Kaka On Neymar, Brazil’s World Cup Chances & Why Ancelotti is 'Perfect'

0:00Host unforgettable backyard barbecues with savings from Whole Foods Market. Get the good times going with made-in-house chicken or pork sausages and ready-to-cook kebabs for hassle-free flavor. Grab tasty flatbreads and their new balsamic chicken salad in the prepared foods department. Keep things fresh with organic red cherries, strawberries, and peaches at their peak. And stock up on bug sprays and sun care must-haves. Make your summer sizzle at Whole Foods Market. Can Brazil win the World Cup? Yes, I think so. Yeah. Now we have the proper coach for the situation, I think. So, Carlo can be the coach that can lead these guys to be a very, very strong group.

0:44To win the World Cup, you don't need good players. You need a strong team and strong group. This makes the difference. So, I think Carlo can be the leader that can build this kind of group. Yes, guys, welcome to Rio Needs. and this world cup we're out in la and airbnb have sorted us out with this incredible place we'll be bringing you the best conversations with the biggest names stay with me guys we'll see you next oh hey how you doing good to see you man come in good thank you very good yeah and you Gym this morning again? Gym this morning, yes. Just a little bit. Running or in the gym? I try to do it every day.

1:32No, just gym today. So you do something, you can sit here. So you do something in the gym every day? I try to do. I love sports in general. So I try to practice something. So today, in these days, tennis, golf and gym. And football sometimes. Listen, man, I'm just really pleased to be able to sit and speak to you because we've seen each other around and stuff. but I've always thought, I don't want to bother him, man. And you're not someone who talks a lot. And I don't see someone who talks, especially in English, a lot in media. So why is that? I'm curious to know why. That's just my way and who I am.

2:13So I don't like to talk too much, really. And so I just do this when I think it's really, really nice. and I like the people, the interview and the purpose of the interview as well. So thank you very much for having me in your show. And also speaking another language, sometimes it's not too easy. My English is good, man. Yeah, it's okay, but sometimes I don't have the right vocabulary to say the word that I wanted to express. And also because of that, sometimes I don't speak too much. Well, to make you feel comfortable, I don't know hardly anything in Portuguese or anything, so I'm not going to test.

2:54Obrigado. Obrigado, that's it. Todo bem? That's it. That's all I know. Perfect. You know, take me back. Everyone kind of associates, like Brazil, with football. But equally, at times as well, they'll say football, and especially with footballers, poverty. And being a way out of poverty. They use football. It's been a great mechanism to get people out of that. What is your story? I wasn't a poor guy, but I was a medium class. So my father, he's an engineer. My mother, she's a teacher. So it's just a mid-class in Brazil. And when I started playing, I played because I loved football. And I still love.

3:44So I love to study football. I love to comment football. I love to play football. I love to watch football. So I love this game. And when I started playing, I saw that for those guys, it's the only chance that they had. So the motivation for that was incredible because it's the only chance. For me, even if I didn't have so much opportunities, I had a different opportunity as well to study and go to university and do something different. But the fact that I loved too much football, I said, no, I have to equal my motivation with them because I want to be a professional football player one day. So I tried so hard and at the end it was good.

4:33But my background was that. It's crazy because when I think about Kaka, and obviously when I found out that you agreed to do this, I was like, what first comes to mind when I think about you is obviously League, Brazil, football, Ballon d 'Or, World Cup winner, Champions League winner, AC Milan, but also faith, God. Is it true you had an accident as a young kid that really motivated you to really go and follow God? Yeah, I grew up with the Christian values, with my father and my mother always talking to me about God, giving me the values of the Christianity, the Bible and these kind of things.

5:23But when I was 18, I had this incredible accident in a swimming pool. So I hit my head on the swimming pool. On the bottom of the swimming pool. And my neck turned a little bit and I broke my and then I was able to get my neck. I had a very hard time to get my neck. It was really important that process for me because it happened in October of 2000. And then I stayed two months with the neck protector. And it was a really tough period because I was 18 years old. I wanted to be a professional football player. The doctor said he didn't know if I could play again or something like that. And then these two months were really important, but it wasn't because of that I started to believe.

6:23I believed it before because of the whole story of my family. But At that moment was a really important experience that I had with God. So two months later, I had the opportunity to play in the first team of São Paulo. So in an incredible way, because I was on the bench because of the injury. And then I started a competition in Brazil for the first team. And the coach asked for some players from the academy. And because I was on the bench, I went to the first team. Because the first team of the under 20 was playing. And because I was on the bench, I went to the... So it was easier to take you than the players that were playing.

7:09At the day, at the moment. So I went to the first team game. And I played really well. And the coach decided to keep me on the first team. and then I started to play as a professional player. So from October to January, two, three months, and things really changed. It was a for me, it's really an incredible miracle. It was really important to have the faith and my family with me, my parents, my father, my mother, my brother, helping me to understand every time the situations and bring me back to who I am. Back to Earth. Yeah, back to Earth. Because it's completely normal to see different things.

7:59It's a lot of things happening. So it's really important to have someone to bring you back to Earth. I spoke to the president of São Paulo and I said to him that I wanted to go. I wanted to have this experience in Europe. Was you confident you could go there and impose your style and be the guy and become what you became? Was it like, did you walk in and go, yeah, I'm Kakao, I can do this, it's easy? Or was you... No. No, I was really confident, but I wanted to have this experience to live in a different country, to stay with the best players. When I moved to Milan, in my position played Rui Costa and Rivaldo.

8:41So the president of São Paulo told me, you know who is playing in your position there? I said, yes, it's Rivaldo and Rui Costa. and he said, you are not going to play. And I said, it's okay. The worst thing that can happen, I'm going to learn a lot with these guys, playing every day with them, seeing them play. And so I want to go. And then when I arrived there, Ancelotti was the coach. And he started to give me the opportunity to play. And I just started to play and show what I could do. But I never thought in my head, I'll go there and I'll be the best. No, I just wanted to go and play and have fun.

9:27And your style of play was like, when I think about you, it's like elegant, speed, precision passing, great ball control, quick. How did you develop all of these elements of your game was it like natural or did you have to really work on all this stuff because some people say they're natural naturally gifted yeah i think uh some talent is natural but most of them i had to i had to work with so for the the speed the power most of those things i had to work hard and and when I moved from Sao Paulo to Milan, I was a raw player. So, with talent and a lot of motivation and effort and everything, but in Italy it was really important for me to understand football in a different way, to understand the game, to strategies and everything.

10:28And Ancelotti was really, really important in that moment because he also understood my quality and my style of game. And he changed it a little bit. When I say that, it's because when I arrived in Milan, Milan played 4-4-2. So with four defenders, four midfielders and two forwards. And when I arrived, he put me here, the right wing. But because also the fact that I didn't know a lot of tactics, I just go around. I wanted to play. Play free. And so most of the time I was here and I wasn't here. And for two, three games, he was shouting me the whole game. Come back, come back, stay here in the right.

11:21And after he understood that I liked to play free. And he changed it. So he played with Pirlo, Gattuso on the right, Seedorf on the left, and I'm here in the middle. He changed it for a diamond, and so he understood that that position will be better for me and for the team. What was it like? You just named them players, they're the names, man. I played with Pirlo and Seedorf in the games we play sometimes, now we're retired. and I'm standing there sometimes thinking, I wish I played with these guys. But how was that for a young Brazilian guy to turn up and you got those guys feeding you the ball?

11:59It's amazing. It's really amazing because of them, I grow a lot as a player. How would Perlo help you? How would he help Perlo? Perlo helping me with the Italian style, the idea of the game and how the vision that he had I was very excited about the game, but most of the time, it was because he could find me everywhere on the pitch. He had this vision of the field and everything that was happening. So I just had to move. And then sometimes he was looking towards this direction, and he gave me the ball there. He already saw everything, so it was really nice to have him as a teammate. Clarence, Gattuso with the gana and ambition and effort and dedication.

13:00And also the seniors guys, Maldini, Costa Curta, Cafu. When you arrive at a club, when you see those guys working really hard, and you have the respect, you have the DNA of the club, you understand a little bit what is the idea. So you just follow a good leader. And you're ace in Milan and you become hugely successful, you win so many trophies, and then the Ballon d 'Or. Like, was that always a dream? Or was it something that just crept up and you became that? Like, how did you get to that moment? I had a dream in my career, in my life as a young kid, to become a football player for Sao Paulo, to play for the first team, and to wear the Brazilian national team for once.

13:50That was my dream. So I wanted to be a Sao Paulo professional player. And if I play one game with the national team, I'm happy. So, of course, after that, the targets will change. But I never had this dream as a Yankee to be the best player of the world or to win the Ballon d 'Or. So it just happened. And so, of course, in 2005, 2006, everybody started to say that I was fighting for that. So, oh, maybe one day it could be a target. But I never had a target that I couldn't control. And Ballon d 'Or, the best player of the world or something like that, you cannot control. So I try always to control the process that I could have or take and then I leave the result towards God.

14:49It's crazy because you talk about that, not having that target. Who you was up against that year to win the Ballon d 'Or was Cristiano Ronaldo, who you later played with and I played with. That was his target. He was very different in that sense. and in that particular year, you kind of, I think you had double the votes and you won that by a long, a landslide. Talk me through about with Cristiano because it's interesting the mindset of people that can get to the Ballon d 'Or status and win that but could be very different like you guys are. Yeah, I played with Chris for four years in Madrid, amazing guy, he's incredible, really nice teammate and because also because we speak the same language portuguese we had this group of portuguese guys now me him marcelo peppy ricardo carvalho so we had a very good group of portuguese guys and yeah he he's he's got this mindset to beat the the the data his personal uh things and score more goals and everything.

15:58And it's really nice. I completely understand, respect. He works for that. This is his mindset. It's just a different way to think. For me, things just happening. And of course, I wanted to improve, to get better. But there are a lot of things that I couldn't control. So I just understand most of them and try to do my best. Did his attitude kind of rub off on other players at Madrid? The way he was so obsessed with working hard and having crazy kind of objectives? He was also an inspiration because when you see a player like him playing and working hard, it's really nice to have these kind of players in your group.

16:48and of course he he solved a lot of problems for us and when you have a player that can solve those kind of problems during the game he always wanted the ball he's incredible, he's amazing so it was really nice to have him as an inspiration Host unforgettable backyard barbecues with savings from Whole Foods Market Get the good times going with made-in-house chicken or pork sausages and ready-to-cook kebabs for hassle-free flavor. Grab tasty flatbreads and their new balsamic chicken salad in the prepared foods department. Keep things fresh with organic red cherries, strawberries, and peaches at their peak.

17:33And stock up on bug sprays and sun care must-haves. Make your summer sizzle at Whole Foods Market. Hi, this is Jonathan Fields, host of The Good Life Project. What if your home could welcome you at the door, energize your kitchen, and calm your bedroom all automatically? With Pura's family of smart diffusers, you can scent every space perfectly. Choose premium, clean fragrances, adjust the intensity, and set schedules right from your phone. Is whole home scenting designed for the way you live? Build your Pura system today at Pura.com slash whole home. The chat that's going to go on in the comment section is going to be crazy because a lot of them, if I don't ask you this, will go crazy.

18:182007, Old Trafford, Manchester United, you ripped us apart. What's your memories of that night? Man, for me it was one of, of course, the best goal that I scored in my career. Yeah? But yeah, the second goal. Yeah, it was crazy. Patrice and Gary Hines, they're still entangled together. So that goal for me is the most beautiful goal that I scored in my career. But that two games was incredible. So I scored two goals in the first game and we lost. It was amazing. We lost 3-2. So, I think Rooney scored in the last five minutes. He scored the goal. It was an incredible game. And then we went to Milan.

19:13And for us, in Italy, they called that game the perfect game. So, the one in Milan. La partita perfetta. The perfect game. We won 3-0 and for us it was incredible. Because after two years, we lost against Liverpool in Istanbul. And then after two years, we are coming back to the final again in Athens. So, beat Manchester United, one of the best teams in the world for us in the semi-final, was incredible. And that semi-final for me was really, really special. Because I scored two goals in England and one goal in Milan. So, three goals in the semi-final was amazing. Those two games, I realised then that there's another level or two to go before we can think about being a top team.

20:02Serious, because the way you guys played, Old Trafford, I thought you were outstanding. You were the best player easily. And what you did and the way you glided around the pitch. My friends always asked me after Rio, you were there live. What was he like? I was like, bro, you couldn't get near the guy. Too quick, right? But also when we went to San Siro, I didn't play, I was injured in San Siro, but I was on the bench watching. And to see the way you guys played first-hand, you talked about your connection with Perlo, but also Seedorf. Seedorf. His movement and his one-touch passing and awareness was just like, you and him again.

20:37I was like, okay, I think I'm doing okay, but there's levels to this game. And it made me go back to the drawing board to work again. did you feel like that about like you mentioned Rooney what was the feeling about Rooney from your dressing room? For us when we saw the lineup man they're incredible they're incredible and this is something that I think I take it personal is the how come if you take the in the right direction the competitiveness it's really nice it's really nice it makes you improve makes you be better. So when you see a lineup as you guys had in 2007, so man, I need to work really hard, I need to think a lot, I need to put all my effort to beat those guys, but I need to think how can I do to go through Rio and he's thinking how he can stop me so it will be a 90 minutes battle that we are trying to to beat each other so we need to improve we need to to get better so for us when we saw that lineup so man we need to play with everything that we can so and then you go to the final and you play against liverpool it's the same so it's really nice when you can play in a high level like that because it makes you improve a lot.

22:11Just talking about that, like attacking players, midfielders, etc. Who would you go and go, listen, they were the players that I had the best connection with in my career. And I'm going to name a couple of the players that you played with, by the way. You had like Shevchenko, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Cristiano, Adriano, Rui Costa, Inzaghi, Crespo, Rivaldo, Benzema. I can keep going, man. Who out of them names do you go, that's when I felt that there was something between us. Those names are incredible. So I've been really blessed to play with these guys. The best player that I played with, it was Ronaldo.

22:49Phenomeno, R9. He was really, really incredible. Just the way that, it was the way that he thought, mixed to the quality to execute what he's thinking. He's thinking. So it was just amazing to see him playing. Sometimes I said, man, how could you think that? So then, of course, how can he execute too? But connection, I think Pirlo was one that I had a very good connection because of that I said. I just had to move. and sometimes I didn't have to call for the ball or do nothing, the ball just arrived. And with Seedorf, we had a very good connection too. What did you need as a number 10? Because I'm going to come on to that in a minute.

23:49Because number 10 position is a position that I think when you were playing, there was loads of 10s that were around, Rui Costa, Totti, etc. yourself and others. It's kind of going out of the game, well gone out of the game a little bit. But you as a 10, what did you want from the striker that made you better?

24:09I think it's this connection that we are talking about. Because he needs to understand the moment that he needs to go and give me the space to go. Sometimes he needs to give me the opportunity to give him the ball. And sometimes he needs to come to create the space for a 1-2. So I think this connection to understand the right moment with the right player, I think this makes the difference. Crispo was one of them, it's incredible. Of course, in Zagy with Tchirchenko… All of them are good movers, good movement. Always, always. To understand the moment that we need to go and create this space and create the possibility to receive the ball, and sometimes I need to come.

24:53And so the intelligence to play. So they need to be really smart, really intelligent, and it's really fast. So they need to think really fast. So this kind of connection makes the difference. We have a lot of young people that watch this show, listen to this show, young players as well. And you talk about connections with players. How do you actually build a connection? Is it just a natural thing that happens or is it work that goes in or is it communication off the pitch or what is it? I think it's a mix of a few things. And these things that you nominated now, I think it's important. So communication outside the beat sometimes.

25:37Oh, look, I like the ball like this. Oh, I like to do this kind of things. Can we arrange the situation on the field? Yes. And sometimes just the connection during the game. But most of the time is the time that we spend with that guy. Not just, of course, on the pitch, but off the pitch. But the more time you have training, the more you create this kind of connection. Was there any strikers that were really demanding from you? It was like, I need this. Give me this. No. Inzaghi was really incredible because he had a very specific way to play and he wanted every time. Even if I didn't look, I knew that Inzaghi was in that position because he always asked for that kind of ball.

26:35He was always there for this kind of moment. So, but in not a bad way, in a very good way. Again, when the young players watch this and listen to this, I think they find it really interesting when we see them in the comments and stuff is to get an insight into how you develop parts of your game. Like, were there any key aspects in your game that you went, I remember I used to work a hell of a lot on that and then we saw it in games. One thing that was really important for me it was when I arrived in Italy in 2003, it's completely different from today that everybody knows everyone. So here in Europe everybody knows already the 13, 14 years old player in Brazil, in Africa, in Asia.

27:24Hendrik, we all knew him ages ago. So for me the first year was really nice, nobody knows me how I could play or my style. So it was an incredible year. So I did everything that I could, everything that I wanted to do on the field, I could do. Then the second year, everybody knows me already. So I had a very, very difficult six months. And then one day, Ancelotti called me in his place and he told me, look, you need to understand I was like, I don't want to play without the ball. I don't want to play without the ball. I want to play with the ball. And he told me, everybody knows you here now. So it's really easy to mark you.

28:17So you really need to understand how to play without the ball. And then I started to study how to play without the ball. So I got the games and I started to watch in which situation I could just move to create the space for my teammates or to create the space for me to receive the ball in a better position with nobody marking me. So this kind of advice for me was really important. Did you ever watch any players and think, I'm going to take that? Or was there any players that influenced you in that way at all? A lot. Yeah? I went to the World Cup in 2002. I was 20 years old. You beat us. You beat us.

29:05In my position was playing Ronaldinho, Rivaldo and Ronaldo. So I spent 50 days watching those guys training, playing, eating, sleeping. For me it was the best university. So I learned a lot from them. So what was you learning from those guys? Like in training, what was you seeing? What was going on? The most important thing for me was that they didn't have any fear to try. They tried, they tried, and of course they did a lot of mistakes, but they keep trying, keep trying, keep trying, keep trying. And if you score one goal in the 10 times that you try, you win the World Cup. So for me it was really important to understand that.

29:52Don't be afraid to try what you think. it's sometimes it's a very different play but try just take me back to that though because i mean all of our guys that listen ronaldo rivaldo and ronaldo and again at this point people are telling us in england that we're the golden generation and you've got caca on the bench and then these three guys these aliens playing the game and it's like these guys were a different planet to us like just take us back a little bit and that's some examples of like crazy stuff you might have The first time that I met them, it wasn't the last called up for the World Cup.

30:27When we started the pre-World Cup in Barcelona. So I flew from Sao Paulo to Barcelona. Then when I wake up in Barcelona, I was in the breakfast and just started to come these guys. So Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Roberto Carlos, Cafu, Lucio, Emerson. So, the first time that I was meeting those guys, so for me was, man, I was playing a video game with those guys yesterday in Brazil and now I'm sitting with them having Bragg Sparstiger and we are going to play a World Cup. So for me it was really nice to have them. Ronaldo was very important for me too because in 1994 he was the youngest in the national team.

31:19So I think he saw me in him in 1994, so he helped me with everything. Toothpaste or taking me to play golf in the free moment. So he was really special, But the whole team was really nice with me. But because of my position was midfield forward, those guys were the guys that I was trying to follow, to look and to learn from them.

31:55Ronaldinho, who was 22, I think, was at the World Cup. He's just amazing. Rivaldo, incredible. So, it was really nice, really nice. We had a very good team, very, very good team. In the dressing room of them guys, obviously we know the talent. Who ran the dressing room? Who were the leaders in that dressing room? Cafu was the captain. It's nice because I think in a football team or in a place that you have a team, you have a different type of leaders. So we had the Cafu, who was the captain, so it's a type of leader. We had the technical leader, that guy that when the game is really hard, he said, hey, give me the ball and I'll try to solve the problem.

32:42So I think Ronaldo was that guy, Ronaldinho was that guy too. And we had also the leaders of the changing room, the guys that tried to make everybody happy. And we had Denilson, do you remember? Oh, yeah, the left. Was he this guy? Yeah, he was this guy trying to play with everyone, makes everybody happy. He had skills, man. He was incredible. He was a really, really nice player. And of course, we had the coach, Philippon, was really good, really incredible in that World Cup. and so I think those guys were really the leader of the team in 2002. I was speaking to Thierry Henry yesterday and he was talking about in training sometimes you see more than actually in games.

33:36Is that the same when you see in the little games and stuff like that with these guys? Yes, it's the same because you don't have the pressure, you don't have the supporters shouting you or if you make any mistakes. So we are completely free. So during during the training session it was it was the best. Not megs and stuff like this. A lot. And in Brazil we had today a little bit less but at the time we had a training before the game we call Rachão. It's like a free game. So you divide two teams and coach, he doesn't participate on that, so we have two captains and they just pick the players. Goalkeepers play on the line, normal line, and you put someone on the goal.

34:29So it's like just playing around. So, it normally was before the game, the last training was that kind of training and in that moment you see incredible things. It's just playing for fun. That's when I see that, I think I would pay to watch this type of training with like Ronaldinho and Ronaldo, yourself and Rivaldo. No, it's crazy. And you know what? It's weird because we watch a lot of games now. And I was just, the game feels very much more like structured and it's about control and players like we're talking about now, there's not as many as those guys around today. Who who takes you back to those feelings now when you watch football?

35:14Is there any players? I love Neymar, so I think he brings me back a few that the memories of that period. Of course, Chris, Messi, Mbappé, Yamal now, I think he is one of them also. Just want to play and create and I think the football just changed. It's different now, it's a lot of information, a lot of data and it's just different. But I love to see those kind of players that sometimes I just want to create something different. I just want to play and of course, tactical is really important, strategy and everything, but sometimes I just want to see those guys having fun on the field. Just about Jamal, because I think he's like a magic player and I don't know where he's going to get to.

36:13I think he can decide where he gets to. But does he remind you of anybody? Do you look at him and think, oh, that looks like him? Because you mentioned Dan Ilsen. It made me think of your mouth straight away. Yeah, but I think Jamal, it's more, in my opinion, towards Neymar. More to look like the Neymar style, the best period. Yes, those players that you just want to sit and watch a game because you want to see what they can do, what they can create. You mentioned Neymar and I think sometimes you hear some people saying, this about Neymar maybe didn't get to the level he should have got to, but I can't understand that.

36:54I think he was amazing. I think he should have stayed at Barcelona, but I just still think he's had an amazing career. When I mention Neymar, what does that mean to you? Yeah, I love Neymar. So we play together in the national team. We are friends, so I just like him too much. So it's really hard for me to speak something bad about him. Even not bad, just to make any consideration. So if he's ready, if he's in a good shape, physical condition is good, I think he'll be very, very important for Brazil. So I wish we can see Neymar play more years in a good condition because it's really nice to see him playing.

37:46I told you, there are some players that you just want to sit and watch some games. He's playing for Santos now. And my team in Brazil is São Paulo. So I love to watch São Paulo. But I love to watch Neymar playing for Santos. So a lot of times during the week I'm sitting there just watching to see what he can do and supporting him. And these kind of players I think it's really important for football. What's his personality like? I mean we all can talk about his football, but not many get close like you have. What's he like as a guy around the squad and even just chilling? What is he as a person?

38:21No, he's a really nice guy. He's always supporting the team. He tries to help the young guys. and he's a very good teammate. So he understood his position now. It's really different from before and now he's much more mature. And he's really good, really nice. Now we're talking, I don't know, we've got there to Brazil. Can Brazil win the World Cup? Yes, I think so. Yeah? We have a very good team with very good players players playing the best clubs in Europe and being the protagonist of those clubs. So this means a lot. Now we have the proper coach for this situation, I think. So Carlo can be the coach that can lead these guys to be a very, very strong group.

39:15Because to win the markup, you don't need good players. You need a strong team and strong group. This makes the difference. So it's very intensive competition, very short, and you need to be very strong. So I think Carlo can be the leader that can build this kind of group. Behind a great leader like Ancelotti, who do you think are the other guys who can push this team and will be very important if you were to say maybe two or three players? Vini, I think. He's the protagonist of Real Madrid for a few years. He's been the best player in the world. So I think Vini can be that guy. Rafinha playing for Barcelona.

39:56A lot of responsibilities. So I think Rafinha can be that guy too. Casimiro is really important for his position, his influence, leadership. So the goalkeepers, Ederson now, Alisson is recovering. I hope he can be for the World Cup too. So, Marquinhos. I think these guys can lead the team, but in front, I think forward, Vinny, Rafinha. Mateus is playing really good too, I think he will be really important. Would that be your front three? If you were picking the front three? I like this, the style that I like to play is 4-2-3-1. So I think it's very balanced team. But of course, it depends on the players, not on my idea, it depends on the players and how they're going to be there.

40:52So I would play in that system. And what do you like about Cunha? Because he's obviously been in the Premier League and he's playing at my old club, Man United, and the fans love him. Give us some insight about Cunha that maybe we don't understand or see yet. For me, it's now how he understood the game. So he's working really hard, tactically. So sometimes he's doing the work that he, the dirty work, you know, to help the defenders and to help the defensive system. And also he can use his creativity. So he can bring his Brazilian style to improve and to do something really different during the game.

41:35But I think that the way that he understood that he needs to work hard for the team, I I think that's it. Good. And you know, just the last thing on Ancelotti, because you played under him in some of your best moments and for years at Milan, you said he was the best manager that you had. What makes him a great manager and why is he going to be so important for Brazil? Well, I think there is a different kind of leadership and based on something really, the concept that's really important. And the two opposite, it's the leadership based I think I'm interested in fear, that sometimes works because fear is a good motivation.

42:17But I think when you're leading by fear, you have a period of time for that. Two, three years in a football team. And there is the opposite, it's leading by love. So I think Ancelotti, he's leading by love. So he's like this father. He tries to make everybody happy. But when we talk about that, sometimes we forgot that he's really good to understand the game too. The tactics and the systems and to see the game and everything. He's really good. But he's really, really, really good to manage people. So I think that his best quality that makes a lot of difference Because when you go on the pitch and you play with confidence, you know that the coach is supporting you.

43:12That's really, really important. It makes the difference. And you see him, you see like a father. Is he coming up to you and saying, because this interests me a lot about management, like some managers treat the whole team the same? Or is he coming up to you and saying like, Kaka, you're the best. You're the best, man. You're going to win us the game. like these types of things that make you feel like superhuman. Yeah, he understands every personality. So for someone you need to shout and for someone you need to hug. So he understood that and I think that makes the difference. To treat everyone in a specific way, it's really hard and it's really sometimes you get tired because it's easier to say the same thing for everyone and take this.

44:03But when you have to treat everyone in a different way, it's more work, but at the end of the day, I think it's worth it. Big results. The last thing on Brazil. Can you just take me into what it feels like to go into a World Cup as a Brazil player with big expectations and the pressure that comes with that? I think we can talk the same way. I think it's the same way for you. The English pressure is wrong. No, for the big countries that you have this responsibility to win every time, it's this pressure that it's... If you take it to the right side, I think it's a very good thing. because that moves you, that pushes you to improve, to work hard, to put all your dedication, effort towards something that makes people really happy and of course for you will be amazing to win a game in a World Cup, play a World Cup, win a World Cup.

45:10So when I was standing on the field and singing the anthem, it was just incredible because there's this film about my whole life and looking back and seeing the moments that I was supporting Brazil at home and wishing that one day I could be there. And it's really special. It's amazing. Would the fans in Brazil prefer you to win or play with style? Prefer to win. If you can win, play with a good… It's a bonus. It's a bonus. But I think we prefer to win. In 1994, everybody says that Brazil… We didn't have a very good style, but it was perfect. We won after 24 years, I think. So it was great. So Romário Bebeto, Dunga, Norosilva, Tafarel.

46:13So, and that's perfect. So I think for us, the most important thing is to win. You know, you just mentioned his name. He's one of my favourite players, Romário. Romário. Oh my God, this guy, seriously. He's come out of now. He's got his podcasts, he's everywhere. like he's flying everywhere I didn't see him for many years and now he's everywhere I can't believe it but he was one of my favorites as a kid he's incredible amazing the way that he he played in Barcelona and PSB and of course for Brazil for Mario it's one of the best for sure just going back to style changes and the number 10 role because you're synonymous with the number 10 and it's kind of disappearing out of the game but what do you think about that and and how How did we get that back into the game?

46:58Because it's a role that made you dream and had imagination and fairytale with that role. I think there are a few things that changed the game. So the game now is much more intensive, you have much more dynamic. And that classic number 10 that you use it to have. So the number 10 that was a little bit waiting for the moment, the spaces. So I think we lost a little bit of that. But I would like to go to just another reflection to how the rules change the game most of the time. So now we have the goalkeeper playing a lot and also because the rules changed. So now the goalkeeper can play and start the action and the play from behind.

47:56And for me, the number 10, he lost a little bit of space when we changed the offside room. Because now we have a very short space in the middle. So you don't have any more that space for the number 10 to be there, to stay there alone. So it's really hard to have a number 10, like, I don't know, Maradona in that position. We had in Brazil a number 10, Alex, who played for Fernand Bachevoi. Oh, yeah, left foot. Incredible. So, also now, James, I think he was one of the last number 10, now James Rodriguez. It's really hard for them to find that space now, but I think it's also because of the rules.

48:42Now the defenders are really tight, really up, really compact. And it's a shame because it was really nice to see those. That's my favourite. Oh man, that position was... Maradona was my guy. Seriously. Do you watch English football at all? Yes, a lot. Which players excite you? Who do you look at and go, this is what I like? Well, I like to see the English player Palmer. I like to see him play. I like his style, the way that he plays.

49:16Manchester City, of course, I like it. It's very specific, very Pepys way. So you can see the identity of the team, the club. Of course, Haaland is doing amazing, a lot of goals. I like to watch Stéphane now. Stéphane is doing really good in Chelsea. So the Brazilians that are playing in England, Manchester United, it's always good to see. I love to watch Casimiro also because he's a very good friend. But you know, just on Parma, why Parma? What's it about him that you like? I like his style. the he's very football for him it's because for me football was really simple way to think I need to get the ball and take it to that place and I think Palmer had a little bit of that it's very simple for him it's just take the ball and go towards the pass or run let's go so I like the way that he plays just want to take you back to Real Madrid because we haven't spoken about that and it's like four years you spent there.

50:30How do you reflect on your time at Real Madrid? Well, for me, it was a very complete process because it's part of the personal things that I had, the professional things that I had, because I came from Milan to be the best player of the world. to play for Real Madrid. And if you Google today the worst acquisition of Real Madrid, I'll be the first with Hazard. So you'll see, if you Google that, you'll see Kaká and Hazard. But you know, I think you're being hard on yourself. No. Because of injuries. My problem in Madrid was first because of injury and second because of the coach's choice. Mourinho, he just preferred other players and was very good because the players that I can mention is amazing players.

51:31Ozil, Di Maria, Benzema, Cristiano, was me. Those players are fighting for one place, two places on the team. So most of the time he decided for other players. And that period for me was really important because I tried to do everything that I could. to show him that I could have more time to play, more continuity. And at the same time, I was this personal issue with identity, who I am. I'm the best player of the world or I'm one of the worst acquisitions of Real Madrid in the last years. So you were thinking this? I was thinking that because, and who I am. And then faith was really important for me at the period too, because I really understood that I'm not the best player in the world and I'm not the one of the worst acquisition of Romandid.

52:30I'm the son of God. My identity went towards the faith. I'm just the son of God. God loves me in every situation, in every moment. If I performed really well here in Milan, it was really good. It's just a period of my life that I could perform well and God blessed me here. And here, if I cannot perform in the best way, even if I'm doing the same thing that I did here, I cannot perform. I cannot control the result. What's happening? God's with me in this situation too and I'm blessed to be here as well. So that period, when I say complete, because every piece of my life, So emotionally, professionally, personal, everything was in this complex four years situation.

53:29For me it was incredible that period. And it's really nice for me to go there and see Florentino and see the players and everybody that works, still working in Madrid, and having the open door. and every time that they see me they say look here the club is yours it's really nice to to have you here and the day that I left from Madrid Florentino called me I went to his office and he told me look of course we didn't have the results that everybody wants but we are very happy that you played for us always very honest, professional, your integrity was really amazing. You never said bad things about the club or the coach or anything here.

54:25You could have easily just said the manager's a big problem and Mourinho was this, but you used calm. I never said that and you guys will never see me say bad things about that period and the club and coach and everything, but So for me, it was just a period that I had to have in my life, in my career. And if I'm very happy with who I am today, it's because I had that period. So it was incredible. It's a mature way to look at it, I suppose. But you know what? I'm sitting here talking to you and reminiscing about the old times and it's very nostalgic. But I'm sitting here saying, bro, do you ever get angry?

55:03Have you ever been angry? A few times on the pitch. Yes, but yes, I do sometimes, I'm angry. I had some moments on the field also that I was really angry. One of them was with Seba Verón. So we have this, it was really tough game. Every time that we played against Milan-Inter was tough because it was Brazil against Argentina and Milan against Inter. But it's just normal thing. It's just things that happen on the field. He's a good guy as well. He's a really nice guy. I like him. So we spent a few days together and these days it was really nice to be with him. Not just him, all the Argentinians and all the players that we played against each other.

55:57So different situations, different moments, but it's really nice now that we can stay together and change experience, talk to each other and having fun. It's really nice. I love it as well. Before we go, we've got five minutes left. Everyone who comes here, they give us their five-a-side team, the best players they played with. No goalkeepers. No goalkeepers. Goalkeepers don't count. So the best five players you played with in your career. It's really hard to say. With that list, it's really hard to say. But the first one, as I said, it's Ronaldo. Phenomen. for me is the the best one so I would say I mean it's start to think it's so Ronaldinho Ronaldo Ronaldo Cristiano Pirlo and Maldini that could be one of the best five that we've had serious that's phenomenal but just you know just So, Pirlo, Maldini.

57:03But you mean, yeah, I need to... No, no, it's fine, it's fine. So you've got Maldini at the back. I don't need to make a system. But you've got Maldini at the back. You've got Pirlo as well. Then you've got Ronaldinho, R9. And Cristiano. And Cristiano. Oh, I don't know if there's any better than that team in there. I don't know if there is. Okay. Listen, Kaka, you didn't disappoint, man. Listen, I really appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me here, man. It's amazing. Congratulations. in everything that you've done. It's amazing to see what is reinventing the yourselves.

57:36It's not easy when we retire. We look for something to do. And so congratulations. You're doing great, man. Thank you very much. Cheers, man. Amazing. Great.

58:29We'll be right back. Beckham, Laminio Mall, Ronaldinho, Thierry Henry, Son, Hyung-min, Alfonso Davies, Santee Jimenez. And between the posts, it's Grimace. Get one of nine collectible cups with a FIFA World Cup meal. At participating McDonald's for a limited time. While supplies last, all rights reserved. 2026 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 2026.