Your Questions, Answered: Tantrums, Bullying & Screen Time with Caitlin Murray of Big Time Adulting!

17:31Aliza Pressman:I'm just kidding.

17:32Caitlin Murray:I think I'm getting better with the tantrum thing, or maybe I'm not, and my kids are just getting older and the tantrums are less and less. But I have one kid who was very prone to massive meltdowns when it came to getting ready to go places, like going to school and getting dressed and that kind of thing. And it would just really make my blood boil. And like, well, I, I lean on your like phrase at all times with all feelings are welcome. All behaviors are not. I was like, and I say, I say it to my kids all the time too. And I, I just said it to my daughter the other day and she like processed it and it was a good, it was a good outcome for us.

18:24Caitlin Murray:It was like, you are definitely allowed to feel pissed off and angry about this, but you can't act that way. You can't just like outbursts like that intense. I understand why you're angry and what pushed your buttons about that and stuff, but this behavior is not acceptable. Like you need to rein it in. So in past, like before I have kids that are maybe able to really kind of grasp that.

18:48Aliza Pressman:Yeah.

18:49Caitlin Murray:When your kids are littler, I have definitely been like, enough, you know, like this is out of control and just like be worse or just as bad as they are. And then that is where I really lean on the research around how effective repair is. when I'm like, wow, I really went completely off of the deep end right along with you, jumped in right after you into the deep end with a full-on meltdown of my own. And I am going to definitely have to apologize for myself later. But yeah, I mean, I think that the probably best way is to try to ignore the behavior as much as you can and then talk to them once they've had a chance to calm down.

19:37Caitlin Murray:But I feel like with little kids also, they'll be out on level 1000 having a tantrum and then it's over and they've forgotten about it and you're emotionally kind of scarred. Like, what the hell was that? Like, they were so mad and so incensed and now they're fine. Are they fine? Are they a psycho? Like, is this damaging? What's the... Right.

20:01Aliza Pressman:And they're totally fine. They just like are more easily dysregulated. And like if they're under two, even under three, they sometimes, I think this is a weird thing. Like they, you're not going to talk, like chat while they're screaming because it wouldn't do anything. They can't hear you. but yeah you might need like they might need touch like they might need you to even though they're insane right in that moment they might need somebody rubbing their back unless that pisses them off and they are like even more upset or they might need you to just sit on the floor and you know count sheep in your head so that you kind of can be mellow but I also think we all I mean, I just, I have, you know, elder kids and I just like got so annoyed that my daughter was being, frankly, like just, I don't know what the right word is, but it was like bitchy all day.

21:02Hmm. And I like, I don't know why.

21:06Aliza Pressman:I just was like, I've had it. And she was so taken aback because I've done that once with my older daughter and felt terrible because I definitely was, I said more than just I've had it.

21:20Caitlin Murray:Yeah.

21:20Aliza Pressman:And like we repaired, everything was fine. But I hadn't done that yet with this one. And I definitely was like, I just tantrumed. Like I was like, I'm done with all of this. and I had to go like,

21:34Caitlin Murray:back with your tail between your legs.

21:38Aliza Pressman:I mean, I've never felt more like a dog with their tail between, I mean, I was so sorry, but I think I just was like, enough with this nonsense. Like I am not like, I cannot today, but it was little kids. That would be very scary if you did that. Like with my older one, she was just like, somebody's having a bad day.

21:59Caitlin Murray:I will say, I have probably scared the living shit out of my kids with my reactions at times to like losing my own temper during heated moments of like trying to get everybody out the door or get your shoes on. Nobody's listening. You've asked them 10 times and then you finally just blow your top, you know? Or like there's a blatant defiant behavior that like makes you really lose it, that kind of thing. But that's, that's what, I mean, I, I'm just, I'm not, I'm not a cool headed person in those situations. I wish I, sometimes I can be, but sometimes I can really blow my top.

22:40Aliza Pressman:Doesn't matter. I mean, I think one of the things that we've learned is like, if your kids feel like you are safe, which I know your kids do, you blow your top, like, they're just like, oh boy you know like that's just a moment and they'll get over it like yes I know that I'm

22:59Caitlin Murray:gonna come back down and that we're gonna talk about it and like I'll hug them and they'll hug me and we'll have a have a moment of relatability and that and that is repair and it's a beautiful thing and but I mean everybody can work on you know that like not getting like that but there

23:22Aliza Pressman:There are just times when you do. And I also don't think it's realistic to be like a person who doesn't eventually just lose it when everybody's being insane around them.

23:36Caitlin Murray:Yeah. I mean, and then like, there's this whole, like around gentle parenting and keeping calm all the time and using a quiet voice when you're talking, like a calm voice and being firm, but calm all the time, like always calm. I'm like, nobody's fucking always calm. If you are always calm, I'm like, what is the name for the drugs that you are on? I need them. Or you're a serial killer. Like, I don't know what's like, you're not rattled up enough for me. Like I would like to tickle you or get you a little put from behind or whatever and see if I can get you going, you know but yeah it's just sometimes that whole like calm robotic like i'm purposefully when

24:20Aliza Pressman:people know that you it's terrible i think that can be terrifying like you want i know like and

24:27Caitlin Murray:sometimes when i'm like pissed off at like my husband or something like that and i blow up about something i'm looking for a reaction from him too like him staying calm makes me even more mad i'm I'm like, why don't you get fired up about this too? Like, let's argue about it. I need to have it out.

24:47Aliza Pressman:Yeah, nothing quiets an argument with my kids like me losing my shit. They're like, oh, it's not that deep. Like, nevermind. No, I do think we, I think there's like that overcorrection of gentle parenting where you're like, oh, you're not supposed to be a robot. I don't think it's particularly healthy for kids to grow up in a household where there was like an underlying seething that was never expressed. I don't think that, like, I think that that's sort of weird, but also, I mean, if it's truly your nature, like you're truly just Buddha baby, then you're probably, that's just your nature and Godspeed.

25:30But if it's a performance, but you're actually so close to losing your mind,

25:38Aliza Pressman:I do think eventually you're gonna, it's like, it's gonna be bad.

25:42Caitlin Murray:It's gonna surface somehow.

25:44Aliza Pressman:Yeah. And then I guess also we need our kids to be able to like see over time, again, not all the time, but like see over time that people react and that the world does not end.

25:58Caitlin Murray:Yes. Yeah. And we can get better from this. We can be stronger. we can have like a real conversation with each other as a result of this and what happens when feelings get really intense and like being vulnerable and showing humility and all of that I think is really powerful in terms of like developing the bond with my kids. I feel like I'm like, let's just be real, you know? So. Okay. So, but really quickly before we move on to the next one. What if some kid is like literally going physical or maybe going to hurt themselves? Like what's the right thing to do in those kinds of situations?

26:39Aliza Pressman:You have to hold their body and protect them and it doesn't look good.

26:43Caitlin Murray:What if they're like really like an eight or nine year old?

26:48Aliza Pressman:Then you need to make sure everybody's safe and get them in a room where they're safe. Like, I think it's a fantasy to say like, I'll be here with you no matter what. No, if you're throwing things and kicking and you're too big to sort of do the bear hug, you have to protect the other people in the household and they might need space. Like some kids actually get more dysregulated because somebody's like, I'm here for you. We're just going to breathe through this. And then they're like, that's so infuriating. So I think that there is a world where when a kid gets that, that they're seeing that red and it turns physical, that you have to let them be alone in a room as long as they're safe.

27:35Aliza Pressman:If they're younger, you physically hold their body tightly enough that they can't escape, not because you're in any way hurting them, but actually because you're protecting them and yourself. It doesn't happen with kids who are eight, usually plus very often. Like if it's a repeat, this kid is a danger to themselves and others at eight years old, you should see that's where it's like, okay, this feels like it's out of scope with what is part of typical behavior.

28:06Caitlin Murray:Okay. Yeah.

28:07Aliza Pressman:Whereas if that happened with a two or three year old, it's not. Right. Yeah.

28:12Caitlin Murray:Like it's, it's not age appropriate after a certain point in time where you can, yeah. You shouldn't be afraid

28:18Aliza Pressman:of your two big children. Like at that point, something might need a little extra support.

28:24Caitlin Murray:Yeah. Yeah. Maybe reach out to somebody.

28:27Aliza Pressman:Even your pediatrician, just say like, Hey, there've been a few times where I'm like a little bit scared for like the physical, physical harm that could occur, you know, for myself or for my kid. And I just want to check that out.

28:41Caitlin Murray:Yeah. Okay. We could, I mean, I could like talk a full episode on each of these topics with you, but we'll move on to the next one. And now for a quick break. So here's the deal.

28:54Aliza Pressman:Zip Recruiter is a really good business if you need to find someone pretty much in any industry to be a job candidate you're hiring and you don't have a billion hours to go through resumes. So if you're waiting for the right candidates to apply or sorting through resumes or trying to get in touch with potential candidates or finding candidates and finding out they're not actively looking for jobs, this is for you. So the future of hiring is very bright because ZipRecruiter's latest tools and features help speed up finding the right people for your roles. So you save valuable time to do the work that you're actually meant to be doing.

29:39Aliza Pressman:So now try ZipRecruiter for free at ziprecruiter.com slash humans. Use ZipRecruiter and save time hiring. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. And if you go to ziprecruiter.com slash humans right now, you can try it for free. Again, that's ziprecruiter.com slash humans, Z-I-P-R-E-C-R-U-I-T-E-R. It is the smartest way to hire. Ziprecruiter.com slash humans. Get out there and find somebody awesome. Okay. I want to tell you about sous vide because I'm super into figuring out how to cook, as you know, because it's just a late in life activity for me.

30:35Aliza Pressman:I want to tell you about Suvi. I am going to share a way you can feed your family at home without any planning, prepping, or exhausting cleanup. Suvi is a smart countertop oven and a flexible meal delivery service in one. So I've been using Suvi at home and I've saved hours each week. I'm like so excited about a sous vide kitchen robot because it has a built-in refrigeration system so you can set up dinner in the morning and then sous vide keeps it cold until it's time to cook. You don't even have to be home to start it. It's like, it's truly kind of a miracle. With tap and cook technology, you can prep dinner in a couple of minutes.

31:22Aliza Pressman:You can load meals into the sous vide cooking pans, tap the card to your appliance and set what time you want the food to be ready. Come on. I mean, it's so cool. And the chef crafted food is delivered to your home. So Suvi has a 100 day risk-free trial. So you've got to give it a try. And you can go to suvi.com slash humans to get It's 16 free meals when you order a sous vide. That's S-U-V-I-E dot com slash humans. All right.

31:55Caitlin Murray:So the next question was about bullying and what to do with kids who are being bullied at school. Somebody asked about how to deal with like a kid who has special needs getting bullied, that kind of thing. So sad. It is really sad. Um, we've, we've dealt with that a little bit here in my house, but. Was it bully side or bullied? Oh no. Bullied. Yeah. If any of my kids were the bully, there would not be, you would have words. Yeah. That would be a full on your shutdown. Everything is taken away type situation. Well, I guess we should define bullying because bullying isn't, there's a kid being a jerk

32:41Aliza Pressman:to you. bullying is targeted. There's a power dynamic. Like the person who's bullying is more powerful, either socially or physically. And they are enlisting other people to participate. If it's just like there's this one jerk who's always kind of just like nasty to me, that's less bullying and more just like, this is not your friend. So let's stay away. But if it's like they have a power dynamic such that they can engage other people to participate. And also they're just like more powerful than I am. They're a great above me. They're more popular. They're, you know, they have a bigger role on the team, whatever that is that gets into bullying territory.

33:30Okay.

33:31Caitlin Murray:And so, and, and did you say this, anything like physical is considered bullying also, or it has to be repeat offense?

33:39Aliza Pressman:I would have to be repeat offense with a power dynamic and again, like sort of trying to get other people against you as well. If there's repeat offense with physical and there is a power dynamic, that immediately you want to address the adults at the school to help and give permission to your child to sort of have a plan for who they can talk to and go to and not be afraid to sort of point that out, which is also really scary. And that's why like with actual bullying, and I think we use the word very lightly, like jerk, being a jerk is not being a bully. It's just being a jerk. But with actual bullying, you can't do it without adult support.

34:23Aliza Pressman:You just can't. Like I would never expect a child to be able to self-manage a bullying situation.

34:30Caitlin Murray:Okay, that's a good, that's a really good piece of advice because I think like, Personally, in the situation that I encountered, my son was on this team and it was a like a club team. So kids from all different towns and people we didn't know. Parents, I don't know that kind of a situation. And there were a bunch of kids from one town together. And he was kind of he was the only kid from our town. He didn't know anyone on the team. And there was this one little asshole who just like every practice would come at him. He would hit him with his stick while they were in line for drills and say nasty things to him.

35:07Caitlin Murray:And it was every practice repeatedly. And we talked about it ad nauseum together and that kind of thing. And I really wanted him to be able to have the words and the language to stand up for himself. But as much as I could tell him what to say, I could come up with one million fucking zingers to say back to this little shit. And I would have put him in his place so fast. This would frankly not have happened to me because I would have like not stood for that. My son is so nice and like, he is just not going to be the kid that is going to talk that way to anyone ever. Like he's just not that person.

35:58And so I can't, as much as I want to tell him,

36:03Caitlin Murray:you could say this or you could say that. Right. He's just on him. And it's not even going to come out right. Like he's not going to sound good saying it. So it's just going to let, you know what I mean? Like I'm just being honest, like it's a real situation. And so for kids who are, who are like that, who may end up like becoming the target of even just jerks over and over again, or that type of thing. How do we teach those kids like the way to talk or the way to stand up for themselves? And what is like, what's like the language for them? Like, I just don't, I don't know. And sometimes I'm like, this is just like part of the world works.

36:47Caitlin Murray:Yeah. Like this is going to happen to some people and that's what it is. And hopefully nothing actually bad comes of this and they're going to be stronger for it in the end. Yeah. And kinder and more, you know.

37:02Aliza Pressman:Looking out for other people where that's happening. Yeah. Well, I mean, in this case, for example, like a couple of clues that I feel like your son was okay, he was telling you. Like a lot of kids internalize that and they don't, they're too embarrassed and ashamed to tell their parent because they're like, this is a shortcoming on my end. So you have the kind of relationship where he's telling you. so out of the gate I'm like everything's gonna be fine he's gonna be stronger for it that doesn't take away the pain and it doesn't take away that it's terrible and shitty it's I guess I'm gonna have to do a disclaimer at the beginning of this episode that there's cursing well you invited me on the podcast I know I knew what I was getting into so I think just for people to know if your child is coming to you with this half of what you need to do is already done which is be there to receive that.

37:54Aliza Pressman:And then assess whether or not this is, is this kid enlisting the other kids from the town? Or is this kid so jerky, but really what it's doing is he's not able to like then feel comfortable becoming part of the bigger group. And then you can like, depending on their age, you could definitely say something to the coach like, hey, the team is not cohesive. Like, here are some examples of what's going on. Can you figure that out? Can you like keep an eye out? But you're not like overreacting in any way. You're just like, basically do your job, coach. But I think for the kids, just saying, thank you for telling me.

38:36Aliza Pressman:Like, what's that? What is that like for you when you're there? Does it feel like manageable? Do you want tools and tips? Like, are you like, what would you feel comfortable with? Because your son would be like, I'm not going to say that back. Like, I definitely am not going to say that back. So you can give him permission to walk away. Just be like, okay, dude. Like, they need permission to not, to decide in their power who to respond, who to give their energy to and who to just be like, okay, like, you do you.

39:09Caitlin Murray:One thing like that, because I did an Instagram story around this when it was all going on and I put a question box of like people to respond to of the ways that you've dealt with bullies and that kind of thing or what's been your situation. And one response that always like stuck with me is that you could have your kid respond to that person who's like being an asshole to say like, is everything okay with you?

39:36Aliza Pressman:Yeah. like kind of, if they would do that, you can always like, it's like, something must be hard on you right now that you would be taking this out on me. What's going on? And God bless anybody that has the sort of confidence to do that. Yeah, I know.

39:55Caitlin Murray:But you can't even say it in a little bit of a sassy way. Like, is everything okay with you?

40:00Aliza Pressman:Like, you know, kind of turn it on them to examine

40:03Caitlin Murray:the way that they're behaving in a way, like that's a question. That's the other part of this equation where it's like you can tell them what to say and how to say it. But they just, if they're in that situation, they may be the kind of kid that ends up getting.

40:20Aliza Pressman:Yeah.

40:20Caitlin Murray:Like my son got called a nerd at his like third day of middle school the other day. And I'm like, but you are. Yeah. And that's a good thing. Yeah. I love that. It's okay.

40:31Aliza Pressman:It's like that, again, that's a distinction between like people are being a jerk jerks to you like I'm so sorry I'm so glad you're telling me and like you can do what do you need from me do you want do you want me to hear about this and just listen or do you want us to like think about what you could say back but that's jerks and I think jerks are just always going to be around so we need to know that we can survive them. But it is different if they're enlisting other people to be like, look at that nerd and throwing their books down. Then it is bullying.

41:09Caitlin Murray:And you got to get an adult

41:11Aliza Pressman:involved at the school because it can get worse. I do think we very much need to distinguish between jerks that are going to exist throughout time and that we have to have a safe place to go tell somebody about it, like our parents, like we have a close enough relationship to be like, this person said this today. And then I feel great about that kid. I feel like they know they have a safe place to come to. And I also would ask them, do you have anybody, like when you look around, when that happens, is there somebody that you feel like they like me, I'm okay?

41:43Caitlin Murray:Yeah. And I think for this, I'm going to answer that one lady who had the question about her child with special needs. That seems like get the adults involved immediately.

41:54Aliza Pressman:Oh my God. I think any parent who found out if I got a phone call.

42:01Caitlin Murray:How about talking to the parents of the bully of the other kid and stuff?

42:05Aliza Pressman:I think the reason why schools prefer you to go to school is only because if I call you, Caitlin, and I'm like, listen, I know you and I know your values. and I feel like you can help me with this. It's come to my attention that your son's been saying whatever to a kid with special needs and I just feel like I can see that you're already enraged at the thought. But like you might receive it. You might receive it and not go and scream at your kid for being just a terrible kid or alternatively denying it and being like, well, that is not the story that I heard. and you know but it just doesn't people most people do not like imagining their kids to be

42:59Caitlin Murray:someone that is not aligned with their values yeah so it could just backfire like they'll either

43:06Aliza Pressman:scream at their kid who then will take it out on the kid that they were already bullying or they might deny it and be like you tell me what really happened like and then and then it becomes he said, she said, or she said, she said, or he said, he said, whatever. So that's why it would make me nervous. If you're like really good with people and you know how to validate that this must be hard, let them know that you know that this is totally possible, that there are different perspectives. Let them know that you just kind of want to have an open conversation about it. I think you could do it, but you have to be really...

43:43Caitlin Murray:Really tactical.

43:44Aliza Pressman:Yeah. Yeah.

43:46Caitlin Murray:Maybe not worth that. Just like try to get a third party sort of middle. Yeah.

43:52Aliza Pressman:And also if there's a kid with special needs that's being bullied in any way at the school, like they need to get their act together at that school because things happen. Kids are good at finding places like the playground and the lunchroom to be really mean and not get caught. so the school needs to do better.

44:16Caitlin Murray:Yeah.

44:17Aliza Pressman:Oh God.

44:18Caitlin Murray:Makes me want to throw up. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Next question. All right.

44:27Aliza Pressman:Wait, is your son's team like better now? He left that team. Great. Oh, that's another thing we didn't talk about. Leave. If you feel like this is actually like not stretching me anymore. This is unpleasant and almost like ruining my love of the sport or making it so that I'm like, I don't know. I think that's a personal decision, but like, I think it's sad, but we can also teach our kids, you know, there are times when you just take yourself out of a situation and I can help you. And then when they get older, they'll realize like, I can leave this situation.

45:08Caitlin Murray:yeah yeah just exit the room or whatever it is I know it's so hard it's the worst I hate thinking

45:15Aliza Pressman:of people being unkind I know oh my god it's there's nothing that like I think about that

45:21Caitlin Murray:movie wonder and I just oh I like just want to cry thinking about it I know it's everyone in the

45:27Aliza Pressman:world should watch that movie everyone in the world should watch that movie it's so good it's

45:31Caitlin Murray:a great family movie too if you haven't seen it with your kids I watched it like a year or two ago with my kids and my oldest are about to be 10 and 12. So they're like eight, they were maybe, I don't know. It's so nine at the time. It was great.

45:45Aliza Pressman:It's so good. Cause then you can have these conversations because we should proactively like teach our kids not to just not bully people, but to also make sure that we don't witness it and just walk away.

45:58Caitlin Murray:Yeah, totally. To be like this, the sticking up, the person who isn't afraid to stick up for somebody who's looking like they're being marginalized. And, and the person who's like, if that, if that kid looks around the room

46:12Aliza Pressman:and is trying to find a kind friend, I will be that safe friend.

46:16Caitlin Murray:Yes, totally. Yeah. My mom was really good about that when we were kids too. She was like, you definitely don't have to be friends with everybody. You absolutely have to be nice to everybody. And if you ever see somebody being treated, mistreated by somebody else, you have to say something to them.

46:37Aliza Pressman:That's so, yeah, let's just have everybody say that to their kids today.

46:45Caitlin Murray:I'm going to say it to my kids all when they get home today too, just to remind them. Just a reminder. You say those things though, there are these things that we say to our kids like over and over and over again, like you can't say them enough and you want them to be part of like the cornerstone of their value system, you know, and their fabric, their emotional fabric, like never forget these principles.

47:09Aliza Pressman:And then it's like, if you choose wisely, the things that really matter to you in your household, those values, they know I can't like, that's a line I'm not crossing. Like that makes me outside. That's, that makes me misaligned with my own like core of who we are as a family. Yeah.

47:28Caitlin Murray:You start to feel bad even thinking about going against it,

47:31Aliza Pressman:right? Yeah. And now for a quick break. In other obsessions, I'm very much into how my hair has just, it used to be really thick and just time, guys, time has made it thinner. And so I was very excited to get iRestore into my life, the iRestore Elite. Basically, it looks like a bike helmet, but it's got 300 lasers and 200 LEDs that send light therapy directly to your scalp. And you can just do whatever you want during that. So it's just helping your hair get thicker and fuller and healthier. And you, you know, might look a little goofy, but you can do whatever you want during that time and help your hair.

48:23Aliza Pressman:So I think it's a pretty good gig. Give yourself the gift of hair confidence for a limited time only. Our GH listeners are getting a huge discount on the iRestore Elite because it is a pricey product, but awesome. And this huge discount go like huge, huge, hundreds of dollars off happens when you use the code RGH at iristore.com. So just head over to iristore.com and use the code RGH for this exclusive discount on the iristore elite. Support the show and tell them we sent you. Hair loss is frustrating and you don't have to fight it alone. Thanks to iristore. So another meal delivery service that I want to tell you about, because I just think saving time is a very beautiful thing, is Nurture Life.

49:15So Nurture Life is a meal delivery service

49:18Aliza Pressman:that makes nutritious meals and snacks that your kids actually want to eat. And it gives parents the support they need as well. Nurture Life's whole menu is perfect for kids ages 10 months to 10 years old. They have fresh meals and snacks that are delicious, nutritious, they're fully cooked. So they're ready to serve in just a minute. which especially when you have younger children, I know that it can get pretty hectic. Okay. So this is how it works. You choose from more than 50 variants of nutritious, balanced meals on their menu from finger foods for babies to toddlers and kids meals for older kids and nurture life does the cooking for you.

49:55Aliza Pressman:The fresh meals are delivered straight to your door in refrigerated packaging. And along with the full meal options, they also include on the go snacks and superfood smoothies so kids can eat well, no matter what they're in the mood to eat. So head to nurture life.com slash humans and use the code humans for 55 % off your first order plus free shipping. That's right. It's 55 % off plus free shipping. Once again, that's nurture life.com slash humans, and make sure you use the promo code humans for 55 % off. Even if you're not a parent with young kids, like I am not a parent of young kids anymore, you might have friends who struggle with mealtime.

50:38Aliza Pressman:Remember, put your little ones first with healthy meals from Nurture Life. Quince is so awesome. Fall is in full swing. So I am getting ready for sweater shopping, light sweaters for me in California and really cozy, warm sweaters for my daughter who's off to the East Coast for college. I'm very into their sweaters. I get all cashmere at Quince and you cannot believe the savings, it's bananas. They have every essential for fall, like 100 % Mongolian cashmere for$50. And they have wool coats and just everything you could possibly need for this new weather transition. So chic. You cannot believe the prices.

51:23Aliza Pressman:I get so much from Quince. It's actually ridiculous. It's really become a one-stop clothing shop for me. So keep it classy and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from Quince. Go to quince.com slash humans for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash humans to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Wince.com slash humans. Check it out. I'm not kidding. You cannot believe the quality from my matching beautiful pajama sets to beautiful cashmere to coats to everything. You cannot believe these prices and quality. Seriously. Wince.com slash humans.

52:13Caitlin Murray:All right. So the next one, which is like, so of the moment, everybody's thinking about it, talking about it, both just like phones, but also screen time. So like screen time, I think for littler kids and then like phones, et cetera, for, for bigger kids. Like, what's the question? Just like, what are the limits? What should be allowed? What's wrong? What's right? What are we suggesting? What's like.

52:42Aliza Pressman:Well, what are you? what's your household rule?

52:45Caitlin Murray:Well, so first of all, screen time, let's just, let me go out there and say that screen time was my very best friend, which I did not anticipate when I, when my kids were little, because I was like, I was strict about like screen time and how frequently we would watch shows and stuff, especially as a first time mom, you're like, I'm going to do this and I'm going to do it right. Like, you know, you're really like strong out of the gates with all of the things that you want to do. Right. But in my house, like, especially as my son was sick, when my son was sick and he, cause for, for whoever's listening, my son had leukemia from the time he was three until he was six.

53:26Caitlin Murray:And after his treatment days and for weeks at times and months at times, he was really unwell. And there wasn't a whole lot he felt like doing a lot of the time other than lying on the couch. And I had a, he was three, my little one was one. And there was a shit ton of Mickey Mouse Clubhouse being played and Paw Patrol being played in the house and stuff. And it didn't, these, like those two kids of mine specifically, like, were okay with that. I think it's like everything deserves nuance, you know? So like with your, whatever circumstances that you are in specifically matters and, and, and which kid, what kid you are mad or what type of kid you have matters and that kind of thing.

54:14Caitlin Murray:So there is no, like, I don't think one size fits all equation for any of these questions or anything, right? Anything ever pretty much, except for just be kind and stick up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't bully. I mean, that was fine for them. Like they didn't turn into zombies. They were okay with that. We had like, it was structured in a way that was, it felt like a structure, like you can watch TV right now, but then it was like a set time where we were going to turn the TV off and we were going to have a snack and go in the backyard, like for a little while. And then like, you know, whatever. It was just, it was a creation of structure around a time that there weren't a lot of rules for.

55:01I created structure with a, like a very loose timeline around screens and stuff like that.

55:10Aliza Pressman:I mean, everything that you said is true no matter what, but like, of course, in no universe should you even consider worrying about something like screens if you're trying to figure out like, how are we getting through this? Screens are like absolutely a fantastic way to have cozy time. I mean, it's not even a question, but you're absolutely right. Like you also have to know your family and your circumstances and what is screens taking away. So you said something very important, which is we're going to get outside. We're going to have a snack. Like in general, the problem with screens isn't the screens themselves.

55:51Aliza Pressman:And the problem with phones isn't the phones themselves. It's what is it taking you away from? And so outside of the extenuating circumstances of illness, generally speaking, you just want to make sure that no matter what your mealtime. And again, caveat is if you have a kid who's not eating and sick and the screen is the only distraction that they can have, then who cares? Like nothing matters except for they need to get their nutrients. But if it's like a typically developing kid and all is going well, you want to avoid screen time during mealtime and sources of connection. You want to make sure they're getting outside and getting exercise and you don't want to do it before bed or have screens or phones, certainly in the bedroom and at night.

56:35Aliza Pressman:And then everything else, like you can't overdo it if you have those limits. Like you just can't. There's not enough hours in the day to do all of that. Even with phones, like I'm less worried if somebody is like, I did let my seventh grader have a phone, but they aren't allowed to have it at school. they aren't allowed to look at it in the car when we're together driving they can't because that's like time to connect they can't use it during mealtime they have to be outside an hour and a half a day and they need exercise and they have their homework and and and and they don't get to have it at night i'm not worried about them and they don't have social media and they don't have social like what are they gonna what could possibly yeah be the issue the issue is that they'll be like, now I want the social media.

57:24Aliza Pressman:Now I want this. Now I want more time with it. And you bend. And I think that that's where screens get tricky is we forget that we could just be like, this is not working well. I'm going to just take it away. And it was too soon. But I'm not, I really think it's one of those things where we have more power than we realize to make sure that screens don't take away from all of the wonderful things that need to happen. And if they are, we have tremendous power to take them away from our kids and say, I think this isn't going well. I'm making the call. And it'll be, they might be mad at you. Like you're not gonna get buy-in necessarily.

58:06Aliza Pressman:And I don't think our kids need to agree with all of our rules.

58:11Caitlin Murray:Yeah, in my house, what we've done around the phones thing and stuff, of a sixth grader and a fourth grader. And over the summer, like, and this was another question that I was kind of, I can loop this in with what we're talking about, because people are also asking about how to give your kids more autonomy and freedom in today's world where they need to be able to go out and do some things on their own and figure out like how to fail, how to succeed, just figure out how to do shit on their own without your intervention constantly, but also without being so afraid of like not knowing where they are at every second, not having eyes on them constantly or like that, the fear that we all have now because of how much crazy shit goes on.

58:55Caitlin Murray:But I guess, so we decided, I gave our kids like a, we live in a safe place. So that should be like the first thing that I say where I had like the ability to do that because of where we live. Like that was an easy decision for me to give them more autonomy. Like you can ride your bike to and from the activities that you have going on this summer, and I'm not going to take you there. And you're responsible for getting yourself back and forth and pretty much kind of occupy yourself for the day until I pick Lukey up at camp, our little one, and then we can all kind of come back together around 2.30.

59:34Caitlin Murray:And because of that, I let my fourth grader also get an Apple Watch so that we could be in touch if we needed to be. And my sixth grader already had one. And my plan is to just use that as the mode of communication through pretty much high school. But I found it's really helpful. I love that they have it. I love that we can get in touch with each other. it's a wonderful tool like they can keep in touch with their friends make plans with their friends autonomously without my intervention or having to like talk to the moms all the time other moms all the time and half the time like they forget about it like it's not a massive distraction so it's

1:00:18Aliza Pressman:because if it doesn't have certain features on it it's just not that exciting I mean the only thing is is I think in the classroom I wouldn't want them to have it on because it's...

1:00:27Caitlin Murray:Yeah, they're not allowed to. I think most schools these days are pretty much on a cell phone ban. I don't...

1:00:35Aliza Pressman:I mean, depending on where you are. I don't know. Yeah. But I do think that giving them that... It's so great that you have the kind of neighborhood where you're just like, okay. Yeah. Also, it makes your life so much better.

1:00:51Caitlin Murray:Not everyone can do that. I don't live in a city. I don't...

1:00:54Aliza Pressman:But even in cities, if you know your neighborhood well, and you know the different checkpoints where you could be like, go into this building or this store if you need anything, they can start. Yeah, there's a lot of safety in that. Like you might say fifth grade, like in New York City, I might be like, you could start walking to school in fifth grade.

1:01:16Caitlin Murray:Yeah.

1:01:17Aliza Pressman:Or taking the bus.

1:01:18Caitlin Murray:There's a lot of people on the street. Yeah, public transportation.

1:01:21Aliza Pressman:You know what buildings to go into or what stores to go into if you need anything. There's so many people around. I mean, I'm such a city person that I actually feel safer in the city than I do in the suburbs. Because I'm like, where are all the people? It's crazy. I have such a psychotic alarm system in Los Angeles.

1:01:45Caitlin Murray:Why?

1:01:46Aliza Pressman:It's like crazy. My security system. And I'm just like...

1:01:51Caitlin Murray:It's so spread out kind of thing. It's so spread out.

1:01:53Aliza Pressman:But my husband just got here and he's like, what's this new thing that is like on the roof of the house that is so clearly like a giant camera with flashing light that has like an alarm system where the security guy, if somebody comes on like through the gate, it would say like, you have trespassed on this property. And then an alarm goes off. It's so crazy. But like, if you put me in New York city, I'm like, don't even bring my key. What is wrong with me? I mean, like I'm so it's just cause I was in high school in New York city, not in the suburbs.

1:02:30Caitlin Murray:Yeah. But I understand what you mean because there are, there's like the, there's so many people around to potentially like step in, help, whatever, if something were to go wrong.

1:02:42Aliza Pressman:Yeah. We have to, we have to wrap up. Should we finish that part of the conversation or do you feel like we finished it?

1:02:50Caitlin Murray:No, I think we can, we can move on from it. I mean, there's so much talk around the phones and stuff. There's so many resources out there now.

1:02:56Aliza Pressman:So many resources. And I think we have to remember we are an amazing resource for our kids because we don't have to be afraid of, of all of this. Like I, do I love that my daughter's school pouches her phone? I am so grateful because then I don't have to think about all day, you know, screens. You need to be policing it. But I also feel like I don't care how crazy my kids have said I am that I take their phones at night. Until my daughter got to college a few weeks ago, she still had to give me her phone at night. She was 18. What time? Well, like at that point, it wasn't a time because she was like, Like by the time she was a senior in high school and 18 years old, it was like she knew that by 11 o 'clock she had to bring it into my room.

1:03:52Aliza Pressman:I was long asleep probably.

1:03:54Caitlin Murray:Yeah, that's what I mean. Like can you just go to sleep and make sure that they bring it in?

1:03:58Aliza Pressman:Yes, because it was like a feature of our household and it was a non-negotiable. And I was like, or I could just keep your phone because you're not paying for it anyway.

1:04:06Caitlin Murray:So like, you either give it to me before you go to sleep or it's here when I wake up in the morning or you don't have a phone for a little while or whatever.

1:04:14Aliza Pressman:Yeah. So like this was, it was a non-issue because it was always the rule. I just never, from the time they had a phone and if it's too late for somebody listening and they're like, I can't do this because we didn't before, I disagree. If they're in your house, you can say like, new rule. Like I take the phone at night.

1:04:33Caitlin Murray:and your daughter goes to Harvard. And that's why. Follow your lead. It was because I took the phone away and that is the key. That's the key for everything. I was going to say, we won't get through these today, but there are several more questions. I mean, should we do it again? On a follow-up episode if you want to. Yeah, there's stuff about button pushing and back tuck, sleep training, talking to kids about shootings, anxiety, all of these other topics of things. So we could tease it for another time and talk about those things the next time.

1:05:13Aliza Pressman:Are you asking to do a special Q &A series?

1:05:17Caitlin Murray:Because now that I don't have my own podcast anymore, I'm like, where can I chit chat for long-form content.

1:05:27Aliza Pressman:We can do it all day. We'll have a part two. Great. We'll schedule it sometime on the podcast. I'm so excited to do that. I think it's so great. You got great questions.

1:05:40Caitlin Murray:Yeah. There are probably a lot more now too, because I only asked it like an hour ago and whatever, two hours ago. And we have tons more to get through. Yeah. A lot of people were also like, I love this idea.

1:05:52Aliza Pressman:Also, yeah, like we're so we're so great for each other.

1:05:56Caitlin Murray:We are. I love you. I love you.

1:06:19Aliza Pressman:in products or services referred to in this episode.