Everton snatch all three points to deal a setback to Villa’s title ambition

23:13But that might take a little bit longer. But as long as they're picking up results like this, the Evertonians will be happy. David Moyes said they had to accept the dislodged goal, which is probably easier to do with a smile on your face when you've won. Anyhow, this isn't O 'Brien offside offside who scored the goal it's actually Harrison Armstrong in the middle that they deem they deem to be interfering with play so there you are you could see him in the middle of the six-yard box in an offside position and then it comes down to whether you think he is affecting either Buendia or Guesson by jumping for the ball and we go back to it Jamie we're kind of looking at the third point here attempting to play a ball and this action impacting on an opponent and that comes down to opinion.

23:58Exactly. It's a very contentious one. You see, as it comes in here, Armstrong gets himself back onside, but then is he interfering? Wendy is not going to head it. Gesson, if anything, Brian maybe does push Gesson in the back, but he doesn't give that. It's actually for offside. Evertonians, David Moyes will be really disappointed with that one. I was actually surprised at the time it didn't get given, but I can understand it. when you see because you know Harrison Armstrong does try to just get a little flick on that but is it enough if he hadn't given it I don't think there'd be too many complaints no I don't think there would be you know it could go either way this one you know I think that obviously getting the three points David Moyes is not going to be complaining too much or talking too much about that it's like we say it's one of them that Harrison Armstrong does go up is he going to win the head, it doesn't really look like he's going to win the ball and is it then going to be the foul on Gesson from Jake O 'Brien?

24:58So like I say, it's a contentious one and it can go either way. But if it can go either way, then you just kind of have to accept it and not get... I know we're all meant to get angry about every single decision, but sometimes you just have to go, well it could have gone either way and we have to accept what they say. I think that's what David Moyes will be saying after the game, you know, it can go either way. They scored at the other end, they got the three points and I think that'll be case closed. Yeah, it's perfect, isn't it? Because then he can say, well, things aren't going our way. But he can say it like we're very relaxed, almost his tongue-in-cheek, because they've got a massive three points there.

25:31Yeah, I mean, there may be another decision that they're happier with and Villa aren't happy with and whether James Garner should have got a second yellow card in that second half. We will talk about that when we come back and get the thoughts of Unai Emery as he sees his Villa side lose at home to Everton and stays seven behind Arsenal. in the race for the title.

26:00If you're enjoying this podcast, there are plenty more from Sky Sports we think you'll love too. There's the Gary Neville podcast for Gary's immediate reaction to the biggest matches. Transfer Talk has the latest on all the big moves in and out of the Premier League and beyond. And for WSL fans, check out Pitch to Pod with Jordan Nobbs and Nikita Paris. Just search for Sky Sports wherever you get your podcasts. For now, though, let's get back to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast.

26:39After four bids, the latest thought to be£15 million, Liverpool insist they're still talking to Villa. I was captain of a massive football club at Aston Villa. I've been there 10, 11 years. Your brain starts ticking a bit. Are you ready for a new challenge? What is happening with Gareth Barry? I was talking with Martin O 'Neill privately before, so he knows our ideas clearly. Rapha phoned me up, offered me a host of players that I didn't really want. That's not the name of the game. We didn't have the funding to complete it. Then it was a case of, right, what do I need to do to get the move done?

27:10It was just like lobbing a hand grenade. I was fuming. Fined two weeks' wages, banned from the training ground. If he'd gone to Liverpool in the manner which he did, he wouldn't have gone with my blessing. I would never have sported him again. To make that so personal against Martin O 'Neill, I'm amazed he ever actually played for Aston Villa again. Who would have thought Gareth Barry's Villa career would come to this? There were chances of Judas, food every time he touched the ball. Mentally, it was a real tough period. I regret doing some things. If you got into the Champions League, would you stay?

27:40If you're playing Champions League football at Aston Villa, then there's no need to look elsewhere anyway. Would that be a definite? Yeah, it'd have to be a definite now, wouldn't it? Liverpool were still there a year later. Arsenal come as well. It was a huge message that Manchester City was serious. They made me feel wanted and the ambition is the main thing. You know what means? Money, money, money. I did take a lot of stick to win the FA Cup, to win the Premier League. It was a big relief to win a trophy in your career.

28:10It's like one of the more dramatic transfers of the Premier League era and the whole story of Gareth Barry's move to Manchester City after once a Liverpool dropped away is after us of Sky Sports Premier League. From the Villa of the past to the Villa of the present day, a disappointing afternoon here. Beaten 1-0 at home by Everton. Unai Emery is with Piedmiddell and Steve.

28:43Unai, was that a result that surprised you today? Not. What was the reason behind the performance? What was the reason behind your answer there? Because they competed very well and we had our chances, we didn't score and they had less chances but they scored and they competed well, after the goal they defended well and we lost, something can happen. How avoidable was that goal that went against you in the second half? Yes, we will avoid the goal but we didn't do. There were chances for both teams at both ends. Did it feel like when you were watching it, it was just not quite that day where it was going your way?

29:27Something can happen like the match was going and if we were scoring one goal in the first half, we could win because a lot of matches playing like that we won. But today we didn't score and they scored and they defended well and they competed well. This is Premier League. it's not a surprise to lose against Everton they are a very good team and they have a very good coach and they have very good structure tactically There was an incident I wonder what your take was on this James Garner looked like he pushed Morgan Rodgers on his way through he was already on the yellow card do you feel that he should have been shown a second yellow in that instance?

30:07It's the referee's decision When you're looking at the results that have happened around you this weekend. Does this feel like a big opportunity missed today? Yes, of course. We lost very good opportunity. When I say about are you surprised about these performances, we're talking about the levels of consistency that Aston Villa have shown, have proved to have so far this season. The fact that you come into this game, you were 11 games with a win in all competitions here at Villa Park. So in terms of it feeling a surprise, Do you think that everyone else will feel like this was a surprise? We are in day 22 and we had a lot of points and this is the advantage we can have.

30:48But we can lose today, we can lose next week, we can lose and we can draw, we can win. We did a very good season until now and today we lost. Of course, we will get balance because we are first in the league. How important then is that reaction next week from your players? We are still not contenders to be in the top five. We are now but we are still not being contenders. What does it take then to be that in your opinion? Because they are Another team with more potential than us. Why do you think that?

31:24Thank you very much, Enel. Aye aye aye So five more teams with more potential than Villa which we'll discuss in a moment He's seething evidently but but seething about what do you think? Because he seems quite relaxed about the performance, this can happen, you can lose a game like this. He's seething about other things. It looks that way. He looked really angry. And it could be the injuries, maybe another one added to the list with John McGinn today, missing Boubacar Kamara. They're massive players. Anana as well who's missing. Is it the sale of Daniel Marlon? Is it him speaking out to say to the owners, to say, look at my squad, I need more players.

32:14I don't know, it was a weird interview, to be honest. You thought it'd speak more about the game and, you know, a missed opportunity of closing the gap on Arsenal. And, you know, to then say there's five other teams that were with more potential, you know, it's weird. Yeah, it wasn't quite Rafa Fax or Kevin Keegan, I'd love to beat them, but it was certainly one of the oddest interviews I've ever seen. You know, the bit at the end when he's saying, you know, it just goes quiet. It was a very sensible question by Pee. He wasn't asking anything difficult for him. I don't know what really he's trying to allude to.

32:47It was, I guess he's just genuinely devastated with that performance and the result. And he's trying to obviously maybe message in another way that, yeah, they do need players. And we looked at, Ashley and I were three of us looking at when the game was going on. We looked, okay, what have Aston Villa got to bring off the bench? They were short. You know, they haven't got the options. Elliott hasn't worked out. He's not on the bench. Sancho was ill today. So they didn't have the normal potential to bring players on. It looks like Kamara is going to be out for a long time. I'm not a knee surgeon, but it's one of my specialised, one of my speciality subjects is knees, unfortunately.

33:20And John McGinn looks like he's got a major problem with his knee that's not going to be fixed in a couple of days. I hope it is, and I hope I'm completely wrong. But it looks like that's going to give you a problem. So they will need 100 % to strengthen in that midfield area because you could see today, Wendy is a player I really like, but he didn't, with 20 minutes to go, You can see he was tired. And normally, he's a manager that loves that 70-minute mark to bring players on. He'd go left-back, left-back. He'll change it and bring on midfield players. John McGinn will do 70 minutes. He'll come off.

33:45So they're right now. I mean, they are bare bones. They need a bit of help in that area. So let's explore that then. They are down to the bare bones. That presumably is where the real frustration has come from. So why move Marlon on this week? I mean, you could argue why move Marlon on at all, except the feeling is he might fit between different positions, really. But why move him on now if you are down to the bare bones? That was one of the things that we spoke about, Marlon moving on, and especially this early in the window. Maybe if they knew that he was going to move on, then maybe they would wait until towards the end of the window.

34:25Like I say, they didn't know the injuries were going to come to John McGinn today. They don't know Bubakar Kamara. We don't know how long he's going to be out for. or it's just strange to see a player go so early, yet you come out and do an interview and you say that, basically, we're down to the bare bones. And, you know, you look at the bench and Hemming's young player coming on, which obviously was fantastic for him. But, you know, Unaray must be looking and thinking, you know, I need to get players in, but you wouldn't move someone on unless you've got players coming in. So unless that's what he's trying to say, that we need to get players in, or he's got some sort of thinking that he's bringing players in.

35:04It's just a strange one that Marlon's already left in this window so far. They've sailed very close to the wind, haven't they? They were financial fair play over the last few years, so whether they feel that might be an idea just to get some money in. In terms of the loan system, last year they were brilliant at it. They bought in Rashford and Asensio, who were really good. They made a massive difference to this Villa side in the January transfer window. They're going to have to have the imagination again and bring a few players in just to help. But the hard thing is now, it's like you show your hand now.

35:31Because as soon as someone knows that you've got a problem with John McGinn or if there's an injury to Kamara, that price then goes up. Oh, we want to buy him 20 million. OK, well, he's 30 now because we know you're desperate. So that becomes a difficulty for Aston Villa. But it does feel like that. I didn't like his recognition that we can't win the title. Because if they win today, they go three points behind Arsenal, I think. They would have gone four points behind Arsenal. You know, so they are and they've been magnificent. They have been a joy to watch this season. But that was a really odd interview.

36:02But, you know, look, this is emotion now we have to talk about. He's low. He's feeling desperate after that result. So they've got to pick themselves up. They go to Newcastle next week. It's not an easy game either. Do you think when he says there are five teams with more potential? I mean, you may look at that table and tell me which those five are, actually. I don't know. Reading between the lines is there also there are either five more teams who have more money to spend in a transfer window than us, or there are five more teams who are allowed to spend more money in a transfer window than us.

36:34I think that could be the possibility, where he's looking and thinking, you know, there's five other teams that can actually spend in this window. I mean, Chelsea have been linked today with paying 60 million quid for a centre-back from Rhett. Of course, and, you know, who knows, is going to be looking at that and thinking, well, you know, other teams have got facility to be able to go and buy players. and with all the rulings that are surrounding the club and they can't be bringing in players because if they do anything, they could be fined and deducted points. He's probably looking at and saying, and that's why he's come out in the interview, to say there's five other teams with potential.

37:09I don't think it's potential that their squads are better because you look at how Aston Villa have done this season. They've been phenomenal this season. You look at their home form here, it's been terrific. But then I think he looks at the squad and he looks at other teams and they're able to spend and we're not able to do this. So like I said, it's a weird one with Marlon leaving now. Yeah, it could be that, Ash, couldn't it? Because you look at what you think, it's Man City, it's a level playing field and all of a sudden they go, right, there's Semenyo. And well, Gaye looks like that's going to get across the line as well soon.

37:39So it makes it a lot more difficult for them. The other thing with him, though, we've seen plenty of managers over the last month do their interviews at press conferences and it's sending a message upstairs. By all accounts, and you know how this club works and you know him, he may have a director of football and so on and so forth, but he has the keys to this club. He runs this. Yeah, I think for what he's done since he's come in and changed the football club from where it was at to where it is now. There's been Champions League football here, obviously Europa League now, but he has changed the club and that's been through himself and obviously sport directors and the owners and whatnot, but he's the one that's really got the keys and he's got the final say-so to Green, like whatever it has been.

38:26So, you know, if he's leaving himself short, you'd think, well, why have he done that? Or is there something, like you say, underlining where, you know, they're not able to go out and get players because of certain rules that are in place? And, you know, like we say, it's just a, it was a weird interview. And, you know, of course, he's now showing his frustration in January. So maybe it's him turning around and saying, look what I'm dealing with. Look what I've been left with. I need help. I need players. We're seeing some astonishing interviews from players, from managers. I mean, if you think about it with Ameren, Mareska, even Glasner yesterday, the way that he's speaking about, you know, and there's always messages in what they're trying to say.

39:05And it was an unusual one today because I thought he could have just said, OK, didn't do the business today, didn't get the win, didn't perform. We go for next week. But there was obviously something there that's on his mind. He wants to talk about it. I totally get this. Listen, don't get me wrong, they're in a fight to win the title, but then you're also looking over your shoulder and you think, well, if Michael Carey keeps playing players in the same position, they're not going to be on 35 points for long. They're going to go up the league and all of a sudden, can Liverpool then go on a run?

39:32This is so compact and congested. All of a sudden, a couple of wins back to back, everything can change. And he's well aware of that, but I don't want to undermine what Aston Villa have done. You know, we're talking today before the game, they're title contenders and they earned that right to be there. They've just got to find the way now. And he will definitely... That squad as it is now, and then you take out Kamara and McGinn, cannot win the league. Make no mistake. No way can they... But can that squad, if you take out Kamara and McGinn, still secure Champions League football? I mean, our dotted line is there with the top four.

40:02You would expect it to be top five. Yeah. They've got a seven-point buffer over Liverpool, eight over United, nine over Chelsea, ten over Brentford, Newcastle and Sunderland. I think so. That squad can still qualify for the Champions League. Yeah, I mean, it'll be such a disappointment if they don't. But, you know, you looked at last year, they ran out of steam, didn't they? Towards the end of the season, they didn't make Champions League. So they have to be incredibly careful still. But I do believe he's an elite coach, but he will need definitely, that squad as it is, is going to be running on empty very soon because of all the games they've got to play week in, week out.

40:33And even last week in the FA Cup, they played Tottenham. There was rumours that he was going to leave out half the team. Next thing you go, it's pretty much his strongest team. So you are playing every player to their maximum. And sometimes they do need a rest. other managers will leave players out. He's played 120 minutes here or there. He seems to be playing all of his players, and I totally understand it, but they're going to need a bit of help with a bit of squad depth. You go back a year ago when they managed to get Asensio in, they managed to get Rashford in, the loan system benefited them.

40:57But they have had to, I don't want to use the phrase wheel and deal, but they have had to kind of be quite canny in how they build their, in particular, their forward lines each season. That must be down to the rules. It must be. Yeah, of course. And I think if you look at it, it's the way that they've gone about the job they've gone the loan route um they haven't been buying too many players so you think that something is going on something's happening in the background that you know we don't know about that obviously Unai and the team are talking about that the owners the sporting director are talking about that you know they're trying to change and you know he's going to have to probably go into the loan market again and you know like we're saying that you know to finish in champions league position again um you could see players already are starting to run out of steam they've got European football here as well.

41:44You know, then players, if you do miss Abubakar Kamara for a long while now and John McGinn for a long while, you know, players are going to have to step up. And, you know, if you're playing in Europe as well, and you're going to have to play younger players, it's going to be tough. So he's going to have to go into the loan market and get players. And, you know, I remember, you know, we did it here when it was under Martin O 'Neill when, you know, we tried to get into the Champions League places. We finished three seasons in a row and it was because they're using the same players. And, you know, when you haven't got the players to rotate and freshen up the squad.

42:13It is tough and it does come down to being able to look ahead. But when you haven't got the players, it is a tough decision to make. Ross Barkley will be back soon as well, I believe. So that's an extra body in midfield. Obviously, get him going. That might be someone that can be... Be linked with bringing Tammy Abraham in. Yeah, Tammy would make a lot of sense because I think he's... Because as a manager, he's very... He's detailed on his substitutions. And there are times when Oli Watkins will get 70 metres. He'll say to Oli, I need you for 70 minutes, work your socks off, and then someone will come on.

42:44He was very much like that with John Duran, wasn't he? So he might feel that that's an option, just to bring someone just to take that workload off Oli, because he's been magnificent, but you can't just keep flogging him. He needs a rest at times, or maybe to come off the bench like he did against Chelsea and make a difference. And he wants a like-for-like with Watkins. He wants an out-and-out striker, and it goes back to the Marlon thing, finally, which was there is a perception that he didn't fancy Marlon as an out-and-out striker and he fell in between two or three different positions. Yeah, and I think that if the Tammy Abraham thing is going to be a green light, then maybe that's why he's let Marlon go out the door because he was like, he's not an out-and-out number nine.

43:25He can play wide, he can play as a number 10. So maybe there is something in the background that is going to come to fruition sooner rather than later. And I think he's looking at that like Jamie says, that Olly Watkins will need a number nine, an actual number nine. Olly goes to 70 minutes and then the next one can come on and take that out. The next one starts the game and plays 70 minutes. Olly Watkins is then fresh to then come on and score the goals. So it is going to be one of those things where we look and wait and see. And after the interview, hopefully he'll be able to get the players and he won't be like that again.

43:58Let's switch it back to Everton. Look at James Gardner's overall performance in a moment. after I first asked you whether you think he was a bit lucky to still be on the field at Milner. Yeah, very lucky indeed, Mark. He was brilliant today. But this is his first yellow. You can see a little bit of desperation there. Buendia goes across him, hooks him, and that's definitely a yellow card. And then you're on that tightrope, and it's very difficult, and you've got to be so careful. Premier League's so fast. Sometimes you can have a moment where you're just chasing a player like Morgan Rodgers, and it's just...

44:27As he sort of slows up, you can see he puts both hands on his back. I mean, that's as big a foul, or especially denying a player an opportunity to maybe just shoot, that is a foul. And I think it didn't even get a foul, I think, because he had a car, Dash. Yeah, I totally agree. It was two hands on Morgan Rodgers' back there. And, you know, you look, Morgan Rodgers is going through. You know, the referee, I don't know what position he's in or if he can't see it, but it just looks like a blatant foul. And I think anywhere else on the pitch, you know, if the ball's running out of play and you do that to a player, the player's getting a free kick and the referee could have given him a second yellow.

44:59And he was lucky, but he was fantastic today. he ran that midfield actually yeah well actually today he said it we were just talking about because obviously he's been playing so well when I said obviously when you see someone in training I think you learn a lot about them you get to know what their traits are their habits how do they play what do they do well what can he improve and Ashley just said he's top he said he's a fantastic player and he deserves all the plonets he's getting and today you could see it in the midfield obviously with without Idrissa Garnagay who's important for them he's that sort of energy he's stepped into those shoes you know You've got a young midfield player playing alongside you in Harrison Armstrong and needs an arm around his back at times, need to hold his hand, make sure he goes into the right positions.

45:39I just thought he looked like a really established midfielder. He had everything in his game. I thought he ran it. He was exceptional. Fortunate as well. Sometimes you need a bit of luck. But I think Ashley called it from before the game about how good he is. Important for Everton to keep hold of him going forward. Yeah, of course it is. I think there's talk that his contract's run up at the end of the season. So, of course, they need to do everything they can to possibly keep hold of him. It'd be a massive loss if he was to go. But, you know, I think especially in the last few weeks, he's stepped up massively in the, you know, when Adrissa Garner Gaye's gone off to AFCON, you know, missing his experience.

46:16Jimmy stepped up and, like I say, he's been fantastic. He was again today. The calm influence he's had, you know, he had a role that was next to him and Harrison Armstrong in front of him as well today. And, you know, he was so calm on the ball. and he's got that, he looks so laid back, but he's a fantastic footballer and it's not a bad performance to do it in front of the England manager as well. Just before we go, you're a former teammate of Michael Carrick, so let me just ask you about yesterday and the win in the Manchester derby and how you think Michael Carrick himself has carried himself the last week.

46:51Carrick has always been the same, whether he be a player or as a manager. He's so calm and laid back and I think he would be telling the players that exactly that way, you know, forget the noise that's surrounding the club and just go out and perform, you know, he wants his teams to work hard and, you know, you saw that yesterday, you know, they rode the luck at times but they were fantastic, you know, I think if Carls will be looking and thinking that, you know, if I can get this team into Champions League positions and do well come the end of the season then why couldn't he be in the running for the job permanently, but like I say, he's a fantastic person and, you know, hopefully who will be a really good for the club.

47:29Already, it's very, very early days, but it strikes me that he'll be able to cut out all the noise. Yeah, and what Michael did yesterday was probably the most sensible thing anyone's done at Man United for a long time, is just play players in their right positions. I kept actually questioning myself, am I getting this wrong with Bruno Fernandes? Is he in number six alongside someone else? And I kept watching Amorim do it week in, week out. And all of a sudden, I watched him yesterday play in a 10, which makes complete and utter sense and you thought, wow, why has nobody done that? Why have you not thought to maybe just change the system?

48:03You know, I'd never see Martinez and then you have Harry Maguire, good partnership. A right-footed right-back, left-footed left-back. You get your best players in their best positions. You bring Manu back into the team alongside Casemiro. Football is not rocket science. I think sometimes we let managers make us think that it is. Just make sensible decisions and you can get wins and Michael Carrick just proved it yesterday. we will end it there it's a big weekend in the NFL we are at the divisional round I'll tell you what's coming up in a moment Monday night football tomorrow Brighton against Bournemouth Thierry Henry will be alongside Jamie and Dave for that thank you very much Ashley thank you Jamie thank you for being with us we'll see you soon bye

48:52Thanks for listening to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast. Don't forget to hit follow so you don't miss an episode.