarantee you they're going to organize or participate in another one. So if you are interested in dads in the animal world and are evolving understanding of dads in the human world, keep an eye on the project Early Childhood Matters. That's earlychildhoodmatters.online. Support for terrestrials is provided by the Simons Foundation, the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations, and the Templeton Foundation.

38:39Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Thank you. And you, in honor of Father's Day, go show some love on the father figures in your life, whoever it is that tells the best dad jokes, aka the worst jokes in your life. And if you are making a Father's Day card, here is some inspiration from listener Emmy, age nine. She drew a picture of a toucan holding up a foam finger that says number one and the toucan is saying, toucan do it. And inside the card it says, together we can wing it. I love that because isn't that all we're all trying to do here together? Just get through as best we can together. Okay, finally, preview. Our next episode is all about King Cobras.

39:23Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:And we want to know, what would you draw for the episode art? What would be your episode poster of a King Cobra? Send it to us at... T-E-R-R-E-S-T-R-I-A-L-S-T-W-N-Y-C-dot-org. Or if you want to draw the thing and send it in the real mail to us, the snail mail the old school way, just put it in an envelope, throw a stamp on there, and send it to Terrestrials Team, WNYC Radio, 160 Varick Street, New York, New York, 10013. We love getting mail, that's all. See you in a couple spins of this dirty old planet of ours. Bye.

40:30Dr. Eduardo Fernandez-Duque:Fortuna, David Gable, Maria Paz Gutierrez, Simdu Nain Asambandan, Matt Keelty, Mona Maudgaoka, Annie McEwan, Alex Neeson, Sarah Kari, Natalia Ramirez, Rebecca Rand, Joanna Strogatz, Anissa Vietza, Arian Wack, Molly Webster, and Jessica Young. With help from Gabby Santos and Maya Appleby-Mulamid. Our fact checkers are Diane Kelly, Emily Krieger, Natalie Middleton, Anjali Mercado and Sophie Samai.

41:05Michael Feigelson:Hey Radiolab, Michael, Tacoma, Washington. Leadership support for Radiolab science programming is provided by the Simons Foundation and the John Templeton Foundation. Foundational support for Radiolab was provided by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.