Could Man Utd Go Down? | Squad’s Greatest Strength is also Biggest Weakness

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0:35Yes, guys, big episode coming up today. Some in-depth questions, some tactics we're going to be discussing. Also, memories of Sir Alex Ferguson fixing structural issues at the club when I was there. Also, this absolute rogue question. Do Man United get relegated come end of the season? Joel, shut up, man. I've retired from football and I haven't had a 12-month period where it's been like, great, talking great about the club it's perfect, what a whirlwind of positivity we've got here, it's not been like that man, it's just unbelievable Rio, I started making content in the Moy season, I haven't done content with us being a success like the day we get to say like this idiot got this year we've won the league oh my god, might just call it a day after that you know I'll be a nightmare for opposing fans to watch

1:30Yes guys, welcome to another episode of Rare Presents. Mr Joel Baer, Mr Steve Housen with me as usual. And today guys, we'll be discussing how we should reflect on that performance against Chelsea. What needs to change, what needs to improve in terms of results and performance. And look at the title rates, which doesn't involve Manchester United at all. Which keeps lighting up with the teams. dropping points teams winning big games monster game I thought yesterday Liverpool versus Arsenal we'll get into that as well you're struggling there big fella you're struggling mate tough weekend yeah we're not involved yeah basically it's been a big week as well for the channel Tevez I really like the idea I love the the Spanish translation the English translation is really good experience for the viewers well done because you're pushing that quality Rio Also, big game at Stamford Bridge this weekend But some people got frustrated, Rio I.e.

2:30myself You saying that It was positives to take from the first half What was you on about, bro? What positives was you talking about there, please? Please, let me know You obviously had your shades on And weren't watching the game I think like I think anybody who actually watched the game Or who went to the game would go Wow, first half I didn't see that coming That's a fact Like Four massive chances missed the team ran the team had a high intensity they were creating chances off of the press four times more XG than Chelsea's I think five more shots were taken by Man Utd in that first half also you look at the rotations of the likes of Bruno and Kunio in that first half especially off winning the ball man I thought the intensity in that first 45 minutes was like especially what they were coming off the back of in terms of results and the spotlight and all of the toxicity that was surrounding the football club.

3:29I didn't see that happening. That's why I thought it was a positive. You lacked cojones, mate. Because every time you had opportunities, sky missing, under pressure. You had Fofana laying it off on a plate. Mate, honestly. I think cojones is maybe the wrong word to use. I think we just lacked killer instinct. We lacked someone who could finish those chances. Yeah, you got there and you panicked. That's what happened. People just weren't good enough in that situation. No, no, you panicked. There were one-on-one situations. And do you know what? I know that you panicked because I'm looking at Stee right about now and usually he interrupts, he cuts me off and he lets me have it per se.

4:10But we all know it weren't good enough. But you panicked, Stee. I don't think we panicked. I just don't think we were good enough. Exactly. week we we've we've been creating chances um you know that that line from the commentary that united have had more shots than anyone else in the league just completely underlines what we've been saying all season we should have signed a striker we still should have enough to not be in a relegation fight but we find ourselves in a relegation fight um and i agree with rio that i don't know if i'm like oh there's positives to take from that because ultimately we got pieced up in the second half.

4:49You did. But it was a good first half. And like all the messages that were flying around up till half time was, yeah, we look good. Where's this come from? And all of those old cliches that you hear about when it's like, you know, a manager's walking towards the sack. They're not playing for him. He's lost a dressing room. All of those sorts of things. You couldn't look at that first 45 minutes and deduce that that was going on at Manchester United. And I don't know how much of that was the selection that he picked, because if you think about the selection that he's picked, Santos, Balaba, Bruno, Mbumo, Cunha, Ahmad, it's a pretty energetic six.

5:27It's six players that are always kind of going to work and graft for you. Now, whether that was luck, whether that was judgment, whether that was by design, I don't know. But we really put the cat amongst the pigeons in the first half. We created like four times the amount of chances Chelsea did, or four times the quality of chances that Chelsea did. There was some brilliant passes. There was a proper Hollywood moment ready for Bruno if he puts the one that Mbumo's just slid right around the back of the defence. It was an unbelievable ball. And then obviously we do put the ball in the net. It is offside.

6:01It's the correct decision. But that's the margins that you're dealing with in football, isn't it? Whereas you go, if that goes in or if one of the others goes in, it's 1-0 United and the way we were playing, we'd have got a second. but that's not how it happens and ultimately we start the second half and I don't know what had happened but it wasn't just from their goal and Bruno sending off we were poor from the start of the second half and then Morgan Rodgers takes advantage of a bit of a sloppy pass and a bit of a heavy first touch from Brian Mbumo but you should be allowed to lose the ball on the halfway line and it not result in a goal Talking about Morgan Rodgers do United have a problem with players running at them carrying the ball Is this something that we're seeing repetitively?

6:43I don't think it's a repetitive thing, but we've seen it a couple of times over the last few seasons. I think Van de Ven, who is it? Van de Ven, he ran like 60, 70 yards with the ball. That was a centre-back. Andy Alanga had done it, didn't he? Remember him? He ran probably about 50-odd yards when Amarim was manager. It's happened again. But you know what? The alarming thing for me was that it happened when we actually, we had players around. Normally, a player runs 50, 60 yards with a ball, but it's a 1v1 or 2v2 or something like that, right? Or an overload. There were still bodies in there and in good positions to really stop this and counteract this run.

7:25But I don't think Morgan Rodgers probably could believe, probably even to today, that he had the space and time he had to run through. And it was like the parting of the seas. I think Martinez is the one, really, you've got to get across. He's got to identify runners on outside of Harry Maguire. he's the one who's got to go on engage the the man with the ball and it didn't happen didn't happen at all and you get punished so this is level and and again it's these fine margins that you a lack of concentration in that moment can undo all the good work of the 45-50 minutes that's gone before and that's what happened and man united aren't the biggest biggest thing after that man united aren't in a place to be able to react in these situations positively the moment they go a goal down, capitulation.

8:08Ria, as a defender, how difficult is it for a defender to know when to engage? Because Steve said that he felt sorry for Harry Maguire. He obviously had a runner on his right-hand side. When do you make that decision? That's the art of the top defenders is the timing and when do you go? I always thought it was, and I never got this right perfectly all the time. This is a hard thing to achieve and to do in the moment in the top top games against the best players but there's got to be a moment where you go you have to go like the edge of your box the 18 yard line you don't want him in your box because then if you do go and engage and there's any contact you're risking a penalty you're at a high risk rather than a free kick when you're outside the box or he's only got to shift it and bang it's and he's a close range to score in the run uh the penalty box so keeping him out as soon as that line you see that line approaching normally you try and go before you get him in there.

9:06But again, I always found that was a difficult part of defending is when to go and engage. But you can't let someone, once they run in that fast, surely at some point in that, it's like four, five, six seconds that you're going, okay, I better go. At some point, there was no point in that three, four, five seconds, then he won and go, let's go to the ball. That was the alarming thing. And for example, we're talking about being able to engage, etc. Like yourself and Vidic, who do you reckon had the best timing when it came to engaging with defenders? Or is it something that you practice as a pair or is that something that you're just born with?

9:46Also, you know, it's communication. I'm a massive believer in like helping each other. That's what great teams have. Great teams have voices. That's where voices come in and go like, go on, go, go. Like you'd be shouting someone, go to the ball. Yeah. But there's a lot of layers to this rather than just going, I'm good at that. that was that that that needs communication that needs identifying the danger smelling it seeing when to go getting your distances right what what one of you goes first I think like and I think that's where me and Vida were a good partnership in that we understood each other really well I understand that Harry Maguire someone should be going in that in that in that defensive line there I know Harry Maguire has to go out there with that runner he's gonna do that that's him that's what he does so I have to then come across that and close the gap like those Those are partnerships.

10:34Those are the communication. That's like understanding each other to help benefit the team. And that just didn't seem to be there in that moment. It seems a little bit basic to me though, man. They've been playing long enough together to have that kind of partnership, in my opinion anyway. The first deer defending's delay, right? You've got to go out and slow it down. And we didn't. We backed off. So we probably got that one a little bit wrong. And that really needs to happen as a unit. If you all step together as a unit and the runner goes in behind you, he's offside, right? So we haven't stepped, we've dropped, we've given him space, he's took the space, he's kept taking the space, and then before you know it, he's inside the box.

11:10But the issue started with, it's a sloppy ball that Mbumo's not looked after. Our reaction to losing the ball on the halfway line needed to be better. If it's better there, we don't end up getting a shot and a goal. But because we haven't reacted properly there, Balaba, I'm not going to criticise Balaba here, and especially because his natural instinct is to someone that's going to chase after the ball, chase after the man. But he has steamed in, maybe with a more experienced partner next to him or someone behind him. And if Harry Maguire tells him to delay there rather than press, this probably doesn't happen.

11:53What we know and what this goal has showed us and what we've been saying for a hour long, Steve, myself and loads of others is that Manchester United cannot allow for a game to become transitional at all at any point because that was a perfect moment there little glimpse of it get opened up I mean you look at Arsenal and you look at Liverpool in the game yesterday right four centre-backs on the pitch all if you said what are your two or three top traits that you've got being physical and ability to run with people is probably two of the three things that all of those guys can do, right? And they're near the top of the tree for them, right?

12:33Even the fullbacks, Orujo, Timber, like, Califuri, like, they're all physical specimens who can run alongside most, but also have a fight with most. And he makes you look at Man United's recruitment over a sustained period of time. Football's moved in a different direction with being athletic and just being athletes as one of your super strengths. And Man United's recruitment hasn't moved along with that time, I don't think. And a great example of that, and Steele knows this at managing, and this is at any level, right? If you've tried everything and you're snookered and you're thinking, what else have we got to do?

13:11What else can we do here? Because I've tried this. I've tried formations. I've tried playing him there. I've tried taking him out of there, putting him in that pocket, etc. Right, you know what? We're going to go man for man all over the pitch and match these boys up. and we're going to go toe-to-toe, nose-to-nose. Man United can't do that. We can't do that against anybody because the profile of players that we have will not win that match-up man-to-man all over the park. We'll get found out physically, right? And I'm talking, if we played whole and went man-to-man, that is a leveler massively for them because I think they go, okay, we can roll our sleeves up and go for this.

13:47If it's a tactical thing, we're going to have the advantage, Man United, because we've got the better players, right? But if it's going to go, let's go physicality for physicality. We ain't winning a lot of games in the Premier League with a man-to-man matchup. My team that people talk about, a great team, this, that and the other. Physicality was one of our biggest assets. We knew we had to outrun and out muscle teams at times. Go anywhere in Europe and go, right, we've got to fight first. But we knew that we could do that. This United team can't go anywhere in the world and confidently go, you know what?

14:19We go man-to-man here and we'll run these boys over because we're out of form here. We're going to lean on our physicality to get us through this tough period. They can't fall back on that. And the game today more than ever is an athletic game. Wait, Rio, I want to understand what you mean by that. Surely you're not saying whole players, for example, are better than Man United. Physically? Physically, it's a conversation. It's an argument you could definitely have. Like, you look at, okay, But they've just come up. No, no, but look in the first half. It doesn't matter. I'm talking about physicality, not quality.

14:55Yeah. Look in the first half against Chelsea, right? Our front players on the counter on transition looked really dangerous. That's where a lot of the chances came on a transition. Bang, right at your throats from the halfway line running. We look very good. We look like a Premier League athletic team in that sense, right? Bar the finishing. You flip that and say, let's go on the halfway line and we're going to have to chase back and play a transition game, right, against opponents. We don't look like a Premier League team. Ruben Amarin was saying this, for ages, the profile of players are not conducive to be able to play man-to-man.

15:31Do you know what I mean? And that's why the team are set up in a certain way. The team was set up at the beginning of the season playing a mid-block. Why? Because we ain't got the profile of players to cover big areas. We haven't. That team yesterday, Liverpool against Arsenal, was a great advert for Premier League football. Fast, intensity, up and at them, aggressive football, right? May United couldn't play that game right now. May United couldn't compete in that game right now because physically we could not go for 90 minutes like that. May United go a goal down, mentally can't compete and sustain that type of intensity.

16:11Liverpool went a goal down and continued at the intensity and continued knocking the door, playing at a high rate, a high pace intensity. Man United can't do that. That game there, Man United don't come to that party. They can't. Yeah, but at least, at least, at least I'm sure Man United would have got a shot at Target though instead of going. That's not the point. My point is not that. My point is why Man United are struggling because we can't fall back on just going, you know what, let's just match these up. That's what a lot of teams end up doing. We can talk about tactics and style, et cetera, right, and make it all fancy.

16:40The game is, a lot of the time, especially in the Premier League, can you match up against him or not? And there's too many areas, I think that we can't physically. People will talk about the talent, the skill, and they should because it was abundant, right? But from a physical point of view, that front line, Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez, it's about as physical as a front line gets, right? Midfield probably wasn't. Carrick and Scholes, not going to cover the hugest of distances, but that's where Owen Argreaves came in because he was like a lawnmower, mate. He's in every single blade of grass. and Fletcher.

17:18And then in the back line, you've got Wes Brown, who's an absolute unit, playing right back. You've got yourself and Vidic. You've got speed, power, aggression, aerial dominance across the both of you. And then you've got Evra. But that team could compete. If you wanted to go to war, that team's happy going to war with you. And I'll throw it back to the 99 team. The 99 team, as talented as you like, but if you wanted a tussle, Yap Stam's going to be like, yeah, Sam, we can have a bit of that. You've got Roy Keane in there, so you don't need to say no more. Dwight York, do you ever play against Dwight York?

17:54One-to-one. Yeah. I can imagine he is so strong and holds you off with one arm, no danger. Like, people look at that team and think it had flair and it had this and it had that, and it did. David Beckham, right? You ain't outworking David Beckham on the right-hand side. Good luck with that. If you want to, And I think you've told us this about Fergie's team talks, about how other managers have come into him and gone, your team graphs like a League Two team, but you've got the quality. That has to be the first thing, that we will outwork anyone, and then our talent gets the opportunity to show up.

18:34That should be the team talk now. I'm telling you, there'll be nothing I'll be talking about. All this shape, instruction, structure, all this stuff, before all that has to come work, run, grit, determination, desire. Like outrun your opponent. If I'm coming in and I'm looking and I'm seeing that you are being beat in your 1v1 duels and your 2v2s in certain areas of the pitch and 3v3s, you are coming off. Get off. You look at someone like Anthony Gordon. Anthony Gordon has gone to Barcelona. I'm not, but there's people out there scratching their head going, And how's he gone there when they could have had Sanso, etc.?

19:14This tells you where the game is today. His ability to repeat sprints at a high level is as good as anybody in the game. His game understanding in that sense, his intelligence off the ball, in terms of transition as well. And he can produce moments for you as well, right? But that bit I said first would be a massive factor in why he's gone to Barcelona. The game is different today. The ask of players forwards is different. Midfielders, defenders. And I think it's also, you look at the profile of defenders that we have, it's a complete mismatch to the attacking side of what we have. We've got forwards that want to just get into open spaces and run and can run, right?

19:51And love seeing open blades of grass in front of them. When we've got defenders, that's their worst nightmare. Man United's counter-attacking is probably our best and greatest strength as we saw in the first half against Chelsea right, but also it's our biggest weakness because it leaves us open and susceptible to counter-attacks ourselves when you go that far ahead the ball's going to come back as quick right, so I look at it and it's almost like a conundrum and you're going well how do we make this work and that's why the mid-block was what we saw earlier in the season because he's trying to protect different profiles within our squad but we aren't a team that are going to go to Old Trafford or go to away games and pen teams back and just recycle the ball and keep that team penned back and so you're in big massive control of the game and spaces we aren't that so again there's got to be a massive overhaul which they're doing at the moment but it's going to take a lot longer than I think any of us believe it or imagine it can be It's not as simple as we as fans always think it is I'm sure there's entire departments or I would like to think there's entire departments.

20:58Do you know what? Sometimes, genuinely, I think people look at the size of the badge at a Premier League club and the revenue and the money that's involved in it and don't realise how fucking amateur a lot of the setups actually are. I hope that there's analysts that are empowered enough to go and speak to the gaffer and go, Oi, have you seen this? Every time X happens, Y happens. Every time this, we do that, they do this. Every time, like every game. So if, because I'm sure we do quite a lot of work on opposition scouting. I presume. Again, I don't know. But I would like to think that we do. I would like to think that, although maybe not, having looked at the Como game and the Spurs game, knowing exactly how it was going to go off and then just walk straight into those traps.

21:41But at the same time, half of me thinks, do you know what? When Antonio Valencia was playing, everybody knew he was going to try and stand you up, go on the outside and bang a crossing. Everybody knew that and he still managed to get away with it because he was so good at doing it. So I don't know how much of it is, are we failing to prepare properly? versus are we actually getting the opportunity to prepare properly? How much work is being done looking into the mistakes that we're making week in, week out? Or are we ignoring them? I can't imagine we are. But how long on the training ground have you got to fix?

22:10I mean, please tell me, you've been in those rooms. You must have been, and Michael Carrick's been in the same rooms you've been in. What happens when you've got a, you must have had an example that you can give us of three, four, five, six, seven games on a bounce, the same things happened. How do you fix it? We had it when René Moulinstein first come in was coaching and was given the kind of like first team coaching responsibility. And he's more of an expressive, open, like expressive coach. So plays with no handbrake at all. So we were getting the ball and opening up the pitch massively, right?

22:44And just being like a really open, fluid team. And it was like most games were like three, two, two, all, whatever, right? 4-1 etc but we were giving up something on average I think 16 or 19 I can't remember what number it was 19 chances a game and I remember after about 7 or 8 games I think it was around a spell when we had the 8-2 against Arsenal right that famous game and I think what score was that again? 8-2 against Arsenal yeah I remember I think it was the manager just called a meeting and was just like guys and he showed us that data that we're giving up all these chances he said we're going to reign it in reign it in now all this I think we're going to be like a kamikaze team.

23:23Was Rene in that meeting? Sorry to ask. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rene was there. Rene was still there. What was he saying? Was he? No, no. Listen, when the manager speaks and the manager pulls rank, that's it. There's no conversation to be had, which is right. And he was still taking the session, still doing it, but the manager would have had, I'm sure, a bit more input into that. No, no, no. We can't be as open and as easy to play against. We've got to be harder to play against because teams are getting too many chances. you can't give teams 19 chances a game on average or whatever it was and expect to win the league so we and those meetings and those difficult conversations like you're right Joel it's a difficult conversation for the manager to have with uh with Rene because he's given full autonomy to coach this team and implement tactics and it's not going how the manager wants it right we're going to change back to and revert back to what I want here this is it and it works and you You go, okay, I understand.

24:18I get that. And the manager, that's where he earns his money. It's all well and good going, let's have less chances. It's the same as going, do you think we could score some more goals? Talking about it doesn't actually fix it though, does it? Was there practical changes on the training ground? Was there scenario training? There was a video showing all of the moments where we're going forward, but they're getting loads of chances off the back of it. how many bodies have we got who are beyond the ball? And look at their bodies now running at two or three defenders. Like, that is schoolboy, guys.

24:54And so we're intelligent enough to understand that. We know what that means. Right, instead of all two or three or four of our midfielders emptying out the middle of the park, two of them go now. And the manager will go, right, identify who those guys are. You can go, but you two maybe just sit there and be security for a bit. But also, it's that in-game understanding as players. there is an intelligence that is on your shoulders as a player. You pay to go out there and play and perform, but you also pay to go out there and understand where the danger is as well. And I look at that from May United's point of view right now and go, it's not rocket science.

25:25What a big problem for May United. Yes, set the team up to not open up weaknesses in certain players' profiles that we have in terms of big spaces and speed, but also as important, probably even more right now from the goals that we concede, please go out there. whoever's defending the cross with some intent to stop the cross. And then when the ball does get in there, if it comes in, please be in the right positions and have the right desire to clear the ball out of your box. There are two basics there that I could see from a mile off. You saw it against Wrexham in preseason. I remember you chiming on about it.

26:00Like, these ain't things that you need an analyst to see. Right, man, we've got loads still to come, right, on this pod, but we'll be back shortly after this. Hey, we're Nick and Jack hosts of the best one yet behind every episode. There's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google doc, the headline hammer with Google workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools. We already use like Gmail docs and sheets, no new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about.

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27:04Question for both. Lissandro Martinez. Obviously, he comes out and he calls out the board. But then he comes in and he has a performance like he did over the weekend. I mean, where are your heads at with Martinez? Steve, I'll start with you. I didn't disagree with what he said. The manner of how he said it and what had led up to that. That can be questioned, but I don't think anyone that's a United fan, Same with Rooney when he did it in 2010. They were both right.

27:42Then it came out that he'd supposedly been wanting to make a move to Atletico Madrid over the summer. I mean, his reports come out overnight now that I've said that he might have actually agreed personal terms ahead of a sale, potentially even in January.

27:58To get the two, I mean, he's a rash player. That's part of the charm of him. You know, that recklessness is actually like usually a positive. It's a little bit like Vidic. Sometimes you want a player that's going to play on the edge. Sometimes it's a bit of an intimidation factor for opposition. It's just a bit of a... Like remember when Rooney had a skinhead and you just thought, I'm not going anywhere near him because he might just lift me, hit me in a knee somewhere. Like Martinez has got that kind of vibe about him, hence the nickname the butcher. This season, it's not really been that. He's been more clumsy than a butcher.

28:33But I think it's weird, isn't it? Because I tried to make this point on a video the other day and I probably was a bit clumsy with it. We would love players to be fans. The reason Solskjaer is as revered as he is at United is because he was basically one of us. And not every player comes in and gets that. Some people treat it as a job. Some people, like Rio came, stayed here for so long and is now a fan. Some players, it is purely business. they don't actually even really like football, they're just good at it. And that's weird for us as fans to sort of get our heads around. It's also weird to think that someone would want to leave our club and play elsewhere because we're never going to do that.

29:13So when you see someone like Martinez, who is someone that you feel got it, he's probably the vice-captain of the club realistically, in terms of players and seniority and the attitude that he's got. And when he's coming out and basically being like, get me out of here, you know you're in trouble as a club and we are in trouble I think it would be wrong for us to pretend otherwise, we're a point above relegation, we're probably not going to beat Villa or Liverpool certainly not going to beat both of them which means there's a real chance that all of the teams behind us can pick up a point and we could find ourselves rock bottom of the Premier League table Do Man United get relegated come the end of the season?

29:55Probably not Joel, shut up man It's a fair question We're going to be in the mix though. If we were in the same situation, you would have asked me five times by now. You're right. You're right. You're right. Just check it. We could do what Spurs did though and just be down there all season and survive. Because at the moment, I mean, they've said like, Cesco's now out until after Christmas. He got injured, I think in April. Steve, how has this got to this though? Like last season, how we were, we played at the end of last season when Michael, since Michael Carrick came in, it's like, what the hell?

30:29Do you know what? Get someone else a little bit. You hear these people. Michael Carrick was never the guy. He was never the right guy. With hindsight, we can all sit here and be like someone who can see into the future and go, I knew that. I knew that, right? And say, I told you so. But like, when someone comes in and does as well as he done, won the most points out of any manager since he came and signed at Manchester United, that warrants an opportunity. In all walks of life, that would get an opportunity. People are saying, oh, yeah, but he was never... What do you mean? it's like if Ineos hadn't given him that job and then Man Utd had given it to someone else and they'd started the way they have now everyone would go you were crazy not to give him the job it's crazy like that that's football fans but at the same time I do feel like a lot of your fans generally didn't believe that he was the guy sometimes I even wonder if the ownership thought he was that guy because they were taking long to make that decision yeah but I'm not comparing it to someone like Alex Ferguson but that scenario could ring true for someone like him if like people before always come from Aberdeen like from Scotland Scotland to Scottish League like no matter what he's done in Europe but he's in Scotland and he's come to Man United and he's struggling and if Mark Robbins doesn't score that goal everyone's going I told you he wasn't the guy I told you he wasn't the guy do you know what I mean?

31:42Do you know 38 years ago October November 1988 Sir Alex Ferguson went nine games without a win How many people how many people would have been going I told you from Scotland and we're putting all our eggs in the basket with Alex Ferguson from Scotland, get him out of here. I'm telling you, there'll be loads of people saying that. It happens. When Mikel Arteta was coming ninth, Steve kept reminding me every week. Mate, you wanted him out. We're about to go back to back. You wanted him out. Hey, Rio, what's your thoughts on Lissandra Martinez, mate? Wait, wait, wait, wait. Go back on the thingy, right?

32:17You're on a documentary saying you want him out for starters. Exactly. You said, what's changed from last season? I think there's probably a good handful. Number one, Bruno Fernandes. Bruno Fernandes last season was playing at a level that was just one of the best players on the planet he is not even one of the best players in the team at the moment so that's a problem now that doesn't stop us scoring goals because the chances are still there but we are struggling with goal scoring we've decided that we don't want to defend our box anymore for whatever reason that is I also think that we've tried to hold more ball if you look at the data from last season, United actually, when we had more possession, we were poor.

33:03And when we had less possession, less than 50 % possession, we were better. And we played as a, like you said, a mid-block team that could use the threat of Ahmad and Bumo, Cunha on the counter. And we did. And then I think one that everyone's massively underweight in, because we've been so poor at set pieces with the ball and so poor at set pieces without the ball, is Casemiro. Casemiro was dominant in both boxes let alone what he did between you know open play in both boxes Casemiro just always seemed to be the one that was winning those defensive headers and obviously he was a threat when we had a set piece going the other way as well that's completely disappeared so when you put all of those things in combination and the fact that you know teams want to press in a certain way the easiest plan B when a team presses used to go long.

33:55We're going wrong to a five foot nine striker. Like, me and Joel are going to beat him in the air. Do you know what I mean? Like, it's just not the game and I don't know what you can do. Outside of putting Harry Maguire there, I mean, that's a, it'd be a hell of a ballsy move to almost go completely NFL style with it from like special teams. As soon as we get a goal kick, Harry Maguire goes up there and Bruno comes to help players play out. That might be the move. Harry Maguire hold it up. We get over the halfway line. Harry Maguire drops back in at defence. It would be some genuine tactical innovation, but it's never going to happen, is it?

34:29Because no one's got the boners to do that. I don't think so. I'm going back, Rio, to the Martinez point. Yeah, no. I think he's probably sitting there and going, you know what, I couldn't have spoken at a worse time. Team's not playing well. I'm at fault. I've got my fingerprints on some of the goals that are going in lately. The Solanke goal before, the Rodgers goal at the weekend, they both jump out at me, but there's more. Yeah, I just think his timing was wrong. I agree with Steve. I think what he was saying, if he believes that and he's had those conversations behind closed doors, then he's got an opinion on it.

35:07He's playing. He's in the club. He's there. He knows what's going on behind the scenes. I do think he should have gone and had it direct with the people he was talking about and had it out with him. But when you're doing that, I always feel when I played, if I was going to speak out, I didn't speak out publicly like that but if I spoke out in a change room I best believe I better be playing well because I know that the manager is sitting there going you're not playing if you carry on I knew I could speak in certain situations because I'm playing next week as well by the way and I'm doing my job I'm playing, I'm playing I'm an 8 out of 10 most weeks I think he's probably lucky right now that Man United are in a position they're in that they don't feel there's other players that they want to put in there right now and just put them out of the team Man United aren't in a place where they can just go to a playlist and you, for stepping out of line, you're out.

35:57I think now it's time to go to the most important section of the show, really, innit? I'm going to go to a call. Hello? Every week he's got a call, mate. Oh, mate. Liverpool versus Arsenal. I'm on record saying that. Can we talk about the penalty first? Because that's a penalty all day long. Yeah, it's not a penalty. VAR's got to do his job. Look at the one on Rodri that they pulled back for days against us. I agree with Jamie Carragher. It was so much worse. VAR's going to be an issue. Wait, what did you just say? Jamie Carragher, I don't agree with much that he says. We don't agree on much, me and him.

36:31But I agreed that VAR, the way he spoke about VAR was very good. Elaborate, please. No, he just said that VAR just needs to step in and do his job. How is VAR not just taking that back and going, he's got a handful of his shirt and not giving the penalty? I blame Isak. You're playing at the highest level in a Premier League and you know how important this game is. besides the fact that they didn't get any shots on target and you you you didn't even attempt to go down or at least badger the referee i'm sorry that's the point that was jamie carriga's point jamie carriga's point was that like he shouldn't have to say a word that's the point of var the point of var is that he should take it out of any player so what why is var there that if the players is gonna have to go and actually badger the ref to get var to have a look at it var's there to take it out of the refs or the players hands and go whoa guys bring this back there's been a foul penalty no it happens but if it does but i still feel like the players should have that kind of hunger i i struggle rio to see you in a day like today if there's var and someone does that to you and you're not saying anything because no no i would go crazy but that's not my point the point was that no player should have to go mad because we now have the technology that is making sure that all these things don't go unnoticed and they're picked up that's what's point.

37:47I mean, mistakes are going to happen. It doesn't take away from the fact that we gave an absolute defensive masterclass. And my thoughts are that if it was Antonio Conte, if it was Jose Mourinho, we would have been getting praise for it. We've praised the Italians for many years. Oh, Serie A, Italian football. We lured all these great defenders because of how tough they are and the 1-0 wins. Why is it that when it's Mikel Arteta, it's some sort of an issue? We've hardly got a striker and we're going away and we're beating teams. First time since 2012? I thought it was a magnificent performance.

38:20I think Anfield has been an absolute crazy place for teams to go. They've been able to drag results out of nowhere because of the environment and the atmosphere that's created at Anfield. So their record there tells you how difficult it is to go there. But I think Mikel Arteta has done an unbelievable job. And I look at this Arsenal team and again, I think their physicality is one of the standout features of what he's created there. You saw the players that you brought on all quick, strong, aggressive, before anything, before you look at anything, they come in and you go, they've got monsters on the pitch.

38:57Now, they became a bigger team when they put their subs on. It was crazy, right? And one of the alarming, well, not alarming, but I think one of the things that I look at and I think here get great pleasure in seeing, when they turn the ball over, right, give the ball away, anywhere on the pitch, please go back and just look at how fast they all sprint back into position, into shape. It is admirable. It is a joy to watch. It's what, as a manager, I'm sure he's sitting there after with his hydration drink, swirling it in his cup, sipping it after the game, talking to your opposing manager about that.

39:33That'd be one of the things he's going, the way we get back into shape and don't allow team space. And I think Odegaard's another one. Sorry, Rio, before you go into Odegaard, did you see what Declan Rice said about that exact point that you said about getting the ball back and stuff? No. You might not have seen it because obviously you're in Dubai, but he said he put it on Gabriel Hines, you know. He said, Gabriel Hines is a madman. Those were his words, but he said, but he makes us work really hard. So not only when he's bombing forward and getting the ball in deck, but even on the way back as well.

40:04That was his game. That was his game, Gabriel Hines. He was a madman, but he obviously looks like he's turned into a great coach and he brings intensity. You can tell that immediately when you see him on a touchline. He was an intense guy. and he brought that to his coaching. But to go back to the point about Odegaard, again, we look at him and think about player and full retention and yes, he has a lot of that, right? But again, I think if you ask Mikel Arteta why he's in that team, one of the first two or three things he's in there for is he is the starting point in terms of pressing. He's game IQ and understanding of when to go, his distances, his timing, the speed at which he approaches players.

40:42I mean, he's the one who started the goal. he's pressing he gets them the opportunity to get that going I think with a Declan Rice it's more visible you see it you know what he does you can see it but there's little details in the way that Odegaard plays that pressing that ball retention easy pass the five yarders the ten yarders just keeping that ball and just and managing the game I think in and out of possession I think is underestimated understated and he is such a valuable component in the way that Arsenal play doesn't jump off the page to you. I'm not the flashiest player, but a huge importance.

41:16And that takes me to you, Stephen Housen, where last season I had apologized to you for Odegaard's performances and saying that Bruno was better. I would like to officially withdraw my apology and go back to my original stance that Odegaard wipes the floor with Bruno Fernandes. I mean, Rio, when you're comparing the team. Farb is temporary, plus is permanent, mate. The way that they play football is very different. And I think even if you go to the pressing, like, And if you compare the way that Bruno presses to the way that Odegaard, Odegaard, when he goes, the whole team follow him. And you see moments when Bruno goes, he's like he's on his own.

41:53And it's like, is that by design or is that he's just ill-disciplined? I don't know. But there's a difference in the way that Odegaard will do that. And again, the teams are at different phases in their development and different places altogether. So it's a difficult way to, I know you shouldn't even be comparing them, but you have to say that I look at, again, they're not the same, right? And you mentioned him earlier, by the way, Steve. Look, Tevez. Look at the way Tevez used to press. He was frantic. He was aggressive. He was like a whirlwind of madness, right? Odegaard does it in his own way, but his importance is probably as much for the way that Arsenal play.

42:37Yeah, Odegaard's better than Bruno. Listen, I'm moving on to City. They've dropped more points. This time, they got pecked by the Seagulls. Brighton, was this a bad day for City or should more credit be given to Hursler's team? Well, the Brighton keeper was unreal, man of the match. The amount of saves he made, I'm telling you, he was brilliant. It wasn't for the want to try for this Man City team to get points on the ball, but the goalkeeper, they could be there today and they wouldn't have scored. Wow. Wow. You know what? I think you look at the Brighton team and the way that they're performing.

43:12I think Herzl's name has been mentioned for Man United. And he kind of like, he pushed it back and he was like, listen, I'm happy. I'm in a happy place right now. And you can't put money on what that means, right? But I think you've got to look at it. And I think if you look at it from his standpoint, he's in a situation where previous managers have thrived. De Zerbi, Potter now him obviously right and they're surrounded by an environment that looks after their managers, an environment that supports their managers which is totally the opposite to Man United and so I understand what he's saying and he's distancing himself from that job and you've got to look at it, they're run on data when they're recruiting players, it's strictly run on data there's a total understanding of exactly who they are, the organisation is run totally different to Man United at every level.

44:08And again, they've already identified the next one or two people that are potential managers if he was to go. Every position's like that. They already got these people on their database. And it just seems and feels very different in the way it is. And it is very different to the way Man United is run. And you look at Man United's organisation right now, it doesn't look pretty from the outside. I'm not in there. We're not in there. We're not privy to that. But from the outside, when you look at it, It looks messy. It looks like there's, there's, well, the results tell you that anyway. I got into it.

44:42Yeah. Do you think it's the hardest job in the world? I was having a chat with my mates this weekend and we're trying to go through the hardest jobs in the world. And obviously you fall to Real Madrid or Man United. What do you think is the hardest job in the world right now? Man United must be. It must be. Man United is like, the club's in disarray at the moment. there's players coming out speaking it's a toxic environment um the confidence is on the floor not getting results like there can't be many different more difficult jobs right now and you and again people are saying hurts and people like him but he's a young manager imagine bringing him into that like it's such a big call for him to make that call to go into that environment and jump from the environment that's so positive where he is right now it'd be a i think a crazy decision for him to make if i'm thinking about him and that's before you even consider what the squads look like and we've been talking about on him for weeks the profile of this squad it's a difficult squad I think to manage and to get what he wants and you look at what he's got his team playing like the physicality is such an important part of the way that he sets his team up the DNA huge making sure that they win their individual jewels and I think one of the number one ingredients that he's put into his team is the the ability to play a high intensity for long periods in games.

46:03That's why they're doing so well. And he goes into Man United, he's flipping that script completely upside down and having to work with a squad that aren't going to be able to, I think, right now, perform the way he'd want them to perform. Very, very big ask for someone so young, so inexperienced, and at a place where it's so organised and so controlled and so settled. Very different, total opposite to what it would be experiencing at Man United. Before we go, What about Ole Gunnar Solskjaer saying that he's got unfinished business at the club? Rio, could he be back at the wheel? Where's the pen?

46:42I can't see that happening, man. We've been there. Like, if he comes back as interim, maybe if there's a gap, if that was to happen at some point, I don't know. But, like, we all know, man, looking back ain't the way. It's never as good the second time around, is it? I think with these managers when they come back. so I mean you say that Zidane did a good job second time you also got to think look at who his assistants were Kieran McKenna and Michael Carrick you're not getting that band back together again no they're not they're not going to go back listen for Oli it'd be great like and good luck to him if he can wish that in and it comes in what a wish that is and what a what he's got he needs to keep rubbing that genie but Rio Oli's back at the wheel he picks up the phone he goes I want you as part of my staff you can pick any role that you want what role are you having any role at the football club whatsoever they've given him he's not a head coach he's a manager they've changed the tune he's a manager yeah so he's gone I want you involved I'd go in as coach I'd go in as head coach and I'd be rattling a few of them boys I'm telling you I'd go in and rattle the place up turn it upside down chairs tables flying hydration drinks hitting people in the face the lot HR meetings no no no HR I'm head of HR good luck with that oh man but listen everybody watching please make sure you keep on watching Joe just before we go Steve how hard is this at the moment man doing these shows like it's so it's a right laugh mate by the way yeah absolutely do you know what I keep talking about with people when people go oh what's it like how is it and I'm like mate I've retired from football and I haven't had like a 12 month period where it's been like great talking great about the club it's perfect what a whirlwind of positivity we've got here it's not been like that man it's just unbelievable I started making content in the moist season I haven't done content with us being a success like the day we get to say like this idiot got this year we've won the league oh my god might just call it a day after that I'll be a nightmare for opposing fans to watch I think you should go back to the moist period Like I said the other day, I spoke with him and, mate, I don't know, man.

48:59You might have got rid of him too soon. By the way, it's mad, isn't it? Arsenal are doing really well. And I think the way their clubs run now is great. And they're the benchmark right now, yeah? It is like funny that these sliding doors moments, like people like Joel, there was loads of their fans that actually wanted Arteta out. It's mad, isn't it? It's just that close. It can be that close to getting it wrong or getting it right. And good luck and well done to Arsenal. I'm sure United fans felt the same about Sir Alex Ferguson. I mean, to be honest, we're actually celebrating the 40th anniversary of Sir Alex Ferguson's appointment later this week with a special episode with Giggsie.

49:40But I'm pretty sure, you've mentioned it yourself, Rio, that they weren't sure. And we as fans, we as people, we're all there. Sometimes you get it right, sometimes you get it wrong. What I would say, I think Mikel Arteta does deserve his flowers. He's had time. He's built in a real methodical way. You can now see clearly what he was trying to build. If at any point there was a bit of a doubt of what he's going to try and achieve here and how he was going to do it, he's built a robust, strong, dynamic, hungry set of players to go and represent Arsenal. And they're doing it in his way. and some might say, oh, there's not enough flair and whatnot.

50:23But I think it's a team that a fan base can be very proud of because they're hardworking first and foremost and everything else is a cherry on top. And again, Mikel Arteta deserves huge credit and the people behind the scenes and giving him that time to build. And Graeme Souness shouldn't be so quick to say that our players are limited, etc. and giving it all of that. Do you know what? Can we just talk on that point? You see when Graeme Souness says that, yeah? you could pick a part in anyone's game every player has a part of their game unless you're like the aliens right but every player's got a part in their game where you go well he's not good at that or he could be better at that and if you think that Declan Rice in terms of receiving the ball under pressure could do more is not as good as I don't know a Vettinia or something like that I could go in other parts of Vettinia's game that he's not as good as Declan Rice do you know what I mean but I'm not saying Declan Rice is better than Vitina.

51:18I'm just saying that there are parts of everyone's game that you could pick a hole in and you could find someone better at it. But Declan Rice is good at a hell of a lot of things. Rio, what was your weakness as a footballer? Especially when I was younger, and I think most young defenders find this, is concentration. Concentrating for the full 90 minutes without a blip in that concentration was the hardest thing. And I mean like little things, like when we're attacking, I'd be resting when I was younger. and I'd be like looking at the striker thinking yeah you ain't going to do nothing this week and all of a sudden they win the ball and two seconds later they're on the edge of our box and I'm like where am I, what am I doing, oh my god I've lost him like those are little things, immaturities in defenders that come with experience and come with age and more games that was the biggest thing for me I found as a, especially a young player growing up and even as a senior player to maintain consistent concentration through games is like that separates good from top defenders.

52:18And I think, Rio, I know we should wrap up now, but that's kind of what that game showed yesterday, isn't it? Like it was high and tense, but you could tell like your concentration, you couldn't lapse. Gabriel, that's why I love Gabriel. Gabriel, people get onto him about like, because he's quite animated, but I think he's doing that to keep himself in the game. I used to have to shout and scream. If I weren't shouting and screaming, I weren't in the game. And I know I was going to switch off at some point. He's animated. He's on it. He's shouting. He's jostling for every decision. He's in the game.

52:48He's in the moment. And you need players like that in your team if you're going to be successful. Does Saliba get back into the team when he's fit ahead of Konza? I think Saliba is one of those guys that you have to find a way to play him in your team. He's that good. I think he's top. And by the way, I said to my son yesterday, watch Konza. Everything he does is efficient. And it's a great problem for Mikel Arteta to have. and I wouldn't be surprised if Konza goes back to right back and Saliba gets in the team. What, ahead of Timba? Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. Konza is top. Konza is top, top, top, again, another one I thought Man United, how did they let that go?

53:26He's a top player, right? But he's given Mikel Arteta some really, really, really big decisions and good headaches to have. You want those headaches as a manager. What a sign him to come in, slipped in seamlessly, putting in big performances. when Saliba came out last time he lost the league by the way yeah you know I love my guy but we ain't really missed him yeah no that's testament to the recruitment well done again alright anyway guys make sure you like share comment and subscribe and make sure that you message Rio and Stee because they need all the love and support that they can get make sure you check out that Tevez video there's going to be more Rio meets I'm sure and I'm looking forward to that episode with Giggs I like those by the way they're really good yeah nice one we're sitting down with a couple of like top can't even say their names but where yeah me and Stee are still waiting to see whether our phones are working Stee actually put your phone on because I might be coming to Manchester soon so you'd want to be there for this one oh what are you thinking I don't know the dates I'll give you the dates soon I'll let you know say no more guys Joel Baer Stephen Alston Ria Ferdinand signing out peace

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