The Debrief: Why Playing Lionel Messi Was “Impossible” for Man United

0:00Hi Pod fans, Max here. Barry's here too. Hello. And now the Premier League is back, Barry, meaning we'll be providing incredibly astute analysis three times a week wherever you get your podcasts. Barry, with the remaining 10 seconds of this advert, can you provide some astute analysis? I think Arsenal are going to win the Premier League. And there you are. For more hot takes like that, watch or listen to Football Weekly wherever you get your podcasts. Do you know when you played against him, did you feel that he had like that, an aura around him in those games? I don't know if you agree, but that's the best team that I ever played against, the one at Wembley.

0:33Xavi Busquets, Puyol, Iniesta. I think if it was a different player than Messi, we could have beaten that team. But with Messi, it was impossible. I think it was impossible. Right, for people who will never get a chance to play against Lionel Messi, we've both done it. We've both played against him. Now he's retired from international football. it's time for me and Giggsie to tell you what it's actually like. Giggsie, I'll let you take the floor first because it weren't good. It's not nice, is it? No, no. It wasn't actually, you know, the first couple of times we played against him, it was all right because he was on the right.

1:10Yeah. And remember, Patrice did a really good job against him. And then he got that sort of free roll where he just drifted everywhere. and Champions League final at Wembley. I'm obviously playing midfield, so he's in around my area or he's coming to my area and I just thought, first few minutes I'm going to just smash him. And I bounced off him and I tried to kick him as hard as I could and he didn't even flinch and he just dribbled off. And him and Cristiano, obviously the levels that they've gone to, and the ability and the goals and just the consistency. But what people forget as well, these are tough.

1:59They don't miss games. They're never injured. So the professionalism and the toughness where, okay, they don't play 20, 30 years ago where there's ridiculous tackles, but they still get tackled and they get up and they don't miss games and they're not injured. They're just levels that we'll never, ever see again. And he was, you know, it was like you can't get your arm across him because he's too small. He just ducked under. He was too quick. He could go either way. His acceleration, more than anything, was just in a short space, was just the best I've ever seen where you think you've got him and he's gone.

2:40And it was a nightmare. Yeah, I mean, he was obviously more towards you as well. But in that little pocket, you were blaming me, pick him up. And I'm like, no, no, you push up, you push up, you take him. He just knew where to go, where it was impossible for people to pick him up. Like he did in the game against England in the World Cup. He went to an area where everyone's going, well, we should have gone and got out to him. But for some reason in the game, you can't do it. and I don't know what, I still can't work out how and why we couldn't do it, but he just, that's intelligence. That's just game IQ of knowing where to be.

3:19And you spoke about there the transition from wide to being someone who operates in the middle free roll area. Now, he done that as good as you've ever seen it. I think someone like Laminio Mal might fall into that category later on. Like, what are the challenges from going from a winger to playing inside where there's more bodies around you and stuff? Well, there is more bodies around you, but you can go either way, which is just everything just sort of opens up. Whereas, you know, you're playing out wide, a fullback will show you one way. And, you know, I'm saying Messi was unbelievable as a winger, but he just went on to a different level when he went in that sort of free roll because you could double back on it.

4:01You could show him one way, like I say, and you could just bide yourself a little bit of time. And when he picks up, and by the way, he walks into these pockets. He don't run. I've never seen someone walk as much as Lionel Messi. And he just, he saves energy. And you have teams also, you know, a little bit built around him because he gives you so much. So he just walks into little areas and then picks up the ball. And like I say, from a standing start to full speed, I've never seen anything like it. at a low trajectory where you can't get your arm across him. He's tough. Unplayable. You've spoken about his acceleration being a super strength.

4:48Would you put that out there at that time as being one of the strongest parts of his game? Yeah, his balance and his acceleration because play will come across, accelerate away from him, but he's also got the balance and the strength. He was strong. he's tiny but he was just his legs were bit he was just he had everything bravery taking the ball

5:14positioning the ball away from the defender just that's the bit I think Giggsie I think that's the bit sorry to interrupt you I think that's the bit I think is an underrated part of his game his ability to find space we always talk about what he does with the ball but his ability to pick up space when he's the most explosive player on the pitch and the most deadly player on the pitch and the most decisive player, normally those guys are picked up or they've got someone around them all the time. He just always gets the ball with time and space around him. It's just like a mad, mad trait he's got.

5:45Yeah. And you know that the opposition will be whoever's closest to him get next to him, but no one ever could. And that's just his experience, his intelligence. He could just take the ball. and the amount of times that the ball was pinged into him and he's just stopped dead. He had everything. He's got headers. Right, man, we've got loads still to come right on this pod, but we'll be back shortly after this.

6:19Hi, I'm Max Rushton, the host of the Guardian Football Weekly, alongside me, Barry Glendening, my co-host. Hey, Barry. Hello. Now, although every American found this during the World Cup, for the two that didn't, what can they expect? found us and fell in love with us, Max. They can expect three episodes each week of occasionally insightful analysis covering the Premier League, Champions League, and beyond. Football Weekly is back. Watch on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts. Who says Halloween only lasts one day? With Wayfair, one night of Halloween becomes a whole season at home.

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7:37I think if it was a different player than Messi, we could have beaten that team. But with Messi, it was impossible. I think it was impossible. And I've never said that. You know, I've never, because they got such good players, but then they had Messi and he was just, who picks him up? He walks off into that sort of pocket on the right, walks off to that fuck in the left give it in bang he's off it was unnerving because you walk onto a pitch of Man United and you think no matter how good the team are you know play against Real Madrid Juventus AC Milan you think you can beat them but it was when you look back on that game it was it was so hard because of Messi as well as obviously the other great players that they had You spoke about walking there is that something as a coach with a coaching hat on that you would encourage more players to do?

8:32Or is that just for special talents only? Well, I do like players when they sort of stand in their pockets because as a defender, it must unnerve you when you see a player just stood there and the ball's moving and he's not moving, he's just stood there. And I don't mind that because the ball will eventually, especially if the game plan is messy, get the ball to Messi, eventually he will get the ball. if he's running there, running there, you know where he is, right? Okay, I can go. If the ball's over there and he's just stood there, just looking uninterested, it's not normal. It isn't normal just to walk into pockets.

9:15But when you have got teams built around special players, obviously them special players have then got produced and they do. Well, Messi did. Much of the time. Every time. Yeah. You know, again, with your coaching hat on now, is there anything you think about that game at Wembley, especially, that you go, we could have done that differently, other than just playing better? I think we had to play the perfect game, and they had to have a bit of an off night. Hmm. True. They didn't have any weaknesses, really. The wrong game, we should have done better. And it's not dissimilar. sort of the two teams.

10:01I just felt it was with Messi and the way where he played, it was just, it was very, very hard. Because we played so well that season with the team that we started with in Europe. But so it was hard for us to sort of adjust and maybe put a man on Messi or it was hard. so we just played the way that we would we'd played in the Champions League and we played really well but it was a different level that team it was a different level it was I remember in the change room after sitting there and just like going like what the what was that like at Wembley even on the pitch I remember me you and Scolese were stood together I think and we had our hands over our mouth going like just get us it's just the embarrassment it felt so embarrassing and I was thinking all my mates are going to be saying like wow you just got pumped in that final and And that's here to stay.

10:55Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like I said, we had to play the perfect game. And they had to have a slight off day, which, you know, the bigger the occasion, he just doesn't do, which is a sign of another great player. And it was tough. It was tough. Lionel Messi has given us some great moments throughout his career from when he burst on the scene, his first goal assisted by Ronaldinho to his last moments where he lit up the World Cup as a more senior player, but he'll go down as the greatest, for one of the greatest or the greatest players, depending on what side of the coin you're sitting on. But a talent that just broke my heart, broke your heart at times, and broke many others along the way.

11:38But what a player, man. So, yeah, listen, guys, there's going to be plenty more to come from myself and Ryan Giggs. The detail that you're getting from Ryan, especially in these moments, I think are music to my eyes. I'm sure they are to yours. So I'll catch you on the next one. See you soon, guys.

12:18analysis three times a week wherever you get your podcasts. Barry, with the remaining 10 seconds of this advert, can you provide some astute analysis? I think Arsenal are going to win the Premier League. And there you are. For more hot takes like that, watch or listen to Football Weekly wherever you get your podcasts.