Lovevery: How Jessica Rolph built $800m giant after $300m Danone exit in <10 years

28:37Thank you for helping us be better. how important was nps you know at happy family for example is that something you really focused on we did not you know can i be totally honest i had no idea what the letters n p or s stood for um at happy family so that was not on our radar i think that it's also something that was a little bit more distant because we were selling to retailers who were then selling to the end customer so we didn't have this direct personal relationship with our customer um rod morris my co-founder instituted MPS tracking in this company at Lovevery and I'm so grateful to him I think it was a very good move and we we started early and we've continued to track throughout the course of the business and it's very helpful to see that you know make sure that you are doing well with your customers it's it's a very important metric.

29:27Before we move on to some more details around Lovevery so with Happy Family how did the journey end and what was a particular highlight and if if you're willing to share low light from that journey? Yeah, I mean, the highlight was just, I think I would do power, I did a lot of power posing at Happy Family. I did a lot of like, what I desire is on its way. I believe in myself. We had to do a lot of that because it was really, really hard to build that company from scratch. We did not, my co-founder and I did not know what we were doing. And we learned a ton along the way and we felt like we had momentum in a lot of important places, but it took a while for us to get to that product market fit, as I said.

30:06What really started to scale was our puff snacks and our yogurt melts and our pouches. Those started to really take off. And that's when we found flow. But we had so many challenges. Being able to imagine the impossible, that you're going to sell a company for hundreds of millions of dollars that you started from scratch, from nothing. I would go to sleep every night dreaming that we were gonna be a global company, that we were gonna be in service to young families that needed the better food alternatives to feel that, to feel, to go in a park and see our shape of puffs crushed in the, in the playground was so rewarding.

30:46We sold the business. We got it to 72, sorry, 60, 63 million in revenue and sold it for a large multiple. It was really exciting for us. It was incredible. It was amazing. I would say that felt like we did the impossible. It just, it's almost surreal. The hard part I would say was my relationship with my co-founder emotionally was, was hard. I struggled personally with that. I think co-founder relationships can be, you know, amazing and they can be the best and they can also be the hardest. and so that was hard for me to feel just work through a lot of the feelings that come with working through a partnership so I say that that's the that was the the low light the highlight was is what we created together I just have so much appreciation and admiration for what we built together so what did you learn from your experience about co-founding because I'm listening to the story of your first co-founder one meeting obviously I mean goes without saying but I'll say it but it's so obvious to listeners you're obviously both brilliant and at the very least capable uh obviously I appreciate not everyone has to be brilliant to be an entrepreneur sometimes you're just like more resilient than everyone else but you're clearly both exceptionally capable usually people wouldn't advise people to start a company the way that you described how you just you started it because trust and you need it's a relationship right and you but it's more complicated than most relationships because you can get out of most relationships quite easily so it's really most akin to a marriage where getting out of it is extremely complicated and so a lot of people just carry on what did you learn from the experience of how you chose your co-founder and how you kept the relationship going through thick and thin that helped you decide what the right framing was for a co-founder once again in a new company rather than just going alone?

32:45Yeah, well, I fundamentally believe in co-founder relationships. So I could not have done, first of all, the happy family was my co-founder's idea. So there was no way that that business would have been what it was without her. And then I would say us together, we really had a lot of strengths as co-founders and as partners. And I would say that it's so hard to decide to take that leap of faith to partner with someone. So I was really grateful that my co-founder of my first company was up for doing this with me. She took a bet on me. And I would say what got us through was just humor and the fact that she was very loyal to me financially.

33:29and you know we we had a lot of kind of we had some core loyalty there um and i we decided to be 49 51 partnership so i was the 49 she was the 51 my title was coo her title is ceo and uh and it was she did not want to think about um us as necessarily co-founders she wanted to be the founder. And then my role was COO. And so as the business scaled and became more successful, I would say that for me, my ego started, maybe I've wanted more credit, I wanted some credit for from an outward perspective, she was very much the outward face of the company. And I wanted to be more acknowledged, I would say.

34:17And it's hard to look at yourself and say, gosh, like, I wish I didn't have this ego. I wish I didn't care. But I did want to be mentioned. I did want to be included at times when I wasn't. And it became hard to look at myself and to realize that and then also to ask for support there and have it be a challenging question to ask. And so I would say when I went into my co-founder relationship with Rod, Rod and I have known each other for over two decades. He's married to my very best friend from growing up. And so I just have so much trust with Rod. And when we began, I said, we decided we should definitely be 50-50 partners.

35:00Because when you come up with an idea, that's so important. And it's also so important to honor the creation of that, bringing that idea to life. And really, when I think about co-founders, it's usually, it has to be a consensus anyway. You can't really say, I'm going to pull my one person, you know, I'm going to pull my 51 hat or card and just say, we're not going to do this, or we're going to do this. That just creates such dissent. And it really erodes what you're building together. And so it really always, whatever partnership it is, it usually shows up as 50-50 anyway. And that comes, some people give you advice and say, don't do that.

35:42Don't, have, you know, somebody needs to call it, somebody needs to have a vote, a final vote. But I think that it's the process of working together and really working out those debating and, and, and struggling together to figure out what's best for the company is where the beauty can come and where you can really build something successful. So with Rod, we, we decided to create the company 5050. And we really work to honor each other, I really am now I know how hard it is to be a number too and so I take that with every interview that I do I've worked to honor him and mention him and think about him as my co-founder because we really co-created Love Every together.

36:20It is amazing the self-awareness that you clearly have like it is uncomfortable to talk about I have an ego I also have this conversation with people and I think it's really really healthy be because I think um usually the front person is the person everyone assumes has an ego but everyone has an ego and it's so fascinating because you know it's almost like it's possible to do yourself a disservice by not admitting you have an ego um and although we'd all love to be Buddha atop a snowy mountain zenned out all the time it's just not practical and when you've created something and put a lot of effort in and you want to be seen it's actually really normal and I think it's really healthy for you to admit that publicly because in every relationship pretty much in business there's co-founders but it's not however hard you try it's super hard for to be evenly distributed in the awareness side 50-50 maybe in shareholding but one will always take the lead I think and actually sometimes that is still better as well you know otherwise a lot of like competing voices and noises so there's probably like half our listeners who are that person and can relate to the challenge as well and actually your point is you know you just want some recognition not none um I also really relate to your point on 51-49 versus 50-50 that's absurd um pulling weight on all decisions because it's 51 is it makes no logical sense there are some some decisions it makes more sense for you to have anyway thank you for sharing that um last question on that before we move on then so i read your notes on you said something along the lines of it was very hard being a second time founder and raising money how much stigma i know this is like a weird question because obviously on one side it's like look I appreciate no one's getting their little fiddle out for me now that I've made millions and I'm a successful entrepreneur and I'm going again but is that kind of a weird reality like it's very easy for people to feel sympathy for your problems when you don't have money yet when you have money that's like the one taboo that is impossible for anyone to try and understand that you're still a human being with emotions around and so people just don't bother they just skip that part because they're like well she's rich so who cares so the main thing that I'm trying to get to is a why start another company instead of just relax enjoy parenting enjoy your youth don't stress and two can you talk to us a little bit about why you think it was actually hard to raise money and start the second time?

39:11Yeah. I mean, the first one is just this company is just, I love everything we're doing with this company. It's just coming from such a deep sense of wanting to give. And I just want to give parents this experience, I believe so strongly in the early years as being so important for development and felt like I had had this experience with my own children and just really wanted to share it in a meaningful way. So it's coming from a very core place. And my husband would ask the question, are you sure we want to do this again? So if it was a financial answer, that's not what this company is about for us.

39:50It's very much a purpose and life purpose question. I would say the second thing is as related to identity, if you have a company, you've been successful, it's almost, or you've just been successful at anything. Let's say like You're a really good attorney and you're a partner at a firm and you're wondering about starting a business and wanting to do something different. It is very vulnerable to imagine failure when you've already had success. And that's just such a human thing, right? It's almost when you don't have anything to lose, you just try it, see what happens. But when you've had some success, it grips you a little bit more in your sense of self.

40:29And so for me, raising money the second time and going back to investors who've gotten a 20 times their return on the first company and seeing doubt in their eyes and having them wonder, did she just get really lucky the first time or does she really have it? Could she really make something of this new company? I don't, you know, nobody really understands the depths of your business model. They're really betting on you. And so to see them turn us away and say, nah, I did really good the first time. I'm going to just, you know, I'm going to skip the second company. I think she got lucky is where I think, you know, our minds go in assuming that that's what they're thinking.

41:09That's hard. That's vulnerable. But I think that then if you have that deep purpose and you really care about something, then you just overcome and you just keep pursuing your, you know, you just go to get the next yes or no. I mean, you do the normal fundraising process. But there is something a little bit emotional about if Love Every had been a failure, it would have almost tainted the whole happy family experience. Oh, she just got really lucky. Right. You know, how much of how much of what you said, how much of it actually being hard to raise is based on direct feedback you had versus like assumptions you're making?

41:44So I tell you my assumption. It was not what you said. Right. And that's why I'm challenging it. I'm so curious. my assumption is um people like VCs especially sometimes struggle to invest in second time founders because the hunger isn't quite there like there's a lot to be said for you having to make it work like you're all in it's your first company or your second or your third but you haven't made it yet and the hunger is there and you've got some experience and you just need to win. I've got some VC friends and they've explained to me there is that reality. People try not to be judgmental, but bias comes out in all sorts of unconscious and practical ways.

42:26And that's one of them, right? Is this person going to need it enough, want it enough to make a huge company? So how much of that do you think was a factor or do you think it was all based on what you said? So the question, I think that's very interesting. The question that we were asking was we raised from a lot of individuals at Happy Family. We actually had no institutional capital in that business. So it was all just people that we met along the way and people who knew people. And so there were individual decisions being made. Now, there's all sorts of reasons why somebody might invest or might not invest.

43:02And that gets down to the emotional part of fundraising, right? That there is like an emotional current of belief in yourself and belief in what you're bringing to the world, even though it isn't anything that anybody can see, touch, experience, feel yet. It's an idea. And so it's very vulnerable to have a company in your mind or in prototypes or some kind of version, but it's not what you ultimately are going to create. One day you might feel great about it. The other day you might not, depending on what somebody said about it. It's not out in the world yet. So it's not, doesn't have its own energy.

43:36I think this question of whether VCs, you know, the hunger in the first time, a second time, third time entrepreneurs, I think is a really interesting question. I think that you can see the hunger in someone when they're really building something out of a deep purpose and they're just care so much. And I care so much about this company. And we do, we all do here. And so we're doing this out of just a real sense of self and wanting to give back to parents and be a part of modern parenthood and helping children reach their best potential. So I think that institutional investors in Love Avery have seen that passion in me and in Rod and in our team.

44:18And they know that this is something that we are not going to stop until it's the best, biggest expression possible. Did you have to do an earn out? How long did you spend in between each companies like ending the last, starting the new? Take us a bit through the transition period in your life from ending one journey and starting a new one. Yeah, That's a great question. So Shazi and I each sold 40 % of our ownership and happy family when we sold the company and then we signed on for a three year earn out. And I stayed an extra six months because Shazi was having another baby and so wanted to cover for her there.

44:54And so that three years was a hard time. It was adjusting to being owned by another company and having the priorities that I believe for the business being different from what maybe the other company felt. And it wasn't in any sort of philosophical way. It was just more day to day. Like I had to make sure I responded to all the emails from Danone before I responded to my team. Right. It's like because I was trying to build trust with them. And that was hard for me to balance that after really. feeling so independent for so long. And then over time, you realize like, we have such a capable team that the team had it, and then you start to become irrelevant, but you're still supposed to be there.

45:35And I just so I would go through waves of that was what I created the climate co created the climate collaborative and really trying to still give back to the company and give back in ways that were, you know, ways that felt entrepreneurial or fresh or new. But the team was really taking the reins and you start to feel like you're not useful anymore, but you still need to be there. And that feeling can actually harm your self-esteem, I think, in a way, right? Like you just don't feel as capable. You're like, well, like they don't need me anymore. There's a grappling with that feeling too, right?

46:14Where you're like, I'm not needed. Wait, I built this. Like I'm not needed. Yeah, you're not needed. You're not adding a whole lot of value. But then the three years needed to be there. I think also meeting the financial threshold to sell the remaining 60 % was not easy. So we wanted to just get back to the same share price as what our investors got paid out and what we had gotten paid out for the 40%. We went from wanting to kill it on some kind of earn out potential to like, let's just get to baseline. and that was a good price for the business and that was sweaty at times meeting that threshold, but we did it.

46:58We got there. Moving into Love Every. So what was the period that you had between? So you finished, done your three years, you've got your exit, big holidays, fancy cars? Like, did you treat yourself? Like, did anything exciting happen? No, I just, I had, well, I had my third child who I have my B who I just adore all my children. So I was so, you know, excited to have had, um, be in 2015. And, um, I think, you know, I definitely in new years when, when it was the last sort of day for me to be, I celebrated with my husband, you know, just, uh, it's like, okay, I'm going to honor my future. But I think for me, it was really about building my self-esteem and thinking about the future for love every, and like believing in myself as somebody that I can hold a vision and accomplish that vision.

47:47I think my co-founder before really was the vision keeper. She was the inspiring one. She was the one that, and I was the doer, the COO, the operational person. And so for me, building up my sense of self as a person who can manifest an idea to life and appreciate myself for that. I did that all the time at Happy Family, but that wasn't my identity, if that makes sense. so now just being able to kind of believe in myself I think feel like that so I did but no holidays no I and my husband got a Tesla um we we um so that was exciting yeah but and then and then we we've recently moved so you know it's sort of like growing into um new space for our family but I would say there was um it was a lot more about getting really excited about building love Every was sort of that transition time I whirled right in to Love Every right after Happy Family.

48:46So talk to me about starting Love Every. Like did you go straight to investors? Like how much did you put in to start with? Like how does the practical side of starting a business in a very different way feel? Because this time you knew how to start, build, sell, exit, the whole thing. and most first-time founders don't get the full experience in one go so you have unique experience like broadly speaking and now you're ready to go again so how did you look to practically start it yeah so we so we did put in some of our own money rod and i decided to partner we that was the biggest thing was just securing that partnership with rod was the most important he had so many other options of what he could do with his next steps in his career and he chose to work with me So I was really excited about that.

49:36What was his deal? Who is like, what's his career? Yeah, he had been working at Opower, which is a recurring revenue company that's all about helping people save energy. And so it was a mission-driven company based in DC, had two exceptional founders that built that company. And he was on the executive team. He wrote the S1 for going public, but he wasn't a founder. So he was hungry. He wanted the founder experience. And he built the company from just 10 million in revenue up to over a billion dollar IPO. But I think that he was craving something, building something himself from the beginning.

50:14And I was hungry because I had not had my vision come. I had never experienced a vision that I had from the beginning come to life. And I felt so passionate about Love Every. And so we came together and each invested a few hundred thousand dollars. and we started just legal expenses, figuring out, we wanted to build, we actually thought, we tested building an app, a parenting app. I was really excited about doing this like kit experience, but we were testing that and we were wondering if there was a digital component to it as well. We started building our first product, figuring out manufacturing.

50:54So yeah, we were just both in our apartments or our houses, sorry, our houses with, you know, just thinking about building the company together and we would just meet. And then we soon decided that we wanted to raise outside capital. And I think that's a question. I knew that I didn't have enough capital to bring this second company all the way. And there is something kind of magical about taking in investor money because you do learn. It's a test of yourself, your vision, what you're putting forward. You then build a community around you that's all wanting you to succeed, whether that's individuals and angels or institutionals later, I think that you can become a little self-referencing if you finance it yourself.

51:40It also can be really exciting and you can have an even bigger win at the end. But again, for me, it wasn't quite as much about the financial big win at the end. It was more about the experience of building a company. And so we feel really grateful for our investors and our board members. And so, yeah, so we went to go raise that first angel financing round and started working prototype for a play gym. And yeah, surely that was easy. As in the first angel round, at the very least, the angel round, I mean, it came faster than than happy family, for sure. But I'm telling you, there were people that said no, and I was like, what?

52:17I you it's always happens that way. You always meet where you're like this person, I'm sure this person will invest because they have the capital they know me they and you know you can never tell you never know that's the the the the journey of fundraising is so can be so surprising at times and you really just have to continue to believe in yourself they go on the list jessica it's a little naughty list somewhere there might be a few i i mean i'm i i i i can present as very um warm and caring, which I am. And I'm also very competitive. Good. That is a perfect question. I can't help it. No, that's great.

52:58That's a perfect question for leading up to my next one. Who are you more competitive with? Other brands that you admire, and you think that you could be doing as well as them, etc, etc. Or you in your last business, and where you got it to, and you know, the things you're doing differently this time? I would say that we've surpassed the success of the last company. So I feel like I'm standing on the shoulders of all the experience I had. And Rod and I have a much bigger vision for Love Every. So that felt like even from the early days, our vision was bigger than where we kind of had where I had ended at Happy Family.

53:35I would say for competitiveness and thinking about other companies in the space, we have really built something unique. And I think that it's hard when you build something unique. You really do need to grab market share and you need to expand internationally and you need to invest and make sure that your marketing platforms are really giving that beautiful product its best foot forward into competing. and your best bet to build a competitive moat is to get distribution and get customer love and we have so much love from our customers which fuels us. Just now I think we're starting to see some people sort of picking away at some of the way that we approach books for example or even the stage-based learning.

54:22We have some competitors in different parts of the world and we're tracking that but I think that for us it's about staying really focused on what makes what we are doing next our pipeline and how we can really listen to our customers and continue to co-create with them that is really the magic of love every is being able to listen to our customers and and learn and do better even better than i think what we put out at first because as i said the the product development process is not done when you launch a product it continues after you launch so um in terms of like value creation and I've obviously, I'm sure you would agree, but I'll put words in your mouth.

54:59Your last valuation was$800 million, right? So almost a unicorn. And not many businesses in the world that have achieved such dizzying heights of valuations, value creation, et cetera. I guess, how do you feel with that pressure almost to deliver? Because what I would say is it still sounds like a very different, it's a different journey, right? your last business you exited for six you had 67 million dollars of revenue you were saying and you obviously had a really great exit but um i'm assuming you didn't raise over 100 million dollars with 67 million dollars of revenue otherwise much more stressful stressful exit times so there's just this like you said you're competitive i'm trying to get to the crux of like how competitive are you with yourself as well right because when you raise 100 million dollars at$800 million valuation, you're really, you know, you're really pushing your vision, right?

55:53You're really pushing yourself to go and do great big things. And I guess my question is, do you see that as that last funding round? Do you see that there's like multiple funding rounds to come? Like how big do you see this getting and how big does it need to be? Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I think it needs to be, I think we need to serve children globally in early childhood. There is so much white space. There is so much need. And no company is really partnering with parents to help them feel confident every step of the way of their child's development. And so we now cover birth to age five.

56:28We're expanding those age bands. There are so many more ways that our customers are telling us that they want our partnership and our help with parenting and feeling like they're giving their child the very best start. So since children are children everywhere, we have a global opportunity. And since early childhood, really this concept of human potential is maybe one of the most important concepts that we can think about as people is where is our next generation being invested in and where are they going to take the world? That feels really important and feels really big. And then I think about, as far as a company goes from a business model perspective, we continue to have a core of this co-creation with our customers.

57:11We have core love. We have financial, the retention metrics are incredibly strong, best in class. We have a really good business. And so I would say that when I dream at night of Love Every, I am pushing myself harder to dream bigger. So think about multi-generational companies that are in service to a need. That is the vision that we think about for Love Every. And I think about expanding access to Love Every to children in the U.S. who are on public assistance. We think about how we can expand to all children. We think about how we can expand up to different ages. Again, think about different geographies.

57:56so it feels like there's a ton of headroom for us to go and grow and um i think for the from the next stage of the business ipo is is is one of the things that we're considering we would consider that maybe in 2025 or a little bit beyond when the markets change and when our business has grown a little bit i think for us it's about being patient with you know if you look at lego as a company. We just love Lego. We have a lot of Lego in our home. Or you look at some of these, you know, I think about that because it's in our space and it's a platform. And there's so much that can be done with those bricks.

58:34And there's so much brain growth and development that can happen. That company took a long time to get to where it is. It's been three generations. And so I think sometimes when you build a company, you launch it, you know, we launched an early learning program just five years ago as of this week. And so you get impatient. You're like, wait, it should be bigger. It should be bigger now. And I think that for me, it's about adjusting those expectations and saying, we're building it the right way. We're building it, you know, one step at a time. And we're not trying to get too taken by the pressure that financial markets can give you or the pressure that investors can give you.

59:07And we have great patient investors. They've been wonderful and happy with our growth. But, you know, if you grow 20 to 25 % year over year for you know 15 years that can really add up and so I think that that's the sort of mindset that I think we're thinking about and trying to make sure that our everything we do is purpose purposeful that there's a point and there's a reason why we're doing what we're doing for families for children amazing what's your biggest challenge personally um well a few things come to mind one is just continuing to um just evolve as the company evolves I really want to make sure that that I am of service to this company in all of its stages.

59:47And so that means growth in certain areas, I need to, you know, I, there's certain areas where I need to just start to accept, I think structure and accept the inevitable if it's from a legal perspective, or from an HR perspective, or whatever, you know, you have to evolve yourself with the company. From a personal standpoint, I think it's just being, you know, grateful and present and balancing my roles in life. So I'm a daughter. As we talked about, I'm very close to my parents. I want to be a good wife to my husband. I adore my husband. And it's hard being married to me. I have multiple companies and I've got an engine and it's running.

1:00:26And so I think that that can take up a lot of space in the family. Being a present mom, I just adore my children and I want them to know how important they are and finding time with all three of them. The more you have, the you have your love grows but your time doesn't and so it's um it's a balance i think and then and then my love for this company and i wake up in the morning every morning thinking about love every so it was just very passionate about what we're building here and balancing that with all these other roles how have you found the ability to balance that and i guess i am i'm really curious because people ask this question a lot and it's quite triggering and annoying question sometimes because it's like i just do but uh that's a lot i'm just wondering if you actually do have a very rigid schedule, for example, or something that we can learn from when we have many plates spinning like that?

1:01:15Yeah, well, I don't know that I'm, you'd have to ask my children and everybody else in my life how well I'm doing. But I would say that for me, I it's about what I'm not doing. So I, I love also, so it was endless, like I could, I could make the kids a great meal tonight, I could, I could make sure that their cubbies are organized, I could, you know, run, like, things could be tidy and, and we don't have a tidy home and we, I don't make, you know, we, we sort of scrambled together the dinners often. And we have a, we have a nanny who's very helpful and feels so grateful to her and she helps us a lot.

1:01:50Um, but I wish I was doing it myself. Like if I was doing it myself, I would have put, I would have changed, you know, that their lunches would look slightly differently. Their, the meal wouldn't look quite like, it's like you just, as a mom, often you want to do it all. You just want to own it all. You want to control it all because you care so much and you love so much. And so it is about letting go of some of those things. So, you know, letting go of having, you know, shopping for my daughter's clothes or, you know, making sure that she's got, you know, the right size underwear or whatever it is.

1:02:18Like I just, I kind of do let go of some of those things and that's hard to compromise. But I think in the not doing, you're also creating space. And then friendships, you know, are hard to balance at this stage. I would love to spend more time with friends. But so if I rank order my, you know, children and my parents who are getting a little bit older and my husband, you know, it's just like so hard to be everything to everyone. And then the CEO role. So trying to trying to balance it, but there is you do have to kind of accept that there's some things that you just aren't going to be able to do your way.

1:02:55I really relate to a lot of that. And I guess conscious of your time because you know all the things and you added an interview on secret leaders so question that I'd love to end with and I'd love your perspective on what lessons do you try to pass on or teach other entrepreneurs that you know helped you on your journey what is something that you could really pass on based on your experience yeah I would say just don't let customers become numbers. Don't get too up in your head about all of the sort of fancier parts of business, the things that sound good. Get really gritty and real about what it is that you're making, creating, the service you're providing.

1:03:36Make sure, test it with your customers. Get really gritty about that testing experience. The other morning, we were having some questions on conversion. I just woke up kind of six in the morning on a Sunday and I was like, I got to just buy our product. I got to go through the flow and record it and make sure on my phone that it's working and then somebody else's like, just stay really close to the customer and stay really connected to what you're building and the why and how that's helping the person that's receiving it. Amazing. Jessica, thank you so much for your time. I know it's limited. We're really grateful to have your insights.

1:04:10And to anyone that has a kid who hasn't yet experienced Love Every, please do give it a go. It's beautiful, beautiful product and experience and I think I heard you say um what already read in your notes you know that you've got two stakeholders really the parent and the child so you're always having to think about those two things from NPS from retention and everything else and I strongly relate my daughter is you know not fully saying loads of words just yet but I'm sure if she could communicate she would express the same as I do which is fucking great oh Dan thank you so much it was wonderful being with you Awesome.

1:04:45Thank you, Jessica. Thank you.

1:05:14podcast, Will Stollerman. See you next time.