Ep. 611 - Caliza Head of Finance Awa Kone - Make Sure Success Does Not Become Failure

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0:39Redirect Health, Protection for Business, and Guidance for People. Go check out redirectcoo.com. That's redirectcoo.com. And if you're talking to them, let them know that Cameron at the COO Alliance recommended you go there as well. There's different things around culture. There is the culture of the country, and then there is the organizational cultures that people are bringing from other places, right? Which sometimes may clash. You bring someone from a big, well-established bank, for example, and they've never worked in a startup. What I've seen done very well in some of the organizations where I've worked with is really this constant acknowledgement that the differences is what makes us stronger.

1:27I've been in organizations like Flutterwave. Music is such an important part of the African culture. Sometimes we start at town halls with music. It's just allowing folks to be who they are. You know, we've had things that were very, very different from that perspective. And it's the communication, right? It's really building this environment where folks are comfortable communicating, folks are comfortable, you know, speaking up. And that takes work. That takes a lot of work.

1:57Welcome to the Second in Command podcast, produced by the COO Alliance and brought to you by its founder, Cameron Herold. In the Second in Command podcast, we talk to top COOs who share the insights, strategies, and tactics that made them the chiefs behind the chief. And now, here's your co-host, experience-driven growth strategist, former chief strategy officer, and author of No One Needs Another Company Mug, Lindsay Smith.

2:28Hello and welcome to today's episode of the Second in Command podcast. My name is Lindsay Smith and I'm your co-host. Our guest today is Awa Kone. She is a global operator and the head of finance at Kaliza, with a career focused on helping high-growth companies build operational and financial infrastructures to scale without breaking. She most recently served as COO of Corridor, and before that, she spent several years as global head of operations at Flutterwave, where she built and scaled teams, treasury operations, and critical infrastructure through a period of extraordinary growth and disruption.

3:05Across her career, Awa has operated at the intersection of strategy, finance, and execution, often stepping into complex environments and building the systems needed to make them work at scale. Awa holds an MBA from MIT Sloan and is a fellow of the Society of Actuaries, FSA. She is also the co-founder of Noom, a gourmet food brand celebrating African gastronomy and storytelling. Originally from Cote d 'Ivry and having built her career across the U.S., U.R. in Africa, Awa brings a distinctly global perspective to her leadership. Welcome. Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Lindsay. Oh, it's my pleasure.

3:48So, Awa, why don't you take us back and tell us your life story and how did you end up where you are today? Yeah, very interesting story, I guess. But so I was born and raised in Ivory Coast, which is a small, it's a small coastal country in West Africa, close to Ghana. And I finished high school in France, because there was a civil war in my country, and then ended up coming to the US to study for university. So I studied actuarial science and actually started my career as an actuary, which was very interesting. You know, I graduated right during the big 09 financial crisis. And so being in such a specialized field allowed me to, you know, have a job as opposed to some of my peers who just didn't have that kind of luck.

4:43It was a very, very interesting field, very specialized, very technical, lots and lots of exam. I was able to finish the exams in about five years, started my career in consulting. And then at some point I realized, look, eventually I'd want to go back to Africa. I'd want to go back to West Africa. I'd want to be involved in business. Both my parents were entrepreneurs and I just felt like all of this actuarial knowledge was too technical, number one, and very, very geared towards the U.S., right? Because when you operate in regulated environment, it's really tied to the country. And so I decided to go back to school, go to business school.

5:29And I'm going to interrupt you for one second because I find this whole actuarial piece just so interesting to me. One of my favorite subjects when I was in school was statistics. and I for the the briefest moment considered should I be an actuary and should I study actual sciences and to this day you are the first human being I've ever met that has studied that so that's just really it's like a flashback to a long time ago so continue you went to business school uh we're out there so you know we're definitely out there but um yeah so I decided to go back to school and I got accepted into the MIT Sloan MBA program, which was a great program for me.

6:12I really liked the fact that you could kind of customize your classes. And I really, really liked the, just the culture in general of the program. So during that program, I had an opportunity to expand my business acumen. I had an opportunity to travel the world, be involved in a lot of events and you know courses that were more global and so I had a fantastic two-year experience and after that a lot of the roles that I've taken I've really been global right right after school I was with Milliman for a little while before I was approached by Swiss Re and it was for a role in Cape Town but I ended up never making it to Cape Town spent couple of years in Switzerland, which was a really fantastic experience, really great leadership.

7:02And then after that, I joined Flada Wave for five and a half years, then Corridor and now Kalisa. So it's just been a lot of really interesting and cool experiences since then. That's impressive. And so have you made it back to Africa yet? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. So a lot of the role, you know, a lot of these roles were really focused on the continent, actually, right? And so spent quite a lot of time on the continent, visited so many countries and, you know, really learned about business and culture and food and everything. So yeah. Good, good. I'm glad I know that was something that was on your list.

7:40So I had hoped that you circled back and actually ended up there. I want to talk a little bit about your time at Flutterware. Tell us what happened there. So Flutterwave was a great experience, It was my first time in the startup. A lot of my previous experiences were in more structured organizations that have been around forever. You know, PwC, Swiss Re. And when I joined Flutterwave, it was really this exciting opportunity to do something that was keenly connected to the continent and had real impact on African lives. Right. However, the timing was a bit tough because I joined in January 2020 and I was going to move to Lagos for a year as I got this role as the global head of operations.

8:28And so it was really important to be on the ground, understand the culture, the partners, you know, build a team and all of that. And as I was moving, in fact, I was, I think, in transit in Amsterdam or something when they announced that the first cases of COVID were in Lagos. And so, I mean, I kept going, but I ended up spending about a couple of weeks there, you know, and then I came back to the U.S. Because, you know, in my mind, it was just like, this is probably going to be a couple of months. And, you know, I'm not situated yet. It doesn't make sense to stay in a hotel while there's a pandemic.

9:02Right. So I came back thinking, well, just a couple of months and I'll be back. And I was probably one of the few people that came back before they shut everything down. And so it was a very, very, very, it was an incredible time because, you know, here I am in this completely new role. Right. Having to build a team, having to build this operational infrastructure for this startup, who in many ways was pioneering a lot of the fintech world on the continent, right? Nobody had done what Flutterwave was doing before. And, you know, things that were really, really interesting is because we've built this massive payment infrastructure on the continent.

9:46And we work very closely with a lot of partners across different countries, different level of tech maturity. And some of them were just not ready for, you know, the country shutting down and the whole COVID thing. So having to adjust was really, I would say it was terrible, but really great at the same time from like a learning perspective, from becoming agile, from solving problems constantly. You know, we've had instances where you could only people were available until like 10 a.m. And so I would start my day at like 1 a.m. or 2 a.m. here and then just make sure that, you know, we had concluded all of our business dealings with some of these partners.

10:27And then I'd say from a leadership perspective, it really, really pushed me because when you're building a team that's going from 10 to 70 and you're miles and miles away and everything is remote, you really become very intentional about the way in which you build the culture, the way in which you communicate to the team, making sure that nobody is, you know, unclear about the vision. and especially the younger generation, people who are just starting their careers. I mean, do you think about the way we learn when we start our careers? It's by being with people and observing how they work and how they move during meetings.

11:09And these guys were just at home completely lost, right? So it had to be very, very intentional. We had to really spend time with finding opportunities is to build those bonds and build a culture of communication and open doors, right? So it was a very interesting time. So you're in a new startup company, in a new role, responsible for global operations during a global pandemic, and you have to build a team. I mean, it seems pretty simple to me, right? Oh, no. So how did you even operate? Because you were not only dealing with restrictions in the U.S. where you were, but you were dealing with restrictions throughout the entire globe.

11:58Yeah. Yeah. And so, I mean, part of it is you have to adjust, right? The whole entire world had to adjust, and we certainly had to do the same. I would start my day, like I said, in the middle of the night, right, because I wanted to be present with the team. I wanted to be part of these approval processes in the beginning as we were forming the team and putting in place the processes. And so I would start very, you know, like 1 a.m. or 2 a.m. so that it's beginning of the day for them. We had probably a few dozen partners. And like I said, some were working to some capacities, some were not. And so in terms of the way in which we moved money around the world, we had to really adjust and we had to become extremely clever and very, very efficient.

12:45Right. And so, you know, in working with our own internal engineering team to figure it out, like we need the reports, we need those reports to be, you know, clean, good to go as quickly as possible because we've got to be able to move things around. we've got to move money and so that's what I'm saying so it was it was terrible and awful but at the same time it was also super exciting because you just have to like you wake up and there's like 10 different problems that you've never even thought of before and you just kind of have to like figure it out and and resolve it and work with the team and coming up with new ideas and it really really shaped me in terms of the way in which um you know nothing scares me anymore but just being able to like resolve a lot of these issues.

13:30And so you've spent most of your career working through helping businesses grow with the right infrastructure so that they don't break. Yes. So talk to me about how you've done that in your career. Yeah. So I'd say after business school, that has probably been kind of my, you know, sweet spot for my past three or so roles. Right. I've really enjoyed my time at Flutterwave and I've really enjoyed this this idea of building from scratch. Right. Taking an idea and starting a company and building and scaling it. And essentially for my past three roles, that's where I've come in, where someone had the fantastic idea.

14:15The business has grown and the operational infrastructure is a bit outdated based on the current growth, but also the rate of the growth. Right. And so I've been brought into those environments to really kind of come in and make sure that, you know, success does not become failure. Right. And helping the company in that in that process. And it is it is a very delicate time because, you know, there's all of this excitement about, hey, you know, we're successful. We have more customers. We've got more flow funds coming in. But then it's also this, you know, thing of we need to be able to protect it now.

14:51Right. And we need to be able to articulate our value proposition, whether it's to investors, regulators, partners. And, you know, because now we have a little bit more requirements. Right. And when you're working with payments, you're handling other people's money. Right. So the more money you have to handle, the more the requirements are. Right. So that's what I've been doing. And part of it is operations, which, you know, some people will call operations. Part of it would be expansion, right? We got to get out there and find the right partners to make sure that we're efficient in the way in which we move money.

15:24Part of it is building governance. Part of it is building accountability. Part of it, like I said, is this developing and articulating the narrative around, you know, our value proposition and why, you know, customers or investors should join the organization. And that's kind of what I've been doing. And so as acting a second in command in all of these various roles and organizations, what has your interaction and relationship with the various CEOs look like? Very, very interesting relationships, right? I think when you when you come from a very structured environment like consulting, right, you know, everybody is just kind of funneled through a path and you kind of go through that.

16:08but you don't necessarily have that direct access to, you know, the leadership or the CEO, at least as I was in my career a little bit early. But with these particular processes, you are working so closely with the CEO, right? And the role or my role is not to stifle the CEO because they have so many ideas and that innovation and that constant wanting to do more is exactly why I'm here, right? It's exactly why the company is successful. And so it's about working hand in hand and being able to collaborate. And I tend to really focus on communication, right? We have different life experiences. We have different native languages.

16:55We have different ways of working that make the way in which we communicate different. And so understanding that communication style, understanding the work style is really what I focus on. and, you know, being patient in terms of making sure that, you know, that relationship evolve over time. But I'll say this, I'm not a yes woman. You know, I'm somebody that you come to when you want the raw truth. And so sometimes, you know, it's, you know, sometimes it's like, okay, it's a push and pull, it's a push and pull. But at the end of the day, you know, it's something that's important in my relationship is, you know, I'll always tell the truth.

17:33I'll just tell it the way it is. And then we work towards getting it done. How do you structure your days when you walk into your role? Yeah. So there's no like the same kind of days, right? Every day is very different, especially when you're working in startups or in payments, right? And I am a leader who is fairly comfortable at like that very high level strategic level, but also very comfortable at the ground level, right? So, you know, I've mentioned I started my career as an actuary. I love numbers. That's where I'm the most comfortable. So I have no problem, you know, getting into the weeds of things and talking to the team, whether it's about, you know, reconciliation or a new tool.

18:19And I love understanding the numbers and really driving insights from the numbers. So part of my days would sometimes be just that, right? Especially in the beginning, because I really want to be able that I'm able to articulate a lot of those insights. Part of my days is spent in meetings, right, with, you know, the leadership team, the CEO, the partners that we may have. Sometimes there is regulatory involvement. Sometimes there is, you know, people in my team that I need to talk to. And then the rest of the time is really firefighting, right? There's always something interesting that's breaking somewhere and you just kind of have to jump in and try and resolve it.

19:00And because the roles are global in nature, you know, sometimes it has to be in a different language, in a different time zone, in a different country. But you just kind of, I guess it keeps things exciting. So you mentioned that you're in firefighting mode a lot. And I think that's true of a lot of operators. How do you prevent the fires? In essence, how are you working in fire prevention mode so that there's smaller fires to put out? um i'm glad you asked the question that way in terms of smaller fires because i don't think there will be a point where there's no fires right um there will always be fires but i think when i join um especially for example with with flutterway right my approach is always um i have to think about building the processes for the current fires but then also have to be very future looking and thinking about potential gaps or problems that may crystallize, right, a few months or a few years down the road as we continue to scale.

20:03And so it's this constant balance of trying to build the processes and anticipate before things become bigger problems. Obviously, you can anticipate for everything, but building the right processes, building the right controls. Because I am an actuary, I do have this risk-minded perspective, right? So I'm always is embedding controls and risk in a lot of the way in which I build my own operational processes. And it is precisely for this reason, right? So when I started with Flatowoo, like I said, I used to wake up at 1 a.m. and jump on meetings. If I was still doing that, you know, six, seven months down the road, I'd say I'd failed at my job, right?

20:42So the goal is, you know, we start with a ton of fires, we build the processes, and we put in place the right controls and risk management frameworks such that, you know, over time, you know, we get to not necessarily normal fires, but more exciting fires. Okay. And you've held several different roles. And this is one of the things that I find most fascinating about second in commands. No two titles are alike, but yet they all have the same general second in command responsibility. So talk to me about the differences in the roles that you've had, the titles, and, you know, kind of what was different about each of them.

21:24Yeah. So with Flutterwave, I was a global head of operations and treasury operations. And so that entailed everything that was related to operations and specifically merchant funds, right? So we had a B2B business, we had a retail business, all of the back end operations from settlement, dispute management, strategy, you know, like the financial operations, the treasury, even built an FX desk. I think I had this really fluid relationship with the CEO where I got to really experience. And it was also sometimes like I would say, hey, you know, we don't have XYZ. And he'll be like, well, why don't you build it?

22:05and then, you know, I'll be excited about building it. So, you know, data, I started like a data function. And so there was a lot of experiment there. With Corridor, where I was the COO, when I joined, one of the main things that I realized was really important for us to kind of build this scalable infrastructure was partnerships, for example, right? Which is not necessarily within a COO realm when people hear the title, right? But that was a big focus because if we don't have the right partners, we're not going to be able to scale. Right. And so a lot of my focus was on that. A lot of my focus was on movement of funds, treasury, lots of trading.

22:48And then that narrative in terms of being able to pitch to banking partners or partners across the world. And then with Kalisa, my role is head of finance and where I've been involved. This is a fairly recent role, but I've been really involved in the thick of finance, right? Supporting with audits, with, you know, accounting, and then also helping out with fundraise. And as I'm doing that, really building that infrastructure from a reporting perspective. And then the role probably is going to expand more into expansion and partnerships and other aspects of operations as well. But, you know, it's like you said, right, it's really different within the startup environment where, you know, you kind of have to be comfortable with expanding yourself and rolling up your sleeves and getting things done.

23:41And, you know, your title may say X, but in order for you to do X, you need to do ABC. And so it's the question is always, are you comfortable with doing those things? I think that one thing that happens often is people decide on an organizational structure before they have the company. And so they throw all of these titles out that don't make sense. But what I love is your progression. Your role in essence has been the same, but your title has been tailored to the size and scope of the organization at the time that you entered. Yes, yes. And I think that's important, right? And it goes back to that relationship with the CEO, right?

24:20There's a certain level of self-awareness and maturity in terms of where exactly we are as an organization, what are some of the skills that we already have, and what do you bring to the table as AWA, and how do you want to support and help this organization, right? And so at the end of the day, I mean, the title is going to change based on one organization to the next. But the core of it is essentially the same, right? You know, how do we ensure that this success is sustainable? And how do we go about making sure that our process as we're building them today are still going to support us in six months, in two years?

24:59What have you found to be the most interesting part of working with global operations rather than being limited to a specific country? The excitement of dealing with different regulators. That is... Spoken like a true actuary, someone who likes regulators. Okay. That's why I didn't pick that career path. No, I'm being very sarcastic. Um, it's, um, I think you, you get a lot of, um, you, you get different flavors of the same thing, right? I'm someone who tend to get bored very easily. And I think that when you're working, um, in a global setting, you know, you've got different roles. You've got, um, rules that are constantly changing, especially in emerging markets, right?

25:48It's constantly changing. There's new things. There's a lot of innovation out there, right? And I love being able to say, hey, I love what they're doing in Nigeria. How is this applicable, for example, in Brazil? Or, you know, I see the similarities between, you know, what's happening in Brazil and, you know, the French speaking countries in Africa, for example. And so that's the part that I find really exciting is being able to learn from one area and bring it into the other. And just the innovation at scale is so impressive. What's the biggest challenge been? The biggest challenge, I'd say it's a combination of people.

26:32I'd say it's a combination of people and kind of having this harmony in terms of the culture across the board. Right. Because usually when you start, you're maybe in one or two markets. And as the organization grow, you've got a bunch of people coming from different countries, different cultures, different work style. And being able to maintain that culture and that level of passion and excitement, I think, has been something that I've seen at Flutterway, for example. That's a very useful use case for me personally, but it's very different, right? is very different because culture... Of course.

27:13How do you make sure that the culture that is desired for the organization translates into all these global markets? Yeah, that's a very, very... It's an incredibly difficult thing to do as you scale, right? Because there's different things around culture. There is the culture of the country, right? And then there is the organizational cultures that people are bringing from other places, right? Which sometimes may clash because, you know, you bring someone from a big, well-established bank, for example, and they've never worked in a startup, right? So there's that clash between the people that are there and these new folks.

27:55But I think what I've seen done very well in some of the organizations where I've worked with is really this constant acknowledgement that the differences is what makes us stronger. And this constant acknowledgement that everybody has a say that is valued and everybody has an opportunity to contribute to the organization. I've been in organizations, for example, where, you know, like Flutterwave is, you know, music is such an important part of the African culture. Sometimes we start at town halls with music, you know, which is very different than what I experienced at Swiss Re, for example. But I think it's just allowing folks to be who they are and, you know, for the organization to be comfortable with that.

28:45You know, we've had things that were very, very different from that perspective. And it's the communication, right? It's really building this environment where folks are comfortable communicating, folks are comfortable, you know, speaking up. And that takes work. That takes a lot of work. And, you know, I remember when I when I started with Flutter Wave within the Nigerian culture, hierarchy is very important. Right. And so a lot of the people that I work with, for example, they were not used to this American style where, you know, you call your leader. You just joke around. You talk about different things.

29:18They just were not used to that. And so I had to be very intentional about breaking those barriers and, you know, constantly reminding everyone of that. And you have to show people that. You have to show people that when they when you have different interactions with them and they actually bring up certain things like, what do you do about it? Right. So, you know, you know what I'm saying? Like you ask people to open up, they open up and you're like, yeah, I'm just going to ignore that. That doesn't work. It doesn't build that trust. Right. So you have to be very, very intentional about that. What platforms do you utilize for your global communication?

29:54We use a lot of WhatsApp. We use a lot of Slack. We use a lot of Zoom. And then the good old get on the plane and get somewhere. And talking first. In your career, how often have you had the good fortune of being able to be face to face with your teams? Was that a regular occurrence? It is. So, you know, I have had the good fortune of traveling quite extensively around the world. So when I was at Sri Sri pre-COVID, I was constantly on the continent because I was leading Western Central Africa. So I was constantly there with Flutterwave as well. Once the world we opened after COVID, you know, I got an opportunity to travel.

30:40I would be in Lagos maybe twice a year or a little bit more. and then in other markets as well. And sometimes it's to do meetings with the team. I love to do strategy meetings with the whole operations team. Sometimes we'll do a retreat, right? Because we really have not had an opportunity to see each other at all. And so that's going back to that point about being really intentional about bringing everyone together and spending time together. That's how you get comfortable, right? And so, you know, I've been lucky to do that. How would you have structured these retreats? What would that have looked like?

31:16So the retreats, sometimes the retreats was like in a completely different town. We did this once where we flew everybody to this town for the weekend or like a long weekend. Sometimes it's more in the office, right? And usually the way would go is we would have some sort of activities, right? We would get people into groups, we would have an activity, maybe something physical, maybe like take like a personality test and understand leadership. We would have like a strategy session, which is really about explaining to everyone what the strategy and the vision of the organization and the CEO is.

31:56Sometimes the CEO will join and speak directly to the team. I am a firm believer that no matter what level someone is in the organization, the more they understand what value they bring to the table and how their work relates to the bigger picture, the better they are at what they do. And so I'll do my strategy with everyone, allow everyone to ask questions, making sure they understand. And then, you know, we have sometimes like a little bit of a party. We have, you know, it really is this mix between like physical activity, trying to like, you know, get out there and do something fun. And then, you know, some leadership courses and some really good strategy and thinking about, you know, what do we do?

32:41How do we brainstorm some of those things? What kind of team do we want to be, right? Because we're growing, right? Maybe we've brought in people from a new country, and we don't understand their culture. How do they want to interact with us, with the rest of us, right? And then finally, just having some fun. I think that fun piece is really important to to build the trust, especially in teams that are geographically diverse. When you're not together all the time, there needs to be that element of fun. So I think that's really important. Yeah, I agree. As you're working with your, you know, your teams and bringing people in for all of these startups, what does training look like across the platforms?

33:24uh training is a very very important um aspect of of startup life right i think i've had the the the lack of again starting my career in very well-structured environments right like in consulting where there is a training playbook everybody's going through that and then i went into startups where you know it's very early so there's not much and you kind of have to build it as you go. But along the way, some of the things that I've seen, either for my own personal training or what I've wanted to build with my teams is things like assigning a buddy and a mentor. You know, I think, especially in a remote environment, having someone that you can call as a buddy and say, hey, I'm looking for XYZ.

34:17I need help with that. That's so important. and then a mentor because you know sometimes you need someone else other than your manager right to be able to talk to you or you may have things that you you want to ask that's something I think that human element is important and then there's the the tools how do you use the tools there's the you know like the vocabulary of of the organization and in the industry there's the courses that you need to learn and then you know the third part of it is really just that practice Right. But I think for me, it's not just the initial onboarding training. It's also that constant training as someone kind of evolve in their careers.

34:57Right. And it's every six months or every year. How do we make sure that these we're all growing? Right. How do we make sure we're growing, whether it's with our leadership skills, whether it's with the work that we're doing, like the technical aspect of it? And that's something that I would say at Fladaway, for example, because I had such a big team. we were again very very intentional about putting these things in place. I think that there's an opportunity too for you know you mentioned a little bit developing their leadership skills there are skills that are just that will help them grow as a person regardless of what their specific career is there's a great platform invest in your leaders I can send you information on it that is a program Cameron Harold built that's 12 different modules that really just teaches some of those great leadership skills.

35:44When I was in corporate America, I had probably 30 different team members enrolled in it. And it was a really great program for them to work through. So I'll send it to you so you can check it out and see if it might be a fit for another level of training, especially as you mentioned in the startups where you don't have all the playbooks together yet, right? So you're building it kind of as you go. Yes, absolutely. And thank you for that. I think it's, you know, sometimes we make the mistake of thinking that because someone is great at their job, there'll be a great manager or a great leader. And the truth of the matter is it's a skill that you have to hone just like everything else.

36:20Right. So that's. Yeah. When let's flash forward to modern day as head of finance at Kaliza, what are you working on? So what I'm working on right now is is really very traditional finance. right, in terms of supporting with financial reporting, in terms of really digging into the drivers of revenue, of costs, in terms of, you know, how are different markets coming online or being affected by regulation affects us, for example, right? And how do we ensure that we're growing in a way that is sustainable, right? So that's what I'm working on right now. And it's a very, very new role. But it's really exciting because I think it's kind of, it's another part of my tool set, because the last few roles have been really, really focused on the operational chops.

37:16And here I'm starting more so with finance, and, you know, supporting with audits and fundraise and financial reporting and pulling in place all of these reports directly working with our engineers. So it's very exciting. What drew you to Kalitha? Yeah. So, you know, I'd say I'm at this point in my career where as I think about roles, there's a couple of things that come to mind, right? One, I do like that global aspect of it, right? I think I'd be bored if it was just like one market. So that's important to me at this point in time. The other part of it is, as I've mentioned, I'm usually coming in at a certain inflection point where, you know, the company has grown, there's a need for more structure, more governance.

38:05And I pay really keen attention to understand whether the organization and the CEO is ready for that. Sometimes the organization is, sometimes it's not, right? And for me to come in and try and do all of these things, there needs to be that understanding that the organization is ready. And that's something that I felt Ezra, the CEO, was absolutely ready for, the rest of the team was ready for. I love the mission. I'm really excited about Stablecoin. I think it's going to have such a great impact in payments, especially in emerging markets. And I was excited to dive into newer markets, right? I've done Africa for a very long time.

38:43I was excited to, you know, dive into Brazil and Mexico and, you know, brush up on my Spanish skills, I guess. That's got to be challenging in and of itself to be able to communicate in all of the different languages too? Well, I mean, I am fluent in French. So when I operate in certain markets where, you know, there's French that comes up, it's very easy. I think Spanish, I've taken quite a number of classes, but I'm not fluent, right? I can read, but I can't really like speak like that. But it's a new challenge. It's something that, you know, just like everything else, I'm excited to learn and, you know, get more familiar with.

39:22And I mean, it's not required, you know, the organization language is English and everyone speaks English. I'm just a nosy person and I like to know what everybody's saying. So. Well, and back to your point, if you want people to feel comfortable and feel like you're understanding them. Right. What a better way than to put yourself in a situation where you need to learn versus making them always be the one that has to switch from their native. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's part of my approach, right? It's part of my approach and the humility to understand that you don't know everything and to be very open with that, right?

39:58And to also understand that you can learn. It's an exchange, right? You can learn from other people, they can learn from you. And so that to me is a great opportunity to, you know, beyond the professional aspect, learn a new language. What have been some of the most interesting experiences you've had in your career as the second in command?

40:21I'd say building a team with Flutterwave was one of the highlights of my career, right? I think when I joined the team, I was really excited about, like I said, the real impact that an organization like Flutterwave has, right? So Flutterwave is a payment infrastructure company. If you think about the reasons why people send money home, you know, maybe even from the diaspora home, it's because maybe someone is sick, someone needs to go to school, they're taking care of their children. So the impact is really there. And we were able to build this organization to become the most valuable startup in Africa because of that tight team culture.

41:07Right. And so for me, it was so important that the team would grow right beyond just the professional aspects. And we were growing and the leadership aspect of it and becoming more global, not just like from within the different countries where there were. And so I really, really like that as a highlight of one of my experiences. The other thing I'd say, I mean, we've had instances where, you know, the regulatory environment was changing so much and so drastically. In one country that I will not name, for example, you know, every Friday, there was a period of time where every Friday we had a new circular from the regulator.

41:49And so those were periods of, let me just say war, where you really build some of your leadership chops from those experiences, right? And so, again, I've mentioned I've had an opportunity to travel across and learn from the different people's culture. You know, you go to a new country and your teammates and your colleagues take you out and they show you different things and they teach you words and everything like that. So it's, you know, yeah. So if we think back to where Awa was when you were a young girl growing up, did you ever think that this is where you'd be sitting today? No, no. That's a very interesting question.

42:33Absolutely not. You know, I grew up in a very modest family in Ivory Coast, like I said. I always knew I wanted to travel, always. And, you know, I used to read a lot. I used to read a lot because it was a way for me to escape. It was a way for me to like imagine these new countries and towns and cities. And so the minute I had an opportunity to travel, you know, I was out. Right. And it is because, you know, I think my ancestors were nomad. And so I just love to be out there in the world and learn and, you know, eat different food and learn about different culture. And then I'd say I've also kept a very open mind when it came to my career.

43:19Right. You know, like I said, I took this role from Swiss Re and it was going to be in South Africa. But then I ended up living in Zurich and I moved to Switzerland. I'd never even been there before. So I've really kept this adventurous aspect of, you know, I'm just going to go out, figure it out and learn and get excited about it. And that's probably what landed me here. But I'm not in my wildest dreams, no. What has been your favorite country that you've had the opportunity to visit? That's very interesting. I wouldn't say I have a favorite country. I'd say I have probably like top three or four.

44:02And Namibia is up there in terms of one of the most unique places I've ever been to. just because of the landscape. It doesn't even look like, you know, the rest of the world. I don't know if you've ever been there, but, you know, they have these orange deserts, the town where the desert meets the sea. Just the sunset is so beautiful. The safari there was just incredible. Madagascar as well was very, very unique. We took a very like challenging trip, like a road trip. Okay. You know, but it was challenging, but it was just so beautiful, you know, in terms of the uniqueness of the landscape and the animals that you see there.

44:45So I really enjoyed Madagascar. And then I love Iceland. I mean, I, you know, as you can kind of tell, I'm really into like nature and like getting out there off the beaten path. So I really liked Iceland and Peru. Well, that's quite a bouquet of different experiences, which is really great. And I understand why you can't pick one, but that's, that's really good for you. And as you continue to explore your global operational careers, I hope you get to check more places off your list. Fantastic. I hope so too. Awa, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today. I wish you so much success and And good luck with all of your startups.

45:29And just enjoy the moment. Thank you so much, Lindsay. It was such a great moment to have this conversation with you. And I really appreciate being here. Oh, you too.