The Debrief: Giggs on How Marcus Rashford rebuilds relationship with Man United fans

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0:32so it was you Sir Alex and Pep having dinner and a few of Sir Alex's friends so there's about eight of us and he sat me next to Pep I've gone to Pep and says you know who do you like at United he went well who do you think so I went De Gea he went no Luke Shaw I was just like no he said the best player at Man United Marcus Rashford I would take him tomorrow wow and I went oh right okay and that just made me, what's he seeing, Pep?

1:08Welcome to Rio Presents The Debrief. This is the closest you're going to get to being inside the dressing room at Old Trafford because joining me is one of the defining figures in Manchester United's history, Mr. Ryan Giggs. Giggs has spent his entire career at Old Trafford. 13 Premier Leagues, countless accolades, almost a thousand games. He experienced different teams and eras along with some of the biggest moments this club has ever seen. Throughout the season, we'll sit down and talk about some of the biggest talking points around Manchester United. We've shared the dressing room, we've played under that pressure and lived with the standards that this club demands.

1:46So guys, we can cut through the headlines. I mean, we've been there, we've lived and breathed this. We can get through the rubbish, right? And you know what? We actually know what it feels like to live and breathe this and to be here inside this massive club. And you know what? I'm so excited for this. There's loads to get through. I can't wait to share our experiences. You know what? Let's get him on.

2:05E.C., what's happening? You all right, mate? How you doing? You all right? Yeah, good, yeah. Where are you? I'm just back in Dubai now. How are you? Absolutely roasting. Oh, is it? Oh, mate. Late 40s. You'd love it. Is it? Yeah. You just don't go out? No, no, you don't sit outside. Everything's aircon inside, man. The best way. otherwise it's just like, mate, it's like opening the oven door and it just hitting you. Yeah. It's the best thing. Where have you been this summer? Where have you been? So I went to Portugal for a week. Oh, yeah. That's where I've seen that Elliot Anderson. By the way, being on the beach meeting probably the most talked about Premier League player of that period, was it before the transfer?

2:48It was literally a few days before he went to the World Cup. Oh. I peppered him. he didn't know how to take it first, and then he relaxed a little bit. Because you go into him, like, listen, United's about selling the club in. The club's the best. That's what I do when I see some players. I don't care. Real, for the first four or five alls, we were literally crossing, and at the end of it, he went, well, you just leave me alone. You just let me play my golf, please. You're in trouble. You've got to try all sorts to get these deals over. It's mad, though. Obviously, the price tag was crazy, and it's just astronomical money, and Man United ain't got the budget to pay for that.

3:25Yeah. He's a good player, isn't he? Yeah, he's a good player. So Ryan, this is the second time we've sat down and spoke. I mean, last time on Rio Meats, we spoke. And there's something from that interview that really always stayed with me. Your three values that a Man United player has to have. Running and working hard. Wanting to take the ball. And playing with imagination and risk. But for a new player coming through the doors, why are those so important? I say taking the ball because when a lot of the time, obviously we were on top and we were winning and controlling games, but there's also times where we didn't win leagues, we were under pressure.

4:04That's when you really do need to step up and take the ball when others might hide. It's tough because you're maybe not playing well, maybe the crowd... You've been at Old Trafford after it's 0-0, 20 minutes gone, and there's a wayward pass and it's like the crowd... You hear that moan, don't you? you may not get that you know Fulham Everton after 20 minutes you expect it to be 3-0 up and if it's not happening it's 0-0 and a wayward pass and then you're thinking jeez you know do I want the ball and you know do I want that pressure and obviously the top players and the majority of the players at United yeah just give me the ball I don't care I don't care about the crowd you block it out give me the ball I'll make something happen for a new player which there'll be loads are new players at clubs after this window's closed.

4:58What's their most important thing that they need to get right straight away, to bed themselves in? What was important to you when you signed? You know, was you nervous? Was you like, you know, how did you feel when you come into the club? Because obviously there was a big price tag. We knew the quality that you had because you'd showed it, but you knew they had the quality. So it was you like, yeah, if I play to my best, I'm going to be all right here because I know that, I know what I'm capable of. Yeah, I mean, you were confident in your own ability, but it's a new environment and you're playing around like superstars and players that know how to win.

5:34And can I get up to that level every week? Can I come in and add to what they do? So that's a pressure you put on yourself. And then it's about how do you do it? Do you know what I mean? And I probably was never more nervous than my first training session at United. And we spoke about it last time we saw each other about how that went. And it wasn't a great start. but it's having that resilience and understanding and know from the get-go it ain't going to be perfect. There's only some people that have that perfect rider that'll be like, waza, he comes in and scores the hat-trick, it's perfect.

6:05For a defender, it's very different. I ain't going to have a chance to score a goal or two, three goals in the first game to settle me down. There's going to be different moments in the game that I need to see consistently that are going to go, right, I'm meant to be here. So it takes time, but you need, I think, people like yourself, you was important for me in that, yeah, he was experienced, but you did give me little insights into, this week, by the way, it's Liverpool. This ain't a joke. This week, if you think you played in big games before now, watch when we go to Anfield. So getting myself ready.

6:37And I spoke to Chicharito on the show before and he talked about that intelligence and being intelligent enough to ask questions, have conversations with people and looking at other players and to see what he could do better than others and identifying weaknesses in the team where he could fill those gaps is really important, those things. When did you realise that, I mean, obviously you played at big clubs, West Ham and Leeds. When did you realise that it was different? Was it a defeat or was it just coming into the training environment? Was it the expectation? Yeah, I think all of those things.

7:10I think the expectation to win every game was crazy. I'd drawn games at previous clubs and was like walking up the pitch thinking, right, where are we going? Where are we celebrating tonight? Like, that just weren't the case, a man, you know, a draw was like, it was a moog in the dressing room after. Everybody is silent, you know, or they were shouting and arguing because we've drawn a game. Even a win sometimes. We've won, but we haven't played well. Yeah, I'll never forget. Do you remember the game against Bolton when we were like three or four, one up or some four, four, four, or something like that.

7:41And we all come in high-fiving and the manager just sat us down and went bananas in the changing room. We're all looking at each other going, is he for real? He's going, you could lose this league on goal difference. I kind of thought you've got to punish these teams. It was like those situations, there you go, that don't happen anywhere else at that time. And so it was like, but I think my biggest thing was being able to walk into the changing room around the corridors at Old Trafford when I'm rubbing shoulders with the likes of like you, Keeney, Bex, all these guys, Scolzi, et cetera. And then seeing Brian Robson and Sir Bobby Charlton and I'm sitting there going, I've got to win some stuff.

8:18Not one or two things. I've got to win quite a lot of things to even be able to sit at the bar with these guys, let alone be on the same training field and feel comfortable. And it took me a good couple of years, three, four years, before I could even feel comfortable, feel like I was part of the furniture at the club. Because there's so much that's been done before. The history is heavy. I'll tell you from my perspective, it was like, I'm a fan. And you know it. You know when we sign someone, it's like we get excited. We're just like fans. We get excited. several several several we signed several we signed wayne rooney ronnie you get excited so you you want them to do well but also at the same time you want to test them so it's a weird dynamic that you know you want to help them as well but also you realize what you're coming into it and you maybe smash them in training you maybe give them a little bit of a a dodgy ball just to see, you know, how is he going to handle that?

9:18And it's a weird scenario. It's like tough love, I suppose. It's like, right, let's see how good, because when we signed you, I'm excited, you know, because we have got the best senator half in Europe coming, but how is he going to handle it? Come on. It's not Leeds now. It's Man United. Yeah, yeah. It is mad. And that point is such a valid point, because even Harry Maguire, who we saw a while ago on the show, he said even players that come from the likes of Chelsea, say the step up to Man United is unbelievable. Because the expectation is different and also the reaction to results or incidents are now global news where they were just put under the carpet.

9:57Other clubs, big clubs that you look at. And I played for Leeds, it's a big club, but half the stuff that we'd done, if that happened to Man United, we'd have all been up in the front pages and back pages of newspapers because it's just looked at very differently through the lens of Manchester United. And I look back and like, Even for you, probably, who were the players who made an immediate impact that you went, wow, oh my God, that's just like, I thought you were good, but wow. Well, Wayne, obviously. Wayne stands out. Obviously, Cristiano, his debut. After that, he struggled for a bit. To Cristiano?

10:35Yeah, yeah. I mean, he had an unbelievable debut against Bolton, and then he was sort of in and out of the team, wasn't he? and then obviously he went on and just hit levels that you've never seen before. People forget that he had a sticky patch when he first signed. What was your role? You played a similar position at the time. So what were you saying to him if he were in those moments where it seemed quite difficult for him at the beginning? Yeah, I don't recall saying too much to him. I remember actually it was a real aggressive tackle in training on him and the manager had a go at me. it was it was where it was winter and he's come across and he's running with the ball and I slide tackled him and he went flying and I remember the manager going to me Ryan calm down I was like no he's got to pass the ball he's got to pass the ball he's took too many touches so it was them so yeah it wasn't so much but Ronnie was tough I knew that he could take it and all of a sudden the penny dropped you know he wasn't diving as much he wasn't taking too many touches because obviously it's well documented you know rude just getting the um because there was too many step overs he's waiting for a cross he's making a run to the near post and the ball just wasn't coming so finally those sort of things that the penny dropped that actually touch out my feet cross it next time dribble so them sort of changing the way that um he approached the game rather than just dribbling every time which in portugal he was used to doing growing up he was used to because he could beat everyone.

12:04But coming to Premier League and the Champions League was a little bit more difficult. And then teams double up on you and teams try and stop you because he is such a talent. So, yeah, it was more sort of those things, really, that I remember, with Ronnie especially. But the ones who stood out for me were like Chicharito, Oli Gunnar, that you didn't know too much about. And all of a sudden you see him in training, you go, oh, my God. I remember Oli's first training session at the cliff, and we did a shooting practice after training. And I'm like, he scored a header. He scored right foot. He scored left foot.

12:42He scored volleys. I remember going home to my mates that afternoon and going, we've just signed Alan Shearer. We've just signed a player. Honestly, because Shearer could score every type of goal. I said, we've just signed someone. And they're like, who is it? I said, Oli, going to sort. All right, okay. You'd never really heard of him. And he was an unbelievable finisher. And it was the same with Chicha. Chicha, for me, was just a godsend because I want to play the ball in behind defenders. He ran offside a lot, Chicha. Yeah. But he was just a dream because you knew that he didn't really want the ball to fit.

13:16He wanted to run in behind. And you had Wayne just in them little pockets. He was a dream. But it was them ones that you didn't know a lot about and you come and they were brilliant. It's mad because those two guys you just mentioned there, I would put them up as two of the most intelligent players that I've played alongside. Oli, knowing where to run to get on the end of things, to finish, what types of finishes he always thought about. And Chisha, he mentioned actually that exact moment that he said what he had to learn when you were on the ball. And one of those things was to get into areas where you wanted to put the ball, which was behind defenders.

13:50So it's crazy the intelligence that you have to have. People forget the intelligence of a player that they need to have to succeed. Crazy. But it's also relationships. So, you know, the relationship that I had early on with Dennis Irwin, then later on with Patrice, different players, but that relationship and that chatting to them. And, you know, Dennis, as soon as you get it on your right foot, I'm coming and spinning him behind because he could then just play that ball. He had it in him to play that ball, especially early on. I would say that to Dennis, as soon as you're right, don't even look at me, I'm gone.

14:26so it was them relationship patrice it was a little bit more i had to sort of get used to it because he loved that underlap he would play it into you and just running and i would just flick it and he would just he'd bounce off players patrice feel like he's going to fall down and just carry on running and that was something that we had to develop so i think it's really important that you know as a wide man i had the relationship with the fullback i also had the relationship with the centre forward. Where's Rude going to be? Where's Oli going to be? Where's Coley going to be? Where's Eric going to be?

14:59All these players, they had different runs. So you had to, without even thinking, because sometimes, you know, you're under pressure off the defender, you get it out of your feet. Right, okay. Is it a cutback? The defender's going to try and stop your cross. There's that gap through the legs. Cut it back. Is it going to be Oli? Oli, Teddy, they like to get across the near post. Rude, you know he's going to be in the middle of the box. you know he's going to be he's going to be there he's going to be there every single time so over a season that consistency not all the time obviously you didn't find them all the time but you knew more often than not where the players were going to be without even looking so it's really important that you you get them relationships you know you had it obviously with either way it's just you don't even have to think you know where he is you had it with gaznev these players that you have the relationship with on a football pitch and sometimes you get it straight away sometimes it takes a bit of time it's mad that because i went i've got some time to spend in dublin on the the pre-season tour with the current team and that's one thing you're looking at when you're looking for when you're on a training pitch looking is there any relationships who has the banter etc but i was i was saying to the guys they look so sharp it was looked in the session that i saw and it was really interesting to see that how they're integrating the young players in the squad some of the kids you'd never heard of but the Shea Lacy's the Fletcher twins um the kid JJ Gabriel mate have you seen this kid I've seen him in the youth cup final where he was a bit quiet but I've heard I've heard off Fletch I've heard of Johnny Evans I watched I watched a session like a small sided game tight area he's off both feet ridiculous getting getting a yard and just bang so small so slight doesn't allow people like contact but also he done a shooting drill imagine being 15 right and you're on the training of the current pfa player of the year captain of your football club best player at your club and you and him at a focal point for a shooting drill in front of everybody like mate like when you boil it down to that what he's doing and he's looking comfortable and he's looking unfazed i forget his ability just his mental ability to be able to put the noise yeah put the noise out of the way and do something like that my legs would have been gone.

17:14I can remember getting called over to the first team training pitch when I was 17, 18. And I was like, oh my, this is going to be right. Gather yourself, get your thoughts together. But it just looked like calm, man. It was unreal. That sounds like Wayne, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah, the mindset. Just give me the ball. Give me the ball. You know, just I don't care who I'm training with. You've been through this because you as a young superstar come through and everyone was like, wow, who the hell is this guy? So there's a lot of similarities in that sense with someone like yourself. What does he need to aim for at this stage, being a young kid in and around the first team right now?

17:48You need to play. You need to play games because, and it's difficult because if you're in squads for the first team, you're not going to sort of turn that down. But also you need minutes on the pitch. And it's also a couple of times I went up and trained with the first team and then I go back to the youth team is how they react to that. and are they still showing that same ability when they go back? Because you would hope that even though they might be his mates, they're giving him, he's just been up to the first team, right, let's see how he is when he comes back. They're not going to give him an easy ride.

18:27And of course, he should have the ability to navigate that. But he's at the best club because the history of young players coming through and how they're looked after. and he's got good people around him. Obviously, he's played at the club. Michael Carrick, Darren Fletcher, Johnny Evans, all these players have been at the club. A couple of them have come through. So he's at the right club. But I remember I was 15 when I first trained with the first team at the Clifver. I remember getting called, you're training with the first teams. And I remember just the manager just saying to me, just don't do anything different.

19:08Just do exact, you're here for a reason for what you've done in the youth team. Just carry on doing that. I don't want to see anything different. Take players on. Simple as that. Right, man, we've got loads still to come right out on this pod, but we'll be back shortly after this.

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21:13I went on loan, right? Obviously, I'm not saying he should go on loan, but young players of that age, if they're not getting the minutes in the person, they get itchy feet, they want to go out on loan. It was great for me, but it didn't work for him. Harry Kane wasn't great for him in terms of you didn't see him set the world out on loan. but he still managed to have a great career. And then you've got Foden, who had to stay around the first team and learn from the players there and the quality that was there because Guardiola thought that was right for him. What would you think would be right for someone like him?

21:41Would you advise him to go on loan or would you say stay? Well, I think it is sort of a generational talent. He's got to stay. There's no point in going out on loan because he's at the best place and he'd be dipping in and out of the first team. So that experience is invaluable. You know, not only the games and the training, but actually travelling with the team, seeing the expectation of Man United. You're seeing all sort of the focus is so huge on Manchester United. You need to get used to that. And I was lucky that I sort of come through that. I didn't come from a different environment and had to get used to that like you described before.

22:24And I think you go on loan when you're 19, 20. The next few years, you expect him to, if he's going the same way, to be in the first team soon as a regular, not just dipping in and out. So, yeah, when you go out on loan, it's really important that you pick the right club. Is it a club that you're going to play because you need minutes? is it a team that play similar to the team that you've just come from? Is it a stable environment, which is very difficult in this day and age? Is the manager going to get sacked next week and he's going to put older players in? He's not going to chance it with younger players.

23:07So all these things you've got to take into account when you go out on loan. And of course it can work. Bex went to Preston, didn't last long there because he's just so good and he came back and obviously got into the first team. And also, who's in front of you? You know, Bex probably went on loan because he had Adrian Kinchelskis in front of him. So who have you got in front of you that, okay, the next couple of years you're not really going to get a game here because we've got such and such. But he will be gone in a couple of years and then you come in. Yeah, it is mad. Look, if we're going to call him that generational talent that's being touted around him, right, those types of generational talents don't really go on loan, do they?

23:46Like a Rooney, a Michael Owen, yourself. like those guys and I do feel with him he's quite a unique frame and build as well he's very slight very small so a lot of the time you send him kids out to go on loan one of the things you want him to get beat up a little bit can they handle the rigour of the lower leagues that primes them and gets them ready for the first team I don't think he needs that because he's game deal about staying away from contact because he's that good so he'd probably be one I'd probably steer clear of alone like you say unless he was going abroad maybe but that's not going to get him ready for the Premier League necessarily.

24:20No, no. And I do think it's harder to get in the 11 now than when I was, you know, the squad when I was 16, 17, it was an 18-man squad. Now, you know, you look at Max Downman, how is he going to get in that Arsenal team? He looks unbelievable. I mean, but in front of him is a title-winning team and it's a big squad. You see that. not only the starting XI, but the subs as well. What do you like about him, Max Dalman? Have you seen much of him? Oh, I've seen him. It was against United in the Youth Cup. The Youth Cup, yeah. And I'd heard about him. And do you know what? He won the penalty and then took it against players two years above him.

25:14I'm thinking I'm putting myself because I played in the youth team like two years below two years above sorry and I'm just putting myself in that position right I've just won the pen and I'm grabbing the ball and taking it that's not happening when I was in my youth team because there was players big personalities and I'm watching that's when I stood up and I messaged Albert who's the coach I said who's this Max Dowman I said he looks unbelievable he went he's a special player That's all he said. He said he's a special player. That's the Arsenal coach, isn't he? He's a coach at Arsenal. Yeah, he's assistant to Mikel.

25:51But yeah, that's when it really... Forget about the things that he did. He did an unbelievable run to win the penalty. But then what really stood out for me, it's like, give me the ball, I'm taking it. As a coach, what's your advice for those who are looking after talents like JJ Gabriel or Max Dowman at the club, at Manchester United specifically? Well, he's trying to quieten the noise. outside, once you're on the training pitch, once you're playing games, it's where you want to be. It's the noise after that. Our agents, our family, pushing for him to start. If one day he's not in the squad, they're kicking up a fuss.

26:31Why is he not in the squad? He should be in the squad. It's having the right people around him. I said about the people at the club who are good people, have been there, seen it. But also it's when you come away from that environment at Carrington that have you got the right people? And sometimes you have to be patient. Sometimes it gets to a point where you just can't not pick him and not have him train in the first team. You know, it gets to a stage where and sometimes that might be, you know, in a month, might be six months, might be a year. So it's that in-between time where he thinks he should be in the first team.

27:08He thinks he'll be in the squad every. but actually Michael sees it a different way that actually no you need to play games because it's not really going to do you any good travelling here, there and everywhere and you're getting five minutes here, ten minutes there. I want to move it on, right? Marcus Rashford, given the situation that he's in now and what he's been through I don't think there's many more better placed people to talk about him someone who's come through the club as an academy graduate but also I remember you telling me about the time that you got booed by the May United fans for a period of time, but also coming through that period and then winning countless trophies and different accolades.

27:46Marcus is looking, obviously, to do the same thing right now and repair the relationship with the club, repair the relationship with the fans. But before that, let's break him down as a player. What are his greatest strengths coming back as a main night? Yeah. I mean, obviously, I was part of the coaching staff when Marcus made his debut. So I remember we got told about him. So me and Louis, who was the manager at the time, obviously, we went over. The first team had finished training. We went over and watched the reses. So Marcus was playing in a small-sided game, and he scored just two goals, right foot, left foot, bang, bang.

28:26And it was like, what have we just seen? And Louis turns to me like Louis does, and he went, you will tell him he is in my team. and just walked off. And I'm like, stood there going, what's that mean? And obviously a few days later, he makes his debut, scores a couple of goals. But that was as a centre forward. And he was always a centre forward. Do you know, somebody's just come to me. I had dinner with, it was with Sir Alex and it was with Pep as well. He has a charity sort of auction where someone bids to have dinner with. We've done it with Klopp. We've done it with Pep. We did it with Eric.

29:12So it was you, Sir Alex, and Pep having dinner? And a few of Sir Alex's friends. So there's about eight of us. So he sat me next to Pep. So I've gone, and this was about, I'm going to say about eight or nine years ago.

29:32And I've gone to Pep and says, you know who do you like at united he went well who do you think so i went the hair who um no luke shaw i was just like no he said the best player man united marcus rashford i would take him tomorrow wow and i went oh right okay and that just made me what's he seeing pep what's he and that was obviously as a center forward now he's obviously moved over to the left more or less And it's, in a way, I feel a little bit sorry for me. Because I grew up as a winger. You know, you've got me, you've got Kunchalskis, you've got Beckham, you've got Nani, you've got G. We're all used to that box-to-box.

30:16It's a different dynamic. It's like you're going to Ryback. It's a different dynamic, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Up and down, up and down. Now, Marcus has moved from centre forward with sharp little movements. Of course, you've got to sprint. but playing on the I know it's a bit different from when I played and it was 4-4-2 you know it is a little bit different where they're sort of like wide forwards now but you the fundamentals don't change you've still got to track your fullback you've still got to be on that back post if the right wing go or the right backs crossing the ball you've still got to be on the edge of the box if they're if the opposition are attacking ready for that counter attack and it is a different dynamic and Marcus a couple of times have maybe not stayed with runners, maybe just jogged back instead of sprinted back.

31:07At Old Trafford, what gets the crowd going? Work ethic, graft, tackle. I talked about before, it's nil-nil after 20 minutes. A goal, a shot, a tackle. Do you remember when he won the ball back? Yeah, it was Craig Bremers. Marcus, that's what you need to do. I mean, it's not what you think you want the team to do. You're in there to... What did you used to say to me when I was going out? Assist goals. Assist goals. But also, you need to do the... That will get the fans, that will get the fans, because forget the other stuff, they'll forgive you for dribbling and getting tackled or hitting a shot over.

31:54Not all the time, obviously, but they won't forgive you for not tracking back. They just won't. And I love Marcus and I want him to do well. And I wasn't sure if it was right for him to come back because just the whole hyper, it always seems to be around Marcus and it's a lot of pressure for him. But he's got the talent. He was running up players. He was tracking back. Just do that. Do that for a season. You will be a superstar. No, I agree. And I totally agree. and I've been saying that the last few weeks about him coming back and I want to see him come back but last time we spoke about his situation on Rio meets we were both the same we were both like it's probably the ship's sailed now a new chapter don't go back but I think there was things going on at the time that probably led us to go down that route but also I think time is a healer as well and the fact that he had a really good season at Barca and you sense there was maybe a maturity in him in that spell there led me to believe that if he wants to, he could come back and change that around.

32:59And like you said, with the work ethic and the running, add the goals and the assists into it that will inevitably come, he's got a great chance to do that. In terms of going through the difficulties, like I spoke about at the top of this, in terms of being booed at times before maybe, or the sentiment... I thought I'd got away with talking about that. I thought I'd got away with talking about being booed. But you know that negative sentiment that's maybe around the place a little bit, or definitely before he signed, how would you say, given you've been through something similar, would you say for him to deal with that, bar going out there and just working hard?

33:35well you just mentioned maturity which is a really important point that some players mature at different stages and maybe you know it has just matured and the experience of going and playing at a huge club like Barcelona and coming back and wanting to prove himself and that maturity but I remember when I went through my tough patch and I was sort of what sort of player I'm no longer that flying winger I want to play a little bit more inside be that little sort of play in the pockets i could still go past players but i had hamstring injuries and it was a real tricky spell for me that i wasn't i was still i was trying to find out what sort of player that i wanted to be later in my career and it was hard because i was no longer sort of being really direct and attacking i'd sort of lost that and i'd get the ball and cross it and i remember the manager saying to me you're not david beckham you're you're ryan gigs you know you're you can cross it but your ability your skill your why you're getting picked is for running up players and making things happen and i did little drills in training i remember pulling renee mullinstein and just saying just i want to just do a little bit of sharpness work just want to just put a few cones out and I want to do a few shooting practice so I want to go out wide dribble through a few cones and just get that little bit of sharpness back and you also need help from your teammates from the coaching staff I remember I was going through that tough spot tough spell and I was I was getting ready to to go out Old Trafford and I was Dean Saunders was next to me he was obviously a teammate with me at um at Wales and even though he was an opposition he was obviously someone who um i got home with a new well and he just turned to me like dino would and just come out with this one liner and just went and he knew that was going through obviously a tough tough patch and he just went giggs cream always rises to the top and just carried on walking what's he doing there what's he doing his teammates honestly he used to come out with one lines but it actually gave me a bit of a boost even though uh he was in the opposition and yeah there's so many different things that first of all you have to do it on the training pitch you have to you have to work hard and then gradually the the belief and the confidence will come back because the ability doesn't leave you and what i've seen going back to marcus right from the beginning he just looked and what i've seen in the past that with Marcus is, you know, he starts off really well, first 20, 25 minutes.

36:14And then because you're a winger, sometimes you're relying on, you know, service and sometimes you won't get that service. Or sometimes there's games where you get loads of the ball. Sometimes there's games where you won't get perhaps as much of the ball and then you need to maybe go searching for it. But I can't tell you how important that tracking back and winning that tackle is as a winger for Man United. the crowd will go mad the crowd will be back on your side you haven't touched both 10 minutes and you track back and win a tackle it's huge and it gives you confidence and it gives right give me the ball now and i'll do my stuff so yeah there's no doubt in his ability but and again go back to what i originally said it doesn't come naturally to him because he's not he's not an actual wide man he's had to learn sort of the position and like you used to say assists goals are really important but also don't forget that dirty work where you have to sprint back not jog back sprint back and win the ball back just to go back i know you don't want to talk about it but but yeah did it hurt when you got booed because i'm thinking about him now did it hurt when you got booed but also could you understand it in a in a roundabout way yeah i'd set expectations and i'd set a standard i'd dropped below that standard and it was hurting i felt it actually that season ended up being one of my best scored quite a few goals we won the league and i actually ended the season really well but during that sort of winter period it was tough it was a tough period for me but i knew that the only way to get it back was back on the training ground sort of that regains your confidence and it will come back.

38:02You know, I believed in my ability, but it was tough. It was really tough. You know what? Before we move on, Rahab, you mentioned something. I've got to get a little bit more details on it. You said you had a dinner with Sir Alex and Pep and a few of his mates. Where did you go? Who chose the wine? What's going on there? Who do you think chose the wine? Agatha definitely chose the wine. Yeah, yeah. It was red. What was Pep like with Agatha? It's hard sometimes because you're next to Pep and I'm sort of a young, up-and-coming coach and you just want to extract everything you can. But he's asking you questions.

38:44And, you know, what was it like in the first team at United when you were coming? And it's like a two-way come. I just want to just pepper him with questions and he's asking me questions. So it was just, it was, yeah, it was an experience. It was brilliant. I mean, like I say, he'd done it with Klopp, done it with Eric Cantona. Last year, it was with, you know, the actor Gary Oldman. So it's a really good, you know, it's a different array of people, but it's a really good, really good evening. Yeah. No, no, you know, I've loved this chat because you know what, this like memory lane and just like nostalgic moments and just talking about details of the game.

39:24this is the type of stuff I love and we'll do loads of these loads more throughout the season with you Ryan but I just want to finish with I heard a story about you getting told by someone on a beach to get Man United to scout Kylian Mbappe is that true? Yeah No way is that true? I'm in the south of France so it was around so I was coach I was coach at United so it would be 2015 so i'm in south of france i've been to a walk in the local village and i'm walking back to the hotel i'm walking on the beach back to the hotel and you can feel i can feel someone you know when you feel someone like following you and i'm like i get to the hotel and then all of a sudden i can feel someone coming up to me anyway this guy is called uh lionel or we call lionel but lionel French guy.

40:17So he comes up to me and says, hi, I'm Lionel. I just wanted to just say hello. I'm a big United fan and big fan of yours. And well, I watch a lot of youth football in France. And you have to look at this player. He's called Kylian Mbappe. He's he's at Monaco. And he's I think he's a player from United. So I'm like, so I was like, all right, OK, you know, like, right. okay then and he went can I have your email um address so anyway a few weeks later um emailed me all the details so me and Albert again who's the coach at McKet uh with uh Arsenal he was another assistant at United at the time we used to in the afternoons just go and watch games or go and watch players um at the training ground so anyway I've told him about this thing he says come on let's get him up and we could we got a few youth cup youth games with Monaco and we seen him and went just like wow what what is you know you can see players and they can be special but this he did look he did look like exceptional obviously so anyway um i told so albert was gonna have to tell the scouting team so anyway we told the scouting team they went to watch him someone in france went to watch him and he was actually playing psg monaco were playing psg so they went to Paris to watch him.

41:42Anyway, I think a few weeks later I said to this guy, how did it go? He went, yeah, they wasn't too sure about him. So I just went, all right, okay. And that was it really. And this same guy, Lionel, because I went through my texts with him and 2018 he's telling me about, there's a player, he is under 14s but he's playing under 17s, Ryan Cherky. No way. Yeah, and then he's... Next message, there's a player, St Etienne Saliba. I think he'd be a good player for Man United. What? What are you doing with this information? You've got to give it to me because I am agent hurdle. Yeah.

42:28So, yeah, I've only just got... Honestly, so at the time, obviously, I didn't know who they were. He's got a lot of other players who didn't quite make it as well. So it wasn't just, you know, it's picking out superstars. yeah so it is true Cherky's my favourite player to watch at the moment by the way I love him but when he said the other day on TV that listen like listen alright I'm going to start playing now if you're going to bring me off and just like close the game out like crazy crazy it's the Mavericks who sort of we've sort of like probably said there's not as many as there used to be but they're still out there you know Cherky Palma Foden when he gets back to his best obviously you've got Bruno You know, you've got all these players who you want to watch, who make things happen.

43:13What do you think about Foden, by the way? Because I've seen quite a few people saying, what's going on with this here? People are saying that he's fallen off. But I'm more of the mindset that sometimes you need someone in your camp to be talking to you and telling you about these pivotal moments in your career. You had a pivotal moment where you were finding yourself as what player you're going to be at this stage in your career. and you understood that. Some people need a tap on his shoulder and go, well, excuse me. And I think that's what Foden might need now if he hasn't had it. I'd be surprised in that when people leave, big players leave, someone else steps up and takes on the role of responsibility in the team.

43:53And I think now is his time to become the David Silva of that team. Well, like I said before with me, you set a standard and when you drop below that standard, you open for criticism. and Phil Foden, the way that he burst on at the scene, what a talent, unbelievable, you know, winning leagues, winning individual honours and then injuries, loss of form. Then you have to navigate all of that loss of confidence potentially. So, but he's got the ability and it's how, you know, he might come through this period as a better player, but, you know, like I said before training having the right people around you and just getting that confidence back because especially these forward players confidence is a big thing it is it's a big thing with every player but especially because when you're a player who likes to make things happen you maybe not try the difficult one you'll try the safe pass now you're not in the team to do that you're in the team to to make that difficult pass to beat players which he's capable of doing and yeah, I think he'll come back.

45:05I think he's a top player and he's a player that just needs to sort of, maybe what I was going through, just that find himself, what sort of player he really is and what position suits him and then obviously you need that bit of luck and that bit of consistency but he's got the ability without a shadow of a doubt. Well, listen, Gizzi, man, I've loved having this chat. Great to hear some of the old stories and the memories but also like your perspective on not only that players but the game today and like we're going to have loads and more of these to come in this season like make sure I'll be on time next time and I won't be late sorry about that but I'll see you next time man look forward to seeing you yeah okay mate cheers look forward to it top man

46:11We'll be right back.

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