Ryan Giggs: We haven’t got a PROPER Winger | Why United failed vs Man City

0:00Ryan Giggs: Most women have been there. Something feels off. You don't feel like yourself. Yet your doctor says everything looks fine. Spoiler, it's your hormones. Midi is a virtual care platform built for women by women and offers specialized hormone care from trained clinicians. Plus, it's covered by most major insurances. Getting started is easy. You can book your first visit with a clinician right away. It's not you. It's your hormones. Visit joinmidi.com to book your first visit. That's joinmidi.com. Insurance coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage.

0:32Joel Beya: Are you trying to say the fullbacks, there weren't as much to blame as everybody has said?

0:36Stephen Howson: No, sometimes the ball hit the first man or went too far and went out of play. Some poor crosses. But I'm trying to give them a little bit of defence that actually I'm in the wide area and I'm looking up and there's no one really in the box or there's Kunja in the box who's not a recognised centre forward. So I'm thinking this has got to be perfect. I'm a positive person and there's going to be massive negativity around United because it's Man United but last two games two worldies and a goal that shouldn't have stand they don't go in I know it's football but it's fine margins so it's not all bad but the results why are you shaking your head?

1:19Stephen Howson: Ryan positive geeks

1:26Joel Beya: Welcome back to a special episode of Rio Presents. My name is Joel Baer. I'm here with my guy, Stephen Housen, looking in great form. And I'm saying it's a special episode. Even though Rio's not here, we've got a substitution. But I don't even want to say...

1:39Ryan Giggs: It's not a bad sub, is it?

1:40Joel Beya: It's not really a bad sub itself. I want to say this guy is unbelievable. I'm on my best behaviour today. You guys know I love the jokes, but I'm sitting here with 13 Premier League titles. The guy that's got more Premier League titles, more than Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool combined. it's getting a bit awkward here you've also got the most appearances in a Manchester derby ladies and gentlemen two Champions Leagues as well I keep thinking oh my god the one and only Mr Ryan Giggs

2:09Stephen Howson: thank you

2:10Ryan Giggs: can I just ask do you have a room in your house with all your trophies and medals no why

2:17Stephen Howson: because when I was playing I never wanted to sort of look back I always wanted to look forward and then I finished and then you go into coaching and then you sort of like it sounds blasé but you're sort of like not bothered. And yeah, I think they're in the National Football Museum, but there's a few scattered about as well, aren't there? You think? I think, yeah.

2:37Ryan Giggs: You got like a thousand appearances as well. So you must have swapped some shirts. Is there any that you went, oh yeah, I'm having that and you know where that one is? Or have you just got them all dashed in the cupboard somewhere?

2:47Stephen Howson: I was awful at swapping shirts. I was a bit stubborn that I would never ask anyone either. They would have to ask me. so I got a few when I played for Wales I think I got Stoichkov and Schifo and early doors but for United I never really swapped many

3:03Joel Beya: any top players that asked you

3:05Stephen Howson: I think Zadana asked me once

3:07Joel Beya: really yeah which game

3:11Stephen Howson: Juventus away for us was that like

3:14Ryan Giggs: was that 96

3:15Stephen Howson: I think it was yeah 96 or 97 so I

3:17Ryan Giggs: there's a boring fact I'm going to throw everyone here because El Adel Sport has only ever given 10s out up until that game twice. One was you, one was Maradona.

3:26Stephen Howson: Really? Yeah.

3:27Ryan Giggs: So they're quite notoriously

3:32Stephen Howson: Stingy. Yeah, on their ratings.

3:34Ryan Giggs: Like they didn't really give nines. They don't really give tens. And I think you got a 10 and Maradona got a 10 for whatever game that was with Maradona. I mean,

3:40Joel Beya: amongst all your accolades, right? Yeah,

3:42Ryan Giggs: he's more arsed about getting a 10 in a newspaper than 13 Premier League titles. Amongst all your accolades,

3:48Joel Beya: you are one of the first players to wear tights in a game, actually. I remember it was you came was it against Manchester is it in the Manchester derby yeah and it was in 2005 yourself and Ronaldo came on the final score was 2-0 Rooney scored and there was a known goal but do we have the image of Ryan in tights please can we put it up on screen please look at that

4:10Stephen Howson: can we put it in context I had hamstring problems it was a cold Manchester day and I got well I got advised to wear tights just to you're coming onto a cold pitch so make sure that you protect the hamstrings. But yeah, it was probably the wrong ground to do it at because I just got hammered the whole time I was on the pitch, which I do anyway, but Manchester derby. Was that Etihad on main road? Was it the Etihad?

4:38Joel Beya: Was Sir Alex all right with that or is it one of the...

4:40Stephen Howson: I don't think he even knew. I think he'd give it like a, what is he doing? Because obviously I had the tracksuit bottoms warming up over it. and then yeah yeah but one that I regret that I think should have just gone with old DP or Wintergreen

4:55Ryan Giggs: it literally just makes your skin tingle it does absolutely nothing

4:59Joel Beya: now I want to focus it on the topic at hand I mean obviously Manchester United losing 1-0 yesterday at home against Man City in a derby against 10 men you know not great I actually needed United to do me a favour yesterday well VAR counts as a man

5:14Ryan Giggs: so let's just call it 11-11

5:15Joel Beya: yeah I mean you know when you look at the performance itself.

5:20Ryan Giggs: So what? Normally I'm going to answer, but Ryan, go on.

5:24Stephen Howson: No, I think it was obviously a disappointing performance. I think like every United fan, City go down to 10 men. It's going to be a tough game, obviously against City. I actually still fancied us before the game just because of Michael's record at home. I just fancied us. But we actually, when it went down to 10 men, just didn't perform. and I think like every United fan, City go down to 10 men, right, we've got this. We're going to win this game and the disappointment when we didn't win the game is obviously huge. The mana adds to that as well but yeah, it wasn't a great performance and obviously not a great result either.

6:06Ryan Giggs: They created nothing but we created nothing. Now, I don't know if we created nothing because we didn't have the space or we weren't playing with enough risk but the only chance that they created and the only shot that they had was from, in my opinion, our full-backs ballsing it up.

6:21Joel Beya: Yeah. I mean, when you look at it, Ryan, you played against 10 men. As a coach, right, what do you expect for Man United to do, especially at home at Old Trafford?

6:29Stephen Howson: Well, there's a number of things. I mean, first of all, you have to make the pitch as big as possible because the reason you do that is because City players don't have to run five yards now. They have to run 10 yards. And first of all, that's difficult on its own. But then the last 20 minutes, that's when it kicks in. You see the last 15, 20 minutes, City players still look fresh because we hadn't stretched the ball, we hadn't run in behind. The players that we've got on the pitch are all good footballers. They're not players who will make unselfish runs. Sometimes you have to make unselfish runs knowing you're not going to get the ball.

7:06Stephen Howson: But the impact it has on the City back line, on the City team is huge. And eventually you will find a way. Now, you know, I've played in loads of games. you're in the stretch for density. You're expecting that wave after wave after wave and it just didn't come. When we did stretch the game, it felt like that the wrong players were on the ball as well. And I mean, wrong players as in the fullbacks who aren't the ones who are expected to break down teams. Now, when you stretch the team, you have to move the ball quickly. Why do you do that? It's because it's to unsettle the opposition. Don't make them feel comfortable.

7:46Stephen Howson: And also a big thing, which probably no one talks about, is when you lose the ball, winning it back, that kills the opposition. Because instead of having comfortable possession, which City had, and they then go up the pitch and a United player has to sprint back, if you win the ball back quickly and keep recycling it, it breaks their heart. It makes them tired. And it also thinks, geez, not another wave. And you will see fullbacks then not sprinting out to the wide areas, but jogging because they're tired. Never seen that. You've seen Elliot Anderson last five minutes. He's still closing down.

8:22Stephen Howson: He's still sharp. It looks like he could have run for another half an hour because we didn't play the ball quick enough because we didn't make the runs in behind because we didn't win the ball back quickly. So, yeah, I did feel that we didn't stretch them enough. We didn't play the ball quickly enough. And then when we did get in the right positions, just the quality wasn't there. the one protection the one sort of defence that I have for the full backs is without a recognised centre forward it does feel like they get the ball and thinking to themselves this has got to be a perfect cross because there's no real out and out centre forward in centre forwards think differently most centre forwards who are goal scorers not even interested in the build up, they just want to get in the box and occupy high the centre-halves, make what I call stupid runs, but just run offside, just affect the back line.

9:20Stephen Howson: Cunha and Buemo, Marcus to a certain extent, although I think Marcus is a little bit more he-will running behind, and of course Bruno, they all come towards the ball.

9:29Joel Beya: Are you trying to say the full-backs, there weren't as much to blame as everybody has said?

9:33Stephen Howson: No, sometimes the ball hit the first man or went too far and went out of play. Some shit crosses. Yeah, some poor crosses. but I'm trying to give them a little bit of defense that actually I'm in the wide area and I'm looking up and there's no one really in the box or there's Kunja in the box who's not a recognized center forward. So I'm thinking this has got to be perfect or I'm going to have to cut this back or I'm going to have to come back, recycle until we actually get someone in the box. Seska wasn't fit enough, I don't think, to start. I thought he he should have come on at half time because there's the intent and also you have that focal point who will occupy the centre halves

10:17Joel Beya: Steve you've got to talk about your frustration Dugu the same thing

10:21Ryan Giggs: the frustrations one because they ended up with the most ball and there's obviously reasons for that you know your wingers are going to get marked generally the people that are free are either going to be the deepest midfielder because they've sat off him or it's your full backs they're the people that end up with the ball quite often And I thought their delivery from both sides was awful. You might be right that there wasn't really a focal point, but even when Sesco came on, did he have one good cross that he had? No, and I think we'd, wasn't just them. Bruno's crossing was poor when he got into good areas.

10:52Cunha was crossing it for Cunha somehow,

10:55Ryan Giggs: or he's meant to have been crossing it for Cunha. And Bumo's crossing was, it was just wayward. Everyone's crossing was wayward. And I'm trying to go, well, was it City? Was City pressing us a little bit in the right areas? And I don't think it was. I think we had time to deliver, and we just didn't deliver good crosses. But I wanted to ask, when you're talking about the speed of play, are you talking about in the final third going laterally left to right, trying to probe and look for something? Or are we going from back to front? Because I think, arguably, both the speed to play, going from back to front, we didn't get in behind them anywhere near enough.

11:29Ryan Giggs: Within Bermot and Marcus, surely you're thinking that's probably our biggest threat to them is they're going to push right up to the halfway line. Can we do two or three passes and get it over the top into an area where Marcus could run onto a free ball rather than having to beat a man? We played it to feet, it felt like too much. And then when we did get in the final third and City have got 10 men behind the ball, it felt like it was deliberate and it was safe, but it was lacking a little bit of a snap.

11:59Stephen Howson: Yeah. A lot of the players want to come and get on the ball because it's easy. and they get a touch of the ball. I touched on before, unselfish runs in behind. The two chances that we had, that great reverse ball from Bruno to Marcus, that's a run in behind, even though it's on the edge of the box. I'm not talking about... Oh, good, yeah, yeah. First half. Yeah, 20, 30 yard runs in behind. I don't think Marcus expected it, did he? No, he didn't expect it. It was a brilliant ball and it would have been a brilliant goal. And then the chance at the end, Mbwemo, he's on the back line. It's not... It's penetrating run.

12:31Stephen Howson: It's a great ball again from Bruno and he gets a chance. That's the only times that I can really remember us running in behind. And what I talk about speed of pass, you've seen Martinez and Harri just passing it. Harland didn't have to do anything. So then when he gets the ball, Harland, he's fresh. He's not had to like... Now, what I talk about speed of play is if there's space to run into, run into it and dribble to pass. So dribble to pass to someone else on the ball because someone has to come out eventually. And I don't think we did that enough, but we also haven't got a proper winger. Mbwemo, you could call, is sort of in between.

13:15Stephen Howson: Sure, yeah. Marcus, of course he plays on the left, and I think he started the season really sharp and looked really well. Is he an out-and-out winger where he's right-footed? It's the old thing where left foot is on the right, right foot is on the left, which I...

13:29Joel Beya: This is modern football. It is modern football. I see the same thing when I go, So, I mean, that's just what it's like. But I think sometimes with him, is he still caught up in the, is he a number nine? Is he a on the left kind of player? I don't know.

13:41Stephen Howson: Yeah. So, you're not going to get that out of his feet and cross. It is the one, the in-swinger. Yeah. And even with in-swingers, you need centre-forwards because they make the runs in between the centre-halves. They'll make the runs at the near post for a flick on. They're different runs than Cunha and Buemo, even Bruno. They're just different. They've built differently centre-forwards where they know where the ball is going to end up.

14:07Ryan Giggs: It seems like United's forwards are just waiting for someone to do something rather than taking the initiative. Anytime someone pulled their head up, everyone's still. And you're right, Marcus is the one that I think does tend to make the most speculative runs just on the off chance. But there's so little movement in our forward line. Yeah.

14:27Stephen Howson: You've seen it against Everton, them sort of patterns of play first half and it looked like the midfield were just starting to get a relationship together. But it still felt that everything had to be perfect. And sometimes you've got to score scruffy goals or sometimes you've got to score percentage goals. Not all the time, but you can't play perfect football all the time. And sometimes you just have to get the ball wide and put it in the box, but you need runs. City's goal, I know it's not a goal, but Fernandes is running in Harland's back post they've got the people in the right places it's a decent enough cross but it's not perfect football it's a cross out wide yeah United have made mistakes but it ends up being the winning goal

15:11Joel Beya: I mean you mentioned earlier on you felt like the full backs had to be perfect or play perfect balls in there how do you improve the full backs in the third part of the pitch because clearly they do need to put in better balls or they need to vary their play.

15:26Stephen Howson: Well, can I tell you something? If we're building up and the ball goes out to Marcus and Dogu runs inside, I'm telling him what you're doing. Stay away. Because you're bringing the foot, you're bringing the winger back. I'm one-on-one with my fullbacks. Perfect. The ball's come out to me. I'm wide. I'm one-on-one. I can beat him. What the fullbacks sometimes do is go early. And then that just kills your space as a winger. The wide man comes back. You've got the full-back to beat then. Stay away. Stay away. Every now and again, if I cut inside, overlap. Because then you're on your left foot. Dallal the other side, you're on your right foot.

16:04Stephen Howson: But just please stay away. And what that does also is, if we do lose the ball, they're in the right position to recycle it. Instead of being ahead of everyone, the furthest man forward, and then City get out, they play out, and they get a rest. City got loads of rest because they've got good players who can keep the ball, and they progress up the pitch, and United have to run back. So, yeah, as you can tell in my voice, it's frustrating because, you know, we had a real big chance to get a result. And yeah, it wasn't a goal, but it was a frustrating afternoon.

16:36Ryan Giggs: Would you have told Dennis Erwin us that way?

16:38Stephen Howson: Yeah, I would have. Yeah. Yeah. Because he could cross a ball. Yeah, he could. And I'm not saying every time you've got to obviously have that variety and mix it up. Dennis, you're killing my space. That's my job. but then if you do get doubled up early then Dennis is free.

16:55Joel Beya: Don't you think that's instructions from coaching though? No, that's players.

17:01Stephen Howson: That's players. You've got to see it sometimes on the pitch.

17:04Ryan Giggs: Do you think there is enough of that though? Because it feels to me like a lot of players outsource all of their decision making to the coaching staff or that's what it feels like now. I don't feel like there's enough bollocks on the pitch where people go, no, this is what we're doing.

17:16Stephen Howson: Yeah, I don't know. And you mentioned Dennis. I had a brilliant relationship with Dennis. I had a brilliant relationship with Patrice later on. And you do have to have relationships on the pitch. Mine would be with my number 10. So it'd be a Cantona, it'd be a York, it'd be a Sheringham, it'd be a Rooney because I'm going to be closest to them. But also Dennis, Patrice, also I know where, you know, Rude, I know where Hughes, I know where Cantona, I know where all their runs are going to be. So when you have that split second to make a decision, you know more or less where these players are going to be.

17:52Stephen Howson: So that is players' relationship. And still a lot of these players are new, trying to still find the strengths and weaknesses. But relationships on a football pitch are massive. And you see, your team, the difference, Ben White and Saka. Yeah, it's true. It's without even thinking. So a lot of people have talked about it. Don't cast them up. No, but it is. It's just you can see it happening. so it's up to the players to just I used to say to Dennis Dennis first pass as soon as he gets on your right foot I'm running in behind might not get it but what it does the full backs instantly thinking am I going to have to be running 20 yards at all game for this Jesus it's going to be hard so you set in the mindset straight away so is Marcus talking to Dogu is and when we're talking to Dallot and that community I don't know only they could tell us that but it's really important that you do and when I get wide this is the ball so Marcus is going to be more in swingers right as soon as I get it on my right foot what are the forwards thinking what runs are they making and of course it doesn't happen every time but over a season more often than not it will right

19:04Joel Beya: still loads to come on this pod we'll be back shortly after this

19:15Joel Beya: host. Hey Barry. Hello. Now, although every American found us during the World Cup, for the two that didn't, what can they expect? Found us and fell in love with us, Max.

19:24Ryan Giggs: They can expect three episodes each week of occasionally insightful analysis covering the Premier League, Champions League, and beyond. Football Weekly is back. Watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts. Most women have been there. Something feels off. You don't feel like yourself. Yet your doctor says everything looks fine. Spoiler, it's your hormones. Midi is a virtual care platform built for women by women and offers specialized hormone care from trained clinicians. Plus, it's covered by most major insurances. Getting started is easy. You can book your first visit with a clinician right away.

19:57Ryan Giggs: It's not you, it's your hormones. Visit joinmidi.com to book your first visit. That's joinmidi.com. Insurance coverage varies. Check with your plan for coverage.

20:09Ryan Giggs: obviously Marcus is right footed obviously he was left footed what run would you want from Sesco for Marcus or would you ask Sesco where he wants it which which which direction does that

20:21Stephen Howson: conversation come from well Sesco so as soon as Marcus gets you on his right foot I would be saying he runs across the near post for that you know I wouldn't say bad cross but that cross that isn't into the keeper. So if you're running across, it affects the goalkeeper, but then you need a Bruno or Mbwemo in behind that. If it is over-hit, you're just making sure that you have all the areas covered. If it's a cross that's under-hit, if it's a cross that's over-hit. Not bigging myself up here. No, I'm not bigging myself up, but Norwich City away, Ashley Young gets the ball on his right foot. I was playing midfield, I think, and I know that the ball could end up on the back post and it did.

21:07Stephen Howson: As soon as I see it, it's on his right foot, right, okay. And Scolzi, I think, was in the middle. I was at the back and then you had the centre forward running. So you've got everything covered for every cross. Overhit, it eventually came to me. If it's underhit, it's going to the centre forward. Didn't feel like we had all them areas covered. When did you see the city centre halves scurrying around and panicking or having to move? last ditch tackles, it should be, I talked about it before, it should be wave after wave after wave.

21:39Joel Beya: Yeah. I mean, I was going to ask that question about relationships. Who do you think you had the best relationships with? Not just talking about your left backs, talking about when you go on the pitch and you go, oh, there's some real chemistry here.

21:53Stephen Howson: Loads, loads of play. I mean, Eric, Cantona instantly.

21:58Ryan Giggs: Just talk for about 75 minutes about Cantona.

22:01Stephen Howson: No, Cantona instantly. Just decision-making, when to give you the ball, the pace of pass, not even speaking. You know, I talk about communication. Sometimes it just happens. Scolese was the same.

22:18Stephen Howson: Bex. Bex, as soon as he got it onto that right foot, I would sometimes as a left winger run across that near post for that very rare bad cross or under hit cross, but it affects the back line. Other times I would be at the back post. You just knew, I mean, listen, you've got someone with the best right foot that's probably ever lived. So you know that the quality is coming, but they're the kind of players that I didn't even have to think about. And later on was Robin Van Persie because his runs were just, his movement was ridiculous. But I could go on, you know, rude. Andy Cole, Yorkie, Teddy, they were all just intelligent.

23:00Stephen Howson: So, you know, Wayne, just intelligent players. So it's easy. Makes your job easy.

23:05Ryan Giggs: Real goes on about him and Rooney arguing on the pitch quite often, just shouting at each other. I don't remember you shouting that much on the pitch, but who did you usually get into it with on the pitch?

23:18Stephen Howson: A lot of the centre-forwards. If I didn't put the ball in the box, they would have a pop at me. If I put the ball in the box and they weren't there, I would have a pop at them. And it's healthy. It is. It's healthy. And it can spill into the changing rooms at halftime maybe. But then once you go out second half, you have got a bit of right. I'm going to put the ball in the box and you better be there. It's that mentality really. It's healthy sort of falling outs, which ultimately get you the right result.

23:48Ryan Giggs: He's spoken about walking into a changing room with you and Roy Keating and stuff like that. What was your first impression of him when he walked in?

23:57Stephen Howson: when we knew that, because I'd obviously played against Rio when he played for West Ham and Leeds,

24:06Stephen Howson: we were getting the best centre-half in Europe. That was my instant sort of, we're like fans. When you see that we've signed like the likes of Rio or Rooney or Seba Varon, you know, you're like, can't wait to train with these guys.

24:20Ryan Giggs: I'm glad you mentioned Varon. I jumped on the sofa when we signed Varon. I was so fucking excited.

24:23Stephen Howson: Yeah, but you are, you're excited because you've seen these players and you're just, wow, this is just going to be unbelievable. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But when Rio came, we knew that we were, we were going to go up a level. Yeah. And his first training sessions weren't great. And, you know, it's, we talk about giving stick and a healthy stick out, you know, as soon as he gives the ball away, how much, how much we pay for this guy, you know, but that's just banter. And Rio just, yeah, he ended up being one of the best trainers, is obviously one of the best players that's ever played for United.

24:56Stephen Howson: Apparently Keane shouted at him one of the early training sessions. Keane shouts at everyone.

25:02Joel Beya: Last one on the tangent, right? You spoke about Rooney and signing players and being fans. What were you thinking when he told you he's going to take that free kick on his debut before he scored? I've always wanted to know. How did he have the confidence to go to tell you, don't worry, I've got this. And you actually gave him the chance. What were you thinking? To me, that's crazy.

25:22Stephen Howson: It was for his hat trick though, wasn't it? I'm not precious like that. And if it's someone's hat trick on his debut, you know, someone like that, give him the chance.

25:30Ryan Giggs: What was the change of him like after that? Because I know it was like as a fan, our heads was just off with what we've just seen. Yeah.

25:37Stephen Howson: But you knew that he was special and he was injured. He came to the club obviously injured. Was that October as a moment? Yeah. So he hadn't played, he hadn't started the season. So, yeah. I mean, I talk about the first time that I come up against him at Everton and he just went past me as if I wasn't there. I went, what has just happened there? Who is this kid here? And so again, I'm excited for when he comes to the club, but yeah, you don't get better debuts than that. But I'm not precious like that. You know, I'm not a, it's his hat trick, it's his debut.

26:08Ryan Giggs: It was an 18-year-old kid taking a free kick off Ryan Giggs. Yeah, but how did he say it?

26:12Stephen Howson: And I'd already scored that game, so I was happy.

26:14Joel Beya: But how did he say it? Like, was he, what was it like?

26:18Stephen Howson: Yeah, probably just look, I fancy this. Typical Wayne style. And then I would just go, go on then. Go on then. Go on then, lads.

26:28Joel Beya: Unreal. Taking it back to Sesco.

26:30Ryan Giggs: Do we have to talk in model football? Well, I know.

26:32Joel Beya: I know. It's mad, isn't it? Taking it back to Sesco, obviously, he's injured, you know, or he really hasn't had pre-season. They're trying to bleed him back into the team. But Man United look better with him and the team. Like, why is that? What does he do that improves United?

26:50Stephen Howson: We have to be careful because he's still a young centre-forward. He's still learning. So we have to be careful to big him up as this amazing player. He's screaming out for it because he plays the position of centre-forward. And again, from a wide player's perspective, it's much easier when you have got a centre-forward in the box or you're further up the pitch, you've got to play balls in behind. whereas when he's not on the pitch it's very much it feels like everything's got to be perfect with the players that we've got on the pitch so he's a talent he gets chances he gets chances all the time which for a centre forward is is gold dust doesn't always put them away but he's still a still a player who's learning who's getting better and you know I keep talking about it but they're gaining them relationships with his teammates

27:48Joel Beya: I heard you talking to Rio about meeting Elliot Anderson, which I thought was a good point. Please make sure you watch the debrief on Rio Ferdinand Presents. Amazing stuff with Rio and 10 gigs. How good is Elliot Anderson?

28:04Stephen Howson: him? He's a good player. He's a solid player. He's a no-brainer because obviously he's a British player, good age, Premier League experience. I don't think he's a top, top midfielder. When you talk about the best ever midfielders in the Premier League, that may come. But he was impressive the other day and his energy, his quality on the ball. He plays the position. look like him and Enzo have just struck up a relationship straight away. He's a good player.

28:35Joel Beya: I mean, obviously, nothing to do with him, by the way, this, but obviously the fees are like, you know,£130 million. How much are you worth in today's modern game? How much do you think?

28:46Ryan Giggs: How old are you now? £50.

28:47Joel Beya: £52. No, I'm just kidding. Pete Giggs, I don't know, man. The numbers are so scary.

28:55Ryan Giggs: What is peak gigs? What do you feel like was your peak? Because I think you was world-class in two positions, which is mad rare. And I wonder if you actually might have played more in midfield than you did on the left.

29:05Stephen Howson: Yeah, I loved the first part. I mean, listen, I loved my whole career, but I loved 19, 20-year-old, you know, just fearless, just take quick, you know. I love that, but also 35 to 40. Why? I loved it. Why? Because I played more in midfield. I got more of the ball. as a wide man, you're relying on service. And I just felt you've got the experience and just everything just seems, it's like slowing, you know, you're just confident and it's just slowing down and it's not slowing down, but it's just in your mind. It's just like, right, calm. And I had brilliant players around me. The later on in my career, you know, I talked about Robin Van Persie before, Rooney, Patrice, you know, I'd re-owned Vida behind me.

29:49Stephen Howson: Playing with Michael Katz. I had legs around, which I needed at that age. I needed legs around me, but I could still beat a man. but I still also had that experience so the first part and the last part were my favourite parts of my career I loved it Unbelievable

30:03Ryan Giggs: Cleanest right boot in the world Do you know what my favourite goal of yours is? It's not the one you think I don't think Spurs in first Premier League season What a goal that is If you're not seeing that that was Ryan Giggs Is it Gary Mabbit you nutmegged?

30:18Stephen Howson: I think it was Jason Cundey

30:19Ryan Giggs: Was it? Oh beautiful

30:21Stephen Howson: I think In off the post as well What a goal

30:24Ryan Giggs: you think you took it too wide yeah

30:26Stephen Howson: of course I did yeah but like I said I was quick then I could make up for it have you seen it no

30:32Ryan Giggs: I'll pull it over you in a bit it's unbelievable

30:34Joel Beya: this one's for you Anderson or Kobe Mainou's thing

30:38Ryan Giggs: there's no question Anderson was my first pick for us to sign all summer but he ain't Kobe Mainou Kobe looks ridiculous how good does he look this season

30:47Stephen Howson: I felt sorry for the last 10 minutes because he was still trying to do he got the ball taken off him because he was still trying to do the right thing and he just didn't have the energy to do it. But I talked about dribble to pass. You know, it's very hard in midfield to sort of like, when you're against someone who dribbles against you, to defend against it and he does it really well. He does it, if he's got to knock it off. He just does that. Yeah. Doesn't he say anything? He just goes that whole. It's not pace, it's acceleration. So he's not quick, quick, but he's got that acceleration and he's, you know, strong physically.

31:21Stephen Howson: He's a very, very good player.

31:23Ryan Giggs: He started adding that sort of range to his game as well, because I think he always had that short game and he always had nice feet to be able to get himself out of trouble. But now he started finding the touchline. I think that's where he's really going to... Do you think you could ever get to that Scholes level of vision? Because he's got that. It seems like he's got the vision, doesn't he? Which seems like that hardest thing to get.

31:45Stephen Howson: Yeah, I mean, that should be the first pass a midfielder looks at, really. That ball in behind that 30-yard switch, potentially. the ball forward should be the first pass that you think about so if he adds that to his game as well as the dribbling as well as the short passing then who knows he's still young he's a central midfielder for Man United he's still young he's still learning the game and he's having to learn on the job are you worried Steve about the haven't even been to me are you worried four games

32:15Ryan Giggs: four points yeah although I think we'd have gone four-footed with one yesterday right something like that I am yeah because obviously you don't need your chips pissing on 12 minutes into the game against Hull at the start of the season or whatever it was 17 minutes and then Everton feels like a loss because you put yourself ahead of the 88th minute you think you can hold on don't you and then yesterday I feel like we threw it that way yesterday I think it was so there for the taking that was a shite City team from what I've seen come to us in the last few years that was really ordinary gettable

32:50Stephen Howson: yeah I'm a positive person and there's going to be massive negativity around United because it's Man United but last two games two worldies and a goal that shouldn't have stand they don't go in I know it's football but it's fine margins so it's not all bad but the results why are you shaking your head?

33:11Joel Beya: Ryan, positive geeks I mean, do you know what? I'm kind of shaking my head because the positions have changed really I remember we had our shamrock days and I was looking at you guys and everybody was laughing at us and we were the butt of the jokes and just times change now really moving that on actually one title they'll change back what in 25 years it does but mate it's taken long isn't it it's taken a long time does that worry you

33:46Ryan Giggs: did you think we'd be this bad for this long No. I said about five years. We saw it out, you know. Yeah, yeah. It was like seven years ago.

33:56Stephen Howson: The one thing that encourages me over the last sort of year, I think we've had good transfer windows. I think that it's not been as bad as probably five, six years ago. So I think we're on the right track, but the world that we live in, just no one gets time. No one gets that patience.

34:10Joel Beya: Yeah. Speaking about a manager that has got time and he's done well with his time, Mr. Mikel Arteta.

34:16Ryan Giggs: Isn't his average position until about fifth though?

34:18Joel Beya: We obviously beat Sunderland 2-0 over the weekend. How many times did he go eighth? Doesn't matter, he's champion now. Ryan, when you saw that performance against Sunderland, what were your thoughts? Were you looking at Arsenal thinking, this is the best team in the league? Or were you looking at Sunderland thinking, oh, they got unlucky? What did you think?

34:35Stephen Howson: No, it's hard to defend the title. So that showed me that result and that performance that they look like they're ready to defend the title because Sunderland away after Europe is not an easy game. Sunderland are a good team. And they played well. And they played light as well. Yeah, and they played well. And the atmosphere was electric and it was a worldy goal, yeah. But they looked in control. They looked like they've got a good squad. They looked like they make four or five substitutions and not weaken, actually arguably get stronger. So, yeah, they look good.

35:14Ryan Giggs: I think your depth is class at the moment

35:17Joel Beya: yeah even though I argue about the up front position because if Havertz is gone then I'm a little bit worried that's another conversation but why is it harder to defend the title would you say

35:26Stephen Howson: just is everybody wants to beat the champions and then you've got to have that something within you that right okay because it's hard to win the league so you've got to climb that mountain again and some players are like do I have to do this again because it's so hard you know with a month to go Arsenal were last season it was like so you know how hard it is even though they were brilliant last season it's still hard and it might be the same this season but they just look like when you've got a squad like that you just keep it fresh you know United didn't look fresh they had a game on Thursday a lot of the players played on Thursday it takes a lot of getting used to that Champions League then getting up for a massive game at the weekend it's not easy it takes time to do that but Arsenal look like they've got the squad they've got the obviously manager with that confidence and trust in their players that he can chop and change a few positions.

36:20Stephen Howson: And, you know, we always say if you want to be a top team, you have two players in each position. And it looks like, I know you said about the centre forward, but it looks like in most positions, Arsenal have two players in each position.

36:32Joel Beya: Who's your favourite when you look at Arsenal at the moment? Odegaard at the moment.

36:36Stephen Howson: Looks like he's controlling games to me. And getting it off the back four, running him behind, he's everywhere. and he just looks like...

36:44Ryan Giggs: He wasn't flavouring him on flash, was he?

36:46Joel Beya: He wasn't. He looks like your type of player, to be fair. Technical, able to find a pass. Yeah. Wins the ball back.

36:54Stephen Howson: Defensively, very good. Yeah. He just looks the... There's so many. He looks strong. He looks strong in everything.

37:01Ryan Giggs: Favourites? Yeah. Right. It's Raya and it's not even close. Raya saves your bacon so much. Oh, man. So you mentioned talking about Patrice and Erwin, obviously, two unbelievable left-backs that he played with there. Gabby Hines came in, wins Player of the Year, decides he wants to go to Liverpool and really pisses everyone off by doing so, doesn't he? He's obviously part of Arsenal's backroom staff. What would you make of him and what impact do you think he's having over there? He seems like he's got a bit of mentality going on.

37:32Stephen Howson: Well, yeah, I mean, I talk about relationships. I didn't have a... I played with him a lot of times, but I didn't have that sort of amazing relationship that I had in the position because he was more of a sort of left centre-half, left-back. He was a defender. And that's what he was. He knew where to be. He would give stupid fouls away, clever fouls. He was just streetwise and he was just a brilliant defender. So he will be giving an insight to them, Arsenal defenders. This is, if it's not going for you, this is how the dark arts, if you might. he was a brilliant defender Gabby and could be nasty could be dirty at times but you wouldn't like to play against him

38:20Ryan Giggs: it all makes sense now

38:24Joel Beya: what was he like first day of training he comes in obviously he's playing against great players great strikers, what's he like? was it PSG we got him from?

38:33Stephen Howson: yeah I think it was he was tough, even in training the tackles would be flying in I mean, that was nothing rare when we trained. But yeah, he comes straight in and didn't tippy-toe. Just like, yeah, didn't matter who you were. He would smash anyone in training. So he was a top, top defender.

38:53Joel Beya: What about the mentality side? How much does Mikel Arteta, how much should he take credit for giving us that winning mentality? Because it's not easy. You know, we came third, sorry, second three times in a row. Forget the eight positions when we were actually challenging, you know, to come second three times. Some people can be broken from that, you know?

39:16Stephen Howson: Yeah, but first of all, he's been backed by the club and that gives you the confidence. He's got that stability. He's managed to mould his own team that how he wants the team to play. And he's got that strength and depth. so you're not looking around looking behind you on the bench and going I can't change this he can he hasn't always had the depth though no he hasn't but the last few years I mean seven years isn't it yeah that's a long time I think it's the longest in the football league it is he's the longest serving manager currently that's so like 30 years ago that's like 15 years

39:52Joel Beya: I know why'd you keep looking at me I thought it was longer than that maybe it is but we're not here to to count numbers thank you very much for coming in Ryan very good for you to stand in. I don't like the term substitution, but wow, what impact you've made today. Would you agree?

40:07Ryan Giggs: Yeah, I mean, and you know, fucking hell, these guys won 13 titles. Yeah, man. Your club doesn't know about that. No, no, no. It's different.

40:15Joel Beya: When you talk with someone like yourself, Ryan, like, I can't come with the jokes, man. It's all respect. You know what I mean? Oh, come with the jokes. No, it's, no, what I mean by that is...

40:25Ryan Giggs: Do you want to sit there and think, I wonder if anyone's ever going to come close to 13 titles? Or is it just not even under your head? Because even the Laksa's skulls with double figures and you should think I was saying that to my message yesterday.

40:37Joel Beya: I said, like, yeah, no, the day before on Saturday I said, no one's coming close to that. No one's coming. I don't care what anyone says. Like, we look at great players. You look at, even outside of United, you look at Lampard, you look at all these guys that have won, you know, loads, Kevin De Bruyne, even Phil Foden, you know, in terms of titles. It's just like,

40:54Ryan Giggs: it's nowhere near close. Joel, for 20 years we won 70 % of the titles.

41:00Joel Beya: I thought it was closer than that. You know, when you look back and you hear the Arsenal United and you throw that. You won three during that time. It's crazy. Four though now, five when we win at the end of the season. Okay, listen, keep on watching the debrief on Rio Presents. Incredible, incredible show. So glad that Ryan has agreed to join the team. But yeah, keep on watching. Make sure you like, share, comment and subscribe. We will be back soon. Myself, Joel Baer, Stephen Housen and the one and only Mr. Ryan Giggs. Thank you. Thank you very much. Peace.

41:58Joel Beya: Hi, I'm Max Rushton, the host of The Guardian Football Weekly, alongside me, Barry Glendening, my co-host. Hey, Barry. Hello. Now, although every American found us during the World Cup, for the two that didn't, what can they expect? Found us and fell in love with us, Max.

42:12Ryan Giggs: They can expect three episodes each week of occasionally insightful analysis covering the Premier League, Champions League and beyond. Football Weekly is back. Watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts.