Hugo Lloris: After losing to Messi - It’s Mbappe’s DESTINY to win this World Cup

0:0033 days, 33 episodes, no off switch. From the goals and the glory to the politics and the problems of the World Cup, if you want soccer analysis from a podcast that's been over-analyzing the game for more than 20 years, then this is it. Join me, Max Rushton, and our expert team of soccer journalists every day of the tournament. Can England end 60 years of hurt, or will this be another year of falling just short? Probably. World Cup Daily, listen wherever you get your podcasts, or watch full episodes on YouTube. Argentina win but Mbappe scores a hat-trick. At that point when that happened, did you automatically think Mbappe will be back?

0:38Yes. I have no doubt about that. I believe it's his destiny. You know, there's not many players like him in the football history that you really think they are special. The World Cup is the best competition to play and the world, the entire world, stop. And it's the moment, it's your moment to perform. And this type of player, they're just ready for that. Welcome to Rio Meats. I'm out here in LA, thanks to Airbnb. And for our final guest of the series, we've pulled out all the stops. Just look at this view, look at that.

1:23Hey my man how are you? You good? Good to see you. You look amazing. How are you doing? Enjoy your life here? Yeah I do. Yeah. I do. I've been here for like three weeks obviously for the World Cup. It's been amazing. I've never been here before. The weather as well. Is your first time? Just staying. I've been with the team. So it's been three weeks now? Yeah. Yeah. yeah it's just like temperatures on yeah change change the mood yeah definitely so you're good yes just finished training uh yeah family is in france right now okay uh enjoying the family and friends which is nice and i do the another pre-season what number is this 23rd.

2:10Wow. 27 years? 23 years, yeah. Now, professional. With the goalkeepers, you can go longer. It's easy for you guys. Yeah, but now it's more the time to assess the body, also the mental. Year after year, we see. But it's a really good place now to finish. Amazing, amazing place. We've had a great time. and obviously Airbnb looked hard for us here with this place that we have. But you know what, obviously being in LA, the World Cup's here and I'm really fascinated to kind of speak to you about your experience of winning it. Like Russia, 2018, captain, you're the leader in the dressing room and then you lift the trophy.

2:54What is that like? I think a lot of pride, especially because you lift the trophy in front of your family, in front of your friends who travel for this final. I always felt that this leadership has to be shared, you know, inside the changing room. So it's not only the success of one man, it's the success of a team. Obviously, there's leaders in that team. There's four, five, six players that have this leadership and transmit this leadership to the group. Who were those guys in that dressing room? Raphael Varane, Blaise Mathudy, paul pogba that was olivier giroux antoine griezmann and good guys so we are we are the really strong group of players we also had some different experiences all together through the world cup 2014 and then the euro 2016 at home this one really hurt you know because we lost this final in extra time.

4:00So I think we built this momentum and I think we were ready not only to compete, but we were ready to go all the way and we managed quite well to do it. Just on that leadership group, we got a friend of the show, Paul Pogba, he's been on before. Obviously, he's one of the leaders in your dressing room. What was the environment like with him in it and what was created to make him thrive in that environment? Because I think Paul needed the environment to be the real Paul Pogba and he seemed to have that with france yes so i think it's really important when you go inside a changing room that you face and you see people as natural as they are you know you you don't want any restriction you don't want any you don't want people to hide you and paul really need this environment you know he needs to feel alive and and he needs to feel the freedom to say what he wants and and um and And you know how it is like in a changing room, there's different personalities, different characters, different culture as well.

5:01And and and I always try to adapt, you know, and to get the best out of ourselves, you know. And so that's why communication is important and and the respect, respect. At the end of the day, we all want to go in the same direction and and you cannot work with our respect. But Paul is like a sunshine in a changing room, you know. He's always in a good mood, always with the positive vibe. And I think Gideon Deschamps really got the best out of him, you know, on and off the field. One of the things of speaking to yourself and other people that played with him for France, it felt like people, the Federation, the teammates were more accepting of his personality, of how he could be sometimes a bit loud or just being Paul, which was a great character.

5:58Whereas somewhere like United, maybe they would look at him and to compare the way you saw him would be, oh, he doesn't take football serious, maybe because he's always smiling. But I know Paul is serious about football. It's just he transmits it differently to everybody else. No, he's a great professional guy. You know, he doesn't joke with his work, you know, he knows how important he is. I know he had a few problems, few injuries and also outside football, some family issues, but after so many years off the field, it's really hard to get your body fit and ready to play again, you know, three games per week.

6:43And so I think, I really hope for him, you know, he gets back on track and I really want to see him, you know, performing in the French League at Monaco. But also it's the, I mean, like we say, in 23 years in the professional football, I had to adapt to different generations. and I had to adapt also to a new system where social media now is really part of our life. Some players, they have a team around them because they need to promote the image, the brand, and I get that. And I don't want to be the old grumpy guy. I understand that. but some of my generation like Paul understood that really early and at the beginning people didn't really accept that but now it's part of a routine What generation did you prefer to be around?

7:54This generation or the generation where you started? Or you're in the middle? I'm in the middle so I think I can understand the way it works and I think the football is evolving and you need to adapt always to the evolution on and off the field now and the demand of the game as well has changed um but um i i really like the old days you know because uh i'm the kind of guy or really like you know what is happening inside the changing room or what is happening inside the building in the club stay inside you know i don't like to share For me it's private. But I get that now you need to open the door and to show a little bit the inside of the football and I deal okay with that.

8:50Another guy who must have adapted is Didier Deschamps, who is the only other French player to lift the World Cup trophy as captain. Did he have any words for you in this moment when you were going to lift the trophy? Yes. Before I went to the stage and received the World Cup, he told me something. I didn't get it when he told me, but I understood afterwards. He said to me, take your time before lifting the trophy.

9:23It's a really special moment and it goes so fast. you don't even have time to appreciate the moment but and a lot of things is going inside your head all the i would say all the work that you you've done all the the experience you went through yeah all the journey you know to arrive at this at this moment um and everything you know it's a lot of emotion, obviously. How important is somebody like Didier Deschamps's career when he's trying to help you get to the final to win the trophy in terms of respect, understanding what you guys are going through at the time? I think we have to give a lot of credit to him.

10:11When he came, so that was the Laurent Blanc spell for two years. It was the beginning of the the rebut of the national team. We found ourselves in a crisis in 2010 at the South Africa World Cup. And it's almost like we had to start from the bottom. And so slowly, progressively, step by step, we get to the level where the French national team should be. And we have to deal with a lot of things, you know, on and off the field. And the best person that you could find at that time was Didier Deschamps because he knows exactly what represents the French national team jersey. And we reconnected a relation with our fans as well.

11:14and slowly, you know, we went to the World Cup 2014, the hero, etc. And also, it was not only about going back to the standard of the national team. It was to maintain this level. And he's done it so well. When you look today, they are still in a race to go for another World Cup. And that's the best that I wish for them. It's crazy. Euterion Rhee said that his generation's failures in 1990 and 1994 helped the team to achieve greatness and using the negative experience. Was that similar for you guys? When you mentioned about what was the feeling about lifting the trophy, I was one of the only guys who were part of this team at the World Cup in South Africa.

12:12So some players, they just arrived and after one or two years, they are World Cup winners. Lucky guys, lucky. But there was some bad work to do before to arrive at this level. Yes, I think the final of the Euro is the best example. We were so close to win that game. But it's part of the football. It was probably part of the process. Maybe if we didn't have this feeling, if we didn't face this challenge, probably, I don't know, who knows what will happen in Russia. I think it's, you know it better than me, you have to face different situations, different experiences to reach the point. you know and then when you reach the point you have to do everything to maintain uh and and and to keep the standards i always felt that when you when you lost and you had those those bad days and bad times in the big moments when you won it tasted better yeah because of those experiences yes you know yes so i always and i feel that you can sense that maybe with this team now the french team the experience of losing in the final argentina is maybe one of the drivers in focusing them so much for this tournament.

13:32No, you're right. When I see Kilian, for example, of course, he won the 2018 World Cup, but when you score three goals in a World Cup final and you don't win it, I mean, there's two ways. One is to, and it's the easiest, you just accept and move on and and give up, no? But it's not the case for him. He's just a winner and he wants to prove, first of all, to himself that he's capable to do it again. Talking of Kylian Mbappé, how quickly, when you saw him in his first training camp, did you think, oh, this is different, this is special? First training session, yes. First one? Yes, first one. I think, and at that time, there was the Monaco team.

14:20They had a lot of young and talented players. There was Thomas Lemar, there was Benjamin Mendy, but for France we had three, four players who came and they were part of the World Cup. It was the first call for them. And Kilian was one of them. And now since the first training session, you can really feel that he was special. Everything that he does is faster than anyone else. So it's, yeah, it was really impressive. But even though you never know, you can't predict, you never know because in football, it's not only about talent. It's also how far you want to go. It's your personal ambition. Where do you want to put the limit now?

15:24But Kylian has no limit. It's just... It is crazy though, when you see a young player like this. I mean, Rooney was one of these guys for me, or Cristiano Ronaldo, but they come in a changing room, they train and you all look at each other. The senior guys are going, what is this? Yeah. Wow. And a lot of it is you can see the potential, but like you say, mentally, can they continue this for a long time? Yes. But there was no fear in his eyes. There was fears in the opponent half. The opponent squad or team. And at that time, he played on the right wing, where you only uses speed you know and there is a for sure you remember there is this uh this clip about him against argentina in the round of 16 years this run this is scary i think this is the probably the the image that showed to the world uh who is kilian mbappe yeah when i saw that i was like who is this kid because we we saw some stuff in monaco but on this level it was like no this is not normal yeah and obviously what he went on to do um it's even after that game did you know again at that time that that that moment was going to be a big moment for you guys with him yeah um especially because uh when we when we beat argentina at this stage of the competition it was the key moment we started to believe.

17:02Like, we can make it. And we're going to make it. And then we face Uruguay and Belgium and Croatia in the final. But I don't know, because it was probably Argentina with Leo Messi. But also the story of the game, it was a bit crazy. We finished, we ended up 4-3, I think. But we could feel the team really strong and ready to win at any cost. But for Kilian, we knew that we had this weapon. But we play in a different way than you can see today. Today, they are really high on the field. They become more in possession style and they recover the ball much higher than we used to do. We used to be in the low block and playing in transition.

17:55Right now, France is a dominant team in all the aspects of the game. And it's a bit scary. It's really nice. We enjoy it to watch.

18:09Do they play different because Mbappe has developed a certain way that they have to build around him? And because his development has gone different, that maybe the team has to be shaped different? Maybe, yes. Also, the evolution of the game. When you look at the starting XI, you have players playing under Vincent Compagny. You have players playing under Luis Enrique. Kylian can adapt to any system. But this style of play now, with high pressure, with this willingness to be proactive and dominant,

18:55I think it's more related to the player's mentality right now. And the coach, obviously, is giving his instruction, but also he adapts to the profile of player he's got right now in the squad, and it's working perfectly. It's working perfectly. He doesn't have only one idea of football. He's open, you know, and he adapts the style of plays with the players he's got in the training room. Just take me to the training ground with these type of players like Kylian Mbappe. What's it like for you as the goalkeeper when you're doing shooting drills and stuff like this? What are you looking at? What are you seeing when he's approaching the ball?

19:42Because we talk a lot about football, but it's normally the outfield players. I think he improved a lot on this aspect of his game. He's finishing right now, he's top level, he's elite. And I can see and I can feel that there is a lot of work behind that. The speed is natural, dribbling is natural, but finishing demands a lot of work. But when I see today,

20:14He scored one goal against Sweden just before half-time. They played a corner really quickly and he was on the left side. He was in 1v1 and he was just dribbling the guy and kicking the ball really fast. The time between the last touch and his shot was so quick. And this is something that you cannot teach to him. It's natural. Does that kill goalkeepers? The touch to set yourself and then the shot? The quick speed of that? Because then if you add even the precision, it's impossible to save. Even if you... Because sometimes when the player is shifting a little bit on his right, the goalkeeper is probably adapting the position.

21:05So maybe doing one step, but the time you do the step, the ball is already gone. So it's hard to defend. Would he be asking you any questions about goalkeeping to try and get an insight into how a goalkeeper thinks? No, not really. Because also we didn't share

21:26all days, you know. When you go to national team, everything goes really fast. It was more the case with Harry, for example, Harry Kane at Spurs, where we love to talk about feelings of the striker or the goalkeepers. And for sure, yes, he can help. I'll get to Harry in a little while. But Mbappe, what's his greatest attribute, would you say? He's a killer. Yeah, in the box, he's a killer. If you give him space, you're in trouble. The only way... Yeah. He will always find a way to position himself to score. But when you look at the players around him right now, it's, like I said, it's scary. I think they found a great connection with Olysee, who is really nice to watch.

22:24It's the kind of player that gives you emotion. and the way he positioned himself, the way he's dribbling, the way he's passing, assisting. It's... Wow. I mean, see, I'm really impressed. I've never played with him. I played against. He was still a young player at Crystal Palace, but... And even at that time, I could feel something special in him, but I didn't even know that he could play for the French national team. So, yeah. That's crazy because I think about 2022, to go back to your point of having bad moments. Like the greatest World Cup final we've ever seen. Argentina win but Mbappe scores a hat-trick.

23:05At that point when that happened did you automatically think Mbappe will be back? Yes. Oh, I have no doubt about that. For me, I knew not. That's not the case.

23:21But yes. And he will be back in four years' time. I believe it's his destiny. You know, there's not many players like him in the football history. Like, you really think they are special, no? And then, and also, he really give rendezvous to the world for those occasions. you know, the World Cup is the best competition to play and the world, the entire world, stop just the time of the competition and it's the moment, it's your moment to perform now and and this type of player they're just ready for that. With that, what was your plan for Messi? There was a specific request from an instruction from Didier Deschamps to N 'Golo Kante.

24:22N 'Golo Kante always had to stay in the perimeter of Leo Messi. So try to affect his game now, even if it's really hard. But N 'Golo at that time, you know, he could run a lot and he can do whatever you want. and he's a team player so he did really well. But even though he still managed to put us in trouble. But against a lower block, really aggressive, we still managed to defend well. But then if you give him just a little space, he will find the pass or he will find the way to go and to dribble. And so it's... No, it's too hard to play against him. Talking to the strikers, who are the strikers that you had the most problems with, with the way that they would shoot?

25:26It's not number nine. It's more about wingers or number 10 because, you know, Of course, this type of players sometimes is really difficult to read. They are in a position to shoot, but they pass the ball. Leo Messi is one of them. And I would say a striker is more obvious. Like when he's in the box, usually it's his job. So you can read probably better. Cristiano, Leo, of course, they are above the others. But players like Suarez, like Kun Agüero, Jamie Vardy as well was one of them, especially at Leicester Stadium. It was always a difficult opponent to face. but in the World Cup even some players you never heard they can surprise you so that's also part of it we've got loads still to come but we'll be back shortly after this 33 days 33 episodes no off switch from the goals and the glory to the politics and the problems of the World Cup If you want soccer analysis from a podcast that's been overanalyzing the game for more than 20 years, then this is it.

26:59Join me, Max Rushton, and our expert team of soccer journalists every day of the tournament. Can England end 60 years of hurt? Or will this be another year of falling just short? Probably. World Cup Daily, listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch full episodes on YouTube. This ad is sponsored by ZocDoc. Hi, it's Danny Pellegrino from Everything Iconic. Have you been putting off that annual doctor's appointment because you don't want to make the call? Or maybe you've been meaning to find a new dentist, but you have no idea where to start. I find that's especially true when you move. It's hard to find your people.

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28:21You mentioned Harry Kane before. Tell me about Harry Kane. He's England's captain, England's greatest stripper of all time, highest goalscorer. Harry is... It's even special for me to talk about him because when I met him, he was still a young player. Did you see the player becoming... No, no, no. It was impossible to feel or to expect him at this level. He had this finishing attribute, but I think the meeting with Mauricio Pochettino and himself, it was a big change. When they both came together? Yeah, when they both came together. What changed? Physically. Physically, I think he always had this mental aspect.

29:09He's really demanding towards himself. He believes a lot in himself, but then his body completely changed. And even now, if he's more in a different role, you know, he's more dropping, receiving the ball, he's more like a playmaker, even if he's finishing in the box. But at the beginning, he was not this type of player. He was more running into the space. But then, I think around 30 years old, he started to change and adapt a little bit his game. And Erwin, I really like him when he's defending for his team. This is something that you don't see in the other teams.

29:53He shows his hunger to win and I think he transmits that to his teammates. It's really fascinating. Off the field, he's a gentleman. I would say he's almost perfect. He seems it, definitely. There is no controversy. He's a family man. He doesn't go out and drink and have a party? No, no, no. Come on, Harry, man. Do something like that. Yeah, he knows what he wants. Does he ever get angry in a change room? Does he ever explode in a change room? Oh, yeah, yeah. No, he has personality. Yeah? Because you don't see it on the pitch. So he saves it for when he gets into his training ground or does change it?

30:38Yes, yes. That's interesting. He's really quiet and calm, but if he has to say something, he will say it. And I think after many years now in the game, he's more vocal. But even it was already the case at Spurs. And also, he became bigger and bigger. And I had to share also this leadership with him. for me was natural, you know, using Harry, he was the England captain, it was perfect for me and we worked, it worked really well. I know he's not a shouter like you said, but did he still hold people to account? Like if there was people doing things that he didn't think was right, he would pull them in a change room and say, hey, come on.

31:29He would say it when it's not only about one or two players, you know, when it's about the team structure, you know, we had some up and down at Spurs and where we were facing those moments, you know. It's really hard. Where can we start? You know, it's not only about one or two players, it's more about the structure. And even if you question yourself or you question what is going around, the problem is deeper than that. But yes, of course, I think he's an honest guy and he never hides. This match, you played 300 games with him, over 300 games with Harry. The great relationship that you built. Yeah.

32:19With that, what would you say is the biggest change about him in that time from when you first saw him to when you played your last match with him? So, you know, you asked me a question like about if I believed he would become this player at the start. And honestly, I didn't believe that. But after one, two, three, four seasons, yes, I started to believe that he would compete with the best. and even the last few years at Spurs, it was a little bit unfair for him to have all these statistics about assists, about goals. And he didn't have the reward by lifting the trophy. He had a lot of individual rewards, but not the main ones.

33:17And of course, the time of a change happened. And he deserved that moment. And right now he's really enjoying his football at Bayern. And he deserved to be in that spot, to compete with the best. And I will not be surprised if England is going all the way to see him having the Ballon d 'Or. He's at this level today. I think he's at that level, yeah? Yes, I think he's been at this level for a couple of years now. Especially his move at Bayern, he's more under the spotlight. He does exactly what he used to do for Spurs, but he's just winning the trophies. Bigger spotlight, winning, yeah. Do players talk about the Ballon d 'Or?

34:04Not really, no. To be honest, being at Spurs, you don't expect any players to be in that situation or that position. But sharing the French national team, yes, obviously. We used to have great talents. I mean, when I started my career, there was still big names like Thierry Henry or Patrick Vieira. I played only two years with them, but that was the type of players. And then there was also Frank Ribéry. great player then Karim Benzema Antoine Griezmann sorry I need to I need to say when you mention names like this I can't let it go Benzema Griezmann Thierry Henry Mbappe all strikers yeah you have to pick one I have to pick one pick two to play with each other front two front two who are you picking a pair

35:10with I mean related to my history with my to win one game yeah but my story in France with the national team jersey it will naturally come to Kylian Mbappe and Antoine Guzman because that who's the one I share probably the most in term of emotions trophy and and games I can say that And I witnessed that Karim Benzema was also a player. And also spent one year with him at Lyon. He was the young player with the huge potential before he signed to Real Madrid. But yeah, what a player to me. You mentioned Spurs there and I can't see you and not speak about Spurs. And you mentioned the attitude and the mentality of the French team.

36:02Obviously Spurs have always had a nickname of being Spursy. What was that like as a player, hearing that? I was part of the evolution of the club when I witnessed a big change. When I arrived and when I left, the club was on a different level. Not only with the stadium and the training facilities, which are probably one of the best in the world, but also on the field. The only problem, we could not transfer this on the pitch by winning trophies. We had four or five very good years, especially under Mauricio Pochettino. But we were at some point really close to the trophy, but also really far. It's hard to explain, but…

37:02The year Pochettino, when you got to the final of the Champions League, tell me what you think, but I thought at that time, if you guys went in the transfer market and you recruited well again, you guys were there. I think at that time the club was, especially financially, they were focused on the new stadium. And I think the team was growing too fast. When Pochettino arrived after two years, we were already in top four. And then after three years, we were out of the group stage of Champions League, finishing above Real Madrid Dortmund. But we managed to go to the Champions League final. Yes, it was the moment to invest and it was the moment probably to refresh So this group of players because we spent four or five years together building something special without really spending on the market.

38:06So we had a really good starting eleven. We played an attractive football, but probably we had a lack of depth on the bench and in the squad. and we had to deal with the Chelsea of Abramovich, the Liverpool of Jurgen Klopp, the Manchester City of Pep Guardiola. So it's, you know, it's about details at this level and I think we missed probably as a club an opportunity, but it was probably easier to change the coach than to change four or five players to refresh. But then we alternated up and down and I think we never come back to that level, especially in terms of consistency in the result. And now I really look forward to what is going to happen next for Spurs.

39:09They are really active on the transfer market. They tried to put Roberto De Derby in the best condition, having his new players really early. It can make the difference, but let's see. It's a different time. Just to finish on Pochettino, because obviously he's been with the World Cup with the USA team. What was it about him that made him or made you guys so special? You mentioned improving Harry Kane's physicality. What was, because I've met him, I've been out for dinner, I find him a really interesting guy. He's really got a good team around him, good coaches. What is it specifically about him?

39:50It was the perfect match, perfect connection. A young coach who wants to improve and a young team that just wants to develop. But it was not easy at the beginning because the players could not with the intensity of training sessions, with the way he sees football, his visions, you know, and the way he wanted the team to play, you know, playing high intensity, aggressive football. And so the young players came, they took their chance, and they become starters. and also for foreigners players like me, like Jan Vertonghen, like Christian Eriksen. Then there was the addition of Toby Aldeverell. It was an amazing time, no?

40:48But players like Danny Rose, like Kai Walker, of course Hurricane. There was Ryan Mason as well. It was the perfect match, no? because and it was funny because every international call, there was a new Spurs player in the squad. So it was the reward for the players. And so we had four or five amazing years. But at some point, you know, it was. We made a huge effort to bring this team and this club at this level, you know, being in the top four. but we still miss an addition of players. You cannot only go on the transfer market and go to a young potential player. You never know what you get.

41:43I think sometimes you really need to go strong and hard and get a mature player. Ready to play and be the guy now. Yes, yes. I understand that. You had plenty of managers that came through in your time at Spurs. Antonio Conte, one of them. What was he like to work with intensity-wise? He seems like it'd be hard to work under. Yeah, different style of play, different way to manage a group of players. He's more coach than a manager. He's a great coach. I don't have to say it because you just have to see his CV. you know, but it worked quite well the first six months. And then we had this World Cup in the middle of the season.

42:31So I think it was not easy to deal with. And it was OK until the World Cup. And then when we come back from the World Cup, I don't know, it didn't work at all, you know, it's like everything become really heavy and and it was really demanding, really intense. His style of play, you know, it's really robotic as well. But I think we had all the responsibility for what happened next. Is that more the way coaches are now, do you find? No, no, no. More systematic? No, every coach is different. I truly believe that you still need this human being, human side, you know, in the changing room. And you cannot have a separation, you know, between a coach and the players.

43:29And also the team, we could not find a consistent rhythm, you know, in terms of performance and in terms of results. And also myself, you know, when I come back from the national team, from the World Cup, I was completely drained. And when I come back, I had only four or five days off, you know, and I had to go back inside my routine of the club. I felt a really heavy atmosphere. So something went wrong. Moving forward, Jose Mourinho then comes. What was he like to work with? How does Jose Mourinho introduce himself to the squad?

44:19Well, it's funny because when he introduced himself, it was like, if I'm here, it's because of you. Obviously, the club sacked Mauricio and they decided to appoint Jose. And he came with a lot of energy and with his knowledge of the game. I think it was a really interesting time. I mean, even with Antonio Conte, I was in a different stage of my career, but I put myself in the position of a young player. It's amazing to work with those type of coach, you know, because the demand is really high every day, every day. And that's how you make yourself better. If you want to succeed, if you want to develop yourself, you have to follow the way.

45:22Otherwise it would be complicated. Talking of that, that takes me to Dele Alli. Did you see Dele Alli's journey going this way while you were there? Because you were one of the players who would have been there. Yeah. And been next to him. Because it's sad to see the way. It's sad. It's really sad. It hurts. I really like Dele.

45:51And it was hard to predict. It was hard to... He was so talented and... And he started so well his career at Spurs, even with the national team jersey.

46:11It's... But that's more... It's not only for Dele, but it's almost the message, to address to young players is... you can lose the focus on football. And today it's really easy to get distracted by everything around. And then you misunderstand what is the reality. The reality is what is happening on the field every day. That's your job. And the rest, yes, of course, you can develop a lot of things around football. but and I think talking with a lot of ex-players or even actual players, I don't think there is any secret. Hard work, dedication to football, passion to football and make yourself ready to compete because football demands a lot.

47:09And he's finished quick. Yes. Just to finish on Jose, I think I saw on the TV documentary that you guys done, he described an argument between you and Son as beautiful. Please explain what he meant by that. Jose doesn't like a flat atmosphere. He wants to feel his players alive. And even sometimes during training session, if he didn't really fill the team, he would become the referee of a game and he would let it play. So he wanted some tackle, some dirty stuff, to make everybody alive and to elevate the aggressiveness, the concentration, the focus in the session. And we know that that's also his way to manage his players.

48:10He's really demanding in that aspect. He wants leaders. So for Sony, it's all about the context. It was an important game in the race for the Champions League. I think we lost the game before. and also it was in the empty stadium so you could hear everything you know when when you have an argue with a player usually you don't you don't hear I don't like when something like that happen on the field of the field in changing room yes you can have disagreement but but it didn't affect our relation you know we had a lot of respect and and it's part sometimes of our job you know it's we move on really easily from that incident but for sure you witness some in your career.

49:06Sometimes I think when you've had a good successful season you look back and you think there were moments where somebody's had to be the antagonist or created a moment of aggression or fight in a changing room. And it cannot always come from the manager you know and So that's why when Jose said it was beautiful to see or to watch or whatever, it's in that sense, you know. OK, the coach is here to give you the instruction, to give you the team structure, to give you the plan. But then the protagonist are the players. You have to feel the game. And sometimes, you know, But also it shows you that Sony is not the nice guy like everybody thinks.

50:03Yes, he's a fantastic guy, so nice guy, but he's a competitor. And if he reaches that level during his career, it's because he has character, he has personality, and people sometimes forget, he has his say as well. so so it was um but we move on so easily after that but uh it's it's it's part of the job you have to argue yeah it's good just on the way the game is and you said before that you you played in a different generation then you you've blended into this generation playing out from the back very different now yeah um when did you first think like wow this is different it's changed When I started to play for Mauricio Pochettino, there was a big change.

50:49I had to adapt to his demand because playing from the back was part of his game plan. And back in the day, when I started in Mackay, I was, OK, kick as long as you can, maybe target one of the strikers and we played the second ball. It still can be the case, but when you look at the modern football right now, coaches are more demanding. Which way for you? For the keeper, I would say you have to read the game.

51:28But some coaches, they really impose that. There is no way you do something else. Maybe the last five minutes of the game, when you are under pressure. but for me, I don't mind. It's just to have a structure, to have a reference. And it's not only about the goalkeeper or the central defender. It's about the team, the movement. Everything has to be connected. So then after Mauricio, it was Jose. Jose is a different style of play. Antonio is another one. Antonio is more he wants to control the passing pattern there is less freedom for players so if you go away from the orders what is that like? is that like, come on, do what I said is that what it's like?

52:29yes, oh yes especially with Antonio it's very easy After every game, you had 45 minutes of video. This was my nightmare. So you have to make sure that you respect the game plan. Oh, I didn't like this. And that's the difference, I think, from when you would have started to now when you're still playing now, especially the last few years. Everybody is so much more accountable. Everything is seen, training, matches. every element of your game can be broken down. Whereas in our time, if I made some mistakes, I could get through a game and not many people would know that I've made certain mistakes.

53:11Maybe just me, but now you can't hide. No, you can't hide. And me as a keeper, I can see who is hiding or not. When you have the ball, you can see your teammates now. And you can deal with that.

53:32But obviously you need to adapt to the profile of players that you've got in your squad. I played maybe I would say eight to ten years with Olivier Giroud, for example, when he was on the field in national team. is a weapon in the air so why I will not use him in the air so did the shower gave more freedom for that to decide so momentum of the game you know and and I think that's probably the football that I prefer is like you have the freedom you trust yourself you trust your teammate you read the game you feel the game you manage the tempo of the game and if you have to go short if you have to go long.

54:22Of course you want to control the game, ball in your feet, possession, but you know I always feel hard to... You prepare yourself for a game, you prepare a plan for a game, but most of the time you have to adapt because the answer of the opponent is different. It doesn't always go the way it's planned, does it? And if you prepare yourself only to play that way, what is happening if it's not working that day? You have to be capable to read and to change a little bit the way you play. You just mentioned players hiding. Explain for the audience what you mean by that. No, but sometimes it's about body positioning.

55:13Sometimes it's when you have the ball, but they are not looking at you. It's like maybe they are still recovering from a big effort. But we were talking about playing from the back. Yes, but if you don't get the right position, if you're a little bit higher, maybe you don't have the same angle to pass the ball, etc. If your midfielder is not coming to give you the option in the middle for the bouncing, you know, to go to another side, it becomes really hard. So that's why I said you need movement and you cannot be static. So every minute of the game you have to stay focused and connected. Just to finish off, we have a thing about creating your best five-a-side team of players that you've played with.

56:02that we never use goalkeepers. It's OK. So I'm not going to change. I have to be respectful, obviously. But I want to continue that theme. The best five players that you've played with in your career. The problem, you have to pick different positions. It's up to you. You cannot go only with offensive. Some guys went with just the best players. Some guys went for positions. No, if I stay in my French national team story, because otherwise we go too wide, it's hard. I would say if I have to pick one defender, I will pick Raphael Varane. How good was he? What was so great about him? He was really mature, really early, you know.

56:56When he came to the national team, he was only 18 years old.

57:03He was really fast, really good in the air. He could be aggressive when it was needed, winning duels. but his game was more about anticipating, you know, the passing or the movement of the striker. And he's the one who gave a lot of stability to the defense of our generation. He was the number one. And then a great leader, a great leader in the changing room, always talking when it's needed.

57:43and a good friend too. Rafa? Midfielders. There are so many, honestly. Rio, you put me in trouble. Some of the teams, the players they picked. Yes.

58:00Rafa? I think Paul Pogba is part of the success of my generation. He could have done even more, I would say, but it was so important for us.

58:23You know, we had this partnership during the World Cup with Blaise Mathieu, with N 'Golo Kante and Paul Bogba in the middle of the field. Crazy. Crazy. Yeah, running everywhere. Yeah, running everywhere. Paul, when I saw Paul, he said to me, without these two, I can't beat Paul Pogba. Yeah, I think they put, they made Paul even better because he could be even more focused on his creativity. You always need guys to do the dirty job in your team. And it's unfair because sometimes we don't talk enough about them, but they are crucial. I agree. So you put in Kante and Matuidi? No, I can't. There's no enough spot, no?

59:13But no, I would say, yeah. So Raph, Varane, Paul Pogba, Antoine Griezmann. Yeah, Antoine. Again, he was huge in his success. now euro 2016 and world cup 2018 you reach a level of performance he was always decisive and and i think a really nice football player to watch you know really elegant yeah Yeah. So we are three. I cannot mention Kilian. No, we already talked about him. Kilian is there. Kilian, no problem. That's four. And your last one. We are four.

1:00:04Another one.

1:00:08I think I should put N 'Golo Kante. Yeah. Yeah. I have to. also his personality is there is no one like him he seems he seems like the the only guy the way the way he is I think there's many guys you go ah there's one over in Spain it's a similar type of guy there's a guy in Argentina similar to this guy yeah Kante seems like there's only one Kante yeah there's only one Kante and and believe me when he was at his prime at his best it's like you play with 12 players honestly it was everywhere you know usually i mean he could cover the width of the only by himself you know it's uh no it's there's players like that did he did he really drive a mini a mini car i think it's true yeah yeah yeah it's true it's humble really humble yeah really humble yeah i know what what a guy what a personality it's a i think it's a it's great story to tell you.

1:01:07Right, so let's recap your team. So it's Varane, Pogba, Griezmann, Kylian Mbappe and N 'Golo Kanto. It's a good team. It's your World Cup team. Yeah, it's unfair because I could add even more, you know, but you put me in that situation. Well, listen, Hugo, thank you so much. Really a pleasure to see you. You know what? Good luck for the rest of your career as well. Thank you very much. As long as you continue playing. Yes, yes. Thank you. Bye.

1:01:5833 days, 33 episodes, no off switch. From the goals and the glory to the politics and the problems of the World Cup, if you want soccer analysis from a podcast that's been overanalyzing the game for more than 20 years, then this is it. Join me, Max Rushton, and our expert team of soccer journalists every day of the tournament. Can England end 60 years of hurt, or will this be another year of falling just short? Probably. World Cup Daily, listen wherever you get your podcasts, or watch full episodes on YouTube.