"Joaquin Phoenix"

0:05Hey everybody, welcome. Do you love comedy? Do you love to laugh? Well, buckle up because you're gonna fucking cry your eyes out welcome to smartless hi everybody oh sean what a nice top you have on this morning yeah let's look what's it say i can't read it it says it says smartless and then it's Hayes 20. It says Hayes on the back. So Hayes 20, what does it say, 22 on the back? 26, 26. 26, that's your birth date, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's a Smartless shirt. You can get, so we're going to get the freaking merch plug right at the top. Yep, right there. It's right there. I'm wearing it.

0:59It's good to know that we make it in a double XL too. Yeah, good for you. You know what I mean? It's good. You got both boobs stuck right in there. Yeah, right? Bang, bang, pow, pow. How's everybody feeling? Is everybody a little sleepy today? Yeah, a little sleepy. It's a little early. I could feel that. I could feel that. I, last, yesterday, so I'm in Tech Week. Oh, well, this is probably going to air after we open. Well, what's Tech Week for? What are you talking about? Are you doing a play in New York? Are you busy doing something? At the Tabasco? So, at the Tabasco Theater. It's so spicy, this show, y 'all.

1:33You've got to go check it out. It's hot. It's hot. Anyway, the Belasco Theater, David Belasco was the owner. And this I just found out yesterday. I couldn't wait to share it with you guys. Actually, last night. Because we're working like 12, 14-hour days, whatever it is. Oh, that's hard. Well, I don't know how many hours, but it's long hours. A lot of good work. Seems like you do know him. Yeah. And so this crew guy comes because everybody has these stories because there's an apartment on top of the theater. The crew now? What's that? Oh, the crew guy. The crew guy, yeah. The crew guy, there's an apartment on top of the theater.

2:06I came and I'm like, oh, you guys got a screw guy. All right. I'm like, screw guy, please. And they just sent one over right away. They sent one over the screw guy. So the screw guy gets there. Oh, speaking of which, Scotty got his cue. He walked by just as I said, screw guy. I like seeing Scotty go by, just shuffle by in his shorts. And there he goes. So anyway. Okay, so the screw guy told me about this story because it's supposed to be haunted and blah, blah, blah sometimes. And so David Blasco, who owned the theater years and years and years ago, there's this apartment on top of the theater that's now abandoned and nothing's up there.

2:40But he used to live there and there was an elevator shaft where he used to bring up, you know, lady friends over and over, right? And so one of the ladies fell through the elevator shaft and died. It's now like boarded up and people say, and they call her lady in blue because people say they can see her in the seats sometimes. How do you fall through an elevator shaft? I guess it was open and there was no elevator. I guess. I don't know. Boy. There was an episode of L.A. Law once. I'm not making it up. Where the guys, I swear to God, it was on the, I just saw a clip of it recently, and they're having a conversation by the elevator door, and this woman speaks really tersely to the guy.

3:14She's like, so you better watch out, blah, blah, blah. The elevator door is open. She walks into the elevator shaft and plunges to her death. And the guy's like, oh, my God. It was on TV. Sounds like a, and that writer's room was like, how are we going to, what are we going to do in this episode? How are we going to? Doors open, and she just falls through, just like the lady in blue. Sean, have you hit fuck it yet on this play? So, I mean, it's a long run, right? It's been taxing for both Jason and me. It's been a lot. But you haven't even started performances yet. You've been whacking away at it for how long now?

3:50You've already done it in Chicago for months and months and months. Yeah. Now, because it's so good and was so well received, you take it to New York, to the hot and spicy Tabasco, and you're in rehearsals right now. you haven't gotten to the point of like, it's enough. No, I mean, you're discovering new things about it every day, right? Yeah, you do kind of. The surprise guest just mentioned, just messaged us and said this is really interesting. Interesting, so maybe we should just start.

4:23Wow. I think he, it's a he, has got comments on this too. Should we get right to him? Yeah, I guess so. I mean, by the way, should we mention the play is open now? Yeah, I guess the play is open now by the time we recorded this. The play is open now in New York at the Belasco? Wait, what's the play called? Okay. And did I like it on opening night? You would love it. It's called Goodnight, Oscar. Okay, there it is. All right, Goodnight. Is there a comma in there? There is after night. And Goodnight, I didn't know, is two words. I thought it was one word. And if you find yourself at the theater, watch out for a gaping shaft.

4:57Oh, boy. I'm just saying. I love that. We got to put that on the Sean list. So you thought goodnight was one word. I did that. Didn't you think it was one word? Probably not. Just like good morning. Has good morning ever been one word? You know what else, listener? Hang on, Sean. Listener, Sean was shocked to learn that John F. Kennedy was not shot in Washington, D.C. You said that on the last episode. Because it's stunning to me. You know what else, listener, is stunning about Sean? He was really surprised that Beatles, the group, the band. No. I'm not the only one that thought, that didn't know, meant beat on a drum.

5:41B-E-A-T. Sean, I'm just noticing you're in your place in New York right now, and you guys, you've been there for a month now, but you don't, in the last couple of years, you haven't spent a ton of time there. No. But in that back shelf there, did you guys go to knickknacks or us and just load up on the knickknacks? It's a real Chachki Haven. It's such a busy... Hey, knick-knack paddywhack. Look at your spider fern, too, up there on its own little... That's nice, though. You're doing real well. That's totally so nice. All right, quiet down. Here comes a respectable guest. All right, we've got a fella.

6:12Listen, this fella doesn't do this, okay? He doesn't do it at all. He's trying to keep quiet and do his work. And while I haven't asked him, my bet is that he's dreading this and that he's thrilled that a full six minutes and 15 seconds are already over without him having to talk. My job is to make this as painless and breezy as possible, and I need your help, men, because this is a Grammy award-winning artist from Puerto Rico, and he's got a black belt in karate. Okay? What? Most folks, however, know him as one of the best actors of our generation, so please say hello to actually one of the kindest, warmest, friendliest, most humble fellas I know.

6:52Let's welcome Joaquin Phoenix. Oh, my God. Whoa. Come on. Wow. There he is. There he is. Oh. Good. Hi, everybody. Hi. Hi. Wait, you're in a trailer, aren't you? Are you in a trailer? Yeah, so I'm on set. Ah. Oh, for the Joker, too. Yeah. So I'm listening to the Jenny. You guys are on Jenny Power right now. Exactly. Oh, that's the generation. Now, so then this is your lunch hour? No, we're actually shooting kind of splits. So, you know, we're going to start in a little bit. so I just came up a little early. The beat from Beatles, is that really for beat? Like drums? See? See, you dick. Yes, that's exactly right.

7:36I was in the impression that had to do with the beat poets. Oh. Oh, I didn't even think about that. But no, it has to do with the beat. I thought it was the buzz. Sean, real quick, because Joaquin mentioned it, tell Tracy what splits are. I have no idea. Oh, bless him. Bless him. They don't do splits on Will and Grace. No. It's always sensible. The best hours in all of showbiz. Which is like, it is the best. So splits, listener, is when you start at noon and you end at midnight. As opposed to if you're going to shoot full nights, you start when the sun goes down and you end when the sun comes up.

8:14Splits is kind of a half-day, half-night shoot. Yeah, that's perfect. Yeah, that's perfect. Walking, I don't even know where to start, man. I don't know you at all. We've never met, and I'm such a fan. Honestly, it's just, yeah. And I guess let's do it kind of like how we always, what I want to know was, what was the, first of all, because you've done so many amazing characters and so many great movies, but what was the first, your first memory, like your first job that you did? First job I did was a guest starring spot on a TV show called Seven Brides for Seven Brothers, which my brother River starred in.

8:52and they were shooting in Northern California. And I think just by default, I think just because it was easy to get somebody local, me and my sister played the small part in the show. And I think that was probably my first significant job. The one time I worked with River, were you not in it too? We did the thing about the Kennedys. we played like young Kennedys. Yeah. What was that? I forget what it's called. Anyway, it was like a movie of the week or something like that. Oh, Robert F. Kennedy and his times. Did you play one of the, because you were so small, you probably couldn't even talk then, or maybe just barely, because we were like, we were 10 or 11 or something like that, weren't we?

9:43Yeah, I was six or seven. No, I don't remember that. I vaguely do now that you mentioned it. Like out in Massachusetts or something. But I think the very first thing I did was that spot. Yeah. And then so the acting to you, I'm not going to hammer you with your freaking method and all that stuff because I know you hate talking about that as do most. I don't know what it is. I know, exactly. It's just, well, that's what people ask me. No, I like that. I guess my question is, when did you get a sense that this acting thing might be a really comfortable thing for you to do and not something that's going to be a lot of work?

10:26You know, that it's not going to be like hammering nails? I wouldn't say that it's very comfortable, but I certainly don't care about that. I mean, I'm not looking for something that's comfortable. I'm looking for a unique experience. Yeah, you get it, though, right? But when you see, like Joaquin, when you see an actor talk about their process and we've all seen it and people get into it and they want to like focus. First of all, I remember doing this thing once and somebody was asking it like about, so we were doing BoJack Horseman and I got kind of, I think I was kind of a dick, but they were like asking about the process and I said, why is everybody so obsessed with how the sausage is made?

11:11Why can't they just enjoy the sausage, right? Like it's not that interesting. and, and, but, but, but then I see like, like, you know, these actors who talk, you spend a lot of time and you see them in these interviews and they're talking about their process and stuff. And I'm kind of like, okay, man, like if you want, you want accolades for what you're doing and you want us to applaud the way you did it. Like, uh, it seems a little self-serving. You have to forgive like everybody when they're doing an interview. That's true. Because you're just, like, it's impossible, virtually impossible not to be an asshole when you're doing an interview.

11:47At least for me. It's my experience. I mean, everybody fucking sounds stupid. That's true. There's just not a good way to come across. And oftentimes, like, a lot of those quotes are from, like, when you've flown to go to, like, a film festival in Europe. Yeah. And you're jet lagged. And you have, like, a hundred interviews. Yeah. And you start off just going, like, I'm not going to do any of that shit. and within 30 minutes, you're just like, whatever it takes, just get me the fuck out of here. I'll say anything. So like, yes, I read quotes or see interviews and I go, what a twat. And I go, I've done so much worse.

12:22So I always feel like you have to give people like... I think you're, I'm with you on that. And that's totally fair enough. And yeah, like the interview and or junket process is one of the worst sort of, you feel your soul leaving your body and you think like every word you say, You're like, God, I hate myself so much for what I just said. And you're trying to come up with different ways to answer the same freaking question. You end up backing into a dumb answer. I think that what I meant was more that there are people, it seems like they go out of their way to consistently talk about that. And you're like, okay, that's what I was referring to.

12:52However, having said that. Yeah, I mean, maybe, I don't know. I always think like whatever it takes, whatever works for you, it doesn't really matter. And, you know, I understand there are some rules that it feels like it requires you to... Okay, for me, every time I work, I know that I'm going to experience, like, an ungodly amount of humiliation. It's just how it's going to go. There's no way that I can get through it without being humiliated. and I think that's part of like letting go in some ways, right? Because it's kind of stupid. Like what we do is stupid. Yeah. Yeah. And like surrendering to it.

13:41It is embarrassing. And like it's really difficult to do some things because if you actually step out for a second and you're like objective and you look at yourself, you just cringe. It's so fucking embarrassing and stupid. So sometimes I understand, like, you have to, I find that I have to, like, rush right into it and just go, like, just humiliate me right now. Make me feel like nothing. And so that I'm willing to do this thing because if I really think about it, I'll just be so embarrassed that I won't be able to do it. It's like the stand-up comic that goes out there on purpose and tries to bomb, you know, like to sort of rip off the Band-Aid and just like, I'm up here, I'm exposed, here are the jokes, or here's the non-joke, and that almost becomes a performance of just raw vulnerability and let's all get in it together.

14:36I always find incredibly admirable. Well, Sean said, Sean, you mentioned like surrender. There is that moment where you do have to surrender, and I think that you do, like I watch you do all these characters in these movies over the last number of years. And I always, when I think about someone like you, I think like there's a guy who's like sensitive to the material. He's like, I would never want to be like, hey man, how did you do this scene? I'm like, he did a scene how he did the scene. You understood the material, you took it in, you were sensitive to it. And then you just like worked with the material that you were given.

15:08And that was your interpretation. That was your collaboration with the material. Like full stop. Right. And it's also like, you know, journalists, critics, reporters, whatever. just kind of doing just enough of their job to get you to fill in the blank. Yeah, that's true. You know, with no thought behind it. I can't stand that. So how did you lose the weight for Joker? Here he comes. Here he comes. What about, do you remember when you were growing up, you guys lived a very sort of atypical adolescent like I did as well. how much of it do you remember do you remember what the policy was in your house about well devices didn't exist back then but TV or was it the kind of house where go outside find a rock find a stick and entertain yourself like it kind of was in my house yeah I don't think we really had a TV until you know until it was probably I don't know 11 or 12 or something like that I don't know maybe a bit younger or maybe because we'd been working by then.

16:17But certainly when I was very young, I don't think there was even a TV in the house. But we did, there were five of us, right? So it's easy to entertain yourself when there's five kids, right? Same. And my dad was always really amazing at finding houses to rent that were always like, you know, in LA, you can live, Like we grew up in the valley for a lot and there's houses that are like government land, right? There's just like mountain ranges, right? Like that's in the backyard. So suddenly you could go there. And so that's what we enjoy doing, right? Just playing games and using our imagination.

17:00So that's what I remember. And now a word from our sponsor.

17:09And now back to the show. forgive me i don't know uh joaquin were you so you mentioned growing up in the valley so were you born in la like that was no born in puerto rico oh that was true yeah i was born in puerto rico oh really that was true um yeah we let's see i think first we lived in uh when we came to the to the station puerto rico we were in florida and then my my mother uh was college roommates with Penny Marshall. Oh, Penny Marshall, yeah. Oh, wow, really? Yeah, and Laverne and Shirley was very popular at the time. And my brother and sister, my older brother and sister, River and Rain, would, my brother wanted to play guitar very young.

17:57And they would perform at, like, talent shows and stuff. And they were, like, winning these talent shows. Oh, wow. So I think they felt like this, like, just this curiosity and natural progression towards like something in the entertainment field. My parents didn't really have a lot of experience with it, right? So I don't think they really knew, but I think that it seemed that the kids had, I don't know, I don't really want to say talent, but whatever the fuck it was, right? Yeah, yeah. Some kind of like creative spark. Yeah. And I think they wanted to support that. And so my mom actually reached out to Penny Marshall and said, we were thinking of coming to Los Angeles and would you meet the kids?

18:42And I think she said, don't, don't come out here. You can imagine, like, somebody called you, like, from your past. Like, you went to college, like, hey, are these kids? Will you come out and work? Will you meet them? And Penny's like, let me stop you there. No way. Please, please don't come out. I think we packed up the next day. and I went to LA. And, yeah. That's fucking crazy. So what were your parents doing at the time that they're like in, I think you said Florida, like what was going on? My dad did like manual labor. Like he was like the groundskeeper for this wealthy man. I think it was like a recording producer.

19:27I can't remember his name. and there was a little guest house on the property where we lived. Wow. And my dad took care of the grounds and my mom was raising us. And then we went to Los Angeles. My mom started working at NBC for this amazing casting director named Joel Thurm. Joel Thurm, that's right, at NBC. And she worked there and my dad took care of us, took care of the kids. and we met Joel. By the way, let me stop you there just for one second. So Joel Thurm, for the listener and for you guys, if you guys, Sean, you may have met him, but maybe he was gone by then. But this was the office where when you were going in to do a network test, which for the listener, that's the last step before you get a series as an actor.

20:17And when you get a series, you're employed for years and years and it's like winning the lottery. It's a high stakes thing. So that last audition, that last meeting in that office, is Joel Thurm's office. So Joaquin's mom was on his desk. She was sitting at the desk right there where you're sitting waiting, just like dying with anxiety right before you're supposed to go in there. And it was like, to me, it's carved into my memory. That office, that lobby, that section right there was where most of my anxiety started as a child. So you're saying Joaquin's mom. You're still saying Joaquin's mom.

20:53No, no, but she was this ray of sunshine. And she would, every time I'd run into her, we'd have a very nice, warm hug and smile. I love that. Yeah, she's amazing. Wait, so Joaquin, so everybody was in it. Everybody was kind of in it or around it, yeah? Yeah, and so we would go and visit, and Joel was always just so sweet. Like, he would just set us up in his office, and we would watch. that's probably where I remember really being exposed to like TV and shows, TV shows, was in Joel's office because we would watch all the reruns. He had every tape of every NBC show. Wow, that's so cool. And it was just like the best time going there.

21:38And yeah, and I think we tried to do, I think he actually arranged for us to do a um like some recording like a test to see if we could do like a show as a family right it was like the partridge family or something i guess some shit like that and uh and yes he introduced us to iris burton who was like the child actor agent yeah um and the only one that would take all five of us because we'd met other it was a package deal and they'd be like i'll take those too i think that she was like i'll take them all uh-huh wow wow and so and so your your interest in acting didn't really come as much from watching tv or watching movies because you guys didn't do a ton of that when you were growing up in the house it was it kind of came from once you moved to los angeles and you started to get this initial exposure to it yeah i mean i think it just was an extension of the games that we played like my dad was a fucking ham yeah like he would do these skits like all the time and again because we didn't have tv we just basically did like plays um so we would just make up these these kind of scenarios um and play them out play dress up and you know shit like that so i think it just was an extension of that um and then i remember being on set you the energy on a set is like unmatched it's incredible right there's just like a hundred people that are all like brilliant in their own specific kind of craft um right so you've taught people that it's like incredible what everyone does right and there's such a everyone in the best case scenario everyone's really excited about what they're doing and they work really hard to kind of create this world and that's a really interesting energy and it's fucking fun as a kid.

23:39You know, it's like, it's so exciting to be on a set. So there was something that was just really enjoyable about it. And then I remember the first scene that we did in this TV show in Seven Brothers and one of the characters, Peter Horton was the actor. And we'd been friends with them, you know, because we'd been there on set. And suddenly we're in the scene with him and he's meant to get into a fight with the boyfriend of the woman that played our mother. And they get in this, like, fight, and they're rolling around on the ground. And, like, to an eight-year-old, shit felt very real, right? And he was like, our friend, so we were worried about him.

24:24And I remember being, like, overcome with this emotion at what was happening. And I distinctly remember, like, physically buzzing from it. and it was such a powerful feeling um because it wasn't real it was safe but like i i like had this feeling coursed through my body um and i was like i want more of that yeah like it was so fucking exciting um and nothing has ever given me that that feeling like you're obviously safe because you're doing multiple takes. It's not the end of the world. It's a fucking movie. But it can feel so dangerous. You know, you feel like so much pressure because you're committing something and it's going to be around forever.

25:17Yeah. And there's something that just feels like really exciting about that to me still. That's so interesting. Hey, Joaquin, did you do any comedy? You're always funny in what you do. Even if it's a drama, you'll find the comedy because you play but no like a pure have you ever done like a pure again forgive me have you done like a pure pure comedy i remember i remember seeing you in and to die for and i thought that was darkly funny i thought that was darkly funny yeah oh yeah yeah yeah yeah with uh nicole kiddo yep i love that was uh i think in the 90s right was that was that a great experience it was a great experience um yeah well i i hadn't uh the last film that the The last acting that I'd done was when I was, I don't know, 14 or 15 in a movie called Parenthood.

26:01And then we moved out of Los Angeles. We moved to Florida. And I had basically given up acting. Yeah, I didn't think that I was going to act again. And then my brother really encouraged me to start acting again. and he was actually going to make a film and he wanted me to play his brother. And I think that kind of sparked my renewed interest in it. And then, yeah, Tadai For came up and I remember going and auditioning for it. I read that script and I instantly had an idea of what I thought the character was and went and auditioned for it. And I was always really fortunate. The directors that I worked with, a lot of them just didn't have ego and weren't desperate to micromanage and control and really encouraged me to bring my ideas to it and to discover it.

27:09I remember it really started with Ron Howard on Parenthood, and I was surprised at how curious he was about my thoughts and feelings about the character. I didn't know that that was allowed. And Gus was, you know, the same thing where I remember him just saying, like, it doesn't matter. Like, things don't have to go right. Like whatever happens is a part of it and it's okay. So don't worry about like any kind of rules in some ways. And there's a thing that you learn as a kid that you're supposed to pride yourself on, which is like hitting the mark and finding your light and knowing your lines.

27:58And I think that all of that stuff is like really dangerous because it just like leads to things being flat. like when everybody is just like hitting their marks and we know what's going to happen take after take you just like it's just human nature like inevitably you just follow it fall into something being like just wrote and I think it lacks like an energy and excitement and we're in this like unique position where you can do multiple takes so why not take advantage of it and you know let it be something different each time within reason. And those are things that I learned from my early experiences.

28:41Like it's okay. I think because films are so expensive and there's so many moving parts, we like to try to control it as much as possible. Where do you sit on that? Because I battle with this as an actor and also as a director sometimes about how much you should just sort of pay attention to the natural thing of it or how much you should adhere to the technical specifics of that particular shot. For instance, let's say the camera angle is really tight on you and you're sitting down and in the middle of the line, you have to stand up. And because you're in a real tight shot, the cameraman asks you to stand up kind of slowly.