Steven Gerrard: I Would Not Have Left Like Trent Did | Our England Squad Were ‘Egotistical losers"

0:0033 days, 33 episodes, no off switch. From the goals and the glory to the politics and the problems of the World Cup, if you want soccer analysis from a podcast that's been over-analyzing the game for more than 20 years, then this is it. Join me, Max Rushton, and our expert team of soccer journalists every day of the tournament. Can England end 60 years of hurt, or will this be another year of falling just short? Probably. World Cup Daily, listen wherever you get your podcasts, or watch full episodes on YouTube. I lost my job at Aston Villa which was really tough because I found the last six or seven games really tough because I felt like I couldn't pull it back and it's frustrating when you're in that position.

0:40You're working harder, you're doing more and you just can't pull it back because you know that the dressing room's maybe not going to help you pull it back. But I lost control of it quickly and it deteriorated quickly and I found it hard to get it back. That was tough and frustrating. Stephen Gerrard, one of the most incredible footballers of a generation. Probably like myself, Lampard and Scholes, we're all different. But now you brought us there, who's better? I've played with him for many years, but when he sits down for this episode of Rio Meats, I'm still learning new things. He was an animal.

1:15He was a nasty piece of work. He was a nasty, nasty piece of work. We were a pair of devils on the pitch, if you like. Little staffs. The Manchester United lads and Alex Ferguson now were rubbing their hands together. Oh, you fooled that at the time. Was that true? He's refreshingly honest about some big parts of his career and some others too. I think we were all egotistical losers. The Chelsea thing is exactly the same. It makes me feel shit. There's not many better than Roy Keane when I judge a midfielder. Do you agree with the stick he got there? I can understand it from being in Trent's shoes.

1:51and you know the sticky guy so what? I got it the next person that flates with Real Madrid or Barcelona they're going to get stick we play a game with millions and millions of people that are paying good money over all so you're going to get a bit of stick so enjoy witnessing a side of Steven Gerrard that you won't have ever seen before he would have everyone terrorised in the Premier League I'm telling you right now he'd be the best midfield in the Premier League hands down I probably wouldn't you helped me get sense after me. Did, didn't he? I said so a few things. You're like Clueso, weren't you, the ref?

2:30How are you, mate? How are you? Good, how are you? Good to see you. And you, you all right, yeah? Good to see you. It's a bit closer, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. It's nice. How are you doing? Great, all good. Family good? Excellent. Grandad now, isn't it? Yeah, grandad, yeah. A few more grey hairs. That's unbelievable. Youngest looking grandad I've seen, I think. You reckon? Yeah. yeah yeah if you have a shave maybe if you have a shave but um no brilliant mate a really good summer lily had the baby um both healthy both fine so really proud granddad oh good we were talking about you before with uh michael you've seen the stuff we've done with michael a while ago um explosive wasn't it yeah you came out you touched me didn't you message me yeah it was a great interview by the way no cheers thank you but what i wanted to ask you about him is like um Is that the Michael Owen you know though?

3:18Because a lot of people, sometimes he gets viewed in a different way to actually the way I see him because I'm always around him as an off-screen. Well, I come through the whole system with him from a football point of view. So I would have met Michael at eight years of age. I know the mentality of the player. I know the level that he got to. And I think the interview was really honest. But I think it was also Michael reminding people, you know, don't forget about me. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Because a lot of people get, in my opinion, too much credit for the careers they've had. And I think in Michael's case, he doesn't get enough credit.

3:57Especially in the period where he touches on a lot, from 17 to 23, before he got the big armstring injury. He was as good as anyone in terms of being a striker. And the thing that people maybe don't know about Michael is they see this little small centre forward who's this you know pretty boy family man blah blah he was an animal yeah he was a nasty piece of work he was a nasty nasty piece of work i remember managers even when he was young lish or et cetera having to take him off or tell him to calm down because he's one of smash people yeah well we were we were a double act you know i can't say that it was all it was all michael um you know i used to back him up a lot and he used to back me up a lot we were a pair of uh devils on pitch if you like little stuff yeah little yeah we were you know he was the first press and i was writing behind them but we were two tenacious competitive small footballers coming through because we were both small but we had this mentality where we didn't like to get beat that's the bit that got michael the bound or in my opinion not just the goals and the speed it was the the hunger and the um the devil in him there's a devil in michael owen from a football points of view and let's have it right there was a period that's three four years where he was he was up there the best it's weird because obviously you've you've played you would have seen on there one of the big talking points was the the michael owen versus wayne rooney and check that come out the back of it and um there's probably no one better place actually than yourself to be able to kind of dissect as teenagers where would you sit i don't think they're in the conversation to compare against directly each other that's not me sitting on the fence because Wayne Rooney is the best player I've played with in England hands down because he can do so many things and I don't see Wayne as a number 9 I don't see him as a number 10 I see him as an all round attacker because he can occupy a back 4 or a back 5 on his own and the only other striker I've seen do that is Luis Suarez so Wayne's in the Suarez conversation for me their direct thing that's more of a comparison Yeah, for me, because they're similar.

6:08And a Torres and an Ariel would probably be more. And I'd say Torres and Owen are more. Yeah, yeah. Probably like myself, Lampard and Scholes. We're all different. But because we're attacking eight, people debate it more than any other debate in the world, which I understand. But now you brought us there, who's better? That's all. You know, I always back myself. Yeah? I always back myself. Yeah, good. But I love Frank Lampard as a player because I love his hunger for goals. He was the best. at arriving in the box, his timing, his hunger for goals as an attacking midfielder. Numbers. I think he probably outshines myself and Scolzi in terms of that hunger for goals and being obsessed on the thing.

6:46If you're talking about somebody who can run a game who you can't get near when he's at his best, control a game, looks silky, great on the eye, probably looks better on the eye, Scolzi. But me, as a young boy and coming up as a young kid, the midfielder I didn't start out to be an attacker or a defensive midfielder I just wanted to be a midfielder and a midfielder for me is you can do everything and that's how I tried to grow and evolve and become and I personally don't I'll back myself against anyone in the world if you're looking at every component of a midfielder defensively attacking transition for and against if you're marking and judging a score on every component of being a midfielder I'll go against anyone I love that I love that you know what it's mad because like Americans do this and it's normalized in America you're champion for backing yourself and going actually no no I am the best it's weird because in our country it's a little bit like oh well he's a big guy that's what Michael Owen was getting because he's backing himself you're not going to get that because you don't divide opinion as much as someone like Michael but it's refreshing to see someone actually go no listen I do actually there's types of midfielders there's types of defenders like I get asked the question a lot with you and John Terry for example and I think you're different both play center half which is weird you all play in the same position blah blah I thought you were great together but I you're very different the most more frustrating thing for me about the debates when I hear it a lot is why why hasn't there been someone over a 15 year period that's made us work together yeah well I was going to come to that but you took us there again it's true you know how and that's all you know that's on me as well because at times underperformed and blah blah and I'm sure Frank Lola's hand up schools they're all honest lads but do you not think the system sometimes facilitates players well a two doesn't work with them three a two doesn't work so um or does one of you have to sit out one of us yeah if you're playing the system that a lot of the coaches played I think someone had to have the courage to say well Stephen it's not you today or Frank or Scalzi putting Scalzi on the left or me on the right or me on the left or asking one of us to be just a sitter takes a lot away from any of us but I think I think we could have played I think we could have played together I think we could have tactically being coached over a period of time for it to work because I believe we had the football IQ and intelligence to adapt and make it work together and but there's bigger problem in england in my opinion i think we were all egotistical losers yeah because i i watch the telly now and i see carriga sitting next to paul skulls on this fan debate and he looked like they're being best mates for 20 years and i see carrie's relationship with carrie never only look like they're being mates for 20 years i'm probably more close and friendly with you now than i ever was when i played with you for 15 years so why didn't we connect when we were 20 21 22 23 was it ego was it rivalry was it why why are we all mature enough now and at stages in our life where we're closer and more connected now why couldn't we connect as england teammates back then and i think it was down to the culture within england that we were all never connected all in our rooms too much we never we wasn't friendly or connect we wasn't a team we never at any stage become a real good strong team did you enjoy it hated the rooms in the early days I'd have days where I was down like low down like I'm in this room for seven hours what am I gonna do it was no social media no like didn't have a DVD player any channel one to five or whatever it was I I used to get low and down I used to love the games I used to love playing for England really proud I I used to enjoy the training sessions, but it was 90 minutes a day.

10:45And then I was just on my own in London or in... The middle of nowhere. Romania or wherever, and I was just thinking, I'm in this room from now, till I have half an hour dinner till the next day. It was like, I didn't feel part of a team. I didn't feel connected with my teammates with England. I didn't feel that. Liverpool, they were the best days of my life. When I used to go abroad at Liverpool or I used to go to an away game at Liverpool, I felt part of a team. I felt like the staff looked over me. I felt special. I felt like I couldn't wait to get there with England. I just wanted the games and the training sessions and then to be away.

11:24I think our problems was, a number of problems, the main ones was Liverpool, Man United and Chelsea. Yeah, I'd agree with that. I felt like the last one or two days of the 10 days, you could feel a connection coming, but then the games would be done. The games would be done. There was a little bit more of a connection during the tournament because you'd be living together a little bit more. But I think Gareth Southgate is underrated for how he connected the England team because for me, the talent was there. The talent was there, the players were there. The level of games we were all playing at was there to go and do better than what we did.

12:06I think we had a little bit of bad luck with the penalties or whatever. we have to take responsibility but I've got a big frustration when I look back at England that we never done better and I think it's a combination of different things but one of the big things for me was we wasn't a team no we were we were a group of individuals with talent and it never works like that I felt there was an underlying like bitterness between us yeah bitterness a little bit of hate a little bit of hatred a little bit of like you know we want to do use yeah but when you think about it now looking back at the age I'm at and I haven't gone through a bit of coaching it's quite immature it's a bit it's a bit immature but also should should it should there have been more emphasis on the staff to go to us listen you need to forget that now we need to connect from day one more activities more out of your rooms more time together because I think if we'd have been more of a team more together and liked each other more I think it would have come out in the performances more yeah I agree just to take you back like talking about what everyone talks about you in such glowing terms and I started I was thinking before I was sitting with you it's like well when did you actually feel that you were going to be a player I think in terms of playing for Liverpool's first team it I first realized I had a really good chance of 13 because I was offered a really long contract i was offered the contract at 13 two-year school boys two-year apprentice and a three-year professional so i knew i knew at 13 i was going to get close all around the first team squad but from a young age i knew i was good enough to be in any game of football that i was put in i've got an older brother who's two years older so i was always around all the kids getting knocked about getting toughed up getting beat a lot at different sports table tennis pool snooker in the street whatever game you could play um and i got i suffered that took or tortured by all all the kids and me brother and um that made me more determined more resilient more stronger mentality hated losing yeah hated losing at any anything and i think having the talent around that competitor gave me a good chance to go on the journey.

14:27Talking about losing and not winning and not being able to win when you're a kid and your brother's really like putting the foot on your neck a little bit as a kid. How did you manage your... was you always good at managing your anger because you've... No, no and I think even during my career I look back now and there's moments where I wish I managed it better, where it got the better of me frustration and... You weren't a shouter though, was you? You'd do something. yeah no it'd be an action yeah it'd be an action i've never been i've never been a shouter and i'm not now um it'll be it'd be an action or in football terms so i it'd get the better than me i'd go kick someone or i'd you know get it'd be on the wrong side of um where you need to be and i look back and regret some of the things i've done i came on against manchester united once for 30 seconds got sense off.

15:17You helped me get sense off didn't you? I said so a few things. You were like Clueso weren't you the ref? You were good at that. Green card, red card, red card. So yeah I regret some of them moments and red cards and stuff but I also think that it was that inner drive and resilience and competitive spirit that also helped me to be the player I was. When you walk into that dressing room with first team players and there's big players there like robbie farler jamie redknapp at the time and others jamie's actually the first one who told me about you in england he said we've got a kid coming for years you never believe what he's like but what's your mindset going in there to try and put your your imprint in in in their minds i can play here so i went into the first team dressing room um obviously carrot carrot and michael helped me a lot because i was around their younger dressing room a little bit so they knew me david tomo danny murphy they helped me a lot but the likes of file mcmahon and rednap they were my heroes i had their names on me shirts i'd done their boots as an apprentice i i couldn't have had any more respect going into the liverpools dressing room in terms of them as people and players but i i had somewhere i in my own mind and in my quieter times where i used to look at them and think I'm coming for all of you.

16:36I had this thing where I'd be very polite and got nothing but respect for all them as people and guys, but I used to think I'm at this moment now where it's now or never for me. If I want to play for Liverpool for a long period of time and I want the career that I want to have, whoever's there in my own every single day training, I'm thinking no one's getting in the way of me. I have to prove I'm better than Paul Lince, Jamie Redknapp Danny Murphy and Davey Thompson they were the four that I used to get in my car every morning I think I've got to be better than them today would they have known that?

17:11I think that they felt it in training in terms of me competing against them they felt it but I've never said it to them I don't think you'd have to do that I think you'd have to prove it what about becoming a leader in the change room as well because obviously you've become the captain of Liverpool you're a Liverpool lad you're a local kid what When you're given the armband like that, what's that feeling as a local kid? You've been on the terraces there watching your team. There's probably three numerous occasions where I've had a feeling which has been indescribable. Lifting trophies is one of them.

17:47When I got called into the office and Phil Thompson, who later did, they said to me, you're going to be the full-time captain of Liverpool. It's one of the most special and best feelings I've ever had in my life. Where your body, your outer body experience, the hairs on your neck you have this flush and incredible feeling probably came a little bit young i still had loads to learn i didn't feel like i was that vocal leader that you probably needed to be to to captain a liverpool dressing room but all the way through my younger amateur teams and through the system at liverpool i think i tried to play in a certain way in a certain style that led that led that's the way i try and play and i think that's what got me the armband rather than um looking at me and going oh he's vocally ready or he's mature enough or experienced enough to be the captain of the pool i think the way i played and my style gave me the opportunity then i had to grow learn on the job evolve and um having the likes of rednap uh sammy up here Jamie Carragher, them players.

18:52And they helped me a lot in the initial period. I've heard loads of players talk about being at Liverpool and under your kind of captaincy, talking about they were actually in there trying to impress you more than the manager at some times. I'm not sure. I'm not sure that's there. But did you ever feel that? Because I always say to my mates, I've got loads of Liverpool supporters who are mates, and they always ask me about it, Steve. I say, you know what? Forget being a footballer. He actually has got quite an aura at some times. Yeah, but I think, you know, looking into the Manchester United dressing room from afar, I would probably say the likes of yourself, Roy Keane, definitely.

19:30I'd say Giggs, looking at Giggs from afar, I would say. And even your Scholes, I'd say there's a core of players in every dressing room where a new sign has to impress and start well. Because you know, as well as I do, we talk, the first thing me and you say if we're in the same dressing room say Liverpool for example the player comes in he has a nightmare in his first session where you're going you didn't start well like Alonso came in for example and just went bang first thing kind of comes in and goes we've got a player here so you have them conversations you make quick judgements as well don't you and I think the core of any dressing room they have the respect and you know the feeling in the dressing room where I think new players and new signings or players coming through the youth system they should have to impress that core of players they should have to prove that they're good enough and that they're going to help the team and seeing the way that you take over games at times and dominate games I look at my career and think it's probably like when I was 20 22 where I felt I could dominate an opponent quite consistently or get into a game where I don't feel like I'm going to be challenged because I'm really on it when did you start feeling that not invincible but that real confidence in your performance Well, in my early years, I was always compared to Roy Keane, your Patrick Vieiras.

20:55And I was 19, 20, 21 probably when they were in their peak, I would say. And I didn't really feel like a proper man at the time. I didn't feel like I was finished in terms of body development, in terms of the level I could get to or, you know, my full potential. At times, I found it hard against them. at my age and where I was at in my career because they were machines. They were... I'm not sure the exact ages of what they are, but you knew if you played against Rui Keane or Patrick Vieira that I had to, at that age, I had to go above and beyond to live with them or to try on the day, try and get the better of them.

21:38I had to go above and beyond where I was at in my career to live with that level of player. Just quickly on them, because I think it's important because we see, especially working on TV now, and the younger generation probably wouldn't know. And actually, there's probably a narrative that goes around the way, just a kicker, just a tackler. No, no. How would you describe something like that? I think football's in a place where you get more praise and respect now if you're a moments player. So, for example, you score a good goal or you get an assist and it's stats and it's, you know, oh, he's got 10 assists and 10 goals and blah, blah, blah.

22:13but if you look at the detail of a performance in and out of possession leadership all the components blah blah blah there's not many better than Roy Keane when I judge a midfielder he was always in the right position he was tough he was physically top in terms of being able to get about, recovery runs. He was tough in terms of physicality. He could run pasture. He could recover and get back. His short game was underrated, in my opinion, because he could break lines with his passing. He could change the play. He could run off. I think he had all the components. I think, obviously, he scored a lot of important goals at key times that's how I judge a midfielder I judge a midfielder on everything a 19 minute performance over a season over a period of time there's not many better than we can it's mad because we obviously chat on text every now and again and I remember you talking about Yaya Toure another midfielder he sometimes goes out of the conversation of the top midfielders in the in the Premier League someone like him like what did you find him hard to play against did you find him I think he'd have moments in the game that I'd find hard to contain because if he went to gear five if you like and decided he was going to go and burst past you or try and drive past you or pass and run past you, I think Jai Jartori was one of the most toughest opponents to stop.

23:45He would have two or three moments in the game that could be unstoppable if you like. But over 90 minutes, if you stop them two or three moments or stick with them two three moments i'm comfortable with that a roy keen or a patrick fiera over 90 minutes is different than that it's different than that that's a lot so what about in today's generation i just i'm on this topic of great midfielders who are you looking at now in today's game and going that's the level that i'm used to playing against and that i i respect yeah in the premier league yeah i think Declan Rice is a really, really good midfielder.

24:27I like an awful lot about him. I like the kid. I like his mentality. I like the way he's gone to the next level at Arsenal. He's adding different things to his game. I think he'd be a really tough, strong opponent, good challenge. Jude Bellingham, if he was in the Premier League, I'd love to go toe-to-toe with him. I really think that would be interesting and good. They're the two best at the moment, I'd say from an English point of view. There's certain midfielders that I didn't really enjoy playing against. Like the Barcelona type midfielder. I've been there as well. When they're collectively together, when it's my style and you want to really go and leave a stamp on someone and get close to someone and blah, blah, blah, them together, they were really difficult to play against.

25:20Busquets, Xavi and Yester. I mean, what a blend of a midfielder. I look at the likes of Pedri now and these type of players, they were the most difficult challenge for me but the ones like your Keane's, Vieira's, people who you can go toe to toe and get close to and have a tear up with. You don't really see that much now do you? It's me against you. I'm not sure I could be respected as well as I got respected during my career now in today's game. I think it's changed, it's a more technical game, it's a more academy-based game, tactical. What do you mean academy? What's that mean like? Technical, I think academies are more technical now.

25:57The rules of the game have moved, have evolved where, you know, I look at my battles against some of the players, lamps in Champions League battles, Scolesy, where you could try and leave a stamp on them, they'd try and leave a stamp on me, Vieira's skulls, where it would be, as we were talking about here, leave the box, and a toe-to-toe, like, 90-minute battle over the course of the game. That duel might actually determine the game. It doesn't really happen like that now, isn't it? It could set a tone or blah, blah, blah. Now, for me, the rules, tackling's not as a thing or leaving a stamp or physicality.

26:37It's a more friendlier atmosphere. It's a more safer game. I like football the generation before. So for me, that's the generation I played in. For me now, it's a little bit more technical. You get booked for nothing now. You can go off a football pitch for nothing. You could get a few more red cards. Oh, yeah. And that's what would concern me now. Could I be the Steven Gerrard that played in our generation? Could that be now? I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'd have to adapt. I'd have to adapt. And I think it'd take a lot away from my style. Talking about your style. I think Scolese now. Would be a joke.

27:16hands down would be the best midfielder in the Premier League. Fact. Do you think that, yeah? I do, yeah, because Scolese, for me, was very much an in-possession controller of a midfield, controller of a game. Yeah. Can switch the play. You get close and he could pop it round you, he can play with the outside of his foot, he can switch the play, score important goals, make the last pass. Scolese's thing for me was, can you get him doing the other side of the game? Can you take him the other way? Can you be physical with him? He'll get booked against you. that these type of things you could you could maybe try and get the better room the other way but i'm not sure in the stage game you could leave one on scolsey for example so he would have he would have everyone's head at eyes i'm telling you right now he would have everyone said it right in the premier league now he'd be the best midfield in the premier league now hands down i probably wouldn't i think you do yourself a disservice i've got to be honest i probably wouldn't because i think you could be on the pitch yeah that might be a big issue for long enough just talking about what I mean don't get his style yeah Skolls is a type if you can't get near him and affect him like you're saying and get your hands on him or make him do other parts of the game he'd have a huge influence on the game yeah exactly um just talking about styles and and bits and bobs about people's identity as a player what what is it in your game do you think there's probably an undervalued element of your game that people don't really talk about as much yeah I think I was quicker than what people think in terms of covering ground like recovery runs or best and past people were running without the ball I was probably slightly quicker than what people give me credit for and that went towards the back end of me career and I think that's what the reason why maybe Brendan tried to shape me more into a deeper Scholesy type midfielder come more of a controller playing from a bit deeper but when I was in my prime years and I felt really good and physically good I had like a rangy stride that could cover the ground going both ways Right man, we've got loads still to come on this pod but we'll be back shortly after this

29:37been overanalyzing the game for more than 20 years, then this is it. Join me, Max Rushton, and our expert team of soccer journalists every day of the tournament. Can England end 60 years of hurt, or will this be another year of falling just short? Probably. World Cup Daily, listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch full episodes on YouTube. While every other channel is fighting for your customers' attention, podcasts are where they've already given it. No one accidentally listens to a podcast for 45 minutes. They choose to be here. They trust the voice in their ears. And when that voice talks about your brand, it doesn't sound like advertising.

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30:33Where was the best Steven Gerrard? I would say 2005 to 2007 was really good. I was injury free for quite a bit of it. And what position was your plan then? Rafa had tactically got me in a really good place as well. I think in my early years I was a bit of a free spirit. Maybe lost my position a little bit too much, but got a lot of rewards from doing that by taking a lot of risk and gambling a lot but rafa really got me to understand the tactical side of the game more game intelligence different iq so from four four to seven i felt really strong um can't really remember the period after seven um but then i had a period around nine ten and eleven where i felt really good as well I think I won't play it here.

31:22Yeah, I'd become a little bit more behind Torres. I had Alonso Mascherano behind me. And that spine of that team was really good. How did that team not win? Because of Hughes. Yeah, but if you just stayed together. We should have won a league. So there's an element of us not... When you named them players like that. That spine was just good enough. Good enough. obviously 2014 again that one still haunts me of course I say it a lot but even before that I think we should have we should have just we should have pipped one we should have got one but for us we had Fergie and the United team the class of 92 that were all top Premier League players it's not luck but we never had that at Liverpool where 7 or 8 were that level and then United were spending on like yourself and Van Nistelrooyd they obviously had a natural leader in Keane they had a freaking gigs we only really had one£30 million player that was the superstar at Liverpool your Torres then it became Suarez but we only really had one superstar it was Michael Owen Fowler in my time Fowler was the superstar when I came in then we had Michael Owen was the superstar Torres came in after a bit of a lull where we didn't have a superstar Torres then it became Suarez I always felt Manchester United always had three or four superstars and then the class of yeah solid ones around it solid ones around it was you ever like when you look back I never ever felt our Liverpool team was as strong as you I always felt like we had to go above and beyond to get a result against you that's how it used to feel you talked about the spine though that team and you named them players there Alonso Mascherano yourself Torres that was the closest we'd come I'm just going on was you frustrated maybe at times about elements of the recruitment I'm not asking to name names but elements of the recruitment to actually enhance that spine that you had in the club oh yeah we got recruitment badly wrong at times badly wrong at times I'll give you one example we had the chance to sign Nicholas and Elke or Eladjouf and we bought Eladjouf on the back of a four or five game period in a World Cup when we could have bought someone on the back of five or six years.

34:00That was a decision, I don't know we made the final decision. That one example of us as a club getting it wrong because that is one of the biggest mismatches you could debate. that's you for Nicholas Anelka that is Anelka's one of the hardest players I've played against one of the top three hardest I've played against yeah and he came into our sessions Anelka coolest man ever calm relaxed you just knew he had that aura and that confidence in himself but he was ready to win he was ready to help Liverpool win more or get closer to you guys or wherever it was and Anelka was coming in and he was a level above he was a level above and then a decision was made and honestly it was a complete mismatch.

34:55That was one example I'll give you where I couldn't believe what was happening. Just to take you back, we spoke about Manchester United and Liverpool, that rivalry and I was a Londoner coming up to Manchester. I didn't realise what that, the fire between the two clubs. What did it mean to you, that rivalry? I don't want to play it up too much. I've never, ever played it down. I think it is what it is. It was there well before me and you. It'll be here forever. You've got two huge institutions that are built on success.

35:34Two ginormous fan bases. Proud fan bases as well. Yeah, unbelievable. And obviously there's this rivalry and blah, blah, blah. but similar in terms of where the stadiums are, the surrounding areas, blah, blah, blah, what it means to your person that saves up and buys a ticket and goes and supports the team. There's a lot of similarities in both clubs. So you can't play it down, but at the same time, I don't want to sit here like this big hero who tries to make out that it's bigger than it is. it was a huge very important game of football that meant the world and everything to me in that moment Is there a moment you remember that stands out for you in them games?

36:22Well listen in my first early Manchester United games we were tortured playing against Andy Cole York Beckham Giggs Scholes Keane that team would come to even Anfield and would be a level above the team that I first broke into so So a lot of hurt and a lot of pain in the early things. And then there was a game where we came to Old Trafford and I think Danny Murphy scored the winning goal. And we hadn't, the free kick, yeah. But we also, I think we got a result as well. I played a pass to Danny Murphy and he lobbed the keeper. I think Barthes was in goal at the time. So we were starting to get a bit of confidence and belief and we were growing and building into a better team.

37:06but it's sort of brought into you from being a local a lot earlier than when you play at first team level so I'd have played against Richie Wellens Wes Brown who you played with earlier on 13, 14, 15 John Curtis we'd have played against all them in the youth team so we'd have been well primed more than you coming in as a signing for United so it was always fixture lists whatever age group when are we playing Manchester United just on that rivalry I remember Rafa Benitez the rant he had that time in a press conference what was the impact on you because the impact on us was like we were on bikes in the gym and we see it come up and it's interesting when you see almost like soap opera things start happening on the news and the impact it can have on the change room we were kind of like lifted by that I'd like to see what was that I got an SMS I think it was an SMS at the time on the Blackberry James Carragher, before the interview had finished.

38:07Who's that? And I think I was actually typing one out to him at the same time. Rafa's world class and he's brilliant. He's brilliant for me in terms of development, personal one-to-one stuff. Quite a cold manager at times. But in terms of tactical and the best I work with, but I think that was a mistake. i understood why he was what he was trying to do and what you know these mind games at that level when you're in the managing seat it's different it's different you know you're trying to manage the press in a different way but being in the players shoes at that time i don't think it was necessary because i was thinking the manchester united lads and alex ferguson now rubbing their hands together oh you thought that at the time was that true yeah there you go we were like punching yeah if i'm honest on the bikes going like he's gone he's gone and fergie was the master at that um but i i i think we were in a good place at that time yeah we were in a good place and i think it was probably the most nervous usual there being you was a hundred percent concerned and that spine was coming that you spoke about we were growing we were building we were getting closer um i just don't think it was necessary that was my own personal opinion was that would that be something you'd have mentioned to him at the time.

39:30No, I wouldn't. I'd always have the respect of a manager and a coach to let him do it his way and blah, blah, blah. But if he'd have said to me, what do you think it means to you? I'd have just said, I don't think there's anything for it. Some players go through a career and finish a career and they've had a very good career, sometimes top level career, but there's never a moment where people go, that was the moment. You've had countless moments from Champions League winners, FA Cup winners. the lot what is your most memorable moment or one or two moments so you look back on and go that was the I always I always felt my my good moments came off the back of a setback or a moment where that wasn't so good maybe an injury or maybe a bad game or bad moments I used to always reset myself I was always really good at resetting and then just people listening to this sometimes when you get a bit of pain in your career or a setback I was really good at using it as motivation to go and achieve something good and big.

40:30Istanbul will always be the night and the moment. Did you just, was there something in you that made you feel like you kind of, was there something in the game, a trigger, a moment where it was like, switched on, I'm going to take over the game? A bit of fear of losing would always come in. I used to always, before games or preparing for games, I used to always get like this, imagine if we lose what's it going to feel like to lose um i used to always have to control and fight that in terms of like no point worrying about it now let's let's get the show on the road and let's get the battle going but with within game it was always imagine what it'd feel like to go out of this competition imagine what it'd feel like to lose these three points and it was that that used to drive me on so i'm going to do this even more than the imagine what it'd be like to win this or you know it'd be more like oh i'd always have that fear and that um i'm not sure fear is the right word but i'd always want to push to to not yeah yeah not experience that in football it's the worst feeling to being injured and losing is the worst part of your career the worst part i totally get what you're saying i never the moment i started thinking about what the feeling is going to be like when i win it never happened it was more like the the i can't lose this we can't imagine like you say imagine if we do lose this walking down the street i think that's the the part that people from the outside don't really get is like that pressure that responsibility especially when you're playing for the big clubs because there's no rest from it you spoke about when you've you've had setbacks or negative things pep guardiola said the best players in game are able to delete setbacks or a bad moment in a game and move on is that one of the things you're alluding to as well there not all the time not all the time because i had some bad moments and found it really hard to recover from them mentally and and within the game i suppose i used to work a lot on volume in terms of my moments like just keep going and go and go and go and just keep going.

42:48But yeah, I suppose when I did become the captain of Liverpool, I went to the next level in terms of that. Wanting it more, pushing more, fighting more, not giving up more. I suppose with age and with the responsibility of that, I think I went to the next level with that. But I couldn't always do it. made some really high profile mistakes that I couldn't recover from not through not wanting to or trying it just wasn't to be but there was a lot of times where I could and thankfully I had that talent or that drive or that force if you like to just keep going and going and going and going I was just sitting here listening to you I knew anyway but then sitting here it just comes even more apparent that feeling of losing is terrible you can't almost put it into words how much it means to you as an individual.

43:45Just to go back to the point when the moment when you did slip in that game, is that something that comes up in your mind? Because bad things that happened to me in my career, they come in my mind more than any good thing. I'm not sure what comes up the most. I feel good speaking about the good stuff. Istanbul, Olympiacos, the FA Cup. What's going on? or England got a block. Anyway, anyway, it feels great. And when I do interviews or I see a clip on the telly or blah, blah, blah, and I see a shit back pass I gave away for England or I underperformed for England, missed a penalty for England, I feel shit.

44:24The Chelsea thing is exactly the same. It makes me feel shit. It is what it is. I've got to live with it. I've managed it. I control it. Does it pop up every day in my life? No, it doesn't. Do I have to accept it and be man enough? Yeah, I can't change it. but all the shit moments they have in my career they rear themselves every now and again but so does the good stuff so I have to take the rough with this mood but I hate losing football matches I hate underachieving and I sit here now still here by not winning the Premier League not that not just that year every single year I competed in it because I felt at Liverpool Football Club being the captain I should have delivered that so I have to take the responsibility and own that but I don't overthink about individual moments good or bad I just deal with them as well when they come up but they do come in and out of me thoughts because I suppose because I'm human because I'm human talking on fast forward onto coaching what have you enjoyed most about coaching because when I've spoken to you I've seen you and people have asked me oh Stevie as a car i swear to you you were one of the players frank's the same wayne's the same you wouldn't have been the top five picks in in the dressing rooms i had top 10 picks yeah i think i think when i played with you if you'd have said to me jack need to do a bit of coaching or management i'd probably say i doubt it yeah i doubt it i said carl would yeah um i'd also say maybe frank would very intelligent so you get the impression he's very intelligent in terms of like you know studying the game or whatever danny murphy would have been another one you know always interested in that side of the game.

46:08So as a player, I'd have probably said no, but see, when I stopped playing football, it was a big void for me. And even though I knew my body was ready to pack in, feelings and blah, blah, blah, and I couldn't really be the player I wanted to be. So I was probably ready at the time. Missed it every single day, and I still miss it now as a player. And I qualified to do my badges when I went into my 30s and ended up getting my pro licence. went into Liverpool's academy, enjoyed a lot of that. But it was the managing side of it that I enjoyed, the one-to-one motivating players, seeing that I could make a difference with a player to get more out of that individual player.

46:49Then I got the opportunity to go to Rangers and I loved it. Rangers, I felt like it was the perfect match. And it went on from there, but it was the competing and the missing being a footballer daily, the routine, the being in the dressing room and the day-to-day routine, that was the void that what I still live with today is I miss that when I'm not in full-time football. I miss that void. Well, when you were in full-time football and you were in the midst of it, what was you seeing in terms of players and the desires, the habits, etc.? What was you seeing as a player? It's really changed. The fascinating thing for me was, I think the generation that I've been coaching in recently, what, seven or eight years, is very different to the generation of us and the generation before, I would say.

47:52So it's been fascinating for me to try and adapt a little bit and try and be in the now, in terms of managing the individual and trying to get the best out of the individual. It's slightly different than how I used to manage players as a captain, if you like, because you could be a bit more honest, a bit more forceful, if you like.

48:18And I've really enjoyed the journey so far, of course. I've had a couple of tough moments and lost my job at Aston Villa, which was really tough because I found the last six or seven games really tough because I felt like I couldn't pull it back. and it's frustration frustrating when you're in that position because when you're doing your best you're even doing more you're you're working harder you're doing more and you just can't pull it back because you know that the dressing room's maybe not going to help you pull it back that was tough um Saudi experience I've loved it I've loved it because I got the opportunity to really coach and learn and um away from the spotlight almost as well yeah different type of pressure different type of pressure still had a club that wanted to win and still demand but a different type of demand more of a supportive type of demand where you can evolve and grow as a coach and living away um because i was in liverpool for such a long time and really enjoying that different different cultures and taking myself and my family out of the comfort zone the villa thing was really tough at the end because the first six months of villa i felt like we had control of it and we were we had Villa where maybe we should have had them.

49:33I think the stats, if you like, were saying that we had them in the top eight, nine teams in the league from taking them at seven teams. So we were really in a good place. But I lost control of it quickly and it deteriorated quickly and I found it hard to get it back. That was tough and frustrating. But look, this is the difference from being a player to a manager. It's a completely different role. You can impact the game, can't you, as well? It's a completely different role. You're managing a dressing room, you're managing characters and personalities. The three different groups that I've had have all been different.

50:11Different characteristics, different groups, very different. So it's been fascinating to manage and coach them three different groups. But I've loved it so far. I'd love another goal at some point. I want to change a few things and improve a few things and come back fresh. with a few different people around myself. I'd love another couple of challenges doing this. And that's what I'm working on in the background at the moment. A few different ideas, a few different people around me. How do you do that? Do you interview a few people or have coffees with a few people? I'll speak to people off the record in private, get a feel for where that I'll...

50:49The first thing I try and do is I know where I'm strong and I know there's areas where I need good support and I need special skill sets to make me better and stronger in terms of my staff and my group. I felt like I had that to a T at Rangers. I had it to a T. A lot of coach changes at Aston Villa and over in Saudi that I don't think helped me from a personal point of view. So, yeah, now enjoying family time and doing a lot of things that I haven't been able to do, like going to Grand Prix, doing exhibition games with ex-teammates and superstars. That type of stuff's been great. But there's a part of me that still feels that there's a bit of unfinished business in terms of wanting to go in and face another couple of exciting challenges.

51:36But I want a certain type of challenge. If, in an ideal world, they come available, I'll jump at them. If they don't, I won't go back in. I want to be at a team that's going to compete to win because I think that suits me better. It's funny because Michael Owen spoke about that on the interviews, Rodney. You spoke about players going in at levels where they're not accustomed to being. If you're going in a championship or you're going in... It's tough. It's a tough gig. Every job's challenging and tough. I'm sure it is. Every manager will probably tell you the same thing. Do you think you'll be better at a team like that?

52:09I think certain jobs and certain clubs would suit my style and the way I like to go about it. but I've also got time now where I'm not in a rush where I know the right people that are out there to make me a stronger and a better coach they're the people I need to find because if I get the right match with them people around me I know and I've proved I can be successful as a manager and that's what I'm working on in the background now but I've had five or six really interesting phone calls since I stopped in Saudi and I haven't been ready because I haven't got that team set around me and the timing hasn't been right.

52:52My daughter's just had a baby. I've just become my granddad. I wasn't ready. I haven't got my staff ready. So unfortunately, them opportunities or them phone calls have come at the wrong time, if you like. But if the right call comes my way, the right club, the right challenge, and I've got my people set, which I will have at some point, I'll take that challenge on because it's in me. It's in me. Good luck. I can't wait for that to happen. Talking of managers. If it doesn't, you're going to have to put up me for a bit longer. Don't get away from it. Look at me that feeling every week. Don't worry about that.

53:20Xabi Alonso. Player or coach. Or human. As a manager, what are you, did you expect that? I'm not surprised by his rise and where he's at because as a player, student of the game, very clever, spoke sense, understood the game, all facets of the game in and out of possession. It was like you're playing with a coach when you played with him, but not in, not in a busy way we've played with players or you think you can talk a good game and they don't shut up in dressing rooms and you're looking at each other going this fella you can listen to jarry all day long he was a coach in a player's body if you like and rafa i'll tell you that the reason he brought jarry to liverpool was he was raffering because he knew it all his dad was an ex-player coach all this stuff so no surprise delighted for him as a human being top as a player a top and I'm sure if he continues the way he's going he's going to be a top manager as well he's already proved in a short space of time he's been extremely good just where now he's obviously at Real Madrid just want to get your thoughts before we go on Trent he's a local lad a bit of a mirrored career in terms of coming through the system boyhood club becoming successful there and then he's the decision obviously to go to Real Madrid what was your what side of the fence were you sat on?

54:41well if I take me Liverpool hat on I think any player in the game when Barcelona and Real Madrid come it's gonna turn your head this is me speaking about me Liverpool hat on at the moment Real Madrid came for me with Mourinho serious and it's hit me head it didn't get as much traction and noise as Chelsea because it was shut down pretty quick because of the timing of it and what Real Madrid wanted me to do to manage that you that so it never got the traction or the noise but it took me out it turned me out for sure it's real madrid so without me lipool hat on real madrid and and barcelona whether you like it or not it'd be a night to find a profound by day two humongous clubs and when they come it's going to turn your head no matter who you are it's going to turn your head or you're not you're not human they're going to turn your head so I can understand it from being in Trent's shoes I can understand it I get it his best mate plays there maybe he wants to challenge himself he's worn everything at Liverpool so there's a part of me that really understands it but as soon as I put my Liverpool hat back on I think what are you doing?

55:57what are you doing? you're arguably one of the best teams in Europe you're winning you're winning things that I sit here now and still dream of winning you're winning European Cups you're one of the main man the fans adore you what are you doing? but this with me Liverpool hat on because I love Liverpool Football Club so do you agree with the stick you got there? I understand it I understand it and you know the stick you got so what? I got it the next person that flirts with Real Madrid or Barcelona they're going to get stick we play a game with millions and millions of people that are paying good money over the whole, you're going to get a bit of stick.

56:40You're going to get a bit of stick. It is what it is. The stick that goes above the line, I don't agree with. The abuse. I don't agree with that with any player. That's not for me. That's just a load of bollocks. That's got to stop. But constructive criticism from a fan who's paying money and buying your shirt and blah, blah, blah. They deserve to have an opinion. They're the same people that were like watching Trent's goals on the phone and blah blah blah or you know spending three grand to go to Dortmund to see Trent score a free kick they're the same people that adore them that are spending 90 quid on a shit you've got to accept it get on with it it is what it is that is constructive opinions in football you have to get on with it you have to accept just get on with it and he has he has you know I just think he took a big risk on he's an extremely good footballer very talented footballer one of the best passes i've ever seen and i've played with some good passes he's up there with them he's in the conversation with beckham and skulls no problem um but to leave liverpool football club where he was at in the prime years getting off of the new contract he took a risk on in my opinion and i I think he's living that risk now.

58:00I hope it works for him because I love the kid. Love the kid to bits. I wouldn't have done it. You didn't do it. But he's good enough to make it work. He's good enough to make it work. I wouldn't have done it. Before we go, I've got to ask you, it's probably the biggest question, and if you want me to start a petition, I will. When's the Steven Gerrard statue going up at Antelope? I've seen loads of statues around. Where's yours? There's enough respect, and I think the club have gone above and beyond for me. If you knew what that club had done for me, not through my career, from the moment I stopped being a pool player, if you knew the respect that that club had given me, it'd blow your mind.

58:42It'd blow your mind. The phone calls I've had from the top, the things that they've done for me, family, the invitations, the care, the after-player respect that I've had off that club, blow your mind. blow your mind I don't need a statue to feel a love off Liverpool there's enough there's been enough my respect for Liverpool has only gone stronger and thicker and more fonder since the day I retired because in my mind I thought you just fizzled into the Liverpool Football Club have gave me more love and care and respect since I've stopped playing for them good answer Stevie Top man Waited a long time To get you man It was worth the wait I still tried To put this one off Thanks man Appreciate it Top draw You weren't struggling In an interview When you were going For a job I'll tell you that Fucking hell

1:00:23We'll be right back. be another year of falling just short? Probably. World Cup Daily, listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch full episodes on YouTube.