"Benedict Cumberbatch"

24:23Quick, what are their names? Fuck. Gary. What's else I know? Yeah. Target, Tesco, and British Petroleum. Tannis and Shanley are my sisters, and my brother's name is Chuck, a.k.a. Charles. So anyway, I was at boarding school, but I went when I was 12, and you do have, and I'm still friends with some of those guys that I went to school with, because in those formative years, and I also was just an all boys when I went it was all boys it's now co-ed but it is when I look back on it now and I don't know how you feel about it Benedict the idea of my boys going away there's no fucking way I couldn't stand off not unless they really want to but no way and selfishly I want them around I want to be part of whatever dad however pushed away I am I still want to be there in case the cool comes, the fool happens, the need.

25:22Yeah, so can I ask a question to the group here? Yeah. Because I don't have kids. I guess so. I mean, just one kid. Let me look at the clock real quick. If you make it quick, yes. Yeah, Benedict, get comfortable. This is going to be a long question. Oh, shit. Benedict took his jacket off when you asked a question. It's hot on here. No, is what is the, because I don't know about boarding school. why would a parent send their kid to boarding school? Better education, focus. Okay. Yes, question? Amazing facilities. Yeah. Very immersive educational experience where, you know, you have, well, the beginning of it only, where you have a very structured timetable.

26:04So there's sort of purpose to your day. It's very fulfilling. God, I sound like a brochure. Yeah, because it always sounds like a jail or something. No, no, no. They're very plush places. It's like Hogwarts. It's like incredible. Yeah. Oh, I mean. That is exactly how it was described once by Martin Freeman. He said, I went to a north school and Benedict went to Hogwarts, which I kind of did. It wasn't wizard school, but it was a particularly old one. It is, but it is true. And, you know, think about all those things. You learn how to, you know, by the time I got to college, I dropped out quickly from college.

26:37But, and part of it was because everybody, my peers who were there, who did not go to boarding school, it was their first time away from home. and I'd been away from home so much earlier that getting out, I was ready to get out of the world. I was like, fuck all that. I'm ready to go. I've been looking after. And I was having a frat party and like, isn't it cool to put, yeah. And you're like, no, I've already done this. True, true, true, true. And I think, I don't know. I'm here and I've come out of it okay and I wouldn't really change it. I wouldn't know what I'd change it to. I didn't have any other experience, but.

27:10Like Jason, who taught you how to tie a tie? Oh, that would have been the second. The set dresser, the on-set costumer for Arrested Development. Is that true? No. Yeah, really. But I did really nail it down on that because I had to tie a tie every freaking day. And then loosen it. And then loosen it. And then roll up the sleeves. Roll up the sleeves. Because Michael Bluth, can I just say something just as an aside? Michael Bluth, this guy got down. Well, he got down to business. He was rolling up those sleeves. if you go back and you watch Jason push his sleeves up on the rest of the till to this day Will you've given me a full complex about that because that's just that's just Jason that's not Michael Bluth it's just I always roll up my sleeves on a button down shirt and I still do it to this day and I think I hear your stupid fucking GMC voice every morning when I roll up my sleeves getting down to business stupid fuck alright now I look at you two Was that when you two first met on Arrested Development?

28:15I think so. Too long. Yeah. And now we're stuck on this podcast. I know. So now you must have loved... You guys, it's such a blast being out. I have to say, I'm a huge, huge fan of this show, and it's just one of these things one of my best friends put me on to. He said, have you got to hear the... I mean, I love all of your work individually, but yeah, it's a very good thing you've got going here. It's fantastic. Thanks, man. Now listen, back to you. You must have enjoyed the education at the boarding school enough. He sounded like pets when I said that. You've become a teacher yourself. And you teach English in a Tibetan community.

28:54Oh, good segue. What's untrue? Just outside of Djarling, India. Yeah. Yes? I like that. Especially the pronunciation of Djarling. That's the idea. No, I was... How do you say it? How do you say it? We should all now say it, de Jarling. What is it? How do you say it? Did you go to de Jarling, darling? No, de Jarling, I think. De Jarling, that's it. De Jarling. De Jarling. Did you go to de Jarling? No, I didn't have the time. It's great. My dad has this habit of doing, he says, oh, I think I'm going to go to Mark's and Spencer's and buy a Mars bar. Dad, what? You're a trained actor. What did I do?

29:34Well. Every summer in Ibiza, I like to DJ. For like a week or two, I'll go down there to DJ. Wow. DJ. DJ. DJ. Sorry, yes. So it is true. Wait, so you taught. You taught English in a Tibetan community? Yeah, I mean, teach is a very loose term. I kind of turned up and they giggled at me, which was a fair enough cultural exchange. Well, no, it was very unfair. I learned so much, as you can imagine. I was a 19-year-old kid who knew nothing. He'd come from a very kind of enclosed private school, boarding school education. And it was the first talk at the school that we had given to us. This is the kind of school I went to.

30:19We got given talks about what you could do with your year out if you wanted to take one between school and university school and college. Yeah, a little gap year. A little gap year, exactly. And it was the first one I heard about, and I just went, I didn't really listen to it being about teaching. It was all about being close to Tibetan culture. I just had this very strong gravitational pull in my soul. I thought, I have to do this. There's nothing. And people go, don't you want to volunteer in Africa? Don't you want to climb a mountain? All these amazing opportunities. And I just was deaf to all of them because of how strongly I felt I needed to do this.

30:53What was the pull to the Tibetan culture? When did that start? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe in a previous lifetime. I really don't know. Whoa. I mean, I was fascinated by it visually, and I knew a bit about Buddhism, but it was just so overwhelming. And as was the experience I had there, it was six months of, well, five months of teaching, and then some tourism tied to the end. Wandering about, yeah. Wandering about India, yeah, and Nepal, both of which were extraordinary. Any poll from Everest at all? Was that part of the poll at all? Because I've got this fascination with Everest, but was that part of it at all?

31:31Should we do it? I'll do it. I mean, Mike. Yeah, I want to get at least a base camp in my lifetime. Wouldn't I love that? I would, but then you hear about how much pollution there is, how much tourism and craziness there is, and I kind of go, well, maybe there's a better mountain to walk. Watch how quickly we can turn Jason off Everest. Do you know how dirty it is, Jason? Wait, what? Yeah. Wait, what? And the tents. The tents are really dirty. I just shower every night. No, they don't have showers. They don't change the linens? No, they don't change the linens. You can't use sanitizer. There's no ring to that.

32:01That would be scary. But, all right, so that was... The landscape did have a pull, in all seriousness. Of course it did. It's such an extraordinary bit of geography, that whole area. And this is in the foothills, so going towards Darjeeling, and it's a little hill station town called Sanada. And it was a converted Nepali house, and at the top was this monastery, this prayer room. Below was the monks' accommodation, the eating area, and then a small teaching area. and I might have got the height or numbers of levels wrong but I was basically very much on the bottom and it was really, we were high up, what, 4 ,000 meters, something like that.

32:39And you open the window and it was sort of coming into autumn and winter there so the clouds would literally roll in like dry ice through the window. It was absolutely extraordinary. And pretty basic, my dad reminded me, his panic, this is pre-cell phones, I'm that old and the internet as well, I'm that old. and it was a moment where I'd written in tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny scrawl on a blue airmail letter home one weekend. Don't worry, Dad. All the cold is solved now in my room as I have a gas heater and I've managed to block all the vents. And he was reading it going, oh my God, he's going to die of carbon monoxide poisoning.

33:17I didn't, but you know, might explain a few brain cells less that I have now. It was very basic, but very romantic. very hard very lonely very elating very inspiring and spiritually mind-blowing and utterly mundane and it was just a really How do you clean yourself? How do I clean myself? Sorry, Benedict Like how do you We're talking about how many days how many days are you out there? Sean's talking to somebody off camera He's setting up the weekend He's talking to his dog licking his balls How do you do that? We all want to know, Sean. We all want to know. I'll show you. That's my teaching class.

33:59That's my teaching class. He's talking to somebody off camera. Show me after. When I'm done, I'm doing the podcast and show me. Sean, your mic's still hot. I can't wait to see. Show you, show me after.

34:19No, I'm recording a podcast. I'm doing it now, but you start. start now they can't see start

34:29okay wait I want to know the answer okay back to business what the fuck what was your question about how do I clean myself yeah even the real in general when you're in a small street in a lovely house yeah no when you with melted snow when you're out there in a tent for what days weeks what do you how do you what do you do? No, no, no, no. I was in a house. I was in a house. Oh, next question.

35:04He's filling in for someone this week, Benedict. I thought you were in a tent. Is it a zipper or buttons? Is it a zipper or buttons? Show me a zipper. Do you need a loofah back there? Scotty, get the loofah. All right, so let's move to that. Now, so we're back from Dejarling, and we're going to make a... The DJ. We're back from DJing, and we're going to make a career of this acting thing. And we're going to go for the acting, and we get a little bit of momentum going, and we're on our first film set. Which is... That's a fucking long way into the story, but maybe the only bit's boring. To Kill a King, is that a first feature film role?

35:50Yes? I don't remember. Maybe that was my first. Do you remember what that first, being on a set for the first time, how did that jibe with what you had, you'd gone through all this great theater education, acting education, and then you're on a set and you see all the equipment and you're just doing little bits at a time as opposed to theater. How did that strike you, this film? process i just remember i remember small snippets of do grace scott being very lovely and serious and smoky voiced and i remember julian ryan tut being very sort of funny and witty and just being incredibly on it um and uh i mean laughing quite a lot i don't remember anything that i did in front of camera i did i didn't come away going oh wow yeah okay camera work interesting i'd not not not Because it was a bad experience.

36:48I'm being genuine about my lack of memory of that particular experience. You don't remember being scolded for looking at the camera? Did I? Maybe I have. Maybe you've spoken to the director. No, no, no. That would be my fault. Well, no, so I mean, I guess, well, two things. I suppose mum and dad helped in that regard a little bit, not because they rehearsed me or anything like that, nothing stage mummy, but just I guess I was a little bit aware of what you do and don't do on a set, having been on a couple where they were doing their thing. but also funnily enough I'd been my first ever film job TV job was in Heartbeat which is an ITV staple or was I don't know if that's in England a very nostalgic police drama set on the Yorkshire Dales and was it the Moors sorry Yorkshire God Olivia did this when she was talking to you about Devon and no Devon and Dorset it's Devon by the way that's what we've done see I do listen to your show and I I just remember being very nervous on Heartbeat set.

37:49I do remember that very, very well. And just wondering, am I any good? I don't know what I'm doing. And I know there's something capturing everything I'm doing. I'm like an audience which has this kind of multi-camera perspective. And you can't watch yourself back, but you can. And I really wanted to, but I didn't. But I kind of wanted to know, what the fuck am I doing? Am I doing too much, too little? Because you didn't get any feedback, because you were used to from an audience, from doing theater? Was that it? No? No, none, because it's just a very well-oiled machine, a crew that's been doing it for literally decades.

38:22And yeah, it was just very kind of, oh, well, I hope that's all right. I hope I get to work again. And it was the first job I got. I was still at drama school, so I had to ask permission. I was only at Lambda for one year, but I had to ask permission to do the job. You're not supposed to work if you're still out of drama school. Yeah. I don't know if that's changed. which I hope it has in many ways. Now, you mentioned not being able to see yourself back. I ask actors this. Do you watch yourself act? And if so, have you treated yourself to looking at your older work and do you see a big difference between how you used to act versus today?

39:05And do you applaud yourself for having gotten better, different, how so, smaller, bigger? do you do that? do you watch yourself? no I'm not my own sort of crazy fan and I don't mean that in a sort of it's only vanity that does that that could be an incredibly useful thing to do but I'm not quite that for me it is I'm not a precision tool in that way I kind of no I'm not going to compare myself to what I have done it's always about where I'm at at the moment and that the need to see some reflection of what is going on, is it registering? And also to have that conversation with the director going, no, no, I think I know what you wanted and I was trying to do something else.

39:49Can we go again so I can try and give you something nearer what you want? I've seen now that that doesn't quite fit it. And for the character and the movement and whatever it is, I mean, it's a really hard thing to generalize about because I guess I've been stretched like gum in all sorts of directions as an actor, so I can't really be specific. certain things like I think Power of the Dog I never I don't think I ever watched a playback on that because I just I knew I was in and either it was shit or it was happening and I just had to just be that guy anyway so kind of going around as Phil Burbank going and kind of see the playback you know being an arsehole about it I didn't really want to have that interaction with crew and I wanted to have the arrogance of the character so you strike me as somebody who's who's who's who's skilled enough talented enough and touch with yourself enough to really be able to direct yourself to a certain extent and know whether it's good or bad.

40:43How much do you defer to a director? You mentioned, you know, well, I know what you want, so let me do another one to see if I can do what you want. Will you shape a performance for a director? Will you do what a director wants you to do? What is your opinion on that? Like whose character is it? Yeah, look, I think I've been very, very lucky with the caliber of director. Well, thank you for what you just said, first of all, but I also think it is about how lucky I've been with the color of a director. I form trust with that person and so therefore can filter my own innocence of whether I was shit or good, bad or indifferent and match it to their honesty about it.

41:24The best directors as well often give you a prompt that turns everything around 180 degrees and it's not that they've rejected what you've done or didn't like it, they just want to see something different. That's what excites me, is just trying to jump through a different hoop in a way. Do you remember the first time as you were coming up and after you kind of got your sea legs about you and acting your first gigs, do you remember the first time when you took a real big swing and you're like, oh God, this is something I never imagined I could do and it scares the shit out of me? I think a little bit on every job.

41:59For sure. To one degree or another. But that's a really good question, Sean. You do take great swings and you never clank it. You always hit the ball hard. You have really admirable. You always feel like you're in great hands as an audience member when you're watching. Oh, thank you. Yeah, truly. That's a huge compliment coming from you guys. Thank you. No, it's, whether it's drama or comedy, it's pretty impressive. Thank you. Well, I guess the bottom line is there's no sort of secret source to it. I feel, yeah, I feel excited when I'm taking a big swing. When did I first feel that sense of, oh, I'm not sure I can do this.

42:39Oh, well, I know. Sorry. No, go. Well, I was just going to say, it was one of those reactions where I've got the job. And then I thought, oh, my God, how am I going to do that? Yeah. And that was playing Stephen Hawking in a television drama about his life. Right. Which sort of compared to Eddie's, took it up to, you know, he was walking with a stick and the speech was very impaired. still married to Jane Hawking. So it was one slice of his life, his extraordinary life. And yeah, the thrill, the elation of that, and then going, oh my God, I've just convinced people that I can do this. I don't think I can.

43:13I was immediately terrified after the 10 seconds of elation. Right. So I guess that was the first moment where I thought, well, this is kind of a big swing. Yeah. But what was that first moment where you... So I totally get that and relate to that. But then the moment where you... I think Sean's question was more about, you were talking about choices. I mean, within the performance. He was talking about choices, but when do you feel comfortable? When was that first time you felt, forget Sean's question, when was that first time that you felt comfortable in a performance where you, because you know there's that thing when you're a young actor and you go in and you just, sometimes you're like, I don't want to fuck up, or you're just kind of, you're nervous and blah, blah, blah.

43:57Yes, and you feel tight rather than going, oh hell yeah you hit a groove you felt tight you got it do you remember that job? no I think that was what Sean was saying I oh I'm back in you're back in? no I do think that's what you meant I think I don't know it's so hard it's so hard to be specific about this sort of thing yes fuck I don't know I'm always saying to acting students that I feel you can have you can have you can have something very theatrical in a close up as much as you can have something very myopically focused and close up on the stage i think the magnification magnification of a performance is really to do if something is too big it means often it's wrong it doesn't mean that the scale of it is is what am i trying to say i don't know i some big choices i made where i thought i i'm i'm just doing this and i think it's right i mean patrick melrose would probably be one because i i've partied but that guy was other level and i think the choices i made with him uh were pretty committed and i you know because i was in a very sober state doing this crazy different levels of inebriated um uh dance work um i i kind of just I just really committed to it and it's those things where you go I don't even remember thinking this could be silly I actually remember thinking well it's quite fun maybe I should try Quaaludes and I'm joking I just had a commitment to it that meant it felt like I was on the ride but also thinking I hope this actually works I think we have that a lot don't we when we're having a good time doing something as well going okay this feels great and everyone here is enjoying it.

45:51But is anyone going to watch it or think the same? Right. Yeah, people that aren't obligated to say, hey, great job. Yeah, you're fully reliant on a biased audience and it's a little bit scary. And I think to your point about directors, you can come out of an experience and go, oh, I really do need to trust my voice and my instincts a little bit more sometimes because I think I could have got that better. I have had moments watching things soon after their completion and gone, And, yeah, I should have dug my heels about that. I find it was not the best take or the best choice. Well, but, yeah, but you were not foolish to count on the taste of people like Sam Mendes or Thomas Alfredson.

46:32Like I said, some amazing directors. Yeah. We'll be right back.

46:41And now back to the show. Speaking of Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, What about the fear of acting with those incredible actors around you? Like, was that nerve-wracking? I mean, you were obviously very, very well established by the time you did that film. But still, you can't shake the little guy who was at Lambda, you know. Like, you're sitting there with these titans. Was that frightening? Yeah. I mean, yeah. The first time I met, I mean, Mark, I'd done a little thing with Mark Strong. so i knew him colin was just absurdly wonderful and lovely and nice and goofy and impressionable as well as being ridiculously smart and talented uh and devilishly handsome and all the rest of years and then gary when i first met gary he walked around the corner of it was either working titles office or it was somewhere uninspiring and it wasn't where i was expecting to meet him and And I'd gone in for a costume fizzing, and there he was.

47:46And he just stopped in the corridor, and he looked at me, looked me up and down and went, Oh, hello.

47:56Oh, hello. Hi. And it was just a mess in front of him. Yeah. He was very, very cool. He was very cool. Yeah. And I thought, oh, fucking hell. I felt this horrible ill comfort of, I've got to please this guy, I've got to somehow impress him and make sure he thinks, you know, he literally felt like he was sizing me up going, is this really the guy I want to spend my time with is Peter Gwinnem? I'm not sure, really. You know, there was that very kind of like, oh, good impression. It took a little while and then I realized he was the one who was terrified. He was terrified. Really? I mean, I think I can say this.

48:40Maybe his lawyers will write to me afterwards, I don't know. But, you know, he was frightened. He really thought he wasn't capable of doing it. He couldn't push this iconic Alec Guinness performance away. He was worried that he hadn't found him. And, you know, it became the most amazing friendship out of that. But, you know, yeah, that man was frightened. And to have that vulnerability as an actor and to see that in someone as capable and extraordinary as him, I was like hooray okay we're all the same really we're all the fucking same yeah but I mean like people feel that way about you I think you know your body of work is it's unmatched like I mean Star Trek, Imitation Game I can name them because I've seen them and I love them and Doctor Strange and August Osage County and the fucking Smaug and I mean you're fucking Smaug and The Hobbit I mean that's crazy to me to me you know And recently, you know, the roses, I thought it was just like, that was a total minefield.

49:42You could have blown yourself up, you and Olivia, at any moment in that. It was truly impressive. So people feel that way about you too, I think. Oh, for sure. Or you just want to just, you know, if you get a job with Benedict Cumberbatch. Well, know that I'm shitting it. Know that I don't know what I'm doing on a first day. Know that I doubt myself. you know it's that thing isn't it and I don't know if you guys have it but that first day on set where you go here's a crew they were watching actors and directly you think maybe they'll give me a second day but these guys are just they're going it's Roman right away and of course it isn't because the focus pull is shitting it everyone is doing their job for the first time as a unit putting stuff on film you have to remember that and get over your own we all have to figure out how to wash ourselves right Sean?

50:34that's right we're all yeah but I do I do want to just having done a show there in London in the back too do you do the same for the back? show me how you do show me how you do how you how you wash your own small of your back let me just see that do you need an extender for the loofah because we've got one Scotty? oh wow it's a selfie stick how old are you? you're so you're so nimble flex no but for in theater in theater in London, they have this thing called, and the barbicam, they have this thing called Cherish Notes. And I've never heard of this until I went over there. And I'm like, and I had to ask people in the cast, I'm like, what's Cherish?

51:14Cherish Notes? Well, we meet every single day, every day before the show on stage and just check in with each other. I'm like, can't we do that just backstage in the hall? Or an email. Where the dressing rooms are? Yeah, or just in the E. That's what I said. Can we just do an email or like a fax or something? And no, you have to go on stage. And every day we would go on stage and the stage manager would be like, great, I don't have anything. Does anybody have anything to... Like, no, why are we standing here? I like that. I like that. It keeps everybody accountable and reminds you of where you are.

51:48Yes, I know, but okay. What do you think about that, Benedict? I think it's quite lovely. I think it's quite nice. I think it's quite nice. As long as you're not spending too much time doing that and as long as there's a moderator I think what the dangerous thing is especially in theatre long run like there's going to be those moments where something's going a bit strange in a scene and then the lines of communication can get very very fuzzy unless you go through the appropriate channels which is obviously the assistant director or the director and say I'm having a bit of a problem with the scene I'm not sure what's going on whatever it is if you go in there in the Cherish scenario and go to another actor you know that bit where you're doing that bit that means I can't do my bit the way I want to do it.

52:29That to me is like, oh, here we go. But that's not what cherishing is. Cherishing sounds much nicer than that. But I guess if it becomes... Cherishing is just a positive feedback loop, isn't it? That's what that is. And just looking after each other. But it was nice to see everybody. But if somebody brings up something, is there enough time? Oh, nice. Try to save it now. I mean, everybody in your cast is already, they feel like, fucking, this guy just barely put up with it. No, I loved everybody there. Is there enough time to iron out whatever problem somebody might bring? Well, that's what it was.

53:00That's what it was. I wasn't used to it here, like in the States, where it kind of interrupts what you've created for yourself, your rhythm and your routine in the States. And so I was like, oh, I have to stop that, go up five flights of stairs or down five flights of stairs. Oh, my God. I know, it's terrible. These monsters, this gets worse. Five flights of stairs? I mean, and you can barely, we know that you can't swim because you can barely catch your breath. And then at the top of the stairs, you had to say something nice about it. I went down the stairs like this. It's just a tub of water.

53:36Just get in it. Let me watch you. Dip in. Just dip in it. Is it still hot? Just dip in it. Let me see. Well, I want to talk about, well, Shawnee, do you want to get it in? Sean, would you want to talk more about Doctor Strange or Star Trek? because I'd love to get into 1917 when you're done. Yeah, no, I mean, look. Are you big into fantasy, Sean? Is that your fantasy? Oh, yeah, I'm a huge sci-fi nerd and fantasy. Will's just dying. Is he into fantasy? You should see what he's wearing for bottoms right now. He's in a lizard suit from the waist down. Yeah. Yeah. So Sean loves. I love Star Trek and the movies.

54:23You love Marvel. Yeah, I like Marvel. Scotty loves Marvel. I like Marvel a lot. But I love the Star Trek movies. I wasn't a huge fan of the television series. This guy's a massive Star Trek fan. But seeing you on screen as that character, that iconic character, and I don't know, you have this thing about you where you're so fucking commanding. Yeah, you're magnetic. You're magnetic. You don't have to do a lot, and you're just, you're electric right through the fucking screen. It's incredible. Sean, do you want Scotty to come ask a question? By the way, if Scotty comes on camera and he's covered in French's mustard, I'm going to wrap it up.

55:08Wait, let me see if he's got a question. With Spock ears. Mustard and Spock ears. But also my massive, massive Lord of the Rings Hobbit fan. Like, huge. I've seen him a million times in his movies. And to see, right when you popped on today, as a guest, I'm like, oh my God, that's so, it's such another iconic character, that smog, the dragon, that your voice is synonymous with this legendary thing. And Sean, I will say this, Benedict, before you, I've asked people who've done these kinds of things before. You've done a bunch of these different films, you know, sort of franchises, if you will, but they came out of very well, you know, sort of ideas that have a very well-established fan base.

55:49And there's a sense of, do you ever feel a sense of responsibility to those legions of fans who existed before you kind of stepped into these roles? Yeah, huge. Very big. And then you have to forget about them. You have to. You have to make a commitment to something that can't please everyone. So that's immediately, if you play the aggregate game, you're dead in the water to anything original or alive or daring or that asks questions or is worth actually seeing the 78th or whatever I was version of Sherlock Holmes. You know, you have to just go, no, it's going to be all right. And that, it's not arrogance.

56:24It's just you can't have that much head traffic. You just have to focus on doing the job. And so, yeah, it's a take on something. Yeah, I forgot about Sherlock too, which is like... Fantastic. I loved Sherlock. You were so great in Sherlock. I mean, the list goes on and on. This guy, I mean, are you even 35 yet? More than that, Jason. The resume is stunning, you know? Well, anyway, we're already over time. I've got one last question, though, because it's something to bring you back down to earth because you're so goddamn good at what you do. What is the one thing you'd love to be half as good at as you are as an actor?

57:04Is there something that... Surfing. Surfing. Surfing. Oh, wow. Really? Or speaking any foreign language. So you try, but you're not great? Exactly that. I started in my 40s, and I'm near the end of my 40s, and I'm still feeling like I'm starting. And I had a shoulder operation last year, so I haven't done it at all for about, actually no, this year, for about six months. But I love it. I love it. Where did you start it? Weirdly enough, in New Zealand, when we were doing Power of the Dog, we got shut down because of lockdown. And we had the decision to make to stay, which by then, because I had two octogenarian parents, one of whom is a severe asthmatic, staying with us, as it would happen.

57:40my mum and dad and our three very young children at that point Sophie and a nanny and we just thought okay we're going to stay and it was a bit scary to begin with but utterly magical and extraordinary one of the best places on earth to be as it turned out and there was a little left hand break in Tiawunga in Hawke's Bay big shout out to Tiawungans anyway the point is it was where I learned and And I'm goofy, actually, so left break's not as good as a right. But I quite like... No, that's wrong. It must have been a right break. Yeah, because I'm right foot forward. So you're supposed to be facing the wave rather than facing the shore.

58:21So I learned really on the wrong wave. But loved it. Every now and again, you get a left. And I just... I really fell in love with it. I fell in love with the view of the coastline. I fell in love with that connection to the ocean. that sense of how present you are and the community as well this extraordinary group of people where all is kind of forgiven as long as you don't take their wave and you know the drug dealer would be there and the head of the local police force would be there it's just all of human life was around you right and i i can't i can't explain to anyone hasn't surfed what that feeling is of nature giving you a ride from somewhere out in the ocean towards the shoreline it's just It's magic when it works.

59:05And when you get out of the ocean, how do you clean yourself? I'm kidding. What happened to your shoulder, by the way? You got shoulder surgery? I was so boring. I was so 49. Yeah, I'm 50 this year, but I was 49 when it happened. Well, it's a long time of ill use and done a lot of surfing in very bad conditions and overdoing it. I'm probably lifting stuff in the wrong way over the years. not a particular, but I basically had a torn rotator cuff and then also a frozen shoulder on top of it, which I only found out when I went into it to do the repair to the rotator, which was a complete tear. And I'd lived with chronic pain for about a year and a half, not really realizing that you didn't have to.

59:49And I kept on doing physio and being told, no, it'll heal, just give it time. I'm a patient guy and I'm doing everything you're telling me to do and I'm still having sleepless nights, getting up like three, four times in the night because I'd rolled over onto it and it suddenly would just be skinny. But it's better now? Yeah, it's great. It's great. I love it. Oh, look at that. Look at that. Well, before we let you go, we need to know about the thing with feathers because this is a new project, you guys. You're going to have Jesus. If I hadn't said anything about that film, I'm so sorry. No, it's my fault.

1:00:21It's not How to Clean Yourself. It's very much not the thing with feathers. I mean, I suppose you could use that to clean yourself. It's a prequel to How to Clean Yourself. Yeah. So this, I've only seen the trailer, which looks magical to say the least. What is it called? The Thing with Feathers. Okay. I'm not going to ask you to describe because I think that's always frustrating. But it seems like you're dealing with loss, but you're dealing with it in a very magical, fantastical way. and it looks like the filmmaking is exquisite and your performance looks mind-blowing again. Was it something that you loved doing?

1:01:06Very much. And it's something that I'm very proud of. I produced it as well, so... Oh, wow. It's one of those projects that wouldn't really have got off the ground. Well, it would have probably got off the ground, but it took a lot of effort and it was 10 years in the making. we only came on board in the last sort of year and a bit of it we being the production company Sonny March, Adam Acklin, Leah Clark and myself and it was an approach for me to act as this dad this man who, because you were so kind in telling me it could be a real bore to describe it I'm going to describe it very very briefly but it's a man who suffers a very sudden bereavement and he loses his wife and has to bring up his two children as a widow and it's about their first year as a family.

1:01:53And it's based on an amazing, amazing novella called Grief is the Thing with Feathers. Oh, wow. Which is a misquote of the famous Emily Dickinson line, Love is the Thing with Feathers, by Max Porter, who is just a titan of a heroic human being in actual physical stature and in talent. He's a wonderfully kind, brilliant mind and he's created a space where male grief is examined in the most unimaginably crazy and imaginative way. It's about dealing with it as an acceptance of something you live with. And it comes alive. It comes alive in the form of the dad's work, which from the book, maybe the film, but certainly the book more or less is hinted at as being a memory of the boys of what that time was like.

1:02:39You kind of learn that as the story unfolds. But it's a crow. It's a crow that comes fully to life as this horrific entity that's both Mary Poppins to the children, an amanuensis, a hero, an absolute nightmare, a ferocious noise in the head, a tormentor, and an ally against despair. And it's a huge homage to the literature. It was born out of the poetry of Ted Hughes. He was an academic at the book in our version. He's an illustrator. And his illustration comes to life, basically, and lives, torments, and is accepted by this family grieving the loss of their mother and wife. Wow, wow, wow, wow.

1:03:20I can't wait to check it out. That's a punchy hour and 40 minutes. And it's, yeah, I don't know. What I was taken with the trailer is, you all can see, it seems to be done in such a sophisticated, cinematic, tasteful way. Like, you know, that can go wrong real quick. If you go, oh, so there's going to be a crow that he's got to talk to. It's like, how does that look? and how is it framed? What's the, you know, it just looks so tasteful and special. So congratulations. Well, thank you. I mean, that's mainly down to Dylan Southern who adapted the book and directed it. He's a pop documentarian by trade, as in that's what he's done up until this point.

1:04:05This is his first fictional narrative drama. Good for you for getting behind him. Well, yeah. I mean, that's one of the things we do at Sunny March. We want to promote and platform voices that are coming out of the stocks, who are the first. and very often female-led talent, but also, in this case, someone who hasn't originated their work in this medium. And he's spectacular. He's a real cineast. He's a real cultural nerd. So the references are thick and fast. There's Kubrick, there's Spielberg, there's Hitchcock. There's all sorts. There's a bit of Jane Campion in there, weirdly. But it is just, it's a rich tapestry of imagination and minds coming undone, reflected through a cinematic idea of how that would happen in the culture of these people.

1:04:47So it's the father's imagination and that North London 40-something maleness, which I know very well. They're set in South London, but big deal, not much difference. And it was a crazy ride to go on, very short shoots after 10 years of creating it and getting it made. So I'm really proud. Benedict, before we let you go, I have to ask you about something that I think that you have been attached to to either be in or to produce or to do something with for a long time and it's one of my favorite books of all time. It's an absolute mind blower for those who haven't written which is you know what I'm about to say.

1:05:30Rogue Mail. Rogue Mail. Oh. Dude. It's a winner, isn't it? It's so cool. It is such a game changer of a novel, Rogue Mail, written in 1939. Yeah. it's it's the original fugitive novel it's the original and you know a huge inspiration for Ian Fleming for Bond yeah and it's and it's so prescient to what's going on in our times not to allude to that too much it's so prescient exactly and it really is you know when we first sat down trying to talk about this we thought is this a bit of a game it's not about AI but it is is this a bit of a kind of guy's film and then the longer we were exploring the themes of it and the motivation behind the guy's actions and the outcome and how he's turned on by his own side as well as obviously the side he's tried to take down it's fascinating how it plays into a political spectrum of what's going on in the world now, I don't want to say too much about it because people should read the book and yeah we will make it you will make it?

1:06:27definitely, yeah we haven't got a filming date yet but it's something we're trying to slate for next year although there are other huge commitments involving cloaks floating about so yeah I'll be the first guy to watch it. I'll be the first one there. I can't wait. Me too. Yeah, I know. It's nice to get going on that. That's good. Well, we owe you 12 minutes now back into your life. I think I owe you a lot more because I was very late on. So you, I mean, nothing. I'm very glad to be. Such a pleasure. Honor to have you on the show, Benedict. Thank you. Likewise, guys. Really cool to meet you. Really great to meet you all too.

1:07:04Thank you. I hope to bump into you again soon. Yes. One day. Continue success, Benedict. You too, you too. Will, sorry, I've got to say, Will, before we sign off, you were phenomenal in this thing on. Oh, isn't it? I asked Bradley, because I've missed, to give me a link, because searchlight wouldn't. Oh, it's not really ready for a link yet. And I went, fucking Bradley, I missed a screening of it in London. I can see it. You are so good. It's so tender and real. And that camera is so, I wanted to ask you about how you deal with, it's so close to you all the time when you're up at that mic. Like, was he shooting on a long lens at any point?

1:07:36or was it really on stage with you getting in your eyeline? I mean, it was, and yet you're utterly in it all the time. And it's so moving. It was all in a 40. The whole thing was shot, everything was shot in a 40, the entire film, on one single lens. And he was, yeah, Bradley was right there, you know, right up next to me. It was very intense. But thank you very much. So impressive. It's brilliant work. Great work. It's brilliant work. Anyway, I just wanted to throw that in. It's really good. All right, well, you enjoy the rest of your night. Thank you. And thank you again for doing this, pal.

1:08:06Bye-bye, Benedict Cumberbatch. Thank you, Jason. Thank you, Will. Thank you, Sean. See you, bud. Take care. Bye-bye. There he goes, Benedict Cumberbatch. I didn't get to so much. That went by very, very long. How could you? He's got a million credits. I know, right? Yeah, that was really cool. I mean, are you guys a Lord of the Rings Hobbit fan? No? I've not seen those. I enjoyed it. Yeah, I loved those movies. So he played, he was a... He was the voice. Motion capture questions I have here, but I didn't get to them. Yeah, but you could tell. Because he was just a voice of a dragon, I hear from your question.

1:08:42That is correct.

1:08:47But also you can tell just from talking to him, this sounds really corny to say, but you could tell he's such a massive team player. You could say, you can tell he's not, you know, he's a very giving person. He's very loving down to earth. You could smell his team spirit. Yeah, yeah, nice. smells like teen spirit. Oh, I see. Yeah. No, he's... It's pretty cool how he dances between the comedy, the drama, the big Marvel stuff, and also like things like this thing coming out. I know. Like intense, like little sort of really cool niche films, and then these massive box office hits. Are you with them?

1:09:33Are you with them? Well, you can just jump in with them. The listener, Will's building on the clean yourself. Jump in there with them. And then you guys together. You can clean each other. More easily reach the back. Just do that. Start there. Is it a button or a zipper I asked for? Oh, my God.

1:10:00Hey, Will, was I with you on a plane when we ran into Benedict Cumberbatch? Oh, really? Was I with you on a plane or was it somebody else? Anyway, I ran into him on a plane once and he was so fucking funny. I didn't run into him on a plane, I don't think, but I ran into him once. I didn't run into him. I didn't say hi to him. He was at the Greenwich and he was trying to repack a suitcase in the lobby. Oh, no. And I was like, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to leave him alone. You know, that's a way, I hate looking inside somebody's suitcase. You ever notice that? Why? I feel like there's stuff in there I don't need to see, don't want to see, especially not the suitcase on the way to the destination.

1:10:37It's the one coming back where all the dirty underwear is up on top and nothing's folded. And it's all just like, you just know if you got your face in there, it would be insane. You're so crazy about just regular life. You're so... By the way, my biggest luxury, the thing, the one big luxury that I love, that I really love treating myself to is doing hotel laundry. Hotel laundry. Oh, you just throw it, you give it, you put it in the bag and let them take it. People are like, oh, I'm not going to do a hotel laundry. It's going to be$4 for my socks. I'm like, yeah, you know what? I'm going to treat myself.

1:11:11So you do that laundry before you leave the hotel so that when you get home and you unpack, it's already done? Yeah, depending. I mean, the last few, there might be a few items, but I'm not going to like just deprive myself. You know what I mean? So you don't go home with all your dirty laundry like the rest of us plebs and throw it in the machine? I often do, the bulk of my stuff will be clean, yeah. Yeah. I'm not jackassing a bunch of dirty clothes across the globe. Yeah, why would you? Yeah, when you got all that money to burn, right? Yeah. Like an extra 12 bucks. Oh, is it? For a t-shirt? Nice.

1:11:43But listen, all those... Here he comes. Uh-oh. Did I meet Benedict Cumberbatch on an airplane, like a jet plane? Or was it a biplane? I'm going to be a biplane, but we'll allow it. Bye. Bye. Smart.

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