Ollie Watkins: That Semi-Final Goal Changed my Career Forever

0:00Just take me back to that semi-final goal, man. Because they're superstar players who have done amazing things in their careers and are going to be legends for the game forever. Just never, ever done what you've done. There was a few times in training I linked up well with Cole. Whenever I ran, he'd just find me. It was just easy. I didn't have to do anything. He'd just put it on the plate. When I saw that he was coming on with me, I remember I was warming up with him and I said to Lewis Dunk and Dean Henderson, I said, I'm going to score. Welcome to Rio Meats. Before I head off to the World Cup in the States, I'm doing a bit of prep.

0:32And I'm going to be speaking to some of the biggest names in the game. An Airbnb have sorted us out with another brilliant stay. So, let's see who I'm welcoming onto the pod next.

0:51Yes, Oli, what's happening? All good, man. How you doing? You all right? Nice to see you. How are you? You all right? Yeah, all good, man. Come here, man. Nice there, innit? Yeah, it's nice, man. There you go, you're in there. Nice one. How you been? All good? All good. Fit, fighting fit? Yeah, feeling healthy. Yeah, that's good man. You look healthy, you look like you've got a tan bro. Been out in the sun, it's been sunny enough for a few days. Nah, we had a little break before, I didn't go away with the Nationals so it's half of France with the families. Whereabouts you going? Oh, it's a can.

1:23Oh, that's nice there isn't it? Yeah, it's my spot. So what do you do to chill now? What do the players do when they're just like relaxing outside of the game? Like for me I don't really have I've started to play more golf. Have you? I went to play golf yesterday. I'm horrendous. It's more the fact the socials like you're out for four or five hours and you're not thinking about anything. So I don't know but I don't feel like you've got enough time to do stuff. The schedule is just relentless. Do you know what it's weird? It's mad because obviously when we agreed for the interview to go ahead and I I was looking at your journey, it's my journey, isn't it, really?

1:59Like from League Two to scoring in a semi-final for England. What's that like, man? Yeah, and you know what? I think for me, in this stage of my career, when I'm walking out in the tunnel, everyone deals with stuff like everyone reacts to things differently and has some people allowed in the tunnel. I kind of try and think back to I was playing in non-league. and so you're that reflective at that moment well like little things like we play in the Europa League and I was looking down at like the Europa League on the on the carpet and thinking like you know like enjoy it because you've come so far I'm playing in Europa League semi-finals playing in the Champions League um their experiences that I've I always strived for when I was younger and now I've done it so just enjoy it more than you know put pressure on yourself so I'll just take it back to like when you're playing for Exeter like what what was your genuine like aim when you were breaking into the first team there?

2:55Was you looking at England and thinking oh England? No never, never. So I was always just I was trying to better myself and and then just get a move to somewhere else you know. A lot of the players that I played with were experienced players and older players and they'd already played the game so for like Clinton Morrison and Matt Oakley players like that so I would hear their experiences of what they've achieved and playing for their country I'd always aspired to do that but I never thought too far ahead so I was always looking to just try and progress and then maybe get a move to somewhere bigger and then use it as a stepping stone and you started playing widely I'm right when I talked to the research guys and that in the youth team I kind of always switched I'd always drift out to the wing because I found the ball was always going there so I was just like I wanted to I remember my manager Paul Tisdale he used to say like you can't just stand up on the wing and just try and take people on like it's what if the ball doesn't come like you need to affect the game and then that's when he started to move me more central and I found like that was good for me because I was always involved in the game and wasn't just like waiting for things to happen That's why you're a good mover that's why you move well across the line then Yeah I think so and sometimes we start games now and I need to, I need to like, I feel like I need to be involved.

4:21So when the games are very slow and stuff like that, I don't feel like it helps me because you've got to be very patient. I may end up coming out of my position and then the ball goes across the face of the box and I'm not there. But when teams are going man for man and I'm like fighting with the centre-back and there's space for me to run, I feel like that's when I'm at my best. I don't know, it's like, so you couldn't sit there and be like a Haaland then. You could just sit there and go, I'm going to take two touches in the half and I'm going to wait and be patient. You have to go on and you get starved.

4:57Sometimes, like, so what he does is that, that's very difficult to do because you have to be patient and obviously you have to trust that your teammates are going to put the ball there. yeah um like i've watched like old clips of like when united used to play for united and stuff and like van nisteroy whenever the ball's going wide like the ball's always getting crossed whereas now we're kind of told to like if it's not on then come back and make passes and stuff like that so there can be opportunities where or times and a half where i may not get a shot which for a striker you're thinking like you should be at least having three or four shots a game but if you're playing against a low block team then it is very difficult.

5:39Do you ever look back and think about, I'm going to take you back to another team, Brentford and that front three that you guys had with BMW they were called. What's your automatic thoughts when you think, you smile straight away when you see that? No, just because it was such a good time, we, like Brian and Saeed knew of each other, two French boys, like Saeed couldn't speak much English and Brian was kind of like the the gel in between but we just had like such a good connection like I knew that Saeed would do all the tricks and stuff like that I just leave him to it but he would always I always knew what he was gonna do so after the four or five step overs I knew what he was gonna do he's gonna play a one-two or he's gonna an in swing cross to me so and Brian was always so unselfish like whenever we're around the box or there's times where he could maybe shoot he would always look to cross it and set me up.

6:34So, yeah, it was an enjoyable time and it's nice to see that, yeah, they've had good careers and they're successful still. I don't know if it was around that time or even before that where, probably when you left, or when you was leaving Exeter, where you was like, that's the resident number nine. Like, when was it you actually thought in your head, that's my position, that's where I'm going to play in that? Because you said you were being swapped over as a kid. Yeah, so we worked on it a lot in training. Thomas Frank was really good with that and he just said to me whenever we're going into the box, running between both centre-backs, and I want the number eight or the winger, whoever is crossing the ball to always put it there.

7:18So I knew for me it was quite simple and then I found like I started to get my goals from the middle of the box and then I grew in confidence really. I think clear like definitive lines and like rules and regs almost for players especially the wide players for forwards like yourself. If you know, listen get there, I don't want no clips and fancy stuff, just I want it nine times out of ten in that area, it makes it so much easier for you. 100%, 100%. If you don't have that relationship with the wide player and you don't know what they're going to do, I feel like it's very difficult because crosses are, I I feel like it's a simple way to score.

8:00I think football can be made a lot more difficult than it needs to be sometimes. If you have a good crosser of the ball, I just need to beat you. And if you put it in the right area, I need to get a touch on it and it should be a goal. What does Unai Emery want from you?

8:18Hey, Pablo Torre here. As a sports journalist, I've covered global sports for many years now. And there is one thing that I can promise you. Nothing compares to the World Cup. And this time it is even better thanks to McDonald's. You have the chance to take home one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World Cup meal. The cups feature some of the biggest legends in football like David Beckham, Terry Henry, and Ronaldinho, Christian Pulisic, Lamin Yamal, and Alfonso Davies. Right now, get one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World Cup meal only at McDonald's. At participating McDonald's, only for a limited time, while supplies last, all rights reserved, copyright 2026, mcdonald's at the fifa world cup 2026.

9:02you like as a striker as well because i i always think that now with strikers we used i always have two strikers in our team or against us so very much one comes short one goes long what's the ask of a number nine when it's just you up front and alone at aston villa now well first of all i think take it away goals assists stuff like that the number one thing he says is always to work hard and do your job so if the if it's not man for man but if the center back is if you're dribbling with the ball and the center back is running with it you know into our half i need to follow him and um pressure him pressure him so straight away i think it is quite demanding our job you know sometimes we he'll say to me and the number 10 to take all four players and the keeper.

9:52So for that off-the-ball stuff, it is physically really demanding. But then again, I'm seen as the goal scorer and all eyes are on me. So yeah, obviously to produce goals, assists. But yeah, I think the crucial thing is to work hard without the ball. He's known for improving players, for winning. But just in terms of him, what specifically does he bring to you as an individual with that experience that he's got as a coach? Because he improves players, he makes you better. He does, yeah, but he's not said to me specifically like, oh, you need to do this, you need to do that. I think the structure of the team has helped me, obviously the way we play and some things that I've done with an individual coach, one of his coaches, Rodri, we do a lot of work on how I can isolate the centre-back and what movement I can do to put me in the best position to score.

10:51So there'll be things that I do with the number 10, like Morgan, Rogers, or the wide players, when they get the ball, what movement to make. And that's one thing that I hadn't really done, like work with an individual coach like that. So I think that's been massive for me. You're the only Englishman, one of the guys behind the scenes told me this this morning, you're the only Englishman, and tell me if you knew this already, You're the only Englishman to score 10 plus goals in the last six seasons. Yeah, I knew that. I knew that because my friends and family, they always send me stats and be like, this is what you achieve and little things like that.

11:32So, yeah, it is. And I do keep an eye on these things. I think they're important, you know, and like I said, to always strive for new things and to reach new goals and new targets. So yeah, it's something I'm really proud of and I think it's not bad company, the two other players that are not English that are up there as well. Who are they? Harland and Sulla. You know what, strikers always know these little details, you know what, it's weird. Also, you've spoken a lot about hard work and is that your reward, like consistency? Like when you know you're working hard, you're going to get that out of the back.

12:10Yeah, I think when things aren't going for you, I think when you're constantly putting hard work in, the rewards may not come straight away, but in three, four weeks you reap the rewards and then you look back and think, oh, that's why I did it. That's what I think anyway. I think that it always pays off. If you work hard, there's no way that you can't be successful and succeed. Who's your toughest opponent? If you can give me one or two defenders who you've found always give you a tough time? In the Premier League, always a tough time. Before, Thiago Silva. Why him? Thiago Silva, he was so clever.

12:49So I played against him, obviously, at the end of his career, but it still felt like he was 25. I felt like the best defenders are the ones that read the game and they're clever. they're clever in a way as they don't get exposed so like you'll see a lot of teams now like barcelona will play a high line and be playing offside which i would like to play against because space there's a space whereas the other defenders like tiago silva he wouldn't do that so he would always cover himself and give himself an extra five six yards so i'd never have chance to running behind and beat him in a race because he would never put himself in that position so he was always like one step ahead I think he's seen everything he's obviously played the game at the highest level so I think for me Thiago is the toughest one Just on defenders Ezri Konza he's going to play for England in the summer I think it'll be him and Gay centre backs what's his best attribute you train with him every day you see him I think the fact that he's so composed on the ball so I've played with Ez I think I've played with him the most out of all my teammates in my career I played with him at Brentford and then all the time at Villa and I felt like he had always been not spoken about enough and he's just so composed on the ball and even when I'm playing against him in training there'll be times where he'll dribble out with the ball and then obviously he dribbles it across you so you either foul him and he's ahead of you or you have to let him run.

14:27He'll never be playing a long diag or anything like that. like he's always keeping it short and he's comfortable on the ball but he's quick as well so he never gets caught out like that and then he's aggressive so yeah he's got he's got he's got a lot of good action must give you confidence as a teammate like when you're playing and you know you've got that behind you in it yeah exactly and i i judge a player an attacking player as well if they've gone past Ez. Oh, okay. So, like, we played Bologna and there was a winger that went past Ez and I was like, oh, he's good because Ez doesn't get beat often.

15:04Yeah, yeah. Just to go back to Emery, when he first came, and obviously you guys must have been, like, fans don't understand it. Players are like fans and we're looking at the media for information and stuff and you hear about Emery coming in. Like, what was one of, like, the biggest discipline changes that happened when he came in because there's always going to be a shift and difference what were they looking like when he changed it wasn't discipline as in like oh you're turning up late for training you're fine like he's not he's not big on that on like timings out to training and stuff like that but it was more i remember we came out to training and we just didn't really do much with with the ball it was all about like structured shape and I was surprised as well really like Spanish coach you think maybe like a little yeah yeah it was just 4-4-2 basic like running like moving to the mannequin pressing without the ball and it was surprising really because you don't think that from a Spanish coach I didn't know what to expect really I know he did really well at Arsenal but I hadn't watched much of like Villarreal and stuff so I think that was the the main thing how how drilled he was and yeah he was basically telling us to just to enjoy it we're very like privileged men to do he always reminds us how how privileged we are to to do our job and we get paid handsomely to play football at the end of the day so yeah just he just reminds us that all the time he still says it now that's good I always found good managers always talk beyond football to try and get your attention and for you to appreciate where you are and stuff another manager you played under Gerrard yeah like it was a bit of insight into him like what was first impressions like with him yeah like when when Gerrard came in I was kind of I was excited I didn't know how he was gonna like I've seen Gerrard obviously play and stuff like that like the last time I saw him was when he was playing for Liverpool so and then next thing you know he's your manager so I was really excited for just to see how he was obviously he's played at such a high level I thought he's so relatable he's been in our position he knows how we feel he can talk to you on a kind of on a level whereas some managers for example like our boss now what he's the boss like you you don't really have many conversations with him but I like it like that it's good but yeah with Gerrard it it was really it was really good at the start um i felt like we were we were playing some good football there was a good feel around the club and then i think things changed a little bit when he had a a new assistant that came in i think things had changed and we just didn't hit the ground running at the start of the season like you know like we were before and um but i i took a lot of I felt really bad like I felt I felt terrible when he got sacked we found out on the coach and I don't know I felt like I took a little bit of responsibility for that because he's looking at me to me and all the other attackers to score and produce and we weren't doing that so I felt a little bit yeah you took that on your chest yeah a little bit because as the attackers you should be scoring and there was one game we battered Tottenham first half but we just couldn't score we just had so many chances we just couldn't put in the back of the net and they they came out second half and um they destroyed us to be honest song song got a hat trick i can remember that day and it was just like yeah it just wouldn't it wasn't going our way and but as a as a manager and as a as a person he was a really good guy because a lot most a lot of people a lot of fans when you hear them talking about players nowadays they just think huge money all the adulation that goes with it they don't have those feelings they don't take responsibility for those type of situations and just think oh i'm all right i've got my three four-year deal i'm fine new manager let's move on but clearly that's different yeah it's not like fans i think it's easy for fans to say oh it's all right he's going to get into his flash car like he doesn't care but it's like no even if you're in a flash car driving home you're still thinking oh my god we got battered today or you hate the feeling of losing it doesn't make it any much better I know that's easy for me to say in a privileged position but it doesn't make things it doesn't make things better you know if you've lost the game you're still annoyed and you can't do anything to change that.

19:35No I agree I try I tell people that all the time but it's like so difficult when people see how you're earning so much money they just bypass that completely just staying on manager, Southgate. How strict were his tactical instructions and his expectations that you put on you guys? I think for me, I think Gareth was more of a leader, as in he was the face of it. His assistant, Steve Holland, did quite a lot of the tactical work on the pitch and he was really clever with the way he approached things. He would take training and the build up play and stuff, the set pieces and stuff, the day before the game and the training.

20:18But yeah, Gareth was more of a, he would always stick with you, even if he felt like we hadn't played well or there were situations in the media. I felt like he always had your back and was there to put an arm around you. So yeah, it was amazing to play under him and obviously it's a shame that we we didn't get to you know for him to leave on a high like I think he was wishing to was it was he someone who lost his temper much or not because I always look at him I'm fascinated as to like what's he like no I didn't think so I think he was very cool and um there was not times there if there was times where you know we can play better at half time he may say something but there's there's not many times I can remember him being very angry I felt like he was always quite calm and collected and he was like he was obviously criticized at the end yeah and like could you could you understand that or was you like oh this guy's done a lot for the country yeah not really i think like people think obviously with the england squad and their talent and the amount of players there are that like we should be beating teams like six nil every game it's just like it's not it's not uh it's not like that like football's not that easy um no matter who picks a team, it's always going to be difficult.

21:37So I think to go back-to-back finalists of the Euros is an amazing achievement, and there's things that he's done that not many England managers have done. So it's a difficult role to have, and I feel like you're always going to be scrutinised whether you win or whether you lose. So, yeah, I can't speak highly enough of him. just take me back to that semi-final goal man like what's that feeling like because they're superstar players yeah who've done amazing things in their careers and they're going to be legends for the game forever just never ever done what you've done i know you score a goal like that just tell me the feeling and like what was that night like for you yeah so previously to that i felt like i'd had a great season with villa obviously we got to champions league and then I'm used to playing every game for my team.

22:33I think I've missed maybe two games that season. And I can remember voice noting my mate saying, don't get me wrong, it's good, obviously the Euros, but I'm just not happy to just be sat here watching all the games. I know someone's got to be a sub at the end of the day, but I felt like I could bring something to the team by coming off the bench for the last 15, 20 minutes, whatever that may be. and he was like no mate you're gonna have your moment like just keep positive keep positive and then um yeah that night obviously I came on I scored and yeah it was uh it was the best feeling ever just to because I called it as well I could see that the there was quite a lot of space the game was opening up like it was hot the tempo was uh slowing down a little bit and there was a few times in training I you know I linked up well with Cole and like whenever I ran he just find me like it was just it was just easy i didn't have to do anything he just put it on a plate so um yeah we when i saw that he was coming on with me i remember i was warming up with him and i said like i said to uh lewis duncan dean henderson i said i'm gonna score here and they were like make sure you do when you when you do run over so like on my face like i'm like that's why i'm like ah because i could see them but yeah i called it and uh they're running over to me and yeah it was just it was the best feeling ever because i was i called it but i was surprised still because i've actually when i've got the ball on the turn the defender's quite close to me so i'm thinking oh i'm just going to shoot here and maybe i may get a corner or something but as he's opened his legs i've hit the ball so sweet and it just it just didn't move and that's finished yeah and that's all into the corner it's mad because i mean like like you say about being a sub it's a very difficult position to be in like you say when you're the main man at your club you're scorer and you're confident and you go international level and it's not working out and the way you might have envisioned it going like hat i mean it's for a lot of listeners a lot of viewers i think it'd be nice to hear you explain how you get your head around that mentally stay in tune for games how difficult that is i think so that was the first kind of experience i had had of it at this level so before when I was at Exeter and stuff like that I was used to it but then when I moved I was just used to playing and starting regularly for you know six seven seasons so then to have that and probably like the the prime time of my career it was difficult but I it's understandable as you know I have Harry Kane in front of me who speaks for himself but um i've kind of taken it now as sometimes the game is tight you know for this first 60 70 minutes so when the game opens up it's probably it's good to come on fresh you've watched the game as well like when i'm on the bench i'm not just chatting like having banter with the boys i'm i'm focused on the game and seeing what the defenders do so i can so it's like you're studying straight away Yeah, because you never know when you can come on.

25:40There's been times where I've been sat on the bench and I can come on in the first 20 minutes, for example. So you've got to be ready. Yeah, and I just study what's going on, what the defenders do, like if they're aggressive, if they get dragged out into pockets and stuff like that. So, yeah, I do focus when I'm on the bench. Well, you know, I have to say thanks because you gave me an unbelievable night because I was actually there. I was in the stands. Adele was in front of me. It was like a superstar show, man. Yeah, yeah. And then our... Who did I link up with Ed Sheeran? Yeah, yeah, because he came into the camp.

26:13Yeah, and then I ended up having a night out with Ed Sheeran that night. It was just mad. And obviously you scored the goal. It was just like, wow, the icing was on the cake. What was the night out like? Good. That's for another podcast. That was a good one. It was a good one. But it was... Is that a career-defining moment for you so far? Yeah, definitely. so I just feel like people have noticed me more and will always say like oh you've you've given me the best moment of like they'll say like you've given me a best moment in an England shirt and stuff like that which is mad because you've got like Bex's free kick um some you know massive goals and people choose mine you know so yeah it is nice it's definitely made me more recognized and I think after that then maybe I put a little bit more pressure on myself and then there was more pressure on me to deliver as well seeing as I scored such an important goal.

27:11Mad, was there any other people, like new people in your DMs, like any stars coming on to you and going, nah, thank you, because it's different now with social media. Yeah, quite a few. Yeah, Bex messaged me. Yeah, just reaching out and saying like, amazing, well done, mate. But yeah, just I had quite, my phone was pinging off it was too much it was too much i've never had anything like that that's what that's what it must be like for like ronaldo and messi every every every game to be honest but yeah it was it was another level that must be a massive incentive to be going again now yeah i think that feeling as well like i was on a high for a week like i i didn't sleep much that night i think i got like two hours sleep and i was just up the whole day buzzing in training and staff the lads are saying to me like mate come on like focus now you're still like you're still like bouncing around like buzzing but um yeah that was that was the best moment for me now to fast forward to where we are today like thomas tucall the new man

28:14hey pablo torre here as a sports journalist i've covered global sports for many years now and there is one thing that i can promise you nothing compares to the world cup and this time It is even better thanks to McDonald's. You have the chance to take home one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World Cup meal. The cups feature some of the biggest legends in football like David Beckham, Terry Henry, and Ronaldinho, Christian Pulisic, Lamin Amal, and Alfonso Davies. Right now, get one of nine legendary cups when you order the FIFA World Cup meal only at McDonald's. At participating McDonald's, only for a limited time, while supplies last, all rights reserved, copyright 2026, McDonald's at the FIFA World Cup 2026.

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29:31like what what has changed since he's coming because gareth had it a set way there was great relationship with the press he changed it all so positive yeah the country absolutely behind the team um you were playing a certain way getting to last stages of tournaments most successful england team in my journey in my lifetime um but new manager now what's the difference he's very hands-on with like tactical work and stuff like that he's he's very like jokey around the lads when it's off the pitch like he'll be playing table tennis and stuff yeah yeah unbelievable unbelievable no way yeah he'll be anyone we've got a table down there i'll play you after no no oh no not me not me no no i'm rubbish but he's he's good is it um so he'll be having like jokes with the lads and stuff like that but then when it's time to work on the pitch he's very very serious um stern and he gets his point across massively so i i've only had a couple of camps with him but yeah his energy is is is really good and he makes it clear i think that's that's one thing when you're on the pitch he makes it very clear like what you need to do off the ball and then on the ball yeah i think that's that german mentality in it like gotta be efficient both sides of the ball.

30:47Yeah, and I think he wants everyone to just react and get the ball back and kind of like smother teams and have that arrogance, you know, to like we're England at the end of the day. And I feel like maybe fans have watched games and previously not thought, ah, they're at their top level. So I think what he's doing is really positive so far. You mentioned him talking about confidence and arrogance. Does he talk about that? Yeah, I remember when we played against Wales and I think in the first half we were 3-0 up within, you know, 20 minutes. And we literally, we did suffocate them. Like they didn't, they couldn't get out of their half really.

31:26They didn't have many opportunities and that was the game plan that he envisioned and set up for us to do. And yeah, we got that down to a tee and yeah, I think that's what he wants. you need to be on the front foot and be aggressive and um like i said like you said some other teams just quickly has the only one beat him at ping pong yet if he's the best i'm not sure someone's got to beat him but who's good who's actually good because i need to know i'm i love ping pong uh harry might be good he's got good technique yeah he's got good hand-eye coordination probably all the all the boys some of the boys that probably play paddle as well paddle as well who's good at paddle are you into paddle have you got this bug as well i love it in the euros i had a i was playing paddle a lot and um yeah we kind of we were all playing too much really they were like actually we've got a game in a couple of days you need to slow down a bit but um yeah paddle paddles good i'm not too good at it though i need to i'm more i would say i'm more i'm better at golf what are you good at then what's going on here just chilling nothing just talking about harry like because he's he's doing so well at by munich now the amount of goals he's almost like he's gone up levels again since leaving Spurs what's he like as a captain you've been in England captain what's he like as a leader yeah I think he leads by his performances I wouldn't say like he's a big vocal leader but he leads by his performances is the way he trains the standard on everything he does that the way he executes passes and his finishing I think that's just something to he's a good role model and someone to look up to um for the young boys and how to you know to be a professional and how he trains every day i think i think yeah sometimes and you don't need to be like a vocal leader like obviously you would have played with like Roy Keane you know i'm sure it's probably shouting and screaming and demanding like that um but no he just yeah i think the way he trains and the way he's always quite positive and focused is yeah You're leading by example.

33:33Yeah, leading by example like that. I think it is massive. I like listening and seeing what training would be like. And the shooting drills. I used to sit behind and watch the strikers. When I first got on the England team, it was like Shearer, Sherinham, Wrighty, Andy Cole might have been Letizia. Letizia was the best. Really, yeah. You've seen some of his goals? Letizia, all of them are just bangers, aren't they? Crazy. Just didn't score like a normal goal. So for me, all my goals are just in the box. nice pins and stuff like that his is just like he's not scored one of them they're all just well 30 40 yard stroking them in is like crazy in the drills like that who's who's the guy who's like you go wow that's a different level yeah harry is it yeah he's finishing off both feet like sometimes you know if you've had a bad touch and the ball's under your feet you'll still find a way to dig it out yeah to dig it out and he hits it with so much power as well but like accurately so yeah he's he's he's by far the best i would say as a striker i'm keen to understand a lot are you are you discussing your styles or do you see something like that and he's going how do you do that you're asking questions or is it like you're a bit proud and a little bit like i need to keep a bit back for myself no not really like i don't ever like i never have that like mindset where i'm like oh jealous or or like i feel like you're both in your own lane and like obviously if I see something that I think he like oh I can take a little bit of that and put it into my game or then I do it but um sometimes like yeah you you have that debate on the discussion on the training field and ask ask little things but no not too much sometimes I just see what what he does in a scenario when he's in front of the goalkeeper and and try and yeah do that replicate that next time.

35:23Is there any other strikers that you'd watch and analyze and you take bits from at all? because I would do that that's what I would do a lot of the time well I think it's hard to Mbappe do you know what I mean I can't really implicate that but I love watching him just because like he's transitioned from a winger to a striker like we were talking about earlier but he's just so deadly he's just so deadly and he's like he's just electric you never know what he's going to do he can chop you and yeah I feel like he's he's exciting to watch when I think about Mbappe I always think about Michael Owen.

35:58Really? Yeah because like young... The pace? Pace yeah, deadly killer pace like and when Michael was younger it was like he was like he was unplayable, crazy like. But I saw something I think you said before about Michael Owen that he couldn't dribble through cones or something. No, if you've done it, so Glenn Hoddle was the manager, yeah like even people were laughing yeah but Glenn Hoddle was a manager he was a skills man right so his warm-ups was always based around doing like juggling and going in and out of cones and team stuff so competitions so it'd be like three teams go through the cones ping it back on the volley you've got to bring it down and go michael used to when we used to go right warm up you might just go for sake he was like devastated like he used to hate it because he wasn't great here but if you said right get from the halfway line to the goal quickest he would be even if there's players in the way michael's getting there quicker yeah anybody just knew he had a he had an understanding of where to be how to get from a to b on the pitch anyway he had jet hills he was just so fast but just talking about him we interviewed him on the show before on Rio Meats and he said that uh you you you and him chat yeah so I speak to him like at times I felt like when I'm going through a difficult period or something like that I can speak to you like I can speak to the missus I can speak to my friends and stuff like that but they're always going to have a biased opinion so like I'll play a game and my missus go oh you played great we lost four nil what you want about so sometimes she's not the best person to to speak to love and then yeah i know and then also also my mates as well they do they will have a biased opinion and put the blame onto someone elsewhere and you know i want to be accountable for for that so i just reached out to him so you took it upon yourself to find his number and speak to him yeah well he he followed me on instagram like we followed each other on instagram and I just thought, I'm just going to message him.

37:47Who better? Michael Owen. I feel like he doesn't get the plaudits he deserves. So I reached out and I was just like, mate, are you free to chat? Whatever. He was in Dubai at the time and he rang me and was just saying, look, I feel like when you're at your best, when you play aggressive, you're a nightmare for defenders and that's where I've seen you at your best. Yeah, I was just getting kind of little nuggets, like you said, from him and I just feel like it's like who can really do that? You know, be in a position where they can reach out to someone who's won the Ballon d 'Or and... You see the way he slapped it on the table for the interview as well?

38:25Yeah, yeah. Slaps it in the middle of the screen, man. Yeah, yeah. I wish I could do that. It's a good flex to do that. No, it's true. It's a nice flex. But that's quite telling about you as a person really that you have that humility to be able to reach out. This is someone who's playing in the Premier League, playing in the Champions League and you're still looking for that extra 1%. yeah because I always want to improve I always want to get better and I think like I always wanted I always want to like I'm never happy I'm never satisfied so I'm always I'm not thinking oh yeah like I'm in the prem like relax like I always I don't I don't want that to kind of go away I'm always striving to you know push for minimum to be where I am and then you know go on and do better than what I've done before so yeah like I said to reach out to him and get some advice is yeah a nice feeling and an amazing thing to be able to do and um yeah just learn from from the best really just talk for going back to england camp like yeah who was the first like even maybe unexpected person to make you feel welcome when you walk into england camp because we see all the pictures of you guys getting out your cars in your trackies.

39:38You ain't doing that the drip. Yeah, you're not doing the drip stuff yet. What's going on? When's that coming? Is that a bit of you? Would you be happy to be doing that? I'd like to wear my own goo. Yeah, I would as well. A few sponsors. But some of the French squad, what they wear is crazy. The French and the Dutch squad, they're on it. It's crazy. But to be fair, they perform as well. So I feel like, yeah, they can do it. But no, I'm happy with a tracksuit. Yeah? Yeah, whatever. No, no. So when you were walking to the England squad, who was the person that you thought, oh, that made me feel really comfortable and welcome when you got there?

40:12My first squad, I was tight with Luke Shaw, actually. Oh, nice. Yeah, so Luke, I just found like he was just dishing out banter. You know if someone dishes banter at you straight away and then you're like, pour them back. It's an icebreaker, isn't it? Yeah, it's an icebreaker. It's a good... But some people, I think, keep themselves to themselves. And I don't know, sometimes it's not uncomfortable, but it's better. I feel like when you're auditioning, banter out, and everyone has... Sometimes you can have your little clicks. So for him to obviously come over, yeah, it was good. And we still chat now.

40:49Oh, you still chat? Yeah, yeah. That's good. That's nice when that happens. And just talking about training, because I used to think, like, going to England, I was always, like, especially when I first started getting the England squad, I used to think, and my mates are always on to me, but who's the guy in training? Who's doing bits in training every day? Who surprised you most in training, like levels? Surprised me the most? It's different because there's so many good players. So like in the rondos, like I'm like, you don't want to go and see, like I look at who's going in a certain rondo and then I go, I'm not going there.

41:21no but like like rashy is is it like in a rondo as well like sometimes i'm on the outside and he does something over there and he's sending me and i'm not even in the middle so i would say him um everyone says about him you know that when i've asked people but he's always one of the guys that i do that his talent is nuts i think he's yeah i think i can't speak highly enough of him i've come to villa as well didn't he yeah there was times where he like i was on the bench and he was keeping me out of the team and I was frustrated not because not about him it was just I just wanted to play but I could understand it you know there was times where like the PSG game he absolutely ripped them apart and I'm on the sideline I'm thinking I shouldn't come on here really because he's no no but I'm honest like that like I don't I don't have an ego like I thought he was because you read things and stuff like that but I knew I knew Marcus's talent and I knew that the manager would get the best out of him and to be fair he did and like he was unbelievable his ability is yeah it's frightening you spoke about Morgan Rogers and obviously he's a creator and you'll be a creator in your team not only with Aston Villa but also of England when you go together and you mentioned Marcus Rashford but how important is it to have those good relationships on the pitch to get good outcomes and how do you create them yeah i think for a start it definitely becomes off the pitch so it does help the more time you can spend with each other and uh sit down just have lunch together like you know how it is you can have a teammate you may not know anything about their personal life or not speak to them for ages and I feel like if I see him going into a tackle or whatever and he gets fouled, I'm there to back him up or I feel like the connection is much better.

43:20So yeah, I feel like the relationship is built off the pitch and then the better off the pitch is taken onto the pitch. I'm close with Morgan and since he's come in really, we've always been we've always been quite tight and I think it reflects on the pitch. We're always working hard together. Whenever he gets the ball, he's always looking for me and vice versa. Are you having those conversations like after pitch, like in the gym or even personal when you're going out for lunch or dinner or something like that as well? Yeah, so I always say to him like, or sometimes I say to the ball like, boys, look for Morgan, give him the ball.

43:55Because I know if Morgan gets the ball, he's going to look for me. So I'm saying get the ball to Morgan. but not only that not selfishly because of me but because he's a player that can create things from nothing um you know he's very talented he's always going to look forward and he's probably not going to just get the ball and play it backwards he's going to try and create something and um and make things happen do you think he starts ring didn't why why why you put me on the spot rio that it's a question everyone wants to know man yeah i'm i'm I'm not the manager so I don't know. I'm not going to give the standard media answer but I wouldn't be surprised if he did because he's so talented.

44:40He's had an amazing season. He's very confident and he backs his ability. I think you can see the way he's performed this year. You can see that he's a very confident guy. I think he does. That's probably the position that's being spoken about. You mentioned Morgan there. Yeah. What about Drew Burnham? What's his super strength? His super strength is, I think, he's an all-round complete midfielder. I think that he can do everything and I think his physical capability as well, getting around the pitch, he always wants the ball. I think that's massive. You know, for a midfielder as well, where you're going to lose the ball at times, but he'll run back, he'll obviously sprint forward.

45:30I think he can run a game and I think his confidence and belief in himself, I think that's one thing that probably takes him to the next level. I see people try and criticise him about his demeanour and stuff. They find in ways that they want to get a pick at him. You're playing with him. Surely that's not something you guys look at and go as a problem. No, to be fair, whenever I've played at him, I think I've looked around and think, I think you would feel like he's a 28, 30-year-old guy, the way he handles himself and the way he carries himself. On the pitch, he's throwing his arms around, not like moaning, but to get the crowd going.

46:09I think he gives off a feeling just to always believe and keep pushing. I think he likes that responsibility and takes it on his shoulders. and I think as a teammate, it's good to see players that do that. I agree. I love that, man. Fans and media try and pick up players for stuff like that, but I think when you're in a team, you need players like that to spur you on sometimes in big moments, critical moments. Who's the one that did it for you most, do you think? Cristiano. We had great players. Paul Scholes would do it in a more unassuming way, where he's like always available give it to me any time of the day if I've got three or four men round me it don't matter just give me the ball and if you didn't give it to him you get a look or you get a little like Rio fucking give it to me and you're like you got two men on you don't matter just pass me the ball and that just instills confidence and it spreads in the team but Cristiano was like like you said about Jude the big moment comes if he hasn't got that opportunity to take the big moment he's not happy whether he scores or not but why are you giving it to someone else?

47:20In his mind, he's thinking, how can you give it to someone else? It's me. And that just grew and grew. And even when he went to Real Madrid, I think that got bigger and bigger. But Wayne had it as well in a different way. But Wayne was more of a, he didn't mind someone else having that opportunity, but he was like, but just give me the opportunity sometimes as well. Share it out. Where Cristiano was very self, that's mine. Do you know what I mean? So different, but there's lots of players that would do it in different ways. And again, Juj delivered. Yeah, yeah. Champions League with Real Madrid doing it, so it's understandable that he's doing it based off of experience of doing it, so I get it.

47:54For me, playing with players like them, they're always looking forward and looking for me to running behind. For me, I'm staying away, there's no point in me dropping in because I'm only going to go into their space. I just need to, you know, my superpower is running that way. I don't need to drop in and be in the pocket, they're much better at me than that, so I just know my game leave them to do it but then I can run on to the end of their passes yeah like I said I don't want to I don't want to make a decision I can't speak highly enough of all of them I'll let you off yeah but after pitch I think it's important now for players with social media and I see you with Wonderama you've also got to deal with with Allo what's that because normally you wouldn't be able to work with two companies like that yeah so for me I've always worn so when I was younger I was wearing Nike boots and then when I moved to Brentford I was wearing I started to try under armour boots and I really liked them and from there we've always had a relationship where I just felt really comfortable with them it was a brand that I that aligned with me I felt like they cared it wasn't just about a sponsorship deal and yeah I just felt like it was a bit different as well everyone wears like the standard Nike and Adidas I wanted to be a bit different so yeah that's why that's why I chose them how important is that to you like working with a company that actually gets you and are willing to help you in in your journey of being a professional footballer because some people like you say will just go it's a transaction yeah biggest biggest check I'll go with it I'll go there yeah see I didn't want that I didn't want that there was things that they were saying to me like we can put like um you know like red light therapy in your house like we can all invest in like ice baths for you just stuff like recovery stuff off the pitch that, you know, that it matters, you know, like little things like that can help you recover and those little one percents can help me perform a lot better.

49:53So yeah, just to, you know, feel like you're wanted and they care about you. It was important. So we go to it now. Five-a-side team. Best players that you've played with. Yeah. No goalkeepers. They don't count. Right. Okay. You've got some good teams on there, you know. Yeah, I have. um Coutinho oh I forgot he was at Villa innit yeah just like the Brazilian like he would always just do that little yeah send the defender um Jack Grealish oh talk to me talk to me about Jack what's so good about like Jack was especially when he was at Villa he had that freedom where he was he could go wherever he wanted he was kind of like he was always like give me the ball and literally you couldn't tackle him.

50:37You couldn't, like, he was so strong as well, like, and his ability to move so quickly, his balance was, I think that was probably his best attribute, his balance. I think people, like, you couldn't really knock, you couldn't knock him off balance. Like, you can't, yeah, he was, like, I felt like if he didn't get injured during that period, there was a long, three or four months period where he was injured. It kind of disrupted the rhythm of the team, but I felt like if he had played then and we were done a lot better and then i would have scored a lot more goals as well so but yeah jack phil coutinho um i've got to have a keeper no keepers don't count man yeah in that case yeah um

51:24jack creelish coutinho harry kane john stones oh tell me about john stones what's so good about john stones he's just so composed on the ball like i remember the first every time i've gone to england i'll be pressing him and he's just so relaxed he's so relaxed on the ball like he always makes the right decision like as well his pass it passing is so crisp like i always notice small details because my manager before uh when i was at xa he was massive on like passing and the way to pass and stuff like that so I always pay attention to those little things but yeah he I don't know I just felt like he's so composed on the ball and he's a bit like a Rolls Royce just smooth like yeah he's unreal he's one of the best he's one of the best like even to play against he's difficult to play against just because of the fact that you're always I'm thinking I shouldn't press you you're just going to either dribble past me or you're going to pop it off so yeah I can't speak highly enough of Stonesy and yeah that's why he makes it into the five-a-side team and then I and then I probably say I'd probably say Jude Jude Burnham wow it's a good team good team yeah yeah I like it no keeper but yeah I like it yeah that's nice that what's yours what's yours oh what's mine no one's ever asked me that no what is mine you've got a good Cristiano Rooney, Scholes, Gerrard, Giggs.

53:06Oh, who wins? I think my team's hurt too. You reckon your team? Yeah, that wins it. That wins it, I think. That's my off-five, I would say. Off the bat, just like that. Well, listen, that's a good way to finish. Obviously, there's a big summer coming up as well, so good luck with that, man. Thank you, man. Good to see you, man. Thank you. Stay healthy.

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