"Josh Brolin"

24:17I met with the head of the care center. I met with like the five heads, the psychology head and all that. And I said, I really want to live in here as one of these people for a couple of weeks. can you not tell anybody else that I'm actually not one? I want to see if I can pull it off. And I remember that like after the second day, there was somebody, I was smoking or something or trying to smoke or put a cigarette in my mouth and a nurse came up to me and she said, Josh, you can't, you're not allowed. And she was screaming in my ear and I wanted to say, shut the fuck up. She's like, I'm acting.

24:52Okay, I'm acting. She bought a ticket to the opening night, yeah. There was the head of the psychology there, he hated me and he hated what I was doing. And I was waiting by myself to have my, you know, two cigarettes of the day. And he walked by me and it was just he and I. And he whispered or he kind of like, you know, snarky said as he was walking by, he said, Joe would never do that. I remember I felt a rage. and it was the rage that i felt and then the connection between if joe feels a rage he would never be able to get up so therefore i can't get up and that was what i needed to go play that i love that interesting i love that it's cool have you stayed that that kind of a researching actor or have you found that you know what what you've got what you've absorbed in your life gives you enough of a toolbox to apply to any character that you're attracted to nowadays I think both and I think what I'm going through right now, you know, I've been very lucky to be offered a lot of really nice things recently.

26:02And I think the hunger right now is to kind of go back to 2008 or go back to that theater experience because I miss having to do or feeling like I have to do the research. Well, I'll tell you something about the research. It reminded me, Josh, of a story you told me years ago where you did No Country for Old Men, which is just such a spectacular movie. One of my favorites. Oh, my God. So, so good, and you're so good at it. And I remember we were talking, maybe it was when we were doing Jonah Hex, but you were saying there's that scene early on where you go into, and the motorcycle accident reminded me of this, where you've got to shoot the guy and you take your boot off to level the gun.

26:44Am I remembering that correctly? Yeah, because I had gotten to it. Yeah, yeah, I had gotten to a motorcycle. And you didn't tell them. Tell these guys what happened. No, two days after I got. So I was doing this small movie with Brittany Murphy. And I was having to go from, I had gotten No Country. And there was no way I was going to get No Country. I even read for No Country. And their only response, because I was doing a movie at the time, we sent in the video and their only response was who lit it. So they didn't even comment on my act. They just thought it was really well lit. and then I got in there as the last reading and uh and I got that part you know they asked me that afternoon would you be interested in playing this part and I was like well hold on let me let me let me think about it um and then I got into a motorcycle accident two days later going from one wardrobe fitting to the other and I snapped my collarbone in half and and I called them and I said and I had prepped the doctor I said look you know Ethan wants to talk to the doctor to find out how bad it really is and i told the doctor you need to tell them it's a hairline fracture i tried to become as intimidating as i could possibly become i was like you're not going to be a doctor anymore if you don't say these words in this way um and it turned out that the only reason i was able to do the role was because llewellyn gets shot in the right shoulder had it been the chef left shoulder I couldn't have done it.

28:11So he gets, so we're in the beginning of the movie, he puts the, he's supposed to be standing up and shooting at the antelope and I couldn't do it. I couldn't lift up the, because literally it had only been two weeks since I snapped my collarbone and I was letting it heal naturally. So I called somebody and there was somebody who knew a sniper in Vietnam and how could I hold the gun? I love that you called somebody who knew a sniper. Sure. Yeah, I tend to know those people. Yeah. So, yeah, so that's why the boot is, I took my boot up. And the Coen brothers seemed to like that as sort of a character choice that you would use the boot or was the boot off camera?

28:48No, you see it. No, the boot's on camera. And they liked that just because it was viable. He takes his fucking boot off. Yeah. And then he balances the gun on his fucking boot because he literally can't hold the gun. Yeah, by hands like that. While we're there, before we get to Sean's Dune Fiesta, But anything about the Coen brothers are just, you know, like every other person in this industry. They are my North Star and like they can do no wrong. I just, to work with them, I'm just so like, I'll take anything you can give me about what that experience is like. It's so, you know, it's funny because I've tried to make it, you know, in the past and you're on talk shows and you're like, tell me about the Coens.

29:29Like, tell me a funny story. And there's not, there's so fucking normal. Right. The greatest thing that I, you know, I've done three movies in a short with the Coens. And the greatest thing I ever got from them was after every scene I've ever done, especially in the beginning, with the exception of one story that I'll tell you, I've never, ever gotten a great scene. I've never gotten a thumbs up. Great job. Really? Just the moving on is the confirmation. Literally moving on and looking up and seeing their backs walking away to the next set. No way. So at best, it's like, hey, what do you think?

30:09Like maybe later on I'd go, you know, what do you think of that scene? And they go, yeah. Like basically it's got, we got what we need. Right. And you did your job correctly, which is why we hired you. That was my dad's reaction growing up. That was your dad? There's a trauma in that. He didn't have it. How would you know what his reaction was? Yeah. Unless you could read his mind through the rearview mirror, you know. You could read people's minds from 50 miles away? Woody Harrelson was the only guy who couldn't remember his lines during No Country. And we had that scene in the hospital together.

30:46And he talks the majority of the time. Yeah. And he couldn't get through his fucking lines. And then when finally he did one take where he kind of stumbled through his lines. and then I saw the Coens come from behind set and they looked up and they go, wow, that was amazing. And I was like, you gotta be fucking kidding me. This dude's literally stuttering through his shit. You're holding his cue cards, right? I get nothing, nothing. That's hysterical. They were just happy they got a take, let's be honest, from old wood. Wait, so Dune, so here we go. Here we go. Okay, so wait, so a ride. Is the sand real?

31:23Let's just start. So, okay. I'm so bored. Can I talk about Dune? Do you get sand in your eyes? Can I talk about Dune? No, by the way. Is it real? Is it a real place? Is it a real place? Yes. No, it's one of, No Country for Old Men is one of my favorite movies too. But Dune, I can't get, first of all, Arrival is one of my favorite movies as well. Yeah, me too. Cool, me too. So clever and well made and the script is amazing. God, you work with the best directors. The direction and everything. Tell them why it's, well, why it's connected. Tell Tracy why that's connected, Sean. Oh, because he directed, the same director, directed a rival as Danny Villeneuve.

31:55Danny Villeneuve, right. And so, yeah. And so, so Dune, I kind of have the same. Who also directed Sicario, by the way. Yeah, and you were also great in that, yeah. Maybe top three. Dude, I want to get in, I want to, well, after Dune, I want to get into Sicario because I fucking love Sicario. So, dude, I want to know, just like Jason said, what is like the Ethans? What's it like on that set? Where, I mean, are they sets? Are you really in the desert? Like, how much of it is real? How much of it isn't? Most of it, most of it is practical. Let's just pause the interview right here. Well, because it looks like it's really in the desert.

32:28It does, doesn't it? It's because they've got the funds. What part gave you that impression? Was it the desert? Would they be spending less money if they just green screened the whole goddamn thing? Or would that maybe be a little bit more? It's actually really sweet because he's like full fanboy right now. I'm a massive, massive fan. Ask him to stand up. You can see his pants are off. And you're so good at this. and then have him pan his camera right and you'll see scotty just in full pull mode go ahead next question sean yeah go ahead and finish scotty off with the next one wait so isn't it by the way isn't it wild that you guys had to hold the release because of the strike speaking of holding the release is that what it is yeah was that why yeah and then we and then we went back for reshoots in the first one during the pandemic which we hadn't we did it before the pandemic what is it tell me what it's like working with him and and is it is it as is it the opposite of the ethans of the cohen's i mean well he's also canadian is he not denny he is can't he's french canadian right so he's incredibly kind and probably effusive with his compliments thank you right he's coming up giving you a little high five at the end of a good take he is actually a little yeah but what i was going to say about the cohen's thing is that taught me a great thing and i don't really look for that anymore i don't yeah but i mean what what What he's accomplished in U2 and Dune is like, it's hard to get the tone and the feel and the actors and the script and the sets and just everything works perfectly.

33:58It creates a world that we haven't seen. It's very collaborative, you know, and if I can go back to Sicario for a second, you know, I had turned down because he wasn't really an established director at that point. He had done A Sondi. He had done one American film with Hugh Jackman. What was that film called? Not passengers, not visitors. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. About the kidnapping. And Jake Gyllenhaal, which was actually really good. But I said, I don't know why, because I think it was a really small part. Anyway, to get through this. Was Bob Elswit on board yet? I mean, I think that wasn't MVP.

34:32You mean Deakins. Oh, was it Deakins that did it? It was Deakins. And I had worked with Deakins a couple of times. And it was also Benicio and it was Emily Blunt. And anyway, I said no. I said no twice. and I don't know why, but, and he called me and he said what every director says and lies about, which is we're going to expand this role. Right. Like what it is right now is not really what it's going to be. And you're like, well, you're full of shit because I've heard that from everybody. But the truth is, and whether it was just kind of happened this way because of fate or whatever, you know, it was so expanded and it was so, once we got on set, it was like such a vibe that all came from him, which was, this isn't working, so let's work on this, or I'm going to knock on your trailer door.

35:20Benicio doesn't want to talk anymore. He thinks you should talk because you like to talk. And I'm like, I'm a different fucking character, but we need this exposition. How can we make it behavioral? So on and so forth. So it became a very, very collaborative process. So that's what I get doing. Denis is my good friend now, but he's a guy who I would work on anything with because that kind of collaborative effort to me is the top. But Sean points out, like, Sicario, you know, is about a world that exists, right? Like, it's a reflection of this real world. Maybe height, maybe not, I don't really know.

35:53But, like, of this thing. Things like Dune, as Sean pointed out, it's world building, right? It's creating a world. It's creating a whole thing. That's so hard to get right. Yeah, no kidding. Yeah, but there was a guy, Zev Borough, who I know from New York, and he's my good buddy. and he read through that whole series three times when he was a kid. So he knows it as well as anybody, as well as Denis does. And when he saw the movie, I kind of snuck him in in Santa Fe when I saw the first one, and there was a pause after the movie ended, and this guy's a 48-year-old guy, and he stood up and he started screaming, Yes!

36:29That's it! Yes! Fuck yes! That's great. What do they call him? His nickname is Zeb the Virgin, right? I mean, he ran through all three. Zev the Verge. Wait, now that you've had all the success and you've been working for so many years and you told us the story about how, you know, your dad had money then didn't have money, had money then didn't have money. And so it kind of left you in a weird place probably growing up. How are you with money now and handling it? Are you more responsible and you try to teach your kids about the responsibility of money? Yeah, it's an ongoing subject. about where we live and what that promotes and what that, you know, given that I grew up on a ranch, given that we have a ranch that's three miles away from the ranch I grew up on, but I take my kids there a lot.

37:18I take my kids right now. They haven't been to the set very much, but I take them wherever we shoot. You know, I have a 30-year-old, a 35-year-old, a three-year-old and a five-year-old. That's crazy. Wow. So now what, what kind of, what kind of grandfather What kind of father's skills does he have? What kind of grandma skills does Babs have? I mean, what are these family get-togethers like? You know, there's a real, for lack of a better word, hard-on for my kids, my young kids with said grandparents. Yeah, and really quick, just for my sister, and I'm just saying this for my sister, Josh. No, you're not.

37:57Your dad is James Brolin who's married to Barbra Streisand. Correct. Really? Yeah. This also made news. It's amazing. That's it. Fuck go, Dad. It's for my sister and for my sister Tracy. But they're keyed in on these two. Is it different than the first two kids? I think so. I think my first two kids definitely, you know, they laugh at it now where they were like, you know, we're still here, by the way. but the young kids are very cute and i think that they're at an age now where things have slowed down enough where you start to appreciate those familially etc etc right yeah yeah yeah that's great what what would you say is the biggest difference between your fathering on the first two versus the the the second two um what what yeah Yeah.

38:51You've got a little lighter blend on your hydration this round? I mean, that's just the fucking truth, man. I mean, I was in and out and that kind of thing. But, you know, I mean, and I think it's okay to say this, even though it's an anonymous program. My son's sober. My daughter's married to a sober dude. That's great. My wife's sober. I love that. I love that. Right. So they learned a lot from your mistakes or your— Hopefully. Yeah. In all honesty, you know what I mean? I think we were all pretty open. I tried not to let the thing cross over, and it did cross over a few times, and we talk about it, but it's a very open dialogue with us.

39:30When you mentioned about you getting kicked out at 16 years old because of your mouth and stuff, do you recognize the signs in any of your kids that they kind of might repeat the same behavior that you did when you came out? No, because I think mine was so extreme that it was definitely a warning light. Yeah. As opposed to, let me try and emulate that to see if I can pull that off. Uh-huh, right, right. We'll be right back.

40:01And now, back to the show. You know what's funny, Josh? The other day I was reading this story in the Wall Street Journal. These guys don't know what that is. but there was a story about weed. There was a story about weed, and it was saying how they've seen an uptick in kids having psychotic breaks as a result of cannabis as compared to 10, 20 years ago. So I send it to my ex. I text it to Amy, like, immediately. And she goes, why are you sending me this? And our older sons are 13 and 15. And I go, because weed is very readily available, and there are things around, and blah, blah, blah. and I'm very nervous about it.

40:42Like I just had this like, you know what I mean? But I understand. It was like, remember back in the 70s? I remember I was a friend of my dad's in Paso Robles and I like was on the floor or something and I looked under his bed and I found a drawer of pot and I rolled it up in some writing paper and tried to smoke it when I got home when I was like eight or nine. But even if I was able to smoke it, the high would have been, you wouldn't have been that high. Right. You smoke a full joint nowadays, you got to call your mom. One hit nowadays. Yeah. Oh, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before I got sober, I remember I loved the idea of dispensaries, and I loved the idea behind the science in it all.

41:21And I was like, what does this do? And where does this? And how do you make this? I'm in it for the science, too. Yeah, I know. I get it. But there was a guy, he was from Poland, and we kind of would go through this whole thing, and I would pretend like I didn't smoke because I didn't really love smoking very much. And then I would give it to my friends. But then one night I was home alone and I was supposed to read this essay that my daughter had done. And I went outside and I was like, well, maybe I'll try it. I'll just try a little bit. And I took a little hit and I got too much smoke. And then I coughed it out.

41:54And by the time I had exhaled, I was convinced that there were crosshairs from across the building on my head. And I was slowly lowering behind my, you know what I mean? Far me crawl back into the house. Yeah, and then I tried to read the essay, and I read the same first line about 125 times. And that was one hit, man. Right. So I get it. He needed to get into the edibles. It's heavy duty. Whatever. Sean, I love it when Sean gets on. I love it. Well, Jason, his book is coming out, and it's about edibles. But he's written the first line 120 times. Sean, when Sean gets on weed, it is my favorite.

42:36When you take, gets on weed, who's old? But when Sean smokes weed or takes an edible, it's the funniest. It makes me laugh, Sean. Well, I get like tunnel vision. As he's getting to the hospital. I get spurts of little energy. But wait, like when I was a kid, I was so afraid of doing anything wrong. Like I was, I remember I was scared about having a library book out too long. And I thought I was going to get in massive trouble. Where does that come from where you're like, yeah, I'll try this, I'll do this, I'll get in this trouble, I'll beat the shit out of this kid, I'll smoke this stuff? I never beat the shit out of a kid.

43:11I was never that guy. Bullies, maybe, but I was never, even though we all fought a lot. But that was the culture. That was the culture that I grew up in, in punk rock and all that kind of stuff, back when parents were doing blow instead of parenting. Imagine what a bummer it would be to get into a fight with Brolin. It would fucking suck. At any age. I'll bet at eight he could really square you up. He is. I went over there. I went over to Brolin. Remember, I came over to try your cold punch like five years ago, and we got in the fucking cold punch, and he's a couple years older than me. I was like, look how fucking stacked this motherfucker is.

43:41Yeah. How old are you, Josh? He's like such a baby. You can see here he's just cut to ribbons. Are you in better shape now than you've ever been in your life? I'll bet you are. I was in better shape during Dune than I've been in in a very, very long time. I think when I did Deadpool 2, I think that's the best shape I've ever been in. You look great in Deadpool 2. Sean, cool it. But did you still do the martial arts? And have you ever, or would you, and can I promote you and Downey fighting each other? I would do that. I was just with Downey, and we were talking about you two days ago. I'm going to love to set that up.

44:16Wait, can I get in on that, Arnett? Yeah, I'm getting it. Writing down Downey-Brolin fight. Well, let's do it in, do we think Vegas, Atlantic City, or what about Laughlin? Laughlin would be kind of kitschy, right? Remember that, wasn't there like an animated thing, like celebrity fights or something like that. It was like a claymation thing. Yeah, look it up afterwards. It was super fun. I'd like to make that a reality. Oh, that's right. There was a claymation show, yeah. I'm bored with the acting. I want to fuck celebrities out. There's our clip. I would fucking, I am backing you, Brolin. You're my fucking dog in this.

44:52Wait, Josh, do you know Brendan Shanahan? He's a friend of Will's. He's a hockey player. He's a hockey player. Retired hockey player, president of the Toronto Maple Leafs. One of the all-time great guys. So Will and Brendan and I were out to dinner, this was a few weeks ago, and I said to Brendan Shanahan, who's been in, you know, a thousand fights on the ice rink. He holds the record for the most, what they call Gordie Howe hat tricks, which is goal assist and fight in a game. Right. So I told him, I always had this little tiny, tiny, tiny bit of a fantasy of getting in a fight because I've never been in a fist fight, right?

45:23Mostly on the receiving end, right? Just getting beat to shit. yeah literally in hockey fights where you just grab somebody what if you pull my hair right before you yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah like that you know that's that's what it's by the way it's borderline fetish but go ahead no no just because i i don't know i would part of me just wants to know what that feels like and so brendan brendan takes me out yeah so brendan takes me out and grabs me and he's teaching me how to fight and in two and i can't stop smiling because i think It's so funny. And he goes, first of all, wipe that fucking smile off your face and you're going to get into a fight.

46:00And how'd you feel? How'd you feel when he said that? You got scared. Made me laugh harder. Yeah, he's like, stop looking like you're going to enjoy this, goddammit. So he grabs me in some crazy hold in two seconds flat. I can't move my entire body. And he's like, you would be dead. So you'd just beat the shit out of your face. He had his arm wrapped around. And then I would just start filling you in like this. And he just starts going, Sean's laughing. And he did say, by the way, it's at the back entrance of that little back side door behind the polo lounge. There's nothing more elitist than that scenario.

46:34What about MMA kind of stuff? Are you training with that too? Like could you, is that your skill set or is it more martial arts? I think it was. Martial arts no longer. Even though I know like the Gracies have become good friends and through Laird Hamilton and all that. and I have massive respect for them. But no, I think the getting in shape, MMA, you know, Dana White's a really close friend of mine. I love MMA. I've always loved boxing. I didn't think MMA would last or UFC would last and it has and it's incredible. And I get very into it, have a lot of guys come over to my house. We just built this extra kind of MMA barn that we can watch MMA on.

47:15What? What time? What time? I'll invite you. You know what's funny, Josh, Josh, all this stuff, and you do a lot of this stuff, and you're very in shape and whatever, but, you know, over the last couple years, I've noticed, and I think you mentioned going to listen to poetry years ago, but anybody who follows you on Instagram or anybody who gets texts from you, you know, talking about your day or the things that you're grateful for, i.e. gratitude lists, knows that you've kind of, like, veered into that. As much of a guy, you like to sort of mix it up. You've also become quite, and maybe this is just a result of older age and having younger kids again, you've become quite ponderous.

47:59You've become quite, you're really appreciating the world around you in a way that's pretty astounding. I know, I'm going to make out with you now too. He's got that soft, chewy center. It's true, man. You do. Like every day you talk about, and you talk about things, you're really open about appreciating your wife, loving your wife, loving your kids. You're really open about it. And I think there's something super, super, super nice and vulnerable and beautiful about that. Thanks. I appreciate that very much. I don't think it's a new thing, but I think it's ramped up recently because I love the idea of contrast.

48:34And the fact that I'm, you know, that I ride a vintage motorcycle or with a group of dudes or the fact that, you know, I'm perceived as this scrappy, gnarly, whatever, Ultraman. the last man in Hollywood right but then what is the count it should be noted that Josh is smiling when he says that I am smiling that you know I love the idea of contrasting that with because there is an incredible sensitivity and I do love my kids I will be raising I had my first kid when I was 20 and my youngest I'll be 70 when she graduates high school and I love it man I love it in the writing What would be the contrasting thing that would surprise most people?

49:21What is the softest thing that you do on a regular basis? Here's a story, and I don't know if this is the best story to tell, but the story, when we went to Atlanta, and during the pandemic, we kind of moved to Atlanta where my wife is from. And, you know, nothing against Atlanta, but when I got to Atlanta, I realized I was in Atlanta. I didn't realize Atlanta was in Atlanta, so I couldn't stay. but I was sitting there and it's such a nice house and and I'm looking out the window and I see this kind of barrel chested tattooed huge goatee tattoo you know guy uh in the middle of my yard and he's kind of looking up at a tree and and I go who the fuck is that and I open the door and I go hey man and he looks at me and he goes hey and I go yeah what the fuck are you doing in my yard and he looks at me and there's a long pause and he goes i'm your gardener and i go oh fuck i'm so sorry and i went down there and i started talking to him and within 15 minutes and i'm not kidding i'm not exaggerating within 15 minutes here and i are in a total embrace tears falling down our cheeks wow and it turns out that he's 24 years sober he runs the biggest sober biker club that's an international biker club in the world.

50:40That's amazing. He's one of my best friends now. I love that. So I love the idea of this cosmetic thing that you immediately judge and then underneath it is whatever. I love that. Well, the biggest compliment I can give you is I've never met you before. This is the first time and I feel completely at ease with you. I feel like I've known you forever. You seem so open and just normal down to earth and honest. Please put me in a charcoal. I'm sorry, I didn't know. And can you please put me in a charcoal?

51:14Maybe the best time joke of all time.

51:20And I want a spoon with you. You seem like the guy that would be really cool to spoon you. Are you in New York, by the way? Sean, are you in New York? I'm in Los Angeles. You're in Los Angeles. My wife saw your play. I did not, admittedly. But my wife saw your play, which I heard. Please call her. Thank you. You were truly a revelation. Oh, that's very nice. It was, honestly, it was so, no, I know, Sean, fuck off. Fuck off. It was so good. It deserves to get mentioned whenever we talk about it. It was so, so good. Oh, speaking of, Josh, you got any horrible, tragic theater stories? Something that just went horribly wrong?

51:54You know, no, man, but just theater, theater is such a, it's a funny thing. You know, it's like, my experience of theater is like, you fucking people in Hollywood. Right. You're such phonies. You're such fakes. You don't understand the real thing. And then that person, three days later, you'll see it in like an El Pollo Loco commercial. Right, exactly. I'm coming out in March for pilot season. You got an extra bag? Yeah, literally. I find it the most hypocritical society I've ever. You know what I mean? And I love it. And I just wrote a play, and we're trying to get that play done in Ojai, and it's really good.

52:34but I'm reminded again and again how much I hate the theater community. I'm just kidding. I'm totally kidding. He's totally kidding. One of my favorite questions, and we'll let you go, is with all of the incredible set experience that you have and all the incredible directors you've worked with, have you ever been tempted to take all of that which you've cherry-picked from them and sit in the chair yourself and direct something? You know, it's funny you would bring this up, and I'm curious why you would bring it up because I was going to bring it up regardless of whether you brought it up or not.

53:06But I reached out to you when I directed an episode of Outer Range, which is something that I did with Amazon. Yeah. A very strange kind of Western, contemporary Western. And, you know, it's something that I've always wanted to do. I've directed theater. I've never directed. I directed a short, but I've never directed something that was substantial and with money. and I reached out to you and I said - Because you were just thinking about it at the time, weren't you? I was thinking about it at the time and I reached out to you and I said, do you have any advice for me? Which I thought was really interesting.

53:42Like, why would I reach out to you? So obviously my respect for you - Who do you think you've called? No, but I love that I reached out to you and you said a great thing. You were like, don't, focus on the day players. You said, don't forget about the day players. That was one bit of advice that you gave me. But you were so sweet and so kind of, you kind of. And Tracy, the day players are the actors that are doing the parts that are not the starring roles. Maybe one line, three lines. Yeah, sometimes they're cast right from the local city that you're shooting in. And, you know, there's an instinct sometimes for them to potentially overplay their scene because they're only in a couple of scenes.

54:22And sometimes there's a director. Which can take you right out of a scene. Right, yeah. And so it's a director. Which was your point. Right. So how did that go? Really, really well. And I have to say that directing, and I know a lot of probably actors feel like this, it wasn't an opportunity to finally do the thing that I wanted to do that no director wouldn't let me do. But it was more that the myriad interests that I've had in my lifetime that I never really understood all made sense suddenly. It was like I can utilize everything I've ever been interested in and everything that I've wanted to randomly learn and didn't know why now makes perfect sense.

55:02when you're available to somebody in the way that they need you to be available, which changes from actor to actor and staff, member staff, whatever, DP or whatever, and say, how can I be most helpful as opposed to how can I make my mark and use my power because now I finally have it. Right, exactly. Are you thinking about doing it again, perhaps? I think out of that has come a real interest in finding foreign directors right now and finding projects like that and really focusing on another echelon of great directors, and yes. I would like to think that I would further that. I think it would be dumb not to.

55:45I think the only reason why it wouldn't happen is out of fear, and I'm kind of, at 55, I'm kind of done with the idea of fear. But I was going to say, you know, the thing that Jason says to a lot of people and he talks about experience on set, and you've been doing it a long time, you have you do have so much experience and you do have such a point of view and that's important as a director obviously as you all as we all know and i'm surprised that it's not something that you're like actively doing more because you do have such a strong point of view and know how an incredible experience and comfort on a set in order to lead you know but i think i think it's also the fact and i think this has to do with raising kids is you're not afraid to be wrong because you understand that wrong doesn't really pertain.

56:29You just have to make a decision and you have to allow other people to be able to lean on you and stand behind your decisions and know that it's not going to be perfect and know that you're going to have to compensate and know that you may have to fix some things in editing and all that kind of stuff. I just think it's kind of like photography. It's one of those things that you know you'll never master and I love the idea of having to pursue something that you'll never master. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. That's cool. Dude, we could fucking talk to you forever, honestly. I love you guys.

57:01I love this time. Love you, dude. Yeah. Thank you for saying yes and doing this with us. Yeah, thank you. It's been a long time coming. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm a massive fan. Thanks, Sean. You're one of the all-timers, JB. Fucking love you. Miss you, dude. Miss you guys, too. Thank you very much for this time, honestly. Thank you, pal. It was nutritious. Have a great rest of the day. Thanks, brother. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you. See you, Josh. Bye. Bye, buddy. that is, that's a JB. That's a real JB. That's a capital J, capital D. Yeah, if somebody says, hey, show me the best JB you got, I'm wheeling him out.

57:36Sure, sure. And then, like, they'll say, well, second, third, fourth, what else, just as a backup? Yeah, we're going to go lowercase, like more of a beta JB. Yeah, I was like, hey, guys. There you are. What if somebody said, show me a great BJ? And you'd say, how much time you got? I'd say, Sean, let me look at your browser history.

58:01I really like Josh Brolin. He's a sweet guy. He's a normal guy. God, I could talk to him forever. I'm surprised you've never met him before. I never met him before. I'm a huge fan. That's a good dude. Wouldn't you love to be stuck on set with him for a few months? Oh, God, yeah. Super fun. Yeah, I had the pleasure back in the day, when it was a different time, but it was still super fun hanging with him. Yeah, he's one of those guys that's just electric. He is electric. He's really funny and he's really smart and he's interesting and all that stuff. He's well-read. He's just like one of those.

58:33But, Bateman, you've kind of known him, right, on and off for years? Yeah, a little bit. We shared an agent for a little while. Oh, right. Yeah, but I think you know him a lot better. I wish I knew him a lot better. I can hang out with that. We have a lot of friends in common, if you know what I mean, and he's just a fucking... Is he back here in L.A. now full time? Yeah. He was here and then they moved to, like he said, they moved to Atlanta for a bit and then they came back and... By the way, everybody in Atlanta, I love Atlanta, all right? Me too. It'll surprise you every time. He does too.

59:08He was playing it up. He does too and his wife is from Atlanta, her whole family and his sister-in-law and brother-in-law who's a good friend of mine, Jackson, who we didn't talk about, who's a really good friend of mine who lives in Atlanta. Atlanta is a great, great town You and I both had awesome experiences in that town Yeah, I shot a movie that was super hot But it was wonderful The people are awesome, it's a great town, etc But that old, yeah, that JB is I like what he said too when he was like He was talking about how he likes to What did he say, like Contrast? Yeah, contrast, contrast Almost like bifurcate, right?

59:43Like what he's How did you Why didn't you not use the biome bifurcate? You just had Oh How he likes to... We're still rolling. We're still rolling? I think he likes to... You like the way he likes to what? Bye for K. Bye for K. Oh, Sean, great one. You stupid ass. Get over here. I can't believe you blew it. Smart. Less.

1:00:11Smart. Less.

1:00:17Smartless is 100 % organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbaco, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Armjalf.

1:00:30Smart Less. Hi, guys. Hi, guys. Hi, guys. Hi. Oh, Darcy's here. Hi. Guys, we have a friend with us today. We have a friend. Yes, oh, my gosh. It's Darcy Cardin. I know. Darcy. Hello, brothers. Hello, sister. Hi. How are you, Darcy Carden? Good to see you guys. Thanks for having me. Darcy, who everybody knows from a million things, like The Good Place, and you were just on Broadway. We were just on Broadway at the same time. With you, my Broadway brother. Yes. At the exact same time. At the exact same time. Darcy, I apologize. No, no, don't apologize. On Broadway. Don't you dare apologize. I'm so sorry.

1:01:05No, don't apologize. I'm telling you not to. It was a limited run. It was a short one. It was called The Thanksgiving Play. the Thanksgiving play and I heard you were fantastic did you have to, I'm just having visions of you having to go through a full Thanksgiving meal every performance was that what it was? that's what I thought it was going to be before I read it too and I was like god eating on stage what would that be like there was no Thanksgiving meal but we did it was a bloody show oh no, what does that mean? you were just killing turkeys I don't want to give anything away although I did just say it was a bloody show and plus it's not running anymore But it's a beautiful, wonderful, funny play written by Larissa Fast Horse, the first Native American woman to ever have a play on Broadway.

1:01:49Wow. That's cool. But we were truly covered in blood head to toe every night. So we had to like shower. We'd walk off stage and like get in the shower. Now I'm getting it. Not together. Now I'm understanding the storyline. Who said that? But Darcy, we're so excited because Smart List Media has a new show and it's called Wiki Hole. That's right. No blood in it at all, right? No blood. We haven't had any blood. No blood yet. It's bloodless. But WikiHole premieres Monday, March 4th, where we get your podcasts. So we're super excited. Tell our listeners that don't know as much about it as we do a little about what the WikiHole, what's in store for people in the hole.

1:02:25They need to know. They need to know. It's a super fun trivia show. We have a panel of three guests every time. Different guests each week? Different, super funny. The funniest people you know. You're like the best, best, best, funniest actors and comedians and musicians. Some of my best friends, some of my future best friends. It's all really, we've had like amazing people on it. And you basically, what, you have like one subject, one person? We start off with any, like any random subject that you could look up on Wikipedia. Right, a donut. A donut, for example. Right, it's like an improv class.

1:03:04Give me one word from the audience. Yes, totally, totally. And from there. You just, whatever you, if you looked up Donut on Wikipedia, you would find yourself clicking on... Picture of me. Picture of Sean. Picture of Sean, right. And so there's like little, what do they call, hot links inside, spicy hot links inside a wiki page. Delicious. And when you click on those things, it'll take you down another sort of fork in the road in the history of Donut. We may get eventually to a picture of Sean because he's famous for his enjoyment of the donut. Live for Donut. And then we'd get into a wiki. hole that we get into Will and Grace and into parental neglect.

1:03:43All of those things. That's it. That's exactly right. And then it'll get back into Smartless and then it'll get back into Wiki hole and you'll be right back where you started. Will, Will, Will. I don't want to give anything away. I really don't. And you're our tour guide throughout it. Yeah, I'm always going to take you through the hole. That's my job. I've listened to it and it's fantastic. Thanks, Sean. I have too. You're hysterical. Love it. Thanks. I want to play Wiki Hole. How do we? Yeah, I would love you to. Will you? Yeah. Let's do it. Okay, so if we were to start with the smart list hole, there's so many.

1:04:15I could start with anything. You guys have had these incredible careers. You've worked with everybody. You have won awards. But the thing that I keep coming back to is one man's sandwich. Sean. Uh-oh. You have a goddamn tuna fish sandwich for lunch every day. Is that right? Every day. Almost every day. Okay, almost every day. That is psychotic. I had to find out more. So I wickied tuna sandwiches. You're going to have one today, actually. Really? Okay, I might too. And here is our first question, okay? The top of the hole today is going to be tuna fish sandwich. Okay. So for the first question, you each have a chance to list the ingredients, okay?

1:04:55And you're going to get one point per ingredient. Don't freak out, Sean. Don't freak out. I see you're freaking out. Well, it's just going to be there's so many different ingredients you could put into it. Okay, but listen, listen. There are five ingredients listed to make a tuna fish sandwich at the top of the tuna fish sandwich wiki page. So the five ingredients, the most common five ingredients. Mayonnaise. Okay. Celery. Wow, nothing for celery? No, no, no, no. I'm not going to tell you until you all do it. Oh, okay. Yeah, you each say five. Okay, so mayonnaise and celery. Mayonnaise and celery.

1:05:26Some people put mustard in it. Some people put capers in it. Okay. And like hard-blooded eggs. Okay. Can I go now? Yes, please. Tuna fish. Well, fucking idiot. Well, of course. Yeah, guess what? That's one of them. No, you didn't say it. You didn't say it. Well, that's understood. So tuna fish. No, it's not understood. You're out. Have you ever played a game before? Well, you're not going to make a tuna fish sandwich with chicken. It's like going like, oh, I obviously got a touchdown. I'm not going to go get the touchdown. I obviously just assumed that I got a touchdown. So tuna fish, mayonnaise, bread, celery, and pepper.

1:06:09Okay. Pepper. Will, you ready? Yeah. Okay. Tuna fish. Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying this or no. I'm just saying, yeah, you said that. Yeah, no. Yeah. Okay. Bread. Mm-hmm. Mayo. Mm-hmm. Celery. Slower, Will. No, no. He's thinking. Onion. Green onion. Okay. It's personal preference, and that's only four. What's your fifth? No, I think you said, wait, didn't you say? No, it was five. I think you said five. You guys. Guess what? What? Will got all fucking five right. You're joking me. What? I'm not kidding. So say it again. Tuna, mayo, celery, onion, bread. So onion is a required element. Onion is a common, yeah.

1:06:48So hang on, hang on. Sorry, Darcy, I don't want to cut you off because these guys are about to apologize to me. For ridiculous. What? Jason's got something in his mouth right now, but I imagine when he finishes chewing that thing, he's going to apologize for going, fucking, fucking, fucking. White onion or white onion or red onion? Well, it just says onion. It just says onion. That's interesting. I got to try it with onion. Yeah, I bet it'd be delicious. I mean, all your sandwiches sounded delicious, but Will got them all right. Jason got four points and Will, sorry, Jason got four points and Sean got two points.

1:07:18Yeah, Sean, you lose. What? What? We have more. It's anybody's game. All right, so what's the spicy hot link we go to off of this page. Fuck, you know what? Sean, you are a donut. What a zero. Okay, let's keep going. You eat it every day. You don't even know what you're eating. I know what I like. Do you have it really? I don't even know. Sean, what do you put in yours? Tuna. Uh-huh. Don't say tuna like that. Of course you have to put fucking tuna. Tuna, celery, and tons of mayo. Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum. Okay, great, delicious. Dorsey, wait, if you think I'm playing again after I fucking smoked these guys.

1:07:54No, we're not done. You just entered the hole. You have to travel down into the hole now. We have to scale down this gigantic hole. And this is even a small hole for you guys, but usually it's a really big hole. Click a spicy link. I want to get some credit for the restraint. You're getting it. Incredible. Okay, so here's our next question. You will each have a chance to answer this. The closest without going over wins. What percentage of canned tuna in the U.S. is used for tuna sandwiches? Okay, I'm a first. I'm first. And I will say what percentage of canned tuna is used for tuna fish sandwich?

1:08:33I would say 90. Okay. That's my guess. Great. Well, because he said 90, I'll say 95. Okay. Dumb. Should have said 91. Dumb. I'm going to say 40. Okay. Okay. 40. Now, I was shocked by this, but the answer is 52%. So, Will, you fucking got it again. Wow. Jesus. Why is that? Because I bet you some of tuna that's canned is also used for animals, for cats and dogs and shit like that. I didn't even think of that. All I could think of was casserole. Yeah. It's a fucking... By the way, you don't want to keep playing this game with me with these guys. No, no, I bet we do. Let's have a third one. You're going to burst into flames.

1:09:19Let's go. What's the next hotline? Okay, here we go. Okay. Look how bad he is. Okay, here we go. Americans consume one-third of the total amount of canned tuna sold worldwide every year, and yet the tuna sandwich is not in the top three most popular sandwiches in the U.S. You'll each have a chance to guess three. What are the most popular sandwiches? The three most popular sandwiches in the U.S., one point per. Correct. Go ahead, Sean. Go ahead, Sean. Peanut butter and jelly. Sean, you should win this. Peanut butter and jelly. Okay. Like a turkey, like a regular turkey sandwich. No, no, you can't generalize.

1:09:56Be specific. Like, you know, something with turkey. No. Commit. I would have got a touchdown. I'm not going to eat. Why go on the end zone? To walk all the way down there and cross that line. Just say touchdown. Okay, peanut butter and jelly, turkey. Turkey and what's another popular sandwich? Are you asking? And roast beef. I don't know. Okay. That's the question. I would say a hamburger. Okay. That's not a sandwich. I would say a grilled cheese. And then I would say a club. Okay. Okay. Three most popular sandwiches in the U.S. That's right. Here he comes. I would say ham. Some kind of ham, ham and cheese.

1:10:39Well, which is it? Ham or ham and cheese? Yeah. Let's commit. Ham and cheese. Okay. Ham and cheese. Okay. I'll say ham and cheese. Okay. We'll say it. I will say peanut butter and jelly. And I will say egg salad. Okay. Wow. This is a tough one, you guys. If you, I would have guessed peanut butter and jelly would have been top number one. It doesn't even crack the top three. Wow. That's why I didn't guess it. Okay, good. Well, Jason, you got one, which is, I know, which is grilled cheese. Grilled cheese, grilled chicken sandwich, surprising, and turkey sandwich. So, Sean, you got one as well. Okay.

1:11:17No burger, no PB &J. I wonder if they're not qualifying burger as a sandwich. I wonder the same. That's a big debate. Yeah, it is a big debate. They're not. I mean, this isn't the 1940s where you go, I'll have a hamburger sandwich. I'll just have a hamburger sandwich and a cup of coffee. Exactly. I don't like that. Put me through to Murray Hill 234. Yeah, exactly. I don't like that. And keep your sales receipt. Okay, let's jump on down the hole to sandwiches. Let's keep going with this. Wikipedia has a list devoted to American sandwiches The only sandwich whose ingredients are a mystery on this list is the Diablo sandwich.

1:11:53Diablo sandwich. So here we go. You'll each have a chance to answer this multiple choice question. In what hit 1970s movie does someone order a Diablo sandwich? A, love story. B, the Poseidon adventure. Or C, Smokey and the Bandit. Well, I say Smokey and the Bandit. Okay. Poseidon adventure. Okay. I'm just guessing the Diablo. I was going to say five easy pieces because there was that great scene where Jack Nicholson does the sandwich bit. Oh, yeah. I'm going to say love story just so we each take one. I like that move. Sean, you got it. Smoking the bandit. Thank God. If Will had won that one, we would never hear the end of it.

1:12:31He'd be the king hole. That's what we're playing for, to be the king hole. Hole king. Hole king. That was your handle in high school, isn't it, Will? Hole king. Hole king. Hole king. So Sheriff Justice, played by Jackie Gleason, orders a Diablo sandwich. Yeah, it's a very funny scene. I watched it last night. When I get home, I'm going to hit your mama right in the mouth. That was it. You know what he says? Something like that? Yeah, something like that. There's no way you could come from my loins. Good. So who won, Darcy? Okay. Yeah. My little mouse will tell me the score in five seconds, and I'll get a little...

1:13:09You guys, Will is the winner. with six points. Wow. Jason and Sean, you both had five. You were so goddamn close. Wow. Well, what does one get when they win or lose on the wiki hole? You're going to love this. You get a generous donation made in your name to Wikipedia. I like that. Oh, that's good. Which is great, right? Because they're always looking. Yeah, we need that. And you're never actually saying yes. You're always kind of X-ing it up. So now I can feel less guilty for just clicking through that. Yeah. That's exactly right. Very good. Yeah. Okay, guys. I have one more question for you.

1:13:50Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What is Henry Winkler's favorite sandwich? The hoagie? I want to say a shark sandwich. That's what I want to say. But it's still. I'm going to say, you mean the jumping the shark sandwich? Yeah. That's right, you know. I would say the hollowed out bagel. Mm. You think he'd hollow out a bagel? No, I don't want to put my opinion on it. I've had it at his house with him before. Yeah. All right. Okay. Well, to get the answer, we have a very special message from a very special guest. Oh. Hi, Jason, Will, and Sean. It's Henry Winkler with the answer to my favorite sandwich. There are two parts.

1:14:30The first is a tuna sandwich with mayo, ketchup, and finely diced onions on Wonder Bread. Oh. Part two is the day after Thanksgiving sandwich, Wonder Bread again, see the bridge, mayo, turkey, fried stuffing, cranberry sauce out of the can, none of that berry crap, and then Wonder Bread. Hey, Doris, what is it like actually being a guest on the show? And then, you know, instead of just being a question, you know, I had two of them at my dining room table. And the tall one, you know, that third guy, I helped him get his Tony. You know what, Darce? You're on a new podcast, WikiHole. And I could bring one or both sandwiches if I were a guest on that podcast.

1:15:25There you go. What a sweetheart. How great is that? We love it. I love it. I mean, if I could put him in a sandwich, I'd snack on him all day, every day. Oh, he's so delicious. He's delicious. The nicest man in show business. Oh, yeah. I've got an issue with his Wonder Bread addiction, though, darn it. I want him around for hundreds of years. I know, I know. What is it that? But it is delicious. It is delicious. Okay, quickly, I'm going to retrace the whole. We started with tuna fish sandwich, which led us to American sandwiches, which then led us to Smokey and the Bandit, which led us to Henry Winkler and right back to tuna fish sandwiches.

1:16:03I mean, how about one of his sandwiches with tuna fish sandwiches? I love that. I know. He's a smart guy. The full episodes, we go a little bit deeper into these wiki holes. It's super fun. You're going to love it. Play along with us. We can't wait. And my three brothers, I'd love to have you on the full hole. We would love it. See you at the hole. See you at the hole. See you at the hole. So many times I've gotten that. Now listen, this is information. we need to know. It premieres Monday, March 4th, wherever you get your new podcast and new episodes are released every week or you can hear it a week early on Amazon Music or the Wondery app starting Monday, February 26th.

1:16:38Monday, February 26th, you say? Monday, February 26th? Is that what you said? Monday, February 26th, you say. Oh, the 26th of February is when WikiHole is going to start. WikiHole with Darcy Cardin. Is at the end of February, specifically on the 26th, I think. That's right. Is the early week on Amazon Wondery? That's the early week and for everybody on March 4th. I love that, yeah. free wherever you get your podcast. March 4th wide. Darcy, we love you. We can't wait for the new show. Thank you for being part of the family on Smartless Media. You guys, I love you so much. Thank you for doing this.

1:17:07Thank you so much for having me. This was so fun. Bye, guys. Bye. Bye. Bye.