Peer Play. Using Our Power to Help Kids Thrive Socially

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1:38Hi, this is Janet Lansfrey. Welcome to Unruffled. Today, I'm going to be responding to actually three different messages I received from parents. They seem very different. You're going to hear one about how does respectful parenting approach bullying. You're going to hear another one. The subject line in this parent's email was help pretend play disaster. And then finally, a very brief one that came on Instagram when I did a Q &A reach out. That one is simply helping a reserved three-year-old be comfortable around other people. So I want to thank all of these parents for reaching out to me and talk about the through line in all of these, which is helping our kids to succeed in social situations, helping them develop their social skills, helping them play with others well and connect with others.

2:37Many of you know that the relationship that we're building with our child is a model to them for other relationships that they're going to engage in. So a lot of the social skills that we teach We teach directly through the way that we interact with our child. So this makes sense to us, right? If we're kind to our child, our child learns kindness. If we're generous, they learn generosity. If we're gracious and thank them, then they learn to feel gracious. They can bask in those experiences that we give them through our modeling. But often when our children seem to be in some way struggling socially, as in all these situations that I'm going to bring up today, it's often because this process isn't as direct as we might think it is in terms of we model it and they do it, or we teach them how to play with other kids and so they're able to do it.

3:35It's not direct instruction. Like most of parenting, I guess, is not direct instruction, but especially these very nuanced skills that kids need to learn experientially. Two other ways besides our modeling that we could support our kids to learn to be with other people and how to relate to them successfully. One is the way that we assert our boundaries with our child and follow through with that. The other is maybe one of the hardest things for us as parents to trust our child's process. So mostly I'm going to be talking about those two ideas, boundaries and trusting our child's process and how we actually have a very strong influence on our children's development of social skills through not only the modeling, but the boundaries and the trust.

4:28What that looks like and how understanding our power can help us because oftentimes when our kids are struggling, there is something that we can tweak in our relationship with our children and the way that we're handling boundaries and trust. So it's not only understanding our power, but it's knowing how that means we can actually help them. Whenever I talk about how much power we have to influence our children, sometimes when we're feeling insecure as parents, we maybe take that as blame, like, oh, everything's our fault. And it's not true. There aren't a lot of books about this, how to do this.

5:05There isn't a lot of information. And many of us are forging a path to a respectful approach, an authoritative approach that maybe we didn't receive as children. So it's forging new territory. So don't expect that you're supposed to know all these things, but try to give yourself grace so you can be open to looking at where you might be able to help your child over these humps. Okay, so here's the first one. Help, pretend play disaster. Hi, Janet. Your work saved my parenting journey when my first was 18 months and starting to show anxiety. Thank you. I'm in a pickle on this one. Four-year-old loves pretend play and lives 80 % of the day in character.

5:49She doesn't do much screen time, if that's helpful. This is coming mostly from books, podcast stories, and Tony's. The pickle. She loves to direct play, and she constantly says, okay, you are Anna. You say X, Y, Z. Then I do X, Y, Z. But the problem is, if you say even a word off, she stops you and starts over. Again and again. I've tried to explain every way that I can think of that this isn't fun. I've tried to model just playing together in character, but that's not what she wants. She seems to really not understand why this isn't fun for the other person playing. It's one thing with her dad and I, but the problem is with friends.

6:31This is spilled over to most of her interactions with friends. She has a lot of close friendships, neighbors, and a core group she has known since she was six months. She gets so angry or sad when friends don't say exactly what she's asking them to. Sometimes she can move on and play their games, but very often this ends in tears. I can tell the friends are annoyed or want to play, but just don't understand her very specific directions. I thought the best thing was to let it play out with her friends, and them rejecting this kind of play would be hard, but she would move on. It's been a year, and that's not happening.

7:09What am I doing wrong? What am I not seeing? Additional info, I'm a full-time parent with two little girls, four and one. This started well before the baby was born, but of course could be related. I'm at a loss. So the main thing I want to help this parent understand is how important her boundaries are in setting her child up for success with other children. And this is true with a lot of the notes that I receive. It can be easy to fall into, oh, isn't this wonderful? My child is so imaginative and they're creating these games. And maybe we've heard a lot about how we're supposed to play with our child, how when our child comes home from school and they say, play with me, that we're supposed to do that.

7:54But there are a couple of signs here showing, even without the way this is affecting this girl with her friends, there are a couple of things that we can look at as parents or remind ourselves when something seems so unreasonable in terms of the way we're playing with our child or engaging with our child or what they're asking of us, then there's a very good chance that what our child is really asking for is for us to have a reasonable boundary. And again, it can be easy to get kind of lost in this as parents, especially if we do have an approach where we respect and trust our child and we want to encourage them, of course.

8:35But when we're trying to participate with them and then they're being so exacting, and it seems impossible to please them, even though we're playing with them. That's something to look at. A lot of times children will just seem to go further and further and further into the ridiculousness of a demand on us. And that's sort of where this has gone here. These are things to look at. Like, why am I giving my child this much power over me, that they're telling me what to do. And I'm trying to live up to what they want. I'm not saying it should be the other way either to be a respectful parent, but this is almost always our child, not needing us to play with them this way.

9:22We can get caught up in thinking that, but underneath it all, wanting us to actually set the boundary and just let them be mad at us, let them be frustrated, Let them be angry or sad or whatever that looks like, because those feelings often represent other feelings. You know, it's not like our child would get so disappointed that people can't play in her stringent way that she's asking them to. It's other things and children have this healthy, healthy instinct to push, push, push so that they can let go of all those feelings that have to do with who knows what else. Maybe the rivalry with her sibling who's now one, and that does tend to be a time when children feel threatened by that.

10:07So I don't know. I can't say entirely. I can say that's a common reason, but it could just be a lot of other things. Four is an age where it is sort of what I think of as a pushing out age, where they're seeing where the boundaries are as they're pushing even more to individuate from us. and just being able to express those out-of-control feelings, all the places that they don't control in life, which are a lot. So this is one we can help this child with. We don't let her control us and the way we're talking and the way we're playing with her if we're nice enough to want to play with her. And I would not make that my job to play with my child.

10:50My job is to give focused attention in spurts throughout the day, to create a safe home where my child can flourish and do the play that she's doing. I mean, which is wonderful play in itself, right? She's asking, I believe, she's seeking boundaries around how far we're going to go with this. And like I said, I would take it all the way back to, you know, this isn't my job. This is her pretend stuff. And we can see here how this is affecting her friendships, because we're the model for these relationships. And if we're not asserting those boundaries, then our child has to seek them elsewhere. And I don't think she really wants her friends to do everything she wants them to say or do either underneath it all.

11:39But she's getting stuck in this mode of, this is the only way I know how to play with people. and that we can adjust so easily by just being aware of this and what's going on and taking a look at our own feelings. Hey, this feels weird. Like I'm uncomfortable. I can't please her. What am I doing? And that's a really good place to go as parents to take note of. This isn't fun for me. This is uncomfortable. That almost always means we need to stick up for ourselves and set a reasonable boundary. Take care of our needs in the relationship, which is such beautiful modeling for our child. Because now they're learning, oh, other people don't do everything you want them to do.

12:28We can teach them that through just our own reasonable care for ourselves and listening to that voice of discomfort in us. But here's the thing, most of us do this thing where we want to try just explaining it. Don't you know this isn't fun? And I believe underneath it all she does know. And I don't think she's having fun either. She knows that we're not having fun when we're getting caught up in this trying to please her thing. There's a boundary missing. We're the adult model of relationships. And she's the child who is supposed to have all kinds of unreasonable demands sometimes to find out where she stands with us and other people.

13:12And also to be able to release all these feelings of uncomfortable power and control and the frustrations that are in her and maybe the fear that's in her and the sadness. This parent used the word sadness when she talked about her with her friends. angry and sad. Well, under anger is usually fear and sadness. So we want her to get to express that the way that she knows how, which is to express it through other things, through play, and then us setting reasonable boundaries. This parent says it's one thing with her dad and I, but the problem is with friends. Yes, but the thing is her dad and I are representing relationships with friends.

13:52were showing her the way. And this is why it's so important for us to have reasonable boundaries and take care of ourselves. Because as this parent noticed, this is spilled over to most of her interactions with friends. She gets so angry, sad when friends don't say exactly what she's asking them to. Sometimes she can move on and play their games, but very often it ends in tears. I can tell the friends are annoyed or want to play, but just don't understand her very specific directions. And I think the friends probably do understand some of them, but they just, they don't want to play that way. As this parent noticed, it's not fun.

14:28And children often do sense that that child who's trying to control everybody and direct everybody isn't really having fun either. So this is where we can help her so much. This parent said, I thought the best thing was to let it play out with her friends and them rejecting this kind of play would be hard, but she would move on. I think eventually she will, even without the parent helping her with the, what I call homework of, hey, where is this? Where is the root of this? It's in my relationship with my child. So we can help her so much here so that she doesn't have to keep struggling. She'll have a much better chance of succeeding with her friends if we can allow her the normal rejections from us of, no, I don't want to play that way.

15:18We're not rejecting her personally. We're not shaming her, but we're just rejecting that offer to play in her prescribed over-the-top way. And then with the people she's safest with, her parents, she can express all the feelings to the hilt. You know, it's harder to express that with friends. We're that safe place where she can learn this. That sometimes you get what you want with people and other times they have their own wishes. So that's what I would help this parent to see. And I feel like the parents will make a huge change quickly when they can do this. Not every dad is a chef. Some are designated pancake makers.

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18:39All right, the next one I want to talk about is how does respectful parenting approach bullying? Hi, Janet. I listened to your podcast and I really appreciated two recent episodes on playground scenarios and how to deal with grandparents. These episodes were great because they address situations that involve other people, not just the parent-child relationship, as does the issue I would love for you to address on a future episode. How does respectful parenting approach bullying and other unkind social dynamics between kids? My older daughter is four and a half. Recently, when we were at a playground with friends, the other girls she is playing with will leave her out.

19:19They will pretend she's a monster and run away screaming or do things that they know will upset her or just leave her out of their games. They are all a year ahead of her in preschool, and there is a gap in social-emotional development. When playing one-on-one, she has good friendships with these girls, but she's an easy target in a group dynamic. Generally speaking, I am in favor of letting kids work out their own conflicts, and I'm there for my daughter to vent about how she's feeling and to offer her alternatives when playing with these girls is not pleasant. The other parents are noticing this dynamic as well and are beginning to intervene, and we have discussed how we all feel uncertain about how best to manage the situation.

20:00Yesterday, the dad of one of the other girls told her that she has to play with my daughter too, or they're going home. This worked for a while. She took my daughter by the hand, explained this rule to the other girls, and my daughter had a great time being included. Are there other interventions that are more aligned with respectful parenting? Is the respectful thing for me to do for my daughter to find other places to play without this group of girls? I would appreciate your thoughts, both from the perspective of me and my child, but also from the perspective of the other parents as they are open to ideas.

20:35Thanks. Well, what a lovely group of parents that they want to help with this situation. First, I feel like so much of this is about our perceptions of what's going on. Just because this parent gave the subject line about bullying, I just want to touch on that for a second, that if she's jumping to this idea that her child is being bullied in this situation, that is not a realistic or helpful perception of what's going on, in my opinion. And, you know, this word gets thrown around a lot these days, bullying. I don't think it applies to children this age at all. It's quite different from children excluding another like this.

21:17And yeah, she says they make her the monster and all that, but it's not like this pervasive picking on her and, you know, attacking her as a bully would. So I would try not to think of it that way and to cast my child as a victim. I would also look at they're in the grade ahead of her in preschool. Well, as children get older, that maybe isn't such a huge difference. But in preschool, a spread of a year of age is a big difference. And as his parents said, their social emotional development is at a different place than this little girl. So it makes a lot of sense that these girls kind of feel like they're on a different wavelength, and that their way of playing together could easily exclude somebody younger.

22:06So I would go into a situation like this really not expecting that my child is going to be able to play with these girls when they're all together. Yes, one-on-one is a different thing, but in this group dynamic, that's going to be a challenging one. So this parent is doing this job of allowing her daughter to vent about how she's feeling and to offer her alternatives when playing with these girls is not pleasant. But I think I would set this up more for her to understand, and maybe this parent has done this, these girls are older, one-on-one, it could work for them to play with you. But as a group, that is going to be hard.

22:44And then rather than being the one to find other things for her to play, offering her alternatives when playing with these girls is not pleasant, I wouldn't even try to fix that for her. I would really allow her to navigate this and yeah, share the feelings with you. But what can happen is we feel sorry for our child and we want to try to just a little bit try to fix what's going on. I mean, as a parent, it sounds like she's like at least 75 % with the attitude of allowing her to work out her own conflicts. But she's also seeing this as kind of a problem, as are all the parents there. Instead of, hey, this is a challenging situation, but maybe this little girl can handle it in her own way.

23:30And maybe handling it means I'm not even going to try playing with them. Maybe it means I'm going to try, but it's not going to work out. But it's that investment that we sometimes have in, you know, our heart going out to our children. I mean, everybody feels like this. We don't want her to get rejected. We want it to all work and we kind of can get to where we're feeling sorry for our child in the situation. And maybe we're even projecting our own background into that. But, you know, it's really hard not to, let me just say that, to project and feel sorry for a child in this situation. When she's trying to do this really challenging thing that shouldn't be easy at all and probably shouldn't work.

24:13If she wants to try it, we can best support her by trusting her to figure it out her way. And then, yeah, being there if she wants to vent, but not acknowledging all of that in a way that's pitying at all or like that. We see this as a problem. And, you know, the dad helping by getting the girl to play. There's certainly nothing wrong with that. It was a sweet gesture, but also that isn't going to help this little girl to find her way because an adult came in and tried to fix it for her, seeing this as a problem. I wouldn't see this as a problem at all. And you can make it so that it's a choice.

24:56Do you want to go there? I think it's going to be all the girls there. They might not play with you today. Do you want to do it? And then if our child says yes, we trust that. And that helps them to navigate this from a place of strength, therefore probably be able to see more clearly and even make better choices in the moment in terms of how to engage. It still may not work, but this is where our influence, again, could be so positive if we trust her and trust the realities of the situation and trust the other girls too, and not try to push something to happen because we aren't comfortable with it and our child isn't comfortable with it.

25:38Learning isn't comfortable. And as both these families seem to realize, rejection is a really important experience to learn from. What works with kids? What doesn't work with kids? In the case of that first story, what works with my parent if I want their attention? What doesn't work with my parent? And that's where the trust comes in there in that scenario, trusting that it's okay for this girl to feel rejected in her way of playing with us. Rejection, exclusion, as in this second case, failing in our attempts to engage, those are all important life experiences that children can learn from and build confidence from if we can see them that way.

26:29if we can see it all as positive learning. So this turns out, are there other interventions that are more aligned with respectful parenting? What's aligned with respectful parenting is maybe just the intervention of helping my child have reasonable expectations and then not intervening, trusting my child to have their own process. And with that, I just want to get to this shorter one, because it's very different, but yet what will help this child is the same thing. Helping a reserved three-year-old be comfortable around other people. Trusting them to find their way to feeling comfortable around other people.

27:14By not pushing them, by not coaxing them to be comfortable, by not trying to make them happen as if this is a problem to fix. or a weakness they need us to help them overcome. Instead, this is a path that a child is on and some children, they just take longer or they only feel comfortable when it's a certain way. That's not for us to manage. That's for our child to navigate with the confidence that our trust gives them in themselves. So if they want to sit with us in a social situation, we let them sit with us. if they want us to follow them around while they're doing things, that I would say no to.

27:56I'll be here. I'll be comfortable. I'll have a boundary. I'll take care of myself. And I trust you to do what you're ready to do. So I wouldn't prompt. I wouldn't coax. I wouldn't try to manage this in any way. Because when we do those things, kids feel it. They know, just like when the dad helped the older child play with the little girl. It didn't help them want to play with her more. It didn't make her feel more confident in getting to play with them. There was nothing wrong with the gesture, but it wasn't going to help them all grow together, except maybe to remind those other older girls that the younger one could be fun to be with.