Where Does Confidence Come From?

23:11Just because, yeah, it's funny, though, because he's a filmmaker, so he does freelance. He was worried about the economic security of it, or he was worried about, like, the impacts? Because obviously we live in a time where, like, what happened to Hayden Pensioner? It's, like, so sad. Oh, they would never let me be a child star. No fucking way. I begged. And so I was— You begged to be a child star? Oh, my God. Are you kidding me? Hillary Duff? I was like, I need to be her. And they were like, okay, you have to go to four years of acting classes, and then we'll bring you to an audition. So I did that, and I did the audition for Go Diego Go, and I was the voice actress on that cartoon show.

23:43So technically was not on camera. Oh, yeah. Rude. But anyway, I was that for a season. I still get paid residuals for that show. Oh, we love residual. I was like, hola, I'm Alicia. Oh, yeah. Hablas Espanol. Si, hablo Espanol. Si, porque... Yo también. Ah, si, yo también. Minísimo. So it was Dora's cousin. Okay. Oh, her prima. Okay, perfect. For one season. Your dad won an eBay bidding war for you. Yeah. This is one of your Nepo baby artifacts. Yeah. It is a Juicy Couture diary. Yes. From when you were held? Probably like nine, eight, nine. And just in case you're worried about the woman who talks herself in the mirror, she didn't just bring this of her own accord.

24:17I asked her to bring this. Oh, I would have, though. I was so honored you asked. No one's ever asked to see it. Really? And you said when you came in, she's hilarious. Serena comes in and she's like, you know, this is my first diary. This is my first handjob. And I was like, wow, you gave a handjob to this diary. I wrote about my first handjob in there. I was like, there's no bananas in the house. There's no potassium. What do you want me to read? I just want you to choose something and read so we can get a little insight. Look at this photo of my parents. Oh, my God. When they were really young.

24:43Stunning, you look like your mother. Yeah, I look really like my mom. A lot like your mother. And my dad's coloring. And you have your dad's complexion. Okay, here we go. Sorry. Tell me, what would you like? I don't know. Just choose, like random. Okay, I'm going to choose a couple of different ones. So 12-year-old Serena, just so we can get a little bit of insight into. Well, this is, I think. Failed child star, future icon, Serena. F***ing Kerrigan. I don't want to say even failed. You reacted to the word failed. That's fair. Listen, the best thing my parents did for me was let me have a childhood.

25:09I was so mad at them. I really wanted to be—and I said to my dad, I really want to be famous. He's like, that's not a career. You need to have a talent and a skill and become really great at it. So I did the writing thing. But the best thing was I had a childhood. Like, I cannot be more grateful for that. It is so unnecessary to be a child star. You shouldn't be working. You should be vibing. Okay, this is when I was 15. Okay, let's see your 12-year-old vibes or 15-year-old vibes. 15. I had sex with Chris, and guess what? I'm in love with him it's a huge secret Chris has a huge dick and is a big dick crazy wow poetic wow 15 yeah oh my gosh okay hold on I'm gonna show you something a little younger okay here you're gonna love this this is so feminist of me where's Chris now?

25:49this I was about probably by the way in the book you change everyone's names but in the diary it's real yeah did you change the name? did I? some names I didn't change I was like sorry well Chris he still probably has a big dick I wonder if he's still a big dick He's going to be so happy about that. Defamation claim coming. Okay. What do you mean? Who would be upset about that claim? Okay, this is when I think I was about 10 or 11. This is, you're going to love this. This is Gloria Steinem would love this. Ready? Whoa, it's been forever. Many things have happened. Let's just say I wasn't the prude Serena at camp.

26:20For starters, I hooked up with Jesse. We went far. We both went to second. This is the handjob story. Okay, I went like this. This is how I gave him a handjob. You did not do it to the diary. Can you just give a handjob to the diary to examine how that would not be good? Do not give handjobs like this at home. Yeah, not good. Okay. Okay, ready? I didn't think it was a big deal, but just to be safe, I told him not to tell anyone. Both of those things turned around completely. Everyone knew. The teachers found out, called our parents. Now apparently I'm a slut? It was a disaster totally. I don't understand.

26:54When a guy hooks up with many girls, he's called a pimp in a good way. Underline good. When a girl hooks up with many guys, she's called a slut. In a bad way. All caps. Huh? Before I thought hooking up was cool. Now it's slutty. How did we get here? Jesse screwed me over. He told everyone. I think the worst part is that my parents don't trust me. Like my dad does, but my mom gets all suspicious. I guess I have to write her a note. Oh, wow. So drama. And then you did. I love that there's a cliffhanger. No, it's so good. I see I'm such a story writer. But actually, like, that insight is very clear.

27:28Because men are called PIMs. Women are called SUDs. And I got back to school, and I remember every guy in the hallway was going like this to me and making fun of me. And Jesse was, like, the cool guy and, like, got the handjob, even though it looked like Squidward. I remember it really shook me up. I noticed immediately the difference. Right. And I felt so ashamed. Yeah. But I kept giving handjobs. Don't worry. A little cliffhanger. We'll be right back. So your dad didn't want you to do this, but economically it's not that viable. The average influencer, I know you're not an influencer, you're an icon, but the average influencer makes less than the average nurse.

28:01Do you know that? I do. And so how did you make it into money? So when I worked at Refinery29, I noticed that they had a really big problem, which was all their content was free, and they had no product, like no tangible product they were selling. So all their money was dependent on advertising, like branded content, and investors. So it was a very hard thing to sustain. and I remember thinking, okay, if I leave, I'm going to have a product. And that's how I came up with my card game. I'd let's f***ing go, let's f***ing date. Let's f***ing play. I knew that I had to have some kind of tangible product where I wasn't dependent.

28:39You also made this Instagram series where you did 50 first dates, right? Called Let's F***ing Date. Think about this. Pandemic happens. I'm sitting alone in my apartment. And I remember just going live a lot on Instagram. Everyone was doing. It was like a thing. And I felt so alone. And my roommate abandoned me to go with her boyfriend to Connecticut. So I was like, f***. I decided to make a dating show where I'd go live on Instagram. And I had a producer vet the men. People would send in, like, guys for me to date. And everyone wanted to date me because the world was ending. And I was an icon.

29:05The producer would vet them. And I would go live, like, with my ring light in my living room. And then my producer would text me being like, let James123 in. So I would. And we would date for 30 minutes. And I did two back-to-back dates. Then I did an hour with the fans, bringing them on. What do we think about the guy? Then the ex-girlfriend would come. The mom would come in. It was crazy. It was a lot of drama. Did three seasons, BumbleBot episodes, whatever. It was so great. So from there, because I had to break the ice very quickly with these men because I didn't know them at all, hence why I created the card game.

29:34Okay, so the card game came out of the show. And now you have these card games, Let's F***ing Date, Let's F***ing Go, all the things. Let's F***ing F***. And you had an audience to sell them to because otherwise you would just have cards. Absolutely. And a diary. And listen, I think there's this perception that everyone just starts a product and it's perfect. Like, I really was like, okay, people were asking me for the questions I was asking these men. Yes. I thought of the game. I thought it would be really cute. I ordered 250 DAX. I said, if they don't sell, it's not a big deal. They were super cheap to make.

30:01It's paper. They sold out within 24 hours. And by the way, it was just let's f***ing date to start. Then I started making more. Then I was like, oh, let's do another iteration. So it took time. Like, it doesn't happen overnight, but I think you just have to listen to your gut with a product. So here's what I think is really interesting about you. So you build this independent business, and this is kind of like a 101 for anyone out there who wants to be a creator, an influencer, or an icon, as we would say. You put yourself out there. You start making something. This is the most important thing I think people don't get.

30:26Start making something. Because if you don't make something, you have no feedback. I'm telling you, the first episodes of my live dating show were so cringe. Oh, it's cringe when you look back at it, but it's cringe until you can monetize it. No, totally. And then you start building an audience. And then you're like, wait, I have a community. They want more. And you're giving them what they want, making products. Then what I think is interesting is there's a second act of your career that happens like post-pandemic where you get a serious deal with Peacock and you're writing a book. So all of a sudden, it's like more traditional media ecosystem comes in to kind of like eat you because they're like, oh, we need young audiences.

31:01Oh, I don't think that I was being eaten, but I love that you said that. I mean, do you not like being eaten? I do love to be eaten. Okay. Yeah, let's eat. If you look at that first era of like YouTubers, a lot of like the early YouTubers I knew, people like Marcus Butler, Connor Franta, et cetera, they had this like imagination in 2014 that they had millions of people watching them on YouTube, but they were like, when I get on Netflix, I'm going to be a star. And so there's this propelling thing for them, which was ironic because when they got maybe on Netflix, if they did, their audience would not be there.

31:34The audience was in that conversation, that community, et cetera. I'm curious what you felt in making that transition to fast forward now, eight years later, when we kind of saw that and we kind of knew that. Was it still important for you to get the TV show, get the book? Like, is the money so much better? Like, talk to me about why doing the traditional media things is a good idea for people who have built their own sustainable businesses online. Well, I think it's really interesting because now what is a traditional media business? Like, everyone's on TikTok. YouTube's creators have full-on studios.

32:05Yeah. So we're seeing a lot of influencers and creators now in that space. So I think there's a lot of blurring of the lines. Yeah, but Peacock, a subsidiary of NBCUniversal, is different to this. Correct. Right. In whatever name you want to give it. Listen, I always said, when I was at Duke, I didn't say I want to be an influencer. I always said I want my own TV show. Yeah, and you want to be famous. That's what I used to say when I was a kid, yes. And now I wouldn't say that. That doesn't interest me at all. I want to do what I love, and I love telling stories. For me as a creator, I think it's a little boring to just talk about myself all the time.

32:37I'm having a great time doing it with you right now. Yeah, I was going to say. But picking up my phone every day and be like, this is what I'm eating, this is what I'm wearing. I don't find it very challenging or interesting. I think the challenge of writing a book, I wrote a movie, which I cannot wait to send to you to read because I feel like you'll eat that shit up. But it's like, that's what I'm actually interested in doing. I don't know if it's because that's what I wanted to do when I was 15. No. But I do think that when Peacock called me and was like, we're doing a creator program and you're going to be able to go through the green light process.

33:03And if you get green light, you're going to make a show. I mean, when you go out and do that stuff, do you read bad reviews or do you only read good reviews or do you not read any reviews? I read everything. You read everything, right? We all read everything. Do we not? Yeah. And I actually, like, really, I'm not— By the way, guys, I want you to review the show and give it a good review, but I like reading bad reviews, not just because I learn and all that, but also because I know that then I'm reaching people that are beyond my friends and, like, people who already like me. So if you're not getting some hate, you're just not big enough, I think.

33:32For sure. I think criticism is totally valid. I think that even with that Peacock show, I read the criticism, and I think it's par for the course. What is your advice for people to deal with rejection or to deal with, like, people not liking them? There's no one that can evade rejection. It is truly a part of life. Like, everyone's going to get rejected. Everyone you know is going to get rejected at some point. Even the people that you think are, like, you put on a pedestal. I think you're never going to be able to evade it, but I think there's a way for you to not let it puncture you and puncture your armor.

34:01And realizing that, like, there's a lot of exposure therapy. The more that you get rejected, the less it stings. Totally. Two, I also really fundamentally believe that every time I've been rejected, it really, like, took me to a different – it redirected me to a better place. Always, always, always. I think there's, like, also a learning I took from your book, which is, like, you were going on these dates and you were – I think you called it, like, pre-rejecting men because you were – you thought they would reject you or you thought that you were too much or whatever it is. Yeah. And so, like, I think there are two lessons I kind of, like, took from that, which is, like, one, don't pre-reject as an armor to being rejected.

34:36And two, don't reject yourself. Just look at yourself in the mirror and say, Serena, f***ing care again. Amen. Okay, I want to ask you for, like, three rapid-fire advice questions. Okay, what is your advice to aspiring influencers, icons, say the word? It's very difficult, but you really have to let go of how you're being perceived. It's really hard. Even as someone who does it, I really think, like, as much as you can really let go that no one's f***ing thinking about you. because they really aren't. They don't give a shit. It's like what your mom said. Like the zit on your face is nobody else's problem but yours and no one else looking at it.

35:04Like they're just seeing your whole face. Okay, number two, what about for reluctant influencers? Reluctant icons. So people who've like kind of come into, been thrust into the light. Maybe they dated someone famous. Maybe they were a child star and now they're done with that chapter. Do you have advice for them? I think at the end of the day, like time is the most precious resource you'll never get back. So what do you want to do with your time? What about advice to parents of like this 57 % Gen Z population that wants to be an influencer, what's your advice to their parents? Okay, there's two pieces of parenting advice.

35:37One is stop trying to be best friends with you. Stop calling your kid your best friend. I think that's, sorry, cuckoo banana. But in terms of the whole influencer thing, I think it's just, I think it's like any other profession. Why are you asking specifically about an influencer and a parent? I thought your advice was going to be like, give them a childhood. That's like, yeah. Oh, oh. Like, just like if you have a kid who's like jet alpha or gen z who wants to grow up to be in the spotlight i don't know i don't know about that that's really interesting like i don't even know if i'll put my kids on social media i feel like it's there's too much surveillance like kids like aren't f***ing up there aren't like blacking out anymore they're not even going getting drunk anymore they're so afraid of being filmed like there needs to be that preservation of being a kid again and i don't know i'm not a parent i'm sure it's so hard and you're like here's the f***ing ipad yeah i'm sure but i I, as much as I can, I would not.

36:27Well, yeah. I don't know because they don't want to be influencers. It's really hard. It is really hard. Or like, I hope they want to be a doctor. Their quality of life is very different. That is actually what I think about a lot is we're all projecting all the time and on the screens. Like, how does that technology change our human experience? And when everyone's got their own channel, like, who's watching? I mean, I find that, like, less and less. Maybe that's why I'm going after the peacocks and the book. It's like I'm craving the experiences where I'm not showing my life online. Yeah. And you have a big one, which is you have a boyfriend who is not so on the internet.

36:58Right. And we're going to talk about that after the break. More after the break. So now I want to... Low energy, unfocused, foggy. You might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

37:34Fall has never looked or tasted this good. Sweet Greens Fall Harvest Menu is back with seasonal favorites dressed to impress and made to be devoured. Warm roasted sweet potatoes, crisp apples, maple glazed Brussels, and crave worthy flavors in the autumn harvest bowl, maple glazed salmon plate, and roasted bacon Brussels side. The season's most desirable menu has returned to Sweetgreen, featuring fall's best dressed. Make your move. Order on the Sweetgreen app. Talk about dating. You've written a book about dating. It's really, I think, a book about confidence. But you said that you read the old books about dating.

38:10Mm-hmm. All of them. All of them. Okay, what are they? Why Men Love Bitches, Getting Him to I Do, The Rules. Okay, so I have not read these books. And I want to know the summary of these books. So can you give me like the one-line summary? The book, The Rules. These very strict rules you have to abide by in order to get a man to marry you. Okay. The book Getting Him to I Do? Similar. Why Men Love Bitches. I love that book. I just felt like that book is very much about not being a doormat to men. Like not being a pick-me, not being like trying to be really likable, which I find is really interesting because I think now the opposite problem is happening.

38:50which I faced. Like the too cool to care you call it, right? Right, exactly. That or being so overassertive where you're like, I'll make the reservation. Like, I'll handle this. I'll make the plan. Like, I'll pay for the bill. Like, let him pursue you. Let him, literally let him. It's interesting. I think that now that women are making their own money and they're making a way at the table and like they have to be assertive to make these things happen for themselves. They're entering like that on dates and it's kind of, it's working against them. That's how I felt for me. It's cutting the feminine energy.

39:21Right. I don't call it that in the book. Which is not anti-feminist. That's why I didn't use those terms in the book. I used, like, controlling versus trusting. Like, instead of controlling a situation you trust that it's going to unfold, that the man's going to come pursue you. I didn't use masculine versus feminine energy for that reason, that I was afraid that people would get confused because men can have feminine energy and women. It's just too generous. You didn't want to be canceled so you didn't use the terms. Correct. Exactly. It was too binary. How smart am I? Exactly. Okay, can we do a little paddle round?

39:50Yeah. So I'm going to read you the rules from the book The Rules. Oh my God, okay. I did not actually read the book The Rules. So this is an AI interpretation of the book The Rules. If there's any inaccuracy on it, it's not my fault, it's Claude's. Be a creature unlike any others. Green, you're going to approve the rule. Okay, great. That's the first rule. Yeah, like you are. Just be a prize. It's the same thing as mine. Be a prize. Don't talk to a man first. Don't ask him to dance. You're a rat on that. Okay, so you think you can talk to him first. Yeah. Yeah. Don't ask him on a date, though.

40:19Yeah. It's fine to talk to a man first, but don't ask him to dance. Is the other thing? You can ask him to dance. You can't ask him on a date, like, afterwards. Here's a one. I think it's so funny. I think you ask him to dance. This is so crazy. Don't stare at men or talk too much. What were these women doing? That's what I'm saying. These books are a little antiquated. Don't stare at a man. I actually disagree. I say to I f*** them. I f*** them. Yeah, I know. You have a completely different thing. Okay, great. I mean, don't I f*** them into oblivion. But yeah, like give them a little. Yeah, I feel like, I don't know about the I f***.

40:50I feel like it's an I-vitation, an I-vitation. I prefer f***, but that's also because that's on brand for me. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Don't meet him halfway or go Dutch on a date. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Men need to pursue, how much money do you spend on your hair, your nails, your skincare, your outfit? Men literally shower and they're ready. Like it's so f***ing annoying. They put no effort into their vibe. And that's fine. They don't have to. I'm so passionate about this. I can't even believe this is up for debate. Yes, they are refunding you for your prepaid caretod appointment.

41:23As you should. By taking you out on the day. I also think, by the way, it's like the waxing, everything. Oh, my goodness. But the whole also biology of men are wanting to spread their seed or whatever. Yeah. If a man is taking you out, there should be some stakes in that. Don't call him and rarely return his calls. Yeah, I disagree. I disagree, too. Definitely return his calls. Also, is he calling you? Let's be honest. Probably texting him. I love a caller. Love a caller. Love. I feel like my only date caller is all of my call day. Gen Z is afraid, I feel like, of the phone. Yeah, but we love a phone.

41:51We love a phone call. Always end the phone call first. I don't do this, but I actually think it's good advice. I agree. Good advice. I agree. Get off the phone. It's hot. I'm like so bad. You have somewhere to be. Irish exit that phone call. Just like he's talking like, hey, Serena? Yeah. Hello? Yeah. Maybe say goodbye. Say you're busy. No, I like an Irish exit from the phone call. That would be amazing. That's crazy. Don't accept a Saturday night date after a Wednesday. I find this is bonkers. Yeah, I don't. Like, what do you even, I don't even know what I'm doing. What day of the week is it?

42:19Always end the date first. Okay, so. I agree. Two drinks and ditch, guys. Two drinks and ditch. Nothing good happens after a second drink. Ever. No marathon dating, please. Don't see him more than once or twice a week. I feel like you moved in with your boyfriend, like, within 24 hours. I did. I think that, but I do think that when you first start dating, two days, I always say, like your best friend, your friendships are the blueprint. Would you see your best friend more than twice a week? Three times in one week is a lot. I think cap it at two. Okay, no more than casual kissing on the first date.

42:53I agree with this. Just listen, if you sleep with him on the first date, power to you. I've done it many a time. The reason why I suggest don't is because I think that the oxytocin really f***s with your head and it's difficult to perceive like what, do you actually like him? Are you just detached because of the hormones? And then I think that you can't really... Totally agree. You need to be in a place of observing. It's hard to do that when he's inside of you. I mean, we'll just play back your 12-year-old self, which is like, I slept with Chris and I love him. Like, guess what? I'm in love with him.

43:22You're not in love with him. That's just the biology speaking. But yes, exactly. You're 100 % right. It's oxytocin. And the anticipation is so good, to put it in positive terms. Absolutely. They're like, it's exciting. It's anticipating. So you don't know them. They don't need to be inside of you. It's just too much. It is actually like a whole thing. It's really close. I have to say, that is the thing. that like straight men do not understand this. The intimacy of someone being inside of you. It's a lot. For a first date, you've just met them. Like, I think let's slow down. I recently asked a friend this about like whether men are really counting dates or like counting currency.

43:56Because I have a theory that men don't have like a countdown clock. Like it's one date, two date, three days, four days. But that they do have like a calculator of like, I've spent this much on this woman and she hasn't yet put out. Do you think that's? Oh, I don't know if that's true. I really think that's true. So I said this to a friend. and this friend dates women and she said, yes, boys talk to her like, she's a guy because she dates women and they say that to her. I've spent like, a dinner and drinks and interesting. She done out those men. I'm telling you, these boys are keeping a tab. Honestly, dating is expensive.

44:28Dating is expensive. But that's not our problem. Okay. Don't open up too fast. Be more specific. I feel like I'm an oversharer. I think we don't need to be talking about our exes on the first date. Yeah, whatever. I think you need to just be yourself. because you cannot change yourself. But also, they're not your therapist. Hold on. You be yourself, but let's keep it light. I think for first thing, keep it light. Yeah, keep it light. You know what I used to do? What? I would go on dates with guys, and I would be like, don't look at my social media because I was so afraid of the SFK. I'm like, what do you think they would do at Effort or Everyday?

44:58Of course, as soon as you said it, they'd go look. Were you dating online? Yeah, on Hinge and everything. And then, of course, the way that my boyfriend was because he saw my social media, thought it was so interesting, invited me to his podcast, and that's how we found out. Yeah, he used podcasts as a path to marriage. Which is interesting for you. I know. Should I be doing that? Absolutely. Why am I wasting my time with this bitch? She already made a guy, man. I get some single man in this chair. I think you should. Wait, okay, last one. Don't date a married man. I love that they waited until number 47 in the rules or something.

45:28Do not date. Did you see that chapter in my book? I did. The chapter in my book is called How to Date a Married Man. Yeah. It goes step one, don't. Don't. Karma is a bitch. And then they say, even if you're engaged or married, you still need the rules. Do you think that's true of, like, your book? Do you feel like your book still applies? Like, you're not making Felix pay for everything after you're on the podcast. No, absolutely not. No, no, no. And I disagree. And that's also why, like, the rules sometimes gives me anxiety because I'm like, I'm not following these rules. I think you have to be yourself.

45:54You have to find someone that you feel safe with and not overthink this so much. Of course I pay for things. It's like the dating chapter of your life over. Are you engaged? Are you married? None of those things. Okay, so you're dating. The second to last chapter of my book is called Marriage is Not the Finish Line. I haven't gotten to there yet. But it's because I can tell you. I'm having a tantric reading of your book. I love that. I'm just like, wait, I'm not going to let it finish. Love. I mean, honestly, the whole point of the chapter is just basically I think that we're sold this idea that we have to, like, race to this finish line that's marriage and the wedding and the ring.

46:25And I'm not sure that that's – I think that's the starting line. I love that you talk so much about how you, like, you reach for, like, Brides magazine when you were a kid. Yeah. Like you were obsessed with this idea of getting married and now you've kind of let go of it. Not even let go of it. I think it was just the dresses or something. I don't know. I used to have a Swaxon plan. What's that? A secret wedding action plan. Okay. A surprise wedding. I don't even know if the S was for surprise or for secret. But the idea was basically like I found it really weird kind of around, I want to say the age of seven or eight, when I noticed there are so much weddings.

46:57First of all, Pakistani weddings are five ceremonies. Right. That's a whole production. Outfits. The whole thing. Literally love. And we're obsessed with the doula and the bride. Like, we're obsessed with the bride. But I was like, I don't want anyone asking me this many questions. So I'm going to have a surprise or secret wedding. So I would just basically invite everybody for like a birthday and then be like, oh, my God. I'd be like, my 26th birthday. That has long passed. I would invite everybody and then just one day be like, and we're getting married. No foreplay. Just action. And then out.

47:25See, I'm not going to do that. But I like that. It's cute for you. I like that. You don't want the five-day ordeal? I love that. I don't know. That ceremony. Maybe for you, Sarita. I know. If you find me a good friend. I should have married a Pakistani, honestly. I'm pissed. I'm seriously. Or Indian. It's not too late for Felix to become Pakistani. You're right. He can be a little fusion man. Okay, so you met your man, Felix, on this podcast. He invites you in with the goal of dating you, presumably, right? Not at all. Really? Like, not at all. He said no. I don't believe this. I do believe him.

47:53Girl, it really wasn't like that until it was immediately. It was crazy. I didn't even wear mascara. I mean, I got glam for your podcast. I'm not saying that. I didn't even like, I just showed up being like. Yeah, we might f***ing date, Sarita. You're not married yet. And you want a Pakistani. I'm just saying. Things could happen, Felix. I'm not saying you thought you were going to date him, but he didn't think. Really? No. But it's amazing. The chemistry was flying. It was flying. But he's six years younger than me, so that was. So yeah, so you find this out on your third date. Okay, so there are three kind of gaps that you and Felix have that I see.

48:23Oh. Not in your relationship, but between one another. There's an age gap. Six years. He was 23 when I met him, and I was 29. Okay? That's crazy. He was living at home. That's why we moved in so quick. Everyone lives at home, but you mean his parents' home. Okay. The second gap is a wealth gap because you are further along in your career, etc. And then the third is an alcohol gap. He wasn't a drinker. So age gap, wealth gap, alcohol gap. Which one is the most challenging to navigate in your relationship? Well, can I just say something before I answer that? Yeah. Those are the three gaps. But on the flip, both only children.

48:59Parents both got divorced when we were two. Our moms are foreigners. We're bilingual. Our dads are artists and American. We're both born on the 22nd. We both grew up in New York City. So we have a lot of culturally, like, we have very similar values. We're also both Jewish. So it's like there's more of that for the gaps. The biggest one, I think the age was the biggest because it spilled into the finances and then the career stuff, which I think it is. I don't think that age matters at all. Like, at all. He's so mature for his age. Yeah, I don't think it matters. I think it's more just like I was 29, about to turn 30.

49:28I have the card games I had the peacock show already I had a full career and he was like I'm a year out of college I have a podcast I don't really want to do anymore and like I don't know what I'm doing next it's a very different time in your life it's totally different but you felt confident that that time delta didn't matter as time went on correct and it doesn't and he now has his own venture capital fund like he's doing amazing things he's grown up so much okay okay calm down mommy what's happening I'm dead I love that but I literally I'm telling you I'm telling you the one rule I had with dating that was I was like I'm never f***ing dating a younger guy ever are you kidding me they can't handle me they can't handle my success like there's no way I won't even date a guy I'm sure you got this I'm sure you got this feedback because I get this a lot people will be like you're probably gonna end up with an older man because you've had so much life experience you've had such a which I think is kind of misogynistic a little bit right like why do you need a daddy because they can't handle you a guy can't handle you It's like it's low-key like a diss.

50:28I don't like it at all. And only women get served that bullshit, of course. So, of course, that's what I thought. I mean, I could think of a lot of men that I'd be like, you're going to end up with a younger woman. Well, obviously. It's part of the course. So everyone told me that. And I was like, I agreed. So on my dating apps, I would not even send it to my age. Always older, a year older, beyond. Think about how many men I missed out on dating. So, of course, I ended up with the younger guy because it doesn't really – it doesn't matter. His maturity level, he's like 40 years old. He doesn't even drink.

50:55He doesn't go out. Like, he's literally an old-ass man. I did think that the discrepancy was with the financial part of, like, I wanted to go to Lake Como to a five-star hotel. And he was like, yeah, like, I can't do that yet. But what I saw underneath it all was the values of him being super ambitious, working really hard, like, wanting to provide. Like, paying for dinners and stuff, but also being honest about when he couldn't afford something. That, to me— That's sexy. Just a man who knows. A man who makes some decisions. Instead of overcompensating and, like, trying to keep up and, like, no, he was just, like, I remember, like, for my birthday, he got me, like, a bracelet with a diamond and just, like, he really, it's just very sweet.

51:34It's everything so intentional, so thoughtful. And I realized that, like, I could look at my friends who were in their 30s who were getting married or, like, had partners that were so much ahead and compare. But I also could realize that, like, why? Why compare? Why? And it's not just what he's doing. It's also that you were, like, ready to receive that. I wonder also if, like, the whole egg freezing thing that we talked about, like, all of that, like, also settles your mind, right? Oh, 100%. I feel like it totally settled my hormones in my mind. I couldn't date a man six years younger than me who's not in a place to have—I mean, all my friends are starting to have kids.

52:06Like, it's a conversation. Obviously, like, now, luckily, like, people are having kids later, but it would be a very different conversation if I didn't freeze my ex. It's such a blessing, truly. I think it really allows you to have the age gap that you did before, and it's so in. Something else that we have in common is that we're six years apart and our parents are also both six years apart. In that direction or in the other direction? My mom is six years older than my dad. Really? Yeah. And then his dad is six years older than his mom. But that was also something else that my mom couldn't freeze her eggs.

52:33Do you see what I mean? Yeah, of course. Cougar icons. Two of them. Sly. We love. We love. Felix is a privacy guy, right? Like he's a private guy? Yes. Is that a tension? Is that a gap? I do feel sometimes this pressure to show our relationship, like, be like, well, you know. Because people care about it. It really stems from seeing other couples do the twirls and the makeouts and the kissing in the sunset. And, like, if your man doesn't do this, like, dump him. And it's, like, the cutest thing ever. And I've said to him, like, I feel this pressure to, like, put out that content. And he's just like, it's just not my thing.

53:09Like, I love you. I support everything you do. But, like, I just don't want to be, like, making out in a video. Yeah. And I think that at first it pissed me off. It really did. And now I'm like, that is so fair. And I also am like, I wonder if like, do I need to be, do I need the validation of the internet for my relationship? No, I don't. Like we're great. And also I sometimes feel like the couples that do tend to overcompensate by showing how amazing their relationship is, like deep down, maybe there's some things that they want. I never know. I never like to say it because I never like to have aspersions on what's going on with other people.

53:40I don't even think like two people know what's going on in their relationship let alone someone knowing on what's going on in someone else's relationship. Like, the two people together couldn't tell you the f***ing story. Couldn't agree more. I just don't think the performance is necessary. I'm, like, so into PDA. Like, I'm constantly into PDA. But I do not like DDA, digital displays of affection. Oh, okay. You just told me something. I love that. I'm just making it up. I'm pointing it. This is a smart girl, dumb questions, coinage. But digital displays of affection. Like, forever, permanent, on screen, for everybody, people outside.

54:07It's like, whatever. Like, I'll make out in a gondola. Like, by the way, I have had sex in a gondola going down for the spring. This better stay in the clip, baby. This better stay in the podcast. But I will say, but like, I would not make out with someone and put it on the internet. All things equal. I am obsessed with PDA. I'm obsessed. I would do DDA, but I also— But your man won't do DDA with you. She's just like— He's not into DDA. She's not into it. And you know what? Let him. Let him. Let him. Is there anything that didn't make it in the book that was left on the cutting room floor because Felix said so?

54:40Honestly, let me think. Give me a real f***ing answer. It really was honest. I just didn't want it to become a, like, my relationship is the best. Like, I really wanted to be honest with the drinking stuff, too. Come on, there must have been one thing that got taken out of the book. That was too juicy to be in the book. That you took the f***ing letter U out of the book. That was not my choice. I know, I know. But I'm just saying. No notes? I love a cutting room floor moment. Come on. I know. I want to give it to you so bad. Oh, oh, oh. Okay, I have something for you. Sorry. That was kind of dilly-dallying.

55:11Felix says OCD. So I feel like I didn't really want to go into depth about that because it was just, like, not my thing to share. Yeah, it's not your story. So there you go. Are you okay with us keeping it in here? For sure, absolutely. Like, he's obsessed with showering cleanliness. I'm, like, so type-y when it comes to that. Yeah. I mean, I shower. I mean, do you? Sometimes. No, I— Like, he taught me, like, the meaning of, like, showering after an airplane, which I never used to do. Oh, my God. I'm like, I can't imagine. I basically like get naked. Like what people were doing in the pandemic when they were like stripping when they came home from the grocery store.

55:43It's like me from LaGuardia. No, literally. I'm like, take it all. Now I can't even imagine. Oh, my God. He makes me take my socks off like everything. Everything has to go off. And by the way, your suitcase, you know what you have to do? You have to put those Clorox bleaches. You're going to tell. This is going to be such kink for you guys. I am going to make your sex life great tonight. When you come back from the airport, you put the Lysol cleaning wipes at the bottom of the wheels. Okay. And you roll it over. and it rolls, oh, it's a little ASMR roll and a little bit like, you know, he's going to like that, right?

56:13He's going to love that. This is foreplay for an OCD boy. I used to date a guy who had an OCD and we lived together for a couple years and he was like afraid of bedbugs which don't exist in San Francisco where we were living and like every time I ordered something, which is all the time, he would put it in the freezer and I'm like, do you think the factory from like ASOS has? No, yeah, it gets to a point. It really does. But you know what, that's what, we all have our quirks. We all have our quarks. And it's definitely, and I will say this about Felix, knock on wood. Where is there wood here? Over there.

56:42There. Oh, my God. I have to go. You have to fly like the fly. Yes. Knock on wood. I'm doing it because it's like, you'll see why. Ever since we've dated, I've gotten sick maybe once. Oh, my gosh. If ever. Yeah, because germs. Because I wash my hands so much. I love it. I hope that Felix keeps you in good health. He does. But although maybe you'll love him in sickness and in health. I will see. It hasn't happened yet, so. No signals to be had. Do. Oh, wait. And every episode of Smart Girl Dumb Questions with a question. Right. I ask my guests a question they have that they don't know the answer to.

57:14A dumb question that you've been afraid to ask out loud. How do airplanes work? How do planes fly? Yeah. I don't understand. It is crazy. It is so heavy. Yeah. I mean, they just. They go with the wheels. Yeah. With the things that are like. Yeah. It's just incredible to think about. It is incredible that we like do not know. Like, we do not actually know, but we trust. Right. A hundred percent. And also, like, what else could fly? Like, why does it have to be that? Like, I mean, paper airplanes, like, does it have to be that size? Also, why can't they make everything first class? Like, why? Just make it longer.

57:46I mean, that is the thing. Also— That's a better question. Why? Charles Portz just asked this question when he was, like, delayed on, I feel like it was lifetons or something. He's like, how come there are not enough baggage handlers? Like, there's always this much baggage. Right. How have you ever been in a situation where, like, you get to an airport and you're like, there's no baggage? And also, like, the jet bridge. Like, when they make you take the, like, the dinky one in Heathrow and you, like, walk down the stairs and get on a bus. Why do those exist? No one wants to go on those. Nobody wants to do that.

58:10After a flight, they can't figure it out. So, anyways, there's a whole series we can do just on airplanes. Serena f***ing Kerrigan. The book is called Let's F***ing Date. The card games are called Let's F***ing Date. Let's f***ing play. Let's f***ing go. Let's f***ing all the things. You didn't want to say f***, did you? Oh, let's f***ing f***? Is that an LFF? Yes. Aloofofa? Situation? A lufefa situation. You need to play with your... Oh, yeah. Suitor. Okay. I shall. I shall play with my suitor. Okay. You're amazing. I really appreciate you having me on. This was so fun. I could talk to you forever.

58:41I know. Well, we will. We'll continue to talk because now that I know that we met at Gloria Steinem's... I'm like, how did I not know? But it's actually... She was the main character. Thank you so much for hanging with me. This was so fun. And for reading to us from your diary. We appreciate you.

58:57that's it for this episode with serena kerrigan or serena kerrigan i think she gives some fucks like the right amount not too many not too little just like the right goldilocks amount of fucks given um and she may have inspired me to use my mirror more often i hope it was an interesting portal for you into today's creator economy the dating economy the confidence economy whether you're nepo baby nepo baby light or just like the rest of us but i'm so curious what you thought Would you want your kid to be an influencer? Would you want to be an influencer or an icon, as she put it? Leave us a comment below.

59:28Please leave us a review, ideally with five f***ing stars. And definitely subscribe to this show wherever you are watching or listening to it. It helps us so much if you do that. And please, please share it with your best f***ing friend. If this episode was too much swearing for you, you can share another episode instead. This episode was produced with Melissa Lee Gibson, Sanjana Nigam, and Sheena Ozaki. It was edited by Devi Chin, engineered by Jamie Van Korf, mixed by Fernando Arruda, and shot by the amazing Desta Wonderad in Wonder Studios in Manhattan. I'm your host, Naima Raza, and I'll see you next week for an all-new Smart Girl, Dumb Questions, Less Swearing.

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