"Jen Psaki"

23:44Yeah. Sometimes. And exactly. The man. I love I think he'd like to be. Are you talking about Joe Biden? He would like to be referred to that way. Dark Brandon, the man, the guy in the oven, whatever. Exactly. Well, look, I mean, I think when I was in the job, and I think anyone who's done that job sees their job as, is speaking, of course, on behalf of the president. So you have to get feedback from that person to make sure you're projecting what they think, what their point of view is, what's actually going on. And sometimes, you know, the job, when I was doing it, I always felt like it was just, You want to push as hard as you can push on the system internally, whether it's the policy experts or the president or others to say, we need more.

24:22We need more. We need to be able to say more because you're kind of the bridge between the media, the press and the president and the senior members of the team. So, yeah, sometimes it was delayed because of that. Is there a specific moment or question or any kind of thing that really sticks in your memory where you're super, super close to saying, why don't you go fuck yourself? the people who know me well would say that like there were times where i basically did without saying go fuck yourself so um yes of course i mean there were um certainly moments where i lost kind of my steam when it was the 11th or 12th time of a question being asked and you just sort of but then what happens is that portion where you lose your steam or you don't give the full answer or you lose your temper is what goes online, right?

25:11So you can be aware of that. There was a particular, I don't remember who he's worked for, but he asked me about abortion all the time. And there was a time where I basically ripped his head off. So, you know, there are times because you're human. I'm an Irish lass in my heart. I can't be level-headed at all moments. But, you know, you try to, especially given the time that we are in, and we were in two years ago, So the whole goal was to try to be calm and even keeled because we needed to kind of take the venom out of the briefing room and return it to a place that was providing information to the public.

25:46And is the official angle that you're speaking on behalf of the president or you're speaking on behalf of the United States? Because there's a difference there, right? That is true. That's a very good question. Thank you. But kind of both. Guys, did you get that? Did you hear what she – It's a bad – We're recording. Why do you think his nickname is Stopped Clock? Yeah. No, it's kind of the answer is both because sometimes the questions were about the president's view. He is the leader of the United States or the president's meetings or his schedule or his conversation. And then there were sometimes questions both about the policy of the United States.

26:32Which are sometimes at odds. The president would say things that were at odds with the policy of the United States. That's when things got a little tricky. Jen Psaki, I want to get to know Jen Psaki. You were born in Stamford, Connecticut. Is that as possible? Well, I was born in New York City. Oh, I thought you were born in Stamford. It's all good. They're close by. When did you move to Stamford? I mean, my parents were living there when I was born, but I was born in New York City Hospital. Okay. Because they were living in New York City. Well, now you're arguing. Refresh your Wikipedia page.

26:58Yeah, I don't know. I'm also not Polish. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Not Polish? No. Not Polish. That's on your wiki page too? I think so. No, I didn't say Polish. I didn't say it. Oh, I don't know. Maybe it's not on there anymore. I'm not sure. Are you Greek and Irish? What else? I am Greek and Irish. Greek and Irish. Yeah. You're Gryrish. I've never heard that, but I like that. Gryrish. What about, so you have three sisters, you're the oldest of three sisters. Your mom was a therapist. Yeah, still is. Still is. What was that like? Oh, she still is. I love that. I could use her.

27:25What was that like growing up? And did that kind of, you know, communicate better? Oh, maybe. I mean, my mother didn't go to college until after I was born. And she didn't become a therapist until I was probably about nine or 10. And she used to have appointments in our house at night sometimes after we went to bed or later. But she always it never really she was always around, which was great for me as a kid. And she was obviously doing school and stuff. But she still is like this great advice giver. I mean, as a mom, she's somebody I call and I think, what should I do about this? She's biased a little bit.

28:08So did she masquerade the therapy as parenting ever? You know what I mean? Like, did she mix the two? Yeah, she did. Although my sister and I still, my sister's two years younger. One of them's two years younger than me. And we still laugh about this time. I mean, my mom, you know, did therapy for families, troubled teens, their parents. And when we were in high school, we came home from high school one day and my mother said, what is this? What is this? And she was holding something up and she thought we were big into drugs or something or doing tons of drugs. And I was like, mom, it's the drawstring to my shorts.

28:42You know, she, she has no, even though she, even though she dealt with adolescence and all sorts of things, she really was also kind of a, um, had a little blind spot around that sort of thing. Was dad around? Dad was around too, yep. My dad worked in New York. Good for you, an Irish dad that stayed. Irish and Greek, Irish and Greek. Yeah, my dad is still, I mean, he's 80 now, but he, when I was growing up, it was like family vacations where he knocked on your door at 6 a.m. and you went out for a, you know, four-hour bike ride and then a six-hour canoe and then that was, maybe you could rest after that.

29:20There was an intensity. Sean's dad was 80. Sorry, he was going 80 when he left the library.

29:29You go screw yourself, son. And then I just had the black exhaust on my face. Sean's dad left when he was a kid, and it's been a source of a lot of laughs. One lot of laughs. And then, Jen, you married Greg. Yeah. Right? Sweet Greg. Yeah. Sweet Greg. Sweet Greg. Chief of Staff to Congressman Joe Kennedy. He was, yeah. And where did you two meet? And do you, same question about your mom now to you and your husband, Greg, and your kids. Do you now, is there debate that goes on in the house in a way that you, you know, because of your background? Oh, between us about politics? Yeah. Sometimes. I mean, we met at the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, which is very D.C.

30:10nerdy. Hot, exactly. Hot AF. Political rom-com. Exactly. He brought me some Grater's ice cream, if anybody knows of Grater's from Cincinnati. What? I have it in my fridge right now. Best ice cream on the planet. Okay. And, yeah, that's where it all started. Rahm Emanuel takes credit for us getting together. So that's funny because Greg traveled with him. Wow. But, yeah, we dated long distance for a couple years, you know, all the things. But still married 13. How long have you been married? 13 years. 13 years. Wow, that's great. And wait, how old are your kids? They are five and almost eight. Eight on Thursday.

30:48Wow. Oh, my God. And you took your daughter to the Taylor Swift concert I saw on Instagram. I did. Was that the greatest thing ever? I'm about to do the same thing. Oh. I hear it's a great show. How old? How old? I should know this. I've got a 16 and an 11. Two girls. And do they know they're going? Yeah. Yeah. And they're fired up. And I'm kind of fired up. We've got a mutual friend, Willie, that said that it's the greatest concert he's ever been to. And he's our age. So he's been to a lot of shows and been to a lot of great shows. And I don't think he was exaggerating well, right? I mean, that sounded pretty sincere.

31:20And so I'm really looking forward to seeing it. Oh, yeah, yeah. He loved it. Yeah, loved it. And when you say fired up, Jay, you mean you're firing up the chopper to land at SoFi because you don't like to deal with traffic. I don't like traffic. Not too much. I'm just going to hover, actually. I'm going to lower the kids down, but I'm going to stay up top. Oh, there it is. Oh, boy. Oh, see? Yeah, we're holding up ice cream to the camera. It's so good. It's really good. I love it. Sean, by the way. Sean, you got a pint of ice cream in the house. Jen, I'm so sorry. If you looked in Sean's freezer, you'd see he's like, ice cream from Ohio.

31:49We got ice cream from Indiana. He's got ice cream from every state. It's okay. It's okay. I think he's a Grater's fan, so there you go. There it is. I like it. We'll be right back.

32:01And back to the show. Jen, what's going on with the Hollywood Correspondence, or not Hollywood Correspondence, what's it called, the something Correspondence Center? The White House Correspondence Center. The White House Correspondence, that's right. Now, I went there once, And I really... We were there. Right, yeah. We loved it. But has it taken... It's taken a hit lately, right? Well, probably because of the last administration. No one really wanted to go. But like, can we get that back up and running and make it like... Kind of like... Make it cool again? Wait, does it not happen anymore? I mean, it does, but I want to go back.

32:35I think it can come back. I mean, I'm going to put some responsibility on all of you because in order for it to be fun, you've got to bring fun people who are not political. Well, why don't you invite us? You can... You're invited. Why don't you have the sake table? Do you all want to come with NBC and MSNBC next year? Yeah, of course we do. Of course we do. Let's do it. What about the three of us will host it, right? Yeah, how about that? Oh, together. Oh, you'd be so good. Now, the White House Correspondents Association, they're going to ask to invite to speak, but I can put in a good word with that.

33:06No, Peter Doocy's not going to ask us. You'd be good. There's better ones than us. Peter Doocy's not going to ask us. The Doocy family doesn't want us to do it. No. I will say, one, I actually have a good relationship with Peter Doocy. Sure. But also, this year it was the most normal is not a good way of describing it because it's sort of a weird dinner. But people of all parties, different backgrounds, doing different things, all interacting. That's how it always used to be. And it kind of had a gap when it wasn't like that. So this year it felt like that, which was kind of nice. And when is it traditionally?

33:38I forget. End of April. Or, well, sometimes it might, but usually end of April. Okay. I want to know original career aspirations. Did you always, what were you into? Sorry, Sean. Jay, how many gummies before the White House Correspondents? Oh, boy, I'll be really fired up for that one. Oh, boy.

33:58Dude, I don't, I never leave the house with a gummy in my body. Okay. Are you crazy? Okay. And I don't have a freezer full of ice cream from every state. Yeah, and we're talking about vitamin gummies, right? Yes, of course. Of course. Obviously. Sean. Go for Sean. Original career aspirations, earliest memory, like the kind of career you wanted, like was this always your trajectory? Were you like. No, I have never had a five year plan. I certainly didn't when I was five. I still don't. I love it. I love it. I did. I did. Remember 2020 with Barbara Walters and Hugh Downs. I still remember the music.

34:38And when I was a little kid, I just thought that show was great, which is kind of a weird thing. I did too. It's really exposing my nerdy side, which is kind of obvious. It was like more than just murder and mayhem, that show. It was different topics. Totally. Yeah, it was good storytelling. I mean, I wouldn't have defined it that way, but I liked that. I did say at some point that when Barbara Walters was ready to retire, or maybe I said something more heartless, like when she died when I was little, because you know you're insensitive as a little kid, that I wanted her job because it seemed fun.

35:07and it seemed like she was telling stories. That's not insensitive. No, it's just, we're all going to die. If you said it at her funeral, that would be. That would be. And as, you know, five, six, seven, eight-year-olds, you're a little, you know, you're funny, but you're a little off. Well, is that, now you say you don't have a five-year plan, but is that a natural progression of sort of the lane you're in now, as far as media goes? I mean, I really, the show's about three months old, four months old now. It's so good. Thank you very much. Yeah, you're doing such a great job. You know, every week we just try to think of who we want to know more about.

35:42Right. And try to have them on as a guest and what we want to know more about. And then I usually try to spend a couple hours with somebody so that we can do a piece about them that isn't just about the news of the day. But who are they and what are they thinking about? And actually, it's a show I think I would want to watch. But I always thought about what I wanted people to come away with. Right. And I want them to feel like they're learning something about, even about someone, something they didn't know. Maybe it's somebody they didn't think they agreed with or whatever. You know what I feel I could probably watch a multi-episode series on is Ron Klain.

36:15I bet he could fill a bunch of episodes. I would like to do a bunch of episodes on Ron Klain. He is just such. Who is that? He was the chief. Go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. No, go ahead. He was the chief of staff, right? Biden's first chief of staff. He's now no longer. Where did he go? He was a fan of Smartless. Was he really? Oh, yeah. I've never talked to him, but I bet he is. And he was hugely instrumental in fixing our COVID situation. Yes. Before he became chief of staff, correct? Yeah. This was in the... Transition and figuring out. Yeah, I mean, he was one of the smartest people I've ever met.

36:57And he is a person who doesn't really sleep. And so one of those people who you go to a meeting with and you think, I'm so prepared, I'm ready for all the things, and then he's 400 steps ahead of you. Where'd he go now? He's in a law firm. It's a huge asset we've lost, damn it. Yeah, I know. Were you privy to confidential information in the White House? Yeah. But like the stuff that the president knows? How about everything, Sean? Sorry, sorry, he's trying to work his way towards aliens and UFOs. Oh, a thousand percent. You can fucking say it. A thousand percent. I know, of course, I knew it. I knew it.

37:30I could smell it. That was quite a flirtation. I was like, where are we going with this? Do you want to know if I knew who the bad guys were and who was going to be killed? Just fucking ask her about the UFOs. You know, I will say I had a lot of access to classified information, but there's this thing called need to know. And if you don't need to know, you don't necessarily have access to it. And I wasn't on kind of the alien portfolio UFOs. That wasn't in my group. Do you have any boxes in your bathroom at home? I don't. I don't. I don't have boxes in my bathroom. What can we do about what seems to be a very lightweight, cheesy, wood, blue-painted sliding door there for the press room?

38:08I'd like a switch. Let's switch out something about it. Let's put a glossy blue on it. When you come and you do your tour of Meet the Press and the NBC and MSNBC offices here, we'll take you to – have you been to the briefing room? You've seen it, right? Have you been in there? At the White House? Yeah. Yes. Okay. It's very sad in there. I know. It got better. For these reporters and journalists who are doing amazing work. I mean, it's borderline disgusting, actually, where they work and they do their work. So it needs a whole reboot. That little pocket door. It's so sad, that little pocket door.

38:42The pocket door? Yeah, the little blue one. I know. Now, right behind that, there seems to be a lot of action right behind that. What do we do? So if you walk out of the briefing room back into the White House, how far are you from the Oval Office from there? Or is there like a press room right there? There's what's called the lower press office where a lot of the spokespeople sit and journalists can come in and out. Then if you walk up a hallway, if you go to the right and then one more left, you're right at the Oval Office. If you go to the left, you're in the Rose Garden. Yeah, it's pretty small, right?

39:18Yeah, the whole White House is not big, is it? It's very small. I do have a funny story about the pocket door. Can I tell you? Oh, please. The pocket door. In my first year working for Barack Obama, Bill Clinton came to visit and was meeting with him. And they were having this private meeting. It was also during a lot of the holiday parties. So a lot of the staff were over celebrating Christmas and holidays they celebrate. And only one or two, maybe 22 or 23-year-olds, were staffing the press office in case anyone needed anything. And President Obama, President Clinton, came down and were trying to open that pocket door, which locks.

39:51Like Jason on the airplane in the dock. Oh, yeah. There you go. They were trying to open it because, and the 23 or 24-year-old said, can I help you with anything? And they said, we have some things we want to say and share with the press. Oh, wow. Now, the reason this is funny, a number of reasons, but one of them is I think they were envisioning that any time you open that door, there's a bunch of reporters, like, sitting waiting. Right. You know? Yeah. And really, a lot of them were at the holiday party and other things. So they had to go run around and say to the reporters, get in your seats, get a pen, put shoes on, come back to the briefing room because two presidents are coming in.

40:30Wow. So, yeah, the pockets are some history. I don't know if you want to get rid of it. And then you've got like those stables outside, right, where the reporters will do their hits from outside there along the driveway, right? Pebble Beach is what it's called, yeah. Pebble Beach? Why do they call it that? I'm not even sure. But it's kind of a row of cameras, so they have the backdrop of the White House. They're like individual little sort of cordoned off tents, right? It's like a swanky hotel pool where you've got a bunch of cabanas. Something like that. I don't know if it's a swanky. Yes, or they stand on boxes in the freezing cold when it's raining and tell you what's happening at the White House or something like that.

41:07Jen, what's your biggest regret? Can I call you Jen? Sure. What else did you call me? I don't know. What's your biggest, I guess Jennifer, What's your biggest regret or do you have any that you can share with us that you were like, oh, I wish I had done this or said this or responded this way? Every day. Every day I did that job. Every day I do a show now. Every time I end it and I say, I wish I would have said this. I wish I said that. Some are bigger than others. And when you're working on a show and we've had that all as performers and actors and stuff, you have those days where you go, oh, I wish that.

41:44But I mean more like because of what you were doing when you were working in government. Yeah. And the stakes are so much higher than as you now see. Now that you're doing TV, you see how low the stakes really are. Do you, when you're actually, you know, helping to what you're doing is part of shaping policy and doing all that kind of stuff. Did you have any regrets going like, I wish that had gone this way or something like that? Yeah. Yes. Again, you don't have to get specific, but you can just. Oh, no. I mean, one, I didn't say there was the president still had confidence in the FBI director on my first day.

42:20By my first day, I already had a regret. I kind of made fun of the Space Force unintentionally because it has a funny name, but it has an important job. Yeah, because it's a clown show. Well, the name is absurd, but like they do an important job. Now, to the credit of the guy who was running it, he sent me a note and even a pin. It was very nice. But my biggest one is probably at the height of COVID when there was a demand for tests and there was a shortage of tests. And people asked me 100 questions about this every day. And this was one of those moments of exasperation where it was like the 19th question about it.

42:57And I said, what do you want us to do? Send them to every American. And that's not actually what we ended up doing because it would have been a waste. but we did end up doing a website where people could order tests. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. And either way, it was just flippant and insensitive and wasn't what I meant at the time. It was just like, I was like, I'm tired of answering this question. But yes, I wish that that would have gone differently. But there's plenty of times. There's so many things I wish Sean had done differently. And he sends them to me. I wish he had a different flavor of graters, but that's for another combo.

43:32Yeah, no, I would love that. Now, Jen, we can cut this question or whatever you want, but it's on my list. It's something that I wanted to ask you about. We touched on it before about the massive, you know, the feeling, the sense of division in this country that kind of has never been here before. And being on now both sides as the press secretary and now having your own show, do you think the press is to, what level of blame, if any, is the press to about the division? Do you think they use too many superlatives and try to draw on these kind of make the biggest wave out of this story and that story just to get viewers?

44:13Or do you think the opposite and the press is just doing their job and they're doing a great job? I mean, from having been on both sides of it, but even I think the majority of press are doing a good job and not just doing a good job, but doing kind of following their role, which is to kind of get to the bottom of the truth of things, right? I think the majority of reporters, and even though I've only been on this side for not that long, I've worked with reporters and journalists and media for decades, right? So that has always been my belief. There are bad actors and people who do not behave that way and do not and share misinformation.

44:51I've been accused of being that. You correct yourself pretty quickly even when you spread, you know, moments. You have moments. But even for those who there are bad actors who spread disinfo, who spread inaccurate information, who escalate things. A lesser violation, I would say, are people who get to freak out about everything, which also is not healthy. Everything is not a crisis. And if you keep projecting everything is a crisis, people are going to turn off the TV and stop reading the newspaper. Right. So you can't tell everybody to freak out about everything. That's right. because, and we even sometimes do segments we call Don't Freak Out because otherwise your nerves are so frayed and you just, it's a little boy who cried wolf.

45:34You don't know when it is actually something that is a crisis and something we should be worried about and not. But there are some people, though, you know, I have over 2 ,000 employees in Minnesota, you know, who would do all need pillows and, you know, I'm not freaking out about anything, Jen. That's pretty good, Willie. That is good. That is pretty good. That's pretty good. You know, I see Jen Psaki on with a bunch of those liberal-leaning Hollywood elite on the podcast. She's on a podcast, you know. What is, what's your favorite little piece of memorabilia that you still have from the White House?

46:12Oh, my God. Either official or that maybe no one knows that you've taken. I'm trying to think of what I've taken. Yeah, you can tell us. We won't tell anybody. What have I taken from the White House? I didn't really take much. I do have my briefing book. Okay. I don't know that that's a real White House memorabilia. It's like from my experience. I didn't really take anything off the walls, I would say, because that would be bad. What's stealing? What's stealing? Did your office have windows? Yeah. Your office did have windows. Yeah. There are many that don't, right? Yes. Were you in the executive building?

46:46No, I was in the West Wing. Oh, you were? Yeah. Because you loved that show. Why did I say that? Of course you were. Oh, I do. I do love that. Actually, I did not watch The West Wing when it came out. I did watch the whole entire series in 2012 after I left the Obama White House. And it made me go back to government. So I was like a late bloomer of The West Wing, but it brought me back into government. I need to watch it. I'm such a good guy. You've never watched it? I've never seen it. I've never seen it either. It's such a good show. So your show, is it complicated? because I know it's complicated on the nighttime talk shows about booking guests.

47:23There's, you know, well, you can't do this show after this show or you've got to leave a couple of months. Oh, yeah, there's some of that. Yeah, I'll bet. And I don't want to get you in trouble or make you uncomfortable, but that is part of the job is trying to negotiate the, you know, the guests, right? Because certain shows want certain guests and then you have to kind of wait your turn or there's a hierarchy, yeah? I'll bet. Well, I don't know if it's a hierarchy as much as you do have to do legwork, reaching out to people and engaging with them about being on your show and why, you know, you never tell them like, this is what I'm going to ask you or I won't ask you this.

48:02But, you know, sometimes I think everybody has different pitches about the experience of their show. So for me, I would tell people, we're going to give you more time. We want to explore more than just the news of the day. I want to go take a walk with you or cook with you or run with you or whatever. Which is a little bit different than other shows. My show's also newer. So some other shows are like, I've been around for a long time and my viewership is whatever it is. Everybody has different pitches. But you've got to do some legwork on it and do your homework. I mean, I'm always, because I've been all sides of the pitches of things, I always laugh.

48:35I mean, I can't even imagine the number of pitches you all get. I don't even know. But people send me emails to pitch being on the show. It's like, have you ever watched the show? I mean, this hasn't been around that long. But they're like things that have nothing to do with what we do. Right. And so, you know, it's from well-meaning PR people. That's completely fine. I respect the profession. But what I've learned is you really have to do the homework and read the 20 articles about a person to say, I thought it was so interesting about this or that or what have you. So, yeah, you got to do it.

49:06But, you know, of course, there's like a little competition about who has who and all that kind of stuff. Right. But if somebody likes to say Andrew Weissman is like on salary, basically like it was, is he told what shows to do or does he get to pick what shows he does? He gets to pick what shows he does. But, but if people watch him all day, oh, he's the best, isn't he? And you do. And you do. And he has a dog named Ennis. I've been to his apartment. We did a whole segment about his apartment. That apartment just shoots incredibly. It's out of this world. I mean, Room Raider must be out of their mind.

49:37He always scores highly with Room Raider. He's got art you can't even see in the apartment. I know, he's got the metal staircase. You know you've got good art if you're not showing it. You know what I'm saying? I mean, no, he picks. But people book people up. They kind of lock them in if they know. Because the legal story is going to be big for a while, it seems. That's my most diplomatic way of saying it. Do you get to decide your fill-in when you go on vacation? You get to decide who takes over for you? Or does that come from the high up? Yeah, I think so. I think you kind of have a conversation.

50:06I haven't missed a show yet, so I don't know yet. yeah all right well you can go on for oscar an oscar an oscar for me listen jen sake you've taken up way too much of your time we love you like two minutes damn it i want to say i want to leave with with this jen because i really mean it i want to say thank you for always imbuing the idea and the sense that every human being should be treated equal and you've always said versions of that throughout your entire career. I don't understand who wouldn't be for that idea that all human beings should be created equal. But so thank you for all of us. You've always seemed to be a very decent person.

50:48Thank you. I believe that. I mean, in a lot of ways, I don't see myself as a partisan or as a Democrat, even though I've worked in Democratic politics. I see myself as somebody who believes in kind of morally what is right and not justifying discrimination. and that is what gets me. It came across. Well, you're very exciting to listen to and to watch because of your intellect, your, and your, you know, some people can have an intellect, but they're kind of old and stodgy. There's a current, there's a relevance to your sensibility about things and your way in which that you articulate that is always exciting to listen to.

51:29So thank you. Thank you so much. So great to meet you. Huge fan. Happy third birthday. Thank you. And good luck with the show. We'll keep watching. Thank you so much. Thanks, Jen. Bye. What about that Jen Psaki? Jen Psaki. I love Jen Psaki. Anybody with a silent P. Especially with, she should open the sushi place, right? Jen Psaki. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I saw that coming from a mile away. And Jay, she was on your list for a while, right? She was, yeah. But, you know, I mean, I've got a lot of – I don't push for the political folks because I know we try not to get too political on this show. But, man, I've got a long list of folks.

52:14Maybe I should start a different podcast. One on the side, right? But, yeah, I'm fascinated with all that political stuff, especially now. and I love the way she said Sean in sort of in answering your question at the end when you were talking about just about this idea that she's not trying to be one way or the other like in fact if anything she just wants to come across as very bipartisan oh nice bye she works for Joe Biden are you still don't harmonize you can't harmonize the bye smart Smartless.

53:00Smartless. Smartless is 100 % organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbaco, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Armjalf.

53:17Smartless. This episode was recorded on July 11th. Thank you.