If Carrick gets Champions League - any other manager is a BIG RISK! | Why Kobbie Mainoo THRIVED

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0:46Yes, guys, welcome to another episode of Rio Presents. And this is being brought to you by our partners, Crafted Man. And you know what? I'm here with my two guys, Mr. Joel Bayer and Steve Housen. As usual, a week is a long time in football, guys, man. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. The script has changed. It's been ripped up. Start again. And energy's different. Oh, my gosh. Honestly, man, we've got everything to talk about in this episode. You've got to make sure you watch from the start to the end. We've got the AFCON staff. We've got, you know, Premier League. Arsenal striving in the Premier League.

1:21But before we go down that route, I want to talk about the beef between players and pundits. Rio, the situation with Alessandro Martinez as he's hit back at Paul Scholes, who said that Harlan would score. It was him and Nicky Butt. They said that Harlan would score, then throw him in the net. And then that was after Nicky Butt made fun of his five foot seven size. And just to be precise, here's what Martinez said in reply. He wants to say something to me. He can come to say it wherever he wants. to my house, wherever. I don't care. Everyone can talk on television, but when you see them face-to-face, no one says anything in your face.

2:00Oh, Rio. Yeah, all this ice, there's beef. It's not beef. I think it's being made out to be beef. I think, listen, I think there has been this week some stuff that has probably been just over borderline personal. I've spoken to Martinez a few times, face-to-face and online. And you know what? he's someone who just wants to do well. He's someone who just wants to win. He's someone who just wants to get back to the standards that Manchester United were at. He's eager to understand what that looks like. Listen, he's even invited me to come into the training ground to go for a coffee, whatever, just to sit.

2:33I think he's a sponge. He wants to work. He wants to learn. The way he plays, I feel, is the way he is. And he's an honest character. He's a good, good, good, good sort to have in the changing room, it seems, and what I hear from people around the place as well. and I think he's within his rights. If something's got on his nerves and he's come out and said it, but the way it's been taken, I think probably a better context. I don't think he's sitting there saying, listen, come and meet me anywhere and we'll have a tear up. I think he's saying, come and let's have a conversation. Let's talk face to face.

3:00Let's talk about it. If you've got an issue, let's talk about it. I think he's straight as you like like that. And listen, bearing in mind, you're talking about a World Cup winner here. So he knows how to win. And I had a conversation with him after the game and I think he was very just quick and clear. We've set a standard now. We need to gather momentum. And again, someone's his second language. He was spot on with what he's saying. He's always wanted to have conversations with people. He's always been open to that. And what I would say is,

3:32what I would say is that, listen, I think when you're talking about people, as long as you feel you could say the same thing in front of them and you'd be happy to say it in front of them and be stressed out, then listen, it's fair game. But I just have always kind of prided myself on never being personal. Yeah, I can pick people's performances apart. I can pick form apart. I can pick the way people are playing or a manager, how he's dealing with the team, et cetera, and be critical in that sense. But me, as an individual, as an ex-player at the club, et cetera, I've always said that I never want to be personal.

4:06And I hope that I've been like that. And I've spoken about players being injured. and Phil Jones I've apologised to because I felt maybe I was talking about stuff I wasn't as informed as I should have been on. If they weren't happy with what I've said, I've always said, I'll come and see you. I'll come and speak to you. It's not a problem. Our job is to report and talk about what the players are doing and how they're doing. And if there is an issue, I'd like to think that a player would go, do you know what, Rio? Let's have a conversation about it. And I'm straight enough to go, yeah, I'll come and meet you wherever, whenever you want.

4:36Let's have a man-to-man conversation. Just make sure you come and meet me when we win the league. Steve, I know you're a big Martinez fan, probably the biggest Martinez fan that I know. What's your thoughts on the whole situation? Rio's the opposite way. You're too soft, you. I think some of the United pundits have been far too harsh. And I think this week, there's a lot of United fans have seen their arse. And you've been lumped in with this as well. But I think you've been unfairly lumped in with this because I think you're too soft, if anything. People have seen their arse with Roy Keane. people have seen their ass with Gary Neville although I think people saw their ass with Gary Neville and the way he talks about United a long time ago his punditry almost feels like he's annoyed that United do well and people have sort of seen their ass a little bit with Nicky Butt and Paul Scholes I think it's disappointing with Paul Scholes to be talking about someone's physicality because he proved physicality means nothing when you've got the reading of the game and the intelligence and the touch and you understand the game properly because you look at Paul Scholes and you think there's not a chance this guy's going to be a professional footballer, but he was one of the best.

5:43You know, showing that physicality is one aspect of the 25 that you need. And Lissandro Martinez, is he going to win a header against Erling Haaland? No, he might not win a header against me, but he's not here to do that. He reads the game so well. Like, look, if you look at how many interceptions he made against Erling Haaland, like Erling Haaland's on 20 goals, 2-0 this season. It was like he'd never played before. he just completely shut the supply down to him like yes if you're up at a back post and Erling Haaland's getting over Lissandro Martinez my money's on Erling Haaland all day long but Lissandro Martinez has played the game long enough played in England long enough to know not to find himself in those situations and it's six out of seven games he's played against Erling Haaland where he shut him down it was nice to see Martinez's comments by the way after the game he said when you have a coach like Mark Carrick who really knows who really can share with you the energy of the club and what it means.

6:37It's so different. And that just makes me feel that when I've spoken to Martinez, all I've felt from him is that he's wanted to kind of get grasped what it means. What is the feeling? What was it like when you were... That's the type of guy that he is. That's why I've warmed to him over the course of his career here. He may not have played as many games as we would have liked and it's been in a really difficult time, right? But what I do like is when someone... He reminds me of me a little bit. Inquisitive, curious-minded and not scared to ask questions. What's it like there? what was it like when you guys were winning and he wants to build that information to put into his armory to be able to go and put it out and feed it into his teammates it's a great trade to have and that's and that's why i do wish him well and i wish the team well rio obviously scolzy's reply was someone's had a good game was really happy for you tea no sugar please atlessandro martinez now you know paul scoles more than any of us here how do you reckon he took it and what did you think when you saw that tongue-in-cheek reply exactly the way i thought scolzy would reply was that he don't get he don't care scolzy's not bothered about what anyone thinks and he and it just to a certain degree he's right we've had a good game mate well done this talking about 10 10 games 20 games we'll talk at the end of the season that's how scolzy would would talk and listen scolzy's not uh yes there'll be no animosity with scolzy again scolzy it was a tongue-in-cheek comment, but Scolzi is a respectful guy and I'm sure that if he sees, or when he sees Martinez, they'll have a conversation and probably have a chuckle about it and a laugh over a cup of tea, I'm sure.

8:07But yeah, I mean, listen, the difference in today's game is that we didn't have all of these voices. We had a couple of voices on Match of the Day and a few reporters who we didn't give a toss about because they'd never played football before. The difference in this time is that people that are making comments and controlling the narrative are people that played the game and who a lot of these players looked up to. so it is going to hit a bit different and a little bit harder at times but just it's the world we're in right now and these players I'm sure it's the ones coming up especially they understand this and they're going to they're going to probably be more used to it now Steve Rio I'm going to talk to you about this one because um I think this was this was a bit offside when former players i.e Roy Keane he ended up talking about Michael Carrick's wife it was a bit of a surprise and disappointment to me if I'm honest the only thing that would make sense to me is that Ollie had worded up Roy Keane and Roy was going to be coming in as part of his coaching staff because nothing else makes sense for the level of vitriol that he's had this week he was even having him off in the warm-up like this United team can't keep clean sheets look at the state of him look at this this warm-up don't look all that like it was just he's he's let one go on Johnny Evans like kicking off like he was a loans manager and then they brought him back four weeks later and you're like yeah but he knows that dressing room like michael carrick doesn't know half of these players he's got a voice in there someone that he's played with that he trusts in johnny evans and he'd be like he's a bit quiet is he okay and he'd be like oh yeah he's always quiet don't worry about it like that's the sort of intel that a manager that's coming in could really do if somebody who actually knows the players that he trusts rather than just this whole i think johnny evans is a pretty shrewd appointment to be honest with you he's a great appointment i agree with you he's not going to be taking sessions he's not going to be picking a team like i think he's a really shrewd appointment um i nothing else really makes sense i mean to remember the tweet that was deleted by the way from 12 years ago 14 years ago is and bring it up on a podcast in that manner it's yeah jesus like you know you know the thing about johnny evans as well like why i thought it was a like, like, Johnny Evans was like, it's like, why, why him?

10:15He's actually probably fourth in line, maybe fifth in line. Like, he's not going to be, like you say, taking sessions. You've got Michael Carrick, Steve Holland. He's been assistant to some of the biggest names in recent years, by the way. Jonathan Woodgate, who's actually managed the team and he's a coach, yep. And been a top player, by the way. Then, then you've got Travis, by the way, who's a, I think he's a 21s coach. They've got, they've got higher hopes for him as well. They see him as a bit McKenna-ish in terms of his impact and influence and his quality. and then you've got Johnny Evans.

10:43And like you say, Johnny Evans ain't going to be taking such... Do you know what Johnny Evans would be great for? He'd be great for taking the likes of Lenny Uro, the likes of Aidan Heaven and all the younger centre-backs coming through and working on little basic fundamentals and getting reps in. Repetition, repetition, repetition. That's the type of area that I'll be saying to him, Michael, if I'm my character, I ain't got time to do all this. It's too quick. There's too much stuff going on here. There's bigger fish to fry. But for the long term of this football club, you go and concentrate on improving two, three, four, five of these young individual players in this team and get them better.

11:15I have to say, yeah, I did agree with Roy Keane initially when he said, what is he doing there? Like, I'm not going to lie. I did agree with him because I thought to myself, maybe he's right. Maybe they do need a bit more experience because of the situation they're in. I just... Joel, what a lot of nonsense. How did Mikel Arteta get his job at Arsenal as the head coach when he'd done fuck all apart from pick Pep's bibs up, right? How did Roy Keane get his first job at Sunderland? like Johnny Evans has gone in as a coach. That's what you're supposed to do. Like you're not too inexperienced. He's had 20 years at Manchester United and Leicester and all over the place.

11:49He is experienced enough to be the 15 line coach, putting the fucking cones out. Jesus Christ. But you didn't let me land Steve. You didn't let me, you attacked me. What I was going to say is when I saw Rio's probably one of your best responses I've ever seen, by the way, Rio, I thought to myself, you're right. You know, because football's changed. People have different characteristics. So to have someone who can focus on them and know their personalities, et cetera, it's vital. You know, it's not like back in your day where everybody's just got to run and everybody's doing the same exercises, you know, and everyone's just got to get in line with it.

12:21So you're retired 12 years ago, not in 1955. I know, I know, I know, I know. It sounds like I'm, it sounds like I'm saying you're mad old, but you said at the start of the show, a lot can happen in football in one week. So 12, 12 years. It's a long time, mate. People like Jonathan Woodgate and Johnny Evans, they're perfect for these younger players because they played in a generation before where basics and fundamentals were imperative you had to have them and they're now in a generation where they're actually probably falling away from the game and they need to be reintroduced more and more to these younger players they're perfectly placed to do this like i think michael correct regardless of how he does here right if you're talking about the time and bringing in a coaching staff and the time he had to do it and the time of the season i don't know if he can get it any better than what he's got when you've got the experience of Steve Holland, who's worked with some of the players with England here, by the way, as well, which is a nice adage as well.

13:17And the other guys we've mentioned, I just don't understand where you're going to get much better than that at this time. You're the striking coach.

13:27Waza will be in there. Waza will be doing two days a week soon, I'm sure. Is there a world in which Michael Carrick gets this permanent job? Well, if you're sitting in the shoes of Ineos, right? Jason Wilcox and Omar Brada, but I think performance results will dictate that. I can't see that Michael Carrick gets Manchester United into the Champions League. The team are playing a brand of football that everyone can identify with and go, you know what that feels like, United. The players look happy and there's riot noises coming out of the club. How do you not give it to him? That's my point. People will say, after it was a mistake.

14:07Michael Carrick is not Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. And Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is not Michael Carrick. So you can't judge the two the same. Different people, different ways of living. Yeah, but I don't know any other business in the world where someone does really well and you go, but I can't go with you. I'm going to go and take a chance on someone else who's proven somewhere else, but not here. By the way, this is one of the biggest clubs in the world, by the way, and it is different here. But we've got someone who's in the building, who's doing well. Everything seems to be going in the right direction, but we're going to go away from that?

14:38No. Yeah, I think it depends on who's available as well, though. That's the thing. And right now, there are not a lot of top managers that you would go, all right, you know what? He's definitely a shoo-in. Unless it's Enrique. If Enrique comes available. Yeah, maybe there's a Luis Enrique, maybe. Yeah, I get it. But there ain't going to be too many more names like that that you're going to be plucking from the sky, that get-able, that you can get and go and get. and he's actually, he can give you that guarantee. Even him, he ain't going to be able to guarantee anything either. He's doing great.

15:08He's been brilliant. He's been fantastic at Barca. Great at PSG. Don't get me wrong. I love him. Still not a guarantee. Do you know what I mean? Everyone thought Jose Mourinho was going to be a guarantee. I mean, if you stayed with him, I think it would have been, but you guys, you know. If, but, and maybes, Joel. If, but, and maybes. More confidence in Ineos doing the recruitment for Michael Carrick than I ever would have done with Ed Woodward doing the recruitment. 100 % agree. But, Steve, I want to ask you, right? Carrick only had three days with the players. We saw a big difference. But what was the biggest difference from the Amarim set-up that you noticed?

15:45It was compact. We had shape behind the ball. Midfield was really tucking in as well. Dogu was drifting into the half space rather than just holding the line. and that really helped compact the midfield because we pressed with a four, which is a ballsy call to do against Manchester City is to try and press with a four because then you're leaving two people kind of known for not having massive legs and engines in Casemiro and Maynou as a pivot right behind that four and then about four behind them. City playing with sort of three creative players in and around that two could have overloaded us.

16:24So we were gambling hard on that. we would put pressure on them. But when the ball did come in, like you'd see Dogu tucking in and almost making a free sometimes and making it really difficult. We denied City all of the central space. Like they got nothing down the center of the park, which is brilliant. It was a ball to call to do it like that, 4-2-4. Because City are good enough to knock it past that first line of press and be like, nah, nice one, cheers. And then just hit you and attack you. But like, we completely shut down all of their offensive, output. You saw Haaland getting hooked. When does that happen?

17:00You saw Foden getting dragged off. Like, they've had Dokku and Cherky. I bet he's regretting some of the things he's said recently. Like, so many attacking players. Like, City were complaining about their not first choice defence. Like, they haven't just bought an entire new team in the last 12 months, by the way. They were moaning about their lack of first choice defence. Like, they haven't got the biggest squad that football's ever seen. but their attacking players were there. We just didn't let them play. And it wasn't a low block either. People are going to talk about a low block because they don't have a clue what they're talking about.

17:34But it was a nice high line from United. It was just narrow and compact. It was really hard to play for them. We were forcing them to go wide and then taking the ball off them. And then once we did take the ball off them, it wasn't oofball. It was precise forward passes into the path of runners. Honestly, I mean, Rio, what was that group chart of yours going on flight? Because their next players must have been as excited as all of us lot were as fans. That's Manchester United. Get us off the feet. I saw wingers running at fullbacks. I saw fast forward play. I fucking loved it this weekend. That was United.

18:05All these people chatting shit about United DNA. Michael Carrick walked on, didn't even put a shirt and tie on. He was smart, casual, and just delivered Manchester United DNA. Said, yeah, you can talk about what the DNA is. I'm going to fucking show you what DNA is. There we go. Exactly where I was going with it. Everyone was asked about the main United DNA. and there was loads of murmuring, this, that, and the other. Michael just said, you know what? I'm going to show you. Forget talking about it, guys. Let's have a look at it. It'll give you 90 minutes of it. And listen, it weren't perfect, but it was bloody good.

18:35And you know what? This is the standard now. And I think that's the thing. That's the key thing to talk about. The players have shown a standard. The manager and his coaching staff have seen a standard now. They've got to maintain that. They have to maintain that. They've seen what good looks like. They've seen what gets at Old Trafford Stadium on their feet, aroused and going crazy. They've seen, they felt that feeling. You've got to want that again. And you know what the basics are now to do that. You've got to work hard. You've got to run. We spoke to Ryan Giggs. He talked about being brave, taking risks on the ball and running.

19:10We saw that at the weekend. And I think it all makes sense when you can see that the players made sense of what they were being asked to do. That's what it felt like in this game. It felt like they understood what the remit was. And I think it's one thing that I think a lot of people aren't talking about. Michael Carrick has come in. He's made two big calls, you know. You've got one striker at number nine who's in form, Sesko. He's in form and scoring goals. Out of the team, please. Kunja, who everyone's been raving about and going, I love him. I love him. He looks like a real Man United player.

19:42Them two players came out of the team. Why? Because he said, first and form, before anything, I just want people to run. and he had others who he thought could probably in that capacity a bit more. Not to say he's not going to use them. And I think, listen, Kunja came on and showed his worth when he came on. But I think it was really interesting to see, listen, I've got a way of playing and these are at the moment for this game fit better. And I think that this will change and these players will all rotate. How, in which shape will remain to be seen. But so many positives. The amount of sprints, 27, I think, Dorgu and 30 for Ahmad is a ridiculous output, right?

20:17who else in the squad can play in that wide area and have that output if that's the requirement? That's going to be the test, you know. If he has to change it up, if there's an injury, if there's a suspension, who can go out there? Shea Lacey. And do that. Shea Lacey, has he got the capacity to do that? Mason Mount maybe could go out there, or is he now vying for the 10th spot with Bruno? Kunja, can he do that? And I think it's a different ask with Kunja now, what he's got to respond to. and I'm interested to see the response. Dorgou's improvement as well in recent weeks, Rio. He's starting to really like, I'm seeing him higher up the pitch.

20:56He's making better decisions. I don't know, man. Steve, is it, you like Dorgou. Like what's been the difference? I don't know, but I know that, shout out Kwaku, Sadov, his coach that we had on. He's doing a bit regular. He was obviously always going to be physically prepared because Seidoff smashes them. Like, if you follow him on Instagram, you see what he's doing to the lads. Like, I bet the sports scientists at United are watching through their fingers because he looks like he's drilling them. But Doggy looks like one of the most conditioned players in the Premier League, doesn't he? Like, he can do 90 minutes and then probably bang out another 90 minutes.

21:33And he is game to the gills. Like, how many duels is he getting involved in week to week? It's like 15, 16, 17, 18 duels. Like, he's just about it. he's just ready to fight at all times of the day. I think the only criticism that you could have of him was from a technical level, he looked a little bit behind the rest of the players. But he's picking his moments and learning how to play with what he's got. He's got pace, he's got power, and he's using those things properly in the game because he's not thick. He ain't just a runner. He's got a football brain. You can see he understands the game.

22:06He's just, he touches a little bit off. And he's playing to the moments that suit him. He's arriving late in the box. He's making challenges. and you know I actually thought he'd probably be better suited to play in fullback but at the moment playing him on the wing last few weeks he's probably had his best games in the United shirt when he's been played on the wing which I did not expect he's got four goal involvements in his last six matches and he's been playing higher and you know what we've been saying it on the pod for weeks like someone get hold of him and simplify his game especially when he gets in the final third the early part of the game he banged two balls across or three balls across the front of the goal not overthinking it not thinking should I do this still have to over-elaborate.

22:44Simplify your game. I saw a lot of players, I think, sometimes fail to understand it. Sometimes just playing more simple and not thinking about it too much makes things so much easier and you get better rewards for it. But I don't know, it's easy to say now, he's seen a good performance and so he can sit here and go, well done, great, great, great work. But you've got to think about Amorim and you look back, did he misread a lot of players or was his system just not right for certain players. Because you look at Kobie Maynou who comes into the team and you're sitting there going, how is this kid not playing?

23:16And everyone's been saying it. Why is he not playing? The system didn't suit him. And I think that is a... It's not an excuse for a player or a slight on a player. Sometimes there are systems that aren't going to suit certain individuals. And Kobie Maynou, the big difference with this formation that Carrick played to the one that Amarim played is spaces and space around players in that middle area. Steve touched on it before being more compact. 4-4-2, when Man Utd didn't have the ball, made us so much more connected, especially in that middle area. Dogu's dropping in and coming in tighter alongside the midfield.

23:51You've got Bruno in front of that in a 10, they're still condensing areas as well at times. And you've got Ahmad at times, he might have dropped in not as much. But it means that the two midfielders ain't being left on their own, isolated, with big, big, big ground around them to cover. And spaces for opposition number 10s especially to get in and around. it was a big difference for us and that's what makes it a team that Maynou can play in when there aren't big spaces because listen unfortunately physicality for certain players isn't their number one strength but if it isn't play to their strength then if they're that good and Kobi Maynou is what time are you turning up if you're Kobi Maynou because I think I'm there at 6.15am every single morning morning Michael have you got your boots on let's get out on the pitch because if anyone can turn Kobi Maynou to the next level it's Michael Carrick If you can take some of the best traits that Michael Carrick had, punching it into the striker, cutting off the spacing behind you to the striker, those little bits of his game make Kobi Maynou an unbelievable midfielder.

24:48Do you know the mad thing, Steve? We said it the other day on the podcast as well. Michael Carrick was probably the best player that I've played with in terms of being able to stop a pass into the front man. So I'm behind him, and he'd cut off the lane that the ball can come into the striker. He'd just step left or step right. I'll be shouting him as well, but he ended up knowing it himself. Or he took a step forward to cut the angle. He was ridiculously intelligent without the ball. So for someone who used to, by the way, they used to say, can he get around the park enough and blah, blah. You're intelligent enough sometimes.

25:23Your positions you take up. Casemiro had done that for years at Real Madrid. Casemiro's physically, in terms of being able to run and cover ground quickly, had never been his best trait. But he took up great positions. and he was in a team that allowed him to be able to be the best version of himself in that position. And this is what you've got to find. I think we, with Amirim, I think he was, again, we talk about being stubborn. You had a group of players, sometimes you've got to mould your tactics around some of the players that you have at times to get you through a period. And he was never maybe bendy enough to do that and willing enough to do that.

25:55And it was probably one of the biggest undoings of him. Rio, I noticed whilst I was cheering on Man United, United, United. Just happy you guys were going to hand us the title, right? United. I saw how hard the players were running. Why is that, Rio? You know, the main thing I think is understanding the role and then believing in the role. That's the two things there. Understanding what the manager is asking you to do and then going, yep, I think that's going to work. I feel it works. I see it working. And I think that comes in. When you understand something psychologically, it becomes easier to sprint over them big distances, them hard distances, like the reps of them, doing them time and time again.

26:38And we saw the amounts, especially the two wide guys, Ahmad and Dogu, they done, I think it was 27 and 30 sprints, huge numbers. And if you compare that, I mean, listen, if you're in a corporate job in any walk of life and your boss is telling you to carry on doing that every day and you're seeing it's not working, it drains the life out of you the belief and hope drains out of you and that's what i think happened in the end with the guys with amaran not that they weren't running just if you just take the edge off a run time and time again then you're going to be percentages off it and i think i'm not saying they gave up but i just think that the intention might have just been a little bit lacking because of the lack of belief the results are telling them it isn't working the effort's there but the output isn't going to be the same and i think 4-4-2 simplified everything out of possession a manager can put everything he wants to put into you right when the game starts and you start seeing a couple of positives from what he said and you look around and you go guys it's working it's bloody working there's a more there's a bigger energy then comes out and feeds out and seeps out of the paws of the players and then you get a performance like you saw against man city but i'll repeat again what we need again this has to be repeated this has to be a standard that's been set and the momentum has to build off the back of this exactly because you've got a big game coming up next but during Amarim's time United players average 11 sprints per nighty but Ahmad made 30 and Durga made 27 in a game versus City Steve you listen man you manage at a higher level that does a system or manager's instruction really affect how hard you run would you say?

28:16I wouldn't have thought so. I wouldn't have thought it's instruction. I think you, I think the likes of Dargu and Ahmad are going to run anyway. I think you can pick a team that's going to run and then you can pick a team that's not going to run. It's about knowing your players, isn't it? And I think one thing that I don't think has been touched on too much, and this isn't a slight on those lads, but we probably picked our oldest back four weekend or most experienced back four we've seen some back threes recently that's had and even back fours that's had Yoro and Heaven alongside each other not enough communication whereas Shaw, Maguire, Martin, Esdalo probably the most experienced back four we could have played with Masrai being at AFCON I think that goes a long way and I think that encouragement, that organization from behind, Bruno being a little bit higher up, he sets in energy when it comes to a press.

29:15Mbumo, Ahmad, Dogu, you've got four lads there in that front line. They're going to press. They're going to press regardless, aren't they? When you play Xerxes in your forward line, is he pressing? He ain't pressing. You know what I mean? I think there's a difference, isn't there? And I know he's not played loads, I'm not digging him out but you know you can have one of them no Steve you know you can have one of them if everyone else is pressing if everyone else you can carry one maybe two when you're a top top team in terms of out of possession maybe less probably less so today in our time we at Berbatov came I'm sure one of our keepers ran more than him in one of the games do you mean like when you got the ability and the output that he was giving us you don't mind carrying him out of possession because you know when you got the ball and you get the ball in the box he's going to score or deliver a pass to put a chance on a plate for someone.

30:08But, like you say, you might accept that more when you've got the quality that I'm talking about. I sent you that tweet in the week or weekend where it's got United 2006 Manchester Derby 20 years ago. If that doesn't make you feel old, I don't know what it does. 20 years ago, Manchester United in possession, Manchester Derby. I think it's at home. and we are in a 3-2-5 shape. So Alex Ferguson gets zero credit for the tactical shapes that we used to bring up. And you didn't even realize you was in that shape, did you? So we probably didn't put it on a whiteboard anywhere. Football don't change that much.

30:48It's just the wording around it and the phrases that are around it, like they change and it seems like we've updated the whole thing. And people paint clearer pictures now because there's more time to see things and analyze and more data. So things are a lot more clearer. but yeah I mean listen when we used to build I'd kind of come to the right of the box a little bit but if I got the ball to the right side of the box I didn't want Gary Neville or Wes Brown right next to me I wanted him high so then we look like we're probably playing a three sometimes probably playing a two at the back when we're in possession because you've got your two fullbacks were really high but yeah I mean listen Michael Carrick there's going to be references to when he played because it was such a successful time and he knows that that's what he knows so he's going to reference that sometimes and some of the shapes that his teams have.

31:33But can I just, I think there was so much said about Kobi Manu at Man United, right? And a lot of it was as to why he can't play. Why isn't he playing? Question marks, free Kobi Manu, et cetera, right? One thing to come out this weekend, Kobi Manu told the world, I can play for Manchester United. That's what he told everybody because you put him in the right team, you put him in the right setup, he can perform, right? And I think we've got to appreciate the pressure on his young shoulders going into that game based on all of the noise that was surrounding him for all the months that's gone past.

32:10The magnitude of the game being a derby as well, what that means for a young local kid getting into the team. And he's come in and put a performance like that. That tells you he's got balls of steel, he's confident, and he's got it. He has got it in spades because that ain't an easy ask, man. I'm telling you. because everyone would have been going, do you know what? And I'd have been sitting here if he hadn't had a good game. I'd go, do you know what? He's got to get up to speed though. Needs a bit of rhythm. Needs a bit of time. He's lacking fitness. And he just said, I don't need your backing.

32:40I'm going to put it down to performance and let people know I am still here. And he did. Is that not just evidence that all three of those midfielders that started were sensational? Casemiro rolled back the years. Kobi Maynou looked like the player that we knew he was. Bruno Fernandes put on a masterclass. so it's just not evidence that we should have been playing a three with those three all fucking season yeah it's saying that has football left Casemiro is it gone or is it I don't know is it back or that statement looks worse and worse all the time because even this season he's done well most of the time but I don't know man I just I always think this when you when you you look at players in teams and they're not doing well it's more than just that they're not good enough or they're not Like there are sometimes big reasons as to team structure and the shape of the team and maybe relationship with manager and stuff that isn't enabling them to perform.

33:36It isn't just about a basic, oh, he's not good enough, got to get rid of him. You've got to look into these things a little bit more at times. Right, man, we've got loads still to come right on this pod, but we'll be back shortly after this. Host unforgettable backyard barbecues with savings from Whole Foods Market. Get the good times going with made-in-house chicken or pork sausages and ready-to-cook kebabs for hassle-free flavor. Grab tasty flatbreads and their new balsamic chicken salad in the prepared foods department. Keep things fresh with organic red cherries, strawberries, and peaches at their peak.

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34:44Yes. Bruno back in the number 10, close to Mwemo. That looked dangerous, Steve. Was you giddy? I think, like we said earlier, Michael Carrick has just come and shown us what Manchester United DNA is. People were saying play the youth. He played the youth. People were saying play the back four. He played the back four. People want to talk about Bruno Fernandes being a problem. Bruno Fernandes leads the assist charts in a dysfunctional team, and he's been playing in the number six all season. He's got nine assists this year. Think about that. Think about if we'd have actually been good this year, where he might have been.

35:23Like Bruno Fernandes, whether the team's good or bad, he just delivers. But he's played on the right, he's played in a false nine, he's played in a six to eight. In the number 10, Bruno Fernandes is in the conversation for the best number 10 in world football. What do you want from your number 10? You want him to create chances, and if you can help out defensively with pressing, that's fantastic. He does both of those things. Bruno Fernandes is not the problem at Manchester United, or he's not a problem at Manchester United. Does he throw his hands in the air? Yeah. Let me show you Wayne Rooney, right?

35:56If you want to talk about people that are a little bit emotional on the football pitch. Let me show you Ryan Giggs. Early doors, Ryan Giggs used to throw his hands around all over the place. Like, I don't care. You know, was Roy Keane a more stoic captain? Yeah. Was Vidic a more stoic captain? Yeah. Does it mean he's less of a captain? or that he cares less than they care. He cares. He's in there early. He'll be the first in, last out. I guarantee it. He cares. It's just, I think people were just, it was the moaning that was getting onto people. I think everything you've said about Bruno is correct, by the way.

36:29I even apologized earlier last year because I said that, you know, Odegaard was better. And, you know, when I get it wrong, I put my hands up. But I just think when you see - You must walk around like this.

36:44i just think i just think at the time i even saw it on on the weekend by the way he had a right moan at Mbwemo where he didn't make a in my opinion the pass should have been firmer i'm pretty sure you see this right steve he he had the chance he passed it to Mbwemo and it wasn't a good enough pass and he starts complaining at Mbwemo Mbwemo turns around and he goes what are you looking at me for it wasn't my fault and i thought okay united are winning so that's not going to be covered but that's the moaning that they talk about where he does agree all about him and Rooney on the pitch moaning good man no I think moaning's healthy arguing's healthy if it's done with the right from the right place of just improving and doing better and demanding of each other it's it's needed man because you need you need to there's no doubt in my mind if someone makes a mistake at United at the moment they're thinking oh before the manager Bruno's going to to be onto me.

37:37He's in a sharp moaning and going on in me ear. But Rio, it was Bruno that made the mistake. That's what I'm saying. So I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. We all don't. But I think sometimes he does that too much. Yeah, but it might have been a bad ball, yeah. But he might be saying, I need you to show before that. I'm having to wait a little bit longer on the ball than I should because you ain't acknowledging where I am and what I need. You've got to know me, man. I need this. Well, listen, let's just move on now because I don't want to hear no slander on my man, Mr. Bruno. for them. Let's move on to Arsenal.

38:08What's going on with Arsenal? You know what? A lot of people are picking holes in Arsenal's performance and their draw with Forrest. But it's another point gained. That's the way you've got to look at it and I'm sure they will. And it's another clean sheet. Rio. Rio. 15 points clear of Manchester United. Everyone's saying Villa won yesterday. It would have only been four points. What? Victory, bruv. You got beat by Everton right about now. I'm not going to lie. We should probably be 12 points clear in this league title. There have been two games where I think we should have won. We should have taken advantage of the Liverpool game.

38:38Should have taken advantage of the game yesterday on Saturday. But either way, we're in a very good position. And I do believe that because everybody is not good enough, we'll be fine. Yeah, that's exactly. I agree with you 100%. Because of the state of the other teams, the inconsistencies of the other teams, you've got to remember in the last four or five years, the consistency of the top two or three teams has been ridiculous. It's been remarkable, really. but this season there's been a massive massive fall off the champions nowhere to be seen Man City are not showing a consistency that needed to mount a real challenge and you guys are drawing games are winning games and just stumbling a little bit but you've got a foundation of clean sheets that you can fall back on, you've got a defence that can defend and know how to get clean sheets that bodes well for you guys all of those things I've just said there means that you guys should go on and win this league yeah I mean I've seen a lot of comparisons though between Saka and Saka and Kunya etc so yeah so stats I don't know why stats are flying anyway like they're trying to compare my star boy to Kunya practically the same amount of minutes but they both got four goals each Saka's got three assists and Kunya's got two assists now is it still fair to say that Saka needs to be doing better this season or is it alright because we've got a big enough squad Rio?

40:03I'm not even going to ask Steve. Listen I'm going to look at it if I'm sitting in Saka's shoes of course he wants to score more goals of course he wants to score to get more assists. He set a bar his bar is much higher than that so he will be sitting there going you know what I should be doing more than this and better than this but we're top of the league and I've got a chance of getting a winner's medal So I think he would take a season with his foot off the gas a little bit to get a trophy, to win the league 100%. So that's the way that I think he has to look at it. I think, listen, he'll be trying everything behind the scenes to get himself back up and running, kicking it in terms of form.

40:41Listen, I don't think his form's been that bad in terms of him playing. I just think his numbers aren't as good as what they were. It's true. Go on, Steve, because you're making me laugh and you haven't even said anything. Go on. I don't need to say anything. the fact that you're comparing someone you call Starboy someone I keep getting told is world class what I don't know but I keep getting told is world class with Cunha who's playing for a team where he's been missing his strike partnerships all season and we just had to sack our manager because we've been that bad that tells you everything I need to know I'm just going to read something out for you here this so called world class player Winger playing for a team that people keep telling me have been the best team consistently, like calendar year, calendar year, calendar year, despite never winning anything.

41:29This is Pakai Osako's Premier League goals for the last 12 months. January, last year, zero goals. February, zero goals. March, zero goals. April, zero goals. May, zero goals. Now there was no goals in June or July. I know you'd be like, there's no football, but the point is he scored no goals. August. August combo breaker, one goal. September back to form, zero goals. October, two goals. November, zero goals. December, one goal. For a guy that's ever present in your team, four goals in a calendar year for a so-called world-class player, get out. Steve, he's been injured for quite a few of those months, by the way.

42:15Has he done? Yeah, he has though. Because even last year, yeah, before we, when we were, when we had that run at the end of the season, he was injured. And he was injured again this season as well. So come on, man. Is he injured or does he just do that limp thing? No, he's injured. The question is though, is if you're a manager in the Premier League today, would you take Saka? You would. Of course. 100%. You would. 100%. I think Jolyon said it best, Steve. You're asking about what he's actually good at when it comes to world class. You know what he's going to do. You can't stop it. And that alone, the consistency and the delivery and even Rio himself said, where he's been impressed with Saka in the last 18 months is he's added tools to his game.

42:56He's not just cutting in on the left. Now he can go in on the right. It's a bit of a surprise. You don't know what he's going to do. The only tools he's added is set-piece delivery. No, that's not the only tool. It's also being able to go on both sides, Steve. Yes. Have you seen that stat as well, by the way? If you don't score a set play goal, you don't win. You can say that, but we've had games this year. No, I can say that because it's literally a fact. as far as I'm concerned Rio I'm just going to wrap it up before we move on to Palace as far as I'm concerned we will be winning the league seven points clear Villa have got a nice little run of four games you know where they're going to pick up some points like oh my gosh I know you're looking in their rear view mirrors sweating because for the league for the excitement just even just for this pod I would love it Kevin Keegan moment I'd love it if Villa and City really ramped it up and it went like to one point between three have you seen that They play each other final game of the season.

43:51I think it'll be over by then, SteeDee. Yep. We're winning it. We're winning it. What if you come third? And it's us fourth? No, if you come third. If Arsenal come third. Oh my God. City are going to pick up, man. They've signed too many players to be bad. They've signed far too many players to be bad. It's going to take them a while to bed in, man. And you know what it's like? You lot are great. You lot are like a horse running a track on its own. But as soon as any other horses appear, you fucking start stumbling and falling over. Joe, just one more thing. That's how it goes, man. If you lot stumble and don't win it, we've got to do a live pod back in England and invite all those of the listeners, all the viewers to come in and just do the live pod and just see the vibes.

44:34You should do it. Moving it on, Crystal Palace, right? So before they lost to Sunderland, it was announced that Oliver Glasner would leave Palace at the end of the season. And they were about to lose their captain, Mark Gay, as well. to Manchester City, which I think is outrageous for the fee. What's it? They paid like 20 mil for him. It's ridiculous. Glasner then came out after the match and said he felt completely abandoned by the club. Rio, would you say that is right? Yes or no? You know what? I think it's all in the detail. There's no way that Glasner took that job at Crystal Palace and thought we are going to build players to 60, 70 to 100 million pounds and keep them and mount title challenges.

45:18There's no way that he thought that or any day in his wildest dreams expected that to happen, right? Now, he's built a few players. Mateta, Gaye. Eze obviously was built before he came to the club, etc. But Alise, he went into that club knowing they're a selling club. Palace are a selling club. Now, my point is, what has been the conversations around these players is I think where there's been a discrepancy and why he's come out the way he has. because has he been told that Gay is now going to stay to the end of the season and that's been ripped up and the carpet's been pulled from under his feet?

45:52Or is he going, well, the replacements, where are they? Or they're not good enough. They brought in a young kid from France before and he's not ready to play. We've not known no one to come in now. Who are we going to be able to get for that£20 million we've just taken in? And are you saying we cannot go into the market? These are the details that we don't know that might have triggered him to be in a place where he said, I'm going to resign into the season. Finally, does he go to a top club after this? Because obviously a lot of people are raving about his management, et cetera. Where can you see him potentially going to?

46:25He's favourite for United, Job, isn't he? Yeah, I see that. But then that means you go back to a 3-5-2. United would be insane to appoint him after, even if he's, I know that he says 4-4-2, 4-2-3-1 is his formation, but everyone would just immediately jump on the 3-4-3 if United appointed him. It'd be too much noise. Is there a world in which Michael Carrick gets this permanent job? Well, if you're sitting in the shoes of Ineos, right? Jason Wilcox and Omar Brada, I think performance results will dictate that. I can't see that Michael Carrick gets Manchester United into the Champions League. The team are playing a brand of football that everyone can identify with and go, you know what that feels like, United.

47:09The players look happy. and there's riot noises coming out of the club. How do you not give it to him? That's my point. People will say,

47:22Michael Carrick is not Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. And Ole Gunnar Solskjaer is not Michael Carrick. So you can't judge the two the same. Different people, different ways of living. You know that's the narrative that people will say. Yeah, but I don't know any other business in the world where someone does really well and you go, but I can't go with you. I'm going to go and take a chance on someone else who's proven somewhere else, but not here. By the way, this is one of the biggest clubs in the world, by the way, and it is different here. But we've got someone who's in the building, who's doing well.

47:50Everything seems to be going in the right direction, but we're going to go away from that? No. Yeah, I think it depends on who's available as well, though. That's the thing. And right now, there are not a lot of top managers that you would go, all right, you know what? He's definitely a shoo-in. Unless it's Enrique. You know, if Enrique comes available. Yeah, maybe there's a Luis Enrique, maybe, yeah. I get it. But there ain't going to be too many more names like that that you're going to be plucking from the sky that's gettable that you can get and go and get. And he's actually, you can give you that guarantee.

48:19Even him, he ain't going to be able to guarantee anything either. He's doing great. He's been brilliant. He's been fantastic at Barca. Great at PSG. Don't get me wrong. I love him. Still not a guarantee. Do you know what I mean? Everyone thought Jose Mourinho was going to be a guarantee. I mean, if you stayed with him, I think it would have been. But you guys... If, but, and maybes, Joel. If, but, and maybes. I have more confidence in Ineos doing the recruitment for Michael Carrick than I ever would have done with Edward Wood doing the recruitment. 100 % agree. All right, guys, I want to move it on to one of the maddest things I've ever seen in football.

48:55That's right, the AFCON final between Senegal and Morocco. Senegal ended up winning the game 1-0, but controversy is not even the word. Rio, have you ever seen anything like that in football, yes or no? I don't think so. No, not a game of that magnitude, not a game of that size, a final, AFCON final. Everything's at risk. Like, African football was at risk. African football's credibility was at risk the moment the Senegal team went down that tunnel, right? Whether they were right or wrong in their beliefs, they thought they were being cheated or whatever, right? To walk off a pitch like that based on the decision that's being made ain't going to look right.

49:38But Sadio Mane They saved African football. Not Senegalese football. He saved African football. Because he went and got his team down from out of that tunnel and said, listen, guys, win or lose, you've got to come out and play, man. The game deserves, the game demands, the tournament demands, the African football demands that we go out and play, win or lose. And then the gods were on their side after that and they managed to win the game. But it was just a... I liked Sadio Mane before. We had him on a Rio Meets episode. If you haven't seen it, go and watch it. I liked him. yeah this load here at the afcon has made me just absolutely love him because he's as a human and as a footballer but more more probably as a human how he spoke in that interview but also his actions on the but you know how difficult that is in that moment in the heat of the moment to remain calm and composed to go and drag your team out of the tunnel and and the responsibilities all on your shoulders that you could lose still like and there'll be people saying well why'd you go out and play should have abandoned the game and blah blah but he went on his true beliefs took a bit of advice from some people in the stadium and said you know what boys come on let's go and you have to say that was real leadership in the heat of the moment and that's what real leaders are about before i get your opinion steve i have to say first of all that senegal's goal in my opinion was a goal the hikimi they want to call it a shove that was like that was nothing that should have been a goal but i do have to say that i thought diof did foul the moroccan player you You know, so it might have to be honest.

51:06Yeah, I know we can go into all those details and stuff. That's fine. But I think it's the bigger picture is the tournament was actually a success. There were some great moments. And I think like, listen, there was some slander on this tournament before this tournament started. And I think you can see that this tournament matters. You can see people crying in and out of the stadium, players crying, so many comments on social media, the interactions like this. It went crazy. The WhatsApp groups last night were going nuts. this is the AFCON not the World Cup or the Euros it's the AFCON so this tournament matters man and like the next one I'm not missing the next one I can't I won't miss this time I couldn't for family reasons but this next one I'm going man definitely Steve what's your thoughts man well for starters after speaking to Uncle Pat a while ago I've always wanted to go to Senegal and watch a match Dakar Derby is meant to be off the charts for a mad game I've always wanted to go there so congratulations to Senegal.

52:03What is Brahim Diaz doing for that penalty? I thought he forced it. I thought he did it on purpose to make things equal because it was such a tame panenka. But then people said, no, no, no. No. But it took him 20, but you have to remember, the pressure that probably was on his back, right? It took him 20 minutes, almost 20 minutes for him to be able to take that penalty because there was so much commotion going on. This is what you don't do. Panenka it. Just drill it. I know what you're saying, yeah, but you only say that because he missed. What about all the other players that have Penenka than scored in big moments?

52:38But he ain't Zidane. He ain't Zidane. Yeah, so you've got to remember what it does. It does. You've got to know yourself. Joel, Joel, Joel, the best players in the world missed penalties. Baggio in the World Cup was the best player in the world missed. He didn't Penenka it though, did he? But that's probably the worst way to miss a penalty. But this is what we're saying. This is what the Estes are saying. It was like, it didn't really go up like a penneka as well. It kind of like just... Honestly, it was wank. Yeah. Yeah, crazy. Could you imagine what he's feeling now? He's getting his golden boot at the end of it, and he's into his.

53:14Honestly, yeah, I almost felt sorry for him, but it wasn't really his fault in general. But I look and I go, I think the referee in the Orio, yeah, was, there were one or two decisions where you thought, now, you know what, yeah, this is looking a bit mad at the moment. and on top of that the tactics that were being used by the home country beforehand no security for Senegal sneaking in to see their training sneaking in to see like being able to be able to see their tactics no the worst one the worst one Joel the worst one Joel the worst one the ball boys and security trying to get the towel off the man to stop the keeper getting the towel to dry his hands that is the most maddest thing we need explanations I'm going to get hold of someone in the Moroccan effort at some point I need answers that is a mad one for me what advantage are you getting not letting the goalkeeper have it that's part of the game all goalkeepers can have their own little glove bag and if they've got a little bit of spray for grip or a little towel it's theirs I've never seen a man try and rugby tackle someone for his towel it's nuts it's because it's all the mind games they know that they're just trying to rap with Mendy but they're forgetting that Mendy he's done this before you're talking about Champions League winner it went on for so long like it was it went way beyond like having a little bit of argy-bargy it went mental didn't it Yeah They need to look at that Mane's second half con Where does he sit In best African players ever?

54:33Right I've got a shortlist here I'm going to read you My shortlist out See if you agree With this shortlist And you can rank him After that Go on Didier Drogba's on the list Right? I think that's fair Yeah I think Mane's on that list I'm going to put Mo Salah on that list George Weyer As the only African player With a Ballon d 'Or In his house He's on that list Sammy Etu's on that list and as we were talking earlier nobody brought this guy's name up but for me he might be number one Yaya Toure that's my six is anyone getting into that six? I have to say what are we basing this on by the way? comments I want you guys to get involved the best African player ever who had the best career who had the best peak who's the greatest they're three different categories I reckon I'll go best peak, George Weyer.

55:27Best career, Samuel Eto 'o. Yes. Yes, Rio. Do you think George Weyer had a better peak than Mo Salah? Really? Bro. Yeah, bro. Come on, bro. The way he was moving back then. Ask the big dogs. Where? Mr. George? Nah, stop it. Where, man? I don't know, man. I think I... Drogba maybe Drogba's got longevity Mane's been around Mane's scored in Austria, Germany he's won trophies in them countries England with Senegal now as well he's like I believe he's done really well but obviously if you're it depends on the package if you're talking on and off the pitch Drogba and Mane have to be top one and two you know but if you're talking career wise it's got to be Eto 'o, George Ware and then maybe if I'm honest with you why Samir should get no love off anyone Eto 'o's career you cannot underestimate what my man done he won a treble in Barcelona and the next season went to Italy with Inter and won a treble again both of them teams a massive important cog in both of those teams like the guy was a joke he started at Real Madrid didn't he I think when he went to Mallorca smashed it at Mallorca then like mate his career was a joke became the highest player in the world at one point like he's won the afcon twice i think he did like ridiculous career don't ever underestimate samuel eto's career boy can't can't he's got the best career uh oh yeah before we go by the way you had one of the best afcon interviews that i've seen even though ghana weren't involved baby jet on rio meets honestly bro yeah i said to rio and george i said yo my friends are like messaging me because they're excited about the baby jet is a summer jian interview and it's just going off.

57:17And the reaction has been probably even bigger than what we expected, isn't it, Rio? Yeah, yeah. Definitely. And I think it's, again, it coincided with the AFCON and that generates a huge amount of interest. And it just shows you, again, the interest in African football is massive and his story, he's got a great story. He speaks well. And yeah, he went far better than what I anticipated. So yeah, shout out to Gian because he was nice enough to give a bit of his time. Yeah, man. Might see him at a World Cup. You never know. All right. That's it, guys. I've enjoyed that. Well done. Yeah, man. A lot to talk about today.

57:52Hopefully you guys have liked, shared, commented, subscribed, got involved because next week is the big one. Arsenal are going to put Manchester United in their place to show that Carrick he had a good game and it's just a manager bounce. But I'm looking forward to seeing you guys next week. What do you mean? There's no... What do you mean what if you don't? What if he doesn't? Well, then I guess we'll still be like four points clear or something like that, innit? I'm just saying, no dramas. But listen, guys, make sure you stay tuned. If you ain't seen the big Rio Meets interviews, go watch them now.

58:26Myself, Joel Baer, Stephen Housen, Rio Ferdinand, signing out. Peace.

58:49Hello, I'm Max Rushton. The World Cup is back and Football Weekly is going daily. If you want award-winning soccer coverage from a podcast that's been over-analyzing the game for more than 20 years and still hasn't run out of opinions or just repeats the same ones over and over again, this is where you'll find it. We'll be producing 33 daily episodes across the tournament, breaking down all the action, the results and, of course, the drama. Can the US make it out of the group stage and into the spotlight on the biggest stage? World Cup Daily. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch full episodes on YouTube.