"Bowen Yang"

7:31Sean Hayes:I'm more, I'm still bothered about that TV behind you because it never gets viewed because it's in the worst. Well, sometimes, sometimes if. Well, no, sometimes if, this is my office. And so if there's stuff going on.

7:45Will Arnett:Yeah, we could see the fax machine. Oh God, he's really knocking down big deals over there.

7:51Sean Hayes:But it's just, it's just the placement of it is so locked in. And then the seating on the other side of your desk is so far away. I know. I know. No, it's not that far. Anyway, when Scotty's got something going on, I come in here and I'll watch. I don't need to explain myself to you. Okay, here we go. Ready? Watch this. Yep. Sure. My guest today is smarter than all of us combined and practically half our age. Oh. He started college as a pre-med chemistry major because he was inspired by Sandra Oh's character on Craze Anatomy. Is this Doogie? On Craze Anatomy. He was born in Australia, moved to Quebec, then to Colorado when he was nine.

8:29Later, he moved to New York, got a graphic design job to pay the bills while doing late night improv and eventually walked into 30 Rock and booked Saturday Night Live, giving him seven seasons and five Emmy nominations. It's a hilarious, delightful Bowen Yang. Oh my goodness. It's Doogie. What's up, doogs? It's Doogie Howza. It's doogs. I've never seen it. I've never seen that show. You're too young. You're too young. I don't think I know. I've seen pieces of it. Wait, Bowen's got, you've got awards behind you too. No, and you guys, I knew you guys were -

9:03Will Arnett:No, that's a bust of Ben Franklin. This is Ben Franklin? No, this is the parting gift they gave me at SNL. The makeup guy. Is that Lorne? So now they do 3D scans of your face. Yeah, that's Lorne. No, they do 3D scans of your face. Wait, you're not done on SNL. Yes, he is. Yes, he is. Oh, God damn it. It's okay, but we had a good time there, Jason. We got a Rita just last year. I love this, by the way. There's a special quality to this. It's so His Girl Friday, just you guys all overlapping. It's so cool. No, we're the worst interviewers

9:30Sean Hayes:and we get a lot of shit because we interrupt each other all the time. People are like, I wish they'd shut up. We're like, well, this is what a conversation is, right? People don't get it.

9:38Will Arnett:What about on yours? You guys overlap, I bet, all the time. Or do you do it together? Las Culturitas. We do it together now. We used to do, we would do it very much on Zoom in years past, but now we're back to spatial, shared, whatever. Studio. You guys are going to like really Rorschach test my shelves, aren't you? I don't see, this is the thing about awards. Mine are mostly glass, which I feel like are less legitimate. What, your awards? Because they could break.

10:03Sean Hayes:Well, let's go on the books. You got a Kate Bush. Yeah, oh really? I got a Kate Bush thing. Oh yeah, I like Kate Bush. What do you got, a HomePod?

10:11Will Arnett:Is that a HomePod up in there? This is a Sonos. This is a Sonos. Oh, gotcha. What's the gold one? The gold thing is a Golden Globe? No, this is the newly redesigned Academy Museum honor. I was there. You were there. I was there when you got it. I was there when you got it. Yeah. No way. Congratulations. They used to be, thank you, but they used to be smaller silver Oscar statues. Really? And now it's a gold ice cream cone. I don't understand why they changed it. What's it for? Vibes. I don't know. For being excellent, you dumbass. Vibes.

10:45Sean Hayes:For being great at what he does. Sean. Which is? No, no. Can anyone here describe what I do? Sean, I don't know if you know that. solid vibes. Sean won a Sean won a silver fedora. Yeah, look at that. Right behind him there. It's cool.

10:58Will Arnett:For excellent cosplaying of Indiana Jones. It's excellent. And he was excellent at it.

11:05Sean Hayes:Bo and Yang, what's, what's, talk to, hang on a second. No, don't yeah me. I'm fucking talking to Bo and Yang. Wow. How dare you? That's so rude. Cool it. Sorry, God. No, I want, I want to talk to Bo and Yang for a second. I want to know why you, how and why you moved around and what happened. who were just talking about moving around and then Sean intros you and it's like bing bong. They're like all over the place. All over the place. Why did I move around? Yeah, your parents, you were born and then you moved to Quebec and then, what did I just say?

11:33Will Arnett:You started in Australia. Then you had to get the hell out of there for some reason. Quebec and then Colorado. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Quebec and Colorado. No, it was, my dad's been at the same job for the past like 38 years. But he got his doctorate in Australia. So that's where my sister and I were born in Brisbane. Then we moved to Canada, Montreal, where I learned about Celine Dion. And then we moved to Colorado.

12:02And what did you learn about there? I learned about... Oh, no, I moved to Colorado. Go ahead and get in trouble right now. At the tail end of... I'm going to get in trouble. I moved at the tail end of the Clinton administration right after Columbine and Jaminé Ramsey to Colorado. So as an eight-year-old, I'm like...

12:18Sean Hayes:The whole Clinton administration was about tail end. Let's be honest, okay, guys? Hey, wait, Bowen, Bowen, how many years, how old were you then when you moved from Quebec? Because I want to get into the Canada stuff, obviously, as a Canadian. Let's get into it. Yes, I would love to. Eight years old. So I was hysterically sobbing, being like, why are we moving to the place where people get killed? Like, it was right after Jean Benet, who was in Boulder, and it was after all this mess. Wait, but this is interesting. I'm going to tell you, Willie, because this is, and this will prompt Bowen, which is your dad grew up literally in a straw and mud hut in Inner Mongolia, taught himself to read by candlelight, got a PhD in mining explosives.

13:02What? That's right. And then moved across three countries. That's crazy. You can go to school for anything.

13:07Will Arnett:So he got a doctorate in blowing stuff up. Yeah. In blowing stuff up. Yeah. For, at quarries and such. Yes. Well, he loves it. He can take it anywhere he wants. I guess. Sure.

13:20Sean Hayes:But I love your explanation. I love your explanation. He loves it. He loves it. He loves it.

13:26Will Arnett:But like that, I guess you would, I would want someone to be very credentialed before I handed them the keys to some explosives. Right. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And then you went to, when you, go ahead. No, you go, you go. I was going to say, this would relate to Will. You went to, you were like blown away by Just for Laughs, which is what? A comedy festival? Pun intended. I was blown away. Pun intended. Just pour rire. Yeah, really good. Just pour rire. Just pour rire. So we'll... Rire, hein? Oh, here they go. Here they go. Ah, c 'est ça? We get it, you guys. There would be like three street performers.

14:03What? What, Jason? No French. I wish I knew a language.

14:07Sean Hayes:No, but you're allergic to culture. No, but you're allergic to... Tabernacle. You do not have this bridge to... Tabernacle. I have one cigarette. Wait. I love Montreal. So do I. Montreal is a phenomenal city. Truly. Truly. I mean, people say Portland has the best strip clubs. Montreal had the best strip clubs. And I could have, I had the authority to say this as a child. You drive through them on the way back from Chinatown into the suburbs. And you would pass by the strip clubs. And they had great lights.

14:42Will Arnett:Vancouver was pretty gifted for the ballet as well. Don't you drag that shit into here. Yeah, no. Frazier Arms right there. Just outside the airport there. Frazier Arms.

14:52Sean Hayes:Nobody does a peeler bar like Montreal. Old peelers, yeah. Hey? Anyway. So what were you inspired by just for laughs? Like, what's the first thing you saw? You're like, oh my God, I have to do that. I heard the laughs. There would be like street performers, and they still have that, but like it would be free street performances, and it would be the most like Quebec crazy kooky stuff, like a mime who like pulls something out of his ear. Like, I don't know. It was just like clowning plus like jokes. I don't know. It was just, it just didn't have to make sense, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was that and then.

15:33So Montreal was what ages to what ages? Sorry. It was, no, that's okay. It was three to nine. Three to nine and then to Colorado. And then to Colorado, 9 to 17.

15:45Will Arnett:And 17 to what was where? New York. And 17 to now has been New York. Wow. Wow. I'm 17. Is that, when people ask me, where are you from? I don't know. You're not sure what to say? I feel like it's stolen valor if I say, well, if I say, oh, Colorado and then Canada before that. People are like, and I tell them what years I grew up there. They were like, oh, well, you should just say Colorado. And I'm like, yeah, but developmentally, like those Canada years were important to me. Well, how much, but really, I mean, for any of us, how much do you remember before nine years old? Not a ton. I remember a ton.

16:18Will Arnett:A lot. Yeah. Just a lot of screeching tires, Shani?

16:21Sean Hayes:Not all of us had to black it out, man. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Jakey Bates. Jakey was trying to learn how to die on the set of Little House on the Prairie and getting notes on a little less on the dying, Jake, okay? Little Jakey Bates with his bowl cut. Have you ever seen photos? Google Jason when he was a kid. He's so fucking cute. Yeah. It's unbelievable. Unbelievable. And you could see him getting there in action, and he's got to die.

16:47Will Arnett:Pulling up my overalls. Hey, Pa.

16:50Sean Hayes:Hey, Pa.

16:51Will Arnett:No, but I think most of what shaped me happened once I got to California, which was seven till now. I mean, you know, I remember snow and things like that in Salt Lake City, Boston, New York, within the ages before. But nothing really shaped who I am happened before then, right? Sure. I mean, so I think... Well, I mean, not as much as, you know, your Colorado years. You know, 9 to 17. I mean, that's the whole cookie right there.

17:19Sean Hayes:I mean, Jason, let's be honest. Living in L.A. from, you know, 18 and through your 20s, you saw a lot of snow then, too. Yeah. Let's be real. Let's be real, huh? The fucking Porsche peeling out of Warner Brothers with a fucking beak full of snow. You come so wicked!

17:39Jesus. Oh, we had some fun. Oh, we had fun. So, Bowen, how do you go? So, pre-med chemistry? Is that right? Is that? Yeah. It was, I was taking cover behind it. Really. Okay. Because I was looking at colleges and I was like, purely motivated by like what the comedy scenes were there. Oh, okay. So, you... It was between like Northwestern and NYU. Yeah. So, you went with the intention to pursue comedy under the guise of pre-med. Pretty much. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Really?

18:11Will Arnett:We were just talking to Colin just about this, right? Where he was - Similar. Yeah. So he's going into Harvard studying, was it - Economics. Economics. Oh, yeah. And then he decided to just sort of tack over to comedy when he's sitting at - So you could go to Northwestern or like you had the skills, the academic qualifications to really get yourself a career that you could count on, a nice, healthy base salary and some longevity, et cetera. But you were like, no, no, let's go with comedy. That's what I want to put it all in on, huh? Terrible, terrible. I mean, thank God it works out. Not terrible.

18:54But who's laughing now? But interesting, yeah.

18:57Will Arnett:Yeah, you're killing it. So it all worked out. But I was interested to ask Colin about that, and I'm going to ask you the same. It was, go ahead. Well, I feel like with Harvard, it's like the lampoon is like kind of institutionally there. You know what I mean? I feel like with NYU, it was like, now I feel like, especially at SNL, it's like, oh, NYU is sort of the pedigree. Whereas like, I don't know, 10 years ago, it was more Harvard-leading. Oh, okay. Oh, really? Right? I don't know. So that was part of the thinking? Because did you end up going to NYU? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so then that was, you thought of that as possibly a feeder for SNL.

19:36Will Arnett:SNL was a goal? SNL was never the goal. SNL was like too, too far out of reach. But what ended up happening was people from our little ilk at NYU, our coterie of freaks and weirdos were being raptured up into the SNL spaceship. And then we were like, oh, wait. So now we have our little canaries or whatever. I mean, it sounds nefarious,

20:03Sean Hayes:Well, were you, it does sound, it sounds like you're hiding something, but do you, were you doing, were you doing sketch? Were you doing stand-up? Yeah, were you at UCB? What were you doing? This was, we were, I was going into NYU right after these boys from Derek Comedy had just sort of like stormed the scene. It was Donald Glover and like DC Pearson and Dominic Dierkes. Like Rachel Bloom was in her senior year. Steph Shue was doing sketch comedy there. where it was all these people who were like, oh, there's something special about them. But at the time, you couldn't say, well, we're all going to make it big.

20:42It just wasn't... You just did what you loved. You could never say that out loud. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it sounds so annoying when people ask you, would you have any advice? And I'm like, if you can be at the right place at the right time, but there's never any way of knowing. Yes, that's a great point.

20:57Will Arnett:Were you doing anything simultaneously to sort of mitigate your risk? studying anything else? Studying chemistry, volunteering at Bellevue, at Bellevue Hospital, the ER at Bellevue, where I got fired because I had to like, because I added like 10 minutes to my time chart or something. It was like they were serious as a heart attack, so to speak about it. They would not let anything slide. We'll be right back. Oh, boy. You know, we talk about closets a lot on this show. We sure do. Kicking the door down, coming on out. We're basically talking about that closets are for clothes. Oh, I just knew.

21:43Will Arnett:And I've taken that too much to heart because my closet is stuffed. I've been meaning to go through my closet. Well, you should sell some of them. I should sell it. I mean, listen, you know, what feels familiar in my closet may be exactly what someone else is searching for. Buy, sell, and discover affordable secondhand fashion you'll love with the resale marketplace, Depop. Reselling can feel overwhelming, but on Depop, getting started is easy. Just snap a pic of your item and Depop can take care of the rest, including suggesting a price to help sell. One of the best parts, there are no seller fees, which means you keep more of your money.

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23:50Sean Hayes:Okay, so something new from Pepsi just hit the shelves. It's Pepsi Prebiotic Cola. It's got that great Pepsi taste and comes in two flavors, Original Cola and Cherry Vanilla. And it is delicious. It has no artificial sweeteners. Plus, it delivers three grams of prebiotic fiber, five grams of sugar, all at just 30 calories. It honestly tastes like Pepsi with just so much more to love. I don't know. To me, it seems like perfect for an afternoon pick-me-up or a movie night drink maybe or something to sip while you listen to a podcast maybe. So, I mean, from where I'm sitting, it's the same great Pepsi just with a different spin.

24:38Sean Hayes:I'm excited about it and I hope you are too. You know what? Let's make it a date. Let's try Pepsi Prebiotic Cola together.

24:51Will Arnett:And now, back to the show. This is really interesting. I read that at NYU when you were chemistry pre-med. That's because of Sandra Oh. You were a huge fan of Sandra Oh on Grey's Anatomy. And then what happened, which I think is hilarious. And her character name. That's not a bit? That's not a bit. It's not a bit. It's not a bit. And her character name is Christina Yang. Christina Yang. Isn't that crazy? It's like the classic, like, your wire's getting crossed. where I was like, it wasn't that I wanted to be a doctor because I saw her. It was because one, I wanted to maybe act and two, because I was a gay man worshiping an actress's work.

25:29Like it was just those two things. Yeah, it's a one-two punch.

25:32Sean Hayes:That's a one-two punch. That's a one-two punch. Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, so.

25:36Will Arnett:But chemistry is not medicine. You're not going to... No. You're not studying medicine. So what could one... Well, what are you studying, Jason?

25:48Sean Hayes:let's hear your thoughts on chemistry.

25:51Will Arnett:I want to know what kind of career one can anticipate with a chemistry degree. So it's funny, like back in the day, the word industry to me meant, didn't mean anything Hollywood. It meant, oh, like you're working an industry job in chemistry, which means you work for like Procter & Gamble or something. You like make deodorants. Dow. Right. Dow, yeah. Yeah. You make these like, you make pharmaceuticals or you make like that was a genuine interest for you you were gonna pursue that no it wasn't it was not genuine at all it was chemistry was because it was the path of least resistance to getting to like finishing my credits there was no like actual interest in it I mean I know some stuff it was a subject you had a handle of like you didn't struggle like I struggled greatly with chemistry yeah it's not simple on the bus on the bus yeah on what on the bus by the way

26:45Sean Hayes:nobody Nobody registered any shock on that. It was silent after you said that. I wasn't looking for shock. Bowen, you never had the feds, you never had a knock at the door of the feds for the kid who's a chemistry major whose dad is involved in explosives? You didn't get a quick visit? I should have. You didn't have trouble traveling? I'm sure I'm on a list. Oh, no, you're right. I never thought of that, Will. I mean... But I wanted to just say all the crazy SNL stuff. So you were like, I read you were like me when you were a kid, you would sit in your room or with your family and do the bunny ears on the TV and get SNL on Saturday night.

27:24I used to do that and watch it by myself in one of my brother's rooms because nobody was around. And then Sandra Oh ends up posting the show, right? Where was everybody?

27:37Sean Hayes:Sorry, where was everybody? And then your sister introduced you to SNL and then you were voted senior most likely to be on SNL in your high school? Because that was like the florid sort of like embellished language for our superlatives. It was like, instead of like class clown, it was like most likely to be on SNL. Right, right, right. Yeah, but there's so many. I was senior most likely to trip at graduation. Bless him. But there's no... Did you? Yeah, I did, actually. On what? Acid or shrooms? Ew. Ew. Come on, guys. Let's all be alive. Let's look alive. Let's look alive. No, but... I just think that's so wild.

28:15And so you watch it, your sister said, then you got voted for it, then you went there, and then Margaret Cho was there. There's so many arrows pointing that you were going to be on the show. It's just crazy. I guess, I guess.

28:26Will Arnett:And then, but then, so when the audition happens, does all that stuff flood in and you feel the stakes and the pressure of it? Or were you kind of indifferent?

28:35Sean Hayes:But let's figure out, like, how did that audition happen and then that feeling? Like, what was the, yeah, how did you get into the machine? so speaking of Just for Laughs that used to be the pipeline like the SNL talent people would go to Just for Laughs in the summer and like they would pick out their people I I never made it to that stage and so I was like I guess it's not in the cards for me but then like my manager at the time said put together a tape five minutes like the standard whatever entry point and I was like they'll never ever fucking hire an effeminate Asian guy like on that show like why would they ever need that so on a lark I was like no one's ever going to see this tape so let me just like fuck around and do what's funny for me and then somehow slipped through that's freeing though that's freeing that's a good lesson

29:22Will Arnett:for everyone that must have been

29:23Sean Hayes:you must that feeling of like fuck it like kind of going to what Jason was saying like that feeling of you're doing it and being able to like do it without a net because you just don't not that you don't care it's a sexy indifference it's a sexy indifference as Jason likes to say right it must have felt really good being able to just kind of do whatever. I think I'm talking to the right people, but I just read this somewhere. I don't really have any knowledge of it, but it's that thing that it's not the yips, but it's like golfers have this when they're a little too focused on the swing. They just lose all prowess.

29:57They lose all capability. It's when you're like, not in a flow state, but it's when you're not thinking of the micro decisions. It's when you're like, who cares? Figure skaters have this. It's like athletes have this overall where it's like, pretend like no one's watching.

30:10Sean Hayes:hondo p hondo p and i think hondo p and fuck guys how young am i but but but but but it is true i do think about that all the time you think about it well they literally in golf they talk about like gripping too tight but there is that notion of gripping too tight in life on any of that stuff and when you do that that's what i meant you must have felt really like god i bet you that was such an advantage because everybody else is doing their tapes and they're so tight because they got to get it right yep yep and i wasn't i didn't really care yeah so when so this i read and i i hopefully this is tragically hilarious and not just tragic if you want to talk about it we don't have to but i'm fascinated by the fact that your parents sent you to conversion therapy in colorado when you were 17 which was hilarious i mean that's why it actually was yeah i'm like there's some comedy probably a lot of comedy from the how horrible that was yeah definitely because well because So the comedy begins and the whole sort of occasioning of it, which was the ultimatum.

31:14So like, I don't come out. I like am discovered to be gay based on the family computer. Remember those? It was like my parents going on the family computer being like, Bowen, what's this? Oh, and they saw. A sultry, dirty, dirty picture.

31:27Will Arnett:Going through your search history. It was a chat window. Uh-oh. It was a chat window. You got to close those, Bowen. You got to close those. So sharing, there's a family computer we're all sharing. Yep. Is that what it was? Wow. Exactly. And you just walked away to get a Coke and... To get cocaine. Yeah. To get Jason's cocaine. So you didn't close your window. I didn't close my window, so mom prints it out. Prints out the transcript. Oh, God. How old are you? Oh, God. Wow. 17. Okay. Oh, no. 17. So she shakes the paper in front of you and says, qu 'est-ce que say? She said, qu 'est-ce que say? and you got to put a little bit more Quebecois on it, Jason.

32:09C 'est quoi ça? C 'est quoi ça? It was crazy. I would be coming home to my parents sobbing at the dinner table every day and I was like, I have to make this right. How could I cause this much pain? And so the ultimatum was, it gets funny, I promise. The ultimatum was, either you stay in state in Colorado, go to Boulder, live with us, or you can go to college with your sister if you go to conversion therapy. But the punchline is my sister was at the gayest school in the country, NYU. Oh, wow. So I was like, sure, I'll do the conversion therapy. It was eight weeks in the summer and it actually became like great bonding time because it was in Colorado Springs, two hour drive up and down from Denver.

32:57My dad and I would like bond in the car and just like actually get to know each other for the first time as like adults or something. and then the guy is such a quack that by the eighth session whatever, we're going through some diluted version of cognitive behavioral therapy where he's trying to put me in my body anytime I've been attracted to a guy it was because you were miserable, it was because you were in pain and I'm like but no, no, no, then the last session

33:26Will Arnett:this makes me sick it is what it is so the second to last session, my dad is asking him for referrals in New York, he was like Bowen's going to New York. Do you have anyone there who does this kind of work? He's like, sure, I'll come up with some names next time. The next week at the last session, Stonewall. Yeah, go to Stonewall and go to Pieces in the West Village. The last session, he starts to go into this anecdote in the third person about one of his former patients. And he's like, yeah, my former patient just gets off at the side of the road in San Bernardino, which is not where you want to be late at night and his car broke down and then he goes to a Denny's and then the waiter's making eyes at him.

34:07And then, and then my therapist starts to shift into the first person. And then I was like, am I really going to have sex with this guy? And then I did. And then he caught himself shifting into the first person. Oh my God. Oh my God. And then like the blood, the blood left his face. And then in that moment it was like, oh, I've just undone all of this work that we've, this like fake phony work that we've been doing for the past eight weeks. and then I was like wow none of this was real I walk out he pulls out a little piece of paper he's like so I couldn't find anyone in New York who does this but there is a guy in Trenton, New Jersey and then my dad and I used to date him I used to date him my dad and I were like oh I guess I'll take the train out to Jersey to see this person just trying to like swat this away there's no way I'm ever going to continue this And so I was like in the closet for like a year at NYU.

35:03But then like all these comedy nerds that I was friends with were like, you're gay. And then by sophomore year, I was out.

35:09Will Arnett:But Bowen, look, we're not talking about the 50s here. We're talking about just a half a dozen years ago. And it sounds like you, and you're in Colorado, which is progressive-ish. and you're great friends with your parents, it sounds like. Yes, currently, yes. Notwithstanding the fact that they want you to go through conversion therapy, you're still like getting along with them and you're driving and you're bonding with your dad and blah, blah, blah. Like how, I don't understand how all this can sort of match because at what point, didn't you at some point say, yeah, no, no, guys, I am gay, I'm happy and you love me and you're happy with me and like, why are we trying to convert anything?

35:56Right, right. They, it's not really a religious thing for them, or it wasn't. Like, I think for them, it was just this cultural thing coming out of China.

36:06Will Arnett:Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah, well, it's not even on a political alignment. It's just them thinking like, oh, I don't want my child to have a worse, harder life. And for them, like they, so what my dad kept saying to me was, speaking of like the straw mud hut sort of ethos, He was like, where I grew up, this doesn't happen. Like, there are people like this. And I was like, no, there are. They just had no concept of it. And so they are both scientists, engineers. They think in terms of solutions. They think in terms of what can be done to change this. And they had - I understand. I read when you said, I read you said your dad will still occasionally suggest you could try women and you called it almost endearing homophobia.

36:48It's so sweet. Isn't it so sweet? That's so funny. That is so funny. It's so nice. Bless him.

36:58Will Arnett:Have you guys had the conversations of like, I guess it turns out there was nothing to really worry about, right? We've had, oh, yeah. Yeah, great. I think we've patched it up really nicely. Like, they have apologized. I've always kind of understood where they've come from.

37:16Sean Hayes:Yeah, it sounds like you had a lot of understanding of it. even early on, understanding that A, you wanted to go to college, so you were doing it to kind of just go through the motions so you could go. But it does sound like you... There's no hint of any sort of anger towards it. You were like, yeah, I get it. I know where they're coming from. That's very kind. That shows a kind spirit, to be honest. Yeah, I love that. So, I want to go back to, if you don't mind... There's never a subject that Sean doesn't want to get away from. More than gay. He's got his question. He's never happy where he is.

37:50Sean Hayes:He's always trying to leave where he is. A hundred percent. We're enjoying Bowen. We're talking to him. We're having a real conversation. Look, if you want, we can talk about being gay all day long. No, I don't want to. Whatever. Just go. Okay, so the SNL screen says, we kind of covered that, but I want to talk about, so first you were hired as a writer at such a young age, which is amazing. You weren't even on camera. Sure. You were. And how old were you? 27? That's a reasonable age. That's pretty young, though. It's reasonable. And the first time you were on camera, which made me laugh, I laughed so hard at you playing Kim Jong-un.

38:29Oh, thanks. It was so fucking... So good. It was so funny. Jason, are you laughing? Just thinking about it. Oh, my God, I gotta find that. It was so funny. I mean, I loved it. Thanks. And then the first thing that ever went super viral was you played the iceberg. What was it? Yes. The Iceberg That Sink the Titanic. Yeah, The Iceberg That Sink the Titanic. Yes, I'm The Iceberg That Sink the Titanic. Which is so funny. What was it like? Talk to me about being a writer and then going, hey, you know what? We think you should be a featured player. And you're Kim Jong-un and you're this iceberg that Titanic hit.

39:05The same sketch? No, no, no. What was the same sketch? It was him. The rage on this guy. It was him all along. Was the feeling like, oh my, Like, how nervous were you to be doing the thing that you set out to do on the first time? So nervous. So what I remember from the Kim Jong-un thing was, it was when Sandra Oh hosted, as you said. Yeah, that's right. I was a writer. Insane. Insane. Insane. Insane. And so they— Well, just insane.

39:33Sean Hayes:Just insane in synchronicity, et cetera. Yeah. I know. It's all very kismity.

39:38Will Arnett:How was that conversation when you went out? Did you go up to her at some point and say, hey, so I just got to tell you really quick. Yeah. When I was a kid. Did you tell her how much she had? You're both responsible for her son. Yes. Okay, good. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I would like do these pre-TikTok. I would do these things where I would just like, just kind of match like on a lip flap perfect level. Like the little like. Oh my God. Whatever, recitals and monologues. And I did her. I saw you lip sync the whole monologue from Devil Wears Prada. I did that. I did, yeah. You've got to see it.

40:09It's unbelievable. I've scrubbed them. I don't know why I'm like so ashamed to see them now. because they're so like pre... But it's incredible. I don't know. They seem prehistoric to me. But anyway, but Sandra and I met before she hosted and then she hosted these other writers, right? Street or Seidel writes me into the sketch where I play Kim Jong-un. I don't have contacts at the time and they don't put my prescription in the glasses that I wear. And so I had to be off book basically, which is not what you do at SNL as you guys know. Like I just had to be off book. I had to like call a Korean friend, Karen Chi, who used to write at Seth Meyers.

40:42I was like, can you translate these lines into Korean for me? Learned the Korean, was off book on a foreign language. Then it was just a million different things. And I had a sketch on that week that I had to be, I sat under the bleachers next to Lorne Michaels in the Kim Jong-un costume. Getting notes. I'm in this Kim Jong-un costume and he turns to me and he's like, maybe we cut to Keenan sooner or whatever. I'm like, this is the most surreal, that's still the most surreal week of my life. Pass the whispering angel. Did you?

41:12Sean Hayes:It's my favorite rosé. My favorite. It's on ice. Did you, God, it must have been, was it weird being all the years you were there just knowing that you were the smartest person in the building? You're learning languages. You're memorizing stuff. No way. I mean, come on. No, no, no. I was no Colin. I was no economics major. I, um, I don't know.

41:31Will Arnett:He doesn't know, does he know French and Korean?

41:34Sean Hayes:Yeah, you can't learn Korean and then memorize it. Okay, so wait. Now, tell me about this. When you were 15 years old, you were doing improv at bars? Oh, yeah. Is that true? Yeah, but this is so, that doesn't age well. I feel like. What do you mean? I think that's fascinating. You got to start on things. How did you get in? Like for young people listening, it's like, oh, if you get doing like improv. But how did you get into the bars? What happened? So there's a theater in Denver called the Bovine Metropolis Theater. It took me years to figure out it's a play on Cowtown. Anyway, Bovine Metropolis.

42:15But anyway, they would do like Monday nights, like kind of open mic situations. And our sponsor at the school, who is also my calculus teacher, this wonderful educator named Adrian Holguin. Calculus, too. Calculus, chemistry. I know, I know. Stop it. You guys, that's enough. So it was awful. I don't know who let their kids go drive into the city on Mondays. I thought that was so interesting. But it was great. It was embarrassing. We bombed constantly in front of people who did not give a shit if we lived. It didn't matter if we did well. It was just about like, it's that Chris Rock thing of just bomb a million times.

42:55Right, right, right.

42:56Will Arnett:Where did your sense of humor come from? I mean, your parents, you say, they're both scientists. But maybe, are they super funny? I mean, no. How did you develop it? Was it just watching? It was, guys, and I hope you guys can accept this or receive this. I think it was, do you remember, this is the value in network comedies, right? It was everybody having the same frame of reference as to what was funny. It was watching you guys, sorry to put you on a pedestal, but it was that. Take your time through here. No, go ahead. Don't finish. it was like going to school it was going to school the next day being like oh my god did you guys watch Arrested Development or it was like and Sean like after I did this thing so Jason my farewell sketch was with Cher and I thought and I was constantly thinking back to Sean Sean and Cher together and it was just I mean that's just like peak guest star God Sean I love to be guest star moment

43:59Sean Hayes:with Cher was that a moment

44:02Will Arnett:for you when Will and Grace really hit their stride? And I mean, yes, there was a moment when Ellen came out. That was the big sort of watershed moment. But then Will and Grace, I believe, followed that, Shawnee. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And was that, did you feel a sense of like, well, there may be a spot for me. I might be able to just light my hair on fire and say, yeah, I'm not closeted about anything. There is room for me and us and et cetera. Yes? I don't know if I got that far because I'm telling you guys, I never, I would have been, if you had asked me right as I moved to New York or right out of college, if you had asked me what my ideal job was in showbiz, it would have been just to be in a room, just to be in a writer's room.

44:43I never placed myself in those things. And I don't know if it's about representation stuff. It was more just about I'm good just knowing the inner work. I would watch The Simpsons and study the credits. It was about that. That was the granular kind of comedy thing that I was working with. But watching Sean, I think it was about like, oh, this is the language. This is the vocabulary of like, or this is just a sensibility of what like gay queer humor is. And then it turns out it's universal.

45:12Sean Hayes:And if I could do that and take what Sean's doing and just dial it in half. And you could have something good. You could have some kind of future. Like if you could just make it somewhat palatable. You know what I mean? And then you could. I can only hope. I can say that to the guy who's got four SAG awards and Emmys and Tonys. Who counts four? Sean, are you an Academy Award way from an EGOT? No. But I, no. I'm an E.T. You've got your Tony and your Emmy. You're an E.T. And Olivier, so I have a toe. Oh. And a SAG. And a SAG. I have toes. I have toes. Saggy toes. I have saggy toes. Saggy toes. We'll be right back.

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49:27All right, back to the show. um wait bowen so but that but jason if you haven't seen it the his his last bowen's last um sketch his goodbye sketch was took place in a delta lounge and it was with ariana grande and share and it was so clever how you wrote it or how you and the writers wrote it whatever that you your wife calls you and well you can i say yeah yeah yeah you said i forget what it was about, but it was eggnog, right? Yes. And Ariana Grande's character. It was the Christmas show. Yes. And she says, all the eggnog you've made over the years, some of it was great, some of it was rotten.

50:08And you say, and a lot of it got cut. And a lot of it got cut. Which is really cute. And it was very emotional. It was really clever. It was really clever to do a Delta Lounge. And you were saying, it was really like. It was, it's a little, yeah, it's a kind of, it's obviously like allegorical, metaphorical, whatever. but I was like, oh, something about departures at an airport. It was the Christmas show. It was like, oh, something about...

50:32Sean Hayes:Jason got it, finally. Jason got it. He's this old man who works through the eggnog station and then he's like, oh, eggnog, it's not for everyone, but the people who like it really like it and they're my kind of people. And that's the whole message of it all. And then Cher comes out as the boss. Yeah, it was really funny. That is sweet.

50:51Will Arnett:Walk us through the thinking about leaving and the approach to that, the decision to that. What the next five to ten years of your life looks like if you could program it. Do you allow yourself to kind of make plans and strategize a bit? Kind of. I don't know. I feel like I can't plan around trade wins. I feel like things are just uncertain.

51:21Sean Hayes:Oh, that is a great way to put it. Yeah. You know? I love that expression. Yeah, that's really good. I've never heard that before. That's a fucking great way to put it.

51:28Will Arnett:But to strangle the metaphor, you do got to put the boat in the water and point it one direction.

51:34Sean Hayes:You sunk it. You didn't strangle it. You sunk it. No!

51:38Will Arnett:It's a gorgeous story. What island would you like to arrive at? Yeah, yeah. You know? The Maldives. Like, do you want to do just purely comedy? Would you like to get into drama? Do you want to do more acting, more performing? Where are you getting pulled right now? All of it. Honestly, I'm sure you guys feel the same way. Podcasting was never on the menu, but it's taken up a lot of space in a good way. I would love all of that. I think just to go back to the Tradewinds thing, it's like I don't I'm honestly like thinking about where comedy lives right now it's like I feel like even at like the Emmys it feels like it's like relegated to this place even though I think comedy shows have this like extra thing they have to do where it like has to present something optimistic about the world and it's really hard to do that right now I think you know it's like I don't know I was just watching stuff I'm watching comedies and watching dramas sort of an equal measure and I'm like, the dramas are amazing, I love the dramas, but I think the comedies have this extra thing to do where it's supposed to reflect something back at you and also be like a nice, a thing that makes you feel good.

52:57Sean Hayes:Yeah, well, first of all, there's a lot of, it seems to sort of, this trend of a lot of pieces, material that's not necessarily comedy that gets kind of, you know, grouped into that, under that umbrella. And I don't know how much comedy you do watch. I find that these days I don't watch a lot of comedy. I don't know if you guys do. I really just don't. I don't know if I'm missing it or it's just not the thing. I don't know. You can probably tell by how boring I am. No.

53:33Will Arnett:Yeah, there's different reasons why comedy is not as a big thing as it used to be. Scripted, you mean, like in that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's up for debate, but we need it now more than ever. What are the great,

53:50Sean Hayes:what are the great, I'm asking all of you, what are the kind of the great scripted comedy things that are out there right now? Yeah, that you would watch. The comeback? Yeah, that's pretty funny. That's bad. I mean, I love, oh God. Yeah, she's hilarious. Comeback. But even that, even that's a little bit like bleak. Like it's like, oh, this is, this season's about AI and it's about how like the writers rooms have like two people in them. And it's like, whoa, shit. Like this is different than it was 10 years ago when the last season was on. It's like, it just, it has these weird, it just has this weird mirror that like is sad to look at.

54:28And that's what's hard. Right, right, right. What about, I like talking about this, your dating life because you said - I'm bringing this down. The vibes are so bad. No, I like it. No, what are you talking about? I love it.

54:39Sean Hayes:No, you're really making me think, Sean before we get into the dating life you're really making me think about that idea that like and we want to get into your dating life we have some graphs and we also your mom sent us some printout we printed out some stuff some charts some of your options some of the female options but Willie but in a recent Esquire I read your Esquire interview the what I've learned piece when you were reflecting you said about work you said, this is you saying it, you said you feel like you've hit critical mass where you did too much too soon or something like that. And you wanted to slow down and focus on quieter work.

55:18I get that, but just know that I don't feel, there's millions of people that don't feel that way about you. Yeah, I'd take a lot more from you. Yeah, there's so much more, you know. Oh, my God. Yeah, for real. Careful.

55:30Sean Hayes:Drench me.

55:32Will Arnett:Jason.

55:32Sean Hayes:Hang on, Jay, your mic went out for a second. What was that? Just so we can get it, guys, quiet. Let's get it clean. Soak me. Oh, my God. Jason. I got to say, Jason showing up to SNL was always like, everyone was sort of straightened up. Be like, oh, Jason and I had a really nice, intimate conversation. It was like, everyone's like, I think he's flirting with me. It was like, Jason's a charmer.

55:57Will Arnett:I like to get up nice and close. That place. I love that place so much. I just watched that Lauren documentary. It was really cool. I loved it. Oh, I haven't seen it yet. I'm tired of it. It was very, very good. So, Bowen, because I've read this too, and I want you to only want what you want, but that you said it was impossible to date during SNL and where you would go on a couple of dates and then just vanish. Like, what's going on? I would vanish. No, you would vanish. I put that on me. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's a self-call-in. Like, I just, I would get swept up in the show, in the work. and it's just so hard to put any stake in your own life, it felt like.

56:42But I mean, that's not to say that it's impossible to do. Now things are fine. Things are normal. I'm still unlearning so many things in a way that I am grateful for and I also mourn how my life used to be. I do miss it so much. I've been getting dinners and lunches with people on the breaks who are still there and I'm like, oh, it's nice. And I have to say this because people are listening. It's okay to be single.

57:11Will Arnett:Why are you saying it like that? Why are you looking at me? You know what I've never heard of? And again, this is a guy that lives in a cave, I guess. Oh, boy, this list is long.

57:19Sean Hayes:This list is fucking long. Stuff that you've never heard of.

57:24Will Arnett:It's not common to hear about Saturday Night Live hookups and couples with the cast, right? I mean or writers or whatever I don't think it's a gay thing I don't think it's a gay thing no in general gay straight just in general like you know people who go to school together like that's all you have or just your classmates is sort of like you know I went out with him last year and this year like you don't hear about that on SNL and you'd think that you would just based on schedule like you don't have a chance to meet anybody else really you guys are in there all the time we're in there all the time oh but I thought you were talking about Jason like intra-SNL hookups within SNL people are.

58:03Yeah. I mean,

58:03Will Arnett:castmates dating one another or a writer with a castmate or writers and writers and you don't, right? I know. And you think that you would. You're right. I just wasn't, yeah, I didn't really encounter that but I don't feel like I missed out. Yeah, no, not at all. I love that your Instagram handle is at Faye Dunaway. That's your name on Instagram. I didn't know that until recently. Yeah. I laughed out loud at that. First of all, I can't believe it was available. I can't either. And I'm holding onto it for dear life. She wants to, I think she wants it bad. How much time does your podcast take from you each week?

58:42It siphons from me like six hours a week, which is not that bad.

58:48Will Arnett:Right. Which is fine. And with your other time, what's the ratio between work pursuits versus personal, you know, just taking care of yourself? How hard are you working, Brian? I'm working decently at like a reasonable intensity. I still am exhausted at the end of the day. Sure. I think I'm still kind of like my nervous system is still sort of like resetting from SNL where it just knows a work is done, then it's time to go to bed. Like there was that switch. But you have to now self-program. Like there was a schedule, you had to be there a certain time, blah, blah, blah. Now you've got to do it all.

59:25Will Arnett:Are you finding your self-motivation adequate? Not yet. It's getting there. How do you guys do it? Well, I'm very good about when I'm working, I'm very, very disciplined. And when I'm not working, I could not be worse at doing anything responsible. Yeah. Jason's one of my favorite quotes is Jason says, I want to aggressively do nothing. Yeah. And then when I'm working, I'm an animal. Well, actually, the truth is, and I mean this,

1:00:00Sean Hayes:when he's not working, he obsessively plays golf because it gives him something to do. Yes. That's super challenging. So he plays it five, six days a week. Yeah. And then he'll say to me, like, hey, do you want to play tomorrow? I'm like, no. And he's like, I've got, like, one thing, but I can't do it all the time. Like, he has to do it because he needs that. I have addiction issues, Bowen.

1:00:21Will Arnett:I'm much better.

1:00:21Sean Hayes:I find I'm much better when I'm not working at being able to just kind of chill. Like, I did my little stuff this morning, and then kind of like go to the gym and kind of, I find it like easy to watch some soccer, take a nap.

1:00:32Will Arnett:Those are just saggy days though,

1:00:34Sean Hayes:right?

1:00:34Will Arnett:Where you're like, it doesn't matter if you wake up at 8 a.m. No, it does. Or 11.30 a.m. Like those days are like, I feel like I'm being irresponsible to another day of life. Oh, I'm still up at 6.

1:00:44Sean Hayes:I'm still up at 6 a.m. every day. Right. Yeah. Good for you. Get the kids to school, all that kind of stuff. You have to do, the kids give you that too. You know. Sean's on a strict chocolate cake schedule. that I do not stray from. That you never stray from.

1:01:01Will Arnett:That's got a mixing bowl by 10.30. Sean, really quick, what did you have for breakfast today? I had blood work done so I couldn't eat. But then when I came home, I had a peanut butter sandwich, a glass of milk, potato chips. Before 11 a.m., it was a peanut butter sandwich? Yeah, yep, at 10.30. There's no bad time for it. Not at all. There's always a good time for a peanut butter sandwich. So Las Culturistas, which is huge, just hit 10 years. Amazing. They've been doing that podcast for 10 years. 10. Yeah, it's great. Congratulations. Yeah, that's huge. It's really cool. What year are you guys on?

1:01:42Six. Six. Yeah. Yeah. Lovely. We're about to hit six. Yeah. And then you have Cat in the Hat coming out November 6th with Warner Brothers, which is amazing. I love that. Bill Hader. It's amazing. Did you see it yet? No. I love it. I forgot that I'm in it. I think that's going to be huge. And then the last thing I want to do with you, which is such a great thing you do on your podcast. It's called, oh, what is it called? I don't think so, honey. I don't think so, honey. Good shot. Which is similar to, who's that guy that Jason, you brought on the taxi cab guy who films? Oh, the subway takes that?

1:02:16The subway. Oh, Kareem. Kareem. It's a similar thing to what Kareem does, which is you have a thing. I don't want to put you on the spot if you don't have one, but do you have a, I don't think so, I'm sure I do. I've got one. Or your favorite one. I've got one. Okay, what is it? I don't think so, honey. Outdoor furniture. It's a scam. It is only meant to be dirtied. Your cushions are flying all around. You got to like bring down the umbrella. The rugs get dirty. There's no maintenance on outdoor furniture. But we feel compelled. It is compulsory that we buy it to fill out our outdoor spaces. And yet it never aesthetically looks pleasing.

1:02:54It's a terrible, terrible cycle. It's almost Faustian. I don't know how, but it's like we give up something. We give up our... The indignation of outdoor furniture is terrible. And I know this is a very champagne problem-y thing to have, but it's just awful. We have to cover it when it's raining?

1:03:12Will Arnett:They should give you a power washer with it. Oh, I love that. That's a great take. Mine is, I just thought of this knowing you were coming on because it just happened to me yesterday, is pulling up to a parking spot where there's a meter or trying to find a parking spot. Somebody comes out, they get in their car, so you put your clicker on because they're about to pull out and they never pull out. They're on their phone. They take 20 minutes. This is their time. I don't think so, honey. Yeah, I don't. I don't think so, honey. I don't think so, no. But you know what I think, Bowen Yang? You are brilliant.

1:03:42You are hilarious from the first time I saw you. Thank you for being here today. I love you guys. I love that Bowen Yang. You're a treasure.

1:03:48Sean Hayes:You're not just a national treasure. It turns out you're an international treasure of many countries. continentally North America. The Commonwealth. The Commonwealth. Thank you for being here, Bowen. Bowen, thank you, man. Thanks, guys. Thanks, Bowen. Yeah, I love it. Thank you. Nice going. I know Jason hates, he hates an afternoon record. I do. Oh, my God. You're so right. You're so right. This is staying in. You made it worth it, though. So keep it in.

1:04:14Will Arnett:You made it worth it. You've changed my attitude about it. They can all be like Bowen Yang records. Let's do it then. That was really fun. Thanks, Bon. Thanks, Bon. Thanks, guys. All righty. Thanks, buddy. Bye. See you. Have a good week. Have a great rest of the day. Bye.

1:04:31Will Arnett:Oh, great. I like him. I like him a lot. I want to be his friend. Yeah, I know. I think we are his friends. He's really funny. Do you think he has any openings for friends? I think so. I think he does. I would underperform. I'm a terrible friend.

1:04:45Sean Hayes:Let's have dinner with him. Yeah, he's one of those people that's super intelligent and super funny. I think the two often go hand in hand. Not in my case, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then also, I think... Oh, sorry. Do you want to push back on that? Sorry.

1:05:00Will Arnett:No, I don't want to push back. No. No. I need to get better about going out to dinner, don't I? In order to be just a halfway decent friend, I need to actually get out of the house. You go, though, sometimes. I mean, but I don't even take your phone calls. I know. This is true. That's like... This is true. You guys tried to FaceTime me the other day, and I just wouldn't have it. You know what happened today? It was you and Josh, Willie. No, you know what happened today is the three of us run a texting chain and then I stopped because I know you don't like to get pinged constantly. Well, just build the paragraph and send that.

1:05:30Will Arnett:I don't need 17 sentences.

1:05:32Sean Hayes:But sometimes you need a conversation to go back and forth. So we're going back and forth with the thing we were all talking about and Sean's like, I feel bad because I feel like Jason doesn't want to get annoying. So I took you off and I just went to me and Will. We have to manage Gramps. Really? Yeah, because he has a breaking point.

1:05:50Will Arnett:what about if I'll just leave the conversation I'll just hit that button if it gets too much

1:05:54Sean Hayes:well what would you say Jason got so mad at me because he kept leaving Nertle when we were doing it a few years ago because he didn't want the full back and forth and then I kept adding him he's like fuck off

1:06:07Will Arnett:it's like the fish that wiggles off the hook and you keep gaffing it and pulling it into the boat it was so funny I'd be like guys watch this and then I'd add him into the conversation that is so funny Jason what would you say if you left the conversation I would say bye. Bye. Smart.

1:06:25Sean Hayes:Less.

1:06:29Smart. Less.

1:06:34Sean Hayes:Smartless is 100 % organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbaco, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Armjarf. Smart. Loss.

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