What’s in your cocaine and the questions Search Engine CAN’T answer

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28:54Welcome back to the show. So at some point, I had the idea, which is that I wanted listeners to send in questions they thought would just be unanswerable. And then I wanted to try to answer them with one of my favorite writers and friend, Calvis Sané, live on air. I thought it'd be fun to take a break from our normal approach where we take one little question and research the hell out of it and instead just get Gatling gunned with a bunch of unanswerable questions without access to research or the search engine team. For me, it was really enjoyable. I'll let you be the judge. So I'm going to play the segment.

29:25The first voices you'll hear are Search Engine Senior Producer Garrett Graham and writer Kel Fasane. So what are we doing today? So over the past week, we collected, PJ, dozens, maybe, maybe a hundred of questions. Yeah, high dozens, low hundreds. High dozens, low hundreds in the effort to stump PJ and, okay, if I may say, in the effort to stump you as well, but they may not have known that they were going to be stumping you as well. So we're going to pull what is essentially a random assortment. There's been some light curation involved, but a random assortment of some of those questions that came in.

30:01And this is a little bit just like pulling questions out of a hat. This is like a throwback to when we did this on stage. This is very much like when we did it on stage. And you had a, was it a literal hat? I can't remember. It was a literal hat that I just happened to be wearing that night. We should do that again sometime. Yeah, sure. We're doing it today. Okay, so first question, pulling it out of the randomized hat here. This question comes from Ryan, and the question is, how long does it take for grave robbing to become archaeology? Oh. Oh. How long does it take for grave robbing to become archaeology?

30:37Because if I were to dig up someone buried at a local cemetery, that would be a crime, but if I were to dig up an ancient person, that would be celebrated socially. That's the question? That's the premise as I understand it. I mean, I would want to do what I would always do, which is reject the premise. Like, is it ever celebrated socially to dig up a grave in this day and age? Aren't there big repatriation debates, roiling museums? Well, I would say definitely there was a brief period of time where, like, the guy who found, what was it, ancient Greek city? it wasn't Troy but who was that guy we read about him in fifth grade Mr.

31:20Worth like there was a moment where we celebrated archaeologists you had Indiana Jones prominent fictional archaeologist like I think maybe the maybe maybe the answer is that these things are contingent and change with culture and that it's less to do with time and more to do with how moderns are feeling and also the sort of like the grave being dug like whether there are people who have feelings about that grave you know what i'm thinking about pj i'm thinking about driver's licenses why driver's licenses well there should be an option on the driver's license of whether or not your grave can be dug up by historians yeah whether you want to donate your eyes your brain whatever your heart but also your bones right this is in the same category would you donate would you say rob my grave yeah maybe you do like a grace period right a hundred maybe it's like copyright it's like oh my last surviving relative who's alive when I am plus 50 years or something.

32:18Wouldn't you just put it and then have at it? Would you just carve it on the gravestone? Would it be like an expiration date for a gravestone? I guess this depends on how much we want to incentivize people giving permission, right? If you have to carve it on your gravestone, there's going to be a very small number of skeletons available. But if it's an opt out situation, a cast Sunstein nudge kind of a thing on your driver's license, then a lot of people will be like, oh, yeah, yeah, whatever. Dig me up. I like this. I think we're imagining a future society that is very respectful of our corpses, which I like to try to imagine future societies is not worse than us.

32:51So I think that's good. I would also be very like, are you an organ donor? I think so. I don't know. I think so. I'm an organ donor. I would be pro-dig me up. If people think they can learn something from my body, like what happens when someone treats their organs like a meat sack, then it's worthwhile. What if they want to do something frivolous with your bones? Oh, like a funny Halloween decoration on a front yard? Sure. Musical instrument? Depends on if the joke is good, which I won't be there to evaluate. But if they want to use my body for science or art, I would say that I affirmatively consent.

33:25Turn your skull into a chalice? Yeah. My morbid ID will say that I can be used for silly stuff. But to get things back to search engine engine a little bit, if you were trying to answer this question for the show, Like, what's your first call? It's funny. You know, one of the things that we sometimes struggle with with stuff like this is like, who's, like, I feel like we're in a moment of strange views towards experts. So, like, I think 10 years ago, I would have gone to just, like, a professor who thinks about this stuff. And now I kind of wouldn't go to a professor who thinks about this stuff.

34:05I think my first call wouldn't be a call. I think I'd just be trying to research. Like I'd be trying to figure out like I do actually think that there was a there was like a there my loose pop cultural imagination is that there was a moment where things that we actually would reasonably consider basically grave robbing were wildly celebrated. There was kind of a clawback and now it's pushed even further in the other direction. And I would just want to sit down and try to understand like how you could chart the social attitudes changing. Like, I don't think you would invent Indiana Jones today, but we don't feel so bad about it that you can't make many, many, many more Indiana Jones movies, maybe which should be for other reasons.

34:50I can't remember. I think I did see the most recent one. Have his ethical practices evolved over the years? I didn't see the most recent. The Phoebe Waller-Bridge one? Yes. I don't know if Indiana Jones has become more thoughtful about his relationship. I mean, usually they also kind of cheat it where the Nazis are racing for whatever he wants, which at that point, it's kind of like it unbalances the scales morally. But like, what do you if you were if this came up in a pitch meeting, what are you looking for in your initial research or Googling or whatever magic Garrett does to know like, oh, this could make a good show or like, no, this isn't going any further than these five minutes of riffing?

35:27I think what I would be asking Garrett to look for is like, you do like what's what is what is kind of what feels alive about the question is I do think they're charting a real change. And I would want to find somebody who got caught at the moment of the change happening. Like, like the ideal story you'd almost be casting for is the person who came out of like, you know, their dig where they'd found an ancient pyramid expecting garlands and applause and found, in fact, they'd stepped into different cultural mores. Like, that's kind of what you'd want. And you just want to you'd be looking for someone.

36:02This is the category of question that is philosophical and not the reason this is a good unanswerable question is because there's literally no answer. And so you'd just be trying to figure out, like, who is the thoughtful person that you can land this conversation with? Okay, there's a very good chance that you would end up in this episode. Do you consider yourself stumped by this question then, PJ? I do not think that there's going to be a single question today that I don't feel stumped by, and I consider myself stumped by this question. But as a listener, this doesn't sound like a question that is out of the realm of possibility for being the basis of a show.

36:37No, it's not outside of the realm of possibility. It's also the other thing I sometimes think about is like one of the outrages that I'm capable of feeling, but I don't know how to think about more thoughtfully is the question of just burial grounds. Like I would like someone to be able to tell me and I would not want to be the person answering this. But like my assumption is if you just think about how many people have died, I assume almost everything is a burial ground. Like it might not be a burial ground in the last hundred years, but just that we are constantly walking on the dead. and I would just like to have a story that lives inside that feeling for a little bit.

37:12But wait, didn't you do a cemetery show? We did a what happens when a cemetery goes out of business, which was like, in my opinion, a perfect question. Because it's a question where you hear it and you're like, what does happen when a cemetery goes out of business? And you realize that maybe the reason the question has never occurred to you is because a part of your mind that doesn't want to think about death or what's after death has actually put a curtain over your own curiosity. And you mentioned one of the oldest cemeteries in America. Yes. Grove Street Cemetery, which happens to be where my father is buried.

37:44Have you visited? Yeah. I don't know. I know. I know. Some people's lives are complicated. You're right. Yes, I have visited. My good friend Mark made a beautiful tombstone. But there was a decision after my father died of like, do we want to go for the cheap cemetery down the street? Or do we want the cool historic cemetery? and you decided the cool historic cemetery how did you decide i mean obviously it was my mom's decision but it like it kind of felt like him he was like a professor and you know so the idea of him in this like august company in this like historical place kind of seemed like it was interesting it's really nice okay we're gonna we're gonna move on to the next dump so gary you want us to spend this much time on each question is that the idea i'm gonna keep us moving along here let's get some more questions out of the hat so uh we have the next one comes from let's see here i think we're gonna go with this question from matthew and the question is two of my favorite people have names that society is turning into insults similarly to the dick to penis semantic change karen and to a lesser extent chad are becoming derogatory terms for awful people so the question is how do we stop this my friend and co-worker karen is one of the best and most experienced pediatric nurses in our rural county her experience instinct and wisdom guides us daily and preventing so much patient suffering.

39:02After a lifetime of service, she should be spared this unfortunate name creep. How do we advocate and stop this without being a scolding, virtue signaling wet blanket? What would the Karens and Chads of America like us to do? Oh, that's a good question. Are you thinking what I'm thinking, PJ? I don't know. What are you thinking? I thought Chads were good. Oh yeah, I thought Chads were good. Isn't a Chad just like a sort of like muscle bound, like a giga guy? Yeah, he's like untroubled by life's difficulties and is a person of action. I guess it depends on what room you're in. But I think we could agree that Karen has definitely taken on like a profoundly negative inflection.

39:41Yes. There's a name in, is it Australia? I don't know. There's others. There's Kevin, right? In France, Kevin is strongly like negatively coded. Is it American coded? I think so. Oh, maybe it's the fact that it's not French. Yes. I actually kind of have views on the Karen thing and kind of do have an idea. I mean, the person threw me at the very end when they said, oh, without being a scolding for choosing one blanket, since that's how I would solve this. But I kind of, I understand why Karen as a term came to popularity, that people were trying to find a way to describe people who kind of like abused calls to the police or like kind of like using the rules in a way that felt nasty or amoral.

40:33But I also have watched it evolve in a way that sometimes gives me a little bit of nausea, where I think if you have a bad word for something that only applies to women, you end up in a place where it's just like another slur that people just apply to women that they don't like. And like slur is maybe a little harsh, but I don't like it. Like, it's something that the teenagers in my life, when their mom does anything that embarrasses them, they'll jump to Karen. And I get like, it actually troubles me. I don't think you can convince people not to use a word that they like using without creating actual social stigma around the word.

41:12But I kind of think if you point out that we mostly try to avoid gendered insults, particularly towards women, Karen gets kind of harder to defend. That is like scoldy and wet blankety. But like, I've done that to 15 year olds. It hasn't worked, but I could imagine it working with an adult. Yeah, it's an insult with a kind of faux specificity. In that way, it's like bro a little bit, where like, it's like kind of gender specific, but like what it means to be a tech bro versus like a tech asshole. Like bro, like it suggests something, but because it's not quite defined, you can't really like defend yourself against an accusation of being a bro, or in this case, a Karen.

41:54You know, I think the thing about slurs in general and insults is that like, they have to be insulting. And the ones that we consider the most generic are the ones that insult people's intelligence, right? And at some point, we may find ourselves having a conversation about why it makes sense to insult people on the basis of intelligence, which is not something that mainly people are able to control, right? So like, there is a whole, you know, the insult discourse is a complicated discourse, because it implies that we're doing something mean or rude by definition. Right. And it's hard to clean up.

42:28Yeah. And most of us try to avoid being mean or rude. And yes, like you, I'm skeptical of times when people say they're being mean or rude, but for good reasons. Yeah. I think that's the other thing I really dislike about Karen is the idea that it's not just that, like, I, I really like when people call other people assholes. Like, I just think it's not when, when someone tells me that someone else is an asshole, my brain does this thing where I'm like, all this person's really saying is that they have a conflict with somebody else. The person might be behaving badly. The person using the word might be behaving badly, but it doesn't, there's, if you could judge an insult as good or bad, I really like asshole.

43:04The problem with Karen is you're both saying this woman is bad and I'm good for noticing it. Like there's, there's like a virtue signaling in the insult that I don't really appreciate. So I would say you have to make, you have to make Karen into a taboo if you wanted to go away. And I would say that I don't feel stumped by this one because I feel like we're doing our part right now. I was about to say like, well, there's some things you can't control and you can't control like if your name gets attached to a thing. But then I remembered that when I went to ninth grade, I told everyone to call me K instead of Kelifa because kids in like middle school were inventing their own versions of Kelifa and it was cauliflower and it was collied, it was elephant, it was all sorts of stuff.

43:46And then people called me K from now on. So I would be hypocritical not to at least acknowledge that one thing that people do when they don't love the resonance of their name sometimes is change it yeah and i think you should call people what they want to be called i think that's like one of the etiquette rules that we almost all agree on most of the time sometimes all right that one i feel like it was answerable sort of can we call that an unstumped one like we can call that unstumped or maybe semi-stumped i will say there's some pretty gold going on in the chat right now with some listeners pointing out that there are some soras out in the world some kindles out in the world some katrinas out in the world some isises out in the world there's a lot of other names beside oh isises are particularly but that's gone down right like that had high political salience and then like now lower political salience yeah maybe you just have to wait these things out time heals all okay next question this feels maybe a little less designed to stump and a little more designed to insult pj's understanding of physics but the question is how does a bicycle stay upright oh come on guys is that really a fair thing to do to a person like me how does it oh you know how centrifugal force

45:06pj annoys all the scientists by naming a force that famously doesn't exist Is that true? Centripetal force. Oh, centrifugal is just like me not knowing what centripetal is? Centripetal is the force that keeps you from flying off into the distance. Centripetal force, I think, scientists should correct me, is it feels like you're being pushed out, but you're not actually being pushed out from the center when you're spinning around. It's that something is preventing you, is like pulling you in because otherwise you would go straight. So why do bicycles fall over? I think that's different. Doesn't that have more to do with like gyroscopes or something?

45:39Gyroscopes? Yeah, like how when something's spinning, it has more stability. God. No one's ever going to listen to Search Engine again. You know, I had this moment of when I went to college and I wanted to be a radio DJ and they gave me a test to test my knowledge of punk rock, like a written 90-minute test. And I was like, I've never been so qualified and prepared for anything in my life. Well, this question is the opposite of that. anything that is science or math uh is a pretty good way to stump me besides like very basic arithmetic which i can do decently well stop bragging okay we're gonna move on to a question from jim here which is uh should you give money to homeless people or maybe phrased differently is it better to give or not to give why please discuss Oh, definitely.

46:28Definitely. You should give and it's better to give. I I've been persuaded by my partner just like will keep large amounts of money in her pocket to give to homeless people whenever they ask. And I just think like setting aside all the kind of like consequentialist questions or like blah, blah, blah, blah. If you don't, I feel like you end up in a world living in a city like New York where you just have to turn your mind off to lots and lots of suffering. And I just think that that is a bad way to engage with the world. I don't know that I'm like solving that suffering by handing over like, okay, bills when I see somebody, but like the moral experience I have of living in the city is way better since I just started copying her.

47:08Well, this is, I mean, this is interesting, right? because it suggests that the suffering itself or your exposure, your intentional and conscious exposure to the suffering is good in and of itself. I think it is. And in that sense, the people who are suffering are in a weird way doing you a service. I don't know that they're doing me a service. Because they're reminding me that there's misery in the world and that is helping with my moral instructions. Well, that's what you said. You said that these encounters are valuable to you and that you're willing to pay money in order to have this experience.

47:44That is not what I said. I just think that it's bad to tune. I think the more things you're tuning out, the worse, even though you have to tune a lot out. I see. But if you were living in a city where you did not visibly see people suffering, would that be bad? If they were suffering somewhere out of sight? um i don't know where you're supposed to set the bounds of your empathy sympathy like moral consideration and i think one of the obvious modern problems is that we're aware of so much suffering and for the most part the only thing like we seem to be able to do is like angrily post about it i think that i don't know i think for me as someone who really struggles with this I just try to think like I'm actually going to really think about the proximate circles like I'm really going to think about suffering in like my family and friend groups and then I'm going to think about suffering in my neighborhood and then I'm sort of going to think about suffering in the communities I'm in and everything past that I kind of don't know what to do about but if I lived in a city where there's just like great social services and nobody was homeless and everybody was doing really well.

49:02I don't think that that would, I think that would be good. I don't think it would be like, I don't think it would then mean I needed to think about people in another place necessarily. But for me, if I'm around it, I want to think about it, even though it's not like I'm volunteering or anything like that. Ordo Amoris. What's that? It's like the concentric circles of love and compassion. Ordo Amoris. It's a concept that was much in the news earlier this year when it was expounded by J.D. Vance. Oh, wow. How was he? He was like, I need to find everyone in my circles. He said, as an American leader, but also just as an American citizen, your compassion belongs first to your fellow citizens.

49:44That doesn't mean you hate people from outside of your own borders, but there's this old school concept. I think it's a very Christian concept, by the way, that you love your family, and then you love your neighbor, and then you love your community, and then you love your fellow citizens in your own country. And then after that, you can focus and prioritize the rest of the world. It's so funny because he's so, when I listen to him talk, I'm always like, I think he is very smart. And he applies his skill at making arguments to things that are so hard to defend. And so it's like, that's a really beautiful concept.

50:20I don't know what it has to do with like anything that he's been supporting for this term. But I think this question that you were talking about. I think this is a central question that all of us wrestle with in different ways is like, what do we owe to people who are close to us, either in familial terms or like just geographically versus what we owe to people who are further from us? Yeah, and I don't know. I definitely don't have the right answer to that. But I think that not, I think we all have to decide what we're gonna let in from far away. And I think we struggle with that. And it can mean like people feeling vast amounts of pain about situations that they actually can't really control.

50:56I think it can mean people feeling vast amounts of rage about people that they don't need direct rage to. But I think not ignoring what's actually here seems like a pretty good start to a confusing moral problem. Can I make a small counterpoint? Yeah. Which is that I think that one thing that happens is that people that are the most intent on not shutting people out, on letting people in that are close to them, of being in touch with the suffering around them, I think they sometimes feel like that ends up can be exhausting or unpleasant. Yeah. And I think so sometimes what happens is that those people end up making choices, sometimes subconsciously, that take them a little further away from those people.

51:41In other words, like if every time you pass someone in the street who's suffering, you might find yourself wanting to move to a neighborhood, a city, or a state that has less of that in your daily life. And you might not explain to yourself in those words that that's why you're doing it. But you might find that just like mentally, psychically, you're like, oh, there's something about living out in the woods that really appeals to me. There's something about living in some rural place that appeals to you. But maybe subconsciously, part of what will appeal to you is being a little further from that suffering, right?

52:11If we create a universe where you have these obligations to people you see who are suffering right close to you, then one way to resolve that tension is to get further geographically away from people who are suffering. Yeah, I think that's true. I think it's also like I have had bad balls and I wonder if it's some unexamined part of me that's just like it's hard to live in a city. Yeah. Like it's hard to morally live in a city. Okay, what's the next one? That was nice. We're going to take a turn from somewhat serious to somewhat silly. this is a question from adrian uh the the question reads pj you're going to hate this my question assuming it was directly overhead how many average sized extra large chicken eggs would it take stacking one on top of the other to reach from the highest point on earth to the lowest point in the sea of tranquility on the moon that's it that's my question this is like a consulting interview question it's a trick it's a trick question why is it a trick question save me kid?

53:08Well, because everyone says Everest, but the highest point, you know, what you want to be talking about is Chimborazo in Ecuador, which is not the highest point above sea level, but it's the furthest from the center of the earth because of the equatorial bulge, right? Which adds like 27 miles. And so it's actually a mile and change maybe further from the earth's center than the top of Everest, but we're only talking about a mile or two, right? And then if you think about the Sea of Tranquility, Mare Tranquilitatis, I call it. It's like 500 miles in diameter, right? But like this podcast, it is not that deep.

53:41So I think you'd want to ignore, I think at the Earth's highest point in the Sea of Tranquility, you'd want to ignore all that, right? And you'd want to just look at the distance because it'll come out. And you want to just look at the distance between Earth and the moon, right? Call it, what, 239 ,000 miles, maybe? 230, right? So an egg, call it what 2.4 inches so 63 000 inches in a mile 26 000 eggs in a mile if you divide it down so 26 000 times 239 000 call it 6 000 000 so six billion give or take like i said this is like having a bodyguard intellectually just just spitballing with no advanced knowledge whatsoever did you pick up the questions as the host of this show pj i have certain privileges nice try listener okay that was truly terrifying okay also if folks have stumpers they want to throw in the chat we might have time for a couple of live stumpers at the end so throw them in the chat maybe i will call your name you can come off mute and ask your stumper live But let's move on to our hat full of questions here.

55:01Let's see. Let's see here. This is another kind of mathy one. And I feel like K is in a mathy mood right now. Oh, no. It's been out there. If we had a base 12 numbering system, how would the world be different? Like, so we would count in 12s instead of 10s? Yeah. Well, we would obviously have an extra finger on each hand, right? because that's how we got to 10. That sounds great, honestly. And an extra toe, which would maybe affect us less. And so then I'm imagining, because I don't think the base would matter that much in terms of our everyday math. We'd figure it out, right? We'd have two more numbers

55:45between 9 and 10, I guess, right? But then does 100 lose all its power? I feel like 100 has a lot of significant power. No, we still write 100, but it just is equivalent to 144 of something. I guess I can live in that world. I think the toes thing would bother me a little bit, but I can live in that world. I don't think feet need to be grosser than they currently are. But my question is, in that world, our hands are a little better, right? So we're a little better at manipulating objects, right? So music probably sounds different. Music gets better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have more ying-wee-maom steams.

56:17Well, I was going to say, it depends on what you enjoy. But yes, music probably has more notes. solos get more elaborate yeah i wonder i wonder if there are some downsides right like evolutionary like sometimes these evolutionary advances are kind of zero sum so if more energy is going to growing that 11th and 12th finger does something else evolve more slowly is there less are there less calories available for something else so maybe it's like where maybe iq takes a hit and the human race is a little bit more slow processing, but we have more fingers to count on. Our music gets better. We're typing more.

56:57The internet would get worse. But there's a big problem in terms of communication. Have you already identified the big communication problem? You can't give people a middle finger anymore. Exactly right. There's no middle finger. But it would be this. You hold up your two middle fingers. i guess that feels ruder right that's closer to like the british up yours right yeah it feels it doesn't feel good if you had two middle fingers so yes i think that i think i think hands would be the biggest difference in a base 12 world i feel like we totally i don't feel stumped by that at all that is a beautiful answer do we have time for one more a couple more yeah let's hit one more i'm gonna pull one more out of the hat here um let's see i think our final question is a somewhat, yeah, this is a good one.

57:45This is a chewy one. Humans don't need to eat meat to survive. What moral reason do we have to continue eating animals? Oh, I think about this a lot. Kay, you were vegan for a while. Yeah. How did you decide to become vegan? As a person who thinks hard about moral questions, how did you decide to not be vegan? I don't want to get too complicated in terms of philosophical concepts, PJ. but peer pressure peer pressure in both directions yeah i think so like for me it was like more of a cultural thing was about being part of a like a punk rock community where everyone was vegan and also straight edge right in the hardcore punk world vegan and straight edge often go together you stop indulging right you stop eating meat you stop or never start drinking alcohol only listen to power chords yeah sure um and so yes i for me it was like that i liked being part of that community.

58:39And yes. And so when my community pressure was binding you, did peer pressure push you out or is just the community dissolved or you left it? Yeah. I found myself like hanging out with different people and I found myself not wanting, not feeling as strong about wanting to be a kind of like an outlier, but also feeling like if I was living in like a vegetarian world or a more vegetarian world, I certainly would not be the one dude eating meat. But do you now, when you eat meat, are you aware of like a cognitive moral dissonant feeling in your mind? Yeah, I probably feel a lot of moral dissonance in my day to day life.

59:17It's the thing I it's one of the things I do that most bothers me is like I eat meat. I eat lots of meat. I can't. It's just like if you really take the idea that other beings experience suffering seriously, like I can't come up with a good justification for doing it. I don't like that. I do it. And I do it like I don't judge other people doing it. But I really, it like, it's sort of like a, if this is true, what else is true? Right. Question about myself that I don't like. Although some, if you, if you talk to some vegans, they, to them, the suffering of animals is more objectionable than the killing of animals.

59:48And so that means in some situations, you know, dairy products might give them more pause than meat, depending on how the animal lived and how it was killed. Yeah. And when you read about the ways those animals live, it's very, very unpleasant. Yes. I feel unsettled by it but also weirdly the way that I've handled it is I've decided if I'm going to eat meat I'm like really gonna eat meat and so I've started gravitating towards like meatier meat like I want my brain to if it's gonna if I'm going to cause suffering for pleasure to at least experience the pleasure so weirdly the worrying about it has probably made me worse I feel like maybe I feel like we used to live in a world where we were on closer terms with suffering and with blood and guts and all sorts of things.

1:00:37And I think that we have gotten I'm going to use a word that sounds pejorative, but I don't mean it to be pejorative. I think we've gotten a little more squeamish. And I think in a lot of ways, that's kind of a good thing. And that might be a place where eating habits haven't caught up with other parts of our lives. Right. The kinds of things that we'll put up with, the kinds of things we'll shrug at. Right. Whether it's warfare or like how animals are treated. You know, I think in a lot of ways we've gotten more sensitive and meat's a little weird because it's hidden, because like factory farming processes might mean that in a lot of cases it's gotten more cruel than it used to be 100 years ago or 200 years ago.

1:01:12So I think that there is some like maybe some real dissonance there. Although it's actually surprising when you think about how the internet has become much less moderated and so much more sort of disturbing and sensational images proliferate. You would almost think that the thing that organizations like PETA used to do where they would just like show really terrible photos of real animal suffering, like you would almost expect to encounter that more on social media internet now. And I wonder if that will actually happen. Yeah, and you see it. I mean, obviously our attitudes towards animals are like super, super strange, right?

1:01:48So right now there is someone eating a hamburger while posting angrily about whether or not Hassan Piker shocks his dog. Yes. Yes. Right? No, it's completely, yeah. But that video of like Hassan Piker, the streamer, has this dog in the corner of his house where he's constantly streaming and like may or may not have been using a shock collar. He says it was a vibration collar. but the amount of either real or performed moral outrage I've seen around the possibility that he's doing that. Yeah. Among, if somebody said you're reincarnated tomorrow, do you want to live in a nice house where sometimes someone shocks you with a shock collar, but you're alive?

1:02:26Or do you want to grow up in like a slaughterhouse where you're quickly murdered? Most people would choose. So it's confusing. Our moral reasoning around animals is confusing. Garrett has actually talked about putting a shock collar on you, PJ, on certain days when you're starting to stray outside of the podcast studio. I honestly was thinking about, there are these like shock bracelets you can get that are supposed to, it's like, it's called like the Pavlok. And I was trying to figure out if it would help me focus. And I was like, this is an insane way for people to live. Don't do this. Okay.

1:02:57That I think is all we have time for today. PJ, do you want to sign us off? Also, just before I hand it back over to PJ. Wait, wait, wait, wait, PJ. I'm not the host of this. The host of Search Engine here. Oh, my God. Please. If you want to see more stumpers, throw an email to pjvote85 at gmail.com. Or if you want to see other segments on Incognito Mode, let us know. But Kay, host of this show. Over to you. Thank you, Garrett, as always, the secret power behind Search Engine. And PJ, thank you for coming on and being a guest for the second episode of Search Engine Engine. We'll see everyone again in 14 months.

1:03:35Thank you. Thanks, guys.

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1:07:41Theme, original composition, and mixing by Armin Bazarian. Additional production support on this episode from Noah John and Kim Kupol. Our executive producer is Leah Reese Dennis. Thanks to the rest of the team at Odyssey. Rob Mirandi, Craig Cox, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Maura Curran, Josephina Francis, Kirk Courtney, Vanessa Tinkati, and Hilary Sheff. If you have a business and would like to advertise here on Search Engine, please email us pjvote85 at gmail.com, subject line advertising. You can also send us questions there if you have a question for the show. as I said before if you would like to delete every advertisement from every episode of Search Engine just for you and you alone sign up for Incognito Mode our paid feed five bucks a month 50 bucks a year if you sign up for the annual subscription you can find it at searchengine.show thank you as always for listening

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