Heavyweight x Search Engine

0:00Hello, hello. Hello. Hi. Hey, how's it going? Good. I can only see half of you. Is that by design? No, that's by mistake. It was very mysterious. You look very cozy. I think it's a part of, I wear this, Emily, when she goes through my clothes, as she sometimes does, will want to throw out this turtleneck that I've had for like over 20 years. I bought in Chicago when I was at This American Life, and I never wear it, except like once a year. I have to be in a very specific mood. What's the mood? And usually that mood is hanged over, and I wear it. and it offers me something that I can't quite describe.

0:37Okay, so here we are. And where are you? Are you at home? No, this is Jigsaw Studios. Oh, it looks nice. Yeah, it's nice. It's lit a little bit like a hostage video, but otherwise it's good. Yeah. First of all, can you introduce yourself? Hello, my name is Jonathan Goldstein. And what do you do for a living? What do I do for a living? What do I do for a living, PJ? I sell smiles.

1:07I'm the host of Heavyweight, the podcast that helps people. It's one of my favorite podcasts. So every episode, oftentimes it's a listener, but you'll find someone who has an unresolved thing in their life that they're unable to get over, which I think describes human beings. And then you'll go help them resolve it, and there's usually a story in it. There's always a story in it, and the story is my favorite combination where it's funny and also moving. We were going to share one of my favorite episodes, which I both love because the story itself is very moving, but also one of the subjects is Nancy Updike, who's one of my favorite radio reporters.

1:46So it's just exciting for me to hear her crossing over into the heavyweight universe from the This American Life universe. I'm so excited that we're getting to share this genuinely. Well, thank you. Thank you, PJ.

2:02I'm Jonathan Goldstein, and this is Heavyweight. Today's episode, Dan.

2:16Right after the break.

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3:24Hey, Dan. Hey, Jonathan, how are you? Dan is a serious journalist, like national security correspondent Sirius. Sorry, I'm just trying to turn off my phone so it doesn't be... Turning off your phone during an interview? Sirius journalism. Actually, I should do the same thing. Dan is a friend whom I've known for years, but conversation can still sometimes feel like a game of chess. You're looking well. Thank you. Rested. Likewise. Good of you to say. Check and mate.

4:07Given what a serious journalist Dan is, I'm surprised he's come to me for help. But then, his crisis is not one of national security. His is a crisis of the heart. And that is an area in which my journalism excels. Dan's story all begins in the summer of 2003, the night he and his wife Nancy first met. At a dinner party hosted by this American diplomat in Jerusalem. And Nancy got to the dinner late because she was out on a date that night. A terrible date. I went to see X-Men 2, which was unfortunate all the way around. This is Nancy, also a friend whom I've known for years, and also a serious journalist for the podcast Serial and This American Life.

4:58And I wasn't even going to go to this party. I just thought, oh, for Christ's sake, why am I going to this? But then she met Dan. He was quiet. I noticed that he was just kind of watching and not being rambunctious. You know, there's a lot of sort of false hilarity at parties, and that was not something he was engaging in. A week later, Dan and Nancy went out on a date at an Italian restaurant in downtown Jerusalem. You know, it's July. It was warm. She was wearing a tank top. I remember I ordered ravioli and a beer. And she ordered a burger and a whiskey. Because, I don't know, that's the kind of hard-drinking, hard-eating gal I was.

5:53Nancy says she'd been on a lot of first dates and rarely got her hopes up. She was wary, anticipating the moment, say, when Dan would ask her to see X-Men 3. Still, something about Dan drew her in. I remember him saying very early on that he was separated and that he had two kids. And I could see that he was kind of bracing for that to be a deal breaker for me. And I didn't feel that way at all. On the contrary, I felt interested and excited. And yeah, you're a whole person with a whole person's complications. It was nice. It was fun.

6:39But then something strange happened. Do you want to jump in with a question? Serious journalism. This must be frustrating for you. You must feel like, I could do both sides of this. What do I need this turkey for? But yes, indeed, like, what happened? We're still just in the stage where we're getting the main facts. Where are you from? What are you doing here so far from home? And a woman who is sitting with her husband at the table right next to us leaned in towards us and said, hey, you know, excuse me, sorry for interrupting, but I think I know your father. Dannett shared with Nancy that his dad lived in California and helped invent the breakfast cereal Cap 'n Crunch.

7:31Hearing these details, the woman realized the connection. She said, that's so funny. He's our friend. We live next to him. He throws these great parties. He and his wife are very generous philanthropists in the community. You know, I can't believe it of all the people to be next to. And it'll be so great when we tell him we ran into you. And they went back to their dinner. We went back to ours. And Dan looked sort of startled. But it wasn't just the surprise of being recognized by a stranger 7 ,500 miles from home. It was also surprising for another reason, which is that I don't know my father.

8:18I have not had contact with my father since I was very young. And Dan was very quiet. And he said, I actually don't know my father at all.

8:33It was basically like our date was kind of split into two parts. and the first part happened before that moment with the couple next to us and the second part happened afterward, it just turned into a completely different conversation that was like, here's the deal.

8:54Here was the deal. Leaning in so that the couple wouldn't hear, Dan explained that his parents split up when he was five. It was a very acrimonious divorce and afterwards, his father essentially disappeared from his and his sister's life. Their mother struggled to raise the two kids on her own, and life with Dan's mother wasn't easy. She was a Holocaust survivor, and Dan says she carried the trauma of those years for the rest of her life. And because he told that whole story, I then ended up telling a whole complicated story of my own, my own parents' divorce. You know, suddenly we were talking about things that were real.

9:36It created this intimacy that, you know, you can go on five dates and not get to that. Back at the neighboring table, the couple paid the check and got up to leave. But before they did, the woman came over once more. And said, hey, do you mind if I take a photo of you too? This will be so funny. Let's take a picture of you and we'll send it to your father. And Nancy and I kind of looked at each other. It was this look of, okay, this is weird, but why not? And we kind of leaned in. I think maybe even I put my arm around Nancy. And they took this picture.

10:23Dan and Nancy posed, frozen smiles hiding their real smiles at the fact that this woman adjusting her camera knew nothing of what they knew. It was pretty funny. I think at some point they even said, like, we didn't even know he had a son. And it's like, oh, lady, you have no idea.

10:46It was like we had an experience together. Right, right. You know? Yeah. We had this inside joke already. After the photo, things moved quickly. I think I gave Nancy the key to my apartment within two weeks of that date. The photo was a chance. You know, it gave us a chance to both kind of take the first big leap of our relationship. Would you say that the woman sitting beside you was sort of like a cherub, but rather than carrying a bow and arrow, she was holding a camera? Would you say that, Nancy? I wouldn't say that, but I would support your saying that. And with Nancy's full support behind me, I will say that because Dan and Nancy have now been together for 19 years.

11:38I mean, you know Nancy, so you know how lovely she is and funny and warm. And all that was on display right away that evening. And I fell in love with her at that dinner. And that first spark was captured in the photo. Because of crashed hard drives, Dan and Nancy have lost the photos from the beginning of their relationship. So while those photos have certainly gone, the first photo, the most important photo, might not be. And so Dan has come to me to find it. But here's the catch. If the woman with the camera kept her promise, then the photo is in the hands of Dan's father. And? I am not particularly interested in trying to reach out to my father, directly or indirectly.

12:27In other words, this is what might make it more tricky. If he has the photo, I don't want to go that road. It's been about 50 years since Dan's father walked out on the family. Dan isn't looking to make contact now. But I can't help thinking that as much as Dan wants the photo, some part of him must also be wanting something more from his dad. The strange symmetry is hard to ignore. The thing Dan wants most is in the hands of the person he wants to talk to least. But Dan is adamant. Yeah, the mission here is not, let's reach out to him and get to know him. I really just want the photo. Are you saying sometimes a photo is just a photo?

13:13Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's just a photograph. No. But I don't think I can know everything that it means to him, necessarily. I think it's hard to want anything from a parent who has been so thoroughly absent. Yeah. So thoroughly derelict.

13:41Does he remember anything about his father?

13:53um

13:59I'm hesitating you know this is small but it's it's personal um

14:14it's a sad memory I mean to me it's sad to me it's sad

14:23he told me he remembered his father rubbing his back

14:36I rub his back a lot

14:41With Dan's father in the no-fly zone it leaves only one person who might have a copy of the photo the woman with the camera Do you remember what she looked like? I think she had curly brown hair and I can get Nancy's take on this as well Dark hair Like, not really a beehive, but sort of up and kind of pin curls-y or something. Yeah, I think maybe she said something about the Jewish community. So I wouldn't be surprised if they're active in the Jewish community there. I look at the notes I've been taking. An older, possibly Jewish woman from California, who, when traveling to Israel in 2003, maybe wore her hair in a beehive, I mean, this is really, this isn't really not a lot, you know?

15:32Yeah. It's going to be hard. Finding her is a big obstacle, and then 18 years later, does she have this photo lying around? I begin my search for the woman with the camera where it all began. Focaccia Bar. Focaccia Bar, the restaurant in Jerusalem where Dan and Nancy had their first date. Wielding what's left of my bar mitzvah lesson language skills, my plan is to endear myself to the Focaccia Bar staff. Shalom.

16:09Is there a manager, maybe? One second. Hello? Shalom.

16:20Hello. Yeah, yeah, how can I help you? I tell the manager about my two friends who had their first date at his restaurant. Yes, 18 years ago. Oh, nice. Yeah, and... Encouraged by his interest, I explain the whole story, how I'm trying to find the woman with a camera, and how maybe he has her credit card receipt on file. Luckily, Dan and Nancy remember the exact day of their date, July 1st, 2003. So yeah, you couldn't go back to the computer, just type in 2003? No, man, there are not so much technology, you know. No, I changed back seven or eight computers, different computers, you know. So nothing you could do in other words?

17:05No, nothing. Nothing, okay. Thank you for taking the time. Ciao to you. Shalom. Hello? So, I try something else. Since the woman was a neighbor of Dan's father, I look up his address and contact the county assessor's office. I request historical records of property owners in his town from 2003. But it turns out that, like the Caccia bar, they aren't very technologi and don't keep data dating back that far. Unable to find a list of past neighbors, I decide to try calling present ones. Maybe the woman with the camera is still living in the same neighborhood as she was in 2003, or, at the very least, maybe someone who knows her does, my producer Stevie and I turn to the white pages and start phoning.

17:59Hello? Hello, my name is Jonathan Goldstein. The reason I'm phoning is I do a pod... Are you familiar with podcasts? No, but I... No, I don't have time for anything. I just... Thank you. I'll get to the point, ma 'am. Hello? The neighbors rarely let me get to the point. And even when they do, I mostly met with one of two reactions. Pity. Oh, good luck. Or non-pity. I haven't photographed anybody. I've been to a noodle bar. I know nothing about what you're talking about. So you're pointless coming here and talking to me. Thank you. Bye. All right. Well. Did she say I've never been to a noodle bar?

18:44Uh-huh. All right, we can cross that one off the list. After dozens of calls to random strangers, I begin to lose hope. But since Dan thought the woman with the camera might have known his father through the Jewish community, I phone every synagogue within an hour's drive of Dan's father's neighborhood. I get the rabbis to include a call-out in their e-newsletters. It doesn't yield a thing. Confronted with the futility of finding a nameless woman with an indeterminate address, I reach back out to Dan It seems as though it might be impossible without, you know, in some way it kind of connecting to your father Yeah, Nancy and I talked a bit about it Perhaps anticipating the shortcomings of my journalisming, Nancy devised a strategy Dan's fear is that his dad will think this is an attempt to reconcile to reconnect.

19:39And so... What I said was Jonathan could just call him and say, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm just here for the photo. If you could just give us the photo, that's all I want. Dan is comfortable with this approach. But before giving me the green light, he says there's one last person I need to call. I mean, we share a lot. and we probably did actually raise one another. This is Abby, Dan's older sister. Given the difficulty of their childhood, they've always sort of been a team of two. So Dan wants to make sure she's okay with my contacting their father. Abby tells me that over the years, she and Dan have reached out to their father a number of times, almost always to no response.

20:28The last time for Dan was 20 years ago when he was in his mid-30s. For Abby, it was March of last year. Dan and Abby's mother had just died, and Abby was going through her mom's belongings when she found some photos of her parents, taken early in their relationship. And they were happy pictures. They were pictures of love and, you know, and passion. And so I wrote to him and I said, I've been going through these pictures and I see lots of beautiful pictures of you and my mom. And I just wanted you to know that my mom has passed. And it looks like there were times that were also beautiful. And then I ended by saying, I have a beautiful family and I'm very lucky.

21:12And Danny is lucky.

21:17Abby sent the letter not expecting to hear back. But about two weeks later, her father answered. And he said something to the effect of we weren't happy. and he said family is very important. But he didn't, you know, he didn't say anything about my children or he didn't say anything about even my loss. I mean, he didn't have the, you know, the, I guess the depth, the emotional depth. Which is why she doesn't see the point in asking her father for help, even though we're only asking for the kind of small effort you'd expect anyone to make. If I have a photo, you'll call me up and you'll say, Abby, do you have the photo?