Kim Perell | She Borrowed $10K From Grandma… Then Built a $235M Company

0:00Have you started how many businesses by now? Nine. You've invested in how many? 150. And you sold your biggest company for?

0:06Kim Perell: $20.35 million. Kim Perell. You're a busy person. Busy. Readiness will never come. Do you think most people shouldn't be entrepreneurs, or what's your thought on that? My law is anything can't go wrong, will go wrong, worse than you thought at the worst possible time, which is totally true in any business. But you have to be willing to do whatever it takes. If it's not fun, or you don't think of it like that, you will not be successful. If somebody came to you, Kim, and was just like, hey, could you invest in my company? What would your advice be for them? Oh, I'm going to tell you. So for me, it's trying to find a...

0:33Kim Perell: I'm always looking for a... You are a mom. How many kids do you have? I have four. Four kids. Four kids. Being a mom with four kids is like running a company. That sounds crazy, but it is. What would you say is the biggest thing you're teaching your kids about money that you weren't taught growing up? I think number one is great. Yeah, it goes back to the... It really does, guys. I can't stress enough. So Kim, if all of us sitting here were to die tomorrow and you could be one last message with the younger generation, what would that be? It's a big one. I really want to like leave something really important.

1:00Kim Perell: My message would be that.

1:04What's going on, everyone? Welcome back to the School of Hard Knocks podcast. I'm James. I'm here with Jack and Josh, and we are out in Miami, Florida with an incredible guest for you all today. Kim Perel, who have you started how many businesses by now?

1:17Kim Perell: Nine. You've invested in how many? 150. And you sold your biggest company for over$200 million. $235 million. $235 million. But where I want to get started today is, you know, a lot of people may see, you know, the$235 million exit, but you started that business with a$10 ,000 loan from your grandma. So how does somebody turn a$10 ,000 loan into a$235 million exit? A lot of hustle, a lot of hustle, and a lot of hard work. I think you look at how hard it is to build companies, and it is hard, but it's not impossible. And I think for me, I started my first company right after the internet.com bubble burst.

1:56Kim Perell: and everyone said the internet was over. It was a fad. It's never going to be big, get a real job. And I just believed, I believed it was going to be big and no one would give me a loan. No one would bet on me. They told me I was crazy, which is what every entrepreneur hears. But the one person that made a bet on me was my 80 year old grandma. And so I called her and asked for a loan. And she said, what is the internet? And it didn't matter. And she made that bet on me and she believed in me. And I took the, I took the 10 ,000 bucks and that's when I got a computer, started my kitchen table. Everyone's got a kitchen table.

2:32Kim Perell: And then I just got to work. And I think looking back, I was spending 16 to 18 hour days at my kitchen table. So now my life looks completely different, but in order to be truly successful, you will have to sacrifice. and I was young, so that helps. Right. What did your grandma see in you that nobody else saw? She believed in me. I think it just takes one person to believe in you. And think back to when you're in school and you have that one teacher that actually believes in you. It makes such a difference in your life because sometimes it's hard for you to be confident in yourself, but having that one person believe in you gives you the confidence to be confident in yourself and to show up.

3:17Kim Perell: and she did that for me and what a gift and that's why I've invested in so many companies because I want to pay it forward I want to be that person that makes that investment and sees that come to fruition. Kim what was that first company that like you went all in on uh just for the audience like what what was that first company that you grew and you grew and scaled and uh just for everybody that's watching? Yeah internet marketing so before there we had billboards and the yellow pages. I mean, I was truly trying to convince you not to advertise in the yellow pages, which is so long ago, and to advertise online.

3:52Kim Perell: It was a hard sell back then. And looking back, people just didn't trust that internet advertising was going to be a thing. And I believed, obviously, it would be. There was no Facebook or Instagram. I mean, nothing existed back then. It was Yahoo.com and Google. And so it was a lot of search and a lot of sponsorships. But honestly, it was an incredible opportunity to pioneer an industry that is so big today. I'm curious for you because you're pioneering an industry and this is the first business that you've ever started. How did you go about getting your first couple of customers? What were those conversations like?

4:31Well, the

4:32Kim Perell: good news is, and I think it goes back to a red thread in my career, is I had previously worked at an internet company and they had raised$120 million. It was a Dropbox before Dropbox. Cloud computing at that time was too expensive. They ended up going bankrupt. I got fired. And I had made great relationships at the time. And so I was able to take those relationships to my new company and call them up and they trusted me. And that made a huge difference. So I think knowing that you never know who you're going to meet, who's going to make an impact in your business. And that's still true today is who do you meet along the way that really can continue to help support you as you grow.

5:16And you're probably one of the biggest advocates for getting mentors around you. I know that you talk about even to this day, right? You still have a lot of mentors.

5:23Kim Perell: I have so many mentors. I mean, 93 % of self-made millionaires have mentors. And if you think about it, Mark Zuckerberg had Steve Jobs, right? And Buffett. There's so many individuals that had amazing mentors. I have so many mentors in every single one of my businesses. So my beverage business, I have a mentor. My beauty business, I have a mentor. In my AI business, I have a mentor. Predictive intelligence business, I have a mentor. Every single one. I'm always looking for someone smarter than myself who's been there, who's done that, and who I can learn from. I love that you said that you have a mentor for each type of business that you have because you could get advice from a hundred different people on a hundred different things.

6:00But if like you don't get the right like advice from the right person on that particular thing like for us like we have a media company and so on the way up scaling this media company like we've gotten advice from hundreds of different people on what to do but if like if you're trying to take advice on how to grow a media company from like someone that's not a media entrepreneur like you could be making mistakes so i i like to hear that speaking of mistakes like what were some of those mistakes that you made early on as you were scaling your company yeah for me looking back i mean so i made

6:28Kim Perell: so many mistakes. I wrote a book on mistakes that made me millions of dollars because looking back, I did make so many. I think people need to share the challenges that they have because how else can we learn from them in terms of mentorship? So the biggest mistake that I made was waiting. I think so many people out there have great ideas and they're waiting to feel ready. Readiness will never come. So you have to have the courage to start. And usually I go by the 70 % rule, which is if you have 70 % enough information to take action, you should go and figure the rest out along the way. But don't sit there and wait because you will be waiting the rest of your life and you will look back and you will regret it.

7:09Josh, what's the golden rule? Sell it first, figure it out. Sell it first and figure it out.

7:13Kim Perell: I like that. Yes. Agreed. Sell it out and figure it out later. Say yes, right? Yes. It's like so many people, they just, oh, I got to get my website all perfect. And I, you know, I got to go get some merch for my company that I just started. It's just like, make money. Yes. Oh my gosh. And perfectionism is a trap. I'm a perfectionist at heart. And I get stuck like so many other people and analysis paralysis and thinking, should I, can I, and then you start doubting yourself. But until you get to market, you just don't know. So I totally agree. Let's just sell it, figure it out along the way. So Kim, obviously you've invested in over 150 companies.

7:53And so I kind of want to, there's like a three-stage question that I want to ask you. I'm going to ask in three parts. What is the most important thing for a company to go from zero to$1 million?

8:03Kim Perell: Honestly, it's the founder. That founder is going to get you from zero to one for sure. You have to have a clear vision. The founder has to have that vision. They have to be willing to do whatever it takes in order to be successful because you're going to want to quit time and time again. And that first million is the hardest. I can remember so many companies. Once you hit the first million, it actually gets, in my opinion, easier. The first million is harder because you're trying to find product market fit. And if you don't have it, you will never hit a million bucks. I know you want to finish your question, but is there a point, right?

8:34Because you said that the first million, it gets easier, but then is there another initial stage where you think that a lot of people plateau? Like when you were scaling out to the$235 million company, was there like a plateau that you hit along the way at maybe the eight figure mark or somewhere along the lines?

8:47Kim Perell: I think it goes in 1 million, 10 million, 100 million, and then a billion. So I think because at those marks, 10 million, I think 93 % of startups have likely failed by that point. 10 million is hard too. and so probably like 99 % yeah probably so I think looking at what is how do you get to 10 and then from 10 really how do you implement systems that will help you scale to the 100 and then from 100 to a billion is really how do you get the right people on board to help you multiply that success that was my question it's like how do you then go from one to 10 yeah well One to 10 is hard too. I think that's, at one to 10, you found product market fit, or you're pretty much certain that you know that you can get out there and be successful.

9:44Kim Perell: But now it's about scaling and scaling from an entrepreneur. And I have this, like most entrepreneurs are lone wolves. They start and they don't think they need anyone. And I've been there. And then you think you can do it all yourself. And I've been there. But the reality is to go from one to 10, you need help. And whether that be in today's AI world, a mentor or a team or you need some support that can help you get to where you want to go. I know that, yeah, I want to go back to the mentors aspect, right? You've got critical mentors across all your different businesses. But I think about like that beginning entrepreneur.

10:19Like they need access to those people that are able to like pour into them and help them out. However, you and I both know like time's your most valuable asset. Like you're running how many companies now?

10:27Kim Perell: I know a lot. Well, I said on the board of six, so. Yeah, but you're a busy person. Busy. So for you to like want to pour into other people, it's like there's got to be a reason there. Like how does somebody who's trying to grow their business attach themselves to like the right successful people to kind of help, you know, to get around those mentors? I think it's number one, asking. So mentorship goes two ways. So if I was to mentor you, I actually have to want to be invested in your success because it's not a paid gig. It's actually I'm doing it because I believe I see something in you probably that I saw in myself.

11:02Kim Perell: And if I look at vertical expertise, if I've already been there, if I've already built a media company and I've scaled it, then I can confidently tell you that you can learn from my mistakes. But if I am in a totally different industry, I'm probably not the right mentor. So to your point, if you want to get fit, you're going to look for someone that is very fit. If you want to get a mentor in B2B sales or B2B SaaS, get a mentor in that vertical. If you want to get a mentor in media, I really appreciate vertical expertise because that makes such a difference. But entrepreneurship, if you look at it in a general statement, the same business principles apply.

11:41Kim Perell: I believe if I was in any industry, I would still be successful. Not because I know what I'm doing, but because I can find the right people. Your grandma believed you need more than anyone else. She gave you the first$10 ,000 to start off that business. While you're growing that business, was there ever a moment where you're like, holy shit, I might lose all the money my grandma gave me? Oh, yes. Oh, my gosh. I maxed out all my, I mean,$10 ,000 doesn't get you very far. So you have to be willing to sacrifice, right? I maxed out all my credit cards. I was eating Top Ramen, which is quite good, actually.

12:15Kim Perell: So I wasn't that bad. I'm a pig. but really you have to be willing to do whatever it takes. I mean, I didn't get paid. I didn't pay myself. You have to pay everyone else before you, which some people say you don't do. If you're the founder, that's what you do. Like everyone else eats first and then you figure out how to make sure that you're able to survive. So I think for me, it's making sure that you really have to be willing to do whatever it takes. And there's so many times that you think it's not gonna work, you know, or so you'll come into roadblocks or setbacks. And, you know, there's a great law, which is Murphy's law.

12:51Kim Perell: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. My law, having been around enough, is anything can go wrong, will go wrong, worse than you thought at the worst possible time, which is totally true in any business. So knowing how bad it's going to get, but having the confidence that you will be able to get through it anyway. I think one of the key things you just talked about there is you got to be incredibly resilient. You know, is when it rains, it pours. Like you said, when you need the problem the least is when the problems keep coming, right? Do you think entrepreneurs – I mean you've invested in 150 companies now.

13:25Do you think most people shouldn't be entrepreneurs or what's your thought on that? Oh, I think everyone can be an entrepreneur.

13:31Kim Perell: I truly do if you're willing to do what it takes. Not everyone wants to do what they do. It requires in order to be successful. I mean we were just talking. I mean, I would, when I was, you know, when I was first starting out, I would do anything. If I had to fly, and I'll still do anything. If I had to fly for a meeting at, drive somewhere at 3 a.m., wake up, do, I mean, you have to be able to do and want to do and do it with a good attitude. Not like, oh, bummer, I have to go do that. Like, you get to do this. This is fun. And if it's not fun, or you don't think of it like that, you will probably not be successful.

14:03Kim, I think what's really cool is, you know, you sit on the board of all these different companies, right? We're talking about a predictive intelligence, AI company, a beverage brand. How has your relationship with diversification changed over the years? Like, are you somebody that really embraces diversification? Because those are completely different businesses, right? So what is your philosophy on diversification?

14:22Kim Perell: Number one, I think first is focus. So when I started, I wasn't diversified. I just did 100 % all in everything I did day and night, day and night, day and night was building my company. once I sold the first time in 2008 then I could diversify so I would recommend trying to do everything is not is it impossible and so I would just focus like consistency is key discipline getting up doing the same thing over and over and over again until you make your first you know I made 20 million then it was like okay I can start investing in others I can start doing other things And that gave me the ability to do that.

15:02Kim Perell: But before that, I would not recommend diversifying your focus. Like just 100 % all in game time every day. So we're getting our first couple of opportunities to potentially invest into companies. And so obviously, being some young guys, we're trying to figure out our investing philosophy and our strategy here. And so for somebody who's invested in over 150 businesses, what do you look for specifically when you're thinking about making an investment into a company? Honestly, for me, I like to be an early stage investor. I want to be able to help. I want to be able to make connections for you. If I was to invest in you guys, I'd be looking at number one, the founders.

15:39Kim Perell: Are they willing to do whatever it takes? Number two, what's a big addressable market? Like what's your total addressable market? Number three, who's the team? And then really looking at for you guys, am I able to help you? So if I'm investing in early stage founders, I need to be able to make some really quick either introduction on raising capital introductions on strategic partnerships. I need to be able to help. I can help you hire. I'm operational so I actually know like what good candidates look like and you're going to need those. So having people that can actually help you. So if you're looking to invest in other companies, it's a two-way street.

16:15Kim Perell: You're investing because you believe in them, but how do you help them? I love that. Like, so you don't just look to give them money. Hey, take this, go off and do what you want with it. It's like you want to be able to add value to that person. And you probably won't invest in people unless you know that you actually can truly help them. Yeah, I want to help them. I want to actually be able to move the need on them, look back and go. Right now, even I have some founders calling me like, please, can we get on a call? Yes, I want to be that call. If something goes wrong, I want you to call me and I will help you because I've seen everything.

16:42Yeah, I love that. When you're looking at the companies on a more granular level, are you looking on the balance sheet? Because some of these newer companies can be all over the place sometimes. So are you looking more at the balance sheet or are you betting on the jockey and the founder themselves and be like, look, I believe in you and I want to go all in?

16:58Kim Perell: No, I'm betting on the jockey 100 % at this early stage because you're going to have to pivot. You're going to change models. You're going to change opportunities. You have to be agile. So I'm betting that you guys will be able to pull it off or whoever the entrepreneur is. 100 % jockey. I want to go back to the angel investing for a second, because you've made 150 different investments. And I'm sure that there's, you know, investments that have done incredibly well. There's also some that just haven't gone very far either. What have you noticed is like the key characteristics of like those businesses and founders that have done incredibly well versus the opposite that didn't do so well?

17:35Kim Perell: I made a great investment in a company that was at 15 million. And it went to 50 billion. and everyone said the idea had already been done. It's already, it's passed. I wouldn't bet on that. Everyone told me not to do it. But the founder had a very clear vision. And I think the people that succeed are focused, relentless, resilient, and they don't waver. And the people that don't, they aren't focused. You know, they kind of drift and, you know, they won't do whatever it takes and they'll waver, especially when things go wrong then they just give up you know and i think quitting is a decision right and so i'm looking for someone that doesn't quit and when you're looking at investments and i've done extremely well and sold so many companies but it's a founder that i'm betting on and i was just also just curious on that note is when you're doing these angel investments is there a certain amount of like percentage of the company that you're looking to necessarily acquire like is there like a parameters of like hey if i want to be coming into the business i want five percent at minimum or is there like a certain percentage or things that you're looking for like this is my non-negotiable kind of playbook for when I'm making that investment now I try to invest at least so I get 10 % yeah like I'm you want that 10 % yeah because I know I'm going to get diluted around along the way but and I know I'm going to add a ton of value so it's not I don't expect to you're not giving me the time I'm buying in my 10 % but I'd like to have a bigger stake so because I look back and the bets that really pay off, I wish I would have put a heck of a lot more money in.

19:13Yeah, definitely. It's also just like, what is it even going to be worth your time? No. With all these different things going on to just get like that little, you know, a couple of bips here and there, like on a 1 % return. Yeah, it doesn't.

19:23Kim Perell: It's like makes more sense for me to invest millions and get a significant return. Could you take us back to 2008 when you sold the company? What was that process like? Like, were you approached by people that wanted to buy your company? Or was it kind of like, you know, you got your team together and you're like, hey, let's actually approach somebody that wants to buy this thing. How did you ultimately end up selling your company? I think there's a good quote that says, you can't be what you can't see. And for me, I had never thought about selling the company. I was just building the company.

19:52Kim Perell: And then I had a friend that hired KPMG and sold his company. And I thought, you know, for millions of dollars, I was like, wait a second, you could do that. I could do that, too. So until I could see it, I didn't actually understand how to bring it to life. And so once he sold, I said, awesome. I had never literally thought about selling the company. I was just trying to make money. We're profitable. And then once that happened, then I was like, hey, can you introduce me to your banker, which was KPMG? He made the introduction. We ran a process. We got seven different offers. It's amazing what you can do if you had visibility.

20:28Kim Perell: So that's why it really is important who you're surrounding yourself with. Because if he never sold, I would never sold. A hundred percent. You can only grow to what you're exposed to. Yes. So like if you don't even know the process or how to sell a company, it's like, you know, I'm curious though, how big was the company at the time in terms of total revenue when you did sell? When we sold, we were doing probably 16 million. 16? And we grew it to 100. And the last company we grew to a billion. Wow. So you got a good revenue multiple on that then. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Is there anything specifically that you think that founders should do to increase the likelihood of their revenue multiples when they are trying to sell their company?

21:05Kim Perell: Yeah, predictability. I think as an investor, I'm looking at what's a predictable revenue stream that I can count on. I hate and diversification. I don't want you to come to me and say you're going to go out and sell and you have customer concentration of 52 % goes to one customer. Well, that's very scary as a buyer. I want to know that you have a very diversified mix of revenue because I can't count that if I sell to you and what that customer leaves, we're in trouble, right? When you say like a diversified mix of revenue, what do you mean by that? So say you have a media company and you have sponsorships and one person's 52 % of your sponsorships.

21:44If I'm buying you, that would be a huge risk. I would say hopefully less than 20 %

21:52Kim Perell: all the time. So you like different verticals in the business? Yeah, just different advertisers. It depends who's finding the business or different clients, right? I think a lot of times companies have one key client, which makes sense, up to a point. I think if you have more than 20%, it's a hard sell. You lose that client and you're going to lose either, maybe that client drops 80 % of your profitability. Well, that's very hard on a business. So I really want to make sure I'm looking at businesses that have predictable income and are diversified. If somebody came to you, Kim, and was just like, hey, could you invest in my company?

22:28What would your advice be for a founder or an entrepreneur with an early stage company? They have this startup, they have this idea, and they're wanting to connect with the right people to get an investment or get investors. What would your advice be for them to get in the right rooms and to make a solid pitch to someone like yourself?

22:44Kim Perell: Yeah, it's a numbers game. So for me, it's trying to find a connection. I'm always looking for a personal connection. So I'm from Oregon. We have a personal connection. I have four kids, whatever the personal connection is, like, it doesn't matter. Where'd you go to school? Do you like surfing? Find some personal connection. And that will make me more interested in doing a deal with you. And so just because it separates the thousands of people that contact me versus, you know, oh, you went to school where I went to school. Okay, we now have a personal connection. So trying to find something like that to at least build a foundation from, because that's a foundation of trust.

23:22Kim Perell: And so really looking at that originally, and how does this help you? If I'm a mom and you're selling me something for kids, that makes sense, right? You are a mom. How many kids do you have? I have four. Four kids. Four kids. How do you balance being a mom, but then also running all these different businesses? Being a mom with four kids, it's like running a company. That sounds crazy, but it is. Life's a team sport. So I have like an amazing team supporting me because there's no way I can do all of this alone. And so just as you have a great team in a company, I have a great team at home and my kids, everyone is like, we're, you know, even they will say like teamwork, we are in this together.

23:57Kim Perell: And I involve them in what I'm doing. So they know where I'm going, they understand what I do. And they're excited. I mean, it's really important for them to know what I'm doing, what and I'm excited, right? If I'm excited, they're excited too. But it is about having an amazing support system. You cannot do it alone. I think that's the biggest lesson after decades of experience in companies and building businesses and relationships is trying to do everything yourself. What would you say is the biggest thing you're teaching your kids about money that you weren't taught growing up? I think it's looking at money from an abundance mindset.

24:32Kim Perell: Well, I grew up in a very scarcity mindset. My dad was always chasing something like a dream. We never had any money. It was really hard and it was tough to grow up in a house like that because there's so much uncertainty, right? So it brings you to a scarcity mindset. But I think for my children's sake, thinking of an abundance mindset, there's enough for everyone. Everyone can be successful. It doesn't matter. We can have a beverage company. There can be tons of great beverage companies. That's great. And so thinking of money differently, I think is really important for me and teaching about them.

25:07Kim Perell: I mean, my seven-year-old has a Greenland account. We're investing. They know, which is exciting. I mean, when I was seven, I didn't know. I wasn't investing in stocks. I loved us talking about mentorship because we always like to say mentorship is like wisdom without the wounds. And so for like entrepreneurs, obviously you wrote a book on mistakes that are made. So like what's the number one mistake that, you know, entrepreneurs need to avoid when building their companies? I think when I look back, think bigger. Everyone should think bigger. like as big as you can possibly like think in terms of idea and that's what you know when I started out I just wanted to have a nice company like I just didn't want to be broke to be honest like I didn't I was like just trying to make a million bucks like I wasn't looking to you know make a billion dollar company because I couldn't see it at that point but if I had known what I have known when I knew now I would have thought so much bigger and so that's a like a limiting belief that I think you carry from like a young age, which I'm just trying to survive.

26:09Kim Perell: But if you could somehow just think bigger in terms of everything you're doing, that is a game changer on mindset. And usually the universe will work with you. I think what you're saying, though, is actually way more powerful than people have realized, because when you're around people, right, that are own billion dollar companies or whatnot. And I think that honestly, that's what causes it, right? Like, I feel like in our case, right, like interviewing so many people like yourself that have built, you know, these massive nine, 10 figure businesses, it just causes you to realize like, you know, we're doing, you know, eight figures a year right now, but it's like, we could get to, you know, all these different levels, but it's like, it's, it's not until I feel like you're around those other people that make it seem so much more like realistic, you know, which I think is, is honestly really interesting.

26:54But I want to talk about, right. Because, you know, your, your network is filled with hyper successful people from all the time that you spend with these people. What are some of the most common traits that you see that maybe the average person, you know, everyday person that isn't around the same circles that you are would maybe not expect?

27:12Kim Perell: I think one is creativity. And I think in today's world, that really matters. The second is how they manage their network and their generosity, you know, and I think that's really important is they're so generous. and that is amazing to see not in terms of in terms of investing yes but more in terms of time and so they're usually surrounding themselves with a lot of interesting creative individuals that are not the same as themselves where to your point they can learn from new industries new opportunities art food music it doesn't matter they're constantly learning and by surrounding yourself with people that are constantly growing and learning you too will constantly grow and learn which is amazing.

28:00Kim Perell: So it's about getting in the right rooms and surrounding yourself with the right people. Honestly, I do a life audit. It goes like this. I make a list of everyone I surround myself with. I look at the list. I put a plus if they energize and inspire me and challenge me to achieve my greatest potential. I put a minus if they're the dream killers and the naysayers and the critics that are telling you it's not going to work. And then this is what I do. I just audit them out just I do not spend one minute of time because every moment spent with someone that is negative is hurting you so much more than you can realize so it's amazing that you guys have each other because that is so important but when people come in tell you can't it's not gonna work all the reasons just keep moving we always like kind of like to say like we're kind of a unicorn because it's just like like how many companies you know to where you have like a pair of brothers and and like a friend from childhood that actually works out yeah usually never I know that you've you've partnered with a lot of different people obviously like working with Jay Shetty on on a company uh how do you kind of approach different business relationships and partnerships for you like what what kind of is that indicator they're like man I need a partner with that person I really like what they got going on I believe in like what does that kind of indicator to do and then what are your like red flags we're like absolutely not yeah well let's see my so this drink let's see the this Junie.

29:20Kim Perell: So this is my drink with Jay. It's called Junie. It stands for just you and I, and it's about finding moments of connection, which is so authentic and meaning and is health and wellness. And so it's really having like a meaningful connection. And when I met him, we just had a meaningful connection. And I think it's because it's values based in terms of, do we value the same things? Do we value health and wellness? Do we value people? Do we value growth? And if you don't have foundation of values to really connect you, you will not be great partners. And I think that's really important. People miss that, I think, you know, along the way.

30:02Kim Perell: And it's really important because things are going to go wrong. And so if you don't have the same fundamental core values, the same with a marriage, to be honest, like it won't work. because the values I think will bring you back together. Like if you want to stay home and I'm adventurous and want to go out, we're definitely not going to be married for 30 or 40 years. We probably won't make it too. Because I'm going to want to go out and you're going to want to stay home. So having the same values I think is really important. It's like we love adventure, both of us. 100%. You know what's really cool is I was actually in Costco recently and I saw that you guys are in Costco.

30:38So how did you go about, you know, getting the product in, you know, a bunch of different massive retailers around the country?

30:46Kim Perell: I think number one is great relationships. Yeah. It goes back to the relationships. It really does. Guys, I can't stress enough. And so I think even when launching like a brand like Juni, we started calling people who had great relationships. We have investors who have great relationships. You say, oh, but you know a lot of people. I started knowing no one. so but I am really good at offering and like giving before I expect to get anything I will it's a long-term game and so who knows even one of our mentors I met probably 15 years ago which is amazing you never know who you're going to meet and I think it's important there's this great phrase that the same person you see in the elevator on the way up is the same person you see on the way down so treat everyone the same and I think that's really important I think that's one of the biggest things that I've learned as well is just the importance of doing good business because especially as you go up to the top like like everyone knows each other and it's so important to just okay be nice to everyone do right by everyone and it's just like the golden rule and it's just like it's not only just implied in your personal life but it also applies into business and it really is full circle it is I mean you guys are meeting with so many incredible people.

31:59Kim Perell: Think of all those relationships that you're forming that can help you. Not today. It's not about today. I think people are so short term and so short sighted. I'm never thinking about today. I'm thinking I'm going to be successful for decades to come. And the more people I can bring along the way, the better. And so how do we continue to do that? I mean, when I'm investing, I'm thinking I'm going to make a great return. And so is everyone else. You guys are going to make a bunch of money. I'm going to make a bunch of money. And then we're going to help invest in the next generation of entrepreneurs and they're going to make a bunch of money.

32:32I think what you say right there is like not being so short term, right? Is that you have to understand like it may not be like my philosophy and mindset. Like when I meet somebody, it's good energy. Like you said, you know, you know, finding a great connection with your business partners and saying like, hey, we're going to do something together. But maybe it's not next month. Maybe it's not six months, a year. Maybe it's three years. Maybe it's five years. But we'll probably do something together at some point. And so I just think having that mentality is extremely important.

32:55Kim Perell: extremely and also I think what I've seen without so many successful people is they invest in the relationships in relationships you want to work you're going to have to go above and beyond and so knowing that and really doing that and fostering great relationships because it doesn't happen by just meeting and saying hopefully when I call you and you need something I'm going to help you out it's like hey how are you doing like actually caring about how someone's doing and how their life is and how you can help them. I mean, I'm always looking about who, you know, one of my, my core values is being generous on every occasion.

33:31Kim Perell: So who can I help today? Yeah. I want to go back to creativity. It's one of the first things that you brought up when I asked you what you noticed among really successful people. Kim, what is your creative process like? Do you, do you have time like where you just like think and kind of like get creative? Cause I remember it rung a bell in my head and that's why I asked it. Like when I first interviewed you at your home, I think like I asked you like what was the best piece of advice that you ever gotten and had something to do with creativity. I don't remember exactly what the quote was or the piece of advice was, but do you like what is your philosophy on that?

34:01Just the importance of that.

34:02Kim Perell: I think there's so much noise. So you have so much noise and so much bandwidth you can handle at any time. Right. So the noise coming from social media, coming from outside and then bandwidth is how much time and how much can I handle. Right. And so juggling a lot of the things which I do. And that's why I try to cut out all the noise because you can't be creative with noise. And so I set a lot of time. I time block everything. And I have a lot of days where I have nothing on it because I need to think. And with so much noise, you never have thinking time. You can't create. And you can't create outside the box.

34:36Kim Perell: So we're not talking about just creating on a day-to-day basis. It's creating the next version of the life you want to have. And I'm always thinking 10, 20 years out. Like, what's the next version of the life? Like right now, you know, five years ago, I'm like, I want to buy a vineyard in Tuscany. Okay. How do we do that? Like, what's the next version of the life you want to create? And you have to be able to see it. And sometimes the noise is so much and you're just getting overturned. I get that, right? But then you always have to take time, which you're going to say, I don't have enough time.

35:06Kim Perell: I have no time to do that. It's so important to do that, to just step back and listen to yourself, right? Because everyone's going to push you to do something one way or the other way. And society tells you to do something. But you, if you have enough time to think and think how big it could possibly be, that's where the magic happens. How many countries have you been to, Kim? Probably 80 something. Are you serious? Yes, I'd love to travel. I was in Rome two days ago. That's amazing. What is the number one place that people need to see before they die? Oh, I'm going to tell you. there's this amazing resort on the island of sumba off the coast of bali and it's owned by a good friend of mine chris birch and it is the most it's it's called some it's called nihilatu on the edge of the wilderness takes a day or two to get there it is the most magical place you will ever ago.

36:03Kim Perell: It's got wild horses running on the beach, the best surf break. It's just so incredible. And I would say that's not bad. I mean, when I think of my happy place, that is it. What do you think about work-life balance? I think work-life integration, not work-life separation. Everything I do is integrated. And everything I do is because I want to do it. And I think I'm in a point now where I'm able to do that and I'm able to choose. But I think going back to when I first started, I'm just at my kitchen table and everyone's calling me crazy. All I'm trying to do is just make a living. I get it, right?

36:39Kim Perell: Like I've been there. I get it. But at this point, it's really about how do I do what I love with people I love? And if you're not, if I'm not doing what I love with people I love, then I don't do it. It's like two very clear criteria. And people should actually look at that because if you hate the people you're working with, that is a huge red flag. Back to red flags. And you should really re-evaluate why you're doing it because life's short, time's short. There's got to be other ways to do great business. You've been kind of involved in so many different industries. If you could pick one industry that you're most excited about today, right now, that people should get into, what would that be?

37:18Kim Perell: To be honest, I get in because I'm passionate about what the industry is. So I love health. I love wellness. I love biohacking. I like, I mean, I created drink, but the drink is organic. I really want better for you. And I think there's so many opportunities. I don't think it matters what you're building because there's so many opportunities. Everyone's like 93 % of capital is going to AI. I get it. I have a lot of great investments in AI. Yes. But there's so many entrepreneurs that have ideas in consumer or in healthcare or in other industries, great bets to be made. So I don't want to, I want to encourage people that if you're not in, you should be using AI, yes, in your business, 100%.

37:58Kim Perell: I mean, but think about it. Only one of every six people has even adopted AI. Like we're in early innings. So you should be using it in your business, but your business could be anything. And so I think encouraging people that it doesn't have to be what people say it should be. It should be where there's an opportunity and you have a unique competitive advantage. Love that. Kim, we'd like to end these podcasts off with two questions. I'll start and Jack will finish this. So Kim, if all of us sitting here were to die tomorrow and you could leave one last message with the younger generation, what would that be?

38:29Kim Perell: It's a big one. I really want to like leave something really important. Take your time. You got as much time as you need. My message would be that no one is successful alone. And it's important to surround yourself with supportive, inspiring individuals that demand you live up to your greatest potential and if you don't have them get them love that and kim started a lot of companies invested in a lot of companies but for you how do you want to be remembered i want to be remembered on how many lives i positively was able to impact love that well kim this was an awesome conversation we appreciate you being with us today oh thank you for everybody that's tuned in right now be sure to like and subscribe for amazing content, amazing episodes coming every week with the eight, nine, 10 and 11 figure founders that we interview on the school of hard knocks right here to the hard knocks podcast.

39:13We're going to put the links down in the description for you guys to get access to Kim Perel social media handles that way you're able to follow along with her and her journey. You've written an incredible books. It's about mistakes that business owners make that people can check out the beverage brands and stores all around the world now. And lastly, you guys, we're going to put a link down in the description to join the school of mentors, the number one community for entrepreneurs in the entire world, where every week we host live calls with the 8, 9, 10, and 11-figure entrepreneurs that we interview on the School of Hard Knocks.

39:40So we can't wait to see you on the inside. With that being said, we'll see you in the next episode.