He “Stacked” 5 Properties in 6 Years: Now He Lives and Travels for Free!

19:49Again, taking action, knowing this is an up and coming neighborhood. It's exactly what we want. We went under contract on that property. First time we walked through in a hard hat, got a great deal on it. So that didn't close for another nine months, but at the same time, having that confidence was, we were a Lake family. So My grandparents had a lake house that we built a ton of memories on for 25 years. I have a boat out on Lake Norman that I was like, you know what? If I'm going to have a forever home, I want it to be on the lake. If you're familiar with Charlotte, there's Lake Norman, 25 minutes north.

20:25Lake Wiley, 25 minutes south. Lake Norman is where MJ, you also have the NASCAR drivers, all the Hornets, all the Panthers players live. It's a lot more expensive. It's also more saturated. So for me as an investor and someone who's trying to get a good deal, I'm like, okay, let me go to Lake Wiley. It's also on the South Carolina side where there's the bottom 5 % in taxes. So I'm thinking that way strategically and just started to look at things. My same thing, business partner who has uncles who have bought property, sat on it for five or 10 years. I had conversations with them. I had no idea what to look out for right in land.

21:06So they said, hey, here's the things you want to do. Here's the questions you want to ask. These are the things you want to go through with your agent as well as the others. And then you can vet those things out. So going through that process, went and saw some, found a property that I really liked. And threw out a lowball offer. It was at$300 ,000. And I said, Hey, let's go to 50. And I was, but it was during COVID. So I knew that there was probably pressure on right, the seller, and it had been sitting there for a while. So I knew there was probably pressure on the seller to offload it. And I, you know, building that relationship with the agent, understanding his priorities, why he owned it, come to find out his son was the one who spoke too soon and threw back the offer at two 50.

21:48And I was at a friend's wedding and I started laughing. I'm like, there's no, or 270, sorry, encountered. And I just started laughing. I'm like, wow, this really worked. All right, let's go lower and went back. And then he got kind of pissed and went, tried to go up to 75. We landed on 270. But the funding piece came from, again, going back to building the right foundation was investing 10 % of every paycheck from my Philips account from my W2 each quarter we got, or each time you bought, you got 15 % off the stock. So I already knew I was walking into money at a 15 % discount. And over that five year period that I was there, I was able to double that stock.

22:29So I used that for 43 ,000 of the down payment, and then took out a HELOC on the other, on the first town whom I bought to use as that other part, just because I didn't want to get capital gains taxes from selling my stock since I was in that higher income bracket at the time. So there was a lot of pieces, but that's how I funded that. And yeah, I think it just, again, it was just like, you got to take action. I get hit up by sellers all the time with mailers and, and text and all that asking for the property. And yeah, some, sometimes I want to text something funny back and I'm like, no, I'm just not responding.

23:06Then they're just going to hammer me. So that's, that's kind of how I, uh, how I got into it. And yeah, it's, it's been a great investment and, you know, looking to build on it three to five years, you know, whenever we decide the time's right.

23:17Tony Robinson:So Ross, let me understand. So it's a, it's a single family home, but there's also land to build on it as well. Am I understanding that correctly? So it's just land. So it's three floors. Yeah. Yeah. So three fourths of an acre. It's about 130 waterfront, 130 feet of shoreline and it's waterfront in a cove on Lake Wiley. So I saw that as right. It's going to be able to build on it. I think the cool part is, is there's another half acre next to it that the owner owns as well, but there was an easement on it. so he's been holding on to that now and the agent now has come back to me and said hey are you interested in it because I could potentially build an ADU on that and that's you know that's where the creative part of building those relationships comes into play Ross can you explain what an

24:03Ashley Kerr:easement is and why you didn't purchase it at first because of the easement I'm gonna say I gotta go back and it's it's not it's not great um do you know do you know what the easement like the restriction is for the easement? So you can't build a dock on that property. So that was one of the biggest red, not red flags, but one of the reasons I didn't buy it. Cause I wanted to build a dock, build a house on it, but it's cornered next to it, but there was an easement from some water runoff. But if you were to purchase both lots, it doesn't matter. Cause you could build an ADU on it, but to build your own home and not be able to build that dock, that's kind of where it could be a challenge.

24:41Ashley Kerr:So that easement is for you to have water runoff onto their property. Yeah. Then for the land you own now. Yeah. So it makes sense for you to buy it rather than it'd be a lot harder to sell it to anybody else because you already have access to the property because of that easement. Yeah.

24:58Tony Robinson:So Ross, what's the plan then? Because I know obviously it's like a kind of long-term buy and hold, but at what point, or maybe if I frame the question this way. What do you think needs to happen in order for you to say now is the time to build? When we want to move out of the city. We're a mile from the city and all our friends. So we're just kind of still at that stage of life. And yeah, when when the time comes, being part of my own business. Yeah. So Ross, just for our viewers that are coming along with us, just give us like the 30 ,000 foot timeline of your portfolio. So you started with the house hack and just walk us through what happened from there to kind of where you are today.

25:37Yeah. So bought the first house hack 2019, um, went under contract on the second property in June of 2020, uh, purchased the land in October of 2020 closed on that, you know, second town home that we went on our contract, um, in May of 2021. Um, and then from there lived there, started renting out the first house as a long-term rental. And then, um, me and my, But as my partner and I learned the ropes, decided, hey, let's go and buy another property. When the market and rates went up, we saw it was a good buying opportunity. And in October 2023, purchased a two-bed, two-bath condo and started to do medium-term rentals.

26:20My wife actually had one. So when she moved in with me in January 2023, she actually started doing hers. So I had been studying Furnish Finder. being in the healthcare industry, knew that and started to do that strategy. And then her and I purchased the home that we're in now in February of 2024 and moved a mile up the street because we needed more closet space because it wasn't just me as a guy. And then we got a two and a half year old bulldog and we needed a little patch of grass out back for him to run around.

26:50Tony Robinson:So I think one of the big questions that we always get from our rookie audience is, how do we structure the partnership? And you've taken down a couple of deals with someone else. How were you structuring the partnership and what conversations went into trying to identify the best way to structure that partnership? Yeah. So I think the first thing is you always mean, you always want to be aligned with your partner on trust. That's the number one thing, no matter what the numbers say, no matter, Oh my gosh, this is a great deal. It's like, do you know, do you like, do you trust that person? Because this is a huge decision.

27:21And And even if they're friends, right, do you trust that they're going to be, you know, if you're both type A and you're both really organized, like you might butt heads. But if one's really good at one thing, one's really good at another, like that's where it's a really good partnership. And you have to be able to have those candid, open, honest conversations because life changes happen. So that's probably the most important point before you get started, because I've heard horror stories from people that I know, obviously, you know, people in the business. So that's number one. but I think if you go back to like what I was talking about, these conversations started in 2016, right?

27:58We didn't purchase our first deal until 2020. So those were those we're learning, we're figuring out what's important to one another. And we're seeing like, we want to build a future together. And yes, we're best friends, but at the same time, like we both know what one another is good at and one another is not great at. So aligning those things and just, We had Tuesday weekly calls every single week at 5 p.m. And he had a brand-newborn daughter, a W-2 job, right? So we made sure that we were doing those things. And we aligned it where even though we house hacked, we put 50 % down each. And then that's where we both were on the deed and then for both properties.

28:41So loan was out in my name for the first one. we had his name on the deed. And then from there, you know, if you wanted to roll it into an LLC, you could, um, there's a specific thing we can get into on that property since we're at a 2.75 rate that right. There's, there's sometimes they may not want you to, but yeah, there's, there's strategies of, even if you have that partner, you know, do you roll it in LLC or how do you structure that? So happy to dive into, you know, how we did that.

29:08Tony Robinson:I mean, I just appreciate that you started with before the structure, just, Hey, here's everything that happened before we even had that conversation. And I think that's a point that Ash and I try and drive home often is that without the alignment, without the communication, without getting to know, like and trust each other beforehand, it's hard to even have a good foundation for a partnership. And ideally, you want to date a little bit before you jump into something. Like you said, it was four years of you guys going back and forth before you actually made the decision to buy together. And I do think that's the best approach.

29:39Tony Robinson:Now, Ross, you've built a system around building your business. But you've also got a really unique skill set when it comes to credit cards and points. And you found a unique way to merge your business and your credit card points in a way that I think more Rickies need to know about. So we're going to go over what that strategy is after a quick word from today's show sponsors.

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33:10Tony Robinson:And I want to talk about that. Credit card points, maybe we can start with a quick definition, but how can a rookie investor safely use credit cards to finance things like renovations or furnishings without going into bad debt? Yeah. So there's two sides, right? If you're buying your personal home, using a card to purchase those furnishings, I always recommend depending on, and this just depends on where you're at and level of spend. There's different cards. So one of the best ways to earn the most points is by a welcome offer. So if you have a$5 ,000 expense and you spend that in the first three months, you then can earn, let's just say it's 80 to 100 ,000 points.

33:54You're getting a big bang for your buck. If you're for another example, that's what I did when I bought my first townhome is open Chase Sapphire Reserve because I was traveling a lot. You know, most of my income goes towards travel. So I was able to earn that, you know, big welcome bonus. Another example, though, is from a from a strategic standpoint and also not going into debt would be when my wife and I bought this house. We had just gotten engaged. You know, we knew we were about to pay a lot of money for a wedding. Um, and right. Like for us, we were putting down money that we again, took action.

34:30We weren't even planning on buying a house. And the fact that we did enclose within 60 days, like we weren't trying to bring another 10, 15 grand to furnish the property right then and there. So being able to understand there are 0 % interest credit cards that you can get. So my suggestion is don't go to whatever the furniture store, home Depot finance the card with them, get the cards that have the right amount of points, whether that's Chase, Amex, Capital One, because those are the banks that you then can use those points to go transfer and travel. But that 0 % interest strategy is very key.

35:05If you want to have just an additional float, a little bit of leverage, those type of things to then not have to come up with that capital right then and there. And then you have to make sure one, that you have the minimum balance paid off on auto pay. And that's really it. But But if you miss that, then that money is due at that time. So just always make sure that you have those things in place. So that's on the personal side. And we're happy to dive into the business side and how my partner and I learned that, how I help investors now, those more strategic ways. But yeah, if you're wanting to do that, that's very simple on the furnishings.

35:43And then there's some other fun stuff that's coming out around mortgages, landlording, all that stuff that we can dive into.

35:49Ashley Kerr:Well, I think too, with a 0 % interest credit card, not only just furnishing, but rehab materials. That's what I've gotten the 0 % cards for is to do the rehab. And then either when I sell the property or I refinance it, I just pay the card off. And like some of them, like I think the most recent one I had done was like 12 months, 0%. But if you made like your on-time minimum payment for like six months, they would extend it to 18 months. That's a really long time, especially if you're not doing a huge, huge project to be able to, you know, refinance or, you know, sell the property to be able to pay that off before the interest kicks in on that, that card.

36:34I was going to say the renovation is key, right? And if you're doing prime example, when we first moved into this home, we wanted to, you know, the other homes that I owned, you know, I bought on my wife wasn't there. So we were sticking with the flat white paint, but when we moved in here, right, she wanted to have the drenched all, you know, same color, right? Do it all, which it looks great. But what we had to do is pay contractors with cards. And again, when we had those expenses, we had to decide how do we want to do that. So having that 0 % interest was really key on the personal side. And same thing when we did when my business partner, Mike and I did a rehab, a light rehab floors, you know, cabinets and paint, same thing.

37:16We did the Chase Business Unlimited Inc., which is 0 % interest. We were able to get that$100 ,000, well,$100 ,000, I wish, 100K welcome bonus and points from Chase. And then that translates into one business class flight worth$5 ,600 on Qatar Q Suites in a lay down seat that I just took in April on our honeymoon. So like that's where, right, maximizing and optimizing those is really key.

37:44Tony Robinson:Ross, let me ask, because I think just hearing all these different cards you're throwing out, like I'm already overwhelmed. So what is the system or tool that you use to keep track of all of your different credit cards and the kind of bonuses or intro bonuses that you're on? How does someone do all this without losing track of everything? Yeah, for sure. So there's a couple tools, but just to keep it simple for tracking, you have a ward wallet and then you have card pointers. So a ward wallet, you can keep all your cards. You have all your cards, you have the different points in there. And if you have different banks like Chase, Capital One, Amex, or if you just have one, you can track it there.

38:23If you want it simple, stay with one bank, makes it easy, right? But I recommend Chase, Capital One, Amex. and then for bonuses, offers, all that, card pointers. It's an app that you can go download. We've had, we just actually released our podcast episode with Brooke, who's a director of marketing there. She does a live demo, kind of explains that on our podcast. So if you wanna listen to that, go check that out. It's really helpful. And then a word wallet we have coming on as well. So those are just two simple tools to track. And then obviously you have your different bank apps, but yeah, it can get overwhelming.

38:59at first. So I think it's always just like figure out again, what's your budget? What do you feel comfortable using it on? And if you just want one simple solution, that's totally fine. Don't, again, like real estate, don't go down the rabbit hole on Reddit and shiny card object syndrome, because you will dive into the hobby very deep. But I think it's always, again, going back to what's most important to you and what's going to fit your lifestyle the best.

39:24Tony Robinson:Ross, one follow-up question for me, because sometimes we work with, as real estate investors, we work with vendors who maybe don't invoice, you know, and maybe you're paying them from Zelle or Venmo or whatever it may be. And obviously I can't use Zelle and use a credit card. Do you have a solution for folks that maybe aren't from a vendor perspective, aren't sending invoices? Yeah. So we have a product integration with a company called Melio. So they, you can actually, so from a business standpoint, you can utilize that. If you aren't, if you don't have an LLC or if you're doing it from a personal standpoint, there's one called Plastique.

40:01It's with a Q at the end. And that's actually a couple of guys from Amex who created that one. But you can pay if you're just doing like a personal home for that. Like, so the example that I use when my wife and I repaint our house, we use Plastique. If I have any, just say something goes down with a boat or something that's personal, use Plastique. Melio for anything else on the business side. And you get hit with a 2.9 % fee. But at the end of the day, if I'm looking at that fee, the example that I used for the 100 ,000 chase points to business class, right? I'm getting five, six, seven times my points.

40:39I'm not worried about that fee, right? And if you're a business owner, that fee can be written off. So that's just another tax strategy that you can utilize. And for people who are doing more real estate investing, like we work with clients who there's developers who have materials, labor, right? a lot of that where their vendors may not take card. So if you're doing some of those flips, rehabs, like that's where there's big money. And I mean, I see people who are missing out on, you know, six figures, seven figures a year of doing that and just stepping in and making those minor shifts. You translate that into vacations for your family where you weren't getting rewarded at all.

41:17So it just comes down to asking the vendor or just figuring out what's the best way to go about this.

41:23Ashley Kerr:You know, I was wondering about that fee. I didn't know how much that would be as I haven't used either of those companies or heard of those websites before. So I'm definitely going to check that out. But like you think about it in like almost on any other payment platform, you're paying a fee anyways. Like I pay a lot of my contractors through like a payroll. It's like gusto, but you can do 1099. And like, I'm getting charged a fee anyways. Like I have to pay a monthly fee anyways to them to do that. The way I pay my cleaners, I just found this out yesterday. I've only been paying them through this one software for two weeks.

42:00Ashley Kerr:So it hasn't gone through a full month yet. It's like a 7 % fee they're charging me to pay my cleaners through this. And I'm like, okay, I got to figure out if this is worth the convenience that it offers or change it to something else. But it's like that 2.9 % doesn't sound that bad. I mean, how many people actually pay with cash for anything anymore. They're paying that fee anyways with markups that people do at different, you know, restaurants or retail, things like that. So everywhere you're getting charged. Yeah. And there's, yeah, you'd be surprised how much, how many dollars sometimes are being missed.

42:37But Ashley, to your point, if you spend more and you're an established flipper or developer, um, and you're starting to do more of that and you're spending over thresholds of, let's just say a million, we partner with Melio and have specific product integrations that you can then negotiate that rate down, right? If they know you're funneling in a ton of money, right? You, right. We have the connections that we can make and say, Hey, this person's spending, they're getting business. They're going to happily do that. And then also there's some strategies too, where sometimes if you're already paying via ACH, you could say, Hey, I'm going to pay it with a card.

43:12And then you could also then go back to them and say, well, well, you know what, maybe I want to pay with ACH. Could you just take that 3 % fee off? And then if they cut that 3 % fee, go to Emilio or Plastique, pay it. You're coming out net even and you're getting six figures or however much you're spending on points. So there's different creative solutions that you can do. Everything's negotiable as you guys know.

43:33Ashley Kerr:I think another point to hit on this too is if you're going to take the vacation anyways, you're going to spend that money anyways, but why not get it way discounted paying that 2.9 % for getting at least minimum a thousand dollars if you get the 100k bonus points plus whatever you spent to get that you get those points on top of the the hundred thousand so uh yeah i love credit card travel hacking and my family has been able to do a lot more travel than i ever imagined

44:05Tony Robinson:because i am definitely not as advanced as you are uh ashton it comes to the travel points and And as we're talking, I'm like kicking myself because my wife and I, we renovated a hotel last year and we probably spent 350K or so renovating the hotel. And we did it all with a debit card. And part of it was because it was a partnership. There were multiple people involved and we had this new LLC that we had set up and there wasn't a credit card for this new LLC with all these partners. So like, hey, let's just put it all into the bank account. We'll swipe it that way. And afterwards, it's like, man, I should have just like used my own credit card and reimburse myself, you know, but I guess, Ross, let me, let me ask, right?

44:40Tony Robinson:Like you have a partner on some of these deals. So how do you guys split the points? Like, what do you get? What do you guys do with the points if it's a partnership? Yeah. So at the end of the year, we just split them down the middle. So you're able to, so like for Chase, for example, he's able to call them and say, Hey, I want to, you know, send these to Ross Alcorn since that's a, that's a business unlimited ink. If you have a Chase Sapphire preferred or reserve, you can connect those and send those points to that other person.

45:10Ashley Kerr:As long as they're like a member of the LLC. Exactly. So I'm an authorized user on that card. So he opened the card and that's a strategy too is have one person open the card and then you can start to strategically align because there's things with, and we're going down a rabbit hole here, but with Chase, there's something called 524 where if you've opened five personal cards within 24 months, they won't allow you to, and that's for Chase only, they won't allow you to open another card. So when you start to get into the points game, you kind of want to figure out like, hey, Chase is my bank that they give 0 % interest cards.

45:46They have the best transferable points. Like, make sure you're doing that. That's I've been solely focused on that. Now I'm getting more into other ones. But like those are some things. And you can do the same thing with Capital One and Amex. So like when partners, right, we have, you know, developers, you know, flippers, people that have partners. And at the end of the year, they say, hey, Ross, we want to go on a vacation. whether that's a quarterly retreat, whether that's end of year, or we want to just take our families, right? Maybe it's not together. How do we mix, you know, how do we get those points to each partner?

46:18There's ways to strategically do that with people on those. So that's, you know, that's a little bit more advanced, but that's another strategy. So there are ways to split it where it's not like partner one gets card. All right, Ross, you're screwed. You don't get any points, right?

46:35Ashley Kerr:my partner I'm the one that times it up I'm the one that does the people I just have before we wrap up Tony I have one more like quick thing real quick is that I think that old strategy also works really well where you can like divvy up the points it's like say you know I'm my partner and I like I have Hyatt status or something where like maybe he can take the the Hyatt points and then transfer them to me if it's like our mutual credit card but he was the main person that opened it, but like I have the, you know, the benefits or whatever that I could book in stuff too. So, and that's what's nice too.

47:10If you're doing a partnership with someone that you're friends with and you like to take those vacations, like we get to benefit from those. We got to go to Greece last year, right? We get, we got to go celebrate like next year. We want to do Turks and Caicos for our 35th birthday together. So it's like, those are the type of things, right? Where it's not just like, Oh, we're getting the best deal. We're credit card hacking. It's like, no, They create actual cool memories. And actually, like you said, you're flying business class live flat to and from Europe.

47:34Ashley Kerr:Yeah, my kids don't know yet. So it's going to be a surprise to them.

47:39Tony Robinson:I think the business idea, Ash, that we need to go out and execute on is just how can we get all the people that we know that do renovations to use our credit cards? And then they just pay us the cash and we get all the points for their transactions. If we can figure that out, then we're set for life.

47:52Ashley Kerr:I was just going to say, why don't you buy another hotel? I'll open a credit card in my name and you can just use the credit card. I'll get you a nice big credit limit spend on that credit card and you go ahead and use it. And I'll be like a private money lender. There you go. If you guys need and if you guys need business bankers to up the credit limits, let me know because I work directly with those and they can get those. Well, Ross, thank you so much for coming on today. We loved talking about your journey, your experience and the credit card hacking. where can people find you and reach out to you?

48:25Yeah. So you can just find me at itineraryboss.com. All my social medias, itineraryboss. And then we actually have a free points and miles cheat sheet. That's going to get you right. How to start earning points, how to start redeeming, maximizing. And then it also comes with a transfer partner cheat sheet, which shows you how to transfer those chase Amex capital one points. And then it also has a multiplier where it really just breaks down each of the cards and you can decide which one's right for you. So we make it super simple. That way you can go do that. And yeah, itinerary boss. And if you want to connect, that's where you can find me.

48:59Thanks so much for having me, Ashley and Tony. It's been great.

49:02Ashley Kerr:Yeah. Thank you, Ross. I'm Ashley. He's Tony. And we'll catch you guys on the next episode of Real Estate Rookie.

49:08Tony Robinson:Hey, rookies. If you're watching this, we want you to apply to be a guest on the Real Estate Rookie podcast. That's right. Ashley and I are looking for amazing stories just like yours to be a part of our Real Estate Rookie Podcast. Now look, you don't need to be an expert. You don't need to have done thousands of deals. Even if you've done one deal, your story could help inspire the next listener.

49:26Ashley Kerr:As a rookie investor, especially if you just got your first deal, it is all fresh in your minds and you are the best person to tell your story, give your experience on how you got it done to help someone else get their first deal.

49:39Tony Robinson:So head over to biggerpockets.com slash guest if you want to be a part of our show. Again, that's biggerpockets.com slash guest. And we'd love to have you on. I'm Glenn Washington, host of Snap Judgment, the award-winning storytelling podcast from KQED. And every week, Snap deals a new card, like jumping on Rihanna's private plane, or the accidental bank robber, or even the man who was swallowed by a hippo. What? Pick a card. Any card. Tap to listen now to Snap Judgment from KQED on Spotify.