Sunderland defeat Forest to earn first away win whilst heartbreak for Wolves as Spurs equalise in 95th minute

20:04David Jones:I think all that time in the gym has paid off for Palinho because he had the sharpness of body and the sharpness of mind to spare Spurs blushes late on just as it looked like they were heading to an embarrassing home defeat against a wall side who now have their first point of the season but they will feel it should have been three. Ten shots to nine, three apiece on target. That effort from Palinho actually Spurs' only effort on target in the second half. Oh and really they might have been chasing the game. They did have more touches in the opposition box, more passes in the final third but possession was a 50-50 split.

20:43So

20:43David Jones:disappointment in the end for Vito Pereira's side. You can see it etched all over his face and those of his team as well. Relief really for Tottenham and we can bring you some reaction now from the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. Here is Joao Polinha with Pien Mullenstein.

21:03Gary O'Neil:Joao, that was quite the ending. What did you make of it? I'm not happy at all, to be honest, because that's the games that we need definitely to win, especially when we play at home. I think we did a great first half, the second not really. We could create more chances. I think we start to lose a bit the punches on the ball. We want to start to make everything so quick. and when you are losing 1-0 against these kind of teams we need to push us all on the pitch but but yeah it's one more game for us to improve to analyze first of all and and yeah it's not not gonna be easy we knew it but of course i'm really sad me and my teammates and all the stuff because this result is mandatory to win for us in these games.

22:04Gary O'Neil:But it's a draw that feels like a loss. Why do you think they made it so difficult for you on the pitch today, Wolves? No, I think they scored a goal, in my opinion.

22:20Gary O'Neil:They play well sometimes at the moment, especially on the second half, when they start to win the game 1-0. that moment that I was meaning when we start to do everything so quick I think Wolves try it to be more on the ball and and yeah we fight until the last minute I think Wolves defend well on the box especially our crosses we could make the goal even the first corner no the first cross with more on the post but But that's the football. I think we need to score our chances to try as possible the most clean sheets to win the games. Because I always said if we guarantee the clean sheet, I think most part of the game is winning by ourselves because we will have chances.

23:12Gary O'Neil:So we need to score our chances in the game. Thank you very much for your time. I don't think.

23:17David Jones:Interesting. He might have been pretty pleased to have saved Spurs at the end, but it was very conciliatory tone, wasn't it, from João Polinha. Did he hit the nail on the head? Really, Gary? He looks a bit like you, doesn't he? Maybe a few years ago. Not so much anymore. Zero percent body fat. In the sense that these are the games that Tottenham really have to be winning now.

23:38Andy Reid:Yeah, I agree with that part. The part that I struggle with a little bit is that they didn't deserve to in any way, which is what you need to look at. Because I've seen them twice at home this year and in both of those games, they're meant to be the dominant force and the onus is on them against Bournemouth and against Wolves. And they've struggled in both. You know, their good performances have come against teams like PSG and Manchester City and teams where they have to defend and be without the ball. So I think there's a lot of improvement needed in Spurs if they're going to be challenging at the top end of the table this year because teams are going to come and they're going to frustrate and they need to produce more quality than they did this evening.

24:12David Jones:Is it a concern that having gone a goal down on 54 minutes, it then takes almost 40 minutes, I think 39 minutes before they actually manage a shot on target.

24:20Kevin Phillips:Yeah, it is a little bit of a concern. Look, you don't want to go too over the top, but they've made a good start to the season. They've got a point here tonight. But like Gary just said, I would have liked Tottenham to go after this game a little bit more tonight. You know, they pressed high from goal kicks, but from open play, they didn't really go after Wolves. They let them gain a bit of momentum by giving them periods in the game where they could keep the ball without any kind of real pressure. They dropped into a mid-block at times. So I just feel that they could have gone after the game a little bit more, made it more difficult for Wolves.

24:51Kevin Phillips:And they will be disappointed because they'll feel that this is an opportunity that's kind of slipped through the fingers.

24:57David Jones:Here's the Wolves' buffs then. Vito Pereira is with Pien Mullenstein.

25:02Gary O'Neil:Vito, it was quite a dramatic ending. How do you assess that performance tonight? Congrats to my team, my players. We deserve the three points. But football is football. Football sometimes is not fair. And the last minute we considered the goal. But keeping the spirit, playing in the way that we play in the second half, we will get our points. So a first point on the board. I can tell, of course, it's not enough. You would have wanted the three points. But in terms of that second half performance, you really managed the game right up until almost the end. Of course, of course. We were the best team in the second half.

25:45Gary O'Neil:In my opinion, we deserve to win. But it's football. I need to keep my balance. It's very difficult to concede a goal in the last minute, but football is what it is. When you look at the game as a whole, what do you think the difference was compared to the first five games this season? No, the difference is now we are working together. Before we didn't have time to work together. Now we know, everybody knows what we want, what we can play in different systems. but the way that we... The first half was difficult for us, difficult to control the crosses, but the second half, in my opinion, was very good.

26:42Gary O'Neil:The last game was very good. Two games without losing. But we need to keep this spirit, we need to increase our level and to rest a bit. Santiago Bueno got his first goal for Wolves. Did that give the team that belief that you needed at that moment as well when you scored? Of course, of course. And I really believe that we will win the game until the last minute. It was good for him, good for us, but we have the spirit, we have the spirit, we have quality and now we are proving our quality. There are clearly a lot of positives to take from the performances. When you look at a couple of the games that didn't quite go your way, they were tight games in the end.

27:32Gary O'Neil:This one, again, just didn't quite work that way out. But do you still see that belief that the encouraging signs are there for Wolves? Of course, of course. The last game against Everton and today, I think now we mentally and tactically are in conditions to compete. I can tell as well the players will be feeling really frustrated by just taking a point here but what do you as a manager say to the players after this result?

28:05Gary O'Neil:It's difficult, it's difficult. I said to them we must keep this spirit, this mentality, we must keep playing like this in this way and we'll get points for sure in the future. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you.

28:20David Jones:Yeah, we're so close to that win, but how much do you focus on performance on a night like this?

28:27Andy Reid:Yeah, no, I think they've needed a good performance in the league. You know, they've had their two good cup performances. They've won both their cup games, but they've needed a big performance in the league. And today definitely was that. You know, we can speak about Spurs maybe not being the sharpest, but Wolves went to a very, very tough place to go and were easily valued for a point and potentially could have taken all three, which takes some doing. So especially when you haven't taken a point from your first five games. So it's definitely a step in the right direction. I think the concerning thing at the moment for people, teams like Wolves and West Ham's is how well some of the newly promoted teams have done.

29:04Andy Reid:We've seen Sunderland, we've seen Leeds and these boys, I don't think the points tally is going to be as low as it was last year for being down the bottom of the table. I think you're going to need a lot more points. What sort of number? What would you say? I don't know. I think, what was it, 28 or something last year? Third bottom went down with something around that. I think what you've seen from the boys that have come up is that they mean business this year. And I don't think we'll see the three that come up go back down again. So Wolves, as well as performances, and as well as the other teams, the West Hams and Aston Villas and people like that, they need to put points as well as performances on the board at the moment.

29:39Andy Reid:That puts big pressure on Vita Pereira.

29:41Kevin Phillips:Yeah, it does. I'm thinking about this game. I was at their game last week against Leeds and I kind of came away from it and I didn't really see where they were going. I thought, they're going to be in a lot of trouble. They were passive and they couldn't keep the ball. They didn't really create very much other than the goal that they scored. And I was quite worried for them. And then, you know, they get a win during the week, although against a weak and Everton team. And then they come here tonight and put in a really good performance where you're looking, particularly in the second half, and go, actually I think I might be able to see a little bit of what's going on here and what they're trying to do.

30:14Kevin Phillips:So I think that's the message he's getting across. The players are trying to take on board the information. There's still a lot of work to do there. You know, there's still a lot of work to do. They need to be taking them chances and them big moments. But they will take some heart from this. Once the emotion settles down and, you know, that real disappointment, nobody, you know, Gaz will tell you, as a manager, you can see the goal in injury time and you're absolutely devastated. but once that starts to settle down, you look back to the video and you'll be like, no, we played some really good stuff and you can see the shoots of maybe what they're trying to go out.

30:46David Jones:Is it going to be a scrap all season for Wolves then, do you think?

30:48Andy Reid:I think it's too early to say. I think that, you know, we can look at the table at the moment but some teams have had a lot easier fixtures than others so it's difficult to look into exactly where you are. I think Vitor makes a good point. They have had time to work. There was a big turnover in the squad. A lot of players left. A lot of players were signed. So they do need time to work. They have seen an improvement in the last couple of games in their own performance. So, I mean, let's hope it continues because I think we, well, me especially, want to see Wolves performing how they did in that second half and causing teams problems.

31:22Andy Reid:So I think today they go home like it will hurt for now, but they go home and they take big positives from today's performance and they look to build on it.

31:39David Jones:If you're enjoying this podcast, there are plenty more from Sky Sports we think you'll love too. There's the Gary Neville podcast for Gary's immediate reaction to the biggest matches. Transfer Talk has the latest on all the big moves in and out of the Premier League and beyond. And for WSL fans, check out Pitch to Pod with Jordan Nobbs and Nikita Paris. Just search for Sky Sports wherever you get your podcasts. For now, though, let's get back to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast.

32:16Gary O'Neil:Thomas, on reflection, are you happy with the point or do you feel you deserve more? Yeah, I think we played a good first half in many ways without having enough clear-cut chances. I think we got into dangerous situations quite a few times where we could have done even more to Krali. We have a massive chance to run the kudos, just a loud goal. Some good situations we didn't get enough out of. And, you know, Wolves were nowhere near anything. The second half, I think we started okay. And then the goal, whereas we are saving actually the head on the goal and into ourselves and then it's open goal and after that I felt we lost a little bit of control in terms of we didn't keep the structure enough we were rushing too much in my opinion can't the effort and the mentality from the players was fantastic keep staying in the game keep pushing and I think we got a well deserved equaliser in the end but when you're down 1-0 to 90 plus minutes I think you can't really claim the three points, so probably a fair reflection today.

33:32Gary O'Neil:Yeah. Why do you think there was a difference between the first half performance and the second half performance? It's a good question because we were very much on top first half. I think the goal disrupted a bit, that's one thing. They also changed formation at halftime, so it changed to a 5-3-2. So also that could disrupt a little bit. And then we rushed and it was not as clear what we wanted in the different positions so yeah goal change games. Jaapolini though right at the end made sure you got a point from it and your emotions when that goal went in? Yeah of course you're happy because I think the players work so hard and all the thing as well deserve points in general and of course you play home against Wolves who haven't won yet so of course you like the three points so it's good to get at least one but again another reminder that this league is relentless and so tough in many ways.

34:29Gary O'Neil:I was going to say, I don't know if you've been able to see any of the results that happened today, but there's been a variety of results. Do you think this could be potentially one of the most competitive Premier League seasons we've got? Yeah, maybe you're right. It's definitely very, very competitive, no doubt about that. So, yeah, very tight. Thomas, thank you very much for your time. Thank you.

34:52David Jones:I suppose it might be a worry, Andy. It might have been in his inbox when he actually took the job this summer. This home form, which has not been going in Tottenham's favour, certainly in the last season, if we just show our views what I'm talking about. Last 17 Premier League home games, just three wins. And we've mentioned the Bournemouth game just a couple of weeks ago when they had five shots to Bournemouth's 20, lost the game. this one was heading away from them as well is that something that he's got to find a fix for? Yeah it is look at

35:26Kevin Phillips:he knew when he was coming in that there was work to do he's trying to imprint himself and his style on this team and one of the things that he does have to put right is the home form I think that's pretty obvious you knew that so that'll be something that he's walking out it'll be something that he's thinking right how can we maybe just get on the front foot a little bit more when we're at home because for me I thought that that was the problem tonight I just didn't think that they really got on the front foot enough. I thought they let Wolves have too many passages of play without too much pressure on them.

35:56Kevin Phillips:And when you think of some of the Thomas Frank teams, you know, his Brentford team, they were happy to kind of do that and kind of soak up a bit of pressure in their mid to low block. But when you're Tottenham and you're playing at home, you think you're going to need something a little bit different where you're going to have to get after teams on because their fans demand that. They want the players to get after. They want to see fast attacking football. They want to see free-flowing football. But to do that, you need to get the ball. So that would be one of the things that I would imagine that he'll be looking into it and be wanting to go after.

36:26David Jones:And you both said he's a really good out-of-possession coach. But is that one of the questions, I suppose, that we still have about Thomas Frank as a coach to develop those attacking patterns that are going to help Spurs win games like tonight?

36:40Andy Reid:I think he did an unbelievable job at Brentford of when they lost Ivan Toni, I think there would have been a lot of questions around what they were going to do because they were direct, they were heavily reliant on Ivan Toni. And then last season at Brentford, Thomas managed to evolve it and they played some fantastic stuff. So I have no doubt that Thomas will get this Spurs team where he wants it. I think it's still very, very early in his tenure. I understand when you go in and they shipped a lot of goals and a lot of chances last season, Spurs. And he's rectified that. They don't concede anywhere near as many chances as they were last season and I think now having played Bournemouth and having played Wolves at home I would have thought that Thomas and his staff will start to think okay but now we need we need to add another layer to this and we need to be a little bit more attacking if we can.

37:27Kevin Phillips:I mean I think you have to take into account that you know with the greatest respect of Brentford it's a club that's on a different level to Tottenham. Tottenham are you know that level above and the expectations are different so when you go in there he's going to have to take that into account and he knows that you know you listen to him speak he's a clever man he understands football he understands people you can hear that with how he speaks so he's going to have to figure them kind of issues out and that's a problem that I think he will most definitely have the ability to be able to change the more time he gets to work with the players they will start to figure out these problems together you know but again you know it's a disappointment for them but let's not get away from the fact they're still touring the league they've they've had some good wins this season, you know, beat Man City away.

38:09Kevin Phillips:So I think there's plenty of positivity for them, but also a little bit of stuff that they need to put away.

38:15David Jones:Plenty of positivity right now around Selhurst Park. Pien said it in the question to Thomas Frank about this being a competitive season in the league and maybe Palace the best example of this. His team looked like they were being pegged back to a draw, but they won it through Eddie Nketiah in the 90 plus seventh minute. Johnny Phillips, who's speaking to the managers afterwards. What are your initial thoughts on that result and the performance?

38:42Gary O'Neil:Very difficult first half for us. They did really well. It deserved to be one goal up. I think we were even lucky that it was only 1-0. The second half performance was maybe a bit the opposite. I think we had enough chances to score. It took a while before we scored one. When we scored one, there was only a few minutes left. you think it's going to be a draw but from the second set piece they won the game.

39:11David Jones:Well, there were some special celebrations from you on the touchline as well when that goal went in. Are they the sort of moments you're in the game for?

39:17Gary O'Neil:Yes, absolutely. I think everyone who was close to Crystal Palace these are the moments that's why we love football. I think all our fans have a great Saturday evening now and that's why we love football and then of course I felt at half-time we should lead by two at least, we should lead by two goals at least, but then really coming back and having these emotions, but I think at the end we also deserved it and so it was a great performance, great game, great win.

39:52David Jones:It is the end of your 100 % record but I suppose the mark of your team now will be how you respond and the learnings you take from this?

39:59Gary O'Neil:Yeah, we take a lot of learnings from all the games you've played till now and this is something we can maybe even learn more from than from the others, although it wasn't as if we were perfect till now when it comes to the way we played. But we were always a team that fought really hard to come back into the game. That's what we did again today. But today it didn't lead to two points because they scored the late goal winner.

40:23David Jones:Well, it's a fantastic result for Crystal Palace against Liverpool's side, who'd won their first five of the season. Palace, of course, FA Cup winners and now unbeaten in 18. Gary, manager to manager, give me your assessment of the work that Oliver Glasner is doing at Crystal Palace right now.

40:41Andy Reid:Yeah, absolutely incredible. I think the journey that he's taken that football club on, if you think from where he picked it up, also the quality of the players that they've lost as well in Alise and Eze, who were both a massive part of what they were achieving. and you wouldn't know that they'd lost that bigger quality. You know, he's just, they're so hard to play against, not only at Sellers Park now, on the road as well. They have a real clear style. They never deviate from it. They're good from set pieces. Yes, it's an incredible job that he's done there. I mean, to add silverware at a club like Crystal Palace in itself is an incredible achievement.

41:19Andy Reid:But then to come back again this season and maybe you would be excused for dropping off a little bit, having won the FA Cup and having won the Community Shield or the Charity Shield and having lost your best player in SA. And there's been no drop-off at all. They've actually taken it to another level. And yeah, nothing but extreme sort of praise from me. Because I know how difficult it is. I've been in a similar seat to that and he's making it look very, very easy at the moment and it definitely isn't.

41:48Kevin Phillips:It's some coaching story, isn't it? That's brilliant. He came in with a big reputation, you know, the work that he'd done previously. And I think everybody expected him to do well. He came in and it took maybe a little bit of time to gel at the start. But now when you watch them play, and Gaz just touched on it there, when you watch them play, it looks like everybody knows their role. Everybody knows how they're going to defend. Everybody knows how they're supposed to attack. And they carry it out really, really well. They've still got some really good players there, even considering the ones that they've lost.

42:18Kevin Phillips:But for me, the structure... It's made it better as well, though. He has made them better and that's a sign of a good, you know, for me, when you look at good teams and good coaches, teams know how to defend, teams know how to attack and you make the players better on an individual basis. That's what makes a good coach for me. And I think you can see that in abundance when it comes to Palace.

42:36David Jones:Arnaz Slott was very honest in his interviews, isn't he? He said there could have been more than a goal down at halftime. We were watching in here and that was certainly the case. Palace had two or three really good chances even in that first half. Was this coming a little bit for them, for Liverpool?

42:49Andy Reid:Yeah, I don't know. They're a fantastic side. And similarly, if you think of the impact Arnie slotted on Liverpool last year to pick it up off of the job that Jürgen had done and to win the title in his first season, an incredible achievement. And you don't feel like they've fully got going yet, but it is the hallmark of all great sides that they find a way to win. And you felt maybe when they equalised today that if anyone was going to, you know, the way it had been going for them, they might go and get another one. But today they had to suffer at the other end. I'm sure they'll bounce back. You know, I don't know who they play next, but yeah, they've got a lot of depth there.

43:28Andy Reid:They've recruited really well again. Excellent recruitment department at Liverpool.

43:31David Jones:Well, it's Chelsea next week and then after the international break, they play Manchester United.

43:35Kevin Phillips:You know what, Liverpool is an interesting one. I probably can't remember a team that won the league and yet had a bit of an overhaul. It seems that a lot of new players have come in. They've lost players. Obviously, there's been kind of a lot going on over there over the summer. So it's probably a strange place to be for the champions to kind of have so many players go out and so many players kind of come in that they're still finding the way. Ekotike and Isak obviously coming in, still get kind of, they're going to take a little bit. Ekotike started really well, to be fair. But Isak's going to take a little bit of time to gel, but it looks for a top-class player.

44:14Kevin Phillips:When he hits a bit of form, you're going to be expecting him. These lads have got to keep their shirts on,

44:17David Jones:haven't they, Andy? That's the problem with people like Eke Tike Palina tonight. Did you used to wave your shirt around your head? I kept mine for you. Yeah, so it is a couple of weeks' time for Liverpool against Manchester United. And do you know what? It felt the story this week was all about Manchester United winning back-to-back games, which they hadn't done since the back end of the 2023-24 season. And it felt like Amarin himself was talking up the fact they really need to go and win back-to-back games and putting pressure on the team. And then they go to Brentford and find themselves on the wrong end of another defeat.

44:54David Jones:And you're wondering which way this story goes next. 33 games in charge now for Ruben Amarin at Manchester United. And he's taken 34 points from those matches. 17 defeats and a win ratio of just 27%. How does this play out, Andy?

45:13Kevin Phillips:For me, I think it's difficult to see it changing. They don't seem to have any kind of flexibility. I think he's made it really clear that they're not going to change formation. But he keeps saying he needs time. Yeah, but how long? You know, I do believe in giving managers and coaches time, but I also believe that there has to be, you have to be seen to, or you have to be able to see the improvements. You have to be able to see, oh, I can see where they're going with this. and I don't really see that on Man Utd. I'm seeing the same things this season that I've seen last season. I don't really see enough athleticism, particularly in the middle of the pitch.

45:48Kevin Phillips:So to play the way that he wants them to play, you need to have really, really athletic midfielders. You don't seem to have that. And for me, the biggest thing about Man Utd is that there's no real fear factor about playing against them anymore. You know, Brentford, we played against Man Utd teams where you go into Old Trafford or even they're coming to you and you're thinking, this is going to be a hell of a game today. It's not really that feeling. Teams are going into these games and they're thinking, we can beat these. And that's a big, big problem as well.

46:15Andy Reid:Yeah, I think, you know, they use the same shape as Crystal Palace, 5-2-3. And I just don't see them being a dominant force in that shape. So what's the difference? Explain to us what's the difference. Well, Crystal Palace, the game is built on being solid and transitioning. And I don't see that being acceptable at Manchester United. I don't see you being able to be a Manchester United team that sits behind the ball and just transitions. You need to go and dominate the game and you need to take the ball. I don't think you see many top sides around Europe playing with a back five. I don't think you see many at all.

46:49Andy Reid:I'm still really interested to see how he does with it because he's still obviously a work in progress. They've added a lot of players in the summer. But as Andy rightly says, there hasn't been real signs of improvement. It looks tough for Ameren at the minute. You see him having to do his press and it looks like a real tough grind for him at this moment, which is not nice to see someone go through. And I hope he manages to turn it around because I know he'll be giving every moment of every day to try and turn it around. And I hope they do. But it's going to need a big change for me. It's going to need something.

47:23Andy Reid:They're going to need to put an unbelievable run of results together to start to convince people that this can turn into the Man United that we're used to seeing.

47:30David Jones:Well, it's Sunday next before the international break. Do managers sort of feel a bit more stress about these games going into an international break, especially if you're on a difficult run?

47:42Andy Reid:Yeah, I suppose it is a natural time for clubs to look to make changes. I love to see managers given time as, you know, I'm biased, I'm a manager, so I want them to all be given time and to be given the opportunity to show how good they are. But international breaks, we do tend to see more changes and let's make no bones about it. Sunderland at home, newly promoted side when you're Manchester United. With the run they're on, it's going to be a must win for them. It's a big, big game.

48:09David Jones:Sunderland might be thinking the same thing, though, might they?

48:11Kevin Phillips:Sunderland will be looking forward to going there. Genuinely. But why not? They've got off to a great start. They've just got a forced win this evening away from home. They'll be relishing the chance to go there. And all the pressure is on Man United. Sunderland sat in a really nice position, really healthy position. they go there the crowd will be a bit anxious waiting on the team to kind of give them something Sunderland can just go there and do what they've done tonight sit in make it really really difficult and hope that they can get something again so I think they'll be looking forward to the game

48:43David Jones:They certainly will that is for sure Thank you very much Andy for being with us all evening and Gary thank you for popping in Thank you

48:56David Jones:Thanks for listening to the Sky Sports Premier League podcast Don't forget to hit follow so you don't miss an episode.