From $17.50/Hour to Buying 7-Figure Commercial Properties

20:23Ashley Kehr:Yeah. When I did my first commercial building, it was a four unit, two commercial units, two residential units. And it was really my first ever full gut rehab that would need to be done. And I said to my partner, I said, I've got the deal. I'm buying the deal. I've got the cash for it. I'll fund it. And I'll give you 40 % equity on the deal if you come in. And we ended up splitting the rehab cost. But if you come and do the labor and do the work and let me kind of learn from you as to what goes on in a rehab project and kind of do it. And, you know, I think that I became pretty handy in this experience.

21:03Ashley Kehr:And he thinks that I didn't and I wasn't much help. But we'll let you guys decide.

21:12Tony J. Robinson:But Jordan, after this sub two deal that you walk away from, obviously you continue to move forward. It doesn't stop you from becoming a real estate investor, but you move on to ink a seven figure deal on two side-by-side buildings. Give us a 30 ,000 foot view of this deal, the price, the size, how you found it. Yeah. So we found it on market. Everything that we've done has been on market. Luckily, I feel like it's actually the easiest and most straightforward, especially with being a realtor. So we bought it for a million ninety thousand. It's about the so there's two of the units like we were talking about.

21:49There's a fourplex with two commercial and two residential above. And then there's the triplex with the commercial below. It actually has an apartment above and one behind. But it's about one of them is thirty four hundred square feet and the other one's about seventeen hundred square feet. The triplex was a little bit smaller. But yeah, so the deal, we thought we were going to pay$155 ,000 for the rehab. And yeah, so that was the plan. The plan was$1 ,090 ,000 purchase,$155 ,000 on the rehab, and we would end somewhere with like$1.6 million after we were done with renovations.

22:25Ashley Kehr:So during this process, what was maybe one of the lessons you learned jumping to this large of a deal? Lessons. um, go to D poor. I'm not sure if it's the same for everybody, but, um, D poor basically where your license is regulated. So where I even have my license. Um, and I guess I think it's a department of professional office regulation, I believe don't quote me on that. Um, but always check to see if the contractor has a license because for some reason, because I'm a realtor and I know I could look it up. I'm like, I'm pretty sure I've done this, but the contractor did not have a license.

23:05I got another contractor that also did not have a license. And I was just kind of being told and both were actually referrals. So I was just running with it. So I think one is contractors, make sure you check the license, license insured, all that good stuff. And then I also think number two, don't just blindly believe a referral, go in and still do some due diligence because I think referrals is the best way to get people. But at the same time, you always want to make sure you're the one and that takes the full responsibility. So you want to make sure you know what's going on.

23:42Ashley Kehr:And along those lines of being licensed, but also insured, too, asking for the certificate of insurance to show like something happens that they have insurance that they can cover. Jordan, I want to talk more about the challenges with the contractors, but I think before we even get there, you had just walked away from a deal because of an$800 judgment lien.

24:04Tony J. Robinson:What was going through your mind signing a multimillion dollar deal with almost no track record? Like why was the$800 judgment lien scary for you, but the seven figure price tag on this one not be scary for you? Yeah, I think just because of kind of what you what we were talking about earlier is just the why. So this deal actually is it's on Cary Street, which is a very prominent street in Richmond. And it's right next to the university. There was a corner store that already had an oven, 10 foot hood and everything in the back. So you could cook and everything. And when my friend and our families got together, we're like, we're going to start a corner store.

24:47we're going to start a deli. You know, we got like, this is awesome. So this one was more kind of like 50, 50 passion project. And the numbers seem to make sense. So we thought, but yeah, it was just really that deli and be able to have like a staple in Richmond and be able to open a store and in Richmond, just like in a lot of cities, we love food and, and businesses that aren't chains. So we were really excited to start that be near the university be able to give some student housing. You know, you could get it. You can get out of class on your way home. You can grab a chicken sandwich on your way up to your apartment.

25:25And we were like, that's going to be awesome.

25:27Ashley Kehr:So did you do that? Did you open a deli?

25:30Tony J. Robinson:Yeah, that's what I was going to ask, right? Like jumping into a project of this size, like I'm sure, Jordan, this size of a project, there were a lot of assumptions that you all made going into it. Did those assumptions hold it to be true? Which ones are validated? Which ones were way off? Walk us through what went right or what went wrong with this deal. Yeah. So we thought that, so some of the assumptions, we assumed that upstairs, we were just going to, so the apartment units, we were like, oh, we're just going to be able to go through. We'll put in some new cabinets, some countertops, some new appliances, put in some new floors, paint, we're good to go.

26:07And for the most part, that was true until we got to the triplex. And my contractor was like, Jordan, you need to get here. Like now the initial plan was just to take down cabinets and put up new cabinets. Um, but when they took the cabinets down out of the triplex, the wall, the drywall came down. So they were like, Hey, um, there's something going on here. Get here immediately. And on my way there, I get sent a video and my contractor is grabbing the studs and shaking the entire top. And it's just swaying back and forth. And I'm like, oh, we have a major problem. So that, you know, I'm not a person that gets too hyped up.

26:47So like in my face, I kind of was just looking flat. But in my body, I'm like, I don't know what's about to happen or what we're about to do. But just, I guess, tell me what to do next. So we kind of just started working out that way. So we assumed it was going to be a quick cosmetic. And it quickly turned into restructuring half of the building, essentially.

27:08Tony J. Robinson:So Jordan, as you guys put your initial budget together, how much did you allocate for contingency? Because you said the budget was like$150 ,000 or$160 ,000. How much of that was just contingency? Yeah, our budget was$155 ,000 and just$15 ,000. It was the$15 ,000 off the top. We were thinking it's going to cost about$140 ,000 and we'll have$15 ,000 just in case something happens. And was that enough for this big of a wrench in your plan? No, sir. So basically our budget, by the time we restructured, like the restructuring itself was, I think it was$18 ,000 to restructure two sides. So then the budget was immediately blown.

27:49And then on top of that, we had to put on new siding because we had to take everything down. So on top of the structure, we had to put on new siding. And I think we all know what happens. And in Richmond and the city, a lot of the buildings are like circa like era from 1900. So a hundred year old building, once you start ripping it open, you find some other things. So yeah, our budget, our budget quickly, quickly doubled.

28:14Ashley Kehr:And like one thing that stinks about doing that structural repairs is usually that money does not affect the appraisal unless it's like a huge noticeable thing when the appraiser comes in. But that's, you know, spending$18 ,000 on structural repairs versus$18 ,000 on a brand new high end kitchen. Like that is not, you know, that's like one of the things that really stinks of like that unseen money that, you know, is put into the property. but it's not viewed as adding value from an appraisal. I mean, obviously you can give the appraiser your receipts and say you dumped all this money into it. But when you really look at the breakdown of the appraisal, that's not usually a line item as to how sturdy is the foundation of the property, how structurally sound is the property.

29:06I was going to say that's interesting because that's one thing I learned also, what I did know, because I've mostly done residential stuff, in commercial, I'm talking to the appraiser and he was like, we don't care what the siding looks like, what color it is. He was like, what's the cap rate? How much is the property making?

29:21Ashley Kehr:Yeah. Yeah. You're certainly having a great commercial side. Yeah. Right. So I went into it with a residential mindset thinking, oh, it needs to be pretty and all these things. And you should make it pretty to attract a higher rent to then get a higher appraisal, not just make it pretty for the sake of making it look pretty. So that was a big thing that we learned through all this. Yeah. Thank you for that call out because that is a great clarification as to how is your property being appraised? Is it the income-based approach or it is, what is it, the market value approach, as they call the other one?

29:53Ashley Kehr:Yeah.

29:54Tony J. Robinson:But Jordan, I think my biggest question is you go over budget. How are you funding these overruns? And I guess maybe even taking it a step further back, how did you fund the acquisition of this deal? Because you had mentioned that you did the sub two initially because you didn't have a ton of excess capital set aside. So how did you get the funds to take this deal down and then to cover the overruns on your renovation budget? Very good family and friends. So the structure of what we were doing, so I had a couple of partners, me and one of my good friends, and then his dad and my stepmom. So they were backing us all the way.

30:31They were like, you guys do what you do. You guys, we trust you. We believe in you. And I really take that to heart. I don't mean to segue, but I really take that to heart because it was a lot of money spent and a lot of time. Even my stepmom, she's retired. So she used to work for the government and was able to retire, saved up, retired early. So it was really just them, family that believed in us and was like, no matter what we know, no matter what happens, y 'all are going to figure out, figure out a way through and, you know, make sure everybody's good.

31:08Ashley Kehr:So that's such a great, like, um, cheerleader to have in your corner is to like have people, you know, motivating you and believing in you. Like that mindset is also a great piece. And it's like, just a reminder of like, if you don't have somebody that's like motivating you and believes in you, make sure that you're still like cutting out the white noise if they're doing the opposite and critiquing you or whatever, have they actually achieved financial success? You know, like Jordan, you stated, you know, your stepmom had saved, she was able to retire early, like, and that's showing she was pushing for you, motivating you as to someone who actually achieved probably something you're trying to do is to be able to retire early in life.

31:52Ashley Kehr:So I think that's a big difference to show.

31:54Tony J. Robinson:So give us the ending to the story. You go over budget. Are you able to refinance? Are you able to execute the business plan as you originally thought? No, no, we got stuck. So essentially, we were supposed to get some more funds. So the way that we started it, the Friends Family, we all got together. And our parents were kind of putting money in, our cheerleaders. And so we thought we were going to get some money that we didn't get. So that kind of, you know, it kind of took us a little bit left. So we weren't able to execute. We're in a 13 % hard money loan. So we were trying to figure out like how to make more value in the deal.

32:43So actually what we thought we were going to do probably about six months back is I was looking deeper into the zoning. So we had this whole plan to combine the lots. We need a thousand square feet for each unit. And if we combine the lots, we would have 7 ,000 square feet. And right now we only have four dwellings. So I basically reached out to the city and they were going to allow us to build three more. And that was kind of midway. Once we saw, okay, we went over budget. How do we rectify this and try to bring some more life back into this deal? So looking into the zoning, it looked like there would be a way to do that.

33:19So we started on that on that trek. And then it's just a lot of money. So I reached out to a local company that was going to come out, do a full plan of development. And that in and of itself is going to be 40 ,000. And we were maybe thinking about putting an extra$150 ,000 at the time. So for$40 ,000 to just be just to submit plans, it was something we were like, yeah, we're not going to be able to do this. So we did end up we rented out some of the units. We gutted out the corner store since we didn't do the deli we were planning to. But it actually just turned into a situation where we're like, let's make let's make the best of it now.

33:59We tried. We're bleeding a little bit. let's go ahead and cut our losses and get out of this thing and show that value that we saw with the zoning and everything to another potential investor. So that's how that deals ended up now. We're about to list it soon, actually.

34:13Tony J. Robinson:Interesting. And while you guys are waiting for it to be listed, are you cashflow positive? Are you losing money? Are you breaking in every month? What does the cashflow look like today? No. So right now our monthly payment is about $10 ,000,$1100, and we're making like$6 ,700. So we're still coming out of pocket, even though it's not as much as before we had any tenants and we were paying the full$10 ,000. We were able to cushion the blow just by getting tenants in there and getting some money going. But unfortunately, another thing I learned is that when you gut a commercial building and then you want to put a tenant in there, a lot of times the tenant will say, okay, what's my TIA or my a tenant improvement allowance.

34:57And so with that came on, because we were thinking, we'll just run it out to somebody else, no problem. And then we were like, oh, they want$55 a square foot to be able to make the property their own. And that's a part of how the commercial world works. And we had no idea about that.

35:14Ashley Kehr:Jordan, what will you end up making off of this property when you sell it? So this property, we actually will end up making, I say nothing, but probably around like 50 to 70 ,000, but we've put in total. So we were paying monthly payments. We've been paying, we've paid at least like 275 ,000, um, overall with overages and monthly payments. So it's definitely a monetary loss. Um, and what we're doing is taking those lessons. Oddly enough, now I love commercial even more, but we're taking, you know, so much about it now. I mean, You have little things like, oh, yeah, I know you've got to do this.

35:54Ashley Kehr:I'm learning a lot in this episode. No, we're definitely going to take – we're taking a$200 ,000 loss. And I say we – I'm going to say me because I feel like I'm really the frontrunner in this whole thing. So I like to take the burden of the responsibility because I kind of had this dream and kind of brought my family and friends along with me. So it's important to me for us to be able to, you know, get out of this, collect what we can, regroup, get our lessons and systems down and move forward. I think I was listening to a podcast. I think you mentioned it, too, Ashley. I think you took that break.

36:29Right. To kind of reset.

36:30Ashley Kehr:Yeah. I sold a property. I had a property for one year and I sold it just to like ease the burden. I'm like, OK, one less property to take care of. Like and I we had bought that property in cash. I took the cash to like give me time to like put those systems and processes in place, like reevaluate. Like at the time I was just barely getting into property management software, like everything was pen and paper. So like I definitely needed that. And like think about paying to go to college. Like that's your college education on commercial real estate that you just paid for with this big lesson, this education that you got from doing this deal.

37:09Ashley Kehr:and Jordan, I am so grateful that you came on today to talk about this deal because most people only come on and talk about the wins that they had and this ended up in a way, like you have turned this into a win because you got this education, you have this lesson and now you know what to do for the next deals going forward.

37:33Tony J. Robinson:Ash, you make an incredible point and Jordan, I guess my question to you is when we fail at something, it can oftentimes shake our confidence and it can make us question whether or not we're going down the right path. And it's just natural human tendency. How have you avoided feeling that way after going through such a big deal that didn't turn out the way you wanted it to? How are you still finding the confidence to move forward and to go on to the next deal? It's actually listening to, I'll attribute a lot of it to BiggerPockets and also Alex Hermosi, who I listen to a lot. And so when I go back and think of all the things that happened and I'm like, okay, so does it make sense that this happened?

38:20Instead of like getting very emotional about it? Okay. I had no experience. I have no idea about commercial. Does it make sense that there would be mistakes? I mean, yes. Okay. Does it make sense that I wouldn't know about a tenant improvement allowance? Yes. And so I think at the same time, it's kind of a balance because I feel a lot of responsibility. And trust me, there have been some nights where I'm like, dang, I hope my family doesn't disown me. Terrible things are happening. And then at the same time, I'm thinking, well, if I'm the leader and I'm the one who brought us all here, if everybody else is scared, I'm scared too.

38:57But let them know that and let them know, hey, I'm scared, but I'm with you. We're in this together. As long as we can write down and list out what happened and how we can improve next time, then it would make sense that when we move forward and we do the next deal that, you know, we would learn from those lessons and apply those lessons.

39:16Ashley Kehr:That transparency and communication is, I think, such a powerful tool when you're in a situation like this where other people are affected and impacted, that some of the times a lot of that fear, that uneasiness can be kind of alleviated by being transparent and communicating. Like, if you go through the BiggerPockets forums, you'll see people bash syndicators, like to no end. And one of the biggest complaints is that they weren't transparent and they did not communicate what was going on. And all of a sudden, there's this huge capital call that nobody expected because their questions weren't being answered.

39:59Ashley Kehr:No one was responding, all these things. And I think that's a lesson for everyone in any type of relationship, whether it's a vendor, whether it's a tenant, no matter what, that transparency and that communication, I think is such a valuable tool and resource to have as a real estate investor.

40:17Tony J. Robinson:Ash, I also think that leadership is something that really shows itself when times are tough. and it's easy to be a leader when things are going great it's a lot harder to be a leader when things aren't going according to plan and i i think that all of us should maybe find some motivation where jordan that you've handled the situation by having that thought to yourself of well i need to be the steady hand while everyone else is freaking out to make sure that we can execute to the best of our ability and i think that's that's what rookies need to come away with is like things aren't always going to go according to plan, but it's how you respond in those moments that makes all the difference.

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45:22Tony J. Robinson:Lennar is an equal housing opportunity builder. All right. So we're back here with Jordan and coming out of this kind of brutal commercial construction project. Jordan Serenat, four half rehabbed townhomes. So you find another seven figure deal. And I love that you just kind of keep shooting for these big deals. Give us a quick rundown on this one. Yeah. So this one, another one that was on market. And it was for some reason it was listed in the commercial section. I think just because it was a package and it wasn't a partnership dissolution. Well, I guess it was a partnership dissolution, but not for any negative reasons.

46:00I think they were all just older gentlemen and they just kind of went it out. So the property had initially been listed for around 1.7 million and it was like 112 days on market. And I've always listened on bigger pockets. And it's like, if you can find that 90 day, that 60 day, you know, days on market, then that could be a good opportunity. And they also had a couple of price drops. So we're like, hey, what we're going to do is we're going to get all these properties. It's a package of homes. We're going to get these. We're going to rehab them and we're going to turn them into short-term rentals.

46:35And AirDNA was saying that if we made them four bed, three bath properties, that we could make something like a hundred thousand a year in revenue. so we're like okay this is awesome um so we end up getting the deal for 1.25 million and we got a 50 000 seller credit we ended up using the same hard money lender um because we just had that relationship already um so we went with them if one funny story about this is that on appraisal day the other listing agent was there um as he should have been trying to fight to show like hey hey, look, we have this appraisal. This is how much it's worth. This is how much it's worth.

47:14Make sure it appraises. So that was kind of funny. But walking these, we thought it was just going to be some cosmetic fix-ups. This one, we had a$210 ,000 rehab budget. So we were looking at like 50K for each townhome. And that one actually went a little bit more according to plan. There weren't any big structural or surprises or anything. We did have an HVAC go out that we had to replace. So that was a big expense coming in. We were actually able to include into the rehab. So I think that was cool too. Now that we had that relationship with our contractor, we had a couple slip ups with the contractors.

47:59And then we actually started working with the subcontractor that worked with one of the contractors. So working with them has been working with them has been awesome. I realized going into the zoning that I couldn't make it a short-term rental, which then kind of changed our plans.

48:17Ashley Kehr:So during this time that you're doing the rehab, things like that, how did you structure the partnership on this deal? And was it any different than the last deal that you did? No, it wasn't any different. We actually, we didn't, we weren't thinking as much about, you know, putting each property into its own LLC or anything. We just all got together. The DBA is everybody eats because we want everybody to eat, you know, friends and family. So yeah, that was the plan with the partnership. Nothing really different. As far as roles and responsibilities, I think that's something we could have set out like in the operating agreement, which we really didn't.

48:57I was just rolling with it. We're rolling through. We're trying to figure things out. So I kind of just found a like rocket lawyer contract online and we just rolled with that. But yeah, for the most part, the partnership was the same.

49:10Tony J. Robinson:So Jordan, as you've gone through these different deals, what's one either debt or maybe partnership mistake that you want every rookie to avoid? I would say as far as partnership, just kind of going back to that, the roles and responsibilities and making sure that everybody knows what they're doing because we were, you know, friends and family, it was kind of just handshake. We know what's going on. We'll kind of just figure it out and go with the flow. And I think that's a, that's a huge mistake just because especially with a friendship or, you know, your family, you want to make sure you have those expectations set out.

49:47Um, cause it gets even worse. Like you don't want to lose a business partner and a friend, or you don't want to lose a business partner and a family member that you can't talk to. Um, so I think they're just making sure everything's ironed out. And then also as far as debt, I would just say, make sure you're reading all the terms and the terms of the deal. Because one thing that we came across is I thought when I was looking and they told me, hey, if you need an extension, it's going to be no problem on the hard money loan. So I'm like, okay, great. So we hit our year mark and I go to ask for the extension and they're like, okay, it's just going to be a rollover fee.

50:24And I'm like, huh? Like, yeah, rollover fee. It's going to be 50 grand. And I'm like, what? So that was on the Cary Street one, which kind of, you know, that's why I brought our profits or will be not even our profits, but being able to recoup some of that money got lowered even more because of this fee that I just assumed I'm talking cool with the lender and they're just going to extend me out.

50:46Ashley Kehr:That's crazy to have that type of like unexpected expense to come up not knowing about. I mean, That's a big chunk of money. And I think it just goes back to the many lessons that you have learned and shared with us throughout this episode is that having reserves or access to additional capital can really help you in these times when you find these unexpected expenses, especially when you are doing big projects like this or rehabs. And even if you're just doing, you know, buying a property turnkey, the HVAC could go out in that too, not only a big commercial building. And that still is like, I have a little tiny duplex that I paid, let's see, I think it was like$72 ,000 for, okay?

51:34Ashley Kehr:This year, the HVAC system went. It was an$8 ,000 expense. Just because it's a cheaper, smaller property, these things are still expensive and you need to save for them. But Jordan, thank you so much for coming on today, sharing your story and your journey with everyone and the lessons that you have learned along the way. Where can people find you and reach out for more information about your journey? I'm on Instagram. I'm not very active, but hopefully I will be soon. It's at realestatescrogs. So it's an abbreviation of my last name. A lot of my friends call me Scroggs because it's easier, I guess.

52:12And then also, hopefully I'll see some people, you know, some rookies at BPCon. I was about to go ahead and get my ticket and everything.

52:19Ashley Kehr:So yeah, we can wait to see there. Yeah, yeah. Hopefully we can connect there. And I love, like you said, talking about the losses and the experiences, because I think that's what builds that better, better connection instead of, you know, all I do is win with everything. So thanks, y 'all. Well, Jordan, thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on today. I'm Ashley. He's Tony. And this has been an episode of Real Estate Rookie.