Have Manchester United solved their ‘graveyard position’? | Mason Mount has thrown spanner in the works

0:0033 days, 33 episodes, no off switch. From the goals and the glory to the politics and the problems of the World Cup, if you want soccer analysis from a podcast that's been over-analyzing the game for more than 20 years, then this is it. Join me, Max Rushton, and our expert team of soccer journalists every day of the tournament. Can England end 60 years of hurt, or will this be another year of falling just short? Probably. World Cup Daily, listen wherever you get your podcasts, or watch full episodes on YouTube. so we've got a message here from blue victory the question is Rio who is the better midfielder at the moment between Declan Rice and Moises Kayseda

0:43yes guys we are back with another episode of Rio presents and we're brought to you by Crafted one of our partners a great partner but yeah man guys I'm here with Joel and Steve as usual man And my guys, my two co-hosts are here. Guys, man, what are we saying? Steve, you look a bit happier.

1:04It's a clean sheet, Rio. Good shout. Good shout. I mean, look, we've got to start off with the Sunderland game. Of course, that's what you're talking about here. But I want to talk about Lemens, the goalkeeper. What were your thoughts on it, Steve, when you threw him in goal? Was you confident with him more than Bayern de? I think I've made my thoughts on Bayern Deer quite clear. Yeah. I think that's the most diplomatic thing I could say about it. I don't know if Le Mendes is good enough to be Manchester United, Premier League starting goalkeeper week in, week out, but I know he's comfortably better than Bayern Deer.

1:44And for now, that means he plays. So it's as simple as that. And when you're talking about the victory itself, Rio, looking at the situation and the circumstance how big and monumental was that for Ruben Amarum? Well, I think that there would have been serious conversations being had if they had not beaten Sunderland. I didn't want to say it before the game but I just feel that after the result the previous week and then if they had lost to Sunderland I think it would have been a difficult situation for Ineos to be in to I think not consider kind of relieving of his duties. But I think he's got to live another day because he's got a result.

2:25And that's what we've been talking about. We've been talking about, can you just get some results? Can you find some consistency in results? Yes, in an ideal world, performances will be key in that as well. But I don't think we're in a position to be worried about performances as much now. You need to get some points on the board, get the team getting a bit of momentum and picking up points and getting up the league. Tactically, Stee, what are you saying? Did you see any different shapes? because you were talking about this last week. Did he tweak anything? What did you notice? There was different shapes, yeah.

2:57So I've sent Rio some photos. There's about five or six different lots of formations that you're seeing, which is what always makes me laugh when people are digging out the fact that we play a 3-4-3 because at no point in the game does it ever resemble a 3-4-3. It's six or seven different formations depending on the game state, where you are on the pitch, who's in possession what you're trying to do so i did see some tactical tweaks i think there was different options in the build-up there was different options when we didn't have the ball i saw way more 4-4-2 without the ball than i've ever seen from ruben amirim but i think the biggest tactical tweak was i don't know if it was because it was a person i suspect it was tactical because I saw Mbumo doing the same thing.

3:47It was, Mason Mount was joining the midfield quite a lot and it looked like at times we had a front two, but then Mbumo would do it and Mount would push up a little bit higher. So you're like, ah, this looks like it could be instructions because sometimes you get to the point where it's just a single player is doing something on their own back, isn't it? Whereas that's not necessarily what happens. You know, quite often it is instructions and I thought it was instructions in this instance yeah and you know what when you look at the actual quote as well regarding Mason Mount I thought he had a really good performance well taken goal by the way he said I think it was so important for us to start sharp that was something that we spoke about in the dressing room and Bruno said in the huddle before kickoff that the energy at the beginning of the game helped us get the goal and settled us I'm gonna throw this to Rio because it's interesting that they're talking about that sort of stuff that you know the energy and the mentality like I expect my professional athletes to go into every game like it's their job because it's their job and like I expect their motivations to be high I expect us to attack every single game like can you give me a single reason why Manchester United should be thinking about starting a game other than quickly and aggressively.

5:12So I'm going to ask Rio, did you ever have to re-up your mentality, re-up your motivation or think about anything along those lines before a game? Or was you kind of switched on for the start of every game? No, I think that's a professional footballer's mental warfare that goes on every week. Getting yourself in the right frame of mind and the right zone for that particular match. Now, getting yourself up for a game against Arsenal, Liverpool, those type of teams, that's not difficult. It's the games like these against Sunderland, the teams that you're expected to win, where you feel some people can be guilty of taking their foot off the pedal a little bit, just taking it a little bit easier, maybe not preparing as well for the games, taking a few shortcuts in their pre-match routine.

5:59That's the type of stuff mentally you've got. That's a mental warfare challenge. That's one of the things I found really I had to focus in and zoning on before a game and get my pre-game stuff done. Because if I didn't get my pre-game mindset right, a lot of the time you make mistakes in the games. That's where a lot of mistakes are born out of, that lack of prep or that little bit of foot off the pedal element. So I understand what he's saying. But what I would say is that sometimes you do need that voice. We've done all the tactical work. We know what we're doing tactically. but without the intensity and that first 10 minutes of really going after them it could all fall down.

6:38Now I think there's a caveat to that as well. They started frantically the first 10 minutes both teams did really. Got a goal obviously through Mason Mount, a very good goal but the difference is as well you're playing against Sunderland, no disrespect. It ain't like a team you're playing against who are going to come and punish you and yes, Sunderland had a couple of chances to score goals but they weren't punished and I think that's been the key. Man United often have been punished in situations like that where the other team, you give them a little half leg up and they've taken it and punished Man United and all of a sudden now, that moment creates absolute panic within the Manchester United team because of the lack of confidence.

7:12Didn't happen this week, luckily. So I obviously coach grassroots football and I find the same thing with my lads. If we're playing top of the league, top two, top three, the lads are on it. There's an energy in the changing room and I can usually tell when we go out and do the rondo before we start the warm-up, if the lads are on fire in that and lighting each other up when they make someone I know we're going to start the game well but if it's a little bit quiet a little bit flat I worry for how we're going to start did you have any sort of hacks to get yourself switched on and to remind yourself that you can't start any game easy yeah my main thing was going around the changing room before the game and giving short sharp instructions to everyone like Nani was always like assist goals.

8:00Rooney, the attacking players basically, assist and goals. Assist and goals. If I knew there was a weakness that they were playing directly up against, I'd definitely highlight that. Go on, make sure you rinse him. Also, someone like Gary Neville or Wes Brown, someone that played on my right-hand side, I'd treat that like that's our channel. Nothing gets down our side this game. Just to refocus myself, but also to focus my partner there. Then I'd go to Vidic on my left. Nothing between us. I'd cover you, you'd cover me. Simple, sharp. Carrick, I'm going to scream all game up, back, left and right.

8:40Make sure you're on it. No balls into the front man. Little details like that, quick, simple ones that gets them going. And I'm sure if you spoke to all those guys now, they'd probably remember my shouts before a game because I was consistent. They were short and concise. That's what you need at that point. Attitude. and tactics. I think people want to talk about tactics and managers and that all the time, but how much of it is down to players on the pitch just doing their jobs? Massively, massively. I reckon Amrim, half of he's scratching his head and going a bit grey underneath it and losing a bit of hair here and there in his time at Man United has been because it's not been about his controllables.

9:24It's been about players making individual errors and affecting the outcome, which in turn affects the result. Players going out and doing their thing sometimes alleviates any tactical approach that a manager's had. Do you know what I mean? How many times do you see a player just rip up the script book and just do something outrageous and you go, wow, well, that weren't planned? I've got a question for Stee. When you're looking at Manchester United's starting 11, do you know what it is? No. Of course we don't. Because you know, like back in the day, I could tell you who started in your team, Real.

10:01I could tell you who started in the Invincibles team. Even right now, we've got the best squad in the league, Arsenal. But I can still tell you who's going to be starting, right? Steve, when you look at Manchester United, do you know you're starting XI? Yeah, I don't necessarily agree with it, but I think I know it. Although Mason Mount has thrown a little bit of a spanner in the works at the moment with his performances. Because he was class on Saturday. And he's had a couple of little real good cameos this season where he's shown quality. There's obviously something about him because he kind of gets accused of being teacher's pet by every single person who coaches him.

10:36So he must genuinely follow the instructions and be really coachable and be a proper good egg in the changing room because he seems to just get selected out of nowhere for every single manager that's ever managed him, doesn't he? Yeah. But again, what is the benchmark of a Mason Mount performance? What's the identity of a Mason Mount performance? What's in his makeup consistently when you see him? Quality passing, pressing, energy. Energy, pressing, a work ethic. They're the three basics that are just something that he could be playing rubbish in a two out of ten with the ball, but you're going to get the other side to him.

11:17So if you're a manager, Steve, of a team, you take that. Listen, I want the quality and I need the quality, but at least if I know I'm definitely you're going to get hard work, graph intensity that could feed out to the other team. More often than not, you're going to play that player. Yeah, you go with trust, don't you? Yeah, you trust him. We changed apart, and no one's asked about my little pub team here, but we changed apart what we did a couple of years ago and went with the players that we could trust more. Like, I stopped selecting the so-called talent lads and I went with a bit more of a grafting team and we got promoted.

11:56I think that there's absolutely something in that. Like, if I can trust, I would rather take 6.5, 7 out of 10 every single week over a 10 out of 10 one week, and I don't even know if you even come in the week after. Yeah, 100%. I agree. And a player would want that in their team as well, by the way. Yeah, trust, I think, is the most important thing. I didn't get your thoughts on Lamence, because yes, the shot stopping was nice, and it's different to what we've seen with Bayern D. but the claiming of the balls, the claiming of crosses, not just inside the six-yard box, but one of them was outside the six-yard box.

12:34Talk to me. That must instill so much confidence in the back line and then it spreads through the team. You've got to bear in mind that whether you support the goalkeepers that were there before or not, most games were coming out of and there was a question mark or something, an incident that happened in the game and was talking about on our show or loads of other different shows, right? If they're talking about it on our show, imagine what they're thinking inside the dressing room when they're thinking about their goalkeeper. So for a goalkeeper to come out, you know the feeling when a ball's coming in the box and they're a big team, aggressive, and the keeper comes out and claims it.

13:12That feeling of looking down at him on the floor when he's getting back up and you're going, you know what, that's my keeper, man. That's my GK. Do you know what I mean? And it's like, I don't think they've been able to say that for a while because there's been so many different mistakes and whatnot that's gone on in questionable decision-making. But he just looked very, very, very secure. And I go back, Courtois left me a voice note a few weeks ago when we made the decision to sign him. And a lot of it was about a stable, steady keeper, huge talent, great, massive potential. And he looked exactly like what Courtois said in that voice note in his first game for Manchester United.

13:51And by the way, Man United's goalkeeper. position has been a place that has been a graveyard for many players. Steve, on the right-hand side, you had Amadealo and you had Mbwemo. You saw them connecting, linking up. How good can that connection be if it does click? I think Mbwemo might be our best player at the moment. What I love about him is how often he checks his shoulder as the ball's on its way to him. and he's able to take that information and then make a good decision once the ball arrives at him. The amount of times we played the ball into him and he had his back to a defender and he turned the right way because he knew where that defender was and started an attack for United and then linked it back up with Ahmad and then got on the end of it.

14:38It hasn't been productive yet in terms of him getting a ton of goals and assists. I think he got an assist at the weekend. But it's coming. You can see it. He probably should have done better with the good chance that he had in the first half against Sunderland, where he's entered the box and he's stuck it high and wide. But you can see the patterns emerging. And we mentioned one before the season started, once we'd signed Sesco, or after we'd signed Sesco, about that run-on that he's going to do. And you can see it happening as the ball's going up to Sesco. He's gambling, he's getting in behind and expecting that flick on.

15:14And it won't come off every single time. and sometimes you'll lose a second ball if the ball goes the opposite way. But when it does land at his feet, like we saw against Chelsea, he's going to cause problems with that. But it wasn't just him that was doing it. Mason Mount was doing it as well. And he was coming and occupying the half space and getting away from the back line and Mount was doing it. That's why I think that that looks coached and tactics, that they were both sort of penduluming each other. One would come off and get into a bit of space and there's no negatives to that sort of movement, I don't think.

15:45because if the centre-half follows you, then you can look for the flick onto Ahmad or you can try and play it off one and get it in behind for Ahmad because they're not picking him up. Or if they don't follow you and they've stayed in the back line wary about what's going on with Ahmad, now you're in space and he can get on the turn and actually move the ball forward himself. So I'm seeing things starting to click a little bit. It hasn't clicked yet, but I can see him being a real problem. And if I was a betting man, I'd be sticking first goal scorer at Anfield on Mbumo right now. Wow. Next game is against Liverpool after the international break.

16:24Rio, are you confident, yes or no? To go to Anfield and get a draw would be a massive, massive result for us, given that they're the champions of last year. Yes, they're out of form at the moment, but I wouldn't say that we're in any better form than they are. I just think that as I said their experience the magnitude of this game for both cities and what it brings as an atmosphere at Anfield will be rocket fuel in that place and I want to see how our players actually firstly approach the game but then how they react to that atmosphere is going to be interesting to see because like I said any form of negativity or momentum or momentum swing in a game has caused us massive issues in this season and last season.

17:09And I'm hoping that that might, with this one result, it's a lot to expect, but we'll see an improvement, I hope, in that aspect. Because we are going to be under it at times in this game. At times? A lot. I don't know if I'm more confident or less confident that they're on a three-game losing streak. I wouldn't have minded if they had just, like we were speaking about it, weren't we, that they weren't in good form. Like they weren't winning. And I think we literally said, you're not allowed to analyse them because the reply is, we've won every game this season, shut your mouth. And then as soon as they win, well, it was as soon as they lost two, Jamie Carragher and that was like, actually Liverpool have not been all that well this season.

17:49Then they lose again at Chelsea. And I thought Chelsea were very good value for that win, by the way. I now think this Liverpool team doesn't lose four in a row. And it certainly doesn't lose very often at Anfield. But how satisfying would it be for the first back-to-back wins under Ruben Amirim to come by beating Liverpool, the champions that spent all the money and jewels on earth in the summer to ruin their team and actually get a win over the champions. Mate, it's a big total drive. How would you set up then against them? Like, yeah, I know you're saying that they might not lose four times in a row, but let's just say United, obviously you want to beat them.

18:31How do you set up against them? Where are their weaknesses? Their weaknesses, is they got like nine attacking players. Every single player in that team outside of the two centre-halves, this is not the Liverpool team of a few years ago where it was Mane, Firmino and Salah and you used to have Trent and Robertson push up and that five would attack. You would have the two centre-halves would sit, but the midfield was like when it was Henderson and that, they just, all they did was rat and get the ball back and they were excellent at it, sadly, right? But this team isn't that. they were last year I don't think there was quite as aggressive attacking last year though I thought it was the strongest part of their team last year the way they won the ball Graven Burch, the emergence of him McAllister dominating I thought it was an area where I thought last season that was one of their strongest parts of their team if not the strongest but now Wurz is in there so it isn't the three box to box you've got a genuine number 10 that is going to cheat a little bit so I think that's the issue for them is that they've got a team now that's maybe far too playmaker centric and not enough graft centric and for that reason they're getting caught out and found out just a little bit I think balance in their team is the issue that's the key thing finding the right balance they've gone from having three midfielders Sabozlai Graven Birch and McAllister are all good grafters all get around the pitch all can cover for other people and make big sacrifices in their own game for other players in their team especially in wide areas at times.

20:03Whereas, like you say, with Virk's coming in now, he ain't scoring. He ain't really assisting. He's not really impacting the games. He's working his nuts off, but he ain't having the impact that they probably anticipated. And like you said, with all the attacking players on the show, they're starting to get picked out. But I think they're right-hand side of their defence. They're like the right-back area. You've got Sabozlai filling there at times. He's not a natural right-back. You've got Canate, who looks a little bit in and out of form at the moment. I think that'd be an area that I'd be looking and I'd say, listen, Mason Mount or Cunha, I'd be happy with going in there.

20:33I wouldn't be happy with our midfield in this, though. I would want to do something with Bruno. I wouldn't want him as part of the two in this game because you'd get clarted in there. Clarted. But you know what? I was watching Match of the Day, Rio, yeah? Match of the Day? Yeah, I was. It's a new program that they only started this weekend when United won. Yeah. Rooney was there with Shearer and I like the analysis bits. I like to listen to that Danny Murphy and see who's doing well on that side of things. And I saw that Rooney had a set of highlights that was talking about Salah and how much he's allowed to cheat.

21:11But the problem is, of course, you can do that when you're Mohamed Salah. But again, like you said, when it's a bit weak on the right-hand side, there's a deficit. And especially because Gap Poe on the left-hand side isn't as strong off the ball. You know, you've then got an issue. Do you reckon they're going to get this right for the Manchester United game or do you reckon they're still going to carry on with how they've been doing in the last four or five games? Well, I think this break's come at a good time for them because the manager of Sluck's got a bit of time to sit and think about it and work this thing out.

21:43We'll be probably on the board on an iPad rather than on the training pitch because everyone's around in national duty. But I would have liked us to have bounced into this game like midweek or the following weekend just so they ain't got that time because it would surprise me if he sorts it out. I think he's a good analysis of games. He analyzes games really well. He showed that a few times. He came on and dissected Man Utd's game, I think in week two or three when he signed. And I was like, whoa, he's actually seen that he's been quite clinical with the way he's approached it. So it wouldn't surprise me if he turns it around and gets things right after this break.

22:18Right, man, we've got loads still to come on this pod, but we'll be back shortly after this.

22:2733 days,

22:55So, We've got a message here from Blue Victory. The question is, Rio, who is the better midfielder at the moment between Declan Rice and Moises Caicedo? Ooh. Ooh. Do you know what? It just, it swings around about it, doesn't it? I think they have a lot of similarities in their game. I think Declan, if you let him off his leash, he'll probably give you more going forward. But Caicedo, defensively, I think he smells danger quicker and better. I think that's more in his make-up. I don't think there's much between them, I've got to be honest with you. I'd be happy having either one of them. I said both of them, when they were on the market to be sold, I was screaming for Man United to buy them because I saw the value in Casado.

23:43I think Casado would have been magnificent for Manchester United, given time, and I think Declan would have been a ridiculous signing as well. So I think you're splitting hairs with them too, I've got to be honest. Yeah, I'll be honest with you. even as an Arsenal fan. Kasedo, man, he's on another level, bro. I think it depends what position you're going to play him in. If you're going to play a holding midfielder, I'd probably say Kasedo, right? But if you're going to say he's a number eight, I would say Declan. You see that goal he scored on the weekend, though? Yeah, but you let Declan go, he scores more goals than Kasedo all day long.

24:22Maybe, maybe. And he creates more, I reckon. I think you're right I think one of them's an eight and one of them's a six I think they'd be ridiculous together together yeah it'd be a nightmare nightmare to play against together I think Casado's probably the better passer but I think Rice gives you a couple of other things Rice can travel with a ball he can break the lines with the ball running with it what about when you look at the likes of Rodri, Vettinho, Gravenberch Rice, McAllister Relax, relax, relax, relax. I think it's a fair question. Where would you stack them up when it comes to that, to those others?

25:01There's Rodri stood on his own in an empty room, wondering where all his mates are, and then there's everybody else on a different bus. Yeah. Vitina's at that door, though.

25:14Vitina's a player. It's just different, though. It depends what you want. If you want to play through someone consistently from anywhere in the park, from your own third, from your goalkeeper, all the way through to the edge of the opponent's box, Vettina's your man, above all of them. But if you want someone who's just an absolute controller, sniffs danger, is a conductor, is the person you look to in every moment for that authority in a football match, Rodri's that guy. What about Gravenberch? A couple of weeks ago, they were saying he was the best. New contract at Liverpool. The highlights were crazy.

25:49Seeing him flicking the ball over everyone's head. Where do you put him in this group of players? No, he's not nowhere near with Rodri and Vettinha for me yet. He can't come in that conversation. I've spoken about Govenberg since he was at Ajax. When I watched him in the Champions League and I was mesmerised, like, oh, this kid's going to be nuts. He went to Bayern, things didn't work out. He comes to Liverpool and you're now seeing the potential starting to mature. I think he's got the assets he has with taking the ball under pressure, beating the press with the ball, driving with it. Defensively, he's improving all the time.

26:26I think he's got a wonderful career ahead of him. I just think he needs that more game time, a bit more consistency as well. So it'll be in that conversation, I'm sure. But I'll probably hold off a little bit now. Right, over the weekend, Jamie Carragher posed a question and it reeks of just recency bias for me. Jamie Carragher asked the question, is Erling Haaland the best goal scorer that the Premier League has ever seen? Rio. I think he's in the conversation to be the best goal scorer we've ever seen because of the sheer velocity of numbers and speed of which he's getting to these numbers. It's crazy, really.

27:10Now, if you're asking who's the best number nine we've seen as a player, I don't think he's in that conversation because his all-round game isn't nowhere near as good as someone like Harry Kane's. His all-round game isn't anywhere near as someone like even Ruud van Nistelrooy, Thierry Henry, Wayne Rooney, like Suarez, Torres in his pom - In terms of a footballer, I don't think he's on the same wavelength as those guys. But as a goal scorer, he sits shoulder to shoulder with any of those guys, I think, because he's just... the way he scores goals, he can score tappings, he can score headers, he can score acrobatic goals and even more worryingly he can score running and carrying a centre half on his shoulders like he showed at the weekend if you want to fight him he goes, thank you very much, roll the sleeves up and let's have it and you can see the excitement in his interview after the game that the defender wanted to push and shove him early on in the game and it kind of woke him up and said yeah come on, I'm ready to go and that's how the goal came about and the defender started a fight, he couldn't finish and so he's got more than one way to score a goal which is I think another great asset that he has and I just to reiterate the point as a goal scorer he's 100 % in the conversation as one of the best that we've seen in this league but it's a player's name that never gets brought up in this Rude Van Nistelrooy gets brought up Alan Shearer gets brought up all those players names get brought up Aguero's gets brought up frequently Andy Cole never gets talked about in these he is the second fastest to 50 only erling harland beat him and that was erling harland who joined um manchester city at their pump you know andy cole i'm pretty sure went to like a newly promoted newcastle and did it there and and then went to united like why does he not get spoke about when it comes to the greatest strikers that the premier league has ever seen because he's got the trophy cabinet that few can even look at.

29:08Yeah, even I made the mistake there. He's 100 % in that conversation as well, and I didn't name him. So I'm guilty of that as well. I don't know why that is. Is it because of PR? I think so. I think so. Doing campaigns while he was playing a bit more and being at the forefront of a Nike or Reebok, whoever he was signed to. I don't know. I don't know what it is. He had a reputation in the media, so they painted a different stick picture of him to the one that I knew anyway. I don't know. I think there's a lot of contributing factors to that, but he's definitely one of those who would be in that conversation.

29:41Glenn Huddle's comment, wasn't it? That he took five chances to score a goal. Maybe that as well. It's like subconsciously people think about that. Listen, I think what contributes to it as well is the defenders. I thought the defender in the game, you want to pick a fight with someone, you've got to at least give it a go. He got shrugged off, but then his defensive partner isn't smelling danger. His defensive partner should have been straight across, sweeping up, looking after your partner. Again, it goes back to my comment and what Gary Neville said at the weekend about remembering what I used to say to him before a game.

30:11Nothing down our side. It's like, that means you sort yourself out, but you make a mistake on there. Nothing down our side. Not your side, our side. This is me and you. You see, when you're talking about Haaland, is he too big and too strong for most Premier League defenders to cope with, you reckon? I just don't think that they know how to cope with that player anymore. They're not used to dealing with that type of player anymore, where there's contact, where there's someone who wants to be aggressive and run against you or run through you. You've got to remember that in our time, I'm training against John Hartson every day.

30:43He wants to actually eat you, let alone run through you. He wants to eat you for his lunch. Do you know what I mean? You've got like, you've got the likes of bloody, who else do I want to talk with? Emil Heskey. Do you know what I mean? Ricardo Fuller, Paolo Wanchop, Freddy Canute. Like, let alone, or even the ones that we know about that are the top, top, top players. Shearer. Yeah, these people want to run over you. They're not running around you and dancing. They want to run through you and over you. So there was many more of these players for you to combat, for you to actually have an understanding of how to play against them.

31:18Everett Goodison, Duncan Ferguson, and Kevin Campbell. They're not running around you. They're running over you and through you. So you've got to work out. So these players, they may not come against a player like that until they play Haaland next time during the season. He's willing to just get hold of him and throw him about. So no wonder a lot of the defenders don't look ready to deal with this type of player. They're not seeing him enough. That's why. How did you defend against Mark Viduka in training? Mark Viduka? Oh, my God. Stay away from him. That's it. Stay away. Arms length. Keep him at arm.

31:52The moment he got hold of you, he was too big, too strong, and too cute upstairs because he had a trick as well. He just holds you. No, he'd just hold you and roll you. He was so big and so strong. He had great feet. What a player. But there were so many players like that who could do that. Do you know what I mean? You get too tight to Kevin Davis and he was rolling you and putting someone in. Do you know what I mean? It was just like these players I could just wheel off name after name. But the game was more physical then. So you had to combat that type of player far more often than you do now.

32:23Do you think that's why it was more competitive? because the physicality could level the top players down to more of a scrappy game. Yeah, 100%. There's no doubt in my mind that Sam Allardyce would have been telling Kevin Davis, when the ball is being played into, all you've got to do is just pin one of the centre-backs, hold him. Don't let him move. And hopefully the ball just runs through and someone else runs on it. You don't even want to touch the ball, Kevin. That ain't a conversation the manager's having now of any players, I'm telling you. Everything's about control, getting the ball structure, getting us into good areas.

32:59It's a different conversation back then, but that's just because the game's changed. Speaking about strikers, hopefully now people can start seeing the quality of Victor Giochoresh. How do you reckon he's settling in so far at Arsenal, Rio? Yeah, I think he's doing right. You're top of the league. Everything's rosy when you're top of the league, so people don't get questioned as much. Do you know what I mean? When Liverpool were top of the league and hadn't lost a game, was anyone questioning Liverpool? Lost a couple of games now. They're on their knees, everyone's saying. And they might be out of the title race, everyone's saying.

33:29It's mad. So, yeah, he's doing all right. He ain't pulling up no trees or creating no magic. But he's in a team that's top of the league and I'm sure he's happy. Steve, I haven't heard your thoughts on Victor yet, if I'm honest. And you're there smirking away. What are you saying when it comes to my number nine, man? Yeah, it's cool. Listen, I've got to start for you. I've got to start for you. Optus T Coming in hot Right Tony Pulis Scored 29 21.9 % Of his goals I saw this From Corners Sean Dyche Scored 18.6 Of his goals From corners Mikel Arteta's next He's third On that list Of the highest Percentage Of goals Scored from corners with 16.7 % of Arsenal goals under him have come from corners.

34:30When I said you lot were stoke, Christ was I accurate. Steve, can I just ask a question though? Why is that seen as a detrimental stat? Do you know what? It's not because I think winning is the biggest stat and to be fair to them, they are top of the league and I'll give them their credit for 0.1 of a second. There you go, that's your credit. But the thing is, this is the Arsenal fan base, as it always is, right? The Arsenal would... When they were going head-to-head against Manchester City, they were going up against the evil empire. We should have been all aboard the Arsenal fan base. But because of sausages like Joel and the rest of their fan base, we are unable, incapable of giving them any sort of credit because before you know it, they've got fake cigars and sunglasses and mini Premier League trophies.

35:19And you know the drill, right? And the thing is, that's not just Joel. He's just a representative of that entire fan base, right? So when you see stats like that, you can't just go, hey, do you know what? This is what it is. It's because that fan base in particular, under various different managers, wanked themselves into oblivion about the beautiful football that they were supposedly playing for years and years and years. and they look down on other teams because they didn't have beautiful football being played on them. That's a good point. And that is why, when they've got this little Lego-headed freak that they've got in charge of their team right now, they have to be brought up on the charges of hypocrisy.

36:09Joe, how does it feel to be called a Cumberland? A Cumberland sausage? A Lincolnshire? What's going on? A Frank-Burter? Walls. You know what? I don't really care, man. When you're top of the league and life is pretty, I'm just here to commend my team. And I want to stick it to Arsenal, actually, Ria. I want to stick with Arsenal. Player depth, squad depth, Martin Odegaard. He became the first player to be subbed in three consecutive first halves, but no concerns from Arteta, of course. What would you say when you're seeing him get taken off like that? Is there an issue now with the number 10 situation with him and Eze?

36:47Is it a good problem to have? Or what's your thoughts on it? I think Michael Arteta are sitting there saying, thank God we went and got Eze. Because he wouldn't, I don't think he's a type who would have put in Nwari or Adalman into that position, which I think they could have gone in and done something. But I'm sitting there thinking, thank God the ball backed me and now I've got a ready-made replacement in Eze. I think he could play both of them at times. But I think it's a great problem to have. You guys have got probably the best depth in the league right now. all positions you've got really good cover and I think when all your squads fit I think it's an intimidating squad that you're coming up against now and I think they've got robust players they've got players that kind of you look at and go could hurt us from different areas so I think it's a good time to be an Arsenal fan I think you guys you've just got to finish to fight the jigsaw off you've got to finish it off this time you can't go this season without having arguably the best squad in the league and still not get the job done because you lot will be in for it no for sure I mean as you saw on the weekend oh whatever Steve as you saw on the weekend even when Odegaard came off it enabled Rice to push forward Zubimendi took the deeper role obviously Rice was also able to score do you think his game's being compromised though no I think Declan can do it all he can play a holding role and he can play an attacking role I think it's what the game needs if he can start as a holding midfielder control the game I think he's happy doing that but if the game needs him to push forward and be that driving force that we know he can be.

38:20I think he's happy, equally happy to do that as well. I think too many people looking for narratives to surround Arsenal with and I think Declan Rice isn't the type, I don't think, to start throwing his toys out of the pram. I think he's one of those, if the team's winning and doing well, he'll play anywhere. Can we just talk about England? England, Thomas Tuchel's squad, the latest England squad. Can I just run through it, please? Who would have thought post-World Cup, or post-Euro, sorry, that we would have been sitting there and going, there's no Jude Benenham, there's no Foden, there's no Grealish when they're fit.

38:55You just think that as years gone by, players like Jude Benenham, who are like superstars within the team, as soon as they're fit, they're in. They're in the squad. Foden, another one. Would you ever imagine that he says he's hands up and he's fit, that he doesn't get in the squad? You wouldn't have thought that at all. I think it's a sly message, man. And it basically says no one's going to be picked off simply their name. No one's going to be picked just because you're a good squad player. If you're not getting a minute, don't matter who you are, you're not playing. That don't make sense. Because James Trafford's in the squad.

39:31Lewis Skelly's in the squad. What's his selection criteria then? But then saying that though, he did also say that there was good team harmony in the last squad. And he wants to keep it because bearing in mind, the last squad selection was only three weeks ago? I don't know. I'll be sitting there. Jude Benham must be pissed, 100%. Jack Grealish has got to be sitting there. I've been asked to go out on loan and go and get more football time and then improve the way I'm playing. Or go and put some stats on the board. He's done both. He's scoring goals, he's assisting goals, he's influencing games.

40:08He's as near back to being Jack Grealish as we've ever seen him for the last three or four years. like he's probably sitting there going well what have I got to do to get in and around in a squad Foden's influencing games again like you look at it and it's like is it more than just football here like you say but then you got to look at Elliot Anderson was probably the best player at the last camp do you know what I mean so he's going to stay in Jordan Henderson the manager loves him because he's more than just a footballer for the squad Declan's in already Ruben Loftus-Cheek is the one you look at it and you go okay if you do all them guys going okay how's Ruben getting in front of me but it's I don't know the manager's got his reasons and I think the nearer we get to the World Cup the clearer the picture becomes and I'm telling you one thing if Foden and or Benham isn't in that squad to go and fly to the World Cup there is going to be some news flying about and some talk shows like cars, podcasts like cars going crazy.

41:10No United player, Rio. I didn't want to get there. I didn't want to go to that. But yeah, I saw that. Oh my gosh. Wow. That is crazy. That's where you are. You guys have had the highest proportion of players that represented for England. I remember when moving to Man United was a guaranteed England call-up. Remember? We also used to win trophies and leagues, Joel. Things changed. But you've got to think, like, Mason Mount has just started rounding into a little bit of form. Yeah. And did he play under Tuchel at Chelsea? Tuchel, yeah. He played for Tuchel when they won the Champions League. He played.

41:49So you would have thought that was a curly finger if there ever was one. Who else would you expect? Luke Shaw? No. Harry Maguire? No. Komi Menu can't get a start, so it would have been weird if he'd got a call-up. And then that's basically it. Guys, can we just talk about Jaguilic, please? I'd like a public apology from both of you. Wait, why? Because you guys went on like he was meant to be on the scrap heap and he was done. He doesn't deserve a chance. He's been terrible. He's been this and that. I'm sitting there backing him. Listen, no. I'm sitting there saying you've got to back him and I think he's going to go now.

42:25He's got to be trusted. He's got to be allowed off the leash, right? And he's gone to Everton, a team not renowned for any attacking kind of like prowess, and he's gone and started turning it on there. Assists and goals. Winning games. Talk to me, guys. He's just gone and played well for David Morris and he's just mad because you couldn't.

42:48You've got one part of that, right? Look, yeah. Jack's issue was that he went as a£100 million player to Manchester City. He won loads. He went out loads. He wasn't really putting the numbers up to justify that transfer and it was a mistake to go. He should have come to United. that's the top and bottom of it it would have been absolutely perfect for Manchester United it would have won nothing it would have won nothing I think we still won in that time we won a league cup or something right what more do you want you won a treble mate you think you're going to come and take a league cup for a treble don't be silly well he's left and gone Everton now hasn't he so but he's playing and he's happy he is and you know what he's playing well fair play to him no well done Steve I owe him a proper apology because I actually thought he's He's kind of finished.

43:38That's one section. But the other section was, I just felt like the media didn't really highlight it as much as they did. Like Marcus Rashford or anyone else not playing well. So that's a separate thing. But when it comes to him playing, this is, I'm so impressed. And the fact that he hasn't got the call to the squad, for me, that's the most unexpected thing that I've seen. And yeah, no, kudos to him, man. Hopefully he carries on playing well. Look, certain players get ripped apart by the media and certain players get protected by the media. What I've seen this weekend is mental, right? I think Florian Wirtz is a sensational player.

44:17Me and Anton did a video about him three years ago, said he's going to be the future of German football. Do you remember it? For the secret scout, right? And I said Pep should just go and sign him because he is the heir to Kevin De Bruyne's throne. Liverpool sign him for 116 million. now I haven't seen any I've seen social media criticism of him I haven't seen any media criticism of him considering Sky Sports did the 007 graphic for Jadon Sancho when he went 7 games without a goal or an assist all I'm seeing is apologies and people going is the criticism of justified what criticism now I'm not saying he's a bad player but where's the all I'm seeing is journalists and media outlets coming and defending him saying he needs time, he needs patience he needs this, he needs the other Paul Pogba's sitting there laughing his bollocks off, looking at how this is all going off I was sitting with Paul Pogba the other day we were in Cannes together, we had a night out together, it's good, just chilling we were talking about this type of stuff as well, like why do certain players get picked on and just that you're going to be the guy now that everyone aims all their bullets at and I just think it's a personal thing, if someone likes to look at someone, they're alright with them and they'll give them a bit of grace and a bit of time.

45:34If they don't like certain things about them, like, i.e., if you've got a flashy haircut, or if you wear a bit too much jewellery, do you know what I mean? Or if you walk in a certain way with a certain swagger, then it rubs someone up the wrong way and they go, do you know what, this ain't a bit of me, and I'm just going to be reflected in the way I report them. I think it's just really down to that. You know, when you look at the England team, Rio, right? Can you envisage a tournament without Jude Bellingham Jack Grealish or Phil Foden? I can see Jack Grealish not going just because of the way things have gone for him in an England shirt.

46:08And I think that if he's in the form he's in now, I think it'll be a travesty come selection time. But I can't see England going to a tournament without Jude Benham and Phil Foden. I just don't see that as an option, me. I just think you've got a player that plays for Real Madrid, arguably one of the biggest clubs in the world, if not the biggest, hugely impact that team when they went on to win the Champions League and then you're not going to let him go and play for England. It just doesn't make sense for me. He's not going to travel. Yeah, but he's been injured. He's been out for ages. He's only just coming back.

46:45He's not starting. But that's now why he's not probably in the England squad I think now. People are trying to write it up as something different. You asked me the question, do I think England go to a World Cup without Ju Benham? I don't see that. Do you reckon the little words of wars that was with him and Tuchel has anything to do with it? Well, that will be played out when we see this. If he's playing for Real Madrid and playing well, if he doesn't go, then it's obviously it's the fallout from that situation that happened when the manager spoke about his mum having some words about Jude Benadon.

47:20That's what he'll be. If he goes, he's playing and he goes, then obviously that's been put to bed. But I think time will tell us. Yeah. It's an interesting one, that one, because there's some players... I can understand that he's trying to do it without... He's trying to pick players based on the minutes, but it's Jude Bellingham at the same time as well, man. Jude Bellingham... I don't care what happens. Jude Bellingham has to go to the tournament with England. I don't care what anyone says. I don't care. It's just... If there's going to be someone that's going to step up in the hottest and biggest moment, the most pressurised moment outside of Harry Kane for England, Jude Bellen is going to be that guy.

48:00Yeah, or Bacayo. But I hear what you're saying, Rio. Listen, I want to say thank you very much for everybody watching, including Steve's funny face at the moment. Guys, we have loads of videos coming out. Before we go, I've just got to let you know, man, we've got another Rio meets coming up this week, and this one's an absolute belter. Even Steve's going to love it. It's going to be difficult when he sees the name. I know who it is, and I'm not going to love it. You're going to love it. I'm right, aren't I? I'm right. Yeah. Yeah. Who is it? But listen, man, it's another ep where you get to see a different side to this character, to this person that we've all probably got an idea of what he's like but I'm telling you I even come out of the interview thinking you know what?

48:43If I was a chairman of a club and he'd spoke like that, trying to get a job at my club, I think he's getting it. The way he spoke, the passion, the authority. Yeah, and I think the fans of his club are going to absolutely love it. I've got to be honest. Steven Gerrard, guys. Ladies and gentlemen, Steven Gerrard. Oh my gosh. Yeah. The GOAT. Wow. Serious. He's, yeah, the interviews, if I must say so myself, I think he provided a great interview. What's your relationship like with him now that you're not playing anymore? I know, you know, you hang around and stuff like that, but are you still slightly competitive?

49:21Like, if you're both going for like, I don't know, a sandwich or something. I don't want to talk about it too much because we touch on this in the actual interview. Okay. But it's probably a little bit like with a lot of the players that I played with who were rivals over Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal. Your relationship, once you retire, that competitive edge and energy and that nastiness kind of goes and leaves you. And it then filters out into being respect 99 % of the time. And that's very much the case with Stephen. But we touch on this in the interview. It's good, man. But before we go, obviously we're just talking about England Steven Gerrard goes on to talk about England and he drops a few bombs in there as well by the way, just so you know Guys, thank you very much man for watching Rio Ferdinand Presents myself, Joel Baer, Steven Housen and Rio Ferdinand, they're both happy, they finally got back to back home wins, it's been coming guys, join us next week, we're here every week on Monday 5pm, you know what time it is, see you soon, peace

50:40I'll see you next time.

50:53of the World Cup. If you want soccer analysis from a podcast that's been overanalyzing the game for more than 20 years, then this is it. Join me, Max Rushton, and our expert team of soccer journalists every day of the tournament. Can England end 60 years of hurt or will this be another year of falling just short? Probably. World Cup Daily, listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch full episodes on YouTube.