Taylor Swift: Life of a Showgirl

0:06Hello and welcome to Sentimental Garbage, the podcast where we pledge allegiance to your hands, your team and your vibes. My name is Carolyn O'Donoghue and I'm sweeter than a peach and softer than a kitten and she's got a fat ass and a baby face. It's Jen County. Hello. Oh we're back. Oh we're back. We're so back. Our dear friend Taylor. She's back and we're back. We're back to support her. God it feels so good doesn't it? Doesn't it? We've been having the best weekend of our lives. Oh it's been phenomenal. I've had more fun this weekend than I have had in the six months I think it's been so good so good and we've got Taylor to thank for it yeah it's a true experience let's take us back now today is Sunday it is Sunday night I'm gonna put this out tomorrow which is Monday out of an off schedule I know release for you for those of you who think that means that there will also be a new episode on Thursday there won't be because I'm not Taylor Swift and I have other things going on it's just this podcast this week everyone wanted I was basically getting bomb threats in my dms that if we didn't put an episode out but i have a showgirl that i might as well never podcast again usually when we do our podcast we let it percolate quite a while yeah so when we did like the i mean we've only been doing this for for a little while so we've done two albums plus the movie of course yes i remember when we did our midnights podcast it was like months and months later you had developed this theory about it and it was just after taylor and joe owen broke up yeah that was when i was like the master key that unlocks midnights here it is let's discuss it yeah exactly that was like six months later six months later and then when tortured poets came out we were listening to it while interrailing for like two months like a month while we were traveling and then another month we got home and then we did an episode about this and this had came out on friday it did i my my body just woke itself up at 6 30 a.m i think because she knew she's like you i had an office day that day i was like back to back meetings all day i was like girl you're gonna have to get all your listening done before 9 a.m.

2:04And you did. And I did. And I woke up, I don't work on Fridays, I woke up to just like my little essay from Caroline. Yeah, you woke up to those 15 messages from me reviewing what I thought of all the songs. And I think if we had just done that all weekend, like listen to the album in our headphones and been like, I don't know, it's kind of disappointing and I don't understand why she's invoking Elizabeth Taylor. And I don't, the Hamlet references are very shallow and the lyricism it's not her best and that charlie xex i'm not sure but but we didn't do that basically every take on the internet right now is people doing the sort of damning with fame praise or actively um pretending like she's committed a war crime by by sort of putting a fairly shallow bubblegum pop record after she put out a three hour sort of her bleeding freely in the bathtub no we have experienced as it should be experienced which is to say first solo with headphones.

3:02Second, maybe put it on the speakers, dance around the house a bit. Get a taste of what it's all about. Third, we took it to the streets. We took it to the streets. Or rather, someone else took it to the streets and we attended. Yeah, we went to Swiftageddon. We love Swiftageddon. We've talked about it before. Hosted by our friend Alex at the Queen of Hoxton. So it's Shoreditch on a Saturday night. It's London. It's coming into winter. All the girlies are smoking fags outside and they're already singing Opalite. Do you know what I mean? Right. Like all the straight men are there and they have walked into something they were not expecting.

3:34Yeah. And it's brilliant because we're stronger than them and there's more of us than them. And we're united on this. So already we're walking into the club. We've had two Old Fashions and a cocktail bar nearby. The vibes are fucking high. I love it. And then we get in there. And then I think we got in at about half ten. We left at two. And we had all the Taylor Swift songs that we love. And we also had all the Life of a Showgirl songs. and we understood why we were however many fucking whiskey sodas deep they were like oh this is incredible we had then the other crucial part of a Taylor Swift listen the really drunk taxi ride for nearly one hour yeah yeah so our poor taxi driver that man must have thought we were in a cult it was nuts the insights that were coming out one another just like he's he's playing magic fm or whatever we just have your phone on max i'm texting our notes to the group chat we have with your husband who's in bed it's like why are they sending me yeah these bizarre fragments of sentences right so we wouldn't lose them so we have a club night we have the club night we have the taxi home and then today we get up we haul our hungover asses to the everyman cinema and Crystal Palace.

4:48It is you and me and I would say a smattering of really earnest and very shy 13 year old girls with their moms. Some of them still wearing their like wearing their pajamas. They were so young and so earnest. It was so like pajama party energy but they were so shy and we were the only one singing because crucially we know all the words already. Every single word. And that was well that ended one hour ago. Yeah and now we're on my couch with my dog. That's how fresh fresh we are yeah this is the freshest potatoes that you can get fresh these are fresh fresh fries and in between the friday solo listen the saturday night dance party the early morning early hours of sunday morning cab ride and sunday afternoon cinema we have decided what this album is we have the concept we have the concept we've cracked the code we've really gone for it we've really been like that big machine like and i know what you guys have been thinking you've been thinking i mean something my friend tash said to me uh and i thought it was a very like stable critique she was like this whole album needs a rocket up its arse it's so like dull it feels like 90s pop it feels like kind of where where is it what is it and like also we were promised the life of a showgirl we were promised like rhinestone and sweat and what it's like to be the most famous girl in the world and what it's like and then we're getting these like kind of milquetoast middle of the road slightly jackson five sounding numbers some of it kind of sounds like Christmas music from a rom-com.

6:14She's not vocally stretching herself. She's probably lying down and saying much of this. Yeah. And then we got it. We got the thesis. We got the concept. We've got it. May I? You may. Indeed, you must. Something Taylor has said several times in the sort of wait for this release is that she wanted it to be bops. She wanted it to be dance floor. What we have come to understand by the term dance floor over the last two calendar years have been like Charlie XCX, which is like 365 Party Girl, Apple Dance, being grungy, being sludgy, cigarettes, cocaine, all that vibe, right? Yeah, your knickers are full of drugs.

6:53She does not mean that. No, that's not the kind of dance floor she's talking about. Taylor is not referring to that dance floor. She's not talking about Chapel Rhone's dance floor either. No, she's not talking about queer joy. And she's not talking about even Sabrina Carpenter's dance floor. No, she's not talking about that either. But she's talking about a very famous couple of dance floors. She's talking about a very specific dance floor. And the dance floor she is writing to with Life of a Showgirl is the dance floor of a wedding party. All of this music, every single song on Life of a Showgirl can either be played at a wedding or at a hen do.

7:23And we will be going Some both. Some both, some both, but with different inferences. You know what I mean? And the most useful way to think about this album is that she has written some of the most beautiful love songs out there about Jo Elwyn. She's written Lover, she's written Delicate, she's written Dress, and now she's met the man she's going to marry and she has to really quickly write some songs that she can dance to at their wedding. And her own hen do. And her own hen do. And like everyone complains apart from Swift to Geddon most people are like oh you can't dance to Taylor Swift apart from Shake It Off which is actually really hard to dance to.

7:56Yeah it's a terrible song. She's done it though finally. You have to you hear this in the club it has transformed. You hear it in the Queen of Hoxton. It is music to dance to with a flower girl. It's music to dance to with an auntie. With your grandma. Yeah, because like the kind of dancing that you dance to a Taylor Swift, I'm truly this kind of Taylor Swift, is like, because there's the kind of dancing that you do when you're moving and grooving by yourself with your close friends in the club and like you're kind of lost in the music and you're feeling yourself, but you're feeling your pals as well because you're so intimate with them and you can sort of be in your bodies and it's one and it's magical.

8:26But there's also that other kind of dancing that you do with women who you may not know that well or are simply in a mixed generational setting where the dancing consists of pointing and miming and this is pointing and miming music. Everyone's having a lovely time. It's making a little phone symbol with your hand. Oh, it's knocking on things. It's knock, knock on wood. Literally, we were standing in Swiftogeddon and people already had a dance for a knock of wood, for wood rather. And they were doing little imaginary knocks on wood. They were doing little Motown shuffles. I was like, I get it. This is the thing.

8:57People have forgotten that the dance floor isn't just where you go to pick up lovers. It's also where you go to have a nice time with people you've already had sex with so many times. and also your friends and family. Yeah. It's like... It's that dance floor. There is nothing sexy about this album in many ways and that's as it should be. Yeah. It is music for an absolutely middle-of-the-road wedding and an absolutely standard hen do. And the thing is, it will make both his events slap. Yeah. It will elevate both those events. I cannot wait to attend weddings where this album is being played. Yeah.

9:28Pretty much on repeat the whole way through. Shall we go right into the track listing? I think... Oh, can we just take a moment for the fact that how kind of her to give us mere 12 tracks 12 tracks that we go now we know all the words to now like we know all the words it's been so quick like my first listen when we got to the final track yeah i'm so used to there being like feature length film albums yeah i sort of wandering around my house with it on and i was just like god weird for her to put this in the middle it sounds like the end of the album okay track one which is is gonna be the lead single we found out from we have found out so the movie event for those of you who missed it which i imagine is a lot of you it's wild that she got 20 quid each out of us for that it is mental that we spend 40 pounds in an everyman cinema to see this because what it is it's you get in she you open on it's taylor just speaking to camera being like hey thanks for coming really excited to share this with you amazing there's a target ad we don't even have target there's an ad for target it's like could you not even like did not even think to cut that bit out for your non-american audience or localize it somehow to me i'm sure she has some similar deal with a similar UK retailer.

10:34Right. And then it's just, it's a combination of sort of her talking to camera, which is actually very charming because she's very charming. And then one music video, which you see behind the scenes and you see the music video twice. And then just the lyrics videos, which is like, Taylor Swift has got really into taking a bit of footage, putting it through the kaleidoscope setting. Yeah. On her, whatever video editing software she uses and then making a boomerang. So it's just, we paid to watch boomerangs and Zoom calls. And do you know what? I'd pay it again. I paid again we had a great time Zoom call oh my god I think that moment when we were sat two minutes into the film she is so mercenary where there is a Zoom call happening and it's a Zoom call that I feel like I've been on you know where it's just one person has got a big idea and everyone else's job is to make them think it's a good idea and there's a guy next to her and you know what maybe it is just being like wow yeah oh my god yeah fire yeah and I was like I am watching someone else's terrible day at work it's fascinating I think Taylor's probably a great person to work with I think she's a keen collaborator and I think she's got everyone's comfort in mind and I think she's probably great on set.

11:38But it's also, it's like, what's hilarious is watching this behind the scenes sampler thing where it's like looking at people find new ways to agree with Taylor that don't sound repetitive because they're like, yeah, yeah, cool tea. Yeah, amazing tea. Wow, fire, cool. Fish victim. Fish victim. And it's very sweet. Very sweet. It's very earnest and very pleasant working environment. Yeah. But I can also just feel like I can feel how much my cheek muscles would be hurting by the end of the Zoom call. You know? They'd be atrophied from just like the grinning I'd have to do. Yeah, yeah. Because she's really enthusiastic.

12:15She has boundless energy. You have to match her energy. Therefore, you have to match it. Yeah. I loved it. I loved every moment of that cinematic experience. Face of Ophelia, track one. You hated this track when we first spoke. I remember texting you. This is why you can't trust anybody who's only reviewed this album through the medium of folding. laundry with their headphones on nope nope they are tailored to problems that you can fold laundries your headphones on and cry and think about your life and really think about her life and the poetry of all that and that's what touch of poets is for that's what folklore is for that's what evermore is for right this is not that no and i was like it's a skip for me but i have to say i listened to it the first time i listened to it and i was like yeah like i'm not it's not really vibing for me and then later that day i texted you and i said i'm sorry to break this to you yeah but i fear it is in fact a banger you just have to yeah i have to hear it the right way not headphones not headphones it's a dance floor song it's a cheesy white lady dance floor song but it's still a dance floor song and I mean I loved hearing her talk about this because it was so kind of unhinged go on and also I mean I've not been alerted to this because I spent this morning being hung over but apparently some portions of the internet are up in arms about the fact that she's referring to Shakespeare and doing it a bit wrong well this is the thing this is like Taylor's a nerd she self-identifies is an english teacher that's her gender and the pronouns are still we us in this album and obviously because everybody who loves the tailor is a nerd also they like to sort of be like oh you know she doesn't understand her own references and we've said that ourselves she often invokes literary references that it doesn't really feel like she totally grasps like it's like like nancy mitford you know she's the bolter and all that kind of stuff and she's a big fan of digging out the great Gatsby it's always like quite obvious broad references kind of employed in a strange way but I think she employs what's quite interesting she employs the references at the level at which they exist in popular culture even when they've become divorced from their original like their genesis point so with Ophelia the fate of Ophelia you're not going to learn anything about the play Hamlet from the song the fate of Ophelia that is not the aim nor indeed should you if you wish to learn about it you could read it yeah there is yeah she's not here to teach about what happens in Hamlet.

14:26There's a lot of stuff out there about what happens in Hamlet and why and how and why Ophelia dies and how she dies. But the point of Ophelia in popular culture, if you say Ophelia, people immediately think of the painting of Drowned Ophelia and they think this is about a woman who is spurned in love, goes mad and dies. Yes. Is that true? Is that technically the right reading of it? Who cares? Yeah, who cares? But she's playing with the pop culture level reference. So the same with Get Gatsby, Great Batsby's. same with the great Gatsby same with Mitford she just takes kind of like what most people would be like vaguely oh I think it's kind of about that yeah she takes that totally because like the thing we said earlier on I'm like this is about the life of the showgirl like where's the showgirl I think the elements with which this is a quote-unquote showgirl album is that it's unbelievably broad yeah it's it's it's it's interested in like broad sketches like right you know that girl you heard about from that play once like yeah like sad you're sad she's sad she She died.

15:25Tragic, tragic song. It's broad. It's camp. It's so camp. It's PG. It's for everyone. It is, particularly when they do the PG version, which I'm sure we will talk about. Yeah. But yeah, I think with this one, she's just kind of decided that's what she wants to talk about. And when you hear her speaking about it, I think one of my most favorite moments of her talking about it in this film, where she goes like, you know, I just love Shakespeare. I love him. And you're like, okay, cool. Like, no one was saying you didn't. And I actually just like, I really care about these characters so much. that when they die, I actually feel really sad.

15:56And I was like, I think that's, I do think that's the point. But that's so me of me. I think that is the point of tragedy, is that when the characters die, you're like, that does seem bad. Which makes me think maybe she wouldn't have been a great English teacher. But it's so sweet that she's just like terminal uniqueness. She's reading, yeah, exactly. Her own terminal uniqueness. Terminal uniqueness. I feel so sad when I read or see a Shakespearean tragedy. and you're just like bless you bless you and she makes it into such a bop it's such a fucking bop do you know what's weird about it it's so good it's got a few great lyrics in it that are completely unconnected so what are they do you know what it's a song that I oh yeah the land the sea the sky I don't know I swear allegiance to the land the sea there's so many good bits it's like I couldn't tell you I think what's probably disappointing as a lead single is mostly with Taylor Swift you're like she's a very very good lyricist yeah and you're like oh that immediately sticks in my mind Fabophilia which is her lead single the only one that has a music video so far none of them it's just called the Fabophilia and it's a bop it's a bop and I think it's like it really does ground you situationally and where you are in the career what was happening last which is like okay the last time you saw me put out new music it was really like depressing heartbroken tragic malady about the guy who fucked me over and she says in sort of little mini interview she's like oh when we think of ophelia we think of um how she was driven crazy by hamlet yeah i was like and who could this be and you're like and then is hamlet in the room with us right now or is he touring with the 1975 right yeah and she's like like yeah and you know i think about this sort of oh i could have stayed sort of drowning but And suicidally ideating.

17:45I was suicidally ideating. It's a very camp way. You all spend money on the double album of that. Right? It's a very, very camp and very kind of glittery way to be like, you know how I was really depressed? Not anymore. Yeah. I'm actually fine now. I kind of love it. It's so funny. It is like when you have, you know, you have that friend who only calls you up when she's having a bad time. Yeah. And she comes and stays on your couch. She's like, I don't know what I'm going to do. And then you like worry about her for months and you're like, God, she's not responding to my text. And the next time you see her, you're like, dude, are you all right?

18:11And she's like, I'm great, actually. And you're like, so I worried about you for nothing. That is what this song is. Yeah, yeah, I'm fine now. I was like, yeah, but should you not be looking at the underlying stuff of what made you so sad? She's like, no, I've got a new boyfriend. And now everything's perfect. What are you on about? Why would I be sad? Sounds like a you thing. Sounds like you want me to be sad. Sounds like you're triggered. It's so interesting reading this album while simultaneously Elizabeth Gilbert is got... There's a lot of similarities. There's a lot of similarities. Because they both grew up on Christmas tree farms and they're both blonde ladies who are famous for their relationship between memoir and fiction and people being obsessed with them and modelling their lives on them and all this stuff.

18:58I no longer think that they are separate individuals. I actually think that we have... Some kind of time-space continuum has ruptured and Elizabeth Gilbert is Taylor Swift. Just a different version of her. Older and a different life. Yeah, in the future. Yeah, it's kind of that thing. And she's come back to write this book to give to Taylor Swift and be like, Taylor, I know you think that it's just like if you find the right guy, everything's going to be fine, but it's sex and love addiction, baby, and you need to get this under control before you accidentally try and kill your girlfriend. I'm Liz Gilbert and I'm here to tell you what's there for you in the future.

19:32She is like the Terminator of Taylor Swift. Liz Gilbert is Taylor Swift's Terminator? Oh my God. Just, yeah. And yet, even though Liz Gilbert is Taylor Swift's Terminator, she too is still trapped in the endless cycle of like, of huge enlightenment where she's like, I have discovered a central truth about myself that has illuminated my life. And finally I understand everything and I will share it with you. And then a few years later, it's like, I was wrong, but don't worry. Because I have a new epiphany that's even better. epiphany upon epiphany upon epiphany and so it shall go forever and ever because because it's like so much of this album is like taylor being like i it's never been like this before i like girl we've heard it be like this before you wrote beautifully about it being like this before you wrote some would say even better songs about when you were in love the last time yeah but you fully if you listen to this album you didn't know anything about taylor swift if you had just appeared from Mars, you'd be like, God, this woman has never been in love before in her whole life.

20:35And it's so nice that she has finally found a boyfriend because no one has ever... She's finally found someone who understands her, just like that other guy she found who was the final guy who understood her. But then again, being at Swiftogeddon and hearing Alex DJing masterfully, she just kind of strung together loads of songs. It'd be like, here's a little pocket of songs about all the times she was in love with Joe Irwin. And here's a little few about her and Mattie Healy. And here's some about Harry Styles. And you're just like, oh no. Yeah. This is, we have heard this one before. Yeah. And I think in the same way, Travis, like he's getting songs, but she's not angsty about it.

21:07She's also rushing those songs out so she can play them at her wedding. I mean, that wedding. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. Because if you've already written Lover, you would think that you would want to have that, because that's such a wedding song now. Yeah, but you can't have that. You can't have that, so you're going to have to have Honey instead. Yeah.

21:27And she will. because those are the same song and there's a clarinet solo in honey so it's going to work really nicely with a little band oh my god it is such a way okay we'll get to it we will we will but i think what's really important when we go back to our thesis of the hen slash wedding is at what point is it this one a hen song a wedding song or both and when is it played and who's dancing okay i think it's probably playing sort of two-thirds of the way through the hen you know like you started off people are starting to get loose they're getting loose we've done the crafts we've done the like bit of shots and now we're like it's like the the kind of the shoulders are coming down from the ears do you know i mean we're stuck we're not worrying so much whether she's having a good time because we've done a few bits yeah we've made a few like memories that are photographable and now we're on the dance floor a bit and like oh yeah we're starting to groove it's starting to feel like a real night out but not just like kind of a weird ritual i think what's also crucial about this song is that it's happening at a time where the bride has had some kind of slightly teary emotional thing about how she never thought she'd find the love of her life and she's making a little speech thanking all the girls for like being there for her through all the breakups yeah and you know particularly that last one because it was really bad and she never thought she'd love again and so it's kind of yeah she did a little speech at dinner yeah and everyone's kind of got that in their minds when they're singing along to yeah and every girl at that table is like i remember all those boyfriends i remember all those bad bad boyfriends I'm really glad.

22:49Maybe I've mixed about the husband she's marrying, but I'm really glad she's happy. But he seems like a safe pair of hands. One of the nicest moments you can have on a girls' night out slash hen night is when you know your friends so well. I've had this with you a few times when we've been to gigs or nights out or whatever. You know your friends so, so intimately well and you can see she's getting a little bit emotional at the dance floor song and you can teleport your way into her brain because you know exactly what she's thinking about. Yes! And you do. We had that last night. We had a big cry last night.

23:15It was so good. it was so necessary it was also outside mcdonald's i was like hugging you and crying on the dance floor and i knew oh that one too two cries two cries two cries two we were like we were singing and crying to you're on your own kids and i remember i was holding you so tight and i was crying so much and you were crying so much and i knew exactly what you were crying about and you knew exactly what i was crying about and then i started crying more because i knew what you were crying about it and various points in the evening people who recognize you from your podcast are trying to talk to you and you're just like

23:55so funny we were so wrecked like it was the wrong night to come up and say hi to us we were not we were deep in our feels so funny but yeah i think i think this is why this song means hen it could be played at the wedding but i think actually because particularly because of the suicidal ideation it it hits better at a hen it's hen you're right like if it's a slightly melancholy wedding yeah it could you could play at the wedding but i think it's mainly hen track two it is mith taylor this is hen this is hen hen hen all the way it's like it's almost a starting track for hen it's actually one of my favorite songs she's done in fucking years you You called it from the second you heard it.

24:40From the second I was like, this is the best. This is the best. It's so good. I heard that fucking beat kick in. When it drops. So I cried my eyes violin, Elizabeth Taylor. Oh. And it's so good. It's so perfect. It's not the first time she's invoked Elizabeth Taylor. No, and we will return to that. We'll return to that in one second. And like, obviously, you know, again, as you said at the beginning, she's not interested in getting very nuanced about these. Again, it's a showgirl album. She's keeping it broad. She's keeping it broad. It's for a general audience. And that's what showgirls do. Showgirls are not performing for their one fan at the back of the room.

25:13They are performing for the 11-year-old, the 66-year-old. You know what I mean? It is broad. And so the Elizabeth Taylor reference is obviously because Elizabeth Taylor had six husbands. Eight husbands. Eight husbands is shit. I mean, seven husbands, but eight marriages. Yes, Richard Britton twice. Yeah. Yeah. Very well, Dad, thank you. Thanks. I googled it earlier. And it's the thing of like, oh, I mean, it's very obvious. It's like, what's it like to be debuting another love when, and saying, I love him more than anyone. And everyone's like, well, is it going to be forever? Because we all are, yeah, that's right.

25:44Great. Yeah. It's a bop. It's a bop. But only in the cab home, where I'm pretty sure the cab driver thought we were in a cult. So I think we were discussing the fact that this is, it's not the first, it is a Taylor reference she's made. Yeah. The other, the other one was, is in Endgame, uh button to this taylor yeah and she's kind of done a little bit of like you know like the um wildest dreams video and it's like it's like great your name is taylor my name is taylor and we were like isn't it like we were like does obviously elizabeth taylor was a famous beautiful woman who was kind of in the the eye of the world and and her public persona kind of became her almost more than her whoever her private self was certain parallels there but i'm like i'm sorry i think the main reason she's obsessed with elizabeth taylor is that her surname is taylor and it's a chance to say her own name.

26:32And then, Caroline, you said a thing that was so smart. We started screaming. This poor cab driver. I know. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm not looking at my operating this morning. Okay. I refuse. So, okay. She says, she opens the song. Elizabeth Taylor. And then it's like, we have the name over and over again. And if you listen to it, it sort of sounds like she's saying, it's a little bit Taylor. she's not saying that she's not saying that but it's so there it's so there like an echo beneath it like Lady Gaga saying fuck her face it's a little bit Taylor it's Elizabeth Taylor Elizabeth little bit it's crazy once it's in your head you're like fuck it's a little bit Taylor

27:23it's her if you see Jamie it's her if you see Jamie exactly it's that kind of it's the hidden I fully expect her when she finally tours this to say that when singing it at least one time. Yeah, yeah. Or like throw the mic out to the audience. It's a little bit Taylor. Because it scans too well. It scans too well. A little bit Taylor. Like that's just so self-referential. She knows what people think of her. And the way she's breaking up the syllables as she says, Elizabeth Taylor. It's like, it's driving me mad. I'm like, I feel crazy. I think you're so, I am that meme with the red string across the wall with this.

27:59like it it makes so much sense it makes sense of why she's invoking elizabeth taylor other than kind of like oh yes famous iconic yeah it's just it is what it is and she's so aware of of her perception as someone who kind of like cries wolf about every man she meets yeah yeah it's always sad about a new boy yeah it is a little bit to be crying your eyes violet it's so good because it's like you have like ophelia first which is like oh i was really sad and then this guy rescued me and then like elizabeth gilbert came from the future to try and warn me but i but i didn't listen um and then she's like oh but i sort of do know i do this all the time as they used to say it me yeah that's like those two songs together is so clever it's so good i do almost wonder if and obviously violet elizabeth taylor's eyes were famously violet but i kind of wonder if she started by writing it i cry my eyes violet a little bit taylor and then was like no it's too much is too on the nose and then she yeah switched it out i don't know i think we might be the only ones who've stumbled on this and that's why you gotta listen to songs drunken cabs you've got to do it it's not enough to be on the headphones it's not you're not gonna hear it in the same way anyone who has a take on this album that is just a headphone take yours it's half a take i'm sorry you're not we don't know and i think again you need you hear this in the club you hear people screaming along to it it's so easy for it to be a little bit taylor yeah i'm very proud of us for that i'm so proud of that too other great lyrics in this uh be my ny when hollywood hates me oh my god love that didn't realize that until when hollywood hates me until we saw it in the lyric video that we paid 20 pounds to see and i was like uh are there any other great lyrics in this sorry i'm sorry i'm still on be my ny when hollywood hates me because okay this album is getting a lot of pushback for the amount of dumb fucking lyrics that are in it and there are loads of dumb fucking lyrics and I think they're sort of intentionally dumb they're outsized they're camp they're broad they're general um but like I think the subtlety that's so clever be my ny when hollywood hates me you're only as hot as your last hit baby it's so because there's such a long tradition of like famous people being in one and going to the other kind of thing like marilyn monroe like she was in hollywood for years and then she went to new york and became like a famous like she became like very serious like the Stanislaus whatever you know what I'm talking about yeah like black polo neck I'm a serious actor now it's like or you're like in New York for a while and then you go to LA to like have a huge house on the hills and hide there it's like if one has rejected you you hide in the other one and it's so smart it's such a like clever I love it I love it so much she knows herself so well she knows herself she knows what people think of her and she plays with it yeah I love her I remember thinking on Friday sure we'll do an episode but I'm not sure there's much to say oh there's too much to say there's too much to say whereabouts in the hender is this being played this is just this is like fully like we're in the thick of it we're in the deep dance yeah I think this could honestly follow yeah you probably you probably could on the dance floor it's like okay we've loosened up the shoulders now it's time to start pointing now we're screaming and gesturing our rings into the air as well the married girls of the hen are gesturing the rings into the air oh this they are yeah Yeah.

31:14And like, is it going to be forever? Showing up your ring finger. And then like everyone grabs the bride's engagement ring hand. And it's just like, look, it's going to be forever. Kaylee, you legend. Do you know what I mean? Oh my God. And if Kaylee's going on honeymoon in Portofino, so much the better. So much the better. Or if she got engaged there. Wow. Wow. Wow. I love being Kaylee's friend. Oh my God. Invite me to your handdo's. If you are doing a hen do with this album, invite me, I'll come. Is there anything else on Nose of Teddy? I think that's like my main take. It's a hen do song. It's a banger.

31:49It's a banger. And it's got a clever little joke if you want to hear it. Yeah. Which is my favorite kind of clever little joke. It's so good. It's an Easter egg. It is an Easter egg. I am convinced we have organically discovered this Easter egg. I think we have. Okay, great. Track three is Opalite. You do not fuck with Opalite. I do.

32:12you don't i don't but you know who will children on a wedding dance floor grandmothers on a wedding dance floor awkward uncles on a wedding dance floor people who don't know anything about taylor swift but can sure go what oh it's perfect what else like it is a song for babies dancing with their granddad's and it's just like it's gonna bring everyone together on the on the dance floor yeah I can just see a three-year-old girl in a tutu spinning around to this song like when you know you know I mean whose parents haven't said that to them about their boyfriend your boyfriend my parents say it all the time and that's why it's so so wedding as well the when you know you know it's like we all point the bride and groom yeah again it's the style of dancing that is mostly pointing and miming right you had to make your own sunshine it's just like it mentions my brother like you can point at your brother you're with the bride you're getting married I had a bad part of it my brother used to call it eating out the trash you point and he's like whoa I did call it that he didn't but Taylor Swift's brother did oh you're gonna have such a nice time but what's also great about this song is it's not just about the bride it's also about the groom there's the verse it's all about how she used to eat out of the trash yeah but then there's the groom who felt alone yeah because you were in it for real but she was on her phone and you were just a pose yeah so it's a chance to do the pointing at the groom, the second verse.

33:36And also you got to mime the phone. You got to mime the phone. You got to use your thumb and your little finger to make a little phone with your hand. I just, you're going to do it. And just, there's then the pre-chorus of, and all of the foes and all of the friends, brackets, ha, ha. You can point at all your family members. So many separate people to point at. This is like, it's fully, it's like one of those kind of ensemble dance routines. you know it's like a flash mob could do this and you could have the nicest flash mob at a wedding but then you have actually got again you get a mention of your mama so you can point at your mama you can't sorry but there's nobody you can't weddings are all about having named people to point at there's no one like generically you can just point at so many people with this but I do think the chorus of Dancing Through the Lightning Strikes has got a kind of beauty to it as well yeah yeah and that's when you just sort of spin around then you're like oh I was dancing like it feels like there is actually something very heartfelt there and it's something very it's very wedding speech to be like very um oh you know for so long I thought that things were bad and then I realized you have to work at these things and marriages work and wedding is work and we're happy and like blah blah blah we've been through so much together it's very that it is very that onyx sky and then no polite sure I hated it I I don't want to ever listen to it at alone is it on your skips on your spotify I find it so annoying to listen to in isolation.

35:01But when I heard on dance floor last night, I was like, oh, I'm going to see five-year-olds dancing to this. So different. Yeah. And that's the thing, there aren't enough. It's a mixed generation dance floor song. Because we had that with both Midnight's and Tortured Poets, where she did quite sort of like, I guess Midnight's quite lo-fi, quite like, you know. Yeah. Boom, boom, boom. And then Tortured Poets, she's just miserable. but she still needed to have one song that could be played at a children's birthday party so she had to put one in each of them and they do stick out I enjoy them but karma and I can do it with a broken heart you're just like yeah these are different songs from a different time but this whole album is much more children's birthday party it is I needed it it's bubblegum pop people forgot what that was it's not all about taking cocaine and like and Lord cleaning cum off her own chest which is literally a lyric from that new album sometimes it's just for babies pop is for babies and we have to remember that children like the idea of dancing through lightning strikes they've seen Disney films, they've seen Frozen adults have also seen Frozen yeah, it's something about Opalite as well, it feels very like you're watching a Netflix Christmas rom-com and they're showing that it's finally Christmas week it's like oh we were building up to this it was October, now it's December 20th it's going to get licensed so much yeah it's a shame that The Summer I Turned Pretty is finished now because they would love Opelight they would love that I'm sure I haven't seen any of it I'm sorry I've seen a bit of it people have written in a lot for us to watch it together and I just don't have the energy I watched half the first season and I couldn't couldn't finish it I'm afraid but I am very aware that they use a lot of Taylor Swift yeah songs oh bless them bless them nice any more on Opelight for you?

36:47I mean what more is there to say? it's a dance floor banger like you know there are songs in this album that we've got things to say about when I was like that's not one of them you know what is one of them though oh my god track five track four track four our favourite this is again last night in the Queen of Hoxton if you came up to us and we were screaming masterpiece masterpiece it was this new masterpiece I said this to so many people I don't know if they would agree but I do I want to extend my apologies to one like specific girl there was like a lovely Irish girl on the dance floor who came up and was like really nice and she was like you know I really like listening to it and you and I just we're not in a place to hear it we just kept screaming masterpiece and I'm like I'm really sorry if I was rude I'm really sorry it was joy we were trying generally I'm so good at like holding space for like yeah thank you so much I really appreciate that it's the joy of my life making this podcast and it's so good to see you let's have a hug I was just too in the music It's a masterpiece!

37:54Yeah, it was very stuck on broadcast, you know? Are we really scared? Are we scared of that poor girl? I'm so sorry.

38:04However, this is a masterpiece. Fatherfinger is the crown jewel of this album. I did not expect it to be. When I saw the tracklist thing and I heard that it was like something, George Michael, I was like, well, that's just going to be a song. Yeah. Truly the crown jewel. Right at the center of the tiara. the showgirl headpiece father figure okay why is it the showpiece for you I would say Elizabeth Taylor is actually a showpiece for me but I I love them both the same but Elizabeth Taylor 1 % more no okay no show your workings well listen everything about this song is silly yeah and I love all of it yeah I love I love the music I love the sampling of George Michael I love the story yeah I love I love the vaguely Italian mobster vibes I love the grain mahogany.

38:52I'll pay the check before it kisses the mahogany grain. So good. I love that, like, I think we all, and we do it too, we all lean into this kind of the new historiologist's readings of Taylor Swift where every song is a song about just one thing and one person only. And as we've discussed many times on this podcast, actually, like any true artist, she's layering multiple meanings into her story. So, people are like, oh, this is about on Olivia Rodrigo like a bit maybe certainly when you see her talking about it in the film she does take a little moment to just be like and you probably should ask before you interpolate okay yeah so okay for people who aren't aware of the Olivia Rodrigo beef the situation was is that Taylor took Olivia Rodrigo under her wing and she was very much her protege and then there was we never really got the full deal on the gossip but apparently Olivia Rodrigo sort of interpolated and sampled uh cruel summer and also new year's day maybe yeah without clearing it uh or asking first kind of assumed it would be fine because they're friends biggest perfectionist with pop's biggest perfectionist and then they fell out over that and then olivia rodrigo wrote a song called vampire it's allegedly about taylor it's a great song again most diss tracks about Taylor are great songs.

40:13She inspires great art from great artists. And so when she's introducing Father Figure, she so carefully and pointedly says, and it was such an honor to work with the George Michael estate so I could get permission to interpolate the music because that's really important when you're dealing with great work. And of course, of course, we didn't do anything until we had that approval. It is so bitchy. It's so cunty. It is. But this is so much, this isn't a diss track though. Like that's just one tiny element of it. Yeah. This is about, it's partly fiction and I think she is just kind of playing with that idea.

40:53But it's, we've talked so much about her experience of growing up in the music industry and the way that the power dynamics have shifted around her and her growth from, you know, Ingenue to the most powerful woman in pop, possibly a person in pop actually the most powerful person in pop yeah and in music at this point in time and even just the kind of the story arc from lover where you have the man to where she's just like oh if i was a man then this would all be okay yeah yeah to to the phrase i can make a deal with the devil because my dick's bigger yeah it's amazing it's so fun i'm so i was so happy for her when i heard about her giant giant cock that she just slams on the table so How much of this is about Diggs?

41:34So much. And listen, we know that we're going to be talking about Diggs pretty soon. Diggs pretty soon. But I just think that kind of you feel so pleased for her that she has found her power. I think she's gone from this place of being very vulnerable. And she's done this so much in the public eye. And she has been like incredibly scrutinized and criticized. And indeed, we are scrutinizing her now, but in a loving way. And to see her kind of be like, no, I am now. I'm the daddy now. Yeah. You know, I protect the family. It's so good. It's so camp and so great. But like, it's also like a reminder how your first take on a Taylor Swift song is never the correct one, especially when it's like one of her big vengeance bangers.

42:16Because I remember when Look What You Made Me Do came out and people thought it was so funny and dumb. Like, especially with the Right Said Fred sample was such like a weird, corny choice and like, oh, she's all in black and she thinks she's bad and all the snakes and stuff. and then the music video came out and people were like okay that's pretty sick and then it just like slowly it became like it is the fucking bop of a century so good it's like when she does these camp vengeance things they act they feel really cringe and then i don't know they just fucking work because they're so over the top and camp i think with this one like i was on the ground floor honestly i heard it one time and i was like this is genius i love it protect the family it's so good And it's just so much more like pulled into it.

43:01But I think probably her own relationship with her father as well, who was very much like 80s mahogany office. Yeah, stockbroker guy. Stockbroker. Like you just, you feel all these kind of like, this like the leaves of meaning that are kind of layered into this. Yeah. And it's the same office that Joe Elwin was called into the day he was given his settlement check to never speak to the public or anyone ever again. Joe Elwin's fucking own parents haven't heard from him. it just slid across the mahogany grain we hope this will be satisfactory yeah here's 80 million pounds to never talk about Taylor ever ever don't even say her name out loud has he ever said her name out loud I actually don't think he has

43:46Joe the slammer Alwyn yeah he took the money he took the money I would oh the slammer this bloody slammer living in a golden cage of money he's probably delighted I'm sure he is I also just think I do think they use Father Figure very well the sampling of it really gets me in the feels I think it's so beautiful and I also love I think it is a growth moment she's done so many songs as well that are about like oh Scooter Braun, fuck me over or this other guy, whatever whatever and the kind of recognition of like oh part of getting older and powerful means that the things that have happened to you you will do to other people yeah and that is just sort of part of being grown up yeah and I think there is kind of I think probably again she's not unaware of the criticism leveled against her around the fact that she basically seems to control the music industry and when she puts out an album everyone's like well I guess no one else will be having any hits for a time because that's Taylor's moment here she's brokered like a peace deal with Beyonce hasn't she, they never release music at the same time there's probably some kind of like UN negotiating table that they have but she's aware of that power and I love it, I just think having a woman in her late 30s say, first of all, unironically sing the phrase my dear boy on a song and just like leave it with me leave it with me she's so earnest and so cute and so kind of awkward but she's also like a mafia boss yeah why not be both it is crazy that she's like I like baking bread and like cats leave it with me my dear boy having fun but she's also like I will kill you I will bury you you would not want to gather alongside Taylor Swift yeah but yeah every single woman in pop has to basically kiss the ring for this my lord my lord my lord do you remember when your entire Instagram got taken down after we did a Taylor Swift podcast.

45:55Not just women in pop. Yeah, us noble podcasters. Oh dear. She'll protect the family. I love this song. I think it's the finest song of the album. Yeah, it is amazing. Again, when we were listening to it on the dance floor, hearing it all cranked up, because I also think the instrumentation on this album is so great. And again, not in your headphones, on a dance floor, you can hear the layers, you can hear the synths. Getting that 80s synth in there. Oh, yeah. It was just so fun. So good. So good that we tried to make them play it again. And they would not, even though we're friends. Very sad.

46:32What's next? What's next is the biggest skip of the album for me. Oh, yeah. Track five, Eldest Daughter. Yeah. The way I hid that on Spotify within probably about five listens. I was just like, I can't with you. It's really quite boring. Do you know what I think is good about this? Okay. track five I'm assuming everyone who listens knows this but track five on our Taylor Swift album is usually the most heartfelt vulnerable kind of like this is her cracking open her chest and telling you something really sad that's going on for her and you know the whole of was track five yeah it was so long London yes but but so long London I just had a moment there when I realised remember when we first did our Midnight's podcast and we were like we don't really know that much about her but we like the songs and now we're like we know everything we know far too much it's so lame it is I will never be taken seriously as a novelist because of this.

47:23It's so funny. Like, every time I do one of these, there's another award I will never get.

47:32I mean, I'm still amazed by how much we don't know. Because I would say every time we do one of these, I get two DMs about something I got wrong. And I'm just like, I don't care. All I care about is how I feel and how my friend feels. And I don't really care about anything else. we've come in with the huge proviso that we don't know the most we feel the most and i don't know about that but um song fives are usually have very like a big emotional ones the last two both of which are like fully like oh my god so um you're on your own kid our first big cry of the night yesterday yeah i was a huge cry i cried my contact oh my god you did yeah and i had to just sort of guide you home like a like a dog you were like where are we mcdonald's dimple street oh where's my bag it's great um and then so long london in talk to poets which again it's just like her processing the end of a relationship that's so difficult for her and like this huge thing and this this album is just like kind of sucks to be the oldest daughter a bit sometimes eh and i think what's good about this is the reason it sucks is that she hasn't really got anything to complain about right now yeah she's in a really healthy relationship.

48:43She knows she needs to write a sad song. Everyone's expecting a sad song. She's in a really healthy relationship. She's just bought her masters back. Yeah. She's getting married. She didn't know that when she was writing this. There's quite simply nothing wrong with her life. But her life is absolutely charmed right now. So she's really kind of digging around, like turning up the sofa cushions, like down the back to be like, well, I guess this can do. You know what sucks? People on the internet being mean. Yeah. Oh, people are, and this very kind of black and white thinking, which is so just wrong, where it's like everyone's so punk on the internet.

49:12I don't know about you but I'm not punk on the internet everybody's unbothered till they're not every joke's just trolling and memes it's just so like there's generalisations about the internet which are completely untrue what do you mean completely untrue I mean it's partly true obviously the thing is it's boring because it's broad it's like yeah we know people are fucking assholes your hot take is that sometimes people on the internet are awful well done you she's not a bad bitch and this isn't savage but she did just say I'm your father figure and I will kill you so you are quite savage. Yeah.

49:44And you can be a bad bitch. I just, I couldn't, I couldn't be bothered with it. Yeah, couldn't be fucked. And every eldest daughter was the first lamb to the slaughter so we all dressed up as wolves and we looked fire. I hate that line so much. I hate it too. And I am an eldest daughter. You're not. It's for you. It's for me. In theory, this is, she said it in the little film, this is, you know, you speak to eldest daughters and they're all the same and I'm like, yeah, but I still don't like this song. I guess if we're taking any gossip from the song on a gossip level, it's when I said I didn't believe in marriage, that was a lie.

50:19When did she say she didn't believe in marriage? She said Lavender Hayes. Oh, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. OK, she did. She did. God, we do know too much. We know too much. It's actually sad. But crucially, where I think this is a hen. Is it a hen night song? this is a hen night song but I still am slightly judging the hens for playing this oh my god how did we miss that father figure is a hen night song however it's also a wedding song yeah so it's the hen night song because obviously you're like I'll be your father it's like great it's just like it's sassy it's cunty it's pointing it's pointing to yourself I'll be your father like it's hands on the chest we all have our hands on our own chest being like I'm the sexy father figure I'm gonna damn my boyfriend yeah i mean we have we have made the kind of the broad assumption that this is a straight hen because say because taylor is the straightest artist of all time i would love to meet the lesbian hen where they're playing taylor swift like yes it might happen i guess um but but i think what's also important is if you are a straight woman going into marriage to a man you are kind of participating in a one of the greatest tools the patriarchy has so it's really important to sing with your girls that your dick is bigger yeah and that you are the father figure it's an important part of your hen do to to reassert your own power when me and uh me and ella did our hen do which i sorry sorry that's not what i mean at all me and ella did not get married happily married but i mean this is actually my advice to anyone who's planning to get married and is gonna have a hen do which is that like do not leave it to surprise do not leave nine women in a group talking about what you might like no three months before my wedding me and ella had like a night we got chinese food and she was like what don't you want i told her everything i don't want and I was just like ideally I want to get dumplings with my friends and then I want to do karaoke until the like really early hours of the morning and then maybe a bit of a dance and I want to be and I want us to all meet up at 6 p.m.

52:14and I also all go home at 2 a.m. and we did exactly that's exactly what we did and like I watched her she wrote the email and I we both made sure that people would be spending that much money or whatever and like just get rid of the whole thing about my hen do should be a surprise and a test for how much my parents my friends love me it is like you plan the night with your maid of honor don't put her through hell don't give her an unpaid job like it's not fair it's not all right and father figure can't remember oh sorry sorry this is what i was going to anyway the hen was such a smash that it got it was i believe it's the only hen dude to get a review in the sunny times

52:53you protect the family by which i mean someone from this i obviously flaked up some pictures on Instagram because I look great. And it was also, I think I looked hotter at my hand than I did at my wedding, which actually is upsetting.

53:10I actually, I don't think I looked that good at my wedding, to be honest. Karen, this is not the time. This is not the time to discuss your ludicrous insecurities, of which there are several that are very funny. I think I look fine, but I think I looked really nice at my head. I think you look great at both of them in two different ways. Sure, it's not about that today. but I'm the I get it um but anyway uh so they they asked if we could write a piece about about the hen I guess because it looked fun I can't believe this happened and Ella wrote in it was like the thing about a hen do is that the wedding is all about weddings are all straight weddings are all about gender roles unless you go out of your way to not make it about gender roles by wearing a pantsuit or whatever and like even then you're doing a thing yeah because you're not doing the other thing it's like it's your you're the soft beautiful feminine bride who everyone talks about is so amazing and looks great and you don't in many straight weddings yeah you don't say a lot you don't do a lot you're sort of looked at which is why the hen do has to be the equal opposite energy where you have to be you know you're grace kelly in one you're peggy bundy in the other do you know what i mean i do know what you mean right yes and that's why father figure is a perfect Hen Knight song because it's you in a fucking sequined jumpsuit and a shitty veil gesturing at your crotch and pretending you have a massive cock.

54:31I'm saying you've got a massive penis. Yeah. It is so important. But then what makes it even better is because it's called Father Figure when you're at the wedding and you... And all of the girlies who have bonded at the hen are like, this is the song that we all went crazy to. You can tell whoever the DJ is who you've paid, you're like, oh, I really want Taylor Swift's Father Figure kind of later in the evening. And this DJ is not going to be familiar with the lyrics of Taylor Swift's Taylor Smith Taylor Swift's father figure and you'll be like the radio edit of course the radio edit importantly and then they will play it quite late in the reception when everyone is pretty drunk and you can dance with your dad and the crucial thing about the radio edit is the line is I can make a deal with the devil because my check's bigger so you don't have to gesture at anyone's crotch in front of your parents and you can sort of drunkenly you can surround the dad and be like thanks if it's that kind of situation thanks for paying for the wedding dad He's paid for the wedding.

55:24He's feeling amazing. He's feeling... I love this wedding so much. He is having the greatest time. But also, all the girlies who are on the hen know the other edit. And they're all like chuckling as well. Because they're like, remember when we had that amazing dance? And we all pretend to have huge shlongs in the club. And now we're thanking Kayleigh's dad for having us. It is a song that crosses boundaries. And he's so delighted. All the girlies are dancing around him. It's connective tissue between the hen and the wedding. And you need that at a wedding. You need a call back to the hen just a reminder of your Peggy Bundy self.

55:59You need it and you get it with Father Figure. But without a store to you, don't. This is the only lens worth looking at this album through. It is truly the only one. Any other takes, henceforth, Don La Poubelle. Yeah. They're gone. We don't care for them. We don't care for them. Yeah, this is, I will not be reading any more Taylor Swift criticism after today because this is the only worthwhile lens. Yeah, the only one's going to write. Is it a wedding? Is it a hen? Is it both? yeah eldest daughter is a wedding song no I think eldest daughter is a hen song yeah because every hen needs to have a crying moment oh I suppose yeah you're right when I said I didn't want to get married that was a lie do you know what you're right and you can't sing because I'm not a bad bitch at your own wedding can you yeah you can't I'm sorry for my egregious error of judgement the thing is hen do or hen weekend it has levels there are downbeat moments there are big talky oh wow we're all sitting on the beach in brighton and i'm talking about like how i never really knew myself until now and like yeah whatever no you're right it is i still don't like it i didn't think i wanted to get married and now does it make me really basic that i do oh no am i basic yeah no you're right it is a nice song um the only thing that i enjoy about this song is yesterday when we were having a drink before we went dancing we were talking about the kind of weird mismatch between the visuals that were released for this album before they came out and then what happened and like the visuals that were released in the lead up to the to to this album coming out were sort of like it was like lady marmalade you know it was like she's watched a lot of moulin rouge it was giving kind of boudoir photo shoot by that you do for your husband yeah That's so true.

57:44She is wearing like a rhinestone G-string in everything. And to be fair, her ass looks amazing. Her body looks incredible. She looks like Wonder Woman at the moment. I would only wear a rhinestone G-string. Unbelievable. But then, like we were talking about it, I was like, what's so weird is that I've got this visual in my mind of her like wearing a rhinestone G-string whilst singing about falling off a swing and breaking her arm when she's eight. And then, in the cinema today, in the lyric video, it's Taylor Swift sitting in a rhinestone g-string playing the piano and going I broke my arm when I was eight and it's just so incongruous the cognitive dissonance of the image and the lyric is like why are you wearing a rhinestone g-string to tell me that you you broke your arm when you were eight it's so weird and you feel sad sometimes about being the eldest daughter but you're wearing like a feathered headdress it's so it's so strange that this is called Life of a Showgirl yeah yeah it is when it should have been call hen party and wedding.

58:43It should have been. She called, now that's what I call hen party. And wedding also. A two in one. A two in one. But that's the thing I like most about this song is just the image of her singing this in her rhinestone g-string. Yeah. So funny to me. I'm here on my rhinestone g-string. I broke my arm when I was eight. And also, a guy from school is dead.

59:14okay hang on i want to try an experiment what so we're both lying on the couch right now can we do that thing that you do with your siblings when you're small and you put your feet together and you like sort of use like a force as we talk i want to see if it i want to see if it changes the energy of the pot this foot is different no this you need to match the feet you've got to match the feet your left foot your left foot is wrong okay there we go it's hard because you feel bigger than mine um get out of my house i've got such tiny little tiny little feet it's actually such a problem i feel like sabrina carpenter doing this with taylor swift

59:51they are sevens like that is that is a lot they're actually completely normally sized feet i guess mine are just so small

1:00:01oh yeah the next one is the other one the ruin the friendship this is the one where someone died from school and it's it's kind of about me really what do you mean it's about you no it's like it's taylor being like the thing is someone i went to school is dead it's kind of about me kind of vaguely was like yeah it's happened to a few people i know yeah you know when you get older and then you have people from school who died and then you go and be like, I should have kissed you. I understand that there will be a contingency of people who will love this song more than any on the album. It is not for me.

1:00:36It's a skip for me. Oh, I think it's nice. But I'm also just like, not a speak now girly. I'm not a fearless girly. Right, it is that, yeah. And it's very like three verses and like, oh wow, and like, no. It's very country and Western song. No, you're right, it is. But I think there's a certain charm to it and I think the central idea of it, Your legs are so much longer than mine that you're going to have to bring this in. Do you want me to stop doing the leg thing? No, it's fine. It's going to distract you. It's okay. It's just got to remember that I'm really short.

1:01:06I think there's something about that thing of like not letting go of chances. I think she has got something nice. And it's a very simple and a very obvious and cliche thing to say. But we should say it more. Like if you have an opportunity, you should just give it a go. You know? Just have a crack. You know? Kiss the man. Again, she's so psychologically untroubled at the moment that she's like, you know what, give it a go. You know what? You miss every shot you don't take. It's just her song doing that, but in quite a sort of melancholy, country-western way. Yeah, like, listen, it's not a song that I'm going to be thinking about loads and loads in the way that I'll think about Father Figure and Elizabeth Taylor.

1:01:41But, like, when it comes on, I'm not going to, like, not bop along to it. I'm going to be like... Yeah, I mean, it's fine. I don't care about it at all. What's crucial, I suppose, as a question, Is it hen or is it wedding? Oh. Wedding, I think. It's wedding, yeah. It's one of those wedding songs that, like, it has a romantic melody, like, slow dance melody to it. And should I, should have kissed you anyway feels like, oh, so glad that we kissed and that we're here. Mm-hmm. And it's just like, yeah, it does for a slow dance moment. It also feels wedding-y in the sense of a wedding is often a place where you see people that you could have gotten off with in previous lives or maybe you did get off with at the last wedding.

1:02:21and it's like oh god we've got all this history i think it does i think it does a public service in both of those scenarios one someone that you have always wanted to get off with you see at the wedding this is your opportunity yeah you know yeah you're at school with them you're like he's still kind of hot he seems single i'm just gonna ruin the friendship yeah that it gives you cover if you have previously as you say got off with someone you shouldn't have and you're dancing together and you can just kind of point at one another as you do and go whoopsie oh remember kissing that's a shame and like and it's just a nice icebreaker yeah yeah yeah it's also probably good if one of your friends died i don't know it might be useful then because you do think i think at weddings you do think about people who aren't there oh yeah and this is like it's not so melancholy that you're going to be like we're all weeping on the dance floor but i think it's kind of a nice like acknowledgement that almost every wedding there is someone who should be there isn't there because they are unwell or or dead god this wedding lens is absolutely bulletproof isn't it it's bulletproof i haven't i haven't found a crack in it yet no but i think it gives that that kind of moment for you to just be like you know you can all kind of have a little meaningful look at like someone you know and be like yeah it'd be cool if this if that person was there wouldn't it but we're not gonna spend so long dwelling on it yeah it's a verse only it's a verse only that's what it needs thank you taylor thank you taylor for your perfect wedding album

1:04:11The next one on the list is see that video in full it is it is on garrida's instagram yes and it's very good and actually i have to say weirdly accurate um i mean i've had a few comments in the video since since the albums come out and people have been like this was so accurate i was like yeah it kind of is but it's kind of what all the albums have been about for a while which is that like my experience of being famous my experiences of having my boyfriend and my experience of having people i'm angry with like that is true you know however as part of this mind mapping exercise gavin was also involved and Gavin made Gavin who does not care about Taylor Swift at all does and barely knows a thing about her you know beyond what he's but he does love Charlie he loves Charlie we're a big Charlie house in this house as well 100 % you know we can play both teams here but Gav was like oh well obviously there has to be a clap back to Charlie and we were like whoa imagine imagine because of anyone who's not in the Charlie bandwagon because on Charlie's I'm Brat she released a song called Sympathy is a Knife and it is a beautiful song that is so vulnerable and so catchy and so brilliant and you can hear on the dance floor, but you can also hear it in your headphones and cry.

1:05:16And it's like, oh, this is like, you make me so insecure. I'm going out with one of the guys from the 975. You're going out with one of the guys from the 975. You're the biggest pop star in the world. It really sucks not being you and it's tearing me apart. It's not necessarily about you, but you do make me feel like shit. And it's so, it's such a vulnerable piece of songwriting. She's like, I really do think Charlie did deserve that. she got the Ivor Develo award this year didn't she for songwriting I don't know she did yeah okay yeah and she deserves it there's some fucking great songs and that is one of the greatest songs she's ever done it's a great song but obviously we're like but we're like okay well there's got to be a clap back and we're there going well Taylor Swift's not going to clap back she's not going to care that much and Gavin's like no she's going to do Sympathy is a Life you know and then I remember we both dropped our pens and we were like whoa whoa Sympathy is a Life and like it's going to be a song about how Taylor is kind of bored of how she always has to just be nice to everyone around her and make and hold space for them and make them feel good and it's just going to be a clap back to charlie xcx now obviously actually romantic is not called sympathy is a life but it does have the exact the exact condescending tone that i was hoping for in sympathy sympathy is so condescending it's so like sweetly saccharine sympathetic whilst also absolutely with a stiletto in it you know yeah It's a knife in the dark.

1:06:39It's so funny. You know what? Like, I think it's a funny camp. It's very of the, in the Bad Blood tradition. Like, Bad Blood is not a very good song. No. But it's just like, because it's kind of camp, it has its place in the canon. Yeah. But like, I was very much like, for the last, before we went to the cinema event today, I was like, yeah, like, Jen's into it more than I am. But I fundamentally believe that like, Charlie created something really incredible. And Taylor's thing is like, it's not big. It's not clever. I know there's been a lot of like talking about like punching up and punching down I personally don't really believe in punching down as a thing um I think that your your take is either clever or it isn't and I was like this is not a clever take like this is like this is just being like haha you're a bit gay and I thought it was like a little bit homophobic I'm like I don't know I don't really love this I'm like okay um but then when Taylor's introducing it in the movie I finally kind of got it I was like she was like yeah the thing is is that you know sometimes you find out that you're this huge thing in other people's narrative and you're like wow I don't think about you that way at all but wow like and I was like oh wow the reason it's a shallow like kind of stupid Regina George hit back it's like she's kind of I can't do a response as deep as your one because I don't feel that deeply about you right and actually doing a shallow dumb song is almost like its own form of worst revenge it totally is and it just kind of it it's exactly what was needed in that moment i think i also do think and obviously charlie xx is charlie is the obvious kind of main subject of this song but as always with taylor swift songs there are multiple subjects and i think this is as much about donald trump and about every boring person who's written an article on substack about how they uniquely don't like taylor swift and she's just kind of like why are you so obsessed with me why are you writing yeah another thought piece about how you don't like music just don't fucking listen you're so right this this song could it so easily could be about every girl on substank it there's so many people who this song is about and it's just that for the purposes of narrative fiction she's been like i'm gonna sort of slightly locate it in charlie xdx but if you actually listen to the lyrics at no point does she say anything bad about charlie xdx the thing that locates it is the reference to coke at the beginning yeah that makes you be like oh that sounds like it's kind of bad i heard you call me boring barbie when the coke's got you yeah and the high-fiving my ex and therefore the proximity to her ex so it's those two things but at no point does she say anything about Charlie as a person, as a writer, as an artist.

1:09:08She's just kind of like, why are you obsessed with me? So it's not, I don't, I feel like, again, I don't know. I'm not a recording artist, but Charlie XX is a very powerful recording artist at this point in time. She is very good. She's very celebrated. She's very cool. She put that song out knowing full well that it was obviously about Taylor Swift and that Taylor Swift would obviously. And primed for the response, I imagine. And fully, there's no world. I'm sorry, if you're Charlie XX and you put that song out and you don't expect some kind of riposte. Like, what are you doing in this business?

1:09:37And I fully believe that when she heard that song on Friday, her response wasn't like, oh no, Taylor's been mean. She was just like, ah, well played, well played, my old foe. You're so right. Oh, well played, Philip, a good, a good hand of dog. My indefatigable good form. Oh, couldn't run it better myself, old boy. Like, it's like in the UN negotiating table. Totally. It's a good Sally across the bow, that is. I've got Sally across the bow. I have no idea what that means, but I loved it. I think it was both maritime and land combat put together there. But I feel like that's her response. She's not going to be upset by this.

1:10:16It's a funny song. It's funny to compare someone to a tiny chihuahua in a purse. It's so like weirdly 2004. To compare someone to a purse dog. And then to be like, you're making me wet with your insults. It's funny. it's funny it's very yeah real housewives it's so real housewives oh my god you're so right it's so real housewives i love it it's so stupid it's so stupid and it's for those curious it's a hen song it's obviously a hen song it's about that girl who's not here who we used to be friends with yes oh my god it's so that you need that there was there's every hen involves a level of there's a girl who was invited and didn't come and now there's a girl who's invited who's like the bottom hen in the pecking order like who's kind of the district 12 of that hen there is oh my god there's always a district there's always a district 12 of the hen the dobby the house elf there's like there's there's always something like that and there's always like a level of kind of yeah like shakespearean like plotting and people being like oh like factions you know not always but i think a lot of the time there is.

1:11:28Yeah. So actually romantic, it could be about like his mental ex who's getting back in contact for no reason. It could be about anyone. It could be anyone. Any girl you have beef with and like the girls at the hen know that there's a girl that you have beef with. There's going to be a beef somewhere in that hen. Whether it's a beef that's present, a beef that's absent, a beef that exists only in your imaginations, there will be a beef and one of the joys of putting together 10 to 20 random women is discovering the beef and then eating together. So right. sampling it and then like there's like three or four girls who are intimate with the beef and then there's like satellite girls being well show me your fucking Instagram come on pull her up pull her up give us a love and saying things like well it's a special place in hell for people like her isn't there you know it's important absolutely going in on someone you've never met and they will never know you didn't know before tonight and they will never know and they will never know it's so important it's a hen song and it's an important part of the hen it's a late late part of the hen everyone you know you have shaken hands and said goodbye to sobriety at the crossroads some hours previously you know you have kissed him on the forehead and you've said sobriety I'll see you in the morning maybe you are off your tits you stop just short of phoning her you are let's call her oh my god shall we call her and then someone who still has like still has their gruff in the garage we can't call her you are you're gone you know maybe it's as you go to McDonald's yeah it could be your prospective mother-in-law it could be your prospective sister-in-law like it could be anyone and the great irony is of course they're probably not thinking about you but you're thinking about them.

1:12:57Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's why this song is great. And it's for hens. It's a hen. God. It's a hen classic. Incredible. Incredible work. Do you have anything else on that one? No, truly, I've said everything I need to say about Actually Romantic. I don't know about any of the other lyrics that are in it. It's great. It's great. I mean, yeah, the song has been discussed to death already. And it's only been out for three days. Even when we were in our extremely subdued screening of the film thing, whatever whatever what is it even called I don't know it's a cinema event cinema event life of a showgirl party yeah Taylor Swift's boomerangs and zoom calls and target ads and target ads but that was the only song that people had a response to because obviously it's only been three days and people have lives not us that was like the only one they really knew because it had been the subject of discourse yeah it's funny how like Charlie just got married and like Taylor's about to get married it's all very interesting yeah pop is entering its wife era is a headline I read and did not click into.

1:13:57Oh, don't. Don't do that. Feels like the miracle of that will be the title. No, absolutely not. What's after this? What's after this one? We don't know the album so well yet that we could tell you what's after it without looking up on the computer. After Actually Romantic, it is wishlist. Oh, that's my almost skip of this album as well. But I can talk about it. Yeah, but once again, I don't think it's a smart song at all, but it is a bit of a bop. It is a bop. And the reason it's not yet hidden in my Spotify is because it is quite good to sing along to. The reason it may well be hidden in my Spotify is because it's annoying.

1:14:28And I would hear it at the club but not in my own house. And the reason, I just think, I just think it's a bad look for her, this song. Because when, again, she introduces it on this film and she's like, this is all about the beautiful, amazing dreams that people have for themselves. And like, oh, I really support all their dreams. And this is mine. and then you listen to it and you're like that is not what this song is about these people's dreams this is you taking a dump on people's uh kind of to your mind quite venal and like silly dreams which is indicated by the use of the dollar sign in every s in the lyric video yeah yeah yeah you the richest woman in the world who has all these things who has to have them you could have them if you wanted could have them if they wanted them yeah you're being mean about everyone else's things that they want but you just want a boyfriend apparently and you want a best friend who you think is hot and that's a great line again great for the wedding great for the wedding this is one it's like father figure it's a wedding oh it's fully the emphasis will change it's fully this one and I think definitely a very wedding but I think what's weird about it is and I feel like you have to do an intertextual reading between two other songs with this one number one is her own song Bejeweled right a song where she says Baby Boy I Think I've Been a Little Too Kind where she talks about the ways in which she removed herself from the public eye and from the thing that she loves which is being an amazing musical performing artist and is returning to the spotlight covered in shimmer because she doesn't just want a boyfriend she also wants a very successful career she wants to be an apex predator of pop music which be fair she has openly been going after for her entire career and has achieved so I don't believe she just wants a man and she doesn't just want a house in the basketball hoop but I also think it's worth reading in the context of britney spears classic work bitch which is the inverse of work bitch it's the inverse of work bitch because britney spears work bitch for those who don't know it is very much the same like oh you want a maserati you want a hot body you're just listing things you just just she lists things that you might want um and that you might need you might want you might want my favorite one party in france party in france party in france it doesn't matter which bit though yeah anyway just fine party in france do you just be just you know some kind of bonkers that song is bonkers i love it it's bonkers but what's really important about that song is just like taylor swift she's listing out things that you could achieve if you had a load of money and where taylor then goes no i don't want that britney's like work for it bitch and taylor has worked bitch she has worked so hard for 20 years to achieve all of these things and now she's like no I didn't even really want them but she does still want them and the other thing that is so annoying about this song is I just paid 20 pounds to go and see this in the cinema right?

1:17:18Not even a video just a boomerang She has this is this is there are so many versions of this album available for sale right now I don't there's like 16 versions there is so much I do not I had a problem with that I work in advertising I am a demand engine generator right here Taylor Swift is really committed to remaining very, very, very, very, very wealthy. And I have no idea what she's going to do with that money because she bought her masters back. Like, is she going to create a colony on Mars called Swiftopia? Is she going to become a philanthropist? What is the money for? She has got the most manky looking cardigan you can buy for this album that she was wearing in part of that behind the scenes thing.

1:17:59It looks manky. It looks so itchy and uncomfortable to wear. It's like a glitter wool fabric. It's definitely not real wool. it's not gonna wash well it's not gonna wash well some bits are gonna shrink some bits are not gonna it looks vile it looks horrid and I think I have no problem with her using her career to earn money that is what we all do with our jobs yeah but I think to then write a song being like and I don't even want all this stuff I just want my boyfriend you're like no don't lie don't lie to my face don't lie to my face don't insult my intelligence I can see you I just paid for this and I'll pay again what is all the money for what is it for it has to She has to be doing a Dollywood at some point.

1:18:37She's got to do something with it. There has to be some big thing. Because like, yeah, like, we've all seen her clothes. She doesn't even like stuff that much. Do you know what I mean? She wears the most, like, she famously wears Reformation. I mean, obviously she wears fancy designs. Oh, she looks amazing. Yeah, but like. She occasionally references Cartier, but like, there's only so much Cartier you can buy. Yeah, yeah. She's at the point of wealth now, where even if she never did anything else again, her wealth would continue to let her live at an extraordinary level of luxury. So she is working for something, but what is it why make all these versions that like everyone thinks is tacky and weird even your fan like it's clear like it's mercenary like holding your biggest fans over a barrel because you know they'll buy everything because they're the completionist because you bred a disease into them like because there are enough people that do that by literally every version i do feel very sad for them and like who didn't love them correctly i don't know but like the like it feels very like you're taking advantage of mental illness.

1:19:35Also, just a moment for the weirdest line, I think, in this song. Have a couple of kids get the whole block looking like you. Yeah, I know. I don't know if she thought that one through. There's only one way that the whole block could look like your husband. If you're studying him out like a racehorse. Is he the milkman? Yeah. I was like, I don't know if that's... You're going to have to have more than a couple of kids for that to happen. Well. Odd. Odd song. Gotta play at the wedding but it'll also be at a point in the wedding where no one really is listening to the lyrics because everyone's just like having a nice time dancing.

1:20:13it's a great opportunity to point. I just want you. Exactly. I just want you have a couple of kids you can point at the bride and groom again. And also the kids that are still present. Yeah. You can also kind of people like to think about stuff that's expensive. Someone will support Real Madrid and be like yeah, Real Madrid. Someone else. Or no, do you know what? Whatever the groom's football team is, it'll be that. Yeah. Tottenham! Yeah, and that contract with Tottenham! Come on, you spurs! There's something for the boys here, you know? For the lads. The next one is Wood. Oh my God. I actually love it.

1:20:52Oh, this is one of our great predictions coming true. Yes, the day the pictures of her in her rhinestone G-string came out, you texted me and I have the timestamp saying it was like 11th of August or whatever. Yeah. I was like saying, once I'm finished listening to this album, I expect to be able to pick Travis Kelsey's dick out of a six dick lineup.

1:21:16And boy, we had no preparations for how right you were going to be. Oh, I was right. You were so, and it's so crazy that you were right because this woman has written so many albums and so many songs. She has never been explicit about male genitalia in her career before. Never once. She's not been much of an innuendo girly. Like she's obviously loves her wordplay and her little fancy word games. Totally. But she's never just gone with my boyfriend has a massive cock before. And I love it. And I love it. I love getting married by my boyfriend and his big dick. What a fantastic offering she has made.

1:21:56it's so camp it's so funny good people are so angry about it they are furious are they people are furious about it no idea it's so funny because i mentioned sub stack earlier on i do think that in a very fascinating way sub stack is becoming the worst social it really i mean i have a sub stack and i use it sometimes um mostly on the days where i miss twitter i like writing some bits every now and then but like for all this as like with every platform there's good bits there's bad bits but there's a real chunk of it that's like people who they have internalized the my feelings are valid to the point where they think my feelings are global news and so they have this way of writing that is incredibly um sniffy and pretentious but also so raw and butthurt at the same time where and like the tone of all of these posts that have been about Life of a Showgirl have all been the same.

1:22:57They've all been like, I love Taylor Swift more than anyone. I was right there at the Speak Now tour. Look, here's a photo of me. And it's because, it's because I love Taylor Swift more than anyone. I am totally confident saying that this album is a war crime. This is an insult to everything the Swifties have been defending for years. And so basically, I think what the root of the annoyance and the fan anger is that I'm seeing so much of is that people have been defending Taylor Swift and their love of Taylor Swift for years. It's a bit like being a Disney adult. It's like, yeah, I know it does.

1:23:35It's very, but daddy, I love him. But daddy, I love him. Right. It's like, and they've been pointing to these rich, lyrical, incredible similes and metaphors and all that stuff that we know is in the catalog that is brilliant and genius. And then she comes out with something like this. And obviously non-fans are starting to hear about now because like she's talking about Travis Kelsey's dick. Everyone's like, literally I was at my friend's house this morning and like her boyfriend was like, oh, I heard she wrote a song about her boyfriend's dick. Like he's never listened to Taylor Swift. I was like, oh, this is like what everyone's going to know about Taylor for the next year.

1:24:03And like, it's so, all the girlies who have been dedicating their lives to saying she's the next Bob Dylan feel so betrayed. Like Taylor, you're making me look like an idiot. And that's what makes it even funnier and better. I think this song is perfect. I'm so glad it's on there it's joyful it's joyful was it on your first listen that you realised it was about a dick or was it on the second interestingly I think it was maybe the second time I think the first time I was like and then the second time that I heard it I was kind of like oh so she released two versions on Spotify yes she released a radio edit version which for some reason when I tapped it on Spotify Friday morning that was the version I got there's only one word change though I know but I think it does make a difference so and that is the one thing where I do like that she does have like clever radio edits she does she does it well on Father Figure it's like my check's bigger my check's bigger yeah that's good and like the on this song it's he his love was the key that opened my skies and obviously in the explicit version it's my thighs she wants she always wanted her music to be a safe place for seven year olds to go and she's got it and she's got it and like it was just amazing to me looking around the dance floor last night of the song that's been out for three days and everyone was dancing like it was a jackson five song and it does kind of sound like a jackson five song and it's so camp and it's so dumb it's so upbeat and so silly and even when she was introducing it in the cinema event we will not call it a movie it was a cinema event thing we saw it was it's like all of her little monologues about these songs are like three or four minutes long at least and for this one she just goes knock on a song about superstitions and black cats and knocking on wood and um stuff like that and then it just goes to the summer it's really fun it's really charming i just think it's perfect i think it's i just think it's very it's a very funny and actually fairly classy way to talk about your boyfriend's big dick and also like frankly we've done one this earlier and you know who's not going to catch some strays right now the slammer for once because we know from reputation that that man fucks.

1:26:15Yeah. What we don't know is Mattie Healy. But I'm thinking no. So I think the trajectory of her sex life for the last eight years or whatever, whatever brings us back to day one, Jo Elwyn. I think her and Jo Elwyn were having really great sex for a couple of years at least. I think he's a real, goes down on you like a champion. Oh, 100%. Really into it. Probably like great dirty talk as well. Oh, yeah. Probably like a bit, a bit of play, a bit of fun and games, a bit of, maybe he'll tie you up, a bit of this. Yeah. But then I think they did suffer from some bad death during folklore, evermore, etc.

1:26:48Yeah, they were stuck in the house together for a very long time. They've been in each of those pockets. There's no intimacy. Well, there's too much intimacy. Too much intimacy and therefore no eroticism. Exactly. And the last couple of years, it's like, oh, first it's every three months, then it's every six months. Then it's like, how has it been a year since we fucked? And that is incredibly common with many couples I've spoken to. As you say, behind every beautiful woman, a man who doesn't fuck her enough. It's so funny, isn't it? That's a Lena Dunham phrase. Behind every woman is a man who's tired of fucking her.

1:27:19Well, listen. Right? A wonderful lineage for a phrase. And so, okay. And so, and I think during that time, as we know from Folklore and Evermore, which are two albums about Maddie Healy who won't stop texting her. And he's texting her absolute filth. And she's so excited by it. And then she finally gets with him and his dick doesn't work that well because he's on so many drugs. And it's a real limp experience. Yeah. and it's a lot of like stabby fingering I think yeah I think they do have some great shags but I'm sure they had some good ones but like also that probably again those moments when you're with someone who's like at the wrong side of substances yeah and everything's just a bit too messy and you're just a bit like oh I just well okay you've got no hand-eye coordination right now yeah yeah you don't you can't hit a rhythm no sense of object permanence what's going why why did you oh so no please don't do that oh my god There was probably a lot of that.

1:28:13And so then to move on to like... Some absolute top shelf, classic, uncomplicated P and V behavior. And just like, he's going to throw you around. He is an athlete. Like he spent his whole life running around and tackling men. Like he's going to have incredibly good cardiovascular fitness. You know, like you're going to be able to like hang a guilt mirror off his cock. You know what I mean?

1:28:43And you would be delighted. It would be like Christmas and birthday all in one. Right, and he probably doesn't drink very much. No, he's going to be very healthy. He's going to be very healthy, and people who don't drink, they want to have sex a lot more. Oh! I'm so pleased for her. Right? A hard rock is coming her way. Yeah. She's not being cocky about it. Redwood Tree. I'm so pleased for her. And it's, do you know what? It is, of all the songs on this album, it is the biggest hen. it's also I think one of the biggest wedding though really because of course radio edit for the hen do we even need to explain why this is a hen song yeah no however put it on the dance floor at the wedding people who haven't heard it so your seven year old again this is the radio edit and it's all it's got the great sort of Motown-y feel to it yeah you've got your grandma you've got yeah some family members who don't really listen to the radio they're enjoying knocking on wood they're all miming knock knock knock on wood yeah Yeah.

1:29:41They don't know because it's not on the first listen. And then you catch eyes with the girlies who do know. And they know. Yeah. The first listen, you don't hear the penis innuendo. So it gets through once. Yeah. It's only when the parents of the small children hear it maybe a couple of weeks later that they're like, was my seven-year-old dancing to a song about Travis Kelsey's penis? And then it's kind of still funny because they didn't know. They're kids. Yeah. No one knew. It's a wedding song and a hen song but it's primarily a hen song. But it's one that gets the encore at the wedding. and everyone loves it for different reasons.

1:30:13Totally. It might be if the bride and groom are still doing the garter thing. Might happen around then. The bride and groom are having a moment. Maybe they steal off during this song for a little, you know, a little snog and a tiny bit of heavy petting. Important moment. Right? Important moment. A reminder that the wedding is also about being horny for those two people. His love was the key that opened my thighs. Fucking good for you, bitch. good for you good for you good for you bitch good for you I am delighted for her she's gonna have a great wedding she is she's doing the press at the moment she's inviting everyone she's inviting Graham Norton she's inviting that guy where's our invite where's our invite come on we'll be cool we all know which songs to dance to oh next song is cancelled enjoyable wonderful silly but enjoyable yeah to me my struggle with the song originally was I was kind of like people who actually get cancelled like truly cancelled it's usually for like being pedophiles or Nazis so I don't know that those are your people but I think she's using it in a looser sense of the word she also wrongly thinks that she has been cancelled for every person who's like oh we really didn't like that you EG molested your relative Like or whatever With respects to Woody Allen But like For every one of that there are One million more like Blame and I believe it was bitchy on the press tour Yeah Remember when she made that woman feel bad about being pregnant I guess let's burn her hair off Like It's like it's just I do think the kind of cancellation she's referring to Which is basically like did you enjoy yourself in public as a woman too much today yeah yeah no you're right and i think when she does the intro on the on the cinematic experience you kind of get that level but i think yeah like taylor swift has never actually been truly cancelled i don't know because she was briefly that kim and kanye stuff i think we forget how big it was it was a big day it's been a look every album that we talk about of hers and this is the third we go she's gonna have to get over that one day and she still hasn't and we said it last time and i'm sure we'll say it again there will be in her next album another song about the kim and kanye thing yeah there's a long long old tale on this but at least so in tortured poets the song that was mainly talking about it was um thank you amy yeah which sucked it did really suck but like cancel is really good i will i enjoy dancing to this because it moves the narrative on it's like this has happened to me so many times i now and also it's like it's like the private jet stuff you know whatever it's you know which obviously is indefensible but like you know she's never far from catching critiques from the culture or whatever and i do like her positioning herself as being like you know something happens to sabrina carpenter she's like yeah it's okay yeah fine yeah she literally says you want to go get lunch or she's very charming the way she talks about it totally and things like sophie turner like getting criticism for like being at her job without her children like yeah having to say you know they've got a father as well absolutely i think the people that we're talking about i just think cancelled is overused in our in our general as a word it's a term that people haven't really got an idea of what it means and what it doesn't mean it's too loose and too broad it covers too many bases between someone who has been rightly removed from the public eye for being a criminal and someone who's just says anything about dumb is like experiencing pushback yeah yeah i think what she's right though that like those do all sound the same she said something in the interview where she was like you don't have to be a public figure to feel cancelled in that way everyone has that moment where they just feel like several group chats are talking about them at once oh yeah right true true and you're like oh no i know i know it's happening and it doesn't feel good um it is also just a bit of a banger to be honest yeah right it's got vigilante shit yes energy to it I prefer it to vigilante shit to be honest yeah it's because it's I like that it's like a protective vibe as well uh I like them I like them covered in Gucci and in Scandal it's a sexy line I think if there's any piece of merch I would like to own from his album which I won't because she never makes good merch ever is a t-shirt that's a line from this song which is tone deaf and hot.

1:34:50Tone deaf and hot is so funny. It is so funny. Taylor Swift's team, if you're listening, just come on. Tone deaf and hot. Just offer up that bit of merch. Just be like it would be funny and many people would buy it. Yeah, don't make me make it myself. I'm not that person. I think you are actually. I don't make things. Okay, they wouldn't make it. But if someone's ended to me, I'd wear it. Yeah. Hey, me too. Oh, fantastic. I think we're into our final two tracks, aren't we now? I believe so unless I've missed unless I this album that I know extremely well came out three days ago unless I'm wrong about that by the way cancelled is a hen night song is a what sorry cancelled is a hen night song of course it's a hen night song yeah you don't sing that song and also you're like good things I like my friends you've got your arms around your friends you're really like you're pulling them into the crook of your arm your fucking sweaty face is so near to their sweaty face yeah this probably like oh we're such bad bitches we've smoked right yeah Yeah, it's a similar part of the evening to the one where you, to actually romantic.

1:35:50Yeah. You've had your bitching session. Yeah, and it's kind of like trying to get back that energy from earlier. You're like, mm-mm, mm-mm. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you don't pay this at the wedding. Yeah. The thing about any hen do, especially the ones that go on for longer than like a day, is like you need sort of redirect women sometimes. Sometimes you'll just go outside and like there'll be four girls talking really intensely about like how one girl is not having a great time at work and it's like i'm so glad that we're all active listeners and they were all empaths but you guys need to break it up right now we need to go back in and dance yeah so we're gonna have cancelled tone deaf and hot get out here yeah get out here you stupid bitch come on get in loser we're off to be tone deaf and no more talking outside we are dancing indoors come on come on it just it like it starts to play through the house and everyone's like, okay, we're back in.

1:36:40We're back in. Someone's drinking Prosecco straight from the bottle and getting it all down themselves. Greyhound. Greyhound. Can't wait to be there. Our penultimate song? It is Honey. A song that I'm like, I like it, broadly unbothered by, but you like, and as we mentioned earlier, clarinet solo. So immediately a wedding song. I love the clarinet solo. Immediately. It's beautiful. It is. Lovely instrument. Again, this is just Lover, part two. it is it is the song that when she needs to have an instrumental yeah like maybe as people maybe it's maybe it's a processional maybe it says people are arriving at the reception yeah and she needs like an acoustic instrumental cover of one of her songs it's honey this is taylor swift specifically a lovely song to walk down the aisle to an instrumentation of this song you know yeah you don't you don't want with the lyrics because then you get people saying that you don't can't fit in a skirt but it's the right it's got the right tune it's our melody yeah and then it's instrumental it's a slow it's so down near the end of the night the the couples that are left you know all the people all the people who like uh have babysitters have gone to relieve them all the oldies have kind of gone home but the few people who are like they're in a couple but maybe they don't have they're not that deep in parenting yet yeah they're just like oh we're still partying and we're still up and we're sort of having a bit of a drunk, slow, sexy, slow dance.

1:38:04They're going to have a lovely time. Yeah. That's me, by the way. That's me. That's you. That's the actual version, but there's also, there is an instrumental version of it. Yeah. Prediction, it's going to be in the next season of Bridgerton as one of the covers. You know how they do? It's going to be in there. Yeah. And I like it. I think it's sweet. I think it's very, it is very much the song of I've never been in love before, not even one time. it's her elizabeth gilbert it is her this is my first time this is my first time being in love i never every other person who ever called me a pet name actually hated me and was mean uh rather than i mean she's been called a lot of pet names by a lot of men and it was clearly fine at the time in the cinema event she was like oh this is a um when people say they're talking she's talking about internet parlance she's like honey no and like sweetie no kind of thing and when she was talking i was like i get that you're talking about mean people on the internet you do sound a bit homophobic you know you do sound like you're doing a limp wrist action as you say this i was like what happened to miss americana taylor i thought you loved gay people yeah you need to calm down remember remember that yeah i think that was a bit of a that was tone deaf and hot what can we say it was a toned up and heart moment from her but yeah i think listen i think it's i think it's quite sweet that she is absolutely adamant that the past doesn't exist even that there is there is so so much recorded material that exists that shows that she has in fact been in love before is this the song where some of the lyrics are like i thought it would never happen is this that was literally this you know and you're like honey honey you have thought it would happen multiple times yeah it really does if you were hearing the song for the first time you would think it was written by a woman who was like oh did this girl just never have a boyfriend before and she like was late to coming to relationships right no no this girl's famously had many boyfriends yeah and just again i just think this is a song where a lot of the lyrics really call back to lover for me and oh in her intro she talks about um how when they recorded this song from the first songs they recorded they really were like yeah we realized we had a whole new album and it's so different and then you listen to it and she's talking about like summertime spritz pink skies that's immediately the lover cover to me yeah yeah yeah like winter green kiss all mine very evermore you could be my forever night stand honey i feel like she's had that lyric in her phone since she wrote the song lover yeah like then you know you touched my face redefined all of those blues very lover era a lot of this song is very lover era and i will not be buying the fiction don't lie to my face don't lie to my face again you didn't write this all of this for the first time then but it is a really useful song for weddings and then finally we have life of a showgirl life of a showgirl look i like it fine it's fine uh yeah i've never been great now to be honest on her like mid-century play yes i know yes your least favorite thing is when taylor swift is like and i am like when she's being like mr ben or something she decided to wear a different hat for the day and today her hat is showgirl sometimes i find it so cringe like you know i was smoking my cigarette like yeah i find her fiction very hard to handle her name was kitty hey man pretty and witty it's giving it's giving carrie's novel in i'm just like that

1:41:46it's so carrie's novel it's the woman it's very the woman it's very the woman staring out across the balcony at the carts.

1:42:02It's kind. I think it's a lovely song. I think it is a lovely closer and it will be really good for closing tours and also weddings. Yeah, yeah. It is like a closing. It's a real wind down song and you need that. She hasn't always landed the wind downs well in her previous album. I really do enjoy the shift from you know, you're sweet as a peach and soft as a kitten and she's like, oh my god I'm looking at this woman and she did this amazing performance with all the other dancehall girls and by the end she's like, those fucking bitches in the dancehall who hate me, but I won't die I'll live forever It's crazy It's quite good I like that, I like that shift I like that So what, you know, again the negotiating tables that we don't see behind the scenes in the music industry and the probably in many ways if you're a woman in the music industry your whole life is a really long hen do you're constantly involved in certain dramas and who's the queen bee and who isn't your life is a hen do it's a hen do or it's a wedding and this song could be hen do as well it could be end of the night for hen do it could be end of the night for wedding it feels like leaving a venue doesn't it It does feel like, yeah.

1:43:19The whole song feels that way. I mean, the end where they say, thank you for coming really makes it easy. It's also, again, one of the sort of, when I was listening on my own in my headphones, one of the greatest challenges I had with this album before I went out and danced to it is a challenge of my own making, which was the mental kind of alignment of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey with Yzma and Kronk from the Empress New Groove. Yes, that's who they are. An alignment that they have done nothing to dispel in any of their public appearances, where he just plays into Himbo and talks about how much he'd like to have an otter be his best friend.

1:44:02Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, he's so Kronk. And I'm like, I have to try and mentally separate the two, and it's hard. And the other thing that makes this hard is this song, The Life of a Showgirl, because Yzma could be singing it. I mean obviously Yzma becomes the king's like the emperor's advisor but like she's wearing a showgirl outfit the whole time in the oh my god Yzma does wear she wears the big ostrich feathers and her tits are out and she's like an old showgirl she's getting closer and closer to Yzma she's getting closer and closer and that thing of like I'm immortal yeah I'm like that's Yzma she does the voice she even does the voice where it's kind of like kind of cabaret Hey, I'm a model, baby doll.

1:44:49It's an easement voice. Oh my God. It was all coming to this. I'm sorry about that. Verifying the Emperor's New Groove. And I'm sorry that if anyone else who has watched the Emperor's New Groove will now also have that stuck in their head when they listen to this album. But I like it. End of the night, end of the hen night, end of the wedding. And it's also, it's two pals. It's her and Sabrina being like, yeah, we're both showgirls, I guess. If it's a karaoke hen, you could have a nice time with it. Yeah. it's very the bride and her maid of honour isn't it doing the karaoke at the end of the night and they still have the mics they're like thanks so much for coming you know oh go the girls go the girlies go the girlies go the girlies and that's it that's the life of a showgirl it only took us two hours which is about how long she's been making it and look so in summary I loved it our theory is flawless our theory is flawless where do we think this is going to sit in the I mean it's impossible to tell at this point but we don't yet know which songs will rise up to to kind of be yeah metabolized into culture we don't yet know which ones they'll be we have our own personal favorites is it her strongest offering ever no no but it doesn't have to be not every single album has to be better and better something that Gav said to me when I he was like what are you doing this weekend I was like well I'm going to two Taylor Swift themed events with Jen so you won't be seeing much of me at all and he was like oh it's like the World Cup for women I was like it's exactly the World Cup for women because having observed him go through many World Cups over the years not every World Cup is like history making no not every World Cup is like a very exciting World Cup some World Cups are just an excuse to get out of the house and that's what this album is it's bloody excuse to get out of the house I just think it's they've done it she's done it well she's done what we needed we needed a bit of a bop she needs something for the wedding and the hen do everyone else needs something for the wedding and the hen do and we had some collective time together dancing and if you're expecting more from her, don't you know, sometimes a song is just a song sometimes an album is just an album sometimes a showgirl is just a showgirl thank you for coming thank you, it's been another amazing night you gotta go so I can edit this podcast so I can be the showgirl thank you, bye, goodnight goodnight Thank you.