Maor Sason: Cofounder and CEO at Appcharge on how they're taking on Apple and Google!

0:00Maor Sason:Hello and welcome back to the Scaling Europe show. I'm Seb Johnson. I'm here with Maor of AppCharge. Welcome very much. Thank you for joining me. Thank you for having me, Seb. Super excited to be here. No, no. I'm thrilled to get the opportunity. I know we tried to catch up with Slush, but things didn't quite work out. For those who aren't familiar with AppCharge, can you give like a quick introduction to what you've built? Yeah, of course. So AppCharge, we are redefining the App Store economics. Probably most of you have heard of the 2020 trial of Epic Games versus Apple. Very dramatic. As you guys probably know, Apple and Google are charging 30 % for mobile game developers.

0:43So basically what AppCharge does is we build the D2C strategy suite to monetize directly the mobile consumers for mobile developers. Essentially, Shopify for mobile games.

0:59Maor Sason:Amazing. And I guess, what was the thinking or rationale behind doing this? Can you touch a bit on the existing model, the incumbents, and why it's such an issue? Yeah, of course. So back then when we started, D2C was not on the day-to-day hallway talk. There were very few companies who was done it. The first ones were Platica. Actually, a friend of mine, Oan, was the one who came with the IDM Platica, currently chief of staff of Platica. But most developers were a bit timid to do so, to bypass the App Store in a legit compliant way. but still, you know, the whole income is dependent on it. And Roy and myself, we both come from a mobile game background.

1:49That's the strength of the AppCharge team. And we've been friends for over 10 years. And I guess after the Epic Games ignited and started to heat off, I started to look at the opportunity after selling the previous startup named a push which was a buying and selling traffic for mobile game developers and all he was just working on the project from one active the direct-to-consumer and it was it was pretty serendipitous we sat down we immediately we immediately realized there is there is a big gap in the market and there is a problem to serve and here we go that's how after it started current incumbents depends if you're looking at a web store incumbents there there are a couple when you're looking at a more traditional PSPs you're looking at stripes and the ad ends of the

2:46Maor Sason:world yeah interesting and I assume that you've just published a report that's analyzing the top 200 game publishers and I think the headline from the report is that it's estimated to 41 million dollars per day is being wasted by the publishers can you touch on kind of like what that figure means so the 30 we were talking about uh that's the apple take rate and when you deduct the actual number they're they're supposed to charge more or less this is the numbers for the top 200 developers So as you probably know, mobile games, it's massive. This year, it's$100 billion in IAP spending, just mobile games.

3:35By the end of the decade, it's going to be$200 billion. So when you do the math for the top 200, that's the figure daily. Pretty crazy, huh?

3:45Maor Sason:That's absolutely crazy. I mean, what is that over a year? Is that like$15 billion? Is that right? Something like that? That's crazy. And so, you know, you're looking to disrupt what is fundamentally like a huge part of the business models of these app stores. What's your relationship been like with, I don't know, people like Apple or Google? Has there been pushback? How are you able to sort of navigate that relationship?

4:11Yeah, well, it's quite a complex relationship. So first of all, personally, I'm a Steve Jobs fan. You know, I read the biography and everything. I love Apple. I have an iPhone. So it's a it's a kind of a dissonance, right? When we are interviewing people to App Charge, we presented them the 1984 Super Bowl commercial. Are you familiar with that?

4:38Maor Sason:No, I don't think so. No. Yeah, I can show you later or we can pop it up. And so we're showing like how Apple was like the small innovative player and they were like kind of trashing IBM on this commercial. And what Epic Games did, they had a remake for the ad. And they did like all over the 1984 commercial with the Epic Unreal Engine. It's pretty sick.

5:17but respecting the platforms, we're a part of the game. Clearly, we're no match for Apple and Google. We're very dependent on how the regulation is going to unfold. So we're respectful, and I could even tell you that there is a high chance they recommend us in the back scene because they don't want a Wild West. They want a partner that's going to support their clients on the best way possible, on a compliant way, on a professional way. So I think we are kind of a necessity for this ecosystem as well.

5:50Maor Sason:Do you think that they could ever go kind of D2C themselves? No, no, no. That's no, no. Like meaning D2C themselves, it means they're going to lower the fees and they have the exact incentive. So for example, they would rather to charge a very high percentage 30 % of or 25 % rather to give everyone 10 % right on the relationship but they they're always going to aim to take as much as they can. Yeah, interesting. I guess that you're right. Those are the key. That's what they're incentivized to do which always puts them in sort of like the classic innovation innovators dilemma, I guess. and touching back on this report, you know, like what motivated you to kind of publish this?

6:40Maor Sason:I guess this is a bit like a bit of thought leadership. It's, you know, not always that the usual path for a lot of like reasonably early stage companies. Like, why did you want to do this? Why did you think it was important? We feel like we're like the missionaries of direct-to-consumer. So we want it to be out there. We want everybody to know what's up. We want to create FOMO for the ones who are behind. We want to give credit to the industry. We just want it to be in the awareness. So that's the incentive. And clearly thought leadership, once direct-to-consumer, is high on the tip of the sphere.

7:17So does AppCharge. So yeah, I think that's the motivation.

7:21Maor Sason:Yeah, got it. Nice. I always wanted to touch on your fundraise last year. So I think you raised, I think it was like a$58 million Series B, I think led by IVP. that's a big round, a big Series B. Yeah, let's go. Can you touch on - Tudos Ivy G. I know you've had a chat with Eric. Yes. Yeah, I chatted with Eric at Slush. Yeah, he was great. I mean, he seems like an amazing investor. What kind of, what gave them the conviction to invest in App Charge? good question so I think first of all I want to give credit to our seed money investors play ventures Finland Singapore and glee lot and following the a round cre and them the US office but uh sweet uh their swedes very big as well thank you carl supercell smile gate bitcraft also a part of the a round and most recently ivp alongside with the playrix so thank you guys um i first and foremost tam total addressable market uh that's what investors look at the most i think that's uh um i think it's also warren buffett saying but market market market there is a new market opening up and inevitably somebody's gonna cater it so I think the the regulation and the perception of game developers against the platform and what they can do why what they cannot do and strategy shift so this is this is first and secondly I think it's the team the app charge team the human capital we have here in App Charge, it's just the perfect composition to tackle this mission.

9:19Israel is one of the top mobile game developers hubs in the world. And we're bringing this talent and accumulative knowledge into our product and we're making it available for all studios out there. So I think that's what made them invest.

9:40Maor Sason:And you mentioned Criandum, I know they live the Series A, obviously that very big european firm ivp very big american firm was that intentional did you want to go out to the us to raise your series b to kind of get some us investors on board or was it more just that it's it's it's easier at that stage you know once you kind of hit that kind of breakout stage it's easier to raise money from american capital what was the thinking and i guess why On the flip side, why were IVP attractive to you? So IVP, really, one of the top firms in Silicon Valley, they've done some of the best gaming investments out there.

10:19This is why it was so appealing to us. They've invested in Niantic and Dream Games and Zynga, if I'm not mistaking. uh so this is one and just just a small portion of their portfolio so this was very appealing to us especially on the on the beer on the growth round and uh by the way you are right you're like straight to the point when we first raised also play ventures are not israeli we didn't have glilo that are israeli uh and around but play play let it and we we wanted to expand the network um so this this is was was the the initial thought of like having um um funds that are out of our circle that can uh and it really did help like the the connections that we're making because we're we're having different funds from across the world has been really really

11:15Maor Sason:helpful and rewarding amazing so they've already been good value-added investors oh yeah yeah hi hi ROI. That's great to hear. And I think ROI on the investment. Yeah, ROI squared. How have you been deploying that capital? You know, it was nearly$60 million. It was halfway through last year. What have you been spending that money on? Is it product development, international expansion? Yeah. How have you been deploying it? Most of the capital is payroll. It's mostly R &D product development. So we're yeah in our stage that's where most of the capital is going to or expanding we're a hundred and forty employees I would say like a hundred in Israel most of the product R &D team are here in Israel but go-to-market support integration engineers we have all over eight locations across the world but most most of the money is going it's going to human capital nice and then what do you need to achieve or unlock to to get to that next round of funding

12:31good question maintaining the growth we have a we have we've had an 8x year-over-year growth so maintaining I wouldn't say 8x because it's probably impossible and where we are at now so this is a and I think be

12:58keep keep pushing our suite of products not to be dependent on one product and I think for later rounds not for for the next round for the round after um um going after another segment in the market uh pc games are relevant consumer apps are relevant maybe maybe even e-commerce are

13:20Maor Sason:irrelevant for the future uh interesting so nail this vertical and then potentially expand um you mentioned 8x growth that's like a phenomenal result uh can you touch on what What are the key things that you think looking back unlocked that level of growth for you? The stars definitely aligned. It was, so first year we haven't even launched. We raised money in December 22 and took us almost a year to launch the product. And we were building relationships before the product was out in the market. it so laying the foundations in an early stage and then when it comes to this melting point where where you know that everybody's going to want it and to be kind of ready because you're never like fully ready and and cater these these big clients and our strategy was was top bottom like build the best product possible for the toughest clients with the most demands and then you'll be able to serve everyone else and I think this is what we did and we and we are serving some of the top like studios in the market out there and that's what enabled the growth the growth amazing and you know top priority for 2026 is there anything that you think okay we absolutely have to have to achieve this thing and maybe it's a certain feature or bit of product that you're really desperate to get out maybe it's i don't know unlocking something else but like is there something where you think okay this is what we really need to focus on definitely so there is there is another uh upcoming regulation change kind of a reverse change that's coming at the end of the month and um we're not sure how it's going to look like so we need to be attentive of uh how the regulation is going to unfold and to act upon it distribution will be uh more difficult this year and there are many features that App Charge has or planning that we will need to work along with our current clients and our future clients to deploy it.

15:35And just to connect the users to the developers and not being dependent on the internal app communication. So have multiple channels of communication with the users, especially with the paying users.

15:50Maor Sason:Nice. Okay, it's interesting. There's lots of exciting things going on then. I also wanted to touch on Israel and the wider Israeli tech ecosystem. In Europe, it feels like there's a lot of excitement. I think people are expecting 2026 to be even bigger than 2025 was. We're already starting to see big funding rounds now. People are already seeing a couple of acquisitions in the first couple of weeks of 2026. What's it like building in Israel at the moment? so it hasn't been easy you know with uh um with the latest but we're not we're not going to get into our we're just we're just trying to do our best working hard focusing on the business but uh if you're strictly looking at uh um uh from from a business angle as an investor or as entrepreneur especially in our space Israel has been really good to us we don't have any mobile games developed sorry triple-a games developed here in Israel probably like zero I've never heard about successful triple-a here in Israel not in the recent decade or two but we have multiple mobile mobile game unicorns or mobile technology unicorns such as play tica and moon active and super play kudos to gila daniel for the for the sale and apps flyer and candy for uh ilia and plarium so uh we have multiple uh uh i would say even more than 10 uh mobile unicorns and this this ratio is i think probably the highest in the world for mobile unicorns per capita it's an yeah it's a and it's an interesting data point and that leads to many talented valuable people and a lot of knowledge that you can use and you can raise to your company so that I think was the most helpful in terms of like an environmental aid it was super fruitful and by the way you have also other top studios in the world just opening like HQ zero in Israel to use this knowledge like scoping in like side play so that's that's on that yeah I know I mean yeah I think you kind of mentioned it but like Israel is renowned for being one of the most innovation dense areas in the world when it comes to tech I mean the country really punches above its weight in terms of the the level of like uh yeah extraordinary tech that comes out of there um look we've only got a couple minutes left i also wanted to talk about your your broader entrepreneurial experience you know as you mentioned this is not the first time that you've built a business let alone build a business in this space what are you doing differently from the last time around where maybe you had to learn some lessons the hard way or maybe you learned some shortcuts or some tips and tricks what have you learned from your prior entrepreneurial journey that now you're applying as you build App Charge into a huge global business?

18:55So I'm still a student, always learning. Currently audio-building No Rules Rule of Reed Hastings, by the way, about Netflix culture. But I've learned so much from the previous startup, But it's not anywhere near of what I'm learning every day. At AppCharge as we grow, because the previous company was like at the top of the headcount was 24 people. Now we're 140. And I think I've learned to just realize that it's a marathon. You know, it's not a sprint. You need to every day is a new day. Just work hard. Be attentive to what people say. be human and collaborate with people. And I think that's the most important.

19:52And be patient. And when you feel the wind blowing up your back, just run fast. And I think that's what we've done in App Charge. And never take a no for an answer. I know it's kind of cliche. Everybody's saying it, but that's what I feel.

20:06Maor Sason:Yeah, I think it's true, right? You just got to keep banging on the door. Well, look, Merle, thank you so much for joining me. I love chatting. I'm going to be watching your success from the sidelines. And let me know if there's anything I can do to help you in your journey. Seb, thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it, man. My pleasure.