Playing with Messi and Training with Yamal | Thiago Alcántara takes us BTS at Barca

0:00You want to get your backyard summer ready, but you don't want to break the bank? Wayfair gets it. Planning on dining al fresco or relaxing poolside? Wayfair has everything you need to prep your space. Shop now and save up to 70 % off during Wayfair's 4th of July clearance. Score huge deals on outdoor furniture, area rugs, and more. We're talking thousands of products for every style and budget. Plus, surprise flash deals July 6th. Don't wait! Shop Wayfair's 4th of July clearance now through July 6th at Wayfair.com. Wayfair, every style, every home. And you mentioned Messi. What is it like to have him in your team?

0:35He's so good that he's frustrating. He gives you this frustration. Because he's so good and you give him the ball and you're just trying to participate in the game but you're not in the game. You are in Messi's game. So you are playing him and you're there. You're just on the field. Trying to help and to don't disturb his situation, you know. Yes guys, welcome to Rio Meats. In this World Cup, we're out in LA. And Airbnb have sorted us out with this incredible place. We'll be bringing you the best conversations with the biggest names. Stay with me guys, we'll see you next.

1:15Hello my friend, how are you doing? Hello. You good? Hello brother. Great to see you man. Good for having me here. Thanks for your time, I know you're busy man, so thanks for your time. Nah, nah. I really appreciate it. No worries, I don't. You know what? We've had so many legends coming through this Airbnb here, like the place we have. Oh, okay. Thierry, Kaka, you now, Clarence. Oh, yeah. So, only the top guys. Oh, man. Incredible. You have houses everywhere. It's incredible. No, no, no, no. I know. Just kidding. It looked after us. It's okay. You sit down here on the seat. How has been those days?

1:46This one, you stay here. This side here. This side here? Yeah, it's been good. Today, I had the last two days a day off. Okay. So we had two days after I've been chilling, but we've been doing our own stuff here, which has been really good. But let's get into it. Do you remember how we first met? Or the first interaction we had? I think we had some relation between you wanting me to go to United. Some kind of... I remember that. David De Gea came to me and said to Rio. I remember that. And Thiago, he's going to leave Barca, but he's going to go with Pep. But there's an opportunity maybe for us to speak to him, to come to Manchester United.

2:26Yeah, under 21, I remember that. Yeah. I think David said, you have 24 hours or 48 hours for Man United to make a decision if they want to bid for you. So I said, OK, David, I don't know Thiago, but I know he's a good player. I know we need him. Let me speak to the guys at the club. So I spoke to them, David Moyes. spoke to Ed Woodward and they went in another direction. Me, I was going crazy. I was saying, what are you doing, man? You can't let this guy go. But you ended up going to Bayern Munich and had seven wonderful years there. The thing is that you were captain at the time and I think the club was in this kind of fighting itself in this case that you were leading.

3:09Not just the players but the whole community you built around the club. And the thing is that when the year passes and you see United team and how David Moyes approaches players, if I am in that dressing room, everybody will be here, I will be here in terms of size, you know? Because he liked tall players, strong players, Spelain at the end, yeah. But Pep Guardiola was there at that time. And before I remember his last game with Barcelona and Camp Nou, we were doing like just the last lap, just to applaud the crowd and say thank you. And he was making the whole lap with me. And I think, wow, it's his farewell here.

3:51And he's spending this lap with me, just talking about the future, how I'll be the player he won in the midfield. And I remember to say, OK, we have plenty of time during December now. It's your time here. You talk with me about that. so I got that in my mind and I remember this moment I said okay when this guy took his next shot I probably am going with him so yeah it was kind of him and he's a coach we know his as well but then because of my relationship with the hair I was in love with the Premier League at that time as well so he was trying to to push me to push me to that way you know David's a good guy as well it's crazy because obviously We've wanted you on this show for a long time.

4:39We've been speaking on messages for ages. But I sensed that you understood the rivalry between Man United and Liverpool. No, no. Think about it. I'm born in football. My dad was a long time playing football. And I love that my dad approached football. Very serious, very strict with, I'm a football player and I have to behave. But at the same time, I love to see how a football player behaves at home. I love that. So football for me is the game. It's not about teams, it's the game. So I didn't... It was not this rivalry between United or Liverpool or Barcelona or Madrid. I've misread this then. Yeah, it was just about...

5:23I have something against the... to have public statements or press or kind of things. While you was playing? Yeah. No, I get it. I respect it completely. But you moved to the Premier League. You said you had a love for that. You were 29 years old after seven great years at Bayern. And England's known for the physicality. Were you worried about adapting at all? Or were you purely confident in your ability? I was very confident because we were just the Champions League winners. So, you know, when you come to the Premier League like that, you feel like you can cope every kind of situation. It doesn't matter where in the world.

5:59So I had the feeling that I can cope that physicality, athleticism that the Premier League had. But then, Covid strike in that time and I got after, I remember Chelsea game, I just got Covid and then that was a tough moment for me to get the rhythm again and then Premier League physically. Did Klopp have anything specific for you in working in his midfield? Like when you signed, was there a conversation about how you're going to be implemented into that squad? Yeah, I remember that squad was, if we go back and you see Hendo, it's Mili, you see Naby, you see all these big players, Gini, very strong players, very technical players, and he said we are all the time back and forth, we are dominant in terms of when we attack we hurt and we know how to defend, but sometimes we're missing control, so we need that control sometimes.

6:54That's when you're coming, yeah. Yeah, and he said and we need you for that, because my My question is never, why can I bring, what the team can bring to me? I never felt like that. It's what can I add to the team? Because I've always been a team player. But then I remember the first, after COVID, the first against Everton, the first game, he said to me, Thiago, you have to press the fullback. And I was thinking, as a midfield player, I have to press the fullback. you know something inside of me say this is strange but Premier League you have to do it you have to cope it so when a manager asks you to do something you're not used to and it's not part of your DNA you're not part of your makeup what goes through your head?

7:41ah man if he has to do it and other players did it I can do it so I have to do it but then when I do it first and because when I play I was very good reading patterns of the game. Every second it passed and every situation. When I saw that the second, third time it went wrong, I said, that's not the way. And I was trying first to argue with the coach and try to make him his mind. If not, I have to do it by myself or tell the teammates. What do you mean when you say patterns? Like the game, first of all, you know the other team, how they play, but then the game is going somewhere, some flow, some kind of movement.

8:29And I was really quick identifying those movements where they, for example, a fullback is going wide, the winger is coming in, and you see that pattern. And you can close this gap in between your team what you expected before the game. I love hearing that with midfielders and players, intelligently. The intelligent players only speak like this. It's crazy. Are all players adaptable like this, though? Or are there some players who say, no, this isn't me. I have to do what I do. Have you played with any guys like this? Yeah, with many. Like wingers. Wingers, they don't have to think that much. They are not people that they have many thoughts about it.

9:06And when it occurs, it's because they find it out at the end of their careers. And now Salah. Salah is very smart, but when he started, he was just going without thinking. And he was getting smarter. But then wingers all the time, one against one. One against one. You don't have to think that much. And me, if you play, we have to be fast. If not, people are faster than us in terms of speed. So you mentioned Salah, I was going to talk about him later, but now you're here. He's such a big part of that time that you was there. What's he like in the dressing room? Is he a demanding character? Is he quiet?

9:44I arrived already in Liverpool when he had a big name. So when you score that amount of goals, you're already this kind of quiet without talking, but leading with acts. And he was just scoring and putting an effort and his work ethic. And with me, he's like a brother. So it was a great relationship, a personal relationship with him. But then seeing his work ethic every day, early in the gym, training, behavior with teammates, which I was in love with the players. Sadio Mane, Salah, Sominho as well. What was it like with these guys playing with them? I was in love with Bobby. Bobby, I think he's one of the best players I've ever played with.

10:31Wow. In training, to do things as a striker, to do things that midfield players did, and scoring goals, wow. You know, it's crazy. We interviewed Sadio Mane. He said exactly what he just said. When I mentioned his name, his face lit up like yours. but no one outside knows it thinks about it or says it he doesn't get mentioned as one of the best strikers why is that? because sometimes you met people in life that you deserve them good you want them all good things happened to them and Bobby was one of them you know like the way he is as a person and then suddenly he's another person playing football like he's cheeky with the ball doing things reading the game being fast clever so you have this kind of Dr.

11:18Jekyll and Mr. Hyde you know as personality but being a nicest person ever but then a heck of a football player here and he made that mix and you say wow okay he did that he did a tunnel here he did a bike here and you think okay maybe he's arrogant he's the greatest human being ever so I think that mix of player and person I think make all of us made in love with that we always talk about creating relationships on this show and I always think it's a massive part of any good team to create good relationships throughout the team on the pitch and off the pitch did these guys then front three especially ask anything different of you as a midfielder backing them up would there be those conversations I need it like this give it to me no because as I was as I was good reading patterns from others I was even better reading my teammates.

12:17So I remember the first games, I never closed my eyes to hit a ball, like a long ball without... If I am under pressure and I have to defend you and you give me away the ball, I wouldn't shoot it to the sideline. I would try to play it. But I had the feeling sometimes with Mo and Sadio in the first games that if they don't touch the ball, if they are not in challenges, they are getting out of the game. So there are some situations that I say, okay let me try I just close my eyes and I ping the ball to the far end to the face just on one side you make a challenge with the defenders and then you get them back to the game and even there are five minutes again I say okay five minutes I got another ball there so with that you make your wingers connected to the game again because they want challenges that was the thing with them and then with you see Mili you see Hendo in the middle you know where they want the ball sometimes I I didn't like to run deep space.

13:14But I know Hendel, he likes this ping there. And I make a run, but he makes a ping and follow the play. Henderson, there's a big talk about Henderson right now with the World Cup in England about why is he there? Why do you think he's in the England squad now? He makes all the players better. All the players better. Because if you are going to a national team, it's because your standards are high. And And he doesn't allow any of the players to get below their standards. That's why Belegan is performing better. That's why Harry Kane is still there in his level. That's why Anderson now is in the midfield with himself, is performing as he has been ever in football.

13:57So this kind of play you need in the team. Do you think Jordan's behind that? I think Jordan is behind everyone. Because he seemed to make it better for good. Really. It's crazy because I saw an interview with Drew Bellenum and Morgan Rodgers, and they both were sitting there laughing and said, Jordan Henderson is the best guy that they've come across in football as a human being. It's like you're saying with Firmino, these guys. It's different. Bobby is different. Bobby, he won't hurt a fly. But Hendo is, I will push you as hard as I can, but without hurting you, making you better. And if you need something, I'm there for you.

14:38but you will fight with me and I fight for you. There are different goodness there. A leader. Yeah. Did you have any arguments with him and different opinions, etc.? Opinions, for sure, but at the end we get along with each other, for sure. You're a player, I was looking it up, you're one of the only players in a unique position to have played for both Pep and Klopp. Are they similar at all in any ways? I play for so many good coaches, Carlo, Luis Enrique, Lopetegui now is in. But Pep and Klopp is the way, I would say, the way they communicate, the way they have an idea and they can express an idea.

15:21And in that terms, they are very similar. But then Pep is more the approach of how he sells his idea through tactic. And Klopp is how he sells this idea through the community, the energy, the group. So those are two different approaches of football. But then they have this kind of leadership in terms of the leader in the dressing room as a coach is I have here something on my mind and I can make the team understand that idea. I think they both did that. Yeah, I always found that the best coaches made difficult things sound simple. and then it's easy to translate it. And it's not just feeling them simple.

16:08It's that you feel them as well. You feel that his words are your words as well. So they did that as well. That's crazy. Was there any big differences? I came from Barcelona school and everything was slow cooked. You need to, okay, set here the timer. I have the proper ingredients. And Klopp is, okay, open the fridge. let's cook the food out let's cook whatever the best meal you will have in your life but what do we have on the fridge so it's different different approaches but at the end you have a great meal we spoke to each other in the studio the other day and you said something that really stuck with me that you said Pep you told me that he makes everyone better how?

16:53because he creates in trainings he can create game situations that actually happen on the game So he tells you before. He makes you do the action before the game happens. And then in the game, you say, wow, we are winning in the 10th minute 3-0, doing the things we did in training, exactly the things we did in training. And then after 10 matches that the teams already prepared the game against us, halftime, do this and that. After five minutes, we are leading the game. Change. And you think, wow, how is that possible? To be so fast. I remember watching him with a computer in his laptop and he said, Thiago, let's watch this game.

17:42And we just came out from that game. Let's watch our game here. So the game you just played, you're watching again? Yeah, we're watching again and say, boom, here. Have you seen that? No. And he showed me just these kind of patterns that I told you before. the other team behaved against us. And you say, here is a gap. Why you didn't take that gap? We didn't see that gap. And suddenly some kind of division, he did that with Messi, remember, in Madrid, when they beat Madrid 5-0 in the Bernabeu. Thierry scored one or twice. Samuel Eto 'o scored. Pique scored the last one. And suddenly he saw this gap between Real Madrid defenders and midfield players.

18:28And he say, I will put Messi as a foul line there. And what's that game that Barcelona just smashed Madrid? So these kind of patterns, he replied every game. And he can see the other team is just, OK, you have to do this and that. Very fast. Do you have to be a certain type of player to be able to thrive under Pep? Or can you change any, mold any player? You adapt. I always thought that Pep teams, they behaved pretty good as a group, but the players, they stuck that much in the group and they lost a bit. To be this natural skills, the challenge, the challenges as an individuality, you know, as an individual player to say, okay, I want to be better than you.

19:12No, I will be better than you as a group. But the players stuck that good at his idea. So, Jacques Grealish, does he fall into that category? I just think that a player like Jack is just because when you play against City, you are in a deep block. And Jack needs a bit more space to make the one against one with his defender. And when you are playing against a deep block, when he has made the one against one, it's a one against three or two. So he doesn't have that much of time and space to do his things. I think about it. You know, I always think about Pep's players. I think to myself how is it to be there for so long with him under that intense pressure that he provides he brings what's it like in that dressing room think about that 99 % of the players from City they go to national team and when they go national team they say okay I can breathe okay no no no more than breathe is what you said that amount of time with Pep because when I go to a national team probably they say okay I can breathe a bit it's less intense but it's not the same football as we're playing there.

20:21It's not the same coach. This coach controls everything and you recognise that as well. So you have 99 % of the players who are going to a national team. It's crazy because he gave you your debut, Pep, and it's crazy. He goes to Bayern Munich and he says, you're the only player that he wants. It will be him or nobody else. What does that do for a young player like you? As I mean, nothing. I just want to play football. But now when you retire and you see how difficult it is to play the level we played and the coach is, you say, wow, okay. I think because we were in that bubble, in that rhythm of football, we don't recognize things.

21:04We just want to play the game. But when you retire and you look back, you say, okay, this was a great moment of my career that a coach like Pep told those things publicly. Not just for me, to the people. So you're very thankful. With how you talk about Pep, do you think if Pep managed an African team, they win the World Cup? Like Senegal, like Morocco, like Avicode. To be fair, I think Pep managing any national team, he will make world champions. Yeah, you think that? I think so. Whoa. That's a big statement, man. No, I wouldn't think so. Yeah, man, because he's just different. Really. And I think Luis Enrique, Pep, they're really in another level.

21:57But, man, Pep, I know he will make a national team champion. Do you think that's where he goes next, national team? I don't know. I think he does. I don't know. He's nowhere else he goes now. But where? Italy? Oh, she goes to Italy and brings them back. That's right. What is a more... Good food. ...sweetie story to do than Italy right now? The States, maybe. Yes. But the States, I think, is different because of the quality. We are talking about national teams that they have many players around the top leagues. And African teams, they have, Italy, they have, England, Brazil, like teams that they want to win that didn't win for a long time.

22:50But if you say, okay, will Pep take Curaçao, Cape Verde to, no. But the realistic teams. Competitive teams, yeah. You already mentioned the front three, Firmino, Salah, Mane. I was looking at the teams you played for in Bayern, Lewandowski, Ribéry. In front, Robben. Robben, that front three oh man and i don't i don't know if you remember doglas costa oh man brazilian the first six months i swear to you that the whole team that we thought he would win the ballon d 'or his first six months was incredible what happened then i don't know life life personal things i can imagine i don't know but we were all display was in ukraine for so long time and was a waste for us.

23:35Look at him. He was unbelievable. But then I have Lewandowski, Robben Ribery, Douglas. Crazy. Crazy fun freak. What's it like playing behind those type of guys for you? Does he make your job easier? Yeah, for sure. It's a bless. You just give them the ball. The difference between them and Messi is like you give the ball to Messi and you stare. You just stare at what he will do. With those players, you know the pattern of them. You just feed them. You know the bits. Arjun just cutting in and making the long post and you are just okay I will go from his left his right side I will leave him the left side for him and with Ribéry you know that he he's not a selfish player he will dribble the opponent and he you just arrives the box and the pass will go in front of you and Lewandowski this feeling that in the box he will turn and try to finish and just go for a second action so you know this kind of players that you they will behave the way you behave that's why yeah your job is to play to their habits yeah yeah yeah Lewandowski man so yeah i mean he was breaking records these times as well he scored five in five goals in 10 minutes i think it was that's crazy stupid and then obviously harry kane goes there are you surprised with how well he's done or you know he's a great player he's a great player into an easier league than the Premier League with the greatest seed there in Germany.

25:04So I knew he would perform great, but not that good. Like you've got 70 goals in this season, including the World Cup. You can say, hey, he will do a great season. Okay. But that is outstanding. It's ridiculous. What is the role for you when you have a striker like Kane, like Messi, who drop in? into the hole. Just I'd like to get like how a midfielder thinks around a player like that. What are you doing to facilitate somebody like that? Because normally the teams, they prefer them to receive the ball there than to receive the ball high there, near the box. So probably you add one more play in the middle.

25:46So you know you have one more player there to play. And it happened in many games that when a big, big name is coming in, the defensive line, they just drop five, ten metres back. So he's an advantage to you. So you have this player to play. If not, you are playing against a deeper team. So it's much easier to play. And you mentioned Messi. What's it like having Messi? I've played against Messi, so I know from that perspective, but having him in your team… I play with him and against him. What is it like to have him in your team? Oh, man. It's hard to explain, to play with him. Because he's so good that he's frustrated.

26:29He gives you this frustration. Because he's so good and you give him the ball and you're just trying to participate in the game, but you're not in the game. You are in Messi's game. So you are playing him and you're there. You're just on the field. Trying to help and to don't disturb his situation, you know. So when you are able to link with him, it's a blast because you know that it's one, two touches between you who will dribble. You will be the next player. It was incredible. Right, man. We've got loads still to come on this pod, but we'll be back shortly after this. You want to get your backyard summer ready, but you don't want to break the bank?

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28:17The way you just explained that is exactly how I see the Argentina team now. It feels like everybody's just in his game. I think the Barcelona team that beat us, they had more like Xavi and Iniesta and Busquets who could get in the game and do stuff as well. But the Argentina team seems exactly like what you just said there. They're in Messi's game. It's a bit, let's say that in your time, you know that Paul scores and when you say to him second pose this high or this high put here he will put the ball there so Messi is in every game situation you know what he's doing you will you you have to go to the other side because normally when the ball is in one side it will finish in the other side so you are just like waiting that he's finishing in this zone of the field to step up in the next one so you're waiting already there.

29:07And just the spaces that he creates with the ball, you just have to be a bit smart. And you have in the Argentine team, you have McAllister, De Paul, you have Paredes, you have many great players that they read those spaces. Intelligence. So you're saying when the ball's there, Messi will always normally come right away here because the eyes are there and the space is here. And when he has a ball, the other space is free. Yeah, yeah. It's mad. And everyone talks about this, but Thierry Henry spoke about his attitude and work ethic. He's very underrated. Because everyone talks about Cristiano, he works so hard, I respect this.

29:51But they never talk like that about Messi. But surely you can't play at this level for this long without having a great work ethic off the field. You need it. This time, he's the most technical player ever. But then in those days, you need this training, this athleticism to cope every game situation. Because now the people just have individual trainings. They're better. The kids now, Bellingham, Mbappe, Haaland, they have individual training. French, they are basic. The basis is on individual trainings in the youth. So with that, you just have to just cope with this athleticism and be yourself.

30:33And Messi doesn't have to show that he's working in the gym. You can see it. He's got an aura. I mean, is that the same in the dressing room? Because when you're watching him on the pitch or you're playing on the pitch, you can sense there's a crazy aura around him because of how good he is, because of the superstardom. Is that aura in the change room as well with his teammates? No, I think in addressing everything looks closer. The relationships are closer between players. And for sure, people that just see him doing the wonderful things he does, on the pitch you get, okay, wow, he's a human being.

31:11And in addressing room, all of us, we have our great things, our issues. So he's another one and you respect him a lot because the player he is, but as a person, he's one more to the team. I'm always interested as well in midfielders. You mentioned Scolzi. All the players I speak to, and I've spoken to like Iniesta, Xavi, yourself, Clarence Seedorf, they always mention Scolz. What's so great about him? He performed the same way as starting or coming from the bench. It was incredible. And he's this kind of player that is in the same level, doing very consistently. It reminds me a lot of Philipp Lahm in Bayern.

31:50that he was the best doing simple things. The best. Like first touch, easy dribble, a long-range pass, a short pass, everything. He was the best, very consistent. So I got impressed with that, how a player at that level always did the right things. The simple things, but the right ones. That's a great point because, I mean, I'm not a midfielder, so you look to take things from different players sometimes, and what I can add to my skill set. And I'm not going to take midfielder's actions, but his consistency every day in training. He was always the best one or two players in training, every day.

32:31For you, who was the best in training? Scholes. By a mile. I mean, if you had the games at the end of training, who's going to be your first pick? Scholes. In the small games? Always, because you're going to control the game. Always. And towards the end of his time at Man United, Cristiano would always win the game with a goal. He wouldn't be in the game a lot, but he'd win the game. But goals, controlling the momentum, the pace, the speed of the game. We had the same feeling with Iniesta in training. Iniesta. He's older than you, isn't he? He's older than you. Yeah, yeah. What is these guys like to play with, man?

33:07Because that was the best midfield I played against. Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets. You were growing up as a young kid. What were you seeing and thinking, watching these guys? How the hell I will play here? How is it? When they are getting old or something, I don't know. It was so wonderful to watch them play. And at the same time, you are in this learning things, but you want to play. You have those animals, these machines, and you say, where is my sport here? Where can I play? And you add that you have Jaya today, before he left to Man City. Then it came Fabregas as well. So I say, wow, we have here like multiple championship winners, World Cup winners.

33:54And it's not about it happened four years ago. It happened yesterday. So we say, okay, I have to deal with it. I have to learn. And when I have my chance, but it was a blessing to watch them play. And talking about other players at Barcelona, I saw you the first player. I'm sure lots of people are now asking you about this guy because you're coaching there, you coach there at Barcelona, Lamin, Yamao. Like how good can this kid be? The good thing to be in the coaching staff this year was because I just recently got out. I just retired. So I was in the pace to train with them to see how good players are or how the patterns they have.

34:45And when talking about small side games, he made a difference in those games. So you know that when he's in one side of two or three teams are there, the team will win. It was incredible. And it was incredible that we talk about these different young players that they are capable to go as fast as never in football with a ball and taking the smartest decision. So that's the difference between before and now, that now they're going faster. Probably they are less technical, less ability than before. But now they go faster in every game situation. But they are in that pace, they are taking the same decisions.

35:24And he's doing that, dribbling the way he's dribbling. So now the game is going that way. So they're running quicker, making the same quick decisions. With the ball. With the ball. With and without the ball. That's why they say now, football is more physical. It's more physical because they are capable to take decision going fast. So they're better than before? They're doing better in terms of doing the things faster. And probably when they slow down, we're better in our time. Because the society those days, kids, they don't give a shit for anything. And that's why. One of the reasons. What's his mentality like?

36:04Because football can be as good as it is, but if the mentality is wrong, it won't last. I don't think his mentality is wrong. He's just a young boy. He's very mature, to be fair, but now he's living this great life that he deserves to have and he will decide for sure if he wants to have a consistent career for many years playing at the highest level or he wants to just do my bit, I can live by my name. He will decide. I think he has everything to to be the best in the world for the next years. What would you say if you was given a young kid like that advice in terms of to get to the top but then stay there for a sustained period?

36:47Just to discover how to build your basic consistent routines and with that you just be free. You have to have this kind of balance between hard work and an artist. And he is now, when you are young, it's more the artist is coming through than the hard worker because hard worker. When I wake up, I drink my coffee, I do this, I do this. But then the artist is, I'm waking up and suddenly I'm painting a Picasso. So you have to just lever up and probably bring this, not putting this down, just bringing up the other one. Does he have that aura yet? Yes. Do you feel it already? Yes. As a teenager, he's got this already.

37:28Man, who is watching you, watching the football now, is they're younger than us and they follow, and probably they're following this kind of now life. You mentioned coaching there at Barca. Yeah. And I looked at the managers that you've played under. Pep, Klopp, who we've mentioned. Ancelotti. Yeah. Luis Enrique. Flick. Is this why you wanted to become a coach? Because of the level of coaches. I don't know if there's many players who've played under that level of coaches. I think something born inside of me in terms of being a coach. In my last year in Liverpool, just because I wasn't able to play, so I was trying to help even more, being not selfish in any kind of situation, just helping being in the back of others, how I can make them grow.

38:20And the thing is that with Hansi, is a coach that as a person I got, like how a coach must behave as a human being and how you can hold a group. And the best way to be a coach is not about it's important to have the badges, it's important to do the theory, but having inspirations through other coaches. So as a player, I did my learning curve with Pep, with Luis Enrique, with all those great coaches. But then when you say, okay, now I'm a coach, I want to be a coach, who is my reference? And I got the chance to, in this manager area, to be in the Stafford for a fancy league. That's crazy, man. Do you have any aims and ambitions?

39:11No, man. No, I didn't want to because I just retired. And I said, I want to live my life. But then the situation just came and I have to. I will kill myself if I don't leave or gave me the opportunity to leave that situation. So when the Liverpool job came up, were you interested or not? Which job? The Liverpool job. No, man, I don't have the badges. You don't have enough badges yet? No. I don't have the badges enough to be a coach. Oh, okay. Wow, man. Have you never thought about being a coach before? I was going to be a coach. I was going to be on the journey, sorry. I wanted to go on the journey.

39:47I was taking my badges, but my wife passed away. So when this happened, it kind of ruined all the desire because I had three children, three young children. So, like, you know, if you're going to be a coach or a manager, it's 100%, not 99 % commitment. So, and I couldn't do this at the time. So it kind of, that journey never took place in the end. So that's why I'm so interested in, like, other people's journeys and what's it like? How are you doing it? What's the steps, et cetera? So, yeah. Yeah, it's to have this adaptation in life that takes you through a way that you just are embracing this way and making yours or just, okay, it's not mine and then you go to another one.

40:30Yeah, yeah, exactly. These things shouldn't put you completely off the route. You go off, but you've got to come back on and you do your thing and the journey will be your journey. So yeah, so that's good. Back to you. Okay. So talking about coaching journeys, selection is obviously a real big thing, can make or break a coach. So I want to ask you to build a three-man midfield of current players that are playing now. I would say Momentum now, winning Premier League, I would go for defensive Declan Rice. And he's not playing as a defensive midfielder, but I would go for him. You think that's his best position?

41:07No. No, his best position is at number eight. But as a number eight, for me the best is Pedri. Ooh, I love this player. He's the best midfield player for me in the world right now. Is he? For me, yeah. Why, why? Because I trained with him when I was a player, and played with him when I was a player. And now, as a coach, I have the same feeling that I had with Iniesta at that time, of this plasticity while playing, like moving in all the time in diagonal and why you're moving you see what is happening around and taking the right decision so he's doing that he's reading the game while moving like moving like this and then i have to go with these two same profiles but before number 10 i want to pick him is vitina from psg now he's in a momentum that he can go in the build up he can arrive in the box and make long shots as well.

42:08I have to pick him. Those three, I think. More on Declan Rice. What do you think he can develop into and become? Whatever he wants. He's so smart. So smart and he has a desire to be a better player. So if you say to him, you have to be better in this, he will do everything that is in his hands to be better in that. Now he's just building and trying to create a philosophy of how Arsene must play in the middle because he's smart, he reads and he studies the rival's movements. He does his. He's good on the set pieces. He's physical, great. And on ball, he plays. And you see him playing, going, receiving, driving to the box.

43:00He has everything. Good. That's a nice midfielder. I like it. Yeah. In terms of just saying on the coaching, in terms of unlocking players, because I think that's a big thing for coaches as well, because not everything's perfect. Sometimes you're going to get players that are a puzzle that you have to unlock sometimes. I'd love to know what your advice would be to a young player who has huge potential, but we're not quite seeing it consistently. Maybe like a Kobi Menuh, who now is playing, but before he was in a situation where it wasn't going for him. What's your advice to those young type of players?

43:35Well, I think it happened to all of us when we were young. It's about, first of all, the conversation with the coach. The coach, you have to understand sometimes, is you create that distance between player and coach and respect him as a boss. And he's a human and he will understand your position as a young player to what I need to have this conversation, match your conversation, to say, what I need to have more options to play in the team or what you need from me to be better. I think that's the first conversation because you can do weights or you can run, but maybe it's because you're a defensive midfield player and you're not hitting properly the ball and you don't know.

44:21So having this mature conversation with your coach and second, just having this great balance between what we say the hard worker and the artist. I think when you reach top leagues as a young guy and you're there and you're thinking that you will win the Ballon d 'Or and sadly you're not playing. So hard work. What do I have to do to be better? I remember I saw you for Barca on a pre-season tour. You actually scored the winning goal, I think, on tour against United in America. Yeah. I remember then thinking, well, this kid looks top player. But you played in the 10 position then, a little bit, 8-10.

45:05I played that preseason, I don't know why, as a number 9. Yeah, yeah. I never played in my life as a 4s 9 or a number 9. Did you end up playing in the 6 position, sometimes the 8, but by default? And do you think that you was meant to have maybe been a 10? Did you grow up thinking I was going to be a 10? I was a 10. I was a 10 going back to an 8 and then going back to a 6. So as a young player, how did you deal with that? Was it just, OK, wherever you want me? Or was you arguing with yourself a little bit? No, because it was a kind of a player that threw me everything you want because it's football.

45:44Every demand you want from me, I will do it. So when they threw me as a number 8, I said, OK, now comes the more defensive aspect of the game. I did when I was young. Why I won't do it now? so I did it as a number six I have to understand how my six behave on the pitch so I try to first mirror it then do it by myself the way I want to do it so it was all the time learning and growing with it and I ask you this as well because Kobe Emmanuel I love this player I love it too where would you play him 10, 6 or 8 8 I would play him because he's capable to defend to be aggressive but then with the ball He's able to help the defenders to bring the ball to the players who will decide the game.

46:33He's able to dribble, to rip the ball, to score goals. So you're an eight. Because with the way he behaves on a pitch, you couldn't leave him as number 10. They're pressing the defenders. You have to leave him in the middle as a number eight, knowing that there's someone behind him kicking someone because if he gets in the ball, he will give it and he can progress with the ball and arrive to the box. And if the number six needs some help, he will come to help. So for me, it's a lemonade. Is there anything you would add to his game that you'd say, you know, I think if you had this, this can change a lot for you?

47:14He's young and he's sometimes because of the motivation to play games at a young age, you just overdo things. And sometimes he wants to do more than he should do in the game, but for his age he's winning amazingly. I can't speak to you without speaking about Neymar as well. He joined when he was leaving Barcelona. Yeah. And I looked back and he said something very light. I was like, whoa, I knew he was good. But he said, you as a player, he thought was technically superior to him. Who, me? Yeah. He said that? Yeah, I saw a quote from him. Yeah. Like, what do you think about that? Man, technically, I was really good in football.

48:00That's an understatement. Come on, man. No, no, no, no. I was really good technically. Yes, but it's not about to be technically. You have to be decisive in a game. It's not about I was not good in juggling, but in game situation, I was very technical. but then if you see the names at the end of the day are the guys who are saving a goal or who are scoring a goal and we were mutual players were just in the middle to say to them no you did a nice job come on but it's the way we are but to have this huge technique to be decisive to score that amount of goals to be important as a young age for your team doesn't matter from Santos for Barcelona He was incredible.

48:52He was just different. He dominates both legs. He scores from different distances. Great on set pieces. Great defending because the best defenders are the strikers. So man, he was complete everywhere in all game statements. I wish he stayed in Barca. You can't dictate someone's journey. But if he stays Barca, wow. Yeah, we never know. You never know. It's what we said about Ronaldinho. If Ronaldinho cut the parties and the way he is, he will never be Ronaldinho. I agree. Imagine that we have him in Barcelona for so many years, sad and normal. What did he say? Have you won a party? No, no, no. He stayed home watching Netflix.

49:35He's not going to be the stage. It's not him. It's not Joe Bonito. Who are you? It's not him. No, no, it's true. It's not him. Your technical ability, was that natural or was it hard work? No, it's not true. Mine was natural. Is it? Like what? You just woke up and you were playing football, you could do anything? I had the luck to have a brother that we are less than two years apart from each other. So we went to my dad's training. Everything that the players did on training, like technical things, we did and we did like this. Wow. That's lucky, man. And we played Brazilian futsal so that you have to do those technical things in faster, let's say, challenges.

50:15Wow. So everything was coming very natural. And probably the competition between you was strong. Yeah, but was very healthy. And he was lucky me. He was a goalkeeper at the beginning. Oh, is he? So you was always shooting the ball? It was perfect for me. I was perfect. I said, okay, okay. You want to be a goalkeeper? Yeah, yeah, but you stay there. Stay there. And was a bless. Was a bless for him. You've spoken about two managers. You have a brother that was a football player as well. He was seven years younger. Seven years. So I was like, dad, slap, shut up. But it was good. No, I think it was good.

50:48I helped him. He helped me. So it's the best thing when your family is playing football as well. You know what I mean? So I understand. We grew through football. Like our education is through sports. My mom was a volleyball player. My dad was a football player. So we say, okay, everything that values in life is through sports. And it's parallels through sport and life. There's a lot of parallels. It's true. Just to talk about one more manager. and he's important because he's at the World Cup. Yeah. Carlo Ancelotti. And I think you had one of your best seasons under him. Yeah. Why did you work so well together with him?

51:24As I told you, I'm very, in terms of relationships, I'm very simple. Like, it affects me when I have a coach that is very distanced. It's cold in a negative way, but affects me in positive when I have a very warm person next to you and very humble, very simple as I am. So at that time, Carlo was the first. Carlo Ancelotti. AC Milan. Come on. And sadly, he is I talk about simple things like life. I have to talk about Seedorf. I have to talk about Maldivi, Nesta. No. He's talking about weather, the family, the dog, the river. And then about football, I have a football sickness and to talk about old players, I was amazed.

52:23So it was a very simple conversation that makes you feel more comfortable as well in the group. So I think that's why from first you feel yourself just to perform. That's crazy. I love Ancelotti. I think his blend of tactical awareness, but human and humble side, I think, is a great blend. And he has this feeling for experienced players, technical players, and he's the best, knowing which games I should put those players. That's why he's there, because he knows a lot about football, and he knows which players must play this game. That's the one thing I think he has a big similarity with Sodec Surgesson.

53:06You can be. Knowing when to put players in, when to take them out, which players to blend together. It's a big... How was it Alex, in general? He was... the manager that I have, he was the best because he was just... He didn't treat everyone the same. He treated you because your personality demands something different to me, to him, to him. So he's... some managers are like, oh, all the same. all this we're going to do everything this is he was very good at connecting emotionally with people and like you said he wouldn't really talk to us about tactics or lots of players and that he knew if your mother your mother was ill the flowers would turn up like he was a very he connected emotionally if he something was going on in your life come let's talk let's go for a walk and so that's why you see Cristiano as a big respect and relationship even many years after some things happen in Cristiano's personal life the manager the way he dealt with it it will stay with him for life and these things sometimes are stronger than tactics structure training sessions it's more of a connection that when the time is tough in a game you're going to run all day.

54:27And what happened with players when they are more shy? For example, I remember Kagawa. He was under him, right? He's Japanese, shy, but very technical. How was the relationship? How he can blend it? For instance, me or Rooney or Giggs, he could go crazy and shout. These guys, Ji Sung Park, great team player. Big moments, he stepped up. Kagawa, fantastic technical footballer. he would treat them differently and he would approach them differently. That's it. So that's a real big strength of his. I'm sure Carlo, it seems like he has one of these things. So yeah, man, I like the managers. They were great.

55:05Well, you know what? The last thing we'd want to do with you, I think we always have the players select the top five players that they played with. Oh. Not including the goalkeepers because goalkeepers, they don't really know. They don't play football. Different sport. No defender neither, or no? Wow. Anything. The best five players. It doesn't have to be structured, just the best five in your five-a-side team. I would break it down in Barcelona as a player, Bayern as a player, Liverpool as a player, national team as a player and then Barcelona now as a coach. I would break it down like that. So Barcelona as a player, I would say, I take Messi because if not, I would say just Messi and he will be the five.

55:53Let's say Sergio Busquets. Busquets. How good is he? Just quickly. I tell everybody this is one of the best players I've played against. One touch. Because the people, he's one of my closest, closest friends and people don't know how competitive he is. And I think his best talent is that. He's so competitive. So I think that's a first. And he's so competitive that he will know how to hurt you from the first second. He knew how to hurt me. You know this. You know why? In Wembley, we played against Barcelona. And they were winning, but they were killing us. And I went to get the throw on, the ball, and he was doing it.

56:36I said, give me that ball. He said, hey, you, Wittich. Boom, boom, boom. He killed me. He killed me. He ripped my heart out this time. I felt this big. So when you speak to him, please ask him why. What's going on there? Was Wembley game or was Wembley? Yeah, Wembley. Oh, man. I was in that game. You went? Yeah. Oh, the coolness. Man, was... He was amazing. It was incredible. I think it was the most, sorry, was the most familiar game I've ever seen. But it's about that. It's about how he reads the game and how he makes you feel uncomfortable playing football. And that is not messy, that he will kill you.

57:14It's about, like, having the ball, taking you the ball here, here, like a magician. Yeah, yeah. I would say him. So Messi, Busquets. No, take out Messi. Messi, we don't count because everybody will put Messi in this five. Busquets. Bayern Munich. Let's put Frank Ribéry there in that conversation. Left, right. He can go, whatever. Cubans, everyone. I was between him and Philippe Lambert. Frank Ribéry to have someone to score goals.

57:47Liverpool. let's say bobby but a national team i would say oh man sorry some good teams though there's been some big teams beckham had a great team seedles team was crazy yeah i don't want to make crazy teams because now i would say xavi miesta messi all these guys and it's very typical i'll say on the dog names i would say ramos 12 defender. And then in those days, Pedri. Pedri. Pedri as a player I coached. Over Yamal?

58:29It's because I see a midfield player performing the way he's performing for so many years and Lamine is outrageous but the last, let's say, three years. Just to change it again, Lamine Yamal, Can he get to the best player in the world? Yeah, yeah. He can. He was about the last year with the Mele. So why not in the next... Now with the World Cup, he's playing good. He made a massive change for Spain. And why not the next years? Okay. So to manage your team, who will be the manager? Out of all these great managers that you have. Oh, man. Don't need that. I need more help now for the managers than for the players, because the players, I already play with them.

59:17Nothing to do, but managers, man. I would make a blend between Luis Enrique, Pep, Klopp, Hansi, I would make a blend. Then you'd have the best manager ever. Pep by far was, like in terms of being a player and understanding the game, was the best. Wow. So Pep will manage Pedri, Ramos, Busquets, Firmino, Firmino and Ribéry. Good team man. Thiago, thanks a lot for your time man. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Great to see you man.

1:00:39We'll be right back. Wayfair's 4th of July clearance now through July 6th at Wayfair.com.