Michael Owen with his Ballon d’Or | with Discusses Kane, Mbappe and comparison to Rooney

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0:37You've been banging on for ages and ages to see this. To help you get out? No, you're not allowed to touch it unless you've won it. Are we putting it there? Wow. There it is. Now it's time to talk real proper football, isn't it? With that bad boy sitting there.

0:58There's a couple of things that might surprise you about Michael Owen, especially if you're looking back at the latter stages of his career and not thinking about when he won the Ballon d 'Or. I've known him since he was 15 and he's always fascinated me. But did you feel that you had that aura even at that age? Yeah. I remember we sat in an airport once, we were delayed for ages and I remember saying to you, since then I've wanted to interview you, and this is years ago. He's also a lot funnier than you might give him credit for. What he said is, I was better than Michael Owen in every department.

1:26Well, that's not true, is it? It's just plainly not true. You are a defender, so you are going to get marked down when it comes to getting that. I still think he was nuts. Even though he won the league? Mate, and?

1:43It's just a Michael Owen I know that exists. And the belief he had in himself is like nobody I've come across in football. I walked into R9, Figo, Zidane, Bex, Roberto Carlos, Raul. If you always think you're better than you are, you will catch up with that. And I saw Wazis got asked, you know, who's the best between me and him at 17, 18 the other day. And I did smile.

2:13So give this version of Michael Owen a listen. Ballon d 'Or, Michael. I don't know if you actually realise the significance of this. I didn't when I won it at all. I didn't really know what it was when I won it. What do you mean? It was only when I went to Madrid. They don't mention your name without saying Ballon d 'Or winner after it. But in England, no one's said anything. It's only got really popular, I think, in England in the last 15, 20 years or whatever. Since Ronaldo Messi started winning. Yeah. Kids now, it's unbelievable. People see it, feel it, want it, hear about it. but I don't think it was as big as it was back then.

2:50But just to actually explain this, and I put it into a bit of context, only the fourth Englishman to ever win the trophy, and you were 22 years old at the time. So Liam de Lapsage, you won this. Yeah. When you put it like that, it's crazy. The year before you won it, Figo and Zidane were one and two. Nobody has won it from England since you've won it. And those that have come closest since you did, It was Lampard who finished second in 2005. Steven Gerrard finished third. And Jubilin also finished third last year. I came fourth when I was 18 in it as well. This is what I'm saying. And that... Were you disappointed to come fourth then?

3:31No, I'm disappointed I'm not the youngest ever. R9 beat me by a couple of months. He's just beat me. I'm the second youngest ever. So, yeah. You see there? See when you just spoke like that? That's the Michael Owen eyes that I used to see. I mean, we were on the bench. or playing in snooker and table tennis in the 98 World Cup. That was the eyes I remembered then. Seriously, you just came back out of nowhere. I don't know, you probably don't know, but it just came back. That competitiveness. Yeah, that's my problem. Well, it's not my problem. That's what made me win things like that. You know, I had a mindset of an absolute winner, of being the best.

4:11I didn't want to be a foot... When someone asked me, if my dad said to me, what do you want to do when you get old when I was seven or eight? I said, I want to be the best player in the world. And I'm not like a footballer. That's a given. I'm going to be a professional footballer. I'm like, I'm going to be... Well, did you know you were going to be a footballer? No way. I mean, I could have told you that at seven or eight. Do you know what I mean? But that's irrelevant because you have to think like that. So every kid that makes it will always think like that. But you were thinking it was some real...

4:43It was just a question of how good you're going to be, whether you can be that good or whether you can, you know, just a Premier League player. I remember going to Lillyshaw and playing against Lillyshaw. And Lillyshaw is like the old training ground. It used to be the old place where all the best kids used to go and stay there for two years, wasn't it? And you were obviously one of the best kids that got in there. I didn't get in there, actually. And you was a year younger than me at school. And I remember you walking in to get your food and the whole place. You had an aura then. And you would have been 15 then, probably 14, 15.

5:15But did you feel that you had that aura even at that age? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, people will have only seen me, or remember me, let's say, in the later years when I'm getting worse and worse and worse and worse and worse. The agony for me is that nobody remembers, only a few people remember what I was like when I was 10 and 12 and 15 and 18 and maybe up to 22. I was past it and on the way down by sort of 21 or whatever. And that's the agony because was there another 18-year-old that was anywhere near me at 18? I was light years clear of anything in my age group, anything, and probably anything around my age group in England.

5:59And then got into the Liverpool team and won the Golden Boot at 17. I mean, forget that. Forget achievements and forget all the things. there will never ever be a two-time Golden Boot winner as a 17-year-old and an 18-year-old to win it twice in the Premier League. This is the Michael Owen I know that exists. That is great. That is so rare. That's rocking horse shit. But there will be no one that will ever do that. And you can bring the next kid and the next kid and the next kid and the next one that scores 10 goals and everyone's like, oh, it's the next Michael Owen. Or it's the next this and the next that.

6:35I mean, I was winning Golden Boots at 17. against like look at the strikers shira andy cole here right fowler sharing them loads of them and that's just english players zola you know and later on it would be young klinsman's probably and thierry henry came a bit later on things like rude van this will later on but there was there was great strikers now there's like what four five good strikers in the premier league compare the the eras like I have this debate with my mates all the time what era is better and strikers what are you thinking when you look now compared to to them just to answer your question plainly it's not even a comparison in terms of what the strikers were and are but that is because most teams now only play with one we were born to play in partnerships and then you'd have subs that would come on so every team would have three or four top strikers now you know they're such a dearth of them.

7:34You're lucky to have one great striker in your team. So it's different. Wide players are now inverted. It's changed. So you've got to bear that in mind. But in terms of trying to win a, you know, a golden boot or whatever, I mean, literally at the start of every season now, you could toss a coin between like two players, maybe three. Back in our day, you know, you having, as you've mentioned already, you know, people like Chris Sutton, Deion Dublin, Kevin Phillips, they weren't getting a sniff with England. Robbie Fowler, Andy Cole scoring 30 goals in the Premier League, weren't even getting close to England really.

8:12You've got Harry Kane, but he's not going to last forever. I like Ollie Watkins a lot. There's a couple of other players, but the 12th or the 14th best England striker then would be one of the best, one or two now. What about the strikers in the current game now? Who do you look at and go, I admire that? I like that. Well, I mean, Harry Kane, I think, is just lethal. I think he's a brilliant finisher. A brilliant finisher. I disagreed with him going to Germany. I was outspoken about that. I still think he was nuts. Even though he won the league? Mate, and?

8:53You're on the verge of being the all-time Premier League goalscorer. you've got kids that are all in school I mean I just couldn't see it I don't see it and if you're that desperate to win something then you know do another year and then go to a but to go and just win it's like if you go up to move to Celtic and win the league are you like oh yeah I changed that they win every year there's no great achievement in that great achievement would have been being the top goal scorer ever in the Premier League that would have been unbelievable and you could have won things along the way would you have rather won the europa league with spurs and done what you're saying yeah yeah absolutely yeah anyway we we digress harry kane i love him i think he is lethal he's got balls of steel under pressure penalty is a big thing now every you know there's penalties especially a couple of years ago when any flick off a hand was a handball penalties are happening so often you've gotta have a great penalty taker he is unbelievable uh he's got presence i do like him um i think he's been brilliant over the years who else do you know what ollie watkins is for me is so raw and when he's on when he's playing angry i actually really like him and i think he could be top class he just needs to you know now you know because he's he's you know not young anymore there's not that many that I look at and think, whoa, you know, he's unbelievable.

10:23I love Isak, yeah. Yeah, love Isak. Great finisher, calm, lovely presence, elegant. Like Harland is just a goal machine, isn't he? I think his game is pretty okay. I don't think it's great. His game, his hold-up play, his touch is... And I counter that with saying it's bloody hard to play for Man City in that position because everyone sits back, Everyone puts numbers behind the ball centrally. And it's virtually impossible, all this rubbish, that he doesn't touch the ball many times, but he always scores. That's his job, isn't it? That's his job. But it's impossible to touch the ball as a centre forward for Manchester City.

11:02Everyone just floods the edge of the box, sits deep, and doesn't give you any space. But he's lethal in front of goal and he's got attributes. You just can't teach, you can't buy, you can't. So he's obviously great as well. But there's very few now. There's very few. I mean, you look back and there was dozens of them. In terms of number nines currently, who would you go best number nine in the world right now?

11:25Well, is Zimbabwe a number nine? He's playing there now. He fought your goals last year, number nine. To me, he's the best in the world. Best footballer in the world? I think so, yeah. I think so. Because there's efficiency in the forwards. We spoke about Kane, Lewandowski as well. you know harland and whatever they're like you know they're never going to let you down they're always going to score plenty of goals but in big games in the most pressure he can take a game away from someone it's probably better you answering it but if you're a center half i don't think you're losing sleep if you're if you're going to mark xyz who i've just mentioned none of them are going to beat you for skill none of them are going to run away from you none of them are going to strike But Mbappe, he's got the ability to embarrass you.

12:20If he gets you out wide or he could, a bit of skill, his touch is brilliant, his raw pace, he can finish, he can take the game away. And somebody that can take a game away from you through brilliance has got to be the best. Was that you? What you just described there reminded me of you. Yeah, but I didn't have his touch. You weren't a skill man. No, I didn't have it. But you knew to get to goal quick. Yeah, I could rip a game away from anybody. but I didn't have the most amazing touch. I didn't have a skill. I couldn't do a step over. I was just raw and direct and could finish. I think you do yourself a disservice about your touch.

12:56Your touch wasn't a silky touch like a Bergkamp or like a Mbappe, but your touch was effective and it was efficient. My touch has to be very different to everybody else's because my touch has to be good when I'm running at full pelt and I was faster than most other people. So trying to have a touch, trying to have a control when you're running at faster speeds than anyone else is very difficult. My touch wasn't about coming off and linking play and getting a ball and like, you know, like a... Being graceful. Teddy Shering or Dennis Bergkamp. It wasn't a graceful touch. I didn't ever need that type of touch.

13:31It was about being able to control the ball with extreme speed. And that's the hardest thing of all, trying to keep it under control when you're doing something. Just on Mbappe, are you surprised how quickly he adapted in terms of the 40-odd goals that he'd scored last season? You know what it's like being there. No, I wasn't surprised. No, I mean, he is so good, you know, scoring hat-tricks in World Cups and things like that. I mean, like, not surprised. No, I just think he's brilliant. And I've been to Madrid. Obviously, you know, it's not that hard to adapt into a team that's got the ball 80 % of the time, virtually every game, apart from, you know, one or two games a season.

14:10I mean, you're literally getting fed the ball all the time. You're playing with great players in a great stadium. Everyone expects you to win. You know, it's virtually impossible not to score. You know, it's hard not to score when you're playing for Real Madrid. So I'm not surprised. I think he's absolute top of the tree personally. I think he's the best player in the world at the moment. Who do you think? Best player in the world? I'd have to go with you in terms of if you're going to go, everyone's on their best day. I think Mbappe's that guy. Yeah. We were looking at this season Ballon d 'Or winners, probably potentially Dembele or Lemmy and Yamaha, probably the two front runners for it.

14:48But I think if they're all on their best day right now, I'd probably still say it, and Bappe's the best player. He got 41 goals last season. I think if Real Madrid win the league last season and get far in the Champions League, he probably gets to Ballon d 'Or in that sense. But does the best player win the Ballon d 'Or?

15:08or is it just no not necessarily yeah like you can't be a mug and win it can you you don't get a bad Ballon d 'Or win it but I think there's been possibly cases when the 8th best player in the world can win it yeah I think you've got to be one of the very very elite but I don't but I don't think you know you have to be the best in the world you have to have a brilliant season you have to be one of the best in the world and your team has to be successful as well so you look at rodry winning it yeah where was you in that because i was vinicius junior i don't say rodry well shouldn't have won it well exactly i'm the same so i wasn't offended that rodry won no was in terms of like oh this this joke this this is a joke that the i mean and bear in mind the voting system is so thorough i mean it's captains it's managers it's you know actual players it's journal it's a whole variety of people and lots of votes go into it so you can have you know people that moan about the winner of it oh it's losing credibility because of this and that as i say i would have said 60 vinnie jr 40 roger i would have probably voted for vinnie jr but i wasn't offended at all and if the vast majority then i you know thought that then i was happy my thing is this is like i don't think keepers should be even like voted for they shouldn't be allowed to be voted for i want to be excited keepers don't they defend us as well for that yeah i'd actually say the same you've got to be so good to be a defender and win it i mean this kind of i won it didn't i'm saying that in front of you but in the main in the main it's easier to defend than it is to to create isn't it explain that please because i've done about that it's easier to spoil in many ways than to create isn't it you asked me to build this house i won't be able to do it but give me a few weeks i'll be able to knock it down do you know what i mean analogy that is well i can i can ruin things i can i can kick the ball into rosette and i the crap kid at school can do that now obviously i'm taking it to a stupid extreme but the the beauty the grace the skill of of of football is trying to score goals at the end of the day it's it's the goals that win games and of course you need a great defender blah blah but the hardest thing in the world is to score a goal is to beat players and have this vision and have this ability to score or doing what Messi does.

17:34I mean, you know, in this world, in your world, you were that player, the absolute elite. If you're talking about elite strikers, the Messis, the Ronaldos of this sort of last 15 years, you know, the likes of yourself was that then, but at the end of the day, you are a defender so you are going to get marked down when it comes to getting that. Do you not agree? I have to agree, yeah. You can be as good as you can ever be. Yeah, yeah. I agree with you. And you couldn't be much better than you were in your position. And I don't know whether I was going to say rightly so but it is harder to be an attacker than a defender overall, isn't it?

18:18I agree. I have to agree. Through gritty teeth but I agree 100%. Do you know what, I've got you here as a striker. or more on the craft of being a striker. How has it changed from when you were a 17-year-old flying onto the scene to where we are today for a striker? And where would you have fitted in today? I asked myself that question. I think I'd have to have been one of the wide players. Don't think I've got the stature or anything to be able to occupy two of you. I don't think I could really have done that. So I guess I would have played as one of the wider players, probably on the left now, because everyone's cutting in onto their good side.

18:59The worry I have for strikers nowadays is that I spent my life learning my trade. And that was with other people, playing with other people. You think of the partners back in the day. And you're always playing off people. And if he goes there, the defender will go there. And it's combinations. and then you might get a midfield runner or a wide player or whatever. Now, how are we going to reinvent this pairs? Like football, I think, is quite... Systematic. Yeah, and it goes in and out of fashion as well. And I've been waiting and waiting and waiting for teams to go back to having two up front. But now I'm starting to think, do you know what, will that ever happen?

19:44Have we seen the last of it? I hope not. but it again going back to your question it's you know I learnt my trade with a two when Gerard Houlié once asked me to play up front on my own I was like oh my word I'm bad I feel naked here I feel as if like no one's near me what am I supposed to am I supposed to hold it up and try to bring people into play on I'm really my strength I didn't really know what to do only because I'd never learnt that Pears is sadly feels like it's a well it's Certainly as a dying breed, it's just whether it can come back. I'm not sure whether the nail's in the coffin in many ways.

20:21I remember we sat in an airport once. We were delayed for ages, and I remember saying to you, and since then I've wanted to interview you. This is years ago. It's like three or four years ago. And I said to you, we were talking about, I think it was Rashford when he first came through, and he had Mbappe flying and everything. And I was going to you, where does 17 - and 18-year-old Michael Owen sit when you're talking about the best? Forget Lamin-Yemal now, because I think he's just an anomaly. He's out on his own right now. You might say different. you might say you're better than them as well.

20:47But where would you say in the last 10, 15 years of young the Haarlands, the Mbappes, the Rashford, 17, 18-year-old Michael Owen, at his full pump, where does he sit when they were all at their best? When they were all at 17, when we're comparing 17-year-olds. 17, 18, 19-year-olds coming through, doing their thing, and we were all saying, wow, look at these. They're scoring so many goals, playing at World Cups, top goal scorers in the prospective leagues. Yeah, I mean, I don't see anybody. Like, the next one always comes along. You mentioned Rashford. But, like, I haven't got the numbers to hand.

21:30But, you know, people, I don't even know, what did he score in his first season? Was he 18? Or did he play at 17 or 18? He probably scored, like, six goals or something. And everyone's saying, I'm like, it's like, where does that come from? What? Like, who's ever watched me at 17 and then watched these players when they're 18, 19 and compared me? It's like the only person you could possibly compare me to in our country is Wayne Rooney. And I saw Wazis got asked, you know, who's the best between me and him at 17, 18 the other day. And I did smile.

22:11But like, how can... Do you know what I mean? it's now people can watch me at 26 and say he's way better than him yeah yeah i'd you know i'd half a hamstring and everything else i mean look at me all you like at 26 in fact i you know i was embarrassed to have my name on my shirt when i was 26 and beyond yeah yeah i mean i won't i was gone I was gone by I mean I was way in decline I won that in decline I won that in massive decline I snapped my hamstring in two when I was 19 and between the age of seven years old and 19 I'm not sure there was a player on the planet there was a there was a few there was a few R9 he like 17 18 it was like oh my word I played against Thierry Henry at that age you know he was a late developer he wasn't you know at 17 18 I was I think I was 60 and he was 17 or 18 or whatever he's a year or two older than me but in those Europeans he wasn't you know doing what I was doing as I say at 17 I won the golden boot in the Premier League at 17 it will never be done again or an 18 two time as I say it's like and no one will ever you know I'm not here to sort of extol my virtues I mean I'm long gone it doesn't matter but no one remembers because everybody remembers me at 31, 32 and just like oh he links play and then he gets okay he's a good finisher but that's all I was I couldn't do anything else I couldn't do anything else Scholesy would get the ball when I was at United when I was 32 and I'd be like oh no I can see it my brain is telling me my instinct and everything and scoles he's looking at me and thinking run run and i know i would have scored i know i could have scored you know if i was the same as i was when i was 17 i'd be scoring these massive numbers that everyone's going now but i was like i can't i can't i'll snap my hamstring into i'll i'll so i've got to link it i've got to link it get the ball and i'll just get in the box and if the ball dropped i could still finish i could still finish now but i can't get there you put a ball to me now you know i played i played in vietnam a couple of days ago i scored twice in the first half yeah i can score i can like finishing is fine it's getting into those positions that's the killer but um but no at a young age then you know i i don't think you're looking in this country if you want comparisons wayne rooney is the only one that you could probably say are you looking at england now and going england's ability to produce a number nine now is quite worrying when you look beyond someone like Harry Kane and no disrespect to the guys that have got Liam De Laff who's gone to Chelsea but they still seem to be in their development years of and we're not sure what they're going to end up being Solanke as well done all right in his first year but still not sure what level he's going to get to and so when you look at the amount of the depth that we're lacking does that concern you we ought to be thankful that we've got someone like Harry Kane that can bang goals in left right and centre still but he's not going to last forever And then you think, right, who's going to take over that mantle and basically score virtually every time they play?

25:29And that's a worry. But that's a worry for everyone. But I just don't see lots and lots of strikers coming through. With that in mind, what do you think about our chances of the World Cup? I think we've done incredibly well to do what we've done in the last few years and get so deep in competitions. This summer, it's going to be red hot. I mean, everything's against us. Everything. our defence feels quite I'm a bit nervous about our defence we've had some great full backs I just don't see now our goalkeeper, our defence I don't see anything that's world class Trent's not world class? Yeah he is playing a certain way yeah it'll be interesting to see how this manager utilised him because our previous one didn't think so does he give us an edge Thomas Tuchel given that he has won the Champions League He's shown he can go to other countries and win trophies.

26:22Thomas Tuchel, yeah, he's won some big trophies. Absolutely. Does he give us more of an edge than Southgate? Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. But just touching on that, I mean, I've got nothing against Thomas Tuchel. Nothing. I think he's a very, very good manager and looks a really nice guy. But isn't international football like our country against your country? and we play every single week sometimes more than once a week in the league when any player any manager any physio any doctor anyone from anywhere can come and get a job and be you know elite in the premier league and we have the most incredible competition all year round of the best of the best playing in one league the one time it's now it's our country against your country and then you've got like a foreign manager of virtually every country in the world and then on the bench, they'll have all their foreign, the same nationality of coach and then the doctor and then this and then that.

27:32Isn't that just defeating the whole purpose of international football? This is about us, England. We've got the best coach, the best players, the best physio, the best doctor, the best masseurs, the best coach, the best everything. this is us against you and i just can't i can't it annoys me now that virtually every international team i think obviously there's a rule with footballers should be a rule if you're on that sheet if you're representing whatever country it might be and that team sheet goes in and whoever's on the bench whoever's in you know that should be the best of what we've got against the best of what you've got because it's not just the team out on the pitch it's the subs it's the manager they all play a part it's the physio it's it's everything and that is the that's the essence of international football is our best what we've got to give against what you've got to give and i just can't i just can't actually agree i actually agree i think i think it's happening around the world so i don't think england should go right we're going to be this because i think we'll end up penalizing ourselves and we'll be playing at a disadvantage maybe to other countries because they've all got they're picking the best about to go and manage for their country or be a physio or whatever but i think if fifa came in and went right we're going to make everything across the board you have to be the same nationality from that country then i think it would be it it could even make it even more patriotic absolutely so who would you give it to if it was english only now we could have had a lot of frank lampard

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30:31I wouldn't have minded going with Frank, Steven Gerrard. And do you know what? Eddie Howe. Eddie, well, yeah. Realistically, I don't think we would have got it, but I think we could have got Frank Lampard, definitely. And do you know what? That's part of it. So if we've not got a good manager at the time, that's our fault. Come on, let's book up. Produce one, yeah. Let's start producing one. At the minute, who cares? It's not in the FA's interest. It's not in anyone's. It's not really that important for us to have. Yeah, it makes them actually go out and have to really produce a coach or produce a manager.

31:05I didn't go into it. The hoops and the this and the that. And when I looked at the pathway and I thought about it, I just thought, do you know what? I can't see how you can really succeed. How is anyone going to succeed in coming out of football now with the way things are? If I, let's say, let's take me for example. If I went to get a job now, in football, try to be a manager, where would I get? I'd be like, with all due respect, I'd be my local team. I'd do well to get Chester, my local city. I'd do well to get that job. It's in the sixth or seventh tier of football. And now I'm trying to coach football that - You've never played.

31:48I've never played. It's a different sport almost. Winning second balls, full-back's not getting high and wide, centre-half's not splitting, number six coming to get the ball. I don't understand football. That's all I've known is playing that time. So I'm not, I don't know the league. I don't know the players. I don't know the style of play. I don't know. So I'm going to go and get a manager's job at, let's say, a conference team at best. And then I'm going to fail. And then everyone thinks you're a rubbish manager. And loads of them have done it. You know, I hit my hat off to Wayne Rooney for what he's done.

32:20I mean, if you give you or a Lampard or a Gerrard or a Rooney or that generation of player, or Paul Schultz or whoever was playing for England at that time, if you gave them a top job, it sounds stupid because obviously they've... But they'd have so much more chance of succeeding because they're straight into doing something that they know. Pep Guardiola, they get given it a ball, you know, straight... That's what he knows, Xavi. That's what they know. We're making our managers go and manage Plymouth Argyle and, you know, this team and that team and all that. They don't know. They don't know that football.

32:55I always say... Why are we doing it? We're killing our generation of players, a generation of brains, a generation of coaches. I looked at it and thought, sod that, sod that. And do you know what all that happens? This is kind of a tangent here. We keep winning. I love it, don't worry. We keep winning these youth tournaments. We've won it again, under-21s. Lee Carsley. Again. But the players now, I'm going back to the players. We won it two years, you know, four years. We retained it. We've won the under-19s a few years ago. Steve Cooper won it. We've won all kinds. 17s, I think, have won. We win youth competitions.

33:31And rather like our pathway for managers that I've just mentioned, we're quite clearly bringing the best players through. All of a sudden, we're beating Portugal and Spain and Germany and all these nations. And then all of a sudden, these guys go back and they go and play 50 games for Lisbon or Boa Vista or Leverkusen or whatever because they can get in these teams. Our team, let's say a Liverpool wide player is one of the stars, let's say Harvey Elliott. He's never going to play instead of Mo Salah, never in a million years. And where are you? Exactly. So all of a sudden now, these Portugal players, Germany players, they play 50 games, 100 games.

34:13They play 30 games in the Champions League. They're now 22, you know, three, four years on. And now we're buying them for 100 million. Our players were better than them three years ago. but they just it's impossible for them to get into the teams well listen there's a lot of food for thought there but you know I'm going to take you back right you talk about bursting on the scene and young players playing a load of games Laminia Mal he could have a chance of winning this this year he'd be in the running to win the Ballon d 'Or I should remind people that when you when you were these ages that you was winning the golden boot twice these ages you were going to world cups and scoring ridiculous goals and important goals that made you an iconic superstar immediately doing very similar things um how was that period for you as a young superstar and it almost just came like that it's meant everything's mentality mate you know that you know we've we've given what we're given and of course you know being quick was a huge asset for me but is that what set you apart you think your mentality obviously you had just the raw the raw attributes that you had the pace the eye for goal etc but you could probably go around the world and find a few people that had them and Elka had that like there's players that you could go there but then the mentality to really go above and beyond is that the thing that really put you yeah the more I talk to players and listen some players in the Premier League call me up and I really enjoyed speaking to them about certain things and and whatever the more and more people I meet the more more kids that want advice the more and more i just look at people and think you're just not mentally strong enough forget what you like physically and whatever it's everything is between your ears everything i mean my mrs laughs at me she says i'm the most delusional man in the world and delusion is actually an important thing if you always think you're better than you are You will catch up with that.

36:12You know, I could name so many players that were probably very, very average as kids. And now they're household names, record breakers, didn't have skill, didn't have pace, didn't have anything, but sheer bloody mindedness to get to the top. And you can think of two. And you're probably thinking the same people I'm thinking. Now... Name them, go on. No. But if you're that good, but you think you're that good, You will just keep believing it. You end up, and then you think you're better again. And this delusion of, I'm better than him, I'm better than him, I'm better than, you know. And even if you're not, you will end up being it if you've got this.

36:51Now, it's easy to say it. It's very hard to do it. But there's only two players I've ever seen that made me think, oh no. When I was growing up, like 15, 16, and watching R9, I was thinking, oh no. I think I'm like as good as it gets. I think I'm going to be world-class and blah, blah. And then I watch him and I think, oh no, I'm just going to be the Premier League player. And the other person is Thierry Omri. I've seen you say this, yeah. Like when he came to the Premier League, I thought I'm never going to win another golden boot again. And I was right. But everyone else, whether it was Shearer, whether it was Van Nistelrooy, I never watched anybody and thought, oh yeah you can do loads that I can't do.

37:39So when you came into England squad like we did we were both like I was like 18 you were 17 or whatever it was was you walking in there looking at like Teddy and Shearer and going I should be playing? Yeah.

37:57I was. And I did. I was and I did.

38:05That's like let me just think now. that's like but is that delusional because I did that's like Anueri coming in now who's actually and going to Arteta you need to move Saka somewhere else because I should be playing who's been their best player Saka scoring all their goals and convincingly in convincing the manager to remember you have to move him because I'm better that's how you're walking into the team just to put it into today's yeah but if he is better than him then And you say you've got to convince Arteta. I think you've got to convince yourself. Like, I knew. Like, I know. I knew. And it might have been that delusion thing that I mentioned.

38:45Yeah, yeah. Like, if you believe it, I don't need to tell Glenn Hoddle that I should be playing in this world. He should know. He should know. So I was sub in the first game against Tunisia. Yeah. And then sub in the second game against Romania, but came on with 15 minutes ago, scored, and then hit the post from like 20 something yards but then they score and then they beat us but I came on and helped well whatever scored and then of course then I played in the next game against Colombia we won kept my place Argentina and then from then on I was obviously in England so the game you came on was it Romania you come on I remember that's the game so we were on the bench together and I remember you sitting there and going he's got to get me on I will score you I remember you keep saying that it was me, you and Paul Mercer.

39:36Like, oh, me and Paul Mercer. Yeah, Mercer. And you were just like an agitated young kid. Oh, I was so frustrated. I told the gaffer, Glenn Hoddle, I couldn't believe, like, we were losing 1-0. And I was thinking, he might bring me on at half time. And then he never. And I'm like, oh, I'll give him five minutes then. And then 50 minutes, 55. And I'm like, and by the time, honestly, I don't think he brought me on until about, I don't know 75 or 72 or something he literally gave me 15 18 minutes or something I was like we're losing and I'm here I'll score like I didn't tell him I told you that it's like I was ringing home after because you used to get an allowance to ring home so it was like about £2 a minute then but he's like loads of money so I was thinking we've got an allowance I'll be right ringing my mates and half the call was like this guy he could win the World Cup for us because he's so convinced that he's the guy who should be on the pitch scoring goals.

40:34And that self-belief was one of the things that stayed with me with you that I just thought was just so different to anything. Because even though I was considered a top talent coming through, but I wasn't in there going, I was just thinking, just give me a couple of minutes here and there. Like, I'll come on for a bit. And then you was like, no, I should be starting and them guys need to be where I'm sat. It was just so different. I mean, the academy director used to say, I've never known a player with a shit filter like you. You can turn like absolute that into positive. I can turn good into good or bad into good.

41:05That's your mentality, isn't it? That's my mentality. And if you can train that in people, if I'm speaking to a young kid or whatever, if I can start training negatives into positives, when you get a ball in the warm-up and the ball bounces off your shin, what do you think when you're about to play? Oh my God, I've had a bad warm-up. Well, exactly. I used to think, well, that's my bad one out the way. I'm going to be on fire today. And if I killed it then, it's like, my touch is on fire today. I'm going to be on fire today. couldn't like you can't lose and I as I say I'm not I used to think that I just made you say that I said all of them coming I swear that me and the many videos was mad like superstitious coming after a warm-up and either me or Vido go you need to be honest there get on me today because I've got the worst woman ever I'm all over the gas I'll never forget and listen it takes all sorts and it's not me you know but I never forget and David James was exactly the same at this Johnny Wilkinson oh yeah England might be player Lions might be player I mean just the greatest the greatest kicker ever I was up at Newcastle he played for Newcastle Falcons we're sharing the same he came in to do this in our we had a big dome so middle of the winter he came in and placed like 20 balls across the whole pitch halfway line and he'd start on the first one and he'd knock it over, knock it over.

42:29And then let's say he missed the third one. He'd go and collect the balls, put them back. Start again. Yeah. And then he'd go bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. 19, miss one over here. Start. He wouldn't leave the place until he's done it all. I look at that and think, that's weak. You can't get over missing one. Now, don't get me wrong. Practice, practice, practice all you like. That's incredible. You know, keep practicing. But to start again and almost punish yourself for, I'd be like, don't do that. if I miss 10 chances the day before that's practice I'm going to Anfield I raise my game at Anfield I don't miss at Anfield that's my mentality it's like and how you can so it just shows you listen elite absolute elite Johnny Wilkinson legend absolute but did it totally the opposite to somebody else that can be elite I had a filter that could just wipe that off off a duck's back I'll still go and you know still go motor from the halfway line and finish yeah and that's how i that's that was my mentality talking about mentalities you have to have a strong mentality to go to real madrid trent alexander arnold's gone from liverpool same same moves that you made yeah um i think taking a bit of time to look at trent's move and just going to real madrid i'm fascinated to hear what it's like to walk into a real madrid dressing room full of superstars you've done exactly that as well.

43:55Probably a few more superstars when you went there. I'd say so. What's that like? I walked into R9, Figo, Zidane, Bex, Roberto Carlos, Raul, and I knew or I felt as if I need to gain their respect straight away. The first training session, I've never concentrated so much in my life. I wanted them to be able to pass me the ball, me to show I've got a good touch, I'm never going to lose it. Your ball is safe with me. And if they can't trust you, you know what it's like. It's easy when you're playing at home against the 15th team in the Premier League. You make mistakes. You take liberties and whatever.

44:38But when the shit hits the fan, when you're needing to win, when you're in a Champions League final, when you're playing against a proper team, when it's every sin you, you need to stretch to win this game. you need ultimate, ultimate trust, confidence in anybody. And that's what I thought. That's why, you know, you've played with players, you know, Scolese. Even if Scolese knows that you're putting him in the crap by giving him a ball, but you're in a bigger lumber, lots of people would think, I ain't taking one for you. And they won't even come and show. And you've got to like try to win a foul or try to win a throw in or something.

45:18someone like Paul Scholes will come and think no I'm capable give it to me give it to me I've got three men on but do you know what Zidane Zidane exactly and what you want to do is to be able to show these people that you're that type of person you're a get out you're a good finisher you're you know whatever it might be and I was just that was my first thing forget the fans forget the manager you achieved that they'll be they'll be impressed at some point I've got to get their respect and you achieved that yeah because you turned up as the bell and door winner yeah the year before absolutely yeah which I was going to say a minute ago one thing that winds me up is when people say how you know did you not were you not in awe when you walked in and it's like what

46:07walked in with that under my arm exactly you know there was only a couple of them in the dressing room yeah but you got to do that and yeah did I achieve it yeah I mean, I can't remember. The numbers, I think I started 20 games. I scored 18 goals. You know, it's a good contribution. I think I was the best in the league in terms of minutes per goals. I scored plenty. The thing is, Barca were bloody brilliant at that point. I mean, you know, they were brilliant. They battered us 3-0 at Camp Nou and then we beat them 4-2 at our place. Did you score? Have you seen the scorers that day? Go on. Etou, Ronaldinho, Raoul, R9, Zidane and Owen.

46:57Wow. Has there been a better day of scorers in one game? It's a good five of me. Yeah, that was pretty cool. Well, just going back to Trent, what did you think of the criticism you faced? Didn't like it. But I, yeah, I didn't like it, understand it, of course. or well we understand it because we live it and we've lived it all our life and we're in and around football but fans will never get it because they've got a badge there and till the day they die they will always support that badge and no matter what the club do they might do wrong and a lot of clubs do do wrong to their players and things like that they will never have a crossword against their club now it's our career it's our life and you know I go back to someone like Jack Grealish the Aston Villa vans booed him and are quite nasty actually to this day against him and I couldn't believe when I was watching him play against him and it made me feel physically sick here's a kid that's been there since he was a baby like seven or something come through the ranks they were rubbish they were in the championship he's literally I don't care dragged them up dragged up single-handedly literally if ever there's been a one-man team in the last 15 years in football I would say it was it was him at Villa.

48:17Dragged him up single-handedly, capped in the team, 100 million. He's gone... If he didn't do that, if he said no to Manchester City, what would our game be like? What would football be like? It'd be rubbish. Everyone moans about that it's for money all the time. Here's people that actually show a bit of something. A bit of risk. A bit of risk. new language, new teammates, new country, new food, new weather, new everything. It's like a big risk. He could have sat there and so could have Jack Grier and so could have you and so could have loads of people. But imagine what the game would be like if we didn't have these people that actually try to make something of their lives.

49:00I'm having a conversation with you about playing for Real Madrid with some of the great players. I've had an experience in my life, so have my family and whatever, that when I came back to the England squad and saw Carroll when the first people picked up the fans what's it like oh my word what's it like playing with Zidane and all these players well you can't have you know life's about experiences as well exactly of course it is and we're just people that are trying to do the best we can do but I get it because I understand a fan's mentality I've loved chatting to you like this actually with a Ballon d 'Or just sitting there nicely quiet isn't it but I think also a big part of me I wanted to do is for people to see this idea so i think it's important i think we're both people as well i think this in the punditry world criticism comes with it comes with the territory and i think we're both big enough and ugly enough to understand that speak for yourself you say ugly enough yeah speak for yourself but do you think like tv michael owen is the same guy that i know when i'm chatting to in the green room do you think it's a true reflection of like who you are I don't know I'm a little bit still a little bit confused in terms of you know how the world sees me because you've got kids I've got kids you know my kids always say to me dad everyone says you're boring or miserable or whatever everyone else has got these dead funny things are there a pundit you know dead funny memes or whatever they say but all your stuff everyone just says you're boring and you know makes up these false quotes of yours that you're supposed to have said and things like that it's like I know but I just can't be bothered you know it's just what am i going to do i'm 45 you know people have made their your kids well just out of curiosity who's their favorite pundit your kids roy keen is he yeah yeah nice yeah they i think they love i think most people love that sort of abrasive yeah like that yeah i think they all all love him there's emotion and there's emotion when he's talking yeah i think it appeals bit of anger it appeals to a lot of people i mean from my point of view that's not my style so you know on the tv we've worked together for years and years and i enjoyed actually breaking down you know in in my case a goal you know what made that what was he thinking what were his options why was it good why was it bad um give a different angle on something and for me just to you know to come in and say oh if he was in my team i would have punched him in the head probably doesn't you know roy keen can say it because he probably would have but i wouldn't have for one and two my style is probably trying to be a little bit more informative or a little bit more insightful i guess try to explain why and how i look at punditry like teams now and it's took me years into but i've always after a couple years doing it i've always thought like it's like playing like you talk about partnerships up front yeah you're only as good as your partners yeah and they don't have to be the best player in the world.

51:53No. But it's how it's... But it's combinations of how your personalities and the way you see things match up. And I think when you get that right, I think you see the best of individuals and best of people. Agreed. See, I love working with Scolzi. Scolzi does everything wrong in TV. Scolzi sits there like that. He looks not interested. His shirt's hanging out and he's just like... And he's probably not bothered. But it's like everything he does is... But he comes out with... he comes out with and when you're watching a game with Scolese he sees it he sees it and he knows it and he's so knowledgeable but you're always on edge as well not on edge you don't know what he's going to say I think sometimes he can say something really really you know punchy and whatever I think he's brilliant do you know what I think about Scolese like what you're just saying you don't know what he's going to say Scolese's not a big talker he'll talk to you when you're around him and everything right but when you're watching a game he doesn't really say loads there's other people probably like me i'm screaming you should be a comment i'm screaming through the whole game yeah so you know roughly what i'm going to say the difference is goals he's just you ain't got a clear and all suddenly goes bang he's i think he's a very good pundit skills i do as well i do so just to finish you wouldn't consider yourself boring then there's more to you than to mix the eye what do you think i i wouldn't consider you boring especially when they've had a drink.

53:15I'm quite happy with where I am. I don't really want to go out on air thinking, I've got to think of another joke to tell today. That's not for me. Listen, let's move on now and finally, we're going to get to United strikers. It's been a problem for my United strikers. What did you make of them last season? You put Joe Bloggs, average player, into Liverpool's team now and you just watch him. You will go, that you buy him for a million quid you'll be able to sell him for 30 i'm not selling saying he's going to be world world clap but you'd sell him for 30 million in a few years it's an environment it's it's it's the whole thing and i just think that if you it's easy to say oh yeah but they keep buying bad players but do they yeah there will be a lot of them but not all of them were bad you know when they bought dimaria and millions of them they weren't all bad and all the time when they leave they're all bloody good again the environment can kill talent absolutely and i just don't know where a spark is going to come to actually it will come eventually man united will win the league in 10 years won't they i mean nobody could look at you and say no chance i think it could be in four years it could be in eight it could be i was just someone today for lunch and they said 20 years oh it can't take that long they're too big and too can't take that long i mean it's already been how long 12 12 years i mean harry kane should have should have signal you know a year ago a couple of years ago that that should have happened i think they could have got him i think that's the biggest mistake i think they've made in the last 10 years yeah well i think if they go and play the number that Spurs want, they would have got him.

55:05And if we're to believe that, then I think if it didn't happen because of a couple of million here or there, I think it was a terrible decision. I honestly think, I say this and I'm convinced, if United had gone and got Declan Rice and Harry Kane in that window, may United have been a different place now because again, it goes back to the environment. Those two drive an environment, I think together. You do need an environment. And I think you've got two players who are salt-of-the-earth people, top pros. Yeah. Who's there at the moment? I mean, I can imagine Harry Maguire would be quite vocal and quite, you know, a leader, but...

55:35Bruno as well. Yeah. I think he'll lead in a different way. But if you look at your team and the team before that, imagine going into that Manchester United team with Ince and Keane or whatever, and McClare and Bruce and Pallister and Mark Hughes. Men, men. You'd be petrified going into them. And then look at the team that you were a huge part of. I mean, the leaders in there. That's a generation. That's your Nev and your Scolese and your Giggsie and you coming into it. And even then players, like younger players that come from it. Like Rooney, he was a leader. But they can then flourish. I mean, look what Liverpool had.

56:19They got brilliant with the likes of Henderson and Milner and players like that. And now they've got Virgil van Dijk. and you know but there's a there's a culture of setting a standard every day there at the football club that they all have to adhere to and it's like that environment I think is so crucial but Man United have to get to a point of creating that who's the manager's got to cultivate that environment for those players to live and breathe in every day where you know it's like a training when you come to Man United training was harder than matches World War 3 on a Friday before a game kicking lumps out of each other unbelievable olders versus youngers it's like a mad game It'd ruin your whole day if you didn't win that game.

56:57And it's only when you move around different clubs you realise that that's not the norm. That's elite mentality. That's just winners. How many times did the gaffer, Fergie, have to stop it? Every Friday, the five-a-side, and it was supposed to be 10 minutes each way. I can't remember one finishing. Because if somebody's losing by two goals, right, well, we're not going to win now. Let's just go and smash the life out of them. Everyone just smashed the life out of each other. It's like, there's going to be no players left for tomorrow. I'm not a fan of, you know, people biting someone on the pitch, like Suarez or Rooney getting so mad that he screams at a ref or kicks somebody or stamps on someone.

57:36But I'm not condoning that. But that on the edge is, that's, do you know what I mean? It's like, it's in training. It was happening all the time. Arguments every day. Every time. Like Vidic used to sit by me. If he wasn't pouring with blood and if I wasn't trying to hold him from trying to kill somebody. If they lost, he was just ears with steam coming out of his ears. It's like, Vita, doesn't matter. It's all right. Don't worry. There's a game tomorrow. Forget about it. He wouldn't talk to someone for three or four days. I know. If they lost or it was their fault for a goal or something. It's like people think it's just going over the edge, but you can't turn these things on and off.

58:15When I was 18, if you walked in here, every single door would have a hole in it. I would have punched a hole in it. if I had lost a training game, I would be that mad that I couldn't sort of breathe. I would be coming in and my dad would say, how did training go? I'd be like, we lost and I'd be like, I'd be that wild. That like, and I just couldn't help myself through anger and I would just have to go up to my room and just whack something or do something because I would be that angry and it sounds really wrong but that's like, that's why these people it's weird Wazza was like that I went to Wazza's house and he was renting this house by the way it wasn't even his house there was holes in the wall in the doors and I was like you should have come to my house there's a level where you have to get to playing right on the edge but without just going over and if you're not if you're just nicey-nicey I've been there mate I've trained with teams that are just not winners you know I've gone from elite teams and I've played for lesser teams it's the difference in training what's that feeling like for you when you've been at an elite environment and then you go to something that isn't well I've said before I mean I sort of split my career into two you know almost Liverpool and maybe Madrid and then afterwards because I just wasn't the same not that I didn't like I loved you and the lads and whatever and physically you was inhibited I'm not me you know what I was when I was 18 and you know what I was when I was 30 it's like I was half embarrassed I'm coming out with flipping to these big stadiums St James' Park Old Trafford with my name on the back it's like can I not just change my name and just think of something like call me something else don't want people to remember me like this still good still scoring but I'm not what I was it's killing me but it's like what can you do it's like agony in your head it must have been honest yeah well you know it with all due respect you had a you had an amazing career but you went in the last year when you went to QPR embarrassing I don't even remember that year exactly you get it out of your head don't you and you hope that everybody forgets about it when people mention it now I swear down your heart sinks I'm thinking I'm thinking of you now because you've had a longer time doing it I had 8 years of that 10 years of that I had like 8 months if that's 6 months and I'm going when people mention QPR it's like I must blush like you never know go red and it's nothing to do with the team yeah it's no disrespect to QPR it's me it's you I was horrendous and this is my point this is me but for 10 times longer than you had it for you had it for 8 months I had it for 8 years when I'm thinking wow that's nuts I don't like get this I was looking at the clock half my career thinking only 20 minutes and I could still score I could still play well but I wasn't I couldn't rip a team's heart out anymore I could just finish if I get the opportunity I'm relying on everyone else now whereas I used to be able to don't need anyone else just give me the ball and I'll do it and that change of mentality I didn't retire because of my body I still played in a game the other day I retired because my mind was about to explode and I couldn't have it anymore that I was just a Premier League player Just before we finish I've got two more things one I'll need you to have a little think in the back of your mind about your five-a-side team I think Bex's team I think is the best so far with all the Galacticos but you can compete with that but before that Robbie Fowler what he said is I was better than Michael Owen in every department bar one, which was pace.

1:01:50Well, that's not true, is it? It's just plainly not true. Listen, I love Robbie. He was incredible. I grew up with his poster on my wall. Love him. But, you know, I played for Liverpool with him. Gerard Houliot picked me every time. I played for England under Hoddle and Keegan. There was not one manager that didn't pick me ahead of him. So I don't need to have a debate or have the argument. Okay, that's it. So I don't need to debate. Say no more. Just lastly, 17, 18-year-old prime Michael Owen, any football now, and you're going, okay, I can see, even now or before, you go 17, 18, they were better than my 17, 18.

1:02:36R9.

1:02:40Yamal.

1:02:52i love it i love it messi ronaldo well i guess messi was but i can't remember what he was like at something was he playing at something yeah but he weren't doing he hadn't he hadn't done what you How old was he when he won that for the first time?

1:03:11Cristiano Ronaldo was not, was he? He was still very raw at that age. Yeah, they didn't have the end product that you were producing at that point. They hadn't had golden boots at that stage, by the way. No. All of my things that I've ever won, if you look at what I've won in my life, Ballon d 'Ors, golden boots, League Cup medals, FA Cups, and whatever, The only thing that I did was the Premier League that I didn't. But every other thing, every other award, whether it even be outside of football, like BBC Sports Personality of the Year at 18 and things like that, everything was done. You know, I've won virtually everything in two years, you know, at 17 and 18, really.

1:03:53Well, listen, man, the Ballon d 'Or is there. This interview has been everything I've wanted it to be, to be honest with you. Sitting here, speaking to you, the Michael Owen that I know, and I want everyone to see and I'm sure they've got everything and more but thanks for bringing the bad boy out. Really appreciate it and I'll see you around, man. Appreciate it. Brilliant. Thank you.

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