Chicharito: Everyone Gets Cristiano Wrong | One thing Haaland is missing

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1:02I never put Cristiano arrogant because I think that's what people don't realize. Cristiano was always going against the tide, that's how it's called it, against everything. He would always fight for the underdog in the changing world. The underdog, you know what I mean? So he's always needed to fight. So when he achieved things and you ask him, hey, you achieved this. Yes, I did. Do you feel you're the best? Yes. but he was proving it. We are not, the society is not built for you to speak good about yourself because they see it in arrogance. That's why I feel that Haaland still, I think still, he can still be a better player than he is.

1:44Yeah, he's great now. He's great now. But there's still room. I think he can be phenomenal. We'll make the call.

1:56Hey. Chicharito. My man, how are you? Hey, Joe. Thanks for the time, man. You? No, thank you, guys. I know I've been bugging you. Pass that, Tom. A little accident happened before you walked in. I was nervous. What happened? I was nervous, look. Oh, my God, nervous. Shut up, come on. What is that? Very good, and you? All I see now is you in the media. Wow, what a view, guys. Nice, nice, man. Wow. We're lucky. We are lucky. Hey, you were... I'm seeing you in the media everywhere now. I am. To do a lot of the stuff you've done, you had to be intelligent. And then when I see you on TV, I said, oh, it makes sense.

2:28Thank you. So just quickly, Russell, I want to get straight into it. Tell me about you as a striker. What was your game built around? For someone who hasn't seen you, doesn't know anything about you, explain Chicharito as a player. More about movement without the ball than with the ball per se. Of course, I need the ball to score, but it was more of like tap-ins or just two touches finishes. More like that. Why? Because I think I started being more of a, let's call it, all-around striker in Mexico before I went with you guys in Europe. Because I started my career being a winger, and then I transformed being more of a striker.

3:10And then I had this type of movement since I was a winger, because normally when you're a winger and you're in the line, you don't see nothing behind you, because it's just the line, you can see everything. So my movements always was without the ball, or I have the ball and then 1v1s, crosses, finishes, etc. But then when I got my move with you guys, I realized that or it takes me longer to implement my full game over there or I adapt quick of what the team needs. And when you play next to Wayne Rooney, you don't have to do nothing else. Let him do all the game for you. When you have wingers as Ryan Giggs and Anani, give them an option.

3:55so my idea was i want to adapt as soon as i can so i figured out that what the team needs it was just the best option possible it was i get the ball that he finishes let's go and celebrate if gigs does what gigs does you don't need to do nothing else that give him an option you know so i try to adapt myself instead of showing up my virtues or my qualities i just said let me just show that I can play in this team. So what the team needs is this. And the team needed what? Because you mentioned movement as the first word that you said. Yes. What did the team need movement-wise for you? I think, for example, at that time, to stretch the defenders to be the last man.

4:40So if I run into the channels and they don't follow me, of course I'm going to give you an option to go to goal or to just open up. But if the defenders follow me, then you start stretching and then that gap between midfielders and defenders for Wayne, for just say Jason Park, Wayne, Anderson, any midfielder, Nani or whatever, you start stretching the defenders. I think that was something that I was seeing it that, for example, I mean, what a wonderful striker like Berba is, you know, but Berba was more of ball in the feet. He can move in the space, don't get me wrong. He was quick at that moment, but I was this type of energetic kind of striker, so I wanted to move more without the ball.

5:20You couldn't stand still. Exactly, until now. You know, I can move. I'm very active in that sense. So, yeah, that was something that I knew how to do it, but then I saw that at that time no one was doing it as much and thankfully as well as I was doing it. So that's why, yeah. It is movement. Is it learned or is it natural? Because some of the movements you would do, like the movement you're talking about is like from the halfway line runs almost where you're running in behind, which is great. But the movements more when the ball's wide or around the box, the little movements around or the two or three movements to get on the ball, like is that something you have to be taught or was that just inside?

6:06It's intuition, it's smell, it's just something that you cannot teach realistically. Then you can learn certain things watching players, just the two movement kind of way you can learn it. But then to be correct on your move, for example, if my intuition is telling me that this ball is coming to the first post and then it actually goes, I cannot teach that because then sometimes as a striker you can move first post and the ball goes second. But then when I arrived with you guys and I realized that the physicality was accepted over there, I mean, if I'm next to you, Rio, part of your great timing, if you grab me with your arms, I'm not going to be able to move with this.

6:50Even if I try to figure it out. So for you to don't catch me or Vida or then the other strikers, you know, John Terry, Carvalho, David Luiz, whatever, for them to don't mark me, I need to do a movement before. So, or I stay in your back to separate. Exactly. Like in set pieces, like you do it in set pieces. If they grab you, you're dead. not because they grab you in a foul way but you know in Premier League they allow you to be in contact so when I arrive with you and I see that I that I needed to do something else to be in that in that spot that I want to be so the movement came more than before it's mad because that just takes me to there's one goal that I'll never forget and I've shown this goal I don't know if there's a goal that I've shown more people and talked about it seriously and talked about it and gone look at this bolting away do you remember I think Gary Cahill was a centre back and I actually I've seen him I want to ask him about it as well because that goal there if I was a defender would make me rethink my whole career the way you moved he didn't know where he was but you didn't do I think you'd done three movements it was three movements and I want to say something in Gary's like the yeah defending him as well because I think it was more of a virtue of me rather than a complete mistake of a defender you know I think it was more and I'm going to tell you why and which is the factor that brings these things that I'm going to say.

8:14The goalkeeper thought he was going to grab the ball, and I anticipated him. So it was an amazing ball from Nani, but the movement as well happened because of Nani's body language. Why? Because I always say this to some strikers. It's like, you need to know, first of all, you need to know your teammates, yes, but then apart of knowing your teammate, you need to see the body languages of it. that's something that always helped me as well to be more cheeky, you know, speaking of. Because it wasn't realistically that I'm always trying to find the space, for example, with David Moyes, a Stoke City goal that I did, second post crossed by Patrice Ebra against Stoke City.

8:58I came in as a sub and then that movement that I did is because I knew the defender. No, another one with David Moyes already at home, across from Patrice. But the movement that I do is I knew this guy thought that I was going to go there and he wanted to grab me. So I just do this movement and I move back and then the ball just come to me and I just head the ball. Speaking of the player, I wasn't playing for the space. I was just as well having the gap. And you know the defender you're playing against. That's why data is so important in video. Yes, but what I'm saying is data, it's very important.

9:32But for me, what I love more about our football is regardless of all the data and all the technology, there are things that you just realize that it's effectiveness on the field. It's the smell. Even for you too. You want to anticipate, we're not anticipating. That's why with the data, for instance, if I was playing against you, like you say, I know you're going to prefer to go on your right nine times out of ten, but I know you will go on your left if you need to. Exactly. But it gives me the option to overcompensate a little bit, but I have to be aware maybe you might do something else. And as well, if I know that data that you know, I can now play you.

10:09Always, because if I know you think, and I can feel that since the first moment, in my first movement, like for example, if I do the same movement, like saying I'm going to go first pose with two second movement, and if I do it and you were prepared, I'm thinking, okay, you did your homework, I'm going to go the other side. Exactly, chess. The things that you might not expect, but now going back to the nanies in that movement, And it's like, if you see it, I run first post like a full sprint thinking that Nani was going to play the ball that he ended up playing. But he didn't. And normally with Nani is if he has his ball and he has so many touches, it means that he's looking for something.

10:50He's waiting for you. Because then you know Nani. Nani sometimes it goes of like touch outside to cut, go to his left, or just pull the ball long and cross. So when he was doing that, I thought, let me go fast. So I go fast. Cahill comes with me. Nani doesn't give the ball. So now my second movement is let me go second post. But then I see Nani that he keeps in the game's momentum. I say, oh, let me go first post. And when I start going first post, that was Gary stopped looking at me. And then he didn't anticipate that Nani was going to play that ball. And then that goal came. You talked about body language.

11:27Was that something you just discussed with teammates a lot or not? or just intuition?

11:34Both as well, but more intuition, because there's a coordination that not always is going to happen, because sometimes your wingers or the person who has the ball is not going to completely look at you. It's going to be in the periphery, or you need to guess what your teammate is going to do. So it's like a mix of it. Because, I don't know, when gigs, for example, the ball, the goal that I scored against the orange... Blackpool, Blackpool? Blackpool, exactly. This ball that Edwin... Goal kick. Edwin's to Geek, Geek have a touch and he just passed it to me. Touches like three in four touches we scored a goal over there.

12:17Knowing Geeks and everything, I see the ball and with Geek, see the ball going far, I'm already thinking about the play. And I see Geeks. So the probabilities of Geeks having a bad touch are less than having a good touch. So I can already be thinking about it. And the touch that he makes is amazing, but then what Geeks have is like, Geeks does this. So I just need to do a very quick movement. Because when Geeks does this, and he puts his head down, if I do another movement, I'm going to stop the vision of him. He's not a player that is going to keep looking at you. So when he puts his face up and I see that, I'm just like, let me stay inside and I'm open.

13:03The ball was perfectly. I have the touch and I scored. I'm saying all of this, it depends. It depends so much about the game. That's why something that I love about, for example, Thierry and Rie that I feel represented, not always, it's like I wasn't playing the game as much. I was thinking the game more. That's why my description is like, of course I wasn't this technically compared with Verba, compared with Wayne, compared with Robin, Van Persie, compared with even Danny Weld. But yes, they were better maybe technically, yes. But then I scored a lot of goals as well, you know? Yeah, you was a better mover.

13:46I was a better mover, so I was an option of it. Then if I needed to play or something, I think I was good enough, if not I wouldn't play with you guys. But why I need to do things that other players can do already? Let me do something that not all players can do. And it was my movement, for sure. It's transfer season now, and players are going into different clubs. You've done that. You came in from a different culture, different country, a new environment. What would your advice be for young players? What did you do when you walked in to really immerse yourself into that environment to give yourself the best chance?

14:21I think it's going to be a very unpopular opinion, this one that I'm going to say, but it's like, don't try to eat the full cake in one bite. It's like if you get to Manchester City, Manchester United, sorry, or Manchester City or Liverpool, these big clubs, regardless if you're moving to Europe, since the first day, this mentality, I'm going to prove everyone that why I'm here. Yes, but it's more of like, proof why they shouldn't take you back from the PQ. And that's what I did with this. Even in the Rondos, even in everything. I don't want to shine right now. I just don't want to look like this Mexican that has never played Manchester United ever.

15:04So I need to look that I fit in it. Then it will be time to shine. Fit. So that's something that helped me since the beginning. But I've been always very observative, Rio, is what some players do, if they speak, if they don't speak, what young guys does. That's my role right now. I'm not a Wayne Rooney starting of Champions League. So I wasn't ever thinking to start for a Champions League game. I want to be first. I want to be on the bench. That was my mentality. Humble. Yes, it's my role. Even though I was the biggest star and the biggest name for Mexico, I knew my role. I always had everything in perspective.

15:44Chivas and Mexico is not the same as Manchester United and England and Premier League is not the same. And that doesn't mean that I'm speaking bad about my home team or speaking bad about my country. It's realistic. It's been realistic. I'm coming to Manchester United. My first training with Manchester United in the Premier League. Wow. I always use this analogy of like I was playing with you guys video games six months ago. Literally six months ago. Even that I was playing first division in chivas i used to play video games i mean you can speak about it how we love video games at the time and i didn't play as much with you but you have this group of playing this socom video game that you fucking love that i never i couldn't play because it was what i like sports these guys are playing like war games i never played yeah it was amazing anyway but our mario kart you know what but yeah it was like literally it was like that it was like playing video games with you guys then suddenly I receive a call and all the stories that happen and it's like surreal surreal yeah so when you walk into Manchester United what do you need to become a Man United player like again there's a GS player that's going to be coming through the doors at Man United now to adapt quickly what do you is it intelligence awareness I don't know things have changed so much in our club and I say are because that's the team that I play my most games ever in my career imagine that not even in Chivas, I played so many games like in United.

17:14Things change so much. But what I can tell, what I needed to do over there, first of all, is show that I deserve to be there. But how? With hard work. I'm going to gain the respect. At least if a hard worker. Then if I don't score goals, I mean, that's obvious. You know, the green rectangle is going to always prove if you're ready or not. But at least with you guys, it's like how Rio Ferdinand, Nemanja Vidic Paul Scholes Edwin Van der Sar John O'Shea Wes Brown Michael Carrick Wayne Rooney who else Dimitar Berbatov like everyone is starcy of their countries how I'm going to gain the respect of them hard work that's my mentality I always just see you in the gym before training after training hard work I'm going to prove you that at least you're going to respect me at that and then in the rectangle hopefully I can do things well that you can say I can relate to my teammate if we need Chicha I can relate to him That's another conversation.

18:08But first, oh my God, this opportunity of my life, I'm going to give my life to them. And that's something that I think I'm not saying that is not happening. I'm not saying that because maybe everyone is doing that. But it was in the group standards were high. I can feel it. I cannot even prove it how, but your way of looking at people, your way of communicating with people, I could say that that I gained that respect with a lot of them before even my first goals, with you guys, before other young players, for example. We had Giggs on the show before and he spoke about the Man United values of being like run, risk and want the ball.

18:51Being three of the main values. How quickly were you able to kind of see and feel the values of the football club when you walked in? Straight away, straight away. It was since the first training, you can feel it's something different. So if you don't fucking accept that, and I say, well, sorry, because I see so many players that they want the game or the teams to adapt to themselves. You adapt to a team like that. You are the guy adapting to them. You are the guy. You play from the badge, not for your name. Then your name will be recognized forever. But first goes the badge, and then whatever.

19:29so you adapt to that so that's I think something that helped me so much in my adaptation any people help you individually got you closer to it well my family, my dad my dad always my dad has been very let's call it harsh in a way because I've never received like let's call it like praising from him and my granddad that passed away but from those two from my dad specifically as much praising as people think I might got no I'm in Manchester United I was the first Mexican player being there what do you expect from my dad praising praising oh I'm so proud of you that yeah that come but later it was of like do you want to go back to Mexico do you want to send back do you want do you want to all these Mexican people at that time that they were doubting that you deserve to be there to be right like all of that's always my dad so my dad always put that chip on my shoulder of whatever even if i score one goal it's like are you gonna be satisfied just with that like what else do you want like it's always what do you want what's next and my dad always told me since i was a kid always he always told me and that's uh he always told me the most important play of the game is the next one always no matter if you already score you miss whatever the most important play of the game it's the next one at United who were your friends?

21:03I mean someone I mean someone that helped me so much were the the Brazilians you know they helped me so much it was Rafa Fabio Anderson Nani Patrice Bra all this group you were very close to it regardless you were like part of this British kind of group with Johnny Evans with Jono Shea with Darren Fletcher you you know and then there was that we call the old guys, you know, like Gixi with Bullscold. Edwin. Exactly. And then Wayne was all about, but you were very close to us as well. But all these like Latin American, Antonio Valencia was there as well that I was forgot because he was very quiet.

21:41But all this group helped me so much to settle. Of course, the language helped. The young age as well helped. And yeah, we just, I mean, yeah, those were like my guys. But I think because of my language and I speak very good English, regardless at that time, it helped me as well to have very good conversations with Gixi, for example, with Scolzi, even though he was very quiet. Sometimes he could come to me and speak to me because he knew I was going to answer in English and understand. Would they be speaking to you about football or about movement and stuff like that? Movement, both. For example, I remember one time that Scolzi, after a training, I don't know, I don't remember exactly what happened in the training, but when we were walking back that the session was over and I was playing with him, he always told me like, never expect that he told me, Chicha, when I put my face up and I have the boulder, never expect like a cut or something unless someone is tackling.

22:40But he always, like he told me, always when you see me like that, run wherever you want to run. I'm going to give you the ring. Like that, but if you're not very homo, like he was like, imagine Paul Scots telling you that. I was like, yes, Colsy, of course, okay. Wait, wait. Not many players can say, listen, when our head goes up here, you just run and the ball's coming. Exactly. The ball is coming. If I see you moving like far, post, far movement, the ball is going to go there. Aston Villa goal. Remember that when I came back? Oh, you come on. I come on and scored this hat-trick that they took it off because one goal was a non-goal.

23:10Bullshit completely. Do you remember every goal? Most of the goals, yes. Jesus. Yes. Sorry, go on. No, but Robin said the ball to Paul. Paul had the touch. He sees me. I move, he put me the ball, I try to protect it lucky, one touch, whatever and then I score between the legs of the goalkeeper so yeah speaking of that, for example, with Paul Scholes I'm yeah, like the type of striker that I was or that I am you know, like very receptive, moving without the ball and I need to receive the ball that's how I was as a person as well, I want to receive from you like what you are giving me and then I can adapt to you or not and I can have a very good chemistry with you or not, you know, but I want things to work out because I always knew that regardless if I score goals or not, if I give good chances to my teammates, that's winning, that's gain.

24:03That's profit, I call it. That's profit. Then if the ball comes and I score, profit. If I didn't score but that helps someone else, profit. If we win, profit. And if we win championships, leagues, tournaments, profit. So I always see the benefit of the group first than my own. You mentioned the group there. And I've always talked about the benefit of the computer games we used to play. Oh, that was amazing. And you said you didn't play. What did you used to think when we were playing? These motherfuckers are crazy. But as well, the fun stories that I can't even see. Even that I wasn't involved.

24:40You know when, I don't know, the twins were, you knew that you killed the twins. the twins speaking in Portuguese you didn't understand them but you knew they were complaining about you look all of these laughs that even us being next to you guys because of the of the of the bus you know when we were travelling and everything that was it man that was it it was like I mean we're going to war next day between you guys let's have fun before war you know I remember Wazza used to smash the consoles yes Wazza was a so loser yeah bad loser but you came and obviously you mentioned you've talked about all of the adaptation you had to do and the environment and stuff.

25:16First season, Fans Player of the Year. Well, that moment was very special and I will never forget it with Owen Hargraves because it was the first time in my life that I went to an award team kind of situation, you know, and I need to get a suit. And it was very weird. And then I arrived there and I was with a table of single people because I didn't have family at the time. Whatever, you know, and Owen was there with the rest. But then suddenly when the dinner was happening and then everything was like, yes, I don't know, awards, then the charity things of giving. It was very surreal for me the first time from Mexico.

25:55That never happened. But then there was one moment that I remember that Owen just came to me and said, Chicha, come. I mean, next to him. And I come and I say, you might win players, fans player of the year. And I'm like, Owen, you're taking the piss out of me? And he laughed about my reaction. and they say no man i think i feel that you might win it and i just remember that i'm like oh fuck forget about winning it or not if i win it i need to stand up over there and speak on english and i don't want to do that you know so i was like i don't want to win it not because of course it's a great achievement of like what what i what i need to do afterwards and i was like fuck I just remember to take it out myself texting my sister and please help me with some kind of speech or hardly Goals and yeah, my sister helped me send it to me and like say I don't think I'm gonna win it and then I end up winning it and I'm like Wow, what what that meant?

26:58It's it's unbelievable The names that oh and players who have won that it's amazing. They're crazy. It's crazy So all of these good times that we had and then all of a sudden it comes to a point like all of us you have to leave Yeah. How did you feel? What was that process like? Look, it was very hard because if you give me the chance to stay in United most of my career, like I'm telling you, it's a fact. The team that I play most games is not even my hometown in Mexico. It's United. I have more games in United. So I am not that upset that I left, not because the bad moment saying like I jumped out of the boat before.

27:38Not because of that. I would have I would have take a bullet for that team it's my team Manchester United but things wasn't the same so it's not that I left the club that I was with I left in a different already environment it wasn't the same club with the departure of obviously of Sir Alex Ferguson but as well of David Gill and all that family structure and when I say family it doesn't mean that it was all nice you know it's like but all of these values and in the moment that I left it's like yeah we felt sad because what it means but in the other hand it was like United wasn't the same it wasn't that I'm leaving my club in the way that I was and they don't want me and it's like me begging no it wasn't like that you know and then something that helped me a little bit as well is like before I left to United I went to play to Fort Real Madrid so that gives me something of like if they don't value me in United and I don't want me to give what I can give.

28:40Let me find a club. And Bayer Leverkusen happened to come. I scored 40 goals in two seasons. It was amazing. You know, I'm playing in Bundesliga. So, yeah, it's bittersweet. Yes, but realistically, I want to say the truth is that, yes, I was very sad. Don't get me wrong. I would have retired in United and I would take a bullet for that team. But it wasn't the same team as the team that embraced me and gave me my first opportunity. Right, man. We've got loads still to come on this pod, But we'll be back shortly after this. In 2023, a source sent me a tip. It tied baseball's biggest star to a vast, illegal sports betting operation.

29:22Shohei Otani! But then someone surprising confessed to me. His best friend. I'm Epey Mizuhara, and you do have permission to record me. From 30 for 30 podcasts, this is The Betrayal of Shohei Otani. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

30:07drag-and-drop workflows, no expensive consultants. Employees get unblocked, and IT teams go from drowning in tickets to building what actually matters. With Serval, IT becomes the AI engine powering the entire company. This is a new way to run IT. We guarantee you'll automate 50 % of all tickets, and we'll prove it to you in a free four-week pilot. Go to serval.com slash tickets. That's S-E-R-V-A-L dot com slash tickets.

31:04not permanent kind of manager. Because some of our ex-teammates have been very critical. I don't know why. I really don't know why. I mean, because I feel that sometimes, I mean, it hasn't happened to me yet. Maybe, I hope it never happened, but it's a type of like, there's a fine line between criticising someone's job, because you have to, you have to, but then your own opinions, right? One thing is saying someone played bad, but then your opinions of why he played bad, that's a different perspective, right? It's like saying, I don't know, Chicharito missed a goal. That's a fact. We all can say it.

31:46But Chicharito missed a goal because what a fucking prick. You know that? It's like, come on, man. You know what I mean? Like a fucking Mexican prick. He feels like, that's another thing. So I'm very surprised, man. And mostly because of how you know Carrick, more than I because you spend so many times not only as a teammate in the club as well as a national team and Carrick was always a man of like he never had a problem with no one with no one civilized calm person civilized calm even on the radar you know because of that personality when I was a player so I don't I don't understand and and then how are you going to criticize a manager who's giving you results he puts your team back to Champions League game.

32:32So he deserves the consequence of that. You know, stay. You know, and try to bring him players and give him the project. And if it doesn't work, well, it doesn't work. But he took the team low. He put the team back again in Champions League games. So now players are going to want to come because they want to play for Manchester United plus Champions League. Fighting for the titles. I think one of the big things I've seen is that, and I spoke to Casemiro at the end of last season, it's about restoring the values that seem to have left, like you were referring to before, it seemed like the values of the club have kind of left post-Ferguson and he seems to be doing a good job of doing that, so take me to Real Madrid then, you walk into Real Madrid, compare that changing room to when you walked into Manchester United.

33:22Similar even though Cristiano Ronaldo was there, it was very similar and I never said that I never said this real but for example when I arrived there in Madrid I was coming from Manchester United I play against them we play against the semifinals of Champions League I play friendly games whatever so the respect was there already it was different it's not that I needed to earn of course I needed to earn it obviously but you knew me I was going to work like what took me to Manchester United and what took me to Real Madrid was work and then of course goals movement, whatever. But it was hard work.

34:01It was different, the sensation. Now, very similar. The difference between Manchester United and Real Madrid, what I feel it is, is culture only. Spain and Real Madrid, it's just like huge. And then, of course, the Champions League needs to speak by itself. Real Madrid hasn't won those Champions League by luck. It's the club of the centuries. It is the club. Even though we want to put Manchester United on the same level as Real Madrid that it might be. Real Madrid is in another category because not even Barcelona gets there because of the titles. It's not a matter of saying I like it or I don't like it.

34:38It's a matter of... It's like United. Now, with the Premier League that Liverpool won, they might be there, but before it was United. The team with more leagues, period, right? But I think Real Madrid has another exposure in the world rather than any Premier League in the team. It's not even about United or not. It's Real Madrid. It's in another level exposure-wise. It was a hell of an experience. What were levels like in training? Very similar to Joe, guys. He was very similar. Look, if I can compare, of course, I have for example, I have Luka Modric, Luka Modric, Toni Kroos. Then who was our other midfielder?

35:23Casemiro, no? No, he wasn't there. He wasn't Casemiro. Who was the third one? Ah, Javis Rodriguez, because he played Tony played that season more of a holding midfielder with James and Luka and then the BBC off top and then the defenders. Sergio Ramos, Vida, you, Post Calls, Giggs, Wayne Rooney, Karim Benzema. If you put them realistically, you guys, Varane, then you, like, it's the same level. Just if you want a taste of saying like Varane is better than Rio Ferdinand, maybe yes, maybe not. It's just like, it was very similar. The thing that helped me the most arriving to Real Madrid, it was like, I mean, I was like going to one of the greatest teams, to the greatest or one of the greatest teams ever as well.

36:08So it's like the step from Mexico to United was higher than from Manchester to Real Madrid. And that helped me a lot. I wasn't already unaware of the rondos, the trainings, the technicalities. And I'm going to say something that even helped me a little bit more. Because, for example, in Real Madrid, I scored goals outside of the box. And if you see my games with United and you see my games that I play with Real Madrid, I show more football in Real Madrid than in Premier League. But it was just because of what the league and what the level and what everything was demanding of me. and as well in Real Madrid you I was able to do more because I didn't have even though I have for example in the games that I play I had James and Luka but they were midfielders I can play more in there with you guys I don't need to why I need to drop if you have everything happening there let me be clever and let me give you the option with Madrid it was different so the league the rhythm it was more suited and more familiar than the one that I play in Mexico different level obviously because I feel Premier League, it's the most competitive league in the world, competitive.

37:24But sometimes in Germany, in Spain, you can see more of these attractive flair things than in England. But yeah, it was a huge step in my career. Cristiano Ronaldo, you go into that dressing room, you see him. What's your first encounter like with him? and what was he like at that point in his career? It was unbelievable because I spoke with you in particular and with another teammate about Cristiano when he was in United, a lot of stories. And then I go and I have the bless to go and be his teammate. And all the stories that you tell me were true. Competitive even when he has dinner. But this competitiveness, not about arrogance, about that he wants to be right, not to prove you that he's better than you.

38:19It's because I think there's a switch in him and I think with a lot of us football players that there's no on and off. It's on all the time. So to become the best of the best of the best, you need to be the best of the best of the best every single second of your day so you can hold the pressure of being the best. but man I had so many very good stories about him in the human side because I mean you know me as well it's not that I work as hard as Cristiano Ronaldo it's not about that but I always being the guy who comes early to do treatments or to do gym and then as well the guy who if I need to do more gym afterwards or whatever I always been doing that you saw it with your eyes with me so I had the pleasure to then spend time with him alone and it's not that he was different but of course there's no eyes so and then we spoke a lot about he was a Manchester United player and legend and I was a player of United so we have common conversations about it and amazing and very human and very humble like I never put Cristiano arrogant because I think that's what people don't realize Cristiano was always going against the tide.

39:41That's how it's called it. Against everything. You know, he was... He would always fight for the underdog in the changing world. The underdog. You know what I mean? So he's always needed to fight. So when he achieved things and you ask him, hey, you achieved this. Yes, I did. Do you feel you're the best? Yes. But he was proving it. We are not... The society is not built for you to speak good about yourself because they see it in arrogance. And I'm like, you know what I feel? What's arrogance when you said something that is not true. I'm the best but you haven't proved it. That's arrogance. You are the best and you're proving it.

40:15If you don't greet yourself, if you don't speak good about yourself, who's going to do it? I'm more in Ronaldo's side. He's being against everything. It's good that you speak about is he not arrogant or is he? He was never arrogant. It's good to get that perspective. But what do you think of the way people are treating him at this stage of his career? Because I always feel that he's being treated and judged about him now and they're forgetting a whole big part of his career but you know why a lot of people are starting to speak bad about him now because they couldn't in the past yeah it's true it's a good point they couldn't and why and don't get me wrong he's been in records in Saudi Arabia he won his first league over there he's going to reach to the thousand goals he said it in the press conference he scored three goals in a world cup then other players were better, but a part of the individuality is that yes, they were better.

41:10Their teams were better. And Portugal, it's like you have the best midfielders in the world. I truly still believe it. You have Vitinha, you have João Neves, two times Champions League winners. You have Bernardo Silva in the bench, but then you have Bruno Fernandes that he just beat the record in the Premier League of assists. And they couldn't make Ronaldo miss 10 chances. That's another perspective. We're here all saying, Chris, I love you till death, but you missed 10 chances, man. What are we going to say? I'm here, I'm going to defend you. Ever, but you missed 10 chances. No, he had two chances.

41:50He scored. He had the penalty in a very hard position. He scored and he put leveled the game. So I think, I think, I think a lot of people are taking advantage right now of that situation because of course, he's 41 years old. Real. He's 41 years old that he's still in that level. My God. That's why it's unfair. I don't even get into defending him because you don't have... You don't need to. You don't need to. Exactly. Just put the numbers there in the video. And even another conversation. You don't need to put Messi down to put Ronaldo up. No, no, exactly. You don't need to put Ronaldo up to put Messi up.

42:27You don't have to put those two... We have both of them. We have fucking both of them. I hear a video speaking about Superman and Batman, you know. And I saw an interview that you said that you mentioned that I agree with. When you praise Ronaldo saying that he's a hard worker, people think that when you say that, that he doesn't have talent. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't get this confused. And the other way as well, if you feel that God gifted Superman that I call Messi got there, it's because he doesn't want. No, no, no, no, no, no. You need to have discipline and so much talent that Ronaldo has.

43:01You need to have so much talent that Messi has and discipline as well. It's just about they are completely different. Different players. Different players, different stories, different narratives. No, 100%. But I still believe they're a little bit more unfair with Ronaldo than with Messi. Because of the personality of Ronaldo. Ronaldo is more outspoken. And Ronaldo is more... And Messi is more... I think so, from what I heard. But they've got more things to go against with Cristiano because he gives you more. Yeah, totally. Verbally. Totally. Do you know what I mean? Totally. Before I get into number nines, because I can't have you here and not talk about number nines, right?

43:37You mentioned Gareth Bale. How good was he? Gareth Bale. Casemiro said that he was the most complete player ever played with. Gareth Bale was amazing. And I love him so much because with Gas, for example, he was very, I mean, he was questioned about that he didn't want to speak Spanish, right? So he spoke Spanish. He understood his speak. And he was a very good lad in the dressing room. but I had a very close relationship with him, Luca, Tony. These players, they speak good Spanish, but they prefer to speak their own language or English. So I was there speaking English with them like this. It was amazing.

44:10I had such a very close relationship with him because we share so many things as well and trainings. But Garrett Bale was an outstanding and still underrated player. I think he's very underrated. I think he's one of the best players in the world. The situation is like, I don't know. There's so many narratives that I don't understand. You know, I don't know. He scored one of the best goals in Champions League finals history. He won, I don't know, how many Champions League, how many British players can say that he won four, three Champions League, but no one talks about it. Because, I don't know, because just people, look, that's how it is.

44:49If people don't like you, they're going to like you, even if you are Messi, Cristiano, we see that, right? So, but he was such a, but imagine, man, you have, on the left, you have Cristiano Ronaldo. Then on the right, you have Gareth Bale. And then on the center, you have Karim Benzema. Crazy. It's like that. And then say, yeah, to Cerrito, for example, Cerrito went there and was in the bench, of course. What do you want me to do? If they play with four strikers, maybe I will play there. Then Bale got injured and Karim got injured. and then I came in and I did good with Cristiano up front and I did very good.

45:25I scored very important goals. But it was like, wow. It's wow. It's wow. You have those three and it's what? What are you going to do? You know, it's like as a defender, what are you going to do? Oh, yeah. Terrible. Hard. Hard night to sleep. It's hard, man. It's hard to sleep. You mentioned Benzema. What about him? How good was he? Oh, I didn't play as much with him that I would love to because I think, look, he proved that he could be the centre forward of Real Madrid. scored a lot of goals and winning the Ballon d 'Or. Yes, he is. But still, I think he cannot be categorized like a number nine.

46:00And I'm not saying this to disrespect him. It's the other way around. I feel he was always more of like a number 10, like a Zidane essence with this striker mentality. 9.5. 9.5. That's how I described Karim. It was like, wow. Wow. Because it was a delight to see it. Don't get me wrong with Cristiano, with Bale too. But Cristiano and Bale have very familiar traits, more of like effectiveness, sharp, explosive, and in two seconds you're dead. With Karim, it was more of like, it's nice to see him even in trainings, you know, the way that he passes, the way that he moves. Flow, rhythm. Flow, rhythm.

46:45I use the comparison with Zinedine, Zidane, even though I didn't play with him when I saw him. these like rhythm, beautiful things. Exactly. It's true. I mean, that's crazy because even without Cristiano, he ended up winning the Ballon d 'Or. Yeah, totally. And he became the more dominant figure at the club. Haaland. A beast. Do you appreciate his efficiency? No. He still hasn't perfect movement yet. Is it? I think so. And I think he's one of the best movers still now. Look, let's see his goal against Brazil with Dariel you can see 30 seconds before he's walking walking walking, walking, walking he puts in his position and he just does one movement while the ball was going to come he sees where the ball is going to come and he goes I still think imagine that you implement Haaland double movements just implement Haaland double movements he doesn't need to rightfully so he's a beast Erlen what you need to do is I'm going to get you this guy's number and he's going to walk you through this stuff I'm not saying that he doesn't even need it he doesn't need it but if he wants it's like Federer changing his technique exactly it's like he's doing so much right now what he has to it's like this another great take from Thierry fast and strong players normally are not the intelligent ones because they don't need to when you stop being strong or when you stop being fast you start thinking how I take the advantage of it you know what I mean it's like me you can say that I was an intelligent player maybe not the technicality or the 1v1s or very super like oh what a talent he had but he was intelligent why because of this because of this center backs too you were a Rolls Royce because you were intelligent then we have in the other hand the man that he was a fucking beast if he needs to do so and then you two complement each other because Vida did things that you should not that you couldn't but you didn't you didn't have to and then the other way around you two so that's why I feel that Haaland I think still he can still be a better player he is he's great now he's great but there's still room I think he can be phenomenal we'll make the call last one Harry Kane you talked about a 9.5 with Benzema.

49:18He feels to me he's moved into that. How impressed are you with him? Oh my God. And I play against him in some Champions League games. I played twice against him with Bayern Leverkusen. Wow. What a striker. I think it's... I think it's the closest player to Karim Benzema in that sense. Because I think Karim Benzema is in another department because he's 9.5. Because then if you put Lewandowski, you put Suarez, and you put other strikers that they were phenomenal in this generation, but phenomenal. And then you can, I don't even give a shit who's better or not because it's not a matter of that. They're very different.

49:56But Karim was, like I'm telling you, Karim was not a pure killer center forward. Suarez was, is, Lewandowski is, Haaland is, and then Harry. If you give him three chances to score, he will. but he doesn't feel like this killer instinct. It's more of this, I want to play football. I want to have touches. I want to comb. I want to have headers. I want to shoot outside of the box. It's like this type of elegant kind of striker. More of like a Polka. It's like a mix between Polka's coin and Wayne Roney and you merge it, you have Hurricane. Because then Leanie Curry was different and then Wayne was different.

50:39But this guy, it's like a very complete striker. Headers, you have it. Left foot, you have it. Free kicks, you have it. Then assists, you have it. Changes of play, you have it. Holding the ball, you have it. You have everything, man. Very similar as Kari, more type of elegant. Not this killer like Kalano, ruthless. Even though he's ruthless. That's a paradoxical and ironic kind of thing because of course Harry Kane is ironic. You give him two chances in front of the goal, he would put him back in the net. Goal, 100%. But it doesn't seem energetically and body language like Haaland, for example.

51:20Yeah, and obsessed for goals. He's obsessed to play well and the goals will come. And then something that is bringing him up, I'm not putting him down, but something that has helped him as well. You know what I think helped Harry Kane so much in the last World Cup that we saw? that he played with Jude Bellingham. Because I think, wow, what a player, man. So underrated. Jude Bellingham, wow. Yeah? Oh, my God. Do you think he's underrated? Oh, my God. I feel so. I feel so. He's one of the best midfielders in the world in the past three, four years. But when you see, no one speaks about that. He's, wow.

51:54I love him. Oh, wow. And he's worth great. I think that's why you respect him and love him more. Because I know you. And that's something. He's the number 10. And he plays like a number 10. but as well, he defends like a number five. Easy. Wow. That game that he did against me, he came in and suffered. I struggled. He was like, why, Jude? Why you get one of your best games ever against my country, right? But wow. Margot's faster. I think he'll win a Ballon d 'Or one day. And having Jose now, Mourinho in Real Madrid. You know Jose. We'll make him a killer. And Jose loves players like this. So I think he's going to...

52:32You have quality, but it will work. Exactly, exactly. So one of my last questions. If you had to pick a current striker today to be a partner for you, who would it be? I think I'll choose Harry Kane. Yeah? Yeah. Because I think he can do, if we're going to play with two strikers, he can do so many things that I don't have to do. I can run in the challenge, he can come with the ball. I don't know. I think he will complement better with my style of play. Then if I choose, for example, Haaland, that's the other striker that I love, I can do more of movements around, you know, and then he just stays there.

53:11But I think Harry Kane will be more suitable. Yeah, good compliment. Exactly. You mentioned your dad a bit earlier, and then your granddad, who unfortunately passed away. Yeah. You're like the third generation of players who played for Mexico in your family. Like, how much pressure? Was that a lot of pressure for you coming through? yeah and and as well a part of the pressure that i had about being the son of and the grand son of he was the that whatever i achieved it was because of them it wasn't because of me yeah yeah those two things were the the the things to beat for me and thankfully those things that i started the experience when I was young helped my character.

53:57Harden you. I started hardening myself, resilient, this grit, and this, yeah, chip on my shoulder, very unconsciously, because I was a kid and I never thought about it. Like now we're talking it, you know, like it's a separate thing and I can visualize it. I can accept it and then work. It was more of instinct that I was feeling that it was unfair. But that was something that helped building my character for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. We never spoke about stuff like this in the dressing room. We never spoke about feelings. No, no, no. There was no time, Rio, I think. No time in a way of like, because of how demanding the situation was, you know, for us being Manchester United.

54:39It's like, deal whatever you have to deal. You need to play Stoke tomorrow. And then two days after you need to play, I don't know, Inter Milan in the Champions League. And then two days after Chelsea at home. And then two days after another Champions League game against, I don't know, Marseille. As soon as you open that door to the training ground, your problems, they have to stay away. They're just there in the box and then you do what you've got to do. That's true. It's always like that. Now, there's something that I want to add in this conversation that I love the most about the human beings.

55:07For example, I won two Premier Leagues with you guys and we almost won the Champions League and it was amazing, successful. The semi-final of FA Cup 2, everything. I feel that I'm not against people managing their own problems like they want in the way that they want sorry I want to but but or if if I feel you connect more with your teammates and with your manager in that connection you maybe put yourself in a position closer to win more things than not because then if you are with people that you don't give a fuck or whatever but you win something that you don't remember it like what do you see my curriculum that I want this yeah it's nice but then they in the tough moments you get more out of each other sometimes with our teammates rather than with our families we've traveled with sleeping in hotel rooms and we are experiencing the toughest moments together it's true so the connection I think can I'm not saying that it's a guarantee to win not at all but society now is more accepting of that than in our time.

56:23Let's call it the analogy of a pendulum, right? In our days, let's call it an old school kind of situation. It was don't speak about nothing, nothing at all. Just shut the fuck up, you need to deliver. Perfect, that was old school. Now we're going in the, oh my God, everyone, no poor of him. Now they treat like victims. Everyone, I need to have a rest. A rest of what? I needed to travel to United to Mexico to play two days and then going back and then play against Wigan, Hawaii I think the pendulum needs to come in the middle let's speak about our stuff, of course we're human beings let's speak about it, but as well there are things of like, no matter what you're dealing with, you have to deliver, so let's find the balance, because I think we were too old school and oppressive or whatever our emotions or whatever, but now we're going now to soft now, too soft you know, like no much resilience and those characters of like protecting everybody too much now let's get in the middle in the in the like like a meet you know too raw no too well done no medium that's the best medium medium medium yeah exactly but last thing we always get the guys on there they tell us they're five-a-side team no goalkeepers there's five-a-side team of players that you played with that's very difficult wow so difficult well I'm going to start with the easy one because of course it's Cristiano Ronaldo.

57:49Okay. That's one. Oh guys, this is tough. Yeah, Cristiano Ronaldo, then I'm going to say Paul Scholes, Luka Modric. Oh, he was top bar. No, those two, it's, it's people speak about midfielders and, and I'm not going to be wrong, I had Michael Carrick, I had Ryan Giggs, but what, what I saw what I saw and what I lived with Paul Scholes and then I've seen in interviews that you other players Shabby Nista like everyone Pep Guardiola saw the same things that I saw it just confirmed the player that he was right and then Luka Modric for me man wow what was he like was he similar to Scholes or different it's different but different but they have this aura it factor or I don't know what you want to call, that makes them so important and so difficult to describe.

58:51Because you cannot describe post-calls in the ways that we can see it, but we cannot describe it. Because it's not tangible. Luka had that too. Then my other two, man, it's so difficult. I want to put defenders, and I have you, Vida, Ramos. It's like, fuck. More midfielders, you know? Wow. no I put I have to I need to put Ramos Ramos for me it's Ramos he was top it was man you knew it you and Vida are with me I mean if I go to war I choose U3 he's not even I don't play line of 4 I play line of 3 and then I put wingbacks or whatever with U3 I can defend 3 and then one more midfielder and that's it I've been pure attackers but man Ramos was man Ramos was...

59:41He scored big goals as well. Exactly. They give you something. It was... I don't know. No, it's very difficult, man. One more. Yeah, one more. Cristiano, Scholes, Modric, Ramos. And I'm going to put Karim Benzema. I'm going to go easy because I don't want to take you or Vida out. I don't want to do that. I need to choose one of you two and I can't. Don't worry. Karim Benzema. That's a top team. Top team. It's Cristiano, Karim, then I have Paul Scholes and Luka Modric and then I have Ramos Van. I can beat any team of the ones that they told you. Of course, man. Okay. We'll put it to the test. Get in the comments and let us know, guys.

1:00:18Because, man, you're not going to touch the ball for that. And I left Wayne out in my bench. Look, in my bench it will be Wayne, you, Vida, Tony and Michael Carrick. That's my other five-asside team. Imagine that. That team might beat some other teams. Exactly. That's the SOCOM team. Exactly. Well, listen, man. Chicha. Thank you, Rio. Pleasure. Thank you so much, man. Thank you, man. And good luck. Thank you. Good luck to you, too.

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