Help People Buy: Tony Morris's Playbook for Breaking Buyer Resistance

0:01This is the Sales Gravy Podcast. Hi, I'm Jeb Blount, bestselling author, fanatical prospecting, objections, sales EQ, and inked. And I'm here to help you open more doors, close bigger deals, and rock your commission check. Welcome to the Sales Gravy Podcast. I'm Jeb Blount, Jr., your host. And today, we've got the man with a plan. We got Mr. Tony Morris, international national sales speaker, world-renowned speaker, influence, persuasion, sales tactics, prospecting. He has an incredible catalog of content on Sales Gravy University. He is an amazing author, and he runs Tony Morris International, and he has a son who is running the world now and getting his own speaking gigs.

0:43And speaking of speaking gigs, the reason we have Tony Morris on the podcast is because he is going to be joining us on the stage at Outbound Conference this November, November 9th through the 12th. Go to outboundconference.com to go get your tickets right now. Tony, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much. Pleasure to be here. Really excited. I am excited for you to be on the stage because our theme this year is Breaking Through Buyer Resistance. You have so much knowledge, wisdom, and content that spans all of those key fundamental skills of sales from opening doors, and you've got some really funny stories there, to closing deals, and all kinds of different ways that you have been able to help customers.

1:20When you think of breaking through buyer resistance, what's coming to mind as people head into Q4 and going into outbound conference this year? Yeah. So breaking buyer resistance, right? Why is there resistance? What I always think about sales is the top producers like yourself, like your father, and many, many other experts out there is they actually don't sell. They help people buy. And I think typically the resistance comes up the wall defensiveness is because they feel they're being pitched to and I call it commission breath. So for me to avoid commission breath is actually about, I call it the ABC of sales and it's no longer about always be closing.

1:56I think it's about always be curious and curiosity creates opportunity. And I think that's down to some killer questions that people ask and obviously the ability to actively listen. And what I'm going to be talking about outbound is I call it say less, win more. And going back to the greatest minds they actually don't speak that much they stick to the 1820 rule but their questioning is outstanding it's tested it's rehearsed and then i think for me going to the last quarter they can really ask really good questions and really listen and really create other opportunities to serve and add value they can have the best quarter ever that's what i believe I really like the say less, win more mantra.

2:45And it's really difficult to bring that idea back down to earth for a lot of sellers. I mean, it's a nice thing to say. People understand as an abstract idea, you should talk less and listen more. We've been taught that since we were children. What are you seeing in your work with your clients and with salespeople who are even prospecting to you? What allows them to unlock that meta skill with maybe some practical tips that you might bring to the stage at Outbound? There's two or three strategies and salespeople struggle, right? Because as you said, touristy, we like to speak. We get in the sales, we like to talk, we love to sound our own voice.

3:17What I teach people, number one is when you ask a great question, start drinking water straight after because then you can't speak, you're going to choke. So that's the first thing, it's quite nice. The second thing is to actually test yourself on that call, to be able to come off the phone call and say, right, how much did I generally get in my discovery? If not enough, why? And with the beauty of AI, I have something called Pocket. It's a magnetic on the back of my phone. So I'm using that on my clients now, where we can actually transcribe their call and look at speaking time and look at types of questions asked, open versus closed, and the type of questions, and really to be able to codify what they're doing on our call and what's working, what isn't.

3:59But I think it's really about the better the question you ask, you're going to create, provoke better conversation. And therefore, by doing that, you're not going to have a chance to speak. then we can pick up little cues and keywords that our prospects are using that we can inundate back to them, right? Normally then matching during that conversation. That's a really interesting way to help yourself avoid over speaking. And I look at sales calls all the time, like Tony does. And if you go to Gong or you go to any, you know, recording system, you'll notice that most sales reps are hovering between that 55 % to like, you know, 72 % talk time ratio, which is better than And it used to be, it used to be like 90%.

4:39It's shocking how many people are using their time by talking rather than asking. I want to go back to breaking through buyer resistance as the theme. Like you talk about this meta skill. Why does this reduce buyer resistance? Why does this unlock the efficiency in the economy of sales conversations for ultra high performers? The truth is, and this is longstanding from psychologists, that people love to talk about themselves, themselves, their businesses, their challenges, how to mitigate risk, whatever it might be. And if as a salesperson, as an expert, if I can not only get across my expertise as a thought leader to the time I am speaking, sharing absolute value, that could be challenging the person I'm speaking to, but backing it up with some great evidence.

5:21We know the challenge of sale, you know, worked, was very successful. So therefore, when I'm speaking, the value is what I'm bringing to the table. But I used to think, as well as being able to challenge people with confidence and substantiate why, I think the more they speak, the more they're going to share. And the more they share, we can utilize when we're doing our pitch or our recommendation. But ultimately, by asking different types of questions, different types of pain questions, that we're going to unfold so many other areas in that business that we can probably solve. And I look at everything in sales that we're not selling, we're helping them buy.

5:57And my job is what solutions have I got to help serve my clients better to perform for them more effectively? Once I can demonstrate genuine transparency, authenticity, I'm only there to help not selling on a problem solver. I believe resistance will go down. And then I hope and believe that it will instill confidence in them that we are the right people to help. and we got testimonials to back it up and we got a clear evidence of ROI, whatever it might be that you're selling. And I believe that starts to bring the wall down and starts to reduce that resistance. I think that years and years of sales study and reading the books that even you have written and Jeb has written and all of the speakers at Outbound have put into words for B2B sellers to go and learn from would back all of that up.

6:48I want to ask you a question about where you think it's most important for salespeople. We've got ultra high performers coming to Outbound. There's a place where companies send their top salespeople to learn because of how powerful the lessons are. And some of those lessons are how can we open up more doors and get more opportunities. But a lot of ultra high performers are really good at building their pipeline, but sometimes they struggle with advancing it. So where does this meta skill start to become more important for you as you look at an ultra high performing salesperson? Yeah, great point.

7:18So it's about touch points, right? I'm a big believer that every month you don't have contact with a customer, you're probably losing 5 cent of that relationship. But we don't just want to be calling them during sales cycle or checking in. We want to be able to give value at every point. I believe we need one nugget of information about every time, be it on a personal level, on a business level. And I'm always looking to give something of value. So as an example, I've chatted to a big tier one bank recently. We're doing a huge 250 grand project. And we're just talking about books. And I mentioned the one thing is time management's an issue for him.

7:54And he said, I've never heard of it. Never read it. I was like, that's a great book. I put the phone down. I went straight to Amazon and ordered him the one thing. It cost me£10. I know the value that's going to give of Tony listened to me. Tony's gone out of his way and ordered me a book. I didn't ask for it. Those little touch points. I listened to a good webinar. I send them a link. I read a good article. I send them a link. anything I can do that I see that's going to serve them about things and not about me at all. It's about their customers who they're serving and maybe some things in the market they might be unaware of, some market insights.

8:29I want to be sharing that continuously through the cycle and touching all the stakeholders so that they know they're front of mind. And I'm simply to keep adding value and there to obviously facilitate that entire buying process. And you are coming to Outbound with a lot of this knowledge. You're packaging it up in your program and you're going to be on the stage. But you're also going to be on the floor around hanging out with people, learning from them. You're shaking hands and eating lunch next to people and drinking coffee. Coffee's only for closers though, right, Tony? I don't know where you brought that line from, but 100%.

9:00People are going to be able to actually get into conversation with you and talk about their situations and learn things. What is one aha moment that you want people to get from any interaction with you when it relates to your sales knowledge, wisdom, and what you kind of bring to the table? What do you want people to go? Yeah, you know what? That guy, Tony, gave me this advice and it's incredible. During any workshop talk, I try and get at least two or three aha moments. A good example is I did a gig from Spain and it was to a medical or pharma company, pharma primidus. And I was trying to get across about what they actually sell.

9:33And I use this example that I thought for then it was a moment. And it's this. You don't go to a hardware store to buy a six-inch grill. You go to a hardware store to buy a six-inch hull. It's not the product service you're selling. You're selling the after effect, the results of what we do. And what I got the sales people to understand is they're looking at their product service and thinking so much about how they pitch their point of difference or their USPs. But actually, it's not about that. It's about truly understanding customers' problems and what the result is by implementing what we do.

10:10People don't book me because I'm a speaker. They book me to increase conversion rates, to increase their average deal size, to reduce cost per lead. Speaking happens to be the platform I use to do so. So I think, you know, I'm going to be there all week. And I want people to come up to me with their biggest problem, their biggest challenge, or their biggest, I guess, objective. Something they're looking to achieve but aren't right now. and just pick my brains, you know? I'm there to help. I've got 26 years of experience, so anything I can share and help with, and hopefully there'll be some hormones in that.

10:42But I'm there to learn, right? There's some unbelievable speakers, and I'm so blessed to be on the stage, but learn from them. We learn from everybody. If they're 18 years old, they're brand new to sales, I'm going to pick things up. They have a different perspective, you know? So I'm really excited for that as well. I want to kind of harness that excitement really quickly. before and now you're coming back why do you think outbound is the place that's just so special for you to keep coming back to you're flying all the way from london why are you coming back to outbound if i've spoken no exaggeration at about thousand kickoffs in 20 years as a speaker and i can honestly hand on heart say i'll put outbound in the top five and i think the reason for that is it's not just you come away motivated and excited right you actually come away with a practical toolkit that you could implement the day after the event and see results and i know when i came to about now to speak two years ago now i think i took about half a book of notes and i've been doing this a long time you never ever stop learning and there were just different perspectives on things and insights i love that it's a practical conference rather than just theoretical or inspirational, you get that as well.

11:55You get things that are absolutely spot on relevant, applicable in the world of styles you're in. And there's some of the world best speakers I've ever been lucky enough to work with. I cannot wait for you to be there. Going into a follow-up call, I want every important note right at my fingertips, not buried somewhere in a scribbled stack of notes. And with Plod Notepin S, I always have them because it's a wearable, portable note taker that lets me stay present and focused on customers during every single meeting. Plod captures the conversation and turns it into organized summaries and action items so I can follow up faster.

12:28And if I need a specific detail, Plod's recall has that ready for me. And that's why Jeb Sr. and I and all of Sales Gravy trust our Plod Notepen S. Try Plod and stay focused on the conversation while it handles all of your notes. Go to plod.ai forward slash Jeb. That's plod.ai forward slash Jeb and use code JEB to get 10 % off your purchase. I want to do some lightning round questions, just some fun stuff. What you think an attendee should pack besides a notebook if they're coming to Outbound? Yeah, so I've just bought a pocket. It sticks on your phone, magnifies your phone and then records your phone calls and transcribes.

13:04But I'll be bringing the pocket myself. So if I miss anything, so I can record it and obviously that's a great summary. I put it through Lord or Chatting Tea. So that's an instant. I'd be doing that. I think I would be trying to find out other companies that are coming, trying to see who I want to connect with when I'm out there, looking at their LinkedIn profile. So yes, I want to help serve them as well. But equally, who can I get introduced to? If you are an attendee and you haven't found a pocket or another system to record your conversations, like huge, huge, huge, huge tip. And then as we go to outbound, you'll connect with people.

13:41There are going to be people who are announcing their tickets on LinkedIn. Get connected with our groups. They are going to help you get introduced to some fun folks that you're going to be able to learn from, connect with, and maybe ultimately build partnerships with as well. I want you to complete this sentence for me, okay? You belong at Outbound if you're tired of... Getting rejected. What does tired of getting rejected look like, Tony? People get down and negative if they keep getting put down on them or just getting blocked by other gatekeepers or blocked by influencers to get to sort of theme stakeholders.

14:11And they take it very personally. And actually, for me, Nelson Mandela said this. He said, you never lose. He said, you win and you learn. And my advice to any salesperson is you see it as rejection, but actually it's the most incredible lessons and insights to help grow and develop. And I'm always thinking of where's the lesson from this? What questions am I not asking? What rebuttals should I be using? And desperate to glean that information. So for me, actually, I want to leave out there and say rejection doesn't exist. I look at it as it's a story of learning and I can't wait to learn more and grow.

14:46Tony, what are you fanatical about? I'm genuinely fanatical about helping people. And I know that might sound cheesy, but there is nothing for me from a business perspective, anything more exciting. Someone say, you turn my career around. I was the worst performer and it's taken me two years. I'm now sales director and I'm smashing figures every single month. For me, that is the best thing. and in terms of on a personal basis, it's just spending time with the family but doing the things they love. My son loves go-karting. We're going to do go-karting in Vegas. We've already done it. We're going to go again on the great track.

15:23Can't wait to do that. And the F1 is also going to be there. I might. It's half their outbound, but if I can, I want to get tickets to that as well. You're going to sell me on it as well. I don't know if I'm up for that quite yet, but we love F1. Okay, what is your pump-up song before you get into prospecting or you go out on a keynote stage? What are you listening to if you were going to listen to something before you go out there? Lose Yourself, Eminem. I love it. It just gets me every time in the B and Rage Against the Sheep. Those two definitely get me in the mood. Bulls on Parade gets me in a weird space that I'm going to go win.

15:56You know, what's interesting, Tony, is that Ashley, my wife, she listens to Eminem, that song, right before she goes out and skates in a competition. What is the best advice you've ever gotten from another outbound speaker? Victor Antoni and I were speaking. And he did this sort of stance on stage where he went really long and had his hand out. And I said, I've seen that before and I can't remember where. And he said Zig Ziglar was famous for it. And I was like, that's it. And he said it took him hours upon hours to perfect just that movement on stage. And it made me realize the amount of work that goes into it.

16:33And it was a real reminder for myself of we'd have to perfect reprafts. You're making a prospect and full. Don't just pick up the phone without any research. Practice with your colleagues. Get it ready so that you have that opportunity to smash it. So for me, that's my big thing of when I speak to the speaker, of what things are they doing that are not. So I want to model myself in the best, and they do things I'm definitely not, vice versa. That's why I'm always looking at SuperO. He's the best speaker I think I have personally seen. He's so good at it, and he's going to be on the stage with us.

17:07he's got this perfected hand motion in the middle of his keynote and i'm trying to remember what i'm supposed to be talking about on that though he has his style one thing i i learned years years ago as a speaker is never try to copy someone's style and it really was a wake-up call the best speaker i've ever seen this guy called jeff ran from the uk he's a marketing speaker he is sublime 10 out of 10 and i used to want to be like him and copy everything he did and it just wasn't authentic so I started to learn bits of what he did and managed to bring that into my style my way but I think that was a massive error early is we can watch it but take little bits of gold and see if we can bring that into our way our manner and I think that's true for folks if you're listening to this you're like okay how does this apply to what I'm doing in my day I train people on fanatical prospecting and making cold calls every single day and the people who try and copy my style have a harder time than those that just have their own thing and they do it a different way than me, but they have the same similar framework.

18:09They get the idea of it, but they make it their own. It makes it a lot more natural. When you try and copy anybody else, and I've done it myself, it doesn't work as well as you think it would. And it ultimately leaves you less confident. Go perfect your craft. What is your sales spirit animal, Tony? Probably a monkey. And I say that because I used to have a coach called Nigel Risner. He wrote a book called this zoo around here and when he talked about behavior profiles and I was out and out of monkey and didn't realize why and what that meant. I love it. You're going to come for the entire week.

18:38You're going to be there for a VIP event, which is going to be a bowling event. Who are you going to challenge to a match at the outbound VIP bowling event? It's got to be you, right? I hear you have an appearance when no one has, and I've been practicing for the last six months. So you and all, I could have a bowling showdown. There's a couple of ringers that are coming and I haven't told anybody who they are. So we're going to see who it is. And it ain't me. Tony, I really appreciate your time here today and talking about Outbound Conference and what you're bringing to the table and spending some time with us today.

19:08If you were going to get one ticket to Outbound, you're coming for the main event dates, for the leadership day, for if you're going to get the VIP, what would you recommend people invest in themselves when it comes to Outbound? It's a real tough one, right? I think you've got to look at where you are in your career, where you are, where the gaps are, but also where you want to be. And I think they've got to be there for the four days, in my opinion. They're going to miss so much gold if they're not. You know, you want to genuinely invest in yourself to be the best you can ever be. You've got to be there for the four days.

19:36It's going to be too difficult to choose. So I genuinely feel it takes this four days to work on yourself, not within your role. And I think I know what's flying. I'm going to leave it at that. Tony, thank you so much for your time. Go get your outbound tickets at outboundconference.com. It is a fantastic place to be if you're an ultra high performer or you want to be an ultra high performer. Another place to go find other people who are reaching the peak of their sales careers and learning from the best. Go to outboundconference.com and get those tickets. Tony, we'll see you on the stage there and we'll catch you next time on the Sales Gravy Podcast.

20:07Cheers. Thanks for having me.

20:21Thank you.