In short
“Adaptive revealing” for kids and parents—how to balance oversharing (too much, too soon) with undersharing (too little), using strategic vulnerability, emotional literacy, and context/timing to build intimacy and relationships.
Guest
Professor Leslie John (Harvard Business School), behavioral science researcher and author of Revealing. She studies how making people feel safe and relational increases sharing, and how revealing skills affect both relationships and professional success. She discusses translating her work to children and adolescents.
Key claims
- Oversharing and undersharing are both problems; people are often never taught how to reveal appropriately.
- Revealing is a skill built through awareness, practice, and reflection—not a one-time “content” decision.
- Emotional literacy is required for effective disclosure; kids need help identifying feelings (e.g., using an emotions wheel).
- Timing/context matter more than “what” you share; share hard feelings when the other person can handle it.
Notable examples
- “Disclosure audit” (said vs unsaid) showing missed opportunities (e.g., not telling a partner you slept poorly).
- Preschool stress study: children who suppress expression show higher physiological stress; boys more likely to hold back by kindergarten.
- Parent example: telling a child “I’m stressed about a deadline” to prevent kids from misreading frustration as “something wrong with them.”
- Divorce disclosure approach: explain “we’re not going to be married anymore, but we’ll still be a family,” avoid pressuring questions.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOUnderstanding Adaptive Revealing
0:46 to 2:59
Discussing the importance of teaching disclosure skills to children and the challenges involved.
“Being a good revealer is so highly linked with emotional literacy and connection and relationships and even good relationships with teachers.”
The Balance of Sharing
3:00 to 5:15
Exploring the issues of oversharing and undersharing, and the need for balance in relationships.
“And this is where, like, it's a perfect match because your expertise, you can, like, put boundaries on what I'm saying and ask the questions and describe.”
Awareness as the First Step
5:16 to 7:00
Discussing the importance of awareness in the process of revealing and sharing experiences.
“I think one level that I to answer it at is thinking about the advent of social media.”
Evaluating Relationships for Sharing
7:01 to 7:27
Strategies for assessing how much to reveal based on relationship intimacy.
“there are some people for whom it's quite natural and other people, no one taught them the skill.”
Teaching Kids the Skill of Revealing
7:28 to 13:21
How to guide children in developing their skills for disclosing appropriately.
“how can we develop this skill in our kids and distinguish between oversharing and the adaptive revealing.”
Teaching Emotional Expression to Kids
14:02 to 16:04
Learn how to nurture emotional expression in children and its importance.
“And I think this is where it could be incredibly beneficial because not, I mean, I think there are some very talented people and you tell me what you found.”
The Science Behind Emotional Sharing
16:04 to 18:24
Discover research on how children express emotions and its impact on stress.
“And so maybe it might be I'm swinging the pendulum in the opposite, like too much because I'm, how do you feel?”
Balancing Parental Emotions and Child Awareness
18:24 to 21:54
Explore how to appropriately share parental emotions with children.
“the difference between like the shades of anger, like that there's rage, frustration, like I'm only and if it would be amazing if my children could do this from a young age.”
Navigating Divorce Conversations with Kids
21:54 to 27:06
Understand effective ways to discuss divorce and family changes with children.
“I think it's like we think that hiding is protecting.”
The Complexity of Teen Disclosure
28:20 to 29:30
Exploring how teens share their lives and feelings both in real life and on social media.
“I'm not revealing anything on social media.”
Show all 29 chapters
Generational Differences in Sharing
29:30 to 30:40
Discussing how different generations perceive sharing personal experiences and emotions.
“But that's quite different for even millennials and Gen Z.”
The Challenge of Positive Self-Expression
30:40 to 31:50
Understanding the societal pressures surrounding positive self-expression and how it varies among individuals.
“Like who is this strange alien who can do this?”
Parent-Child Interaction Therapy Insights
31:50 to 33:10
Insights into Parent-Child Interaction Therapy (PCIT) and its emphasis on praise and positive reinforcement.
“So praise is interesting because I think that praise is something that we massively undershare.”
The Importance of Notice and Praise
33:10 to 34:20
The significance of noticing and praising children's positive behaviors in parenting.
“Yeah, I think what's interesting about it is that it very much leans into positive and specific noticing and praise.”
Navigating Praise and Emotional Regulation
34:20 to 36:50
How to effectively praise children while promoting emotional regulation and authenticity.
“I think there's like a camp of people talking about parenting where it's like, I'm not looking for compliant kids.”
Building Connection Through Focused Attention
36:50 to 38:10
Discussing the power of focused attention and quality time in building connections with children.
“And so I think that, yeah, you can maybe that's that's something I take home.”
Encouraging Open Communication with Teens
38:10 to 40:00
Strategies for fostering open communication and emotional intelligence in teenagers.
“Anyways, I digress on the praise, but praise also enables you.”
Social Anxiety and Friendship Skills
40:00 to 42:05
Addressing social anxiety in adolescents and providing tools for forming friendships.
“I also think coming back to the point, so the question of how school age children, teens, how do we help them develop the skill of revealing wisely and help them?”
Navigating Social Anxiety and Making Friends
42:05 to 44:00
Learn how to overcome social anxiety and build connections through curiosity.
“Okay, so one thing I think that would translate is if you think of like forming friends and and how that can be really hard for anyone.”
The Importance of Disclosure and Authenticity
44:00 to 46:00
Understand how genuine curiosity fosters deeper connections and communication.
“So even knowing that questions aren't annoying, they're usually received well.”
Gender Differences in Communication and Disclosure
46:00 to 48:00
Explore how societal expectations influence communication styles between genders.
“The stuff that is most differentiating from AI is the stuff we should get really good at.”
The Balance Between Warmth and Competence
48:00 to 50:20
Discover how to balance warmth and assertiveness to be both liked and respected.
“beautiful women share to men, the men like are like in awe, but I don't know if it's more liking or just if it's like, I want to be in their pants or like actual respect.”
Effective Feedback and Listening Techniques
50:20 to 53:00
Learn how to give constructive feedback through active listening and curiosity.
“and that's how they coded me ever since.”
Modulating Disclosure Based on Status
53:00 to 56:00
Understand how to adjust your level of disclosure based on social status dynamics.
“listen and I'm genuinely interested because I'm, again, I'm curious, like what were the things?”
Understanding Disclosure in Leadership
56:00 to 56:11
Learn how leaders can build trust through strategic self-disclosure.
“When just saying, hey, I can take this, be honest, people like.”
The Importance of Status Dynamics
56:11 to 56:42
Explore how status affects communication and self-disclosure in various settings.
“And then we have found in our research, too, that when leaders in when they, you know, in a metered way, reveal some of their weaknesses or things they're working on to their teams, their teams trust them more.”
Transparency vs. Vulnerability
56:42 to 57:51
Discover the differences between transparency and vulnerability in conversations.
“Is this a job interview where I'm trying to impress the person?”
Navigating Critiques with Transparency
57:51 to 58:41
Learn how to respond to critiques using transparency instead of vulnerability.
“Or your boss says, hmm, you've been quiet lately in meetings.”
Teaching Teens to Connect with Educators
58:41 to 59:41
Understand the importance of building relationships between students and teachers.
“I, again, think that's translatable, especially as like for teenagers as they're learning how to navigate relationships with teachers.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:03Dr. Aliza Pressman:I just had such a fascinating conversation with Professor Leslie John from Harvard Business School, who wrote a book called Revealing, and she's a behavioral science researcher, and she explores how strategic vulnerability and sharing personal information actually can lead to deeper relationships and professional success. And today we translated that conversation into adaptive revealing for young people. We talked about even as early as four and five years old, like how can you slowly help build this incredibly powerful skill in your kids? How do you teach disclosure and emotional literacy? Being a good revealer is so highly linked with emotional literacy and connection and relationships and even good relationships with teachers.
0:55Dr. Aliza Pressman:Like we went all the way through high school when we're trying to figure out like how an adolescent can navigate that sort of tricky experience of disclosing, but not too much and vulnerability, but not too much and transparency, but not too much. And how for some people, it's just a harder skill than for others. So we're talking about all of this and more. It's Dr. Liza Pressman, and this is Raising Good Humans podcast.
1:27Dr. Aliza Pressman:I want to hear about your research in the context of the larger body of work that you do. And then I want to talk about if you're raising kids and like, let's say your kid struggles with exposing themselves, disclosing, connecting. I feel like your research could translate really well into how parents could kind of bolster those skills out of the gate. So maybe broadly talk about your work and then we can like translate it to parents. And also it's not that this isn't highly important for connecting and having relationships in adults. You know, like we need that too as parents, but I kind of feel like a lot of people reach out to me worried about helping their kids understand the balance of disclosure and vulnerability and connection and just like feeling bad about sharing and all of those things.
2:33Dr. Aliza Pressman:Like the kids feel bad? Yeah. Like kids who just don't have that skill. It's a real skill. Yeah, it is a skill. We're never taught it. Yeah. You know, people talk about it all the time or ask about it. And I actually haven't seen research the way you do it. So I thought, I know it's like a little of a departure to translate it in areas where you haven't looked at it, but I think it's probably quite translatable. This is awesome. I love it. And this is where, like, it's a perfect match because your expertise, you can, like, put boundaries on what I'm saying and ask the questions and describe. And yeah, this is amazing.
3:10Let's do it. Yeah. So I wrote this book because I started realizing that we are obsessed with TMI, too much information, oversharing. And that's real. It's a real problem. But there's another problem that I increasingly have been thinking and finding it to be even more problematic, and that is undersharing. T-L-I, too little information. We didn't even have a word for it, but I've dignified it with a word now because it really is a problem. We suffer a lot when we don't share enough. And the more I learned and the more I practiced revealing, the more I realized that even I, card-carrying oversharer, I identify as an oversharer, even I was holding back on the really important stuff.
3:57For me, the way it played out was I realized that my brand, so to speak, of oversharing was like saying kind of self-deprecating funny stories about myself, which I still greatly enjoy, but that felt like almost like performative, right? Yeah, yeah. And then when it was like saying hard feelings, I was not doing that. So in writing the book, I was pushing myself to do it more.
4:25Dr. Aliza Pressman:I identify in that very way. Like, that's where I can connect and share with people. But if it's, like, an actual reveal, I probably am not as good at that. But I'm very comfortable with, like, it's almost like pretend oversharing. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But what happened culturally that kind of taught us that the way to get to know someone is or rather the way in with people isn't to share? What went wrong? What went wrong that revealing feels like you don't get, I don't reveal myself until you've earned it. Yeah, which is a paradox because it's a catch-22. You'll never get close to someone if you never reveal anything.
5:13Yeah, that's a really good question. I mean, you can answer it on many different levels. I think one level that I to answer it at is thinking about the advent of social media. Right. And that's where there really was all this oversharing, rampant oversharing. Right. Like the many stories we can all tell of someone who vented, vented, that's being charitable about their boss on their social media. And then, oops, their boss saw it and they get fired. Right. That's like all this not reading the room, oversharing and suffering for it. But I think we got, I think, I know so, I myself as a researcher got really caught up in that.
5:52Like I, the first 10 years of my career, I stood on stage and I would say like, we suck at privacy. Like we share, we overshare and we so harmful and identity theft and all this stuff. Yeah. But then over time I realized, wait, I'm saying this professionally, but in my personal life, I am doing buzzfeed quizzes because I'm obsessed with them because they're fascinating um tell me more about me I'm I have all of my passwords on a notepad on my computer like it was like I was living a double life yeah then I started then I did a total flip because I'm like you know this stuff online social media it's not wrong but it's not right it's it's bearing the lead it's missing the forest from the trees because when I looked at my research over the first course half of my career, the most consistent thing was that when I made people feel safe, when I made it fun, when I made it relational, they really want to share.
6:46And so people aren't stupid. There's a reason. And so then I've become since the past 10 years obsessed with the question of like, are we sharing enough? And can we share more? And how do we share? And how do we develop that skill? Okay.
7:01Dr. Aliza Pressman:So I want to hear a little bit of how we develop that skill because no, I imagine there's there are some people for whom it's quite natural and other people, no one taught them the skill. They don't have the skill. It's quite painful. And so I'm curious about that for adults, especially because one of the issues, especially in parenthood, is the just loneliness of it all and isolation. So I would like to hear about that. But then I really want to talk about like, how can we develop this skill in our kids and distinguish between oversharing and the adaptive revealing. Yeah, I love the way you put that adaptive revealing.
7:39That's a good one. So there are a few problems, like a few problems to be solved to get to be a better revealer. The number one thing is awareness. So we walk through life on a daily basis, not even realizing the opportunities to share. It's such a fundamental problem that we don't even consider the possibility of sharing the thing. Here's a concrete example. So I started doing this on myself, these disclosure audits, where I would take out a sheet of paper, and I've got scribbles all over mine, but I'm still going to do it here. And I would write said and unsaid. So I have two columns. One says said, one said unsaid.
8:22And I'd go through the day and just tick Mark and call. So I wake up in the morning, roll over in bed. Good morning, Collie, is what I say. What I think is I slept like crap. When I don't sleep well, I can't regulate my emotions. Then we go into the bathroom. We're standing in front of the mirror, brushing our teeth. And what my mind is wandering and I think, wow, I feel older than I thought I would at this age. And I'm in my mid-40s. Why do I still have acne, damn it? You know, I'm thinking these things, but I'm not saying them. And the thought of saying them never even occurred to me. I still, still, I started being obsessed with these decisions.
9:01And so just that we're not even downstairs. We're not even at breakfast. It's four to one, four unsaid, one said, I don't know what the optimal ratio is. It probably depends on a lot of things, but what I do know is that if we consider saying the unsaid things more, we will share more and we will be better for it. Not sharing everything, but like you can see just in this example, if I'd only said to my husband that I didn't sleep well, he would know. He's very compassionate, but he can't read my mind. He would know, okay, LJ needs kid gloves. If I had shared my feelings about my body, maybe we would have gotten a laugh at least, or I would have felt known and understood, which is a key source of intimacy.
9:37So you see these missed opportunities. So once you start being aware that you are actually making decisions, you're defaulting to silence, that is a choice. Once you become aware of it, you see more opportunities and then you can consider them more. So the first step is like, honestly, just awareness of opportunities.
9:54Dr. Aliza Pressman:When you say that, I'm wondering, like, is there a point at which you should like, is there a point at which you should say like, okay, in this relationship, maybe I don't have to reveal as much. In this one, I need to reveal more. Like, how do you assess which relationships need more revealing and which need fewer? For sure. It's directly correlated with the intimacy of the relationship. Like in a marriage, I think, I have strong opinions, we should be going for total emotional intimacy, which means it doesn't mean say anything. It means you can tell them anything, right? Yeah, yeah. Whatever, like, and there in these contexts of like emotional intimacy of like everything is on the table potentially, I think it's the errors we make are less of an issue of like the content.
10:44We said the wrong thing. We said too much rather the context, like the wrong time. Like if, if your spouse is doing something that irritates you, don't say it when the kids are like distracting us and when we're stressed out. Right. So it'll like, I think we don't think enough about the timing and the context that we're sharing. We kind of ruminate about what the thing is, but then, you know, in like colleagueships, Of course, we don't want to tell them. Of course, there are many things that maybe most things I'm thinking about my colleagues that I wouldn't tell them, right? But even still, in these situations, like what I have found, what I've found in research and experience is that like any level of relationship you have, I've been experimenting and going a little bit deeper and I rarely cross the line.
11:32And that's another thing is it being a skill. We should like experiment and practice and reflect. That's how we get better. If you never feel like you've crossed the line, if you never feel, oh, that might be TMI, you're not going far enough, right? Like it's one of my most fabulous mentors, Linda Babcock, she's an economist who studies negotiation. And one of her sayings with negotiation is if you always get what you want, you're not asking for enough. I think disclosure is the same if you never get to that cringe you're not doing enough so part of it like we should celebrate a little bit the other thing is like if you do feel tmi people can cringe and they can love you for it right like and as I wrote the book I realized so many of these like I mean I yes I love revealing funny to self-deprecating things but the purpose of that the purposeful answer to why I included it is because reflecting on these moments I'm like oh oh, geez, people cringed.
12:28Major disclosure hangover. But with perspective, I'm now like, yes, yes, and. They cringed and they admired me for it because they became some of my closest mentors, right? But yet we fixate, understandably, because of psychology, we're human, on the cringe, the negative social feedback. And we don't see the trust, the admiration. That's less apparent. So it doesn't register. And even if we really did say something a little offensive, of really cross the line in that way. We often approach these things as if they're one shot, but they're not. Disclosure is a campaign. So you can go to their, you can stop by their cubicle later on in that day or stop by wherever they are, your colleagues, and ask them how they're doing, how they feel.
13:11I have also been testing this and most of the time from the way my psychology works is I have thought I have offended them and I have not.
13:20Dr. Aliza Pressman:Oh yeah, most of the time. yeah um so you may also learn right you may learn that actually and then you learn more about the world and it's just like and if you did offend them then you have a conversation and they'll love they'll love you for it yeah i so this is where i think this could be super helpful with young people yeah because starting in school age as you start to see that like emerging adolescence and then certainly into middle school and high school. I'm just thinking about the kids who come home and are spinning out about disclosures or, you know, like what was too much, what was too little, or kids who are struggling with how to make friends.
14:05Dr. Aliza Pressman:And I think this is where it could be incredibly beneficial because not, I mean, I think there are some very talented people and you tell me what you found. There are certainly very socially talented people who kind of just intuit what is the balance of like great revealing and disclosures and what's like, okay, this person can't handle what I'm about to say. I'm going to adjust. But how do you teach young people this skill? So I don't know. My children are four and five, so I'm evolving. And, but I do, of course, know science, the science we know about it. And I'm so eager, I practice stuff in hopefully an age appropriate way all the time with my children.
14:53Dr. Aliza Pressman:That's, I'm sort of curious, even with four and five-year-olds, like, is it on your mind? Because research, you just can't help yourself. It is. So one, okay, so this, this research blew my mind, which is that they videotaped the faces of preschoolers, like three and four-year-olds, and they videotaped their faces as the children were watching some scary movie. And so they wanted to see how much expression, how much do children let out naturally versus like keep hold it in. They also measured galvanic skin response. So how sweaty their hands were. So a physiological objective measure of stress.
15:28And you can see where I'm going here, right? Because the more people, the more the children let it out, the less stressed they were. put differently the ones that held it in they were more physiologically stressed and then this is what like oh boy mom um they followed them they followed the little guys the little guys and girls and once they for like a year or two and by the time they reached kindergarten there were now
15:54Dr. Aliza Pressman:gender differences yeah the boys were holding it back and so as I learned about that research I had a four-year-old right then. And, you know, it really struck me hard. And so maybe it might be I'm swinging the pendulum in the opposite, like too much because I'm, how do you feel? How are you feeling? And this is how I feel. Although I think I'd rather overdo it than underdo it in this case. But I think that another thing I've realized, so I'm especially trying to help them share their feelings because this is also science, as in something I actually know, which is that revealing, being a good revealer, being able to share your feelings requires emotional literacy.
16:46And that's something I realized with myself as I wrote the book that the reason why I'm sometimes not sharing my feelings is because I don't know what my feelings are. And so it's not revealing is like the superficial issue, right? Like it's a matter of like understanding yourself. And so I am trying to nurture that in them. And I am like crazy impressed by them. I mean, they're my kids. Obviously I'm impressed with my children. They're the best. But like, like my, my little four-year-old, he said, I love you, but sometimes I don't like you. Oh my God.
17:21Dr. Aliza Pressman:I know. And then I'm like, oh Tyler, that's amazing. I was like too excited. He was like, I was supposed to be a criticism mom. But like, you know, I only learned to, it was actually as I was writing the book that I learned to, I knew the science of labeling feelings and all this stuff, but it wasn't until I wrote the darn thing that I actually did it. And I remember being with my therapist, fetching about something. I don't know what it was, but he said he kept saying how do you feel how do you feel and because I kept saying like thoughts cognitions or how I thought other people thought and then finally I the psychologist said to him what is a feeling and then he gave me an emotions wheel which isn't as you know is an amazing tool to help you get more in touch with your inner state help you articulate understand what your emotions are help you gain emotional literacy.
18:20And I thought, wow, I'm in my 40s and I'm learning the difference between like the shades of anger, like that there's rage, frustration, like I'm only and if it would be amazing if my children could do this from a young age. And the fact that they love you, but not like you, I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is amazing. So, yeah, but I'm only at the toddler stage. Oh, another thing that I've been experimenting with, I realized that I realized this in myself, which I would guess is common in parenting, but I don't know, you would know, where we tend to hide our frustration, unless it's about our children.
18:56But like, if we come home from the office and it was a really hard day, we had a hard conversation, we feel down, we don't actually say that to our children, at least not children that are four and five. And I started thinking, like, maybe there's an age-appropriate way to share this, because if I never share this, then when they feel frustrated, they're going to think that there's something wrong with it. So, and they're so perceptive, right? So like one day Oliver's like, what's wrong, mom? And normally I'd be like, it's great. Like, I'm so happy to see you. And then I was like, no, no, I feel really preoccupied because I have a deadline tomorrow and I'm stressed about it.
19:34And then I felt better. And then he was like, okay, like he didn't feel, it's almost like you're gaslighting someone when you, right? Totally.
19:40Dr. Aliza Pressman:Yeah. In fact, I would say like, uh, first, my kids were three and six when I got separated and I, and I was like very aware of the naming your affective state to the extent that they can like handle it, but not more than that so that you don't gaslight them. Yeah. But I was definitely like, I'm not going to tell my tiny little things that I'm really having a hard day because my marriage is falling apart. But I definitely, that was my first sort of like challenge at that age. But I took it to such an extreme because like, who cares what I know? You know, like when you're in the moment parenting, the academic or intellectual side is like.
20:25When you're in the trenches, yeah. Yeah, that and a dollar. But I remember all the way until my oldest was probably nine, I was so guarded about sort of some of the stuff that was going on internally for me because I just
20:43Dr. Aliza Pressman:wanted to protect them so much. but of course they're intuitive human beings. And then I had this realization and where I was like, wow, I have blown this. So I will impart this on people with younger kids because mine are cooked mostly. But I said, I was really upset about something. Like I was very clearly upset because everything was a mess and there was just something that was going on that was upsetting me. I didn't even remember what it was. and I welled up with tears as I sternly said to clean up. And my oldest looked at me and she was like, you don't cry. Wait, what's going on? And she was so freaked out by it.
21:27Dr. Aliza Pressman:And I'm like, I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. Yes, I do cry. I can take care of myself while I cry. And I am just like, this is just my body physically responding to my feelings, but you do not need to worry about me. Yeah. And I'm so sorry that you did not know that I'm a person who cries. Like, ugh, what a dumb mistake I made. It's completely understandable. I think it's like we think that hiding is protecting. Yeah. And it was such a weird thing because, of course, you don't want to say to your kids, like, I've had such a hard day. Make me feel better. I don't know if I can handle this.
22:06Dr. Aliza Pressman:Right. Right. I know for sure. It's a balance of how you share. Yeah. But certainly, I had a really hard day at work, so if I seem a little distracted, it has nothing to do with you. Why wouldn't you disclose those things? So I learned that lesson when my kids were too old, so I think it's great that you're talking about the youngers. And then, of course, they're going to learn that you can reveal those feelings, figure out what they are, even to name them. But also, it's not end of days if you're having them. Exactly. The world doesn't come to an end. I'm curious, how did you handle, like, talking about divorce?
22:51Or maybe that's a road you don't want to go down. No, no, no. I don't know that I have, but I don't mind. And what to say, like, what if your ex is being completely obnoxious, like, like, holding that, like, of course, you can't, you don't want to ruin the dad's relationship. So I, you tell me, like, I'm very curious.
23:11Dr. Aliza Pressman:well you know and i certainly like i can't say what somebody else should do even if there's research the research is so clearly like it's like make sure that you take care of yourself and you're regulated and you don't hold you know like pull the kids in different directions and argue and have contentious stuff going on so like we were trying to abide by like the big research I was very lucky that my ex-husband was like, you're the developmental psychologist, so you tell me how we tell them. But I was also thinking in my head, there's no real rule book for this. That's also putting a big burden on you, right?
23:51Like the micro, we don't know the micro answers so often, right? We don't know the micro, of course not.
23:56Dr. Aliza Pressman:And everybody, I think my whole like industry has micro answers. And if it makes people feel better to have micro answers, like sure, we can make them up, but they're not actually the answers. Yeah, yeah. But for us, we sat down with them and we just said we have something really—we, like, were drawing and we said we have something really hard to tell you. Oh. And told them that we were not going to be married anymore, but we were still going to be a family. And I remember my oldest was, like—she burst into tears. Look, I'm going to cry now. I know. I know. Me too. She was, like, immediately aware of what that meant.
24:37Dr. Aliza Pressman:Yeah. Even though she didn't know what divorce was, she knew this is bad, whereas my little one kept trying, but then she looked at my older one and then she cried just because of knowing those cues. Which then, of course, I did tear up, but I tried hard to—that probably was the last time I cried in front of them until the time that I was pissed off about the house being a mess. and I remember just wanting so much to make sure that I told them what was going on but didn't and I was very clear I was like we aren't gonna this isn't something we're gonna do and then change our minds about yeah I didn't want them to have hope hope that yeah so um and we never we agree never to speak ill of each other I'm sure that that if you asked my kids though they'd be like Like, you didn't, like, you weren't so perfect at that.
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25:30Dr. Aliza Pressman:But we certainly tried. Yeah. And still very much do try. I mean, when your kids get much older, it's easier to make jokes and, like, you know. Oh, yeah. But we try not to, like, truly bag on each other. It might be just, like, the way you would with a sibling. Yes. Just, like, be needling. Yes. But I think that was like my, like I revealed to them in that moment because I had no choice because they were impacted. Yeah. And then I really didn't, you know, I was like, if you have any questions. And I checked in with them every once in a while, but I definitely wasn't like, let's keep talking about this.
26:12Dr. Aliza Pressman:Yeah. Well, I don't know that that's the right move either because then it feels like pressure, right? If you, if kids feel like they're pressured to talk, they're not going to talk, right? Like the asking questions, you know, we've all, they just shut down. Yeah. And they have different temperaments. So like one was, had a lot more questions over the years than the other. The other one was sort of like. Interesting. And so I think that's also just like who's more curious, who's more sort of internally processing things that are like more deeper kind of. But it's certainly, I couldn't speak to how their dad shared with them or anything.
26:55Dr. Aliza Pressman:But I do think it's interesting. And then when I got remarried, my current husband is not so, you know, like he's a widower. Wow. But he is like not as, he's much more open with adults. Like he's learned through going through that experience that that is the only path forward. Oh, yeah. But I don't know if that was like with the kids, I think it was probably different. I want to tell you about Great Wolf Lodge, where you can get an adventure for the whole family. Essentially, you have an entire vacation all wrapped up under one giant party roof. They have lodges in 23 places across the country, and you can just pack up the car and go.
27:51Dr. Aliza Pressman:They have an indoor water park, so it doesn't matter what the weather is. It's always 84 degrees in the water. There's a wave pool, a lazy river. They've got water slides, including ones every age group can enjoy together. And they have other adventure-packed attractions, like the action game that kids can play throughout the lodge to the Northern Lights Arcade. And there's just like a gazillion different dining options, all of it under one roof. And so you can bring your pack together at a lodge near you. Learn more at greatwolf.com and strengthen the pack. when we started talking about teens and disclosure or school-aged children i was wondering whether when you were saying like they come home people children will come home from school and they like they're like i don't know if ruminating about what they said is it more like is it in real life convos or is it also social media i would say it's much more in real life okay i think on social media that's a whole other bag yeah because you kind of go with whatever trend is happening in your era of social media, like, but what, what are ninth graders, 10th graders, 11th graders, college students, like what bubble are you in for revealing?
29:03Dr. Aliza Pressman:I'm Gen X. I'm not revealing anything on social media. Like, yeah, I don't get it still. Yeah. Yeah. So like I'm on social media, but not for like real feelings or, or anything. Um, Yeah. And just more for like either work or social updates. Right. For the kids, I mean, for family or whatever. Yeah. But I probably wouldn't pop on and talk about anything deep. Yeah. But that's quite different for even millennials and Gen Z. I think it really depends on kind of what is acceptable. You're probably an elder millennial. I am. What am I? Yeah. So it depends. I'm an 81er, so it depends. Yeah. You're real cuspy.
29:54I'm Cuspie. And I do not identify as a millennial.
30:00Dr. Aliza Pressman:So yeah, it's funny. It's funny. I don't know what I am. But I think that like sort of changes because I do think millennials to me, and this is just an observation, I have no idea. But I think millennials are better at revealing things than Gen X. I think Gen X is like - I could see that. Especially positive emotion, like being proud of yourself. Yeah, I totally agree. Any of that stuff. I'm like, that is disgusting. You know, like my inside voice is saying that even though I'm so, I'm like, how are you women? Like be proud. Yeah. Well, that's cool that you don't judge, like you're not cringy when other people do it.
30:35Dr. Aliza Pressman:Just for me, I'm never, I'm, I'm like thrilled and excited for people. I'm just more like mesmerized. Like I'm on safari. Like who is this strange alien who can do this? Yeah. Did you ever see Amy Schumer has like a skit out that it's like a bunch of women talking to each other and then they see either her and they ask her how she is after they've been self-deprecating and just like, I'm trash, I'm disgusting, you know, I'm exhausted or whatever. And then there's one woman who's like, great, things have been amazing. And everybody's head explodes. I love it. I love it. So I have a dear friend and colleague who's, he's probably, yeah, he's like early 50s.
31:18And he thinks that, oh my God. So to him, the definition of bragging is saying anything positive about yourself. Yeah. Like I have a job. Yeah.
31:36Dr. Aliza Pressman:I'm feeling happy today. Yeah. I'm not a crappy mom. Yeah. Like I can't even imagine You braggart, right? Like, it's so him. I'm like, you are, and I'm like, I want to free you of that because like I'm maybe a hybrid. I'm kind of in between. Yeah. So praise is interesting because I think that praise is something that we massively undershare. And it's something that is like when people are like, how can I share more? I'm not so comfortable, you know, telling my most embarrassing stories like you, Leslie. Um, and one, I think a low hanging fruit is praise to sell it, telling someone that you, I don't know.
32:15I just flight attendant yesterday. I love your lipstick. Like people appreciate that so much and it makes you feel good. It makes them feel good. Feel good. But we like, we don't say the praise often. Right. Yes. And so I've been kind of on a praise campaign recently. And, and so speaking of children, what is the acronym? It's a kind of therapy, PTIC, parent, child, PCI. Interaction therapy. Yes. PCIT. Yes. We did that with one of our children. Well, now we do it all the time and it is so amazing. Did you have someone in your ear? Yes.
32:54Dr. Aliza Pressman:Yeah. Yes. I don't know you, like my understanding of it as a non-expert in this area is that it is, there have been clinical trials and it is like legitimate. It actually like works. But I'm curious what your take is. Yeah, I think what's interesting about it is that it very much leans into positive and specific noticing and praise. Yes. And culturally right now in the parenting, like non-clinical ethos, is that a thing? Yeah. Um, praise is, there's warnings around praise. Interesting. Because there's like, in, I think in this sort of shift of gent, more gentle parenting, I'm not into trendy parenting things.
33:46Dr. Aliza Pressman:Yeah. So, cause I'm like, where are they, what is this rooted in? But I think, I think the, in that case, it's rooted in, in helping kids find their authentic selves without needing to be people pleasers or, you know, look for the praise from people. And so I think parents have gone like the other extreme of being afraid to notice something good. Oh, wow. And so like, of course, if you're looking for behavior change, paying attention to the things your kids are doing well and right and what you want to see more of is going to be incredibly effective. I think there's like a camp of people talking about parenting where it's like, I'm not looking for compliant kids.
34:27Dr. Aliza Pressman:So what do I need to do that for? But I think in that, I mean, sometimes I'm very much just looking for compliance, I'll admit. But I think it's gotten so extreme that parents are afraid to like even praise it all because they're like, well, I don't want them to perform for me or like think they have to please me. And it's like we're now missing these great opportunities. I mean, if I don't praise you when I meet you, like if I don't explicitly say something cool about you that I've noticed, whether it's the length of your eyelashes or the way your voice sounds or whatever. Yeah. I'm like, it's a bad, it's a flag.
35:07Dr. Aliza Pressman:Yeah. A flag that you don't like them or that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I noticed like I, I just like, if I think something nice, I say it. So if I'm not saying it, but I will say it, Like I was careful with my kids not to just like say like, you're the most beautiful thing I've ever seen and the smartest thing I've ever seen, obviously. Right, right, right. Things that are out of their control. But I do think what got lost in that was what you're talking about, which is where parent-child interaction therapy lands. Interesting. I see that like the people pleasing is – I can see that argument.
35:47But I guess my like pushback on that is – and now that you say it, I'm thinking of specific – it's interesting having – well, one of the wonderful things of being a parent is like the new friendships, right? The mom friends and dad. And it's interesting seeing everybody has slightly different styles. And now that you're saying it, I'm like, oh, yeah, some of our friends, like, we got to push them and we got to, like, and they're not super crazy. And they probably think that Colin and I are, like, just so pushovers. Yeah, yeah. But I guess to me that I don't want them to be seeking to please me.
36:26But I wonder whether the way around that is not to not praise, but rather to think about what you're praising. Totally. Like, praise. Like this is so like we literally were now we're like hippie emotional people. No, I shouldn't say that. Probably got that. But like we we literally praise our children when they regulate their emotions. Yeah, because that's a value you have. Yeah. And like I love that you learned that about yourself, like self-discovery. And so I think that, yeah, you can maybe that's that's something I take home. I've just found this PCIT so – it's fascinating how, like, it's – if your listeners aren't super aware with it, it, like – the key thing that I took away from it is you have this special time, five minutes a day with your kid.
37:13It's five freaking minutes, and it's so transformative. Yeah. Where in the five minutes, they choose a task, and this is for smaller children, like blocks or some quiet activity, and your job is you cannot ask them questions, you cannot give them commands. All you can do is you have to play with them, you can narrate what they're doing, narrate what you're doing, and give them label praise. That is a specific praise. And there's even like us type A people, it's amazing. There's even quotas you have to meet, right? In five minutes, it's something like you have to get 20 of these in, which means that you actually have to be constantly - You have to pay attention.
37:53And you have to be constantly saying something in order to get the quotas. Oh, yeah. But that's not how you do all day, every day. But these five minutes, they're so nourishing. The child feels so loved and so seen. And then they're also more compliant and better listeners during the day. Their cups are full. Their cups are full.
38:12Dr. Aliza Pressman:You do need compliance. Yeah. Anyways, I digress on the praise, but praise also enables you. Praise is also really important. Just like with grownups, praise is the key to giving critical feedback. You can't just give someone critical feedback if you haven't prayed because they get defensive. You need to mostly have praise. People talk about the ratios, right? It's like minimum five praise to criticism. Like adults are like that. Children are like that. So yeah. Even when you were talking about the five minutes is powerful, even through adolescence and probably with partners, though I don't know that anybody's done research on that.
38:53Dr. Aliza Pressman:But just because especially as they get older, I mean, my kids have a thing like I'm constantly talking about logistics. I'm so annoying. It's like my love language is logistics. And, um, but I, so I, I often have to shut that down and just keep reminding myself like for 10 minutes, I'm not, this is particularly effective at school pickup, you know, like I'm just, I'm, I'm not asking the questions. I'm not making any demands. I'm not planning out the logistics. I'm not figuring out how much has to get done later. I'm just available. And I think it matters. It really never ends that. That really is effective, but certainly with littles.
39:44Dr. Aliza Pressman:I just think, and I think, what did you call it? Praise, a praise, well, now I can't remember. Campaign? Yeah. Praise campaign. Yeah. Yeah. A praise campaign. But I love that because I do think we've kind of overcorrected and gone away from that. Interesting. I also think coming back to the point, so the question of how school age children, teens, how do we help them develop the skill of revealing wisely and help them? And emotional intelligence, I think, is a big piece of that. But like, what does the day-to-day, And I think you hit on something that maybe is pretty important, which is that giving them the space.
40:28So instead of it being like at dinner where it feels more structured, like, what did you do today? What was a good thing or bad thing? Which there's, I mean, that's nice too. But if you're in the car and it's, it just feels less high stakes. If you're, if you're, you're just signaling. So for example, with my kids, we're only four and five, but like, instead of me listening to talk radio, I turn it, I don't. And I just, we sit there in silence. and then some, at some point they say stuff, right? Yeah. And so this desire to fill the silence is really helpful because they'll then talk to you. And so you doing that, like signaling to your children that you're like teens, that you're available, I think is really important.
41:07Dr. Aliza Pressman:And so what do you find like, and I know it's so cruel to say to a researcher, like translate something that you have done research on into a context that you haven't because we're not taught to, to like translate that way, but people do it all the time who don't have the expertise. So I'd rather hear it from you. Yeah. I feel the same way. Like it's interesting, this whole journey of like now being on podcasts is I feel the exact same way. It's like, we don't have perfect answers because we can't do trials of everything, but we do have an informed guess that smart listeners, they will use what resonates and ignore what doesn't.
41:50So, okay, the question is, what have I found in my research that we may be able to apply to children? Yeah, to children and adolescents who can get like a leg up getting this skill earlier. Okay, so one thing I think that would translate is if you think of like forming friends and and how that can be really hard for anyone. I think that sometimes, maybe I'm just projecting, but I can be socially anxious, especially I'm going back to when I was a teen. I was so nervous. I was so shy and socially anxious. And I do think like, I also did not have emotional literacy. As we've discussed, I only started gaining that in my forties.
42:36But like, I think if I had had a stronger toolkit there, I would have been, that would have been better. But if you just kind of address this anxiety, the social anxiety of having friends and feeling judged and what do you say. I think that this is where the magic thing is to say, it's not that you need to pitch yourself to be a friend. You don't need to persuade or sell yourself. All you need to do is be interested in other people and ask them questions. When I'm in situations where I feel socially anxious, I'm meeting fancy new people and I don't know, feel insecure. Like, what do I say to sound smart?
43:14It's gone now because I just ask them questions. And it turns out when you ask someone a question, they like you. Like the more questions you ask, the more people like you. And so you don't need to perform. Just try to be like just. Nothing is ever just. But what are you curious about? You know, what would you love to know about this person? And then another trick would be finding an area of similarity, right? That's a key. We love people who are similar. And it can be the most silly form of similarity. Like, oh, I'm missing a button off of my shirt. And you are too. Like, those things are like weirdly bonding.
43:52So those are maybe some tips. Those are great.
43:55Dr. Aliza Pressman:They are because, again, there are some kids for whom this comes very naturally and they just sail through socially. But most kids, it's awkward. It's awkward. So even knowing that questions aren't annoying, they're usually received well. Yeah. And I mean, I was thinking about like, I'm interviewing you and you asked me about how I told my kids about the divorce. You can cut that if you want. I'm sorry. I was just very curious. But I think like the truth is you asked it in such a curious way that my brain was like, oh, yeah, I wonder. I haven't really thought about that in a while. and there's, you could, you could see a world where that's like a heavy question to, to ask.
44:45Dr. Aliza Pressman:But if I think curiosity, like genuine curiosity is so receivable, is that a word? It's so receivable and it's so, it's hard to fake, right? It transfers. It just reads as real when it is real. So, um, I think it's easier to think of it as like, what am I actually curious about as opposed to like, hmm, what am I going to say to make this person my friend, right? Yes. That's the way to not make friends. I think that's a really good tip. It is. It's stressful to do it the other way. It's totally a great question to ask yourself, what am I actually curious about? Because there's like a range of topics on the planet Earth that people can get into.
45:26Dr. Aliza Pressman:So let it be something you're curious about. I think it is so important, the work that you do for adults and for certainly women in the workforce and for humans in general. But I really believe it translates beautifully to young people who do not, this is not in the category of skills we develop. And I just think like everybody panics about AI. Everybody's panicking about all this. And these skills that you're talking about, they feel like whoever kind of knows those, like really embodies those is going to just thrive. Because that's what makes us different. The stuff that is most differentiating from AI is the stuff we should get really good at.
46:08And I think this is one of them. Yeah, totally. Is there a gender difference while I'm just giant stereotyping? Yeah. Did you say why you're just gently stereotyping? I love it. Yes, there is. I mean, yes, women are more comfortable revealing than men in general. But it's as usual, these things are quite complex, right? It's also a product of norms of society, of culture where women are expected to share more. Women are expected to be warmer. part of like sharing almost anything you share with the exception of like unethical shady things, but almost anything will make you be perceived as warmer.
46:48And we expect women warm and warmer, right? So, which is interesting too, because it presents a potential challenge for men as well, because while I'm a huge feminist, I also do recognize that like, okay, well, if the world doesn't see revealing as male if I look weak as a man when I do. Like, that's something that's interesting that we should grapple with too, right? So it's like both an awesome thing that we reveal more, that it's safer for women to reveal more in that space, but it's also a curse because if we don't do it, then we're viewed as like cold. So it feels like we don't have a choice.
47:28Dr. Aliza Pressman:now is it safer for women with women or with like is it received differently so this is again where like the rigorous science there's like so too many variables but yeah so in terms of what what the science has shown is um it is there's complexities in the match and is mismatch of gender and one factor that actually really matters when cross-gender is um assuming it's a, this is old school work. It's a, um, heterosexual world, which is that when women, beautiful women share to men, the men like are like in awe, but I don't know if it's more liking or just if it's like, I want to be in their pants or like actual respect.
48:13So that's, they didn't measure that. I have so many follow-up questions, but, um, and, but the, the attractiveness is less important when you're, I think it's maybe goes away entirely when it's, when it's same gender. And so women, I think the finding is women with women share, that's the most highest disclosing, which rings true to me, right? Female friendships, again, because it's like warmth when you like as a professional person, you don't want just to be perceived as likable. You need to be respected, which requires people to think that you're confident and assertive and competent. And we know also the hydraulic nature with women.
48:53Sometimes when you, like, if you're perceived as warm people, women, when we judge women and men, when we judge, and when men judge women, implicit beliefs that if she's warm, she therefore must be stupid and vice versa. In fact, one year in my teaching evaluation, so I was teaching MBAs. This is when I started. This is now, I don't even read my evals anymore. What I do is I give them to, I give them to this amazing teaching coach and I say, please analyze these. Tell me the useful, constructive things and throw every, and all the praise, obviously, and throw everything else out. That is such a great way to get feedback.
49:28Oh, it's so good. It's changed my life. So back in the days when I did read them, I got these two, I had two sections of MBAs and it's like counterbalance. Like you always teach, there's no, it's not that I teach one first. They're basically the same is what I'm saying. They're the same makeup of students. it's all the same. Sorry, MBAs. And yet one of them, I scored super high teaching rating. The other super low. And when the qualitative comments, the super high score was, we love, like Professor John is so smart. We just wish she would smile more. Basically competent, but not warm. The other said, we love her.
50:10We want to hang with her, but she's an idiot. No. It was like, I'm like, oh my God, I'm the same person. It must have been like some micro thing I did. And then some influential person in the section decided, and that's how they coded me ever since. Right. Like, wow. But, but yeah, like the question I think of for women of how do we do it in a way that also, that makes us admired, not just liked, right. That is like competent and warm. I'm thinking of my friend, Alison for Gail. I don't know if you've chatted with her. I just met her and she's so awesome. Yeah, totally. I love it. So likable badass is the term I think.
50:48Dr. Aliza Pressman:Likeable badass. Yeah, yeah. Which is how to be a good parent, by the way. I think so. Yes. Right? Like same thing, warmth with limits and competence. Totally. And with women, like if we don't have warmth, like we need, because this is the way the world is for like it or not, like you got to be warm, but then you can be assertive and then people don't think you're a bitch. And that's how you become admired. So what does that mean for disclosure? Well, it means warmth isn't praising people a lot, being warm, but also when you have to say hard things, like saying it in a, in a developmental way, I would say.
51:28And one of the things that I have internalized is, so I'm at HBS, I'm the official bad guy in that I am in charge of the academic performance committee. So when the MBA students, I know, when they get, that's what I thought at first, but I actually really love it because it's so interesting. Like, it's so interesting. And you really understand the students, all the different struggles they go through, the different categories and the different, it's really fascinating. Um, but so, so I'm the one that when they get enough bad grades, they have to petition to stay. And then my committee can decide, you know, what's, whether they have to take time off or whatnot.
52:06Anyway, so I've had many conversations with them, with students having to tell them things that they do not want to hear basically. And what I initially started, the way I initially was running these things is that I would come prepared and I would say, they, they come and they're like, why am I getting kicked out? or why am I whatever being reviewed? And I would be like, this is the reasons, right? And that never went well. They got defensive because they're human. And so I completely changed my approach. Now what I do, I sit there and I just listen to them. They ask me, they're like, why am I here?
52:41And then I deflect. I'm like, well, how did you experience your first year? And I just keep, they know why they're here because they got bad grades. They don't need someone to be condescending. To remind them. Right? especially like a woman. I know that's the world we live in, sadly. But I have, so I sit and I listen and I'm genuinely interested because I'm, again, I'm curious, like what were the things? And then after that, so that's like the first, like the 90 % of the meeting is that, which I used to think of as this is like filler. There's nothing productive happening, but that's everything is sitting and listening and letting them be heard.
53:21Because then at the end, I've heard them out, they feel like I understand them. And then I can say, well, how can I help you? And then we get real, right? So I should tell Allison, I've been thinking about her a lot recently because I'm working on my assertiveness and my likable badassery. So I have many stories for her. Anyways, I'm talking your ear off. I'm sorry. It's like -
53:40Dr. Aliza Pressman:No, I really like that. And I think it translates again to parenting, especially as you have to give. Yes. In fact, it's the same thing. When you, let's say your kids' grades were just slipping like crazy, you could come in and just get angry about it and, or criticize or point it out like as if they don't know. Right. But getting curious gets you a lot further. Yeah. And then you just said it so beautifully. Like when you say, how can I help you? You're saying I'm on your team. Yeah. Like, we're in this together. Let me be here for you versus we're against each other, which I think is the tone that's set up.
54:21If you're like, if you start saying this is all you've done wrong.
54:25Dr. Aliza Pressman:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's really interesting. I actually think these are all translatable, even if it's not traditionally like a parenting thing. I just think it is. Right. Now, I have one last question about revealing. I wonder what status does to the revealing for you or for the parent-child status difference or with peers. Like, being revealing and disclosing something, is that a way to disarm people? Yes, completely. And I don't know why I was thinking of Anchorman. It's a scientific fact. I feel like Anchorman would say something like that, but it is a scientific fact. So in real companies, they get leaders to randomly assign them to do normally what we do when we try to get constructive feedback from team members, employees, is say, please tell me what you honestly think of me.
55:23I can take it. Okay. The other version is they get the leaders to go first, as in share something that the leader themselves is working on. So I'm working on my organizational skills. I'm working on my time management skills. Be proactive, which again is something that as a leader, it's often not the instinct to reveal something that is your weakness. But this is like assuming you're like established in the company. And so what they found and then they measured, did the leader actually get constructive feedback? And it was the version where it was when the leader showed that they could take it by revealing that that got people to open up.
56:04When just saying, hey, I can take this, be honest, people like. Like, no, you can't. No, you can't. You think you can, but you can't. And then we have found in our research, too, that when leaders in when they, you know, in a metered way, reveal some of their weaknesses or things they're working on to their teams, their teams trust them more. They're more motivated to work for them. It humanizes you. So, yeah. Now, strategies are different when you're in a low status. And most of us every day, we shift up and down. Like, if I'm talking to the dean, I'm lower status if I'm with students. And so modulating our disclosure is important as well, being very cognizant of the status dynamics.
56:42And so how do you modulate disclosure? So one, again, is awareness. Like, where am I? Is this a job interview where I'm trying to impress the person? I'm super low status, like relative to them. They have power over me and I want to impress them. Okay, in that situation, I need to be very careful. but whereas the leadership situation, you have a little more latitude. But even then, when we are in these low status situations at work or elsewhere, I have found that there's still a place, there's still a benefit to being a bit more open but a bit more open in that situation is different than a bit more open when you're the revered CEO.
57:25Right. And there one way to think about it is transparency versus vulnerability. So transparency is like sharing your thoughts as they occur, like telling someone your thinking process. Vulnerability is riskier, more rewarding, but riskier, which is sharing your sensitive thoughts and feelings. And so transparency is a much safer go-to. If you're asked in an interview, what is your biggest weakness? Or your boss says, hmm, you've been quiet lately in meetings. Well, a vulnerable way of answering that, which I don't advise, would be, well, I'm feeling really insecure and I'm worried that my thoughts aren't, my ideas aren't good and I'm ruminating like TMI.
58:12But also being defensive is not good. That's or not saying anything. Transparency there might be a good go to because what a transparent answer would be to that to I noticed you're not speaking as much speaking much in me as you could say, oh, well, the way my mind works is that when I have time to process what's going on, I'm actually able to be a more add more value and articulate things better. So sometimes that's what I'm doing, right? And then it's like, now something that seems like a critique, you're not speaking much, is actually super badass the way you said it because you're like, no, no, no, I'm thinking and I'm only sharing the things that are actually useful.
58:55Dr. Aliza Pressman:Yeah, that's great. Yeah. I, again, think that's translatable, especially as like for teenagers as they're learning how to navigate relationships with teachers. Totally. You know, like I think about that too, just like I kind of am fascinated watching which young people believe that teachers are there to really get to know and to really learn from and which ones think of them as just untouchable, you know. And I think giving tools to kind of learn how to get to know. I mean, the truth is when I was in college, you could not pay me to go up to a teacher or go to office hours. And I'm so mad because like.
59:39Dr. Aliza Pressman:It's a missed opportunity. It's such a missed opportunity. And I think that it starts, like if you can suck the marrow out of the educational experience that you're getting and realize that teachers are not for the most part there for the fantastic benefits, it's really because they want to do this. So that's why I think it's easy to translate. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, you know, go ahead and write a little review. It really does help get it out there. You can go to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen and just, you know, click five stars, write a little sentence about what you liked, and I get a thrill.
1:00:23Dr. Aliza Pressman:And it helps put this work out there. Also, don't forget to sign up for my substack, dralizapressman.substack.com. And of course, you can join every month in my premium Substack for less than a cup of coffee. I guess if the cup of coffee is made at home, it would be more than that, but less than any other cup of coffee,$4.99. Have a listen. Go ahead and join us. We have really great conversations. It's a small group. It's once a month, and we talk about whatever's on your mind.
From the publisher
What if oversharing isn't the real problem — and the quieter habit of holding back is what's keeping us, and our kids, from the connection we're looking for?
Dr. Aliza Pressman sits down with Harvard Business School behavioral scientist and author Professor Leslie John to challenge one of the most widespread assumptions in modern parenting and culture: that the path to healthy relationships is learning to say less. It isn't. And understanding why could change how you show up with your partner, your colleagues, and your children.
Professor John unpacks the surprising science behind self-disclosure, from the hidden cost of "TLI" (too little information) to how emotional literacy quietly shapes a child's ability to make friends, trust adults, and thrive, and why learning to reveal — adaptively, not recklessly — is one of the most important skills we can grow in our kids.
What you'll learn:
Why adaptive revealing is a teachable skill
The parenting move that quietly teaches kids their feelings are something to hide, and what to do instead
Why genuine curiosity, not performance, is the secret to helping your child make and keep friends
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Professor Leslie John has published extensively on privacy, self-disclosure, and trust, and is the author of Revealing: How People Build and Reveal Themselves to One Another.
