How to Stop Kids from Interrupting

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1:27color Xbox wireless controller. Learn more at windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th. Terms at aka.ms slash college pc. Hi, this is Janet Lansbury. Welcome to Unruffled. Well, today I have a thoughtful question from a parent specifically about her toddler interrupting the conversations that she's having with her partner at the end of the day. But the thoughts that I want to share with her are actually about a lot of other things, too, that concern us as parents. Boundaries of all kinds. Understanding readiness. Approaching mealtime successfully. And what it really means to be respectful to our child versus perhaps being indulgent or permissive.

2:20So here's this parent's note to me. Hi Janet, long-time listener to your podcast. I love all of your work. It guides my perspectives, routines, and interactions with my two boys and has resulted in such a joyful motherhood experience for me. My three-year-old is incredibly bright, vibrant, verbal, and very used to adult attention and attunement from me and my husband. We have a six-month-old baby, and while that transition felt very much like we were moving through something big, I believe my toddler did so with such grace and continues to. It is hard sometimes, but with support, he goes through his emotional waves and comes out the other side refreshed.

3:02Anyways, my question is actually about the dynamic between me, my husband, and my three-year-old. I'm home with my boys all day. My husband is a teacher and gets home in the evenings. My husband gets one-on-one time with our three-year-old when he gets home. They usually go in the yard together, do chores together, etc. Then we have family dinner together, and this is often where things become tricky. I crave adult conversation, and my husband wants to share about his day. When the two of us talk in front of my toddler, he will start escalating in volume, interrupting, asking questions, or he might just bluntly say, Mama, Dada, stop talking.

3:41We have, up until this point, acknowledged him, said something like, I'm going to finish telling Dada this story, and then we can talk together. Or we might just go back and forth between talking, acknowledging our son, back to talking, and so forth. In general, my son gets squirrely and antsy whenever adults are having conversations without him. I've always thought it was more than reasonable to have grown-up conversations and just let him know that I hear him and will be with him shortly. But recently, I got to thinking about what it would be like to be the only one in the room who doesn't speak the language everyone else was speaking.

4:18That would feel really lousy, especially to my three-year-old who is so used to feeling included in the rhythms of our home. We take him into consideration always, and this is an area that feels like you're just going to have to learn to be okay not being a part of this. Other than this, he's great at playing independently. He doesn't always need adult attention by any means, but being left out of conversation seems to be specifically hard for him, which I can understand. I think I'm conflicted because respectful parenting to me means thinking about reciprocity, relationship, and treating children in a way that keeps their whole personhood at the forefront.

4:58And this is an area that feels exclusive of him to me. It's also tricky because it's something that happens on a daily basis, although it still feels like I barely talk to my husband these days. I go to bed extremely early as I'm exhausted by the end of the day and try to get as much rest as I can, knowing my baby will be up in the night often. It's hard to prioritize everything that I care about and want to tend to. I know the answer isn't never talk to your husband in front of your child, but I guess what I'm wondering is what is reasonable, when, how much, and how to frame it? And I suppose also, am I over-considering my child?

5:37Thank you so much for everything you've given me and my family. So, wow, this parent is, like I said before, so thoughtful and considerate of her child and has obviously very much embraced this idea of respect. So I'm looking forward to helping this parent navigate those instincts she has and giving her a bit of an outside perspective to see what she might be missing and how to make this work better for her because she deserves to get to talk to her husband at the end of the day. So what I would like to offer are three bits of guidance. The first one is to have our expectations in order. And this is the way I would approach any kind of, well, any situation with a child because having those reasonable expectations is how we're going to ensure that we succeed in getting what we want and that our child can handle whatever boundaries we give them.

6:45And I'm not saying our child can't always handle the boundaries that we give them if we give them with respect, but they may not respond in a way that we want them to. They have a much better chance of responding positively to our boundaries if we know what to expect. Now, in this case, this parent said, we have a six-month-old baby. While that transition felt very much like we were moving through something big, I believe my toddler did so with such grace and continues to. It's hard sometimes, but with support, he goes through his emotional waves and comes out the other side refreshed. So, wow, this parent is understanding that process of her child moving through his feelings and being able to share them with his parents and be accepted and just allowed to feel that and get to the other side.

7:35It sounds like they're handling that beautifully. And even still, there's more minor, just little intense feelings that are going to come up and be present when a child is going through a transition like this. She said that he's always had a hard time with adults talking in front of him when it doesn't include him. But I would say, especially now, especially in this temporary transitional phase of this family's life, in this passage. So the reason I'm saying all this is because, and I think this parent is on this page mostly, that it will help to expect that he's going to have a hard time sometimes with these adult conversations.

8:19Also because, as his parent realizes, this boy is used to being included and having all this adult attention and attunement. That is often the way the oldest child gets treated. And that's what he's come to expect, that he sort of becomes the center of things when he's there. So then here they are at the end of the day. He gets this wonderful one-on-one time with his dad when his dad gets home. And then they have a family dinner together. And this is when the parent says things become tricky. Magda Gerber had such a simple way of making her points. And in this case, hers was, young children are ready to eat.

9:06They're not ready to dine, at least in these early years. So this is where I question sometimes this huge emphasis on family dinners. What Magda was pointing out is that children's needs at dinnertime or really any mealtime are quite different than ours. We want to unwind and talk together and kind of linger maybe at the table. Our child's geared to eat what they need and be done, get up and leave. And often their mealtimes work better when they're earlier than ours as well. I'm not saying always. So the point of a family meal is the connection, right? And a child can get that from one-on-one attention with a parent.

10:00One of the parents is there with him having his dinner. Now, I'm not saying this family shouldn't do it the way they're doing it, But the expectation that their son, who's very used to all this adult detention, is going to be able to hang out and have the parents talk, it might not be as helpful an expectation as if they realized that for him, it might work better just to eat and then go play. I would just look at this idea that we all have to sit down for dinner together, especially since he's getting one-on-one time with his dad, and he's getting probably lots of one-on-one time with his mom during the day.

10:40Children don't need all this attention from us all day long, and to be at the center of things, and to get to interrupt what other people are doing, and make it about them. So I would consider a couple things in terms of expectations. I wouldn't expect that I'm going to get this comfortable, relaxing, fulfilling conversation with my partner at the end of the day at the dinner table in front of my child. That's a big expectation to have. I'm not saying that it can't happen, but it's not an expectation that I think we can have across the board that this is going to go smoothly. With a three-year-old who's still in this transition of his brother being born.

11:22And the thing is, in a couple of years, when this little boy is five or six or seven, it will gradually become easier. It will also become easier when this parent works on the boundaries I'm going to talk about and the way of understanding respect that will help her child feel more settled in his place in the family. which is not that he gets to grab attention from everyone all the time. This is where what often feels more respectful and kinder is actually giving our child a message that's kind of uncomfortable for them, that they have all this power in the home and that everybody drops everything to talk to them.

12:10Now I want to segue into talking about respect, because this parent has so much respect for her children, clearly, and has put a lot of thought and care into that. Again, with one child, especially, or the oldest child, it can be easy for us to take that almost into like we're elevating them into being an adult when what he needs is to feel cozy in his nest with his two grownups looking out for him and not letting him take over. That is respect. It's respecting his needs at this stage of life. Also, at the same time, respecting him means being fair and respectful to ourselves. We do that with understanding what we can expect of him and respecting ourselves enough to to assert our place in this.

13:06Respecting ourselves means being able to really enjoy that and not have it be a battle. And it will be less a battle when we are confident in our boundaries and, again, our expectations so that we don't have to feel frustrated when we're not getting what we want. Finding a way to make that happen. Maybe it isn't dad giving him all that time with the chores one-on-one. Maybe it's a little of that and then a meal. Maybe dad sits with him while he's having his meal or you all sit together and you consider that an attention time. Now he can play a little before bed or you wait until after bedtime for him, depending on his bedtime.

13:50And you have this conversation then when you can relax and enjoy it. So again, though, respecting a three-year-old isn't about always being so attuned and attentive to him. It's about there being a balance where sometimes I'm giving you 100 % of my attention. Could be just a few minutes here and there in the day. And other times I kind of have to divide between you and your sibling or you and the chores or whatever. And then there's times when I'm really not paying attention to you. I'm paying attention to your other parent or another adult or your sibling. I'm not giving you the sense that you have to be a part of everything, that our life that we've built is all around you.

14:40And this could also be about for us taking up that onus of like the family meal, we've got to make it work. It's often better with so many things to do with parenting to wait for our child's readiness so that they can succeed in that situation with us and have it be a positive for all concerned. I feel like there's not enough emphasis just generally on readiness in terms of all kinds of things that we expect kids to do. And so much is about, well, we got to do this and we got to do that and make sure they get this and that. But readiness matters. It makes the difference between a child feeling like they're coming into it in a way that they can succeed and enjoy it, or they're kind of reaching and getting people annoyed and not feeling like they're succeeding in that.

15:28So this is true with extracurriculars, with things like family dinners even, in my opinion, every kind of stimulation, events that we take them to. Readiness is the factor that makes or breaks, whether this is beneficial or less so. So getting more into this idea of what respect is. This parent, she has this whole questioning that's going on that's so impressive where she's considering like he's getting squirrely. Does that mean it's not fair to him? People are having conversations without him being a part of it. Is he feeling excluded? Again, what I would say is our expectations we want to have in order to understand, yes, he is antsy and there's reasons for that.

16:19The stage of life he's at, the transition that's going on in his house, the fact that it's the end of the day, the fact that he's sitting at a table maybe longer than he can handle easily. But even given all that, no, it's not disrespectful or in any way less respectful for him to know there are conversations that include you, that you're very much a part of. and there are other conversations that don't. There's both going on in life, just the way he's going to have to learn, you know, there's friends that want to be with you and there's friends that don't or sometimes these friends do and sometimes these friends don't.

16:59This is all healthy, natural learning that we can give our children through our self-care and respect for ourselves. We are going to talk to our partner and we're going to feel very confident about it, even though you're trying to interrupt, I don't feel the need to keep telling you, you know, that we're going to talk in a minute. You know, you can say that once, and then just let it go on and try to keep talking in front of your partner as best you can with that confidence that this is the model that he needs to have in his relationship with both of you, that you do have a part that's separate from him.

17:37And while it may seem like this is It's not a happy situation for him. And it's not in a way because he's not used to it. But most children won't accept this anyway. I mean, I remember growing up with Will, we had telephones in those days, like regular telephones, but oh my gosh, the phone would ring, my mother would get on the phone. And I instantly, I mean, she would be on for one second. And already, it just felt like, oh, she's on the phone. Like, we don't want her to be on the phone. We don't want her to be on the phone. I mean, kids aren't inclined to be excited about us not paying attention to them every second.

18:12That's just a frustrating thing. But, you know, if my mother had gotten off the phone and said, all right, all right, I have to get off from this person so I can talk to you. That would have made me feel really weird and got uncomfortable. You know, it was almost like my sisters and I wanted to be able to be frustrated that she was on the phone. We needed that to happen and her to hold that boundary. We didn't want to be these people that had all the power to stop her from doing her adult things. And this parent said, this is an area that feels like you're just going to have to learn to be okay not being a part of this.

18:44And yeah, I mean, that's it right there. It's learning that he goes on and we go on. I mean, he doesn't have to ever learn to be happy about it. But he can learn that, oh, sometimes I don't get what I want with them. And they're not all focusing on me. and I get through that. That's just something that happens in life, in my relationships. That is a really, really important lesson for him to learn. Because imagine if they don't learn this from us, then they've got to try to figure that out with their peers. Coming from square one where, hey, everyone needs to be paying attention to me. That's not going to be helpful to him.

19:24So taking care of ourselves is taking care of our child, always. Even when our child is not giving us permission to take care of ourselves, which they are not likely to do. So I hope that's helping this parent with her conflicted thoughts about respectful parenting. She says it's about reciprocity, relationship, and treating children in a way that keeps their whole personhood at the forefront. Exactly. But reciprocity, it doesn't mean every time you want me, I'm available to you. I mean, and this is all going to be really helpful for this parent to get so confident about and squared away on as her second child is growing because there's going to be a lot of conflict of wants for attention between the two of them.

20:10And then there's going to be other times when she needs to take care of herself and not have that disrupted by somebody wants her right then. So keeping his whole personhood at the forefront is this multi-dimensional person who needs to feel all the feelings as this parent so wonderfully helping him through his emotional waves, as she says. But there's also all these little niggly, they were talking to each other and I wanted their attention. All of those feelings he needs to have to this whole kaleidoscope of feelings that he gets to have as himself. That's being a whole person. It's not helping and be a whole person when we are giving everything up to him and not being whole people ourselves.

20:58And she says it's also tricky because it's something that happens on a daily basis. Yeah, so this is part of the day. This is part of life. There's so many opportunities for him to learn that this goes on and we feel comfortable getting to be ourselves here. And are we expecting it's going to be smooth sailing for him? Absolutely not. That's about our expectations. No. And as much as possible. We're going to try to respect, hey, this is time where he's sitting there stuck here with us at the table. Maybe we won't do it right here. Or we'll do it less right here, because it's not very fulfilling for us anyway.

21:34So we're going to try. But if something comes up and we want to talk about it, we're going to do that. That's being a whole person. And it has to start with respecting ourselves, being the ones who are deciding these things, not leaving it up to a three-year-old child. I love a good family trip as much as anyone, but travel right now is no joke. Flights, hotels, gas, rental cars, it adds up fast. So my goal this year is simple. Plan a trip that fits our budget and avoid that moment when reality shows up in the form of a credit card bill. Monarch is the personal finance app that tracks everything.

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23:09This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home. With agents who close twice as many deals, when you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started at Redfin.com. Own the dream. So what we're talking about here is how setting effective limits begins, like the basis for it is the way we set up our day. And so that's why I would look at having a routine that allows for this time that you and your partner want to have in a way that's respectful to all of you.

24:00And if you are going to make changes, I would let your son know that's respectful to say, you know what, sometimes you have a hard time when daddy and I talk, we really want to talk, we need to talk. So we're going to sit here with you while you're eating. And then after a certain amount of time, or when you're done, daddy and I are going to talk, and we're going to stay at the table and you can go play if you want or just, you know, hang out. But we're going to have a few minutes here. I know sometimes you have a hard time and you're going to want to yell and you're going to want to do all these things maybe and get our attention.

24:32But you know what, we're going to give you our attention at these times and during this time or not for these few minutes, which doesn't mean he's not going to still try to interfere with it, but at least you can feel clean and clear and his expectations can be in order and you can start to set a new pattern for your day, you know, or maybe this is when dad comes home and maybe you don't do the chores or the one-on-one time with him there right away. Maybe this is when dad and I talk and then we're going to be available to you. I mean, that one might be a bit harder for him, but you know, try to work this out.

25:09So there's a routine in your environment that will support your boundaries and make it easier for you. Easier for you, not only in how it affects him, but make it easier for you because you feel comfortable. Hey, we've told him this is the plan. This is a fair plan. Again, it's very fair not to give him attention the whole time in the evening. Very, very fair. it also gives us this confidence, right? Which is so, so, so important. And that's the one thing I feel a little missing in this parent's approach because she is wondering what respect is in terms of her child. And that's making it hard for her to be confident in what she's doing.

25:51And that's the biggest one here for her or for any of us as parents when we set a boundary is knowing that That it's the right thing to do for us and our child. That it's the most loving thing to do for all the reasons I've just been saying. For respect for ourselves, for them, for them to understand what relationships are with people. That he's not the center of it all the time. That he doesn't always get it his way. These are lessons he needs that happen naturally when we take care of ourselves and feel confident about it. when we set this up for ourselves, it's going to become more than us just saying no.

26:30It's how we do things. This is how we do things in the moment. And he's going to get used to that. And what I would say exactly in that moment, when you are at the table and you want to have a word with each other, or you're with another adult and you want to have a word, and he starts piping up and escalating, you let it go for a second. Don't stop everything right away and say, we're going to talk now because he already knows that he senses what he's doing and what you're doing. So give it a moment, pause, hold your pace, hold your center, be your separate self in your confidence, letting him do his child self with you.

27:12Pause and say, oh, you don't like us to talk at all, do you? Something like that. I hear you. Yeah, I'll be with you in a few moments. But you know, we're still going to talk sometimes, your dad and I. And you can get all mad if you need to. We're still going to talk sometimes, even though you don't like it, because we need to do that. We want to do that. So I'm not saying to say all those words, but have that comfortable subtext going on. Some people say, put your hand up, put your hand on their leg or whatever. I don't know if those things work, but I know what works is confidence and that we do our best to keep going once we've acknowledged you and we've told you the limit, which is this is what we're doing right now.

27:56We'll be back to you as soon as we can. And then try to keep going, even if he escalates. Because again, he needs that demonstration of your confidence, your respect for yourselves, your respect for him, not letting him disrupt everything you're doing. all of those messages need to go in. And the gift here is this parent already knows about the feelings coming and going. So this will just be another place perhaps where her child will be expressing his feelings of frustration and lack of control of the situation that could be about his brother being born. That could be about some other transition, some other feeling that's going through him, being a, you know, somebody who kind of got used to being the center of attention and really has to let go of that.