Shrek with Jen Cownie

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1:23that you've got to love with your whole heart and fight with your whole heart and on one occasion violate the rules of a nude bathhouse with your whole heart. Okay, on with the show.

1:39Hello and welcome to Magical Garbage, the podcast where we hoofed and we poofed and we signed an eviction notice. My name is Caroline and I'm here till Thursday to try the veal and it's five shillings for the possessed toy it's Jen Coney. Wheeee!

1:56It's Shrek and everybody loves Shrek. Everybody loves Shrek and such a rich tapestry to choose your intro from. Every single line of this film eminently quotable. Much like Parfait. Much like Parfait! Everyone loves Shrek's it's the most delicious movie in the whole world. It's the most delicious movie in the whole world even though no one knows what parfait is yeah that is the one thing that it hasn't like like like so many careers have lived and died because of shrek for example um the guys who did the opening song i imagine are still touring that song i mean obviously still forever you know in a hundred years when everyone's forgotten who the counting crows are they'll remember accidentally in love from the opening i already do i already don't know but no one will ever learn no one will ever learn what parfait is It's a layered dessert, Caroline.

2:46We Googled it last night, and this morning I made myself one for breakfast, sort of. It's not even the first time I've had a Google parfait. It just goes out of my head. It will just slip away. It's not important enough. It changed cinema. It changed. It did change cinema. In fact... It changed cinema. You're saying it like it's a joke, but two of our episodes ago, though I know it's many episodes in real life, we talked about Lord of the Rings which must be like literally a pair of Shrek if it's 2000, 2001 like they must come out at the same time vastly different levels of CGI and yet both changed cinema forever together hand in hand Shrek and Lord of the Rings Peter Jackson and whoever directed this yeah that guy that guy I want to say it's like Adam Adamson or something it's like a double name something yes no totally because I'm you know I've spoken about we've spoken about Lord of the Rings a lot on this podcast but in the episode itself and also you know around it about like how you know fantasy storytelling changed forever when Lord of the Rings came along because low-budget fantasy was no longer a viable option in the exact same way animated fairy tale stories were changed forever when Shrek came along because it's sort of I don't know first of all the look and feel of it was completely different it was the first sort of like CGI animated movie and now we see that as like a scourge on humanity and we'll get to that in a minute we really do yeah there was a time where can you remember this animated films felt old and lame yeah yeah because obviously toy story came along well before shrek right yeah and the toy story i would say still had very much the disney sensibility yeah very wasn't necessarily fairy tale but like had a had a kind of a gentleness and a whimsy to it and it was very much um in respect of the childhood experience and like yeah very precious about precious about preciousness like I love Toy Story but it's like it keeps many things holy it does it does and I think it didn't I think Shrek was the first time the two streams of fairy tale and CGI were truly crossed yeah I'm sure there was like a shit like Barbie is sleeping beauty CGI in the late 90s but it's the first time.

5:02Oh no, people write in about Barbie as CGI as Stephen B.D. all the time. Okay. People are obsessed with it and I will never cover it. Well, I'm so sorry for just denigrating it online. I've never seen it. Like that's... Yeah, yeah. I assume it was very formative but not for me. But I feel like this was the first time in like a mainstream way we got fairy tale lifted out of an animated 2D world. Yes. Pretty much. I can't think of it. There were no Disney films that predate this for that and it would just be smaller franchises. Yes, totally. It's something big and important. The very act of doing that, the act of, like, lifting fairy tales out of its, like, hand-drawn form or whatever, it kind of, like, subverted it and satirised it and, like, yeah, and...

5:49I think it was necessary, if I'm honest. Like, there are, like, do I think the legacy of Shrek is always good? No. There's some real honkers that come after this one. real tootin' bad bitches. Real tootin' bad bitches. I don't know what I just said. My apologies. No, for total transparency, I feel like we're coming in like a pair of drunk drivers into this episode and it's because, first of all, we're on holiday. When are we not on holiday? When are we not on holidays together? And second of all, we've had half a glass of wine. We have, yes. Which I think is completely par for the course, actually.

6:25Really a flashback to last year when we did this all the time. But genuinely, I think in the tradition of fairy tale, and this is the podcast within a podcast, the Russian doll of podcasts, the fairy tale trilogy within Magical Garbage. Last time we talked about the Princess Bride and about the fairy tale tradition and the oral tradition and how the whole point of that is that no one owns the story and that every generation gets to tell it anew. And I think probably what Shrek was doing was actually slightly like breaking the chains on and the monopoly on fairy tale that Disney had begun to hold, which was very earnest, very child-friendly, very kind of po-faced and very kind of like quite morality tales, which fairy tales shouldn't be.

7:08It should be kind of gross and it should be kind of dirty and there should ideally be fart jokes in a fairy tale, I think. And I think Shrek kind of got back the soul of fairy tale, albeit in some uncanny valley CGI nonsense. Yes, yeah, yeah. You're right, getting back the soul of it is right Because, like, yeah, the fairy tales as an idea of being kind of, everyone always talks about the original versions being sort of grimmer and more violent and messier. And, like, you kind of mentioned while we were watching Chaucer and you were sort of... Oh, yeah. I love that you're my friend who can just unpretentiously quote Chaucer when we're watching Shrek.

7:42It's very nice. It's very, like, good for my health. About, like, how these are, like, I'm not saying that Chaucer is a fairy tale, but they have things in common that, like, you know, it's like bawdy and freaky and like for like for weirdos for weirdos that's the thing i think i think joseph feels like broccoli but it's actually potatoes you know what i mean like he's actually delicious and he's just there being like a fart in the face you know like he fully it's just going there so very much in that tradition that i think a reclamation of the gross side of fairy tales and there's so much grossness in fairy tales as there should be and so much grossness in shrek and like so much and the joyous grossness like that opening scene it's bawdy it's bawdy in like the shakespearean sense it's so it is and it's like it sets out its stall so early tell a fairy tale it's like the beauty and the beast opening with the book like you know it literally is a piss take of like oh the beautiful beautiful beautiful young man princess in the tower we have the beautiful score starting oh it's so lovely and that's the thing as well so you you begin shrek and you open on that beautiful score that's very similar to maybe a lord of the ring score or a um princess bride score a mark knopfler score you have the yes a fluting female voice that's so great and you have the kind of beautifully hand-drawn animated opening of the book and and all that stuff and it's almost like the movie's way of showing you we could do it if we wanted and we could do it really well we have the music right here we have the animators right here we're choosing not to and then you have that thing of like shrek terry at the page and wiping his arms with it and then coming out of his outhouse and then you have the iconic music of somebody once told me it's so good it is one of the most iconic fucking openings so good like i don't remember seeing it for the first time and i would have been still quite young as were you but i think if you were a parent and you've taken your kid to the cinema yeah like what would it have felt like it would either have been the greatest really like for my dad if he was there he'd have been like thank you already we're talking about poo um immediately and then shrek does his shower which is just poo it's just poo he showers and shit and he's just like presumably that is the effluent from the outhouse that he's taking a shower in oh my god i hadn't even thought of plumbing in the swamp but you thought of it all there's no plumbing in the swamp it's all a giant composting toilet and that's where he lives shrek canonically stinks like it we know it from donkey he smells bad and that's okay but i feel like i imagine there were some parents who were like clutching their pearls in that moment who hadn't really fully prepared themselves and i love that shrek was just like oh yeah yuck yucky yucky yucky it's a yucky movie for yucky boys and yucky girls it's morons that later it teaches yucky boys and yucky girls that they can find love and the love they find with each other is the purest of all the purest of all and it's true love it's so good I feel like yesterday when we decided well we decided some weeks ago we were going to watch it yesterday we decided we were going to watch it that day and you were quite worried you were like I'm just not sure I'm going to like it the same and I was like no, no Caroline you're going to love it do you know what I think where that was coming from first of all I think there's been like I don't know how sort of capital I internet all of my listeners are what's capital I internet you know those deep crusty memes that kind of make no sense and the shit postiness that's like you might see kind of a meme where Shrek inexplicably has tits and I would laugh and I would share it Yeah, exactly.

11:36You know, there's a kind of like, there's a deep, in the same way that like... Going back to the source material, have you gone so far from it with the memes that can't you actually go back to its pure form? I've seen thousands of like grainy, weird Shrek memes that are kind of, actually in the spirit of Shrek itself, just kind of like a disgusting break from what is a beautiful and pure and white and pristine internet. It'll just be like a grody little Shrek meme that will pop up and I'll be like, yuck. And it's very shitposty, very internet-y. And I think it's, again, mostly the work of Gen Z who have sort of like post-rationalised, like post-modernised Shrek in a sense.

12:13I was like, am I going to actually like the original source material as much as I thought I would? Yeah, that is very fair. Do you think there are people in Gen Z who are Shrek literate in the sense of memes but who have never seen Shrek? Because I think so. I think... Maybe. I think it's possible. I was also kind of laughing while you were telling that story because you accidentally sent a meme last night to a group chat. Did I? You were trying to send just a Shrek GIF and you accidentally sent a completely incomprehensible Shrek meme. Yes, that's true. Because even on like the WhatsApp GIF keyboard, all you can get is the memes.

12:48You can't just, you really have to work for the organic Shrek. And this was like the April Toon Fest would be great. And we were just like, great, fantastic. It's so embarrassing when it's so easy to get it wrong on the WhatsApp GIF keyboard. You can't see it before you post it. No. You press it and then it's gone. Sort it out, Zuckerberg. Yeah. Anyway, so we open on Shrek. He's in the swamp. He's doing his thing. He's gross and he loves it. He scares away villagers who hate him because he's an ogre and because he lives in this sort of like fairytale adjacent land. Ogres are just like, you know, grind your bones to make their bread.

13:27It's fantastic. What a wonderful opening. And for me, personally, I love the way that Shrek is basically the post child for the single woman in her 30s. Yeah. In his insistence on being alone. You felt so moved when he was having his dinner alone. Having his dinner alone. It's very much like that French man on TikTok, you know? Like, no, no, she does not hate men. She just wants to drink a martini alone. Garnished with the eyeball of her enemy. That's how I felt. He's just there. He wants to have his delicious dinner. He's eating his little pumpkin stuff with red cabbage. He's got his little earwax candle.

14:04It's so perimenopausal of him.

14:12I love him. I love him. And then it's ruined by people.

14:21Oh, no, sorry. And then it's ruined by people. It's ruined by people. And suddenly all the fairy tale creatures have come and taken refuge. Yes. in his swamp in his swamp in his swamp and i guess like this is the part of the story where like um shrek's storyline and shrek sort of origins become like quite interesting if you're kind of if you're the kind of person who's interested in the kind of like corporate machinations of the disney company yeah they're sort of fascinating and the short the short and the short version of that is there was this guy who worked at disney for many years and he was called jeffrey katzenberg I believe.

14:56And then in the 90s, a guy called Michael Eisner took over. And Michael Eisner is sort of often credited with being like the imaginative downfall of Disney. Like there was like, it's an insane legacy to have. That's, that's like Liz Truss levels of legacies. Oh my God. He is Liz Truss's own. He's Disney's Liz Truss. He is. Okay. Like people, I mean, I'm not a Disney adult but I have known some in my time and I certainly dabble in the forums every now and then because I'm just interested in obsessives in general and like the way they talk about that man is like really despised because there was this time in the in the early 90s where um you know we had Beauty and the Beast and we had the Little Mermaid and it was actually a return to fairy tale customs and lush animation and big music and and all that kind of stuff and And then I believe from right here, Eisner kind of got rid of all that because he wanted to focus on the parks and he wanted to focus on the retail experience and making Disney as corporate as possible, getting rid of all the Imagineers, getting rid of all the kind of creative freedom that apparently made Disney Disney.

16:08Oh, I hate him. So Jeffrey Katzenberg, because he hated him, split, founded DreamWorks with, I believe, Spielberg and somebody else whose name I know but can't remember. Look, I can quote Chaucer, but you really know a lot about the film industry. and between us we are powerful between us we're powerful powerful women in the arts and and I I could be sort of wrong on the details of this and essentially what Shrek became was they had a few kind of like sort of scuffles where you know Ants and Bugs Life came out in the same year I think Bugs Life was Disney and Ants was oh my god remember that right the two bug movies the big insect Super Bowl where for my money i prefer ants i know it's not the popular choice i don't remember either they blur into one big that that's fair enough they're the same film they are the same film but i think i think ants is marginally funnier corporate espionage i reckon yes and so then shrek came out and then you know that kind of brings us to where we are in the story now which just this character who is quite actively shitting on the legacy of Disney.

17:19Yes. And I just find that fairly rock and roll as far as corporate stories about cartoons go. Yeah. And I definitely, now that you say that, I am aware, and I'm sort of skipping ahead here, but we'll come back to it, that Duloc, I believe, is meant to be a sort of cipher for the Disney parks. Yes. I mean, they are, right? I mean, it does look very much like one, does it not? When you see it on the horizon. So there is definitely that sense of just like, fuck those guys. And you have to wonder, is part of what makes Shrek so good is that it was created by someone with a grudge? Probably, yes. Is it the finest example we have of grudge art?

18:00I don't know. I mean, I guess, I don't know. When they made it, do you know? Do we think they expected it to be the kind of breakout hit that it was? they expect it to be a kind of grody little B-movie. Some people will love it. Because it really sails very close to the wind in a few places. Go on. Well, I mean, number one is a refugee camp in the opening five minutes. At this point in American history, the early 2000s, there's a cookie who gets waterboarded not long afterwards. There's a cookie who gets waterboarded. You forget that because I haven't seen this since I was a teenager. and I was like oh Mr.

18:42Chichu Breadman is getting waterboarded Guantanamo Bay style right like I feel like they really go in for like a touch of like Disney sucks but also so does American government like wow I don't know maybe I'm wrong maybe I'm reading too much into it but I feel like no I think there's literally like a refugee camp on Shrek's doorstep and I think they knew that that was a thing you know those do exist. Yeah. Wow. Interesting. And Shrek, of course, being an actual hero, is like, listen, unlike America, I don't want refugees. But what I'm going to do, therefore, is try to make sure they can go back where they came from and fight for their homeland, which is, do luck.

19:29He's not just like, oh, I don't want you here. Go away. He's like, I don't want you here. So I'm going to help you go back to where you belong, which is your forest. that's true and while he calls them freaks he is still fighting on behalf of their rights he fights on behalf of the rights of the freaks umphatic king he doesn't want to hang out with them no but that's the thing I mean he doesn't it's about what you do by the end doesn't he doesn't he I think there's a lot there I think there's a kind of subtle political commentary there's commentary on a lot in this film and it's just so funny it's just very funny it like that's the thing like the ideas remain good the jokes remain funny you know and so few things have that so few things so many things particularly when we're talking about comedies it's where like the ideas fall apart because they're like homophobic or transphobic or any kind of thing or whatever um or just outdated or not very smart but the jokes are still funny and you laugh in spite of yourself but like it's ideologically sound it's story tale sound and it's also fucking funny yes like the the the action moves at such a clip in Shrek and it's really very inspiring.

20:40Right you get through so much. You process a lot of story and like we were talking about this because um you know one of the pieces of feedback you get a lot as both a novelist and a screenwriter is um is the main character active enough and that is kind of generally where stories fall apart is because the main character is having things happen to them and they're not making strong enough choices and that's a really annoying piece of feedback but unfortunately it's always right because you see something like shrek and you're like okay you have his character and something has happened to him which is that there is like fairy tale refugees on his land but he immediately makes a choice and then that choice is to go confront the lord lord sorry lord farquad yes we'll get to in a minute by john lifko who's amazing amazing most recently seen in conclave most recently seen in conclave and like what a cp Third Rock from the Sun Shrek and Conclave That man's got range I believe he's also playing Roald Dahl on the West End I mean fucking sweet What can't he do?

21:44You go John Lithgow Lithgow? I don't know how you say his name He goes to Duloc Confronts Lord Farquaad And then Like doubles down On a second quest Which is to save the princess The side quest And all the while Has the best little sidekick That there ever there was How have we got this far into this podcast and not spoken about Eddie Murphy's finest role? Discuss. Eddie Murphy's finest role, comma, discuss, question mark. Comma, discuss, because you still think Mushu. I think Donkey far finer. You think Donkey's a finer? Yeah, finer than... Yes, Mushu. I enjoy Mushu. And look, we watched Mulan recently, which won't be mentioned on this podcast, but we watched it and he is great, but he's not Donkey.

22:25And I know Eddie Murphy also had live action roles, but this is obviously where he really shines. It's funny, isn't it, that like Eddie Murphy, even though he was like so famous as like a very kind of near the knuckle edgy comedian, that his sort of like cinematic legacy will be children's films. Yeah. Like he was in some great movies that I love. Like he was in a great movie called Boomerang that I love and like Coming to America, obviously. But in terms of like what's going to be in the archives for hundreds of years, I think it's going to be Mulan and Shrek and maybe Dr. Doolittle because he's very good at that too.

22:59Yes, very fair. Very fair. No, I think donkey is... Like, where did that come from? Yeah, and like, once they animated donkey, were they like, you know who would be great for this? Eddie Murphy. Eddie Murphy. Like, looking at that donkey as a drawing, I wouldn't be like, you know who would be great for this? Eddie Murphy. Comedian. But even just like, I mean, I know there are definitely talking animals in fairy tales, and there's probably one about a donkey that I don't know, but the donkey he's so weird looking he's such a weird looking little freak you know he's such a weird looking little freak and I just and he and he's he's very powerful I think there is really no Shrek without donkey and also the fact that he's just called donkey I know and that dragon is just called dragon I love I love the limited commitment it's really good that it's a good bit of stuff and the lord is just called fuckwad like they were I really don't think they thought this was going to be the hit that it was they were so lazy they were like yeah let's call it Donkey let's call it fuck what call it Dragon Donkey side note for anyone who's ever heard us talk about Sylve Sylvie who gets a starring role in Continental Garbage because she farts so much near us which Shrek would love Donkey has basically the exact same proportions as Sylve and so the whole of the movie yesterday we were just like so Sylve every time we did anything The expressive ears, the short, fat, little, round body.

24:30Yeah, yeah. The elegant head. The elegant head, the long nose. It made me think that maybe whoever was animating this did have some kind of Jack Russell with questionable heritage, like a chihuahua as a grandparent or something. Yeah. And I just think maybe that was what did it. I love Donkey. It makes me so sad when he's mean to Donkey. It makes everyone so sad when he's mean to Donkey. When he makes Donkey sleep outside. Oh, but when they're going to swap manly stories? I mean, Shrek is a... When Donkey runs onto the chair and says, we're going to stay up all night, we're going to swap manly stories, in the morning, I'm making waffles!

25:10Oh, it's so good! That's how I feel whenever I stay over at a friend's house now. Yeah. I'm just like, in the morning, I'm making waffles. Love him. Love him. I just love him. I mean, I thought we should say something more useful than we love him. I know, I know. We love him, though. He's just great. He's just great. Okay, no, that's what I was going to say. Okay. I do think that part of Shrek is a tale about overcoming your own negative self-talk. Say more. It's a tale, well, I mean, we'll come to that. Shrek, his belief that everyone must hate him. Yeah. You know? It's a tale about finding a place in the world, but it's also a tale about positive masculine influences, of which Donkey is, of course, one.

25:57Oh, my God, say more. Say so much more. Donkey is the friend I wish so many men had. Yes. So many men who are, like, weird and, like... Yeah. I want them to have a friend like Donkey who just loves, like, uncomplicatedly, who within seconds is like, I'm here for you. Yeah. You know, I'll tell you you need a tic-tac, but I think you're cool and I want to be your pal and not many people have that particularly men you know there is a male loneliness epidemic and famously it is not on women to fix it's on other men to fix and the way that will happen is if there are more men like Donkey that's what I think I think so too I think so I think we have that specific realisation at the very end when they've you know rescued the princess and she's going to marry Farquaad and all that kind of stuff.

26:49And then he comes back and it's very good Will Hunting. He's very like, yes, and I forgive you because that's what friends do. And it's like, yes, is donkey lonely and desperate and clingy? Absolutely. But he has put, you know, stock into Shrek. He has put the hours and the whatever into Shrek. And he's like, no, I'm not letting this go. And you haven't said sorry, but I know you're going to regret it because I know you very well. So I'm going to skip the part where you have to say sorry. And I'm just going to forgive you. I'm just going to forgive you. Because we are on a time limit. She's going to marry Farquaad.

27:23He just loves him. I think it takes a very pure heart to love without expecting someone to be able to hold you back the same way. And Donkey has that. Even those first moments when they meet and Sheik's like, you know what I am. And Donkey's like, really, really tall. Like, he's so dumb, but so pure. Hi, it's Sarah Gibson Tuttle, founder of Olive and June. And okay, can we talk about fall for a second? New season, new nails. It's honestly my favorite time to switch things up. And I am so excited because our fall collection, Little Luxuries, is here. Think deep beet red, a bold true teal, the prettiest light olive green, plus, of course, soft neutrals and a cool dusty violet.

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29:46Is it too early for me to talk about my new theory on the two types of masculinity? Please go on. You know this theory. I know. You know, because of course we've been alone for several days. the two sort of the spectrum of masculinity runs from grilling to jet ski and that is based of course on the fact that we're on holiday and the two main types of men we've experienced this holiday are the grill man that's Gavin a man who when he was here so we're in this house that has an outdoor grill it's got an outdoor grill it's beautiful it overlooks a lovely river and a lake it's so nice it's honestly it's really good guys but Gavin when he was here, he'd get to lunchtime and be like, I'm going to fire up the grill.

30:31I'm going to just get those hot coals going like he was in the bottom of the Titanic. He was just like shutting it in. And we were like, Gavin, it's 30 degrees. You do not need to stand over hot coals for two hours just to get it warm enough so we can cook prawns. He's like, no, but my women need prawns. All of them. My mother-in-law, my wife, my friends, they all need to eat prawns and they need to be grilled prawns. And he just made these delicious prawns all the time. And we had such wonderful food. and as he was leaving he was a bit like you know do you have enough stuff for the grill and we were like oh honey no we're not using that once you're gone we're gonna work out how this oven works but we were surprised we won't need it because it'll just be cheese and crackers anyway so that's that's like the healthy masculine you know it's like for for men fire is the kind of witchcraft that they have they can build fires very few women care about making a fire a barbecue or like a you know a wood a wood managed hot tub no interest yes women can build small private fires in their home for atmosphere yeah a candle that's called or candle maybe some incense but they're not going out of their way to build a lot of fire based fun yeah big green eggs are exclusively for men yeah you know but then the other type of man we've encountered because we are staying on a river is men on jet skis who just bomb it down do donuts look like absolute tits, to be honest.

31:53Who do they think they're impressing? Not me, not you, not their friends. I hate jet skis so much. I hate jet skis so, so powerfully. Like, I hate them on moral ethical reasons. Oh, yeah. Because of, you know, what they do to the oceans and what they do to the environment and how pointless they are. But I just hate them because, like, every single person who's on them... Is a wanker. Is a wanker. it turns people into bad people it does turn people into bad people it makes it's like imagine if you were like on a beautiful river that's like shrouded by trees in the portuguese mountains and you were like you know what this needs a roaring engine right and like a man a man just doing donuts a man just doing donuts like it's so particularly today it's much more atmospheric It's like there's mist coming off the hills.

32:45It's very, we were saying earlier, it's very... It's very Twilight at the moment. It's very Twilight. You don't need a jet ski in that. But there are a lot of jet skis. I don't think it's that it makes people bad. I think bad people go on jet skis. I think it reveals the badness within them. And I think that this film also has that dichotomy. It has the grilling man, that Shrek, who we saw early on making some delicious treats. And we've got the jet ski man. Which is Farquaad. Farquaad. He would ride a jet ski. Yeah, yeah. Because there's something inevitably extremely self-centred and vulgar about the jet ski man.

33:17Awful. Awful. It speaks to a kind of like, I need artificial props to feel important. That's what a jet ski does for a man and that's what Farquaad's little stilts do for him. His little weird gauntlets for the leg. He's such a mental character. Yes, and I mean, I remember we said earlier, unproblematic, nothing's aged badly. there's a world where probably someone could go the number of short jokes were bad but he is so dreadful that it actually has aged completely fine yeah yeah yeah you know he is short and he is awful he's not awful because he's short but it's an easy thing to take the piss out of yes I did sort of wonder is this some kind of like Tom Cruise thing as well oh because you're a famous a famous psycho who is very short and is always doing sort of optical illusions in order to make sure people think he's tall, even though everyone knows he's short.

34:16I mean, maybe if whoever this guy was who started DreamWorks had a personal beef against Tom Cruise. I think it's just a very low-hanging fruit for men to take the piss out of. I think fewer women care about it than men do, generally. Yeah. Fair enough. But it is funny that he's so tiny. It is. He's just funny to look at. It's a good visual gag. Every time he gets off his horse and he's very tiny. It's just so good. The opening scene where he's walking along and his face and then his legs and then he just toodles in on the size of a five-year-old. Yeah, I think we meet him when he's waterboarding the gingerbread man.

34:51We do meet him waterboarding the gingerbread man which is not a great look for anyone on an opening scene. No, but I think he's... Yeah. He's a short little guy but it is a great visual gag and we talked about this last night actually the fact that there are so many things in Shrek I think it was almost lost by the quite quickly diminishing art of CGI films. Is that a lot of what Shrek does is allow for visual humour. If you're creating every single scene, if you are going to be CGI-ing every little tiny bit, you take the time to put some funny Easter eggs in. I think you don't get those Easter eggs in 2D animation in the way that you do in CGI.

35:35and people are still dissecting Shrek to find new ones. No, actually, I think my favourite one is, it's really early in the film. I think it's when they arrive at Duloc and they meet the man. And this is sort of, have we seen Farquaad? We have seen Farquaad. And he's got this huge head and his tiny little legs and he sees Shrek and he's terrified and he runs into the gate, but he runs all the way through the little barriers. Oh, it's so funny. Because he will not, he just refuses to go against the rules and they really hold on it for like 10 seconds it's so and it's so good and yeah he's just like going around and around the velvet rope kind of thing and your right runs to each corner of it around and eventually falls because it's so good it's such a brilliant piece of like because we see so little of Duloc it's only a few minutes of screen time but we need to like really establish like this guy is like a miserable freak who wants everything to be perfect and he's essentially eugenicist and so like his lowliest employee would rather run from one end of the velvet rope to the other while escaping well he thinks running for his life yeah it's very good it's just so good and then they go in and they have that like it's a very like shirley jackson moment almost the eerie silence the eerie silence of like an empty disney park and then my favorite part is when they go up to the thing like what's this and they all like do do do do do do

37:05and then they kind of the puppets emerge or whatever and it's basically like a riff on like it's a small world kind of which if you go back to our theme parks episode there's a lovely tearful deconstruction of why Sarah Griffin loves it's a small world so much and it's creator Mary Blair who we love but it's such a funny thing to take the place out of and like the bit that always gets me and it's gotten me since I was 11 years old is the like shine your shoes wipe your face again a visual gag really good little visual gags and then the thing where he just kind of slams shut and takes the picture it's just so it's such an unusual pace of joke for an animated film for children it kind of feels more like a Simpsons moment or something yes like something they always say about the Simpsons as a Simpsons nerd who never gets to talk about it on this podcast.

38:00Go for it now. Take your moment. One of the amazing things that sitcom, that like The Simpsons did is that like usually a sitcom like that that has that many jokes has a live studio audience. And so every single scene is building up to a joke that eventually breaks and is interrupted by clapping. And the clapping amounts for like 10 or 12 seconds or even three or four seconds, right? But when you have like something that's written like a sitcom but it's animated it's it's cramming more jokes in because it's not building and breaking it's just stuffing stuff in so you have these strange little awkward moments where like you could see that like that moment with donkey and shrek getting the picture taken by the machine and it's kind of awkward and odd that could be a real homer and bart moment you know it's like very oh this is a place where clapping or laughing would traditionally go but there's not so we're just gonna hang here and the kind of frailty of the moment makes it funnier that's the thing the way they hold on it and the way you just sit that you see it and then it's like like there's a luxuriousness to these jokes yeah it's taking its time it's just like yeah yeah we've got time and you wouldn't do that in live action i don't think in the same way maybe you would yeah i don't yeah something very specifically animated and something that makes it funnier because it's animated yeah because it's taking its time to like acknowledge those strange little moments something just about almost even if you don't really think about it you know that every scene was like made by human hands yeah you know it's not set up it's not props it's like someone took the time even though it's cgi so in a certain sense it's not made by human hands it's not like a hand-drawn cell no you're right but it's got that sense of kind of like everything that every single thing you see we chose for it to happen there's no serendipity in cgi it is always choiceful you can't like have an accidental joke it's not like you know you hear about in films where Aragorn stubs his toe and he breaks it and he screams.

39:55Or they ad-libbed something in the moment and the director decided to keep it in. That doesn't happen in animated films. Every single moment has been chosen. That's true. So even when they're CGI, they are the most, you're right, choiceful mediums because everything is painstaking. And I guess this is like, you know, we spoke at the beginning about how Shrek and Lord of the Rings have this thing in common in that, like, you know, we had this tradition of fantasy storytelling that Lord of the Rings broke. We had this tradition of animated fairy tale storytelling that Shrek broke. But the thing that came after Lord of the Rings was that like, yes, we got your game of Thrones and stuff, but like we also got quite self-serious, overblown fair, kind of toxic misogynist fantasy that was bleak and dark and kind of uninspiring and sort of muscled out a lot of the girls, gays and dweebs that loved it beforehand.

40:48Right. It kind of put Princess Bride to the sword, didn't it? It did, right? And Shrek brought it back a little. But what Shrek did then was that, like, it was such a phenomenon that it created this sort of craze that kind of reigned for, like, 15 years of just, like, ugly, ugly CGI movies that became less and less thoughtful as they went on and more and more mass-produced, where they just slapped huge movie stars on them and then just like it was what I feel like Shrek first it was Shrek then it was like Ice Age which are still very funny I actually love Ice Age but like they you know they made probably way more of those than they needed to and then it's stuff like the Croods whatever the fuck that is at least we at least we recognise the Croods unlike the thing that I think you're going to reference the thing I'm about to reference which is one of my favourite videos on the internet just the sort of the formless blobs that became CGI films more and more over time formless forgettable blobs and here's this one and this is this phenomenon was completely summarised by a phenomenon called Zendaya is Michi now Zendaya as we all know is a Disney star she was in some kind of film the name of which I still don't know it was a she was a blob she was like a blob with a face and she was starring alongside many other stars like danny devito like yeah and uh somebody is basically imagine imagine a young hot man walking during golden hour down a street where the entire street is papered with adverts for this like fly posters fly posters for the cji blob movie that no one will ever see or has ever seen and okay that's what i'm about to play now

42:55Danny DeVito is Dorgo.

43:09Gina Rodriguez is Coca.

43:23So that's where we got to. That's where Shrek led us. It literally does. Lord of the Rings led us to rape on screen in Game of Thrones. Right? And Shrek led us to Zendaya is Michi. Which is actually a better legacy all in all, I think. At least we got... And like, so it's sort of like, it crowbarred open an industry that led to so much bleak, freaky, horrible, ugly movies. Sonos that missed the point because they looked at Shrek and they went, Mike Myers is Shrek. Cameron Diaz is Fiona. Eddie Murphy is Donkey. And Mike Myers is Shrek.

44:11Oh my God. Can we remake it? Can we remake it as the trailer for the Shrek podcast? John Lithgow is far quiet.

44:30So funny. That's the problem. They looked at that and they thought that's what it was. they looked at the ingredients of Shrek and they got the wrong ones you know what made this work not the um not the sharp script not the kind of messages about loving the ugliest parts of yourself not the genre defying changes it's the famous people being voices and also references people thought that referencing other movies was like the key to making a good movie and when I remember even like watching it last night it kind of cringed a little when they do this thing where they rescue Fiona and there's like a whole thing where she beats up the Merry Man as a Matrix scene and then in the Shrek 2 there's a Lord of the Rings scene and like they didn't offend me but I was expecting them to because they spawned something yuck yeah I was like it's fine because you were the first ones to do it it's like you know when you're on one of the apps on Instagram and you see what's probably the first person to use a new song to do a thing yeah yeah yeah and you're like oh that's quite funny and then you see someone else do the exact same thing with the same music which I know is the point of TikTok and by the third time I'm just like it's not funny anymore the first person did it was funny the second person did it was derivative the third person did it is a fucking idiot so stop it it's how I feel but that's how it went that way with Shrek quite badly it went that way yeah it spawned some bad bits but it spawned some great things too it did so in the story we're up to Shrek has accepted the quest gosh we haven't got very far from the story have we then they a moment for Farquaad's the amount he owns owns owes to Prince Humperdinck yes in Princess Bride like that is a direct reference I mean that's what brought us to Shrek in the first place is because we watched The Princess Bride and we realised that Shrek has borrowed lots from in a very loving and careful and like and beautiful way it has borrowed a lot from The Princess Bride which in turn was borrowing a lot from Monty Python and I feel like they're all of a lineage and they're in so much of a lineage that John Cleese is even the second one of course Of course.

46:33Of course he is. But like, there's just, you know, Farquaad, I believe his executor, his executioner is called Thelonious, which is so close to Tyrone. He loves to watch him work. Tyrone, you know I love to watch you work. yeah so then we get to the donkey and Shrek they journey to they journey to a castle far away in the middle of a volcano in the lake of boarding lava having had also a lovely little dig at the Bachelorette on the way oh yeah which I do enjoy I feel like that's a thing that again this film is 20 years old but still just very on the nose about okay so where Farquaad is looking through his potential brides and one of them is Snow White and one of them is Beauty.

47:23Mentally abused princess. This broad's got seven men living with her but don't let that put you off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that doesn't mean she's easy. It was like, in a children's film, hello. Exactly. I mean, the most obvious thing to say about Shrek is it's not a film for children but that's true of fairy tale too. So we like that. We like that. So they arrive at the castle and I mean, there's a lot to be said about the way they get there and the sort of low-level psychological torment that Shrek subjects Donkey to, which is not his finest moment, but again, Donkey. What does he do to Donkey?

47:55The bridge! Oh, the bridge is scary. That's one of the moments where I do feel really bad for Donkey. He hasn't got hands. He can't cling on to the railings. He hasn't got hands. He's got hooves. I would never do that to Sylph. No. But there we are. They find Fiona. And like, yeah, when you first meet Fiona, you're just like, oh no. I know well she's she's so wed-pilled she's so wed-pilled Princess Fiona the sort of the lying back with her little lips extended waiting for true love's first kiss the thing the thing what makes Princess Fiona such an eternal character is that she's a single woman who lives alone with her large pet her beautiful large pet Her beautiful, large pet.

48:45And she has let culture teach her what to expect from straight, monogamous relationships. And she has gone badly wrong. She has gone so wrong. And I think the thing that's uncomfortable watching Fiona is the realisation that you've met people who've had a maybe less obvious but still the same experience as Fiona, which is, you must be my true love. You're rescuing me. I was alone before. and now you're here so you must be my true love it's so the phenomena of girls who are single for a little while and then they just meet some guy and then they're like you're my true love and they're like huh they're like what like my true love and then they introduce to the friends and you're just like yeah he seems like a man yeah he's fine yeah and no no no true love no one's ever been better than this this brave knight has rescued me from the horrors of self-determination.

49:45Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she's just writing stories herself. She's just like... She's fully in the... Just, yeah, completely... She's read some books. She's read some magazines. Yeah. She knows how love should go and she will force that upon someone unless that person is a strong, grilling man. A strong, grilling man. Such a Shrek who is like, no, no, I reject your expectations of me. I will bring you out of yourself. he does he doesn't mean to but he does and I think actually weirdly you have a sort of a mirror or like an echo in dragon because dragon again like dragon we meet dragon and we think dragon is we assume all dragons are coded male you know dragon is man dragon is big angry man this is a lady dragon we don't see there's a lot in fiction and she's been in this castle for a long time and she is also just wanting love they're just two girls in love they're just two housemates they're two single gals who have been just like really having a bad time on the apps and one of them is like oh my true lover's come because he's rescued me and the other's like this will do this talking donkey will do and she's like he has a friend and she's like fine exactly he has a friend and that's just like that's all that dragon wants is to be loved and instead she gets a Chaucer moment she does have a Chaucer moment that's the Chaucer moment is when she's trying to kiss donkey and instead she kisses Shrek's hairy nether eye.

51:16Which is his asshole. As his asshole, which is a reference to The Wife of Bath by Jeffrey Chaucer, which is a great little read. It's nice that there are some jokes that have just been in circulation for hundreds of years and are always funny because like bums and farts are always funny. 700 years later, it's still extremely funny when you mean to kiss a mouth and you accidentally kiss an asshole. And it never won't be. The nether mouth. The nether eye. The nether eye, sorry. The nether eye. And I believe in the Chaucer, the man who kisses the nether eye, is like, oh, I didn't know you had a beard.

51:50It's disgusting. I would not know these things if we weren't friends. He'd be like, oh, Chaucer, it's all just like, poodly, poodly, poodly. No. It's rancid. That's why we love it. So they get rescued. And I actually do, like, it's nice watching Shrek again when you know that Dragon has a happy ending because I did feel really sad for her. Do you know, like when she just like runs herself around like the labyrinth underground and then she gets left behind and she's like ooh it is sad and you're like no she just wanted to be love I have no idea how her and Donkey sex life works out but apparently it does oh god I mean I know we're not talking about Shrek 2 tonight although we did watch them both because why wouldn't you and in Shrek 2 for those who haven't seen it Shrek and Donkey both drink a potion which transforms them into hot versions of themselves yeah And it also transforms their partners into hot versions of themselves.

52:42And the thing that's never seen but I will always want to know is what did Dragon become? What did Dragon become? So we then get into what's actually kind of the true emotional heart of this film. Which is Shrek and Fiona. Shrek and Fiona's love story. And it's good that this film manages to go through so many different phases. You know, there's the set up. There's the unproblematic king political drama. Yes. There's the quest. The typical quest. and then there's a love story. And the love story, because movies like this, for example, The Princess Bride, where it's just like exciting scene after exciting scene, just all these good scenes and no bad ones.

53:21Generally, the things that gets shortchanged in those stories is the love story because love stories, they need to be filled with quiet moments and dialogue and, you know, little things that are, you need to put the time into them, right? And so that's why we rely so heavily on beauty in love stories because we have been trained by fairy tales and media that has you know come from fairy tales and everything that like beauty is the sort of shorthand to virtue of some kind and so we look at people's faces and we see you know perfect sparkling eyes and clear skin and lovely hair and we think lovely and then we think yeah someone of the opposite gender you know in traditional media who has the same qualities and you go they match these two match they should be together totally but shrek does not have that no so it has a genuinely lovely long segment of them really falling in love and that is i think to you see we obviously to see that dialogue with the princess bride that is if i were going to level one criticism of the princess bride as if i would it is that there really is nothing between wesley and buttercup other than their mutual hotness yeah like I have no idea why they're into one another yeah yeah yeah none at all and it's very much a part of the sort of slight satire of the piece is that like you're beautiful of course you know yeah so obviously we adventure them but Shrek and Fiona of course they're not beautiful but to me and there is a certain irony of this they are the kind of the before midnight of the fairy tale genre oh you mean the Richard Ignater as in which we spent a lot of time talking about last year where the point of that film is like two beautiful people meet on a train and you're like, well, obviously, they're going to get together.

55:04They're beautiful. But you get to see all their yuckiness and all their realness. And I think with Shrek and Fiona, we kind of get Before Midnight, not least because they have to fall in love before midnight because she turns into a fucking ogre. Very nice. Yes, thank you. See what I did there? Very good stuff. Very good stuff. Very good. Yes, yes. Watch our episodes on Before Midnight on the Spotify. They're really good episodes. They are actually really good. But I think as we get there is we get that sense of two real people actually falling in love. And the thing that's so wonderful is that they don't, and you said this earlier in a way that I would probably butcher, but I'll try and say it anyway.

55:38And you were like, oh, normally it's about like, oh, it's not just about enough to be beautiful on the outside. These couples have to also prove that they're beautiful on the inside. And that's not where Shrek and Fiona fall in love. They fall in love because they are both yucky on the inside. They're both yucky, yucky people. And this is the true, like, the true valor of love. The true valor of romantic love is not having like special Instagram moments and like saying perfect things in a perfect way. Although it can be. It is like being yucky in front of someone for the first time and finding out they are also yucky.

56:14It's having like little dark treasures with someone. And in Shrek and Fiona's love story, it's very much like, like, what is it? he's being bothered by flies and she gets like two sticks and she creates a little candy floss. And then he eats it. And then he eats it. And the bit where she's singing to a bird. And then the bird explodes. And then she eats the birds young for breakfast. Yeah. I was like, yes. And like they inflate like a frog and a snake and they make balloons out of them. And they're like, hee, hee, hee, hee, hee, hee. And every single one of those moments is more special than anything in The Princess Bride in terms of believableness.

56:55Yeah, it feels very special. You do feel like they fall, and they fall off very quickly. Like, this is a couple of days. And that's why when you hear couples talk about, like, their private lives together, they're not generally talking about their anniversary dinners or their holidays. They're talking about, like, the really good blackhead they found on each other, you know? Yeah, I've heard that story, certainly, from friends. But that's how you know. I feel like, I'm not saying that every, like, close couple should be taking a dump in front of one another on the regular. But, you know, like, if I know someone who's been dating someone for a year and they've still never farted in front of him, I'm just like, oh, there's a problem there.

57:37Because everyone's a bit yucky. Yeah. You've got to just, I'm not saying get into it in a joyful way, like playing the accordion, but just, like, accept. And basically... Just accept that you both have bodies and you're both a bit yucky and have bad habits and have a little bit of letting someone into your closest self. Yeah, because yuckiness is vulnerability. Yuckiness is vulnerability. And basically the whole challenge of any kind of monogamous code, like domestic life, is trying to be authentic to your yuckiness while also leaving enough gaps for mystery that they still want to have sex with you.

58:19And there is an entire industry all based on... The only reason Esther Perel is in work is because this problem persists, is that we don't know how to have someone be our most treasured, yucky companion, but also maintain elusiveness so that they will wonder about us enough to see whether they want to have sex with us again. Right, and you so often see stories about couples who have lost the mystery, lost the mystique, had an affair Shrek and Fiona that's not gonna happen I think that's why I mean we were two bottles of wine in when we got to Shrek 2 last night but we got weirdly tearful oh so emotional watching them watching them at the very beginning of Shrek 2 on their honeymoon to accidentally in love by the counting crows and we were just like weirdly teary and we were like they're just so happy together it's so good that's kind of what you aspire to yeah there are like there are very few movies that are about happily married couples yeah and certainly no children's movies yeah but Trek 2 is like a movie about a happily married couple and the only thing that goes wrong in their relationship is their they try and change to make the other one even happier yeah also they meet the parents also about meeting parents which is the whole thing it's very rooted Trek 2 it's a very good film it is very good and again I think I was asleep for much of it last night but it is Yeah, you were in and out.

59:45I was dozing off. You know, I've seen it before. Yeah. But I think you, and you know, obviously we write notes when we watch films. If you can believe it, we do actually have some guidance. Really seeing behind the scenes here. Behind the scenes here, because, you know, we make sure we remember the things we said. But you said to me yesterday, you were like, you turned to me and you gripped my hand and you went, this is one of cinema's great love stories. And I was like, yeah, it is. It really is. And I think when we finished watching it, in fact, you know the way Netflix likes to tell you what you should watch next?

1:00:17Yes. You know, if you enjoyed this, you would like. And it just went Pride and Prejudice. And I thought that was so perfect. If you like Shrek, you'll love Joe Wright's Pride and Prejudice. This Regency drama. This quiet, unassuming story with absolutely no bathing in poo in it. That is crucially about two people who fall in love because of their worst qualities. which is being little bitches which is proud and prejudiced which is another branch of being yucky another branch of being a little bitch which is what pride and prejudice is about yucky of the soul yeah and I think like that algorithm isn't the algorithm doesn't know why it's right but it is right it is there is a direct line from pride and prejudice to Shrek there is uh so good any other highlights of this okay so then we have um Fiona has her whole deal while she turns into an ogre at night.

1:01:11We all know about that. Oh, we've got the merry men. Oh, merry men. I love the merry men. I mean, pick-up artists. That's what they are. Very pick-up artists. We've all met them before. We've all met them in Leicester Square. We've all been told to take our headphones off and that we might be pretty if we smiled by the merry men. Often in alligator shoes. Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes. I mean, there's nothing really more to say about them than the fact that they're a lovely bit of comic relief in that moment. I love them you need them you need them in what could otherwise be probably you could you could almost go too far for the kids into love story so the married men excellent and like you know Fiona is an ogre Shrek doesn't know I don't know that there's much to say about the planet we all know the back and forth that goes on and the oh no the classic she's talking about herself and Shrek thinks she's talking about him which has never happened in real life I don't think but it's nice to put it in films so often but I think for me the thing that I really loved again seeing it last night for the first time in probably ten years is the moment when the first of all they skip to the I do's in the wedding.

1:02:21Oh yes the wedding. The Princess Bride moment. During the wedding where there's you know at this point like Shrek has realised he needs the help of his fairy tale friends and so on and so forth. The dragon is involved Donkey and Dragon are restored they all land in the chapel they interrupt the wedding Farquaad is just eaten which is the best way for a villain to go Farquaad is simply eaten there's no moment being like get out of here we don't want you never show your face he's like no he's eaten he's dead we killed him and he never comes back again no no there's no revenge of Farquaad he's simply eaten he's simply eaten and he was the exact right size to fit into Dragon's Mouth Hole yeah and that can't be a coincidence remember when we watched Hook at the beginning of the year yes and it was like one of the faults of Hook was that it just they don't know what they want to do with Captain Hook at the end.

1:03:09Yeah. He gets eaten in a very unconvincing way. Yeah, and there's a couple of moments where Pan is like, I won't fight you. And then Hook is like, yeah, okay, thanks. Okay, but I'm going to fight you. And then it's just like, to cleanly get rid of your villain in one fell swoop, we ate him. Chomp him down. He's chomped, he's gone. He's chomped. And it's the way it's done. But then Fiona, who obviously the audience and Nonky had seen as her ogre self stops Shrek from kissing her before the sun sets because she wants him to see this other side of her and to see everything that she is and what's so beautiful I think is that she trusts him like she knows even though he's never seen her as an ogre, a thing that ugly will find scary and ugly and horrifying that she knows that he will see that and find it to be true and I think that's a very moving moment very moving, it remains moving It remains moving even after all these years.

1:04:05You just see her. She says like, oh, there's something I wanted to show you. And then she turns into an ogre. And he just thinks she's hot. And that lovely Scottish voice. It's that lovely Scottish voice. You are beautiful.

1:04:22Who, like, Mike Myers as a Scotsman. My God. I mean, the only other time I can think of it is when he played Fat Bastard in the Austin Powers movie. which is a very different Scottish accent. But somehow he managed to keep them two very separate. He's a talented man. Very talented. Not given enough opportunities these days, I think. What's he been in? Not good stuff. No. Wow. And that's basically the end. And then the end is just a party. A Legend of Zelda-style party. I love when it just ends on parties. Why don't more movies end with just a big party with the pigs breakdancing? you didn't even mention the pigs i love the pigs i love the pigs so much i love that even though i first saw them when i was like 11 years old and i had never met a gay person in my life knowingly i still was like i know those pigs are gay yeah those pigs are berlin gays they are k-hole gays They are getting into Bergheim.

1:05:28Bergheim. Bergheim. There's just, there's, I mean, you could spend hours deconstructing every single tiny bit of Shrek. Yeah. But the main things you need to know is a story about two really good pals and a very healthy relationship. Right. And also a dress that never goes all the way to the floor. And that really bothers me. It really fucked you off. It really fucked me off that she, like, her dress is neither a midi nor a maxi, but hits kind of somewhere around the ankle. And if you've ever seen Drag Race, you know that Michelle Visage kicks you off the show for that. Really? She hates that.

1:06:02Well, maybe she needs a seat rack. I guess if you're animating, though, not to get really boring, but, like, if it went all the way to the floor, she'd look like she had no legs, no feet. Probably. I'm sure there's good reasons. It just bothered me. It's good. I feel like there are a lot of things about the CGI in this film that bother me, and her dresses among the least of them. It's mostly the uncanny valley humanoids that we meet throughout. All the people who aren't named characters are horrible to look at. There is a certain glimmer of PlayStation 1 about it. Oh yeah, you won't later than me.

1:06:35I went for N64, but I suppose they'd have more corners on their faces if that were the case. You know, Shrek reminds me of... So recently, Gavin went to a stag do where he didn't know that many people. and he got so drunk that he sort of fell asleep for a bit. You're in the middle of a rented villa where you're all drinking until 3am and Gah falls asleep mid-conversation. And then he just woke up in the middle of a thought. And he said to this room full of men he barely knew, he said, if King Kong were a normal-sized monkey, girls would still like him because he has something about him.

1:07:14I only learned this when we were at the wedding that this tag dude was adjointed to and someone came up to me being like I will never forget that as long as I live that if King Kong were a normal sized monkey girls would still like him because he has something about him such a failure to understand King Kong and yet somehow he's right but you know what it made me Shrek makes me think of if Shrek were just a normal guy girls would still like him because he's got something about him And honestly, Shrek 2 proves it. I know this is a gross thing to say, but when Shrek is shirtless, I'm like, look at that back.

1:07:47Right? And his hairy chest packs.

1:07:53His little leather vest? His little leather vest, so chic. All right, I think that's it. This has been such a treat. It really has been. Such a treat, a treat almost as much as a load of flies wrapped in cobwebs eaten off his dick. Very good. Very good indeed. Very good. Very good. Bye, everyone. Bye.

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