"Charli xcx"

20:14Will Arnett:And certainly like if you have an older sibling, when they kind of like tease you and stuff. In retrospect now, being the old timer that I am, I do look back at and having kids of my own now, I do sort of see the stuff they go through as like, it helped me a little bit. I didn't see it at the time. Do you find that it helped shape you and the kind of music you make now? Yeah, I mean, I don't have any siblings, so I didn't, I actually think not having siblings actually means that you miss out on a lot of conflict. And I mean that in like actually a bad way. Like I think my friends who have siblings are so much better at conflict, as in they don't kind of amplify it up into this huge dramatic thing.

21:03It's just they're able to move through it a lot more quickly than I am. Because they know how to diffuse it, you know?

21:10Will Arnett:Yeah, and as an only child, you're sort of protected and you're coddled and it's all about you. Yeah, and then also it's like the only people you really have to really fight with is your parents who are this figure of authority in a way. So the clash feels far more drastic. And there isn't a sibling to kind of just diffuse it a bit and make it feel less of a big deal. So it feels really gigantic. Does that mean that you would love to have more than one kid or would you like to have a kid that has the same sort of experience as you where it's the only child and you get to just kind of nurture and protect?

21:50I actually don't really want to have kids.

21:52Will Arnett:No, none. You don't? Wait, why? You know, that could change. By the way, it's none of my business. But Shani, you've never really had any interest in it. Yeah, I mean, we've said it a million times that I want to want to have kids. And my husband, Scotty, grew up an only child, and you can use this phrase. He always says, I was spoiled but not rotten. Right. So he was always, he has to learn how, he had to learn everything that you're saying, like how to diffuse conflict and all that stuff. But yeah, I was, you know, I've said it a million times on this show, that I'd rather regret not having kids than have them and regret it later.

22:26Right, right, right. Because you never know what you're going to get, like the roll of the dice. Do you ever see the show Intervention? It's like, if I had a kid, that's where they would end up. Like, dragging me through the street, like, fucking drug addict. They would be great. I mean, I know what you mean. It's like, I love, like, the fantasy of having a child. Like, naming it sounds so fun. But I'm like, that is exactly a sign to me as to why I should not have one. The fact that that feels like the coolest part about it. Right, right. And like, maybe I'm not ready. You know what I mean?

22:57Will Arnett:But, you know, all that could change if you might, I mean, I'm sort of, I guess I'm backing into giving myself a half-assed compliment here, but my wife did not want to have kids. So the story goes. So she tells me. And she didn't. And you adopted yours. And she said once we started going out and she was like, okay, I think I can have a kid with this guy. So you might find somebody. Well, I'm married. There we go. I got to read a newspaper one of these days. You know, it's okay. That's why you're here. I was enjoying, I knew immediately like where we were going to go. I knew my response. I was going to be looking forward to it.

23:34Will Arnett:Maybe your next husband you're going to want kids. Yeah, exactly. Let me finish, Charlie. Yeah. We'll be right back. This episode of Smartless is brought to you in part by Skinny Pop Popcorn. So I think one of the great journeys in life is finding the snack that's right for you. You know, and it's constantly changing, but what is constant is the love of popcorn. I think that we all have. So finding a snack that tastes great and feels like a solid choice should not be more complicated than solving a 1 ,000-piece jigsaw puzzle. Skinny Pop popcorn made with simple quality ingredients always satisfies.

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27:43And now back to the show. but wait though this is really cool this is so wild i did not know this that so when you start for starting out all the illegal warehouses this is what i read all the illegal warehouses that you would go to you would go to raves and you would what perform there and your parents would not just drop you up they would go inside with you yeah yeah i mean i was so lucky they're very supportive at the time i was like this is so lame like they're cramping my style But, you know, they were obviously just very, very supportive. I feel very lucky. And so you would play shows at these raves, right?

28:18Yes.

28:18Will Arnett:Are they still involved with your career? There's a lot of musicians that still have parents that are involved with their career. Very successful. Mine aren't, but they're still, you know, they're very proud and they're very supportive, but they're not involved in my career, no. Do they ever give you notes on your music? Do they like your music? I'll bet they do. They used to. My dad used to love throwing out some suggestions. Yes. Very much so. Ever anything useful? Anything useful ever? You know, I think it's like, I feel bad for him because I think it's one of those things where even if it was the most amazing idea ever, I think purely because, and this is, he used to do this when I was a lot younger, like purely because he was my dad, that he was always going to get the no, you know what I mean?

29:04Right, right. But I'm sure, you know, he's a smart guy. I'm sure he probably does have good song ideas up there. Can you tell Jason about the story about your dad, somebody tried to sell drugs to your dad at one of the raves? Right. This was actually my mom. Someone tried to sell some drugs to my mom at a rave. What flavor? Yes.

29:30Will Arnett:Jason, Will, I got to say, So, listener, we've gone 17 minutes without Will Arnett, and it's really been great, Sean, hasn't it? It's kind of been breezy. It's like this was a very useful experiment. Willie, if you ever have an illness or something like that, we're good. We got you. Yeah. Or not. Actually, it's really cooking along great.

29:50Sean Hayes:I can't believe this is like my worst nightmare. Oh, please. We're here for you. What's happening over there? You okay? No, I'm having a stressful day. Do I call you Charlie? Yes, that's my call. that we covered that. You already covered it. I've had, I've had, Charlie, can I just say, I've had a really, I share with the boys, I won't get into it, but I've had a really stressful day on a personal level. It's been a very, yeah. I'm sorry. We're going to get into it afterwards.

30:14Will Arnett:Insert joke here?

30:15Sean Hayes:No. Well, there was an insert joke, yeah. Part of the problem. I still got it. You still got it. Charlie, I'm sorry to have missed it. This is not, this is unlike me. I'm usually pretty good about this kind of stuff, but anyway don't you worry it's so fun everybody's got like you know this is one of the best episodes because Charlie was a little late you were a little late I'm always a little late I avoided a little teasing

30:41Will Arnett:that Will undoubtedly would have given me for really having my head up my ass about Charlie and like all granddad here needed a little update he didn't know she was the she born the term brat you know with Kamala Harris and all that like she was the

30:54Sean Hayes:I don't think I knew that either wow I know who you are more than Jason does it's okay guys it's I'm very aware of your music and who you are. It should be noted. Don't you worry. I'm still listening to Steely Dan, Charlie. Yeah, and that's cool. It's a problem. That's cool. Wait, I just thought it was funny. Will, I was talking about how Charlie's parents used to go with her to the raves that she performed at, like all these parties. That's fun. And her mom was offered a baggie of? Well, of MDMA, but she thought that they said MDF, as in the wood that you can buy to, like, panel a wall. And my dad was like, we could use some of that, but I don't know how we're going to fit it in the car.

31:42And the guy was kind of like, wait, how much do you want to buy? And I thought it was a very sweet story.

31:50Will Arnett:He's got a lot of tolerance. From them in their rave. They can handle a lot.

31:54Sean Hayes:Yeah, that would be really useful for us, actually, if I think about it at the house, what we could use.

31:59Will Arnett:Yeah, yeah, yeah. By the way, this might be inappropriate, but I am hearing a lot about MDMA. Again, getting back to being an old timer here. I'm hearing it's quite the thing. And it's got a lot of - Is that the horse tranquilizer thing? No. I think it's kind of like ecstasy.

32:13Sean Hayes:It's kind of like what ecstasy used to be, right? Right, yeah.

32:15Will Arnett:I had a little of that way back in the day. And I'm hearing this MDMA is a good time. I'm not advocating trying it or doing it, kids, but I hear it's a new thing. Well, they do MDMA therapy now, I think, as well, right? Which is not something that I've tried, but...

32:33Sean Hayes:I've never tried it. Have you? I believe it in therapy, like a Friday night therapy. You know what I mean? Just one night. With like a little sidecar of Tito's, right? Whatever it is that you like. Whatever makes it go down a little better, you know? Gotcha. Oh, my God. Okay, so wait. So I want to know... Okay, so I want to talk about getting the music stuff. So do you remember the first time? Because I find your story so fascinating that you were so young and you started, you discovered you had this talent at such a young age and you were kind of like a superstar and you flew under the radar.

33:07And then, you know, I knew you, probably like the world knew you with, I love it, I don't care. Like that song was so huge. No, I only did, I don't care, I love it. but you weren't really like featured in the video which I thought was weird so what was that like knowing you wrote this song and this was your song but was having the success without your face on it kind of so to speak yeah no I mean it was funny I had a really sort of like strange career in that like I I was kind of like doing a lot of stuff and had some really really big hits but I was often either the writer of the song or the feature of the song.

33:51And so like nobody really knew who I was. So I did exactly as you just said, like completely fly under the radar. Like I was like going to cool shit, like working with incredible people, traveling the world, but was also kind of completely anonymous. So it was very, it was like interesting and very actually useful, I think, for me, especially with my previous record, Brat, which really did kind of like open me up to a much wider audience. I think had I not had that experience back in like 2013, 2014 of these like honestly like big chart-topping songs, I probably would be like totally like off my head right now because I wouldn't really be prepared.

34:35Do you know what I mean? Right, right. So, and I would be like a complete nightmare, which maybe I still am. I don't know. But you know what I mean? No, you're not. I would be really indulging. You're not. So yeah, it was interesting. And it's kind of like over those years from then to now, I've sort of like built my audience like sort of in a very kind of slow, like organic way. Right, right. So yeah, it's been a kind of interesting path. And tell me, tell these guys, just go ahead. You have free reign to brag. All the artists you've written songs for. Not all, but like the...

35:09Will Arnett:So you'll write songs for other artists... All the time. ...that you don't necessarily want to perform yourself? Yes. Big hit songs. Yeah. How do you decide? Like, okay, Selena Gomez, Iggy Azalea, Camila Cabello, Sean Mendes. Wow. Sean Mendes, right. James Blunt, randomly.

35:30Sean Hayes:Do you write them for them or you write them thinking that you might do it or they just become a... you're like, hey, I've got a song that I've written, or somebody comes to you and says, Charlie, hey, I've got an idea, do this for me. Or can you just write me a song? It goes every way. All of those ways are options. Sometimes it's kind of like a, we need songs for XYZ artists, and this is what they want to say. And then sometimes it's like, I'll write a song, and I'll be like, oh, I thought this was for me, but actually, I don't think I should sing like a sort of flamenco sounding like pop song because that doesn't make sense for me as an artist.

36:10Will Arnett:And what you're writing is the music or the lyrics or both in these cases? I write like the lyrics and the top line, which is sort of the melody that the singer sings. Right. Incredible. Yeah. Because I was surprised a few years ago, I learned that it's not that uncommon for some of the biggest stars in the world. to not write anything ever. It's all incoming. They're just the same. I don't mean to belittle it, but they only do the singing and everything else is kind of taken care of. Yeah, but you know what? It's funny. I think there's a real stigma against that, you know, like that sort of in some ways like makes those people like less of an artist.

36:54But I don't really agree with that. I think there's like different types of artistry. Like there's someone who's, there's like a great performer versus a great writer versus a great entertainer versus a really like unbelievable vocalist.

37:07Will Arnett:I think there's sort of... It would also be like the equivalent, sorry, it would be the equivalent of like an actor just acting versus somebody who's also, who writes and directs and produces as well as act. It's like, it's really cool that you can do all of those things. Yeah, I mean, I enjoy it. I mean, wait till this movie comes out. I mean, like... And how did that, were one of your parents musically inclined? Did they kind of put the bug in you? No, not really. How did you find it? I think it was, I played piano growing up. I was sort of studying classical piano. Oh, Shawnee. And when I was younger, I had no interest in classical music at all.

37:51I didn't think it was cool. I didn't get it. Now I feel completely different. I love classical music. All I listen to. But at the time, I really didn't relate to it. And I thought it was kind of embarrassing that I was doing it. So instead, I really was trying to write pop songs and chords and kind of escape out of this classical stuff that I was learning.

38:16Sean Hayes:But that background in that, it must have helped you sort of songwriting-wise. Yes.

38:21Will Arnett:Yeah, Elton John talks about that, how that informed a lot of his writing. You know what? It's interesting because when I was studying classical music, I was really basically just doing it to pass the grades, like the classical grades. And each grade you would have to learn three pieces of music and then you would do an exam where you would play the pieces of music. And you would also do like sight reading and another test. I can't remember what it was. But I actually couldn't read music. I always really had trouble reading the music and playing what was there. So I would spend an entire year learning and practicing these pieces by ear instead of actually just being able to pick up any piece of music and read it.

39:06Yeah, it's called the Suzuki method, yeah? Sure, I think so, yeah. And so I couldn't really read any other music. so I actually have a really low-level knowledge of classical music. So when Elton John's like, oh, yeah, for me it really helped, that's probably because he's obviously fucking Elton John and can probably play any single thing ever. But I could only really hear things by ear. Right. And also, to the extent you feel comfortable talking about synesthesia, because I think it's fascinating. Do you guys know what that is? No. Is it where you see music? Is that right? You see music in colors.

39:47Oh, really? So can you describe that and how you first found out you had that and how you use it today? Yeah, I mean, it's funny. It's like, I think it's not just about music. It can be, I don't know, some people might be like, see the days of the week in colors. It's a kind of color association to a thing. And different people have different stuff.

40:11Sean Hayes:I have that. You have that? Yeah, for certain things I have, but I've never thought about it. But yeah. Really? Wow. For days of the week, you said days of the week. Days of the week have colors for me.

40:20Will Arnett:Wow. You've just been diagnosed by Charlie and you didn't even know you had it.

40:24Sean Hayes:I don't know, yeah. And so do you put what color's Wednesday? Pink. What? You just made that up. No. Thursday's green. What are you talking about? Why? Friday's orange. Saturday's blue. Sunday's yellow. Monday's blue. Are Fridays you're in love? Tuesday's red. Fridays you're in love. Friday the cure? I don't care what Monday cost us to. But anyway, sorry, but it's not as evolved as yours. No, I mean, so it's basically just for me, it's like I was, when I first started realizing that I guess I had it, and I didn't really know what it was when I was sort of figuring it out, was when I was working with producers and I would sort of say like, can you make this sound more blue or more purple?

41:08And I wouldn't quite be able to articulate specifically like the sound design that I needed, but I just knew that it needed to sound purple. And then when the producer would help generate that sound, I would say, like, that's it. That's my purple. That's purple or whatever.

41:24Will Arnett:And so now do you have to work with that producer all the time? Well, yeah. I mean, I do work with the same people quite a lot. I mean, they know. They definitely know, like, what I mean when I say something.

41:34Sean Hayes:Have you ever tried, like, I don't know how to explain this. Have you ever, like, listened to one of your own songs and tried to paint it as you listened to it? Yeah, I was just going to ask that. I haven't, actually, but I think I do sort of like see it, kind of. And when I listen to other music, I kind of like, I see it in a way. I'm like, oh, this song evokes this color immediately. And do you ever reverse engineer that for inspiration when you write a song? Like, you know, we always ask a lot of musicians, what comes first, the lyrics or the music? Do you ever see a color first and then music comes from that?

42:09More recently, no. it's really generated specifically by when I hear sound, then I start thinking about color. But on this last record, to be honest, a lot of the songs were generated from like lyrical-based ideas. Like I was really leading with lyrics.

42:27Sean Hayes:Is that new? Is that like a departure from? Yeah, yeah, because I used to kind of write phonetically where I would sort of go into the booth and just kind of record like a kind of like a ad lib track where I'd be like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I would fit like lyrics to the vowel sounds that I was creating. Yeah, that's cool. But now, yeah, more recently I'm becoming much more lyric led because I think on the last record I had some like really specific stories that I wanted to tell and I didn't feel, I don't know, I just felt like I really wanted to kind of throw out any like tropes that I had previously used in the past.

43:10Like I particularly wasn't interested in rhyme with this record. I just wanted to like say the direct dialogue from my brain in the way that I would text a friend. Like I think that became like kind of the tone of the record.

43:22Sean Hayes:So are you ever doing it on piano based on your sort of your history with piano? Do you ever do that? To be honest, no. My music is very electronic. Yeah. and kind of, especially on the last record, like very like club-based dance music. So I wasn't really going to the piano too much.

43:43Will Arnett:But given what you were saying about how you're much more lyric-driven right now, there's certain things that you really like talking about and saying and communicating. How important is it to you that people hear every word in the lyrics? Because like I'll try to follow lyrics and, you know, Some folks, they don't really, you know, they won't screw up the song to enunciate, you know. Sometimes it sounds better to just kind of mumble it out, and I get that. Yeah.

44:12Sean Hayes:But you're like, motherfucker, I want to hear what you're saying.

44:14Will Arnett:Yeah, but that's how you look on Apple Music for the lyrics, right? Right, right. I do that too. Yeah, I don't really care about enunciation, to be honest. I think it's, if you... Overrated. Yeah, it's overrated, and also I'd love to hear, you know, your interpretation of what I'm saying rather than what I'm actually saying because, you know, no one fact checks anyway anymore so it's fun to just play into it. Yeah, yeah. Sorry, Sean, go ahead. No, I was just going to say, how do you know when a song, I don't think we've ever asked this of any musician on the show, how do you know when a song is done?

44:45Because it's like in film editing, you could just do it forever. Like you could just tweak and tweak and tweak. So for you, when you write all these massive hit songs, this long list of all these huge songs that how do you know when you're done i mean i think it's different for everyone but for me i mean people can go for ages on a song as well um and really like chip back into it over and over again in the way that you would with an edit but i for me that's my nightmare like i i think there's a real charm in spontaneity um and that's like a big part of my process as an artist as a writer it's really that like instinctual kind of first reaction to something that there is something almost like charming and naive to it sometimes.

45:36Like, you know when you're a kid and you're coming up with ideas, like if a kid writes a song, sometimes they could like say something so profound and like actually really surreal and abstract that as an adult, it might take you a while to kind of think of or something and then it might even feel too forced. I feel like that's, for me, it's like the same when I'm writing. I'm like the first idea is often just way more, I don't know, like unique than when I've sat down and really thought about it for a while. So I really try and just like capture the moment in that kind of a way.

46:13Sean Hayes:Do you know when you have finished a song, do you ever get that sense where you go, this is a hit song. I can feel it. For real, I mean, you must have those. I do, but it's like those ones are always the ones that actually end up sucking. You know what I mean? It's like, I mean, it's like, I'm sure, I don't know if you guys have this when you're writing or when you're performing, if ever you think you kill it, you probably didn't. You know what I mean? It's like one of those moments. All the time, yeah.

46:47Will Arnett:And also, if it's immediately catchy, you can get sick of it really quick. and those are the ones that are probably too simplistic or a public might get tired of too fast and it doesn't end up working. Possibly. I also think it's funny. I think we're in this kind of new era of creativity as a whole. I definitely feel this way about writing songs. I don't know how you guys feel about this, but I think we live in such a reference-heavy world now that I think things can kind of become catchy or earworms or something that you want to revisit for other reasons outside of maybe they're like really like dynamically written or like the melody is technically good.

47:31It could actually just be you're referencing something that's so within the zeitgeist that that itself is like the hook of it. And I think that's a really interesting way of writing. Like it's more like topical writing.

47:43Sean Hayes:Well, I think that that probably happens a lot. We have like, think about all the, you know, the songs that we love sort of for nostalgic reasons, right? that other people might be like, yeah, that song doesn't really mean much to me. You're like, really? Doesn't it remind you of that summer when we were 17? They're like, no, not really. Sorry. Right, right. For sure. And we will be right back. Hey, guys, you know how winter makes your car so filthy with like salt and the snow and the sleet and all the ice scrapers and shovels you keep in the trunk and you can bring in mud and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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51:07and now back to the show

51:11Will Arnett:what's the turnaround time for for for a song because like if you were trying to follow trend with film it'd be a fool's errand because it takes about a year to turn a movie around from when you started to cut it to release it i mean at a at a minimum um how long does it take to turn a song around? I could, like a day? I mean, I mean, not even, I mean, sometimes you write, I wrote, I love it in 30 minutes, which is the one that you were singing amazingly. But it's not, that's not me being like, aren't I amazing? I mean, the lyrics are like on repeat. It's not, you know what I mean? It's like, but it's just, I think it's just like, we have this saying, like me and a couple of my collaborators where it's like, you have to dare to suck, right?

51:53And like sometimes in like daring to suck, actually the most fucking like universal genius idea comes out where you're just being stupid.

52:02Sean Hayes:I've been daring to suck my whole life out of it, if I'm being honest. If I was sitting in a studio and I was writing, I mean, I could 360, Apple, whatever, but since you said it, I love it, I don't care. And I would be like, guys, what about this? I love it, I don't care. I wouldn't have the confidence to be like, yeah, I think that's going to work. You know what I mean? But that's it, right? It's like commitment to the bit, you know? You know, it's like, that's all it is. It's like if I like came to you guys with my tail between my legs and like sung those words, like fucking whatever. But if I like tell you, no, this is like fucking the shit and it's so good.

52:40And like, even if you think it's dumb, it's like, that's the point.

52:44Sean Hayes:I'm so inspired by you right now. It is. I mean, I am too.

52:48Will Arnett:Where did you get that from, Charlie? Yeah, and that's a great environment to provide for the people around you. You must enjoy that leadership position of creating harmony in your work so it feels safe and there's no bad ideas. We can be foolish. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, yeah, it's fun. I think there's this idea that I sometimes disagree with that, like, making good art has to be hard. And, like, sometimes I really disagree with that. But sometimes I'm like, no, I'm in pain and I'm a real artist. And I like to kind of like pendulum swing between both of those things. Right, right, right. But I don't know.

53:29I think, yeah, it's funny. I'm always very, I have always been very interested in like the connectivity between high and low. That's always just been like something that's been really inspiring to me. And I think that whole like daring to suck mentality, it's very sort of like, I don't know, like factory warholian in a way. It's like paint the soup, just fucking paint it.

53:55Sean Hayes:Yeah, well, I think that it's also about the idea of like, I remember having this teacher once years ago telling me like art is absence of ego. Like if you can get to the place where you're not judging it in real time, where you can let go, and you guys know what it means too, when you're doing what we do or whatever, where you can get to that place where you're not judging it and you're just in the, for lack of a better word, flow, and you're just in that thing. Yeah. That pocket when you can get into it. Those two, the people you're around, they'll yes and it.

54:24Will Arnett:Yeah, yes.

54:25Sean Hayes:And you can kind of, and they're like, you don't worry about it. You're not worried about the result of it. You're not thinking about how it's coming across. You're not thinking, you get out of the results and just, then those moments are magic. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. And what I also think, and I'm not sure if you guys feel this way, but I think the second I try and write for someone else or to appeal to lots of people. Yes. It's like everything kind of falls apart. And actually it's like that more like potent vision where maybe you're even just like selfishly writing for yourself, really like directly about your experience or your experience with one friend or like whatever it is.

55:06Like the more kind of like potent and distilled it is, it weirdly actually then becomes something that more people can relate to because it's so singular.

55:17Sean Hayes:Because you believe it and you're doing it for you. And what's funny is we live in this world increasingly because of whatever, social media, et cetera, where we do, it is all about this. There is so much feedback constantly on what we do. So it's harder and harder to get away from that. And what's funny is, just hearing you say it, is that we need to kind of reject that in order to make something really pure in that way. We need to reject the idea of what other people will like, even though the final product of what we do is for public consumption. Mass public consumption, too. You know, so it's kind of contradictory to the exercise in a way, and yet that's the thing.

56:00Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

56:02Will Arnett:Yeah, it is a conflict for sure. With all the success you've had, Charlie, like three Grammys and one Grammy show in one year at the same show. That's crazy. Yeah. Three Grammys. What, and like I keep saying over and over, I'm just like so impressed by your talent at such a young age that you, somebody, your parents, you, whoever, encourage you to keep going with that. and then now that you are older and knock on wood hopefully wiser what's the part of the music industry that shocked you the most you know once you were actually inside of it you know like if you knew then what you know now just how no one really knows what they're doing right you know isn't that the truth that is the truth it's like everybody it's very funny it's just sort of and you thought differently yeah I was like oh this must be run by like a really like tight ship of people who like know what's up and know.

57:02You know, it's like, it's not really the case. Nor is it, I think, ever the case in any sort of like creative field. It's like the artists know what they're doing and then hopefully you have people with brains to facilitate you and then not too annoying. Really, it's like kind of the vibe, right?

57:18Sean Hayes:Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's funny, do you feel like they're like kind of, also you create the stuff and then the business sort of reacts to it. They're much more reactionary rather, right? And then they're always trying to recreate with other people, like that whole idea. Yeah, and you know what? I think when I was younger, that used to really bother me, but I think now it doesn't. I think obviously that's just the way it is. It's like I couldn't be a record label exec. I couldn't work at a distribution company. That's not the brain that I have. I have a different kind of brain where I'm like, why don't we fly planes through the sky that say Brat Summer or whatever?

58:01You know, it's like, and then they figure out how to do it. Like, I don't know. It's like, but I did used to be sort of frustrated by why can't you all be on my page with my ideas? But actually that would be a nightmare because then it'd be less about me, which would be awful. Right, right, right. All right. Do you remember the first time you walked on stage and felt like the wall of sound coming at you and like, wow. Like just that feeling of, like was it, were you scared? You're like, oh shit, I didn't think it was going to be like this. That's too many people. Yeah, exactly. You know, no, I think because my career was such a slow burn, like when I started, when I was 15, I was playing to like rooms of three people and that was like my two parents and the promoter.

58:51Do you know what I mean? Like I was like welcoming more people in a way. And over the past sort of 10, 15 years, it's really grown gradually and gradually and gradually from 100 cap rooms to 1 ,000 rooms to 5 ,000 cap rooms to now finally being in arenas. And the first time when I did step out into playing in arena, I just remember being like, well, there's going to be no one there. And all the tickets have been bought by bots. Like that is what I convinced myself in my mind. I was like, no, it's going to be so embarrassing. All the tickets are gone, but they're all bots. Like I've just, you know.

59:35And so it was like a really pleasant surprise.

59:39Will Arnett:On this film, was it just purely for like a musical film to sort of augment the musical venture and all that stuff? Or was there a bit of an acting sort of curiosity there too? And if so, do you see that being a part of your world going forward? Yeah, I've been acting a little bit now and producing. You're liking it? Honestly, I love it. I mean, I feel like I, it was funny. It's like once my album Brat did well, there was obviously this opportunity for me to just make another album exactly like that and like kind of gain, like capitalize on it. And for me, I've always had this sort of motto of like, what would Chloe Seven you do?

1:00:29And I feel like what she would have done would just be like, no, babe, I'm not doing that anymore. That's really funny. That's a great title to your new album. It's so good. What would Chloe Seven you do? Yeah, well, it's like she's the coolest. And it's like, I think she would just probably be like, no, I quit music, you know? So I was kind of like, okay, I think I would like to sort of do some kind of a drastic pivot where I, yeah, I kind of explore acting. I mean, I'm watching films like all the time, like more than I've ever listened to. I basically never listen to music apart from like Lou Reed and like The Velvet Underground and like John Cale's solo stuff.

1:01:06That's like kind of it. Yeah.

1:01:08Will Arnett:Right. But I'm like watching a lot of films all the time. Do you have a favorite this year? Favorite film this year? Yeah, yeah. That I've seen. I just watched Surratt the other night. oh yeah I want to see that oh is it good I want to see that too it was really really really really amazing really amazing I also love this film Atropia which is this film by Hayley Gates who is and Callum Turner is in it and it's like a like a really it's like very very like funny like satire on that sort of like fake military zone that they have that sounds great it's great it's really great I want to see that but yeah so I'm kind of like really enjoying watching so I kind of sort of started asking like a few of my friends who are either like directors or writers like do you think I could kind of do this and they were like yeah but like don't be embarrassing about it like you don't want to be like the girl who's like I'm an actress now so I was like yeah no no no I bet you'd be great you have a great presence I agree because I think

1:02:11Sean Hayes:your approach artistically the way that you look at stuff I think is really appropriate for well thanks yeah I mean I was interested in just doing like small things. Yeah, smart. So I was really lucky to kind of, I did like this Gregoraki movie that I'm like super excited about. I'm really excited to work with Takashi Miike this year on this film that I'm going to produce, which is like crazy to me to like go to Japan and shoot with like a horror auteur. I'm like, this is insane. So yeah, I'm really enjoying it. I'm really enjoying it. Total like crazy segue to nothing. But I just want to mention this.

1:02:46I thought it was so wild that you had an angel phone. Is that true? Where fans could call a number and you would actually answer and pick up at any time of the day? No way. Is that true? Yeah. You know, it didn't last long because it was a nightmare. Yeah, of course.

1:03:01Sean Hayes:I'm sure. Like five minutes in. Yeah, yeah. It was good for like a good solid, you know, like five hours. But it was stacked, slammed, slammed, slammed. But you guys should do one of them, you know, one day for an hour. Yeah, it'd be fun. We'd be sitting by the phone. It would not ring. It would be so embarrassing. And then it would be one call with a bunch of notes. It would ring. You guys here. It would be my mom. This is what you need to fix. And the last thing I read that's really interesting, that's a little like me, but you have 14 alarm times saved on your phone, but none of them are on.

1:03:37I've got that. Yeah. I'm never really putting them on. Yeah.

1:03:42Sean Hayes:So is it like... What do you mean? You don't believe in alarms? What's the deal? No, it's not sort of a political stance. It's more just like, I just, I generally like, I do kind of wake up roughly at the same time unless I've been partying and then I might put an alarm on, you know? Right, right, right, right. What's the time? What's the time you generally wake up? It really depends if I've been traveling on. I'm a bit jet lagged at the moment, so I'm waking up at seven, which is very early for me.

1:04:09Will Arnett:Yeah. That's early. Like normally I'm like a 9.30 kind of girl. So you're going to bed at 2 or 3 in the morning? Yeah. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, you should.

1:04:20Sean Hayes:Yeah, me too.

1:04:21Will Arnett:Hey, what about travel? How do you like that part of the business? Because it is a necessary component to music, right? Yeah, you must be on the road all the time. Yeah. You have to tour, right? You can't just sell albums. I hate touring. I hate touring. And I really do it in quite a specific way where I think compared to a lot of my peers, I'm not really doing that much touring. My husband's in a band and they tour so much. Like all the time. I think their last album they toured for like two years or something like that, which is like just not an option for me. But you'll go with them, yeah, for a bit.

1:05:02Will Arnett:Sometimes. You'll kind of pop in every once in a while. I'll pop in. I'll pop in on like the coastal cities, you know. But I'm, yeah, I'm not like, I'm not like on the bus, which is like, no way. And what about him? For my sister, for Jason and my sister, George Daniel is the 1975. That's the band. Oh, wow. Roger, Roger. Okay. And then he will reciprocate and he'll come see you every once in a while when you're doing some touring? Yes, exactly. But he, it's kind of, I think, a bit harder for him because he's sort of like a six foot four bald man. and my fans are all a lot shorter than that. And so it's very easy for him to be spotted when he's sort of bopping around.

1:05:49So, yeah, but it's sweet. Yeah, we swap. We go back and forth.

1:05:54Sean Hayes:Who are the musicians that you listened to when you were growing up? What was the pop music or any kind of music? Who were the bands that inspired you? I was pretty diverse. I mean, I think when I was a lot younger, I was very into like Britney and the Spice Girls. That was definitely my bread and butter. And then as I got a bit older, I was really into The Cure to Kate Bush, to Suisu and the Banshees. Like that kind of a world. And then I got very into like French electro kind of stuff like Daft Punk and Justice and like that kind of world. So sort of all over the shop, really. That's it. And I have a question about touring because these people are…

1:06:39I like French music too.

1:06:40Sean Hayes:Same. You do? What do you listen to? I listen to La Farm. I love that band, La Farm. I think that they're really cool. Charlie, what's the big… Okay, are we done with that? Thank you, Sean. Sorry. No, just keep going. Sorry, man. I didn't know I was boring you. I just didn't want to hear about La Farm anymore. I was ready to go there, actually. But no, we'll… Another time. No, go. Are there a lot of animal sounds? We have a great song called Tatiana. It's an amazing song by La Femme. It's just an absolute banger.

1:07:07Will Arnett:Oh, yeah? No, tell us more about that.

1:07:13Charlie, before you go, I want to know the biggest, when you were touring, the biggest onstage flub or concert blooper or whatever that you just will never forget, like something that just went totally wrong. He loves his stage stories. I love my stage stories. Oh, my gosh. Like a fan that did something or a song that you screwed up or... I mean, I can't... I don't know. I'm not sure I've had any really disastrous on-stage moments where I've really fallen. I mean, I've definitely fallen, but not in a way that I've found embarrassing or anything like that. Oh, that's good. But I used to get a lot of strange gifts from fans, and I think those will always stick with me.

1:07:55My two favourites were I got a douche, which I was asked to sign. You're welcome. And then I also received a jar of somebody's mother's ashes as a necklace. Oh, wow. Wow. And I did exactly that, Will. I went, oh. I wanted to be grateful and not offensive, but also was terrified. So those memories will always stick me.

1:08:25Will Arnett:What about dancing and singing at the same time? I always marvel at how you guys don't run out of breath. because you have to have a lot of breath to sing well, yet you've got to keep moving. How do you do all that?

1:08:36Sean Hayes:Not even just dancing, just moving around. Yeah, I mean, okay, so Jason, like one thing about me is I don't really like dance. No. You'll go away. You have that in common with Jason.

1:08:47Will Arnett:I'm going to do a deep dive and then I'm going to call you back and say, God damn it, can we do this over? But this is what's so great about these things. You know, we get to become smarter. We're smart less people. Exactly, exactly, exactly. No, my dancing is very, it's sort of like a lot of like flailing and it's very kind of, it's not very coordinated. You're the Tom York of, yeah. Yeah, I mean, not far off. It's very kind of like, like that. I love it. Possession vibes. I know where I love it. So for me, it's less, I'm not as like poised as most. So I get the benefit of being able to sort of just, yeah, I don't have to like hit marks and do choreo.

1:09:28I'm more just sort of flailing around. So it's a little easier for me. Yeah, yeah. Well, listen, Charlie XCX, which now that I know where the name comes from, it makes me love you more. Will, I'll clue you in later. Yeah, clue me in.

1:09:45Sean Hayes:I don't care. I love it. I want to say that. Nice. I want to say, I'm such an even bigger fan. Yeah. You're so cool. Oh, thanks. I listen to your music. I go on walks all the time. I love it. I'm going to listen to it even more now with just like more depth to just knowing a little bit more about you. I just think you were awesome. You were awesome. Thank you so much. And just for, am I getting this right? The moment is, it's out now by the time this episode comes out. It's out now. I don't know, maybe. I'm sure. Well, it was released January 30th. Yeah, this is the mockumentary. Okay. Absolutely adore you.

1:10:20I think you're the coolest chick ever. I want to be you for Halloween. Oh, thanks guys. Thank you for doing this. I look forward to seeing that. Okay.

1:10:29Will Arnett:thank you very much bye have a great night you too Charlie bye bye bye bye bye

1:10:37Will Arnett:what a nice person wow she is something else yeah you missed a real good first half

1:10:42Sean Hayes:I know I'm so you gotta listen to this episode Willie I can't wait no this is you're in it I've had one of those this is the episode where they go where they go you know what it's better without him yeah no I told you a remedy came in I know you did something just sipping along talk about it talk about an impressive of artist and person and just right. And life. And just like, yeah, she's one of those, like, what is that? How do you describe that? She's just got it. She's got it. It's really cool.

1:11:09Will Arnett:It's probably not her first lap. No, but like, yeah. You know, if you believe in that sort of old soul thing, you know, like some people have been around a few times. Yes, exactly.

1:11:18Sean Hayes:And, you know, and it's not just, she's not polished. She's so real and authentic. Yeah, that's why people are drawn to her. Yeah, it's amazing. No filter. Just unapologetic. I love her. I know. When we were talking before, Willie, about songs that I love off of her albums, especially off of Brat, here we go.

1:11:35Will Arnett:She listed all the hits. Sure. She listed all the hits. I want you to go down the list. Did anything pop out to you? Yeah. Well, Von Dutch, Talk, Talk, you know, Apple was huge. Like, all those songs. But your favorite would be... And Brat, of course, but my favorite was on the deluxe version that I was talking to Jason about. Oh, of course. It's called Hello... Good. Good. Bye. Bye. Everybody.

1:11:56Sean Hayes:E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X-E-X. Smart. Less.

1:12:06Sean Hayes:Smart. Less.

1:12:11Sean Hayes:Smartless is 100 % organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbaco, Michael Grant-Terry, and Rob Armjarf.

1:12:24Smart. Less. This episode is brought to you by FX's The Lowdown. From acclaimed Reservation Dogs creator Sterling Harjo, the series stars five-time Academy Award nominee Ethan Hawke as Lee Raybon, a self-described Tulsa truth-storian whose fixation on the truth tends to create more problems than it solves. This gloriously off-kilter noir is an AFI television program of the year and one of 2025's most critically acclaimed shows. The Lowdown is available for your Emmy consideration on Hulu and Disney Plus for bundle subscribers.

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1:13:43Sean Hayes:It's different out here. Visit ncl.com, call your travel advisor, or 1-888-NCL-CRUISE. Norwegian Cruise Line. Ships registry the Bahamas and USA. Thank you.