"Bill Simmons"

28:05Shanny is their man. He's the best. He's the best, dude. I actually just played golf with Shanny and Mike from Mike and the Mad Dog a couple weeks ago. Yeah. Will, did you ever get tempted by the Kings just, like, doing a full hockey divorce and just second wife with the Kings? I couldn't. I mean, I go to Kings games when I'm here, and I'll, you know, sometimes with the kids and stuff just for fun, and I'm just such a huge hockey fan. But the Leafs are just my team. They're just it for me, and they always have been. Isn't that hilarious that people will divorce human beings but not their teams?

28:37Like if Will was like, I'm now a Kings fan, he'd be like, that's horrible. You broke up with the Maple Leafs? That's the worst thing I've ever heard. If it's a relationship, it's fine. You know what's funny? So when I was with Shani a couple weeks ago, he goes, he's like, I think he heard on the podcast or somewhere, he goes, so I heard you say, because I've become like in the last 10, 12 years, is like a massive soccer fan and I'm a big Liverpool supporter through my friend and I just... Bill loves Tottenham. Get him. Are you a Tottenham fan? It lasted three years until my kids started playing sports every Saturday.

29:11Right, so it's tough. It's tough. Yeah, it was too hard. But it's... Yeah, so I'm up at 4.30 in the morning watching games and stuff and I'll watch everything. I'll watch Bundesliga, I'll watch La Liga, I'll watch anything, Champions League, forget it. You're getting me so hot. So I start watching it. It's so erotic. 4.30, huh? I guess I had sort of said offhand that watching Liverpool and watching soccer has become almost, has almost taken over hockey. And he looked at me with such disappointment. He's like, is that true? Is that true that you love? And I go, first of all, relax. Yeah. Settle down.

29:43Settle down. But I do, it has helped to kind of mitigate my frustration or disappointment by watching that because I'm so invested in the Leafs. I live and die by, you know, So I've gotten into, and football has been a really great, soccer has become a really great sort of antidote to that. And so I can have some, I can have some highs. Better attention span sport too. It's two hours. There's a half time. It's perfect. It just flies through and you're done. It's perfect. And once I got into it and understanding who the people were and what the stories were behind it, it's super interesting. And Champions League is interesting.

30:19And I'll watch virtually any sport, which makes me, like I ended up watching, you know, the Ashes, the cricket. I'll watch 2020 cricket, T20. Like, I'll watch. Cornhole? Is there anything? I won't watch that. It's not a sport. Will you watch? Is there any sport you won't watch? Cornhole's not a sport? No. Okay, it's a game. It's not. It's a game. But is there any? So is golf a sport then? Game. Game. Baseball's a game, not a sport. Yeah, I guess golf's a game. But the top guys are athletes. True. Have you seen the bodies on the Red Sox? No, no, no, no. I'm saying golf. I'm saying golf. Is there a sport you won't watch?

30:57Sorry, that was my big long lead. Is there a sport I won't watch? Yeah, that you don't enjoy watching. I don't get auto racing and, like, there's this F1 resurgence and I gave it a kick drive. I don't get driving around in a circle. It's just cars just going in laps. I don't either. Well, the road courses I get, but circles, no. Bill, come to Formula One with me. You'll get it. Come with me to Formula One. Listen, you're the 100th person. It's like, no, no, you'll get it. Jason got me into it It's starting to feel like Scientology a little bit You don't understand You've got to meet Miscavige You'll get it when you meet him Just have brunch with him It's like I don't know It doesn't take I don't know if I love F1s That's hysterical So wait So this is a perfect opportunity And this is going to be a long question Just hang in there Because I was like Should I ask it Should I not ask it I'm going to ask it Guys I'm going to go make a sandwich I'm going to pee I've heard your long question Sean I'm excited They're not Okay so it's to the three of you you guys.

31:53Uh-oh. So, and this is a perfect opportunity to ask this. And I wasn't going to ask him, but here we go. It's already too long. No, no, hang on. All the qualifiers. No, so I... He's a big qualifier guy with his questions. So what is the psychology behind loving sports so much? Okay, so wait. So like, you know, in movies, theater, TV, whatever it is, you're watching a story, you're emotionally invested, you're watching the beginning, middle, and end of something. In sports, I get it. There is a beginning and end because who's going to win and then they win okay sure but what is the psychology about loving it so like what are you rooting for other than a team that you don't have any personal connection to yeah i'll go first yeah for for for me it's just simply and and it's and it's heightened by the olympics because it's it's it's only every four years it's the televised live moment of somebody putting everything they've got on the line and it's a binary result of success or failure and I get to see this person reach for excellence and let's see what the best they can do is going to yield yeah and that's a really exciting thing to me and it's not and it's unwritten yeah uh I get that I I would say for me it's it's not dissimilar um and I as I explained my sort of my appreciation of soccer was came from understanding the stories and the people behind it yeah you told me that will so once I can get into like this guy came over here and for For me, it's not necessarily binary because there is victory sometimes in people in failure when they don't actually get it, but they try really hard.

33:30I like that part of it. Yeah, but the stories, like you told me that a long time ago. You're like, Sean, just try to watch the stories of the people. So I'm watching. I'm like, well, this is a Dateline episode. Like I could just watch, you know, I could learn about these people without watching them kick a ball around for two hours. Sure. You know what I'm saying? But then there is a moment. there is an actual venue for them to go and try to do that. You see the story behind it. So, like, for instance, if you watch, like, one of these great soccer documentaries, and you see the importance of the team to the town and to the fans.

34:02And then you see these players and these guys and their town and what it means, and then the players who come in and they're trying to do it, and they're trying to do it not just to win, but they understand the cultural impact that they have. They feel it. They know it. And watching them go through that is super compelling to me. Yeah, I get it. But on the other side, I went to a daughter's game with Jason a couple years ago. And we're sitting there. And I was like, I kind of get it. I get like the atmosphere. It's like watching this old house on a Sunday. You're like, oh, this is very relaxing.

34:30This has gone so well. You know what I mean? I get it. You're almost there. You know what I mean? Bill, get him back on track. But Sean, in the same way that like, for me, I can't go, I can't get into musicals. Right. Because it's why people are singing. And I'm like, what? But if you learned about them, if you kind of understood kind of what goes into it all, then you perhaps. Well, I do in the sense that it is sort of adjacent to what I do as a profession. And yet I still can't. It's just not for me. It doesn't speak to me. And for whatever reason, sports does in that way. And Bill, you probably have a much more concise answer.

35:07I just think it's almost like a DNA thing. It's got to hit you before like age six. Yeah. And I see it with a couple of my friend's kids. I had, like, my friend Nathan's kid just, like, I could tell when he was six. I was like, oh, he's going to be one of those guys. He's going to be really into it. And now he is. He's, like, 14, and he's one of those guys. Yeah, like, I was, obviously, I'm from Chicago when the Cubs won, finally, what, four, five, six years ago. I don't remember when that was. Yeah. I was crying because I was like, oh, my God. They haven't won in, like, 200 years. I'm from Chicago.

35:36Like, that was incredible. Sean, that's it. But, and I'm a huge football fan. I just need a reason to watch. Like, I need a bet or something. When I was growing up in Boston in the 70s, but the cold weather cities, you know, it's pretty miserable for like four or five months. And Canada has this too. I know Will knows. But, you know, the sports teams take this outsized importance of just like the kind of however the teams are doing kind of sets the mood of the city. Yeah. And, you know, when Bird showed up for the Celtics in 1979 and we realized like pretty quickly, like this is one of the most special athletes in any sport and we get to go on this ride with him for the next 10, 12 years.

36:19That's when it goes to a whole other level. Like Cleveland had that with LeBron and the Lakers said that with Kobe. And, you know, you just kind of hit the lottery when it happens. And that's going to make everyone care more. Bill, you know, I remember distinctly thinking this at the time. And, Sean, again, this kind of goes to the way it makes you feel. I remember when Tiger starting in sort of 99 through 2008 really up to the 2008 US Open in that time he did something that was so spectacular and I remember thinking there were people who didn't like him I remember thinking we have I hope we all appreciate how incredible it is what this guy is doing it was so that we're alive during it and we get to watch it in real time that is cool I thought that way about Jason with Ozark it was the same thing thank you for bringing the background I can't believe I'm a member of this species.

37:08I know we get to it with the slow blink. Take your time, Bill. With the slow blink that McConaughey pointed out. Do you know how McConaughey pointed out that Jason's got the best slow blink of all? He's a slow blink hall of favor? To be honest, I'm not sure what that compliment was, but I took it. I loved it. Dude, I have thought about it every moment since I said that. I looked at myself in the mirror yesterday, and I was like, I tried to do a slow blink, and I realized, wait, I can't see what I'm doing. So I'm not sure what he's talking about. That was good. Hey, Bill, I don't mean to back you into anything controversial, so feel free to pull the ripcord if it is.

37:42But online sports betting that is now sort of really all over the place on television and online and whatnot, how do you feel about – are you worried about your average sports viewer, especially because, like, when you start talking about the six-year-old, you know, like pretty soon he's going to have a phone and he's going to have like a, you know, an allowance every week. And he's going to be able to make little bets prompted by the on-air announcers saying, hey, listen, if you're thinking this might be a field goal versus a touchdown, you can bet right now. Like people are going to get hurt.

38:19And I'm wondering how you feel about that being in the space right now. Well, the way the apps are set up, it's impossible for any non-adult to just start a gambling account. Like my son is a sophomore in high school. He can't like gamble because he's not allowed. So they have a lot of checks and balances with that. I just think this is where it's been going really for the last 20 years. Like I remember when I, my first couple of years at ESPN.com, gambling was like a big part of the way my friends and I talked about sports and they wouldn't even let me write a gambling column the first year in 2001 with the spreads.

38:56But the on-air announcer is sort of encouraging that. Do you feel like that's on the same side of the line or not? I don't know if they're encouraging it as much as it's part of the dialogue of sports now. Well, but they're promoting it, and I think the network is a participant in that action. I could be wrong with that. Well, ESPN just did a deal, ESPN Bet, they're calling it. I mean, I think they all kind of see where it's going. Are they doing that with Penn? Yeah, they... But, Bill, again, correct me if I'm wrong. You know, the NFL has all sports, but certainly the NFL always posted the odds in the newspaper for as long as it was always about that.

39:39Right. Always. From day one. It's just more overt than it used to be. I mean, like teams will get fined if they didn't report injuries. Why are they getting fined? Because it affected the spreads. Then how does it, can you reconcile it with the position that baseball took against Pete Rose gambling on baseball? and now they're actually a partner of gambling with baseball? No, but you can't because the Pete Rose thing, he was betting on his own team. Right. And he was managing that team. So he could affect the outcome. Yeah, and they've been cracking down on, they don't want the players to gamble on anything, right?

40:14And there's been, especially in football, there's been a few guys that got nailed. But if you go back to the history of the sports, like there's been gambling scandals in every era. But there was a ref in basketball that just did it, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. But college basketball in the 50s, there was that huge scandal, right, of point shaving way back when. Yeah, and it almost killed college basketball. What's weird is there's so much attention on it now, it would be really hard to fix anything. Anytime something's out of whack, all the casinos, everybody kind of knows, so they get caught immediately.

40:47Yeah, it's part of the dialogue. I just think it's a generational thing. I think for our kids' generation, they're just more used to hearing the announcers talk about it in the dialogue of these guys were favored by nine. Al Michaels used to be on Sunday Night NBC. The great Al Michaels. And he would always be discreetly kind of mentioning the line without mentioning it. Yeah, yeah. Especially that was a big field goal for some people out there. Yeah, exactly. Someone missed an extra point inside the last two minutes. So now it's just kind of out in the open. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm good with it. We'll be right back.

41:26and back to the show. How are you as a sports gambler? Do you do it? Oh, my God. Are you any? You must be good. I go up and down. I know you're trying to jinx me right now, but, yeah, we, I have a long history. I started gambling in 1990 because the Patriots went 1-15, and there were only two games on, and we were in college, and, you know, the Patriots were terrible, and it was like, this is the worst football season I've ever had. And you've made a million betting against them. Yeah, a buddy on my house was like, I have a book here. We're like, what? And we start betting on football, and all of a sudden I had all these favorite teams.

42:06It wasn't just the Patriots. Yeah. So, yeah, it's been a long journey. I've written about it a lot, and I've had a lot of fun with it. But now there's so much analytics and analysis that go with it. Like Sal and I, Jimmy's cousin Sal, we do a Sunday night podcast on my pod, and we did this over-under with win totals. last year and we did great like i went like on the win totals whether a team was going to go over or under i went 24 7 and 1 it was the best i've ever done and i was more excited about that than anything over or under a certain number of wins for the year yeah so they'll say like the the giants are seven and a half you know like you're thinking to go over under and we just like and we were like so proud of ourselves that we did well but there's been other years where we're like oh my god we're getting annihilated does god hate us does that translate to fantasy sports prowess?

42:53Are you really good at that? I was wanting to ask you if you're into fantasy sports. Oh, I was like, I was in the first wave. I was in basketball leagues in the 80s, baseball leagues in 1982, football since 1990. What's the name of the, wasn't there a baseball group early on in ESPN? Yeah, I wasn't in that, but yeah, it started in the early 80s. There's a bunch of people that have tried to claim they started the first fantasy league and it's... No, but this was These guys are like the best, supposedly. I forget what it was called. Well, I'm in the Kimmel League where we vote everybody out, and Sal has the hammer this year, and I think he's going to vote me out for comedy's sake.

43:34Why, because the trash talk's not good enough? Well, we show up, and there's 11 owners, and only 10 stay. And at the beginning of the draft, the guy who won the draft the year before votes out one of the 10, one of the other 10. And you just have to get up and get the F out. We had, John Hamm was in it and he showed up late because he was filming Mad Men. And we waited, waited, waited. He showed up like a half hour late. Comes in, sorry guys, sorry. Gets a beer, sits down. And then he got voted out. And he just like drank the beer. That's it. Oh my God. I'm the commissioner of my baseball league.

44:09It's the worst league in the world because I don't think, there's not one trash talk at all through the entire season. Yeah. The 90s were so much more fun. Yeah. The 90s people get mad. the draft was like really vicious and everybody's nicer. I have a question about this stuff. So what about... You want to focus on the fantasy part of it? Go ahead. Yeah, exactly. No. Why? And I think Jason will, I think I may have asked this on another episode of our podcast, so we can cut it if so. But if all this... On Smartless? Available wherever you get podcasts? Yes, on Smartless. But you can get it early on Wondry without asking.

44:47Didn't realize that. I read about all of these crazy, unbelievably massive amounts of money thrown around all these players for all these teams, right? Yeah. These contracts that these guys are doing. So if these teams and owners and all these people have literally billions of dollars, it seems like, why wouldn't they just go buy every single top player and create and have that one team if they have all this money? Bill, you'll be more concise. No, I mean, but there's an actual. The Dodgers kind of tried that. It's working. Well, because there are rules. There are rules as to how much you can actually spend in most sports.

45:25Well, there's rules. Over a certain number, you'd have to start paying a punitive tax on that. But how would you explain what's going on with the Yankees and the Red Sox this year with all their payroll? Aren't they the last two in the American League East? The Yankees thing is great. Aren't the Red Sox cozied up next to them in the standings? The Yankees aren't winning the title, but what's happened to the Yankees is kind of like my World Series this year. Their fans are so upset. They have George Steinbrenner's loser, Son Howell, runs the team. And it's like the classic, like the son who had the only reason he is in charge of anything is just because he was related to his dad, which is always the best and funniest scenario in sports.

46:06By the way, it's the funniest thing in any arena. It's so good. I love the idea. It's like Giuliani's son running his defense. But, like, think if Hollywood ran this where, like, Bob Iger's retiring. His son is now the president of Disney. Like, it would never happen. But in sports, they just hand the teams off. I love kids who are born on third and score on a wild pitch. I love that storyline. It's so great. Like, they just have zero talent, and yet they're just because their dad had a ton of dough. Yeah. Right. Bill, you know, when we were talking about sports, I want to get back to Sean's question, Bill, and hear what you think about this, about why can't the owners just go?

46:42We were talking about the Red Sox and Yankees, and they do try to do that, and you're jumping with glee at how much the Yankees have spent and to no success. Really what's happening, again, I don't want to bring everything back to soccer, but if you look what's happened in the last year in soccer, the Saudis, in fact, the Saudi Sovereign Wealth Fund, which took control of the top four or five clubs, has now provided enough funds for them to go and poach from all the major European leagues all these top stars and pay them these salaries, Sean? Neymar just signed a$300 million deal for two years.

47:16I know, I read about all of that. Plus they paid a release clause of 80 million euros to PSG. They apparently offered Mbappe 750 million euros to play for one year. Ronaldo's getting 400 a year. I mean, they're doing that exact thing that you're talking about. And Bill, what do you think that something like that does to the balance of world sport? well soccer it's just basically a free market and they're all maniacs i think the nba had a little bit of this issue where they had they had this luxury tax and it was punitive but then you had a team like the warriors that were saying well screw it you know we're we're in san francisco we make a shitload of money we want to win the title every year and they had like a three with the tax they paid like 350 million for last year's team so in the new collective bargaining agreement they changed it so that all right if you go over this number not only is there attacks but now you're going to have your issues with your draft picks issues with how you fill out your roster you're not going to be able to do trades as easily oh really and they really made it harder and now but what's funny is there's always some new owner it's always a rich guy they come in like obviously a rich guy they own the team but like some newer wave rich guy so the guy about phoenix this guy matt ishby who i actually kind of like he's a fun character yeah i kind of like him too but he came in and he's just like they all want to zag right they're like everybody's going this way i'm gonna zag and he's like we don't care about draft picks we're gonna pay for kevin durant we they traded for bradley bill we're gonna have this crazy payroll and like everybody else is afraid of the luxury tax i'm not afraid and those are always my favorite owners Like Brooklyn got bought by this Russian guy, Prokhorov, in the early 2010s.

49:05And he's like, I'm going to spend and just made all these crazy moves. And then two years later, he's like, eh, I don't want to do this anymore. And then just stopped spending money. And the Celtics had all their draft picks. So the whims of these guys that they, you know, they see these teams as like these toys and these things to play with. But meanwhile, all these, you know, hundreds of thousands of fans are attached to the team. And these guys can just run roughshod, which is what's happened with the Yankees now. It's owned by the dead owner's son, and he just won't fire anybody, and they're in chaos.

49:37Well, it occurs to me that you can almost draw a parallel between that and maybe any business, but certainly our business, that you have these big sort of rich guys who are either rich themselves or control these big corporations. They're driven by, you know, whatever, stock price, et cetera. and there's no actual reverence for the thing itself, right? So culturally, they don't really care about what impacts. So they come and they go, I'm going to buy this team. Well, hey, look, it's really bad for basketball or it's really bad for soccer. And they're like, I don't give a shit. I'm going to be dead in 15 years.

50:09I just want to win a couple of championships. I don't give a shit. And that's happening in entertainment. These guys came in, these people came in, they run it and they're like potentially destroying it. And they're like, I don't give a shit. I just want to strip it down and sell the pieces off and I don't give a fuck if it, you know, fucks culturally with this thing. Is this why Dr. Pimple Popper is on the lead cover of Max right now instead of Succession or Curb Enthusiasm? That's exactly why. Hey, Bill, do you think that the fan base, to your point about how all these hundreds of thousands of people are associated and attached to each team in the fan base, does the fan base really have any leverage?

50:45Like if an owner is just in a tailspin, can they strike effectively and say, We just saw it with the Washington football fans. They had this owner who was Daniel Snyder, who was like the worst owner. He was like the championship belt holder every year. And he sucked the life out of the franchise and the city to the point that, you know, they would have a home game and they'd have more fans of the other team. And everybody was like, I'm out until this guy's gone. And it really had no impact on him. It's the TV rights that really have the leverage. And financially, they still sold for how many billion?

51:15Right. Well, what happened was the sponsors started fleeing and it became, and then he had a couple other things. But that's because of his behavior personally as opposed to team performance. But that's the thing. These guys, like the Phoenix Suns owner, had this whole toxic environment and they made him sell. And then he sells and he sells for like a record price, you know. Or Sterling made a bunch of money at the Clippers, right? Right. Sterling's the worst guy probably who's ever owned a team. And, you know, he cashed out and made more money than anybody ever made. By the way, my feeling on that, I've thought about it since that sale and everything that went down.

51:51And then his family was trying to block him from selling it to Steve Ballmer back in the day, blah, blah, blah. And then they were claiming that he was sort of unfit to make the deal, Sterling himself and all this stuff. And I think it was all by design to drive the price up. Now, I'm a cynic, but I do think that that was all by design because the more that the family was fighting and they were saying the price just kept going up just to grab it. Oh, no question. I've had Clippers season tickets for 20 years because I got them to go see the other teams. but I got to know a lot of the people in my section and Sterling would show up and he'd be dressed in all black and he'd sit courtside and he was like the fucking Grim Reaper and he would go and this team had such a malaise and then you have the Lakers on the other side that are like one of the jewels of the league and it was like a fascinating sociology experiment to watch this fan base basically their hope was either he's going to sell or they're going to stumble into some draft pick that will get them LeBron.

52:49But if neither of those things happen, I'm here to see the other teams. And that was kind of the vibe. So, Bill, not to embarrass you, but you've done very, very well financially with all of your efforts. Well, not like you. Junior, junior. And we're trying. But you're crushing it. My question is, because you mentioned courtside seats. Yeah. What's the thing that you could never afford that once you started really doing well you treated yourself to. It doesn't have to be sports-based. I can guess one thing because you're living in Wayne Manor, it looks like. Yeah, it looks like a high way. But because you seem like you've really kept very close contact with your sort of simpler self, and I don't mean that as a pejorative, but you're a very normal guy, which is great.

53:40Oh, thanks, Jason. So is it, how are you, is it comfortable? Well, you know, you're not, You're a mogul, but you don't seem like one. You're wearing a T-shirt, and you're just talking with us idiots. And so how are you able to match all of your dreams? Yeah, all your dreams with trying to stay grounded. I've never, well, just on the courtside seats thing. Yeah. They're actually like, it's like a pretty bad seat. Have you ever? But they're expensive. Like, if you're at a basketball game, I'm always, like, amazed people spend that amount of money. I think it's really just to be kind of seen on the court.

54:20Right. But you're too close. Like, the seats I have for the Clipper games were, like, four or five rows up. Same for my dad's Celtic tickets that he's had for, like, 52 years. And there's perspective, and you can actually watch it. The courtside thing... Like, sit in front row in a movie theater. I always say that about hockey games. People are like, I'm going to write that on the glass. I'm like, great, you got the worst seats in the house. You can't see shit. You want to be... hockey, you want to be 10, 15 rows up. See the space. Right. Between the red lines. Or right behind the goalie is cool because we had those king seats for a couple years.

54:50Oh, that's cool too. That's where you're like, how is every goalie not just completely traumatized and in a mental hospital? When you see what happens to them, their whole lives, it's just like they're getting things fired at them. There's all this commotion in front of them. They're falling. They're jumping up. They're falling. And you're like, how is any of these guys? They are. Healthy. That in a straitjacket. Bill, what do you do when you're not watching sports? What's your thing? This is sort of a Jason Bateman question. What's the thing? What's your guilty pleasure that you watch or you do or you read or something that's outside of the realm of what you do professionally?

55:26Well, oh, outside? Because it's a lot of sports movies and TV. And I host this Rewatchables podcast where we do a podcast about a movie every week that people really like. And it's fun to try to figure out, is that rewatchables worthy or not? And then if it is, I'll watch it twice. But is there something else that you do that's outside of that or no? You mean just like my personal stuff? Yeah, your personal stuff. Yeah, I have two kids. A lot of kids sports. Both of my kids are athletes. What do they play? My son is football and lacrosse. My daughter is playing soccer actually in college right now.

55:59Wow. So I had a lot of, there's a lot of sports parent stuff that kind of took over. And then, you know, still playing tennis and still a lot of like stuff. with the friends. You know, you find your little friend group as you get older and you do the dinners and then somebody gets mad at somebody and you talk about it the next day. It's great. Yeah. Well, we can't believe we had you longer than an hour. We could talk to you forever. It's ridiculous. You're the man. Yeah, you really are. Thank you for doing this again. Thanks, guys. I can't wait for you guys not to run this. Yeah, we promise to air this one.

56:30Promise. And go Sox until the World Series and then we'll let the Dodgers go by. Go Sox. We won't be in the World Series, don't we? I'll give you the Red Sox. Celtics you can have. Yeah. And by the way, guys, it was cool to be on the test show and then watch how the podcast blossomed. I remember telling Bateman, I was like, do you guys want to do this at Spotify? I was like, no, I think we're going to hold on to this. We kind of like just kind of being in control of it. And it turned out to be very smart. Well, we'll see. But we're certainly having a lot of fun. We're in the bet on ourselves club.

57:07I know, it's true. Thank you for making the bed that we're enjoying resting in. Yeah. Good to see everybody. Thank you. You too, pal. Thanks, Bill. See you, man. Bye, buddy. Well, that's a good man for coming back. Yeah. It was so long ago, I didn't remember anything we talked about, so I'm glad. It was well over three years ago that we first had him on. It was one of our first shows, and we asked him about the podcast business because we now, if you can imagine Dax was the first though right? Yes Dax was the first episode Dax was the first but and then we got very topical at the time and so yeah it just didn't work and Jason's kudos to you for bringing him back because he's such an infinitely interesting guy I could talk to him forever about everything I really admire that he's been able to just crush it in multiple areas and stay so grounded a topic up and he fucking knows about it it's crazy yeah you don't want to get into an argument with him he'll kill you with facts How's the bi work coming, Sean?

58:11Yeah, Sean, how is the bi work coming? Well, I can't really do it because I've been working on it for probably 40 minutes. Oh, you're not wearing your regular glasses. You're wearing your... Bi-focals. Bi-focals. With the assist from our net. Bye. Enjoy your day. Smart. Blast.

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