"Kate McKinnon"

0:06Hey guys, now is like the perfect time for me to do some vocal warmups because nobody's around. So, hangy-pingy-pingy-pingy-pingy-pingy. Popcorn, peanuts, get them if you want them. Hey, I got some Twizzlers over here and I got a little payday if you want a payday. Hey, hey, hey, hey, whoo, welcome to SmartLess. SmartLess.

0:38SmartLess.

0:48Let me tell you something. This is why we don't have a video component on this show. I know. What's going on today on top of my head? Don't you dare. You look gorgeous. You look really good. You know who you look like? You look like the star of that very successful new streaming show called Black Rabbit that we all love. That show's amazing. You look like the star of Black Rabbit. Black Rabbit streaming now on? Netflix. Wait, it's not out yet, is it? Well, no. By the time this airs. What's the date, Jamie? Wait, when does it come out, Jay? September 18th. Wait, Jason, that's really exciting. Oh, my God, the show is going to be so good.

1:28I'm very happy with it. We don't need to talk about that. We don't need to talk about it. It's so exciting. I do think it's enough with the London thing and the Long Island thing. Los Angeles and me, my heart, my mind, my eyes, my ears, my chest. Misses the feeling of your chest against it. I know. Please come home. Were you at dinner last night? I was going to FaceTime. Did you go to our FaceTime? No, there was no Sunday Funday. I was going to FaceTime you out of the blue because I know you love it. When's the last time there was a Sunday Funday? Two Sundays ago? Two weeks ago, maybe three weeks ago?

2:02Oh, man. I do miss that a lot. Hot Fudge Funday? Well, say it one more time. Still rolling? Yeah. Hot fudge fun day. Hot fudge fun day. Oh, you did say it right. Because you would have a hot fudge there. Yeah. Oh, you put it together. Hey, thanks. But you brought your own fudge. Isn't that correct? Oh, yeah. Well, around the corner, that's where it's made. I mean, that's a Sean Hayes move. Remember I brought my own fudge to my birthday party? You did. Bless your heart. Yes. You were out of town. No, I brought my own caramel. Yes, you brought your own toppings. Yeah. I brought my own caramel to my birthday party because we went to this place and they were like, oh, they don't have the full arsenal of Sunday toppings on Sunday nights, whatever.

2:40That was nice though. So luckily, our friend Sean organized it very sweetly. JB, you were in Atlanta. Sean, who? No, and then I show up with my, I had it in my pocket, and I did it a little bit for effect because I knew I was going to get shit for it. I pull it out. Sean, actually, you didn't really give me shit. You kind of laughed. Kimmel gave me a lot of shit, and then sure as shit, when the ice cream came out, everybody said, Hey, can you pass it down here? And Camel was first. Was it caramel sauce? Yeah, it was caramel sauce. And I was like, oh, do you want some now, Camel? Wait, Sean, how do you say that word?

3:15Caramel. I say caramel ice cream or caramel swirl, right? I mean, I kind of toggle between the two. How is it spelt? How many A's are there? Spelt. Spelt. Spelt. C-A-R-A-M-E-L. There's two A's, right? I said spelled. I said spelled. You said spelt with a T. I meant, it came out as that. I meant spelled. I know this guy. Please. Wait, spelt is a kind of. It's from the guy who says caramel. Are you fucking joking? He's still, I still can't believe he was shocked that Beatles. What are you saying that is? You're getting thrown out of a moving car. With caramel.

4:00Wait, I have a crazy story. I'd love a new dad joke, too. I've worn out my Hayes can. I can do a lot. I have lots of dad jokes ready. Okay, hurry up, because our guest is probably falling asleep. All right, you want a long story or a short dad joke? Short dad joke. Yeah. Amal and Juan are identical twins, and their mom only carries one photo in her wallet, because if you've seen Juan... You've seen Amal. Boy, that's a long way to go for shit.

4:36I laughed out loud when I heard that Alright Alright we're gonna get to our guest But real first I just wanna say Saw Will's film second time You did? I can't wait to see it Little fucking starstruck when I'm looking at this guy now He's kinda ruined things It's kinda like when I saw you doing your Tony award winning play That you're now doing in London You guys you guys you've got real talent you know you really dumb it down on this show but you both have a little something special in there yeah yeah keep hitting boy that compliment hurts yeah well yeah i like to balance it out but fuck me arnett it's uh listen listener it's called is this thing on triple dot some people say ellipses um but it's uh it's a great film it's coming your way i think towards the end of the year wait so black rabbit comes out in september is this thing on comes out in november december it's like oh december this is like a big deal but if you're at the new york film festival you can see it there in october that's true that's true well thank you thank you thank you um and and if you're in london right now still even now if you're in london you can go at the delacorte at the delacorte theater you can go how about oscar at the chimichurri sauce.

5:54Chimichurri at the Chimichurri stage. At the Delacorte. Barbican. Barbican. What about Oscar? What about that Oscar? What about Oscar? You forgot about Oscar. What is it called? Leave it to Oscar? Leave it to Oscar. Here comes Oscar. Hey, what do you know about Oscar? Leave it to Oscar. All right, listen to me. Guys, quick reminder before the guest, I just want to say tickets go on sale. Friday, September 12th for our Hollywood Bowl night that we're doing. We're very excited about that. Very, very excited. Saturday, November 15th, right, is our show date? Saturday, November 15th, yeah. It's going to be incredible.

6:37Come enjoy the chat and giggle under the stars in a very refined setting there in the hills of Los Angeles. There won't be any fireworks, except on stage, huh, guys? There's going to be a lot of fireworks. Yeah, yeah. All right, let's get into the show, please. Yeah. For your listening pleasure today, we have for you a woman with a real handle on how to make you laugh. But she's not a joke teller. She's an actor of the highest level. Her ability to play characters that are so odd and eccentric. I love characters. It's something you end up watching with amazement and shock as you dab the laugh tears from your eyes.

7:12It's why she's been nominated for every single year she was on Saturday Night Live. I think I've got that right. I could not be a bigger fan of her talent and for just being around her. Very cool of her to come hang out with us today. Please welcome one of the greats, Miss Kate the Great McKinnon. Yes! Willie got it. Yes! Is she still awake? Yes. Oh. Oh, wait. She's in the Criterion closet. Uh-oh. She's got the Criterion collection behind her. Are those DVDs behind you or just a bunch of one acts? No, no, they're books. I'm in a... Hi. Hi. Oh, hello. Hello. No, I'm in the offices of the publisher of the book that I'm here to promote.

7:57Okay, let's start right off with it. But we don't have to talk about that right away, but we should at some point. No, let's pretend like we're not. Let's let it come up organically. The name of the new book is Purple Pearl. It's about a deep sea diver. Take it from there. Jason, that's her volume. Okay, this is the second. Oh, she's putting her glasses on. That means she wrote a book. These are fake glasses that I wear to feel more comfortable. It's incredible. They provide a barrier between me and my interlocutors that I need in order to feel safe. I can see you, but you can't come close to me.

8:35Wait, are you reading from the book right now? Is this the first chapter of the book? Wow. I have never been on a podcast before. No, truly? Are you serious? Is this your first podcast? I've never been, yes. No way. And I'm afraid. No, don't be. We're super safe. It's like we're just ringing out. And no one can see you. They can just hear you. No one, yeah. Okay. Even though you look incredible. Even though I have these glasses on to protect. Are you literally in a closet? Is that why you're whispering? No, no. No, this is, I speak in dulcet tones. This is my real voice. And the presence of the microphone in my mouth is also making it easier for me to speak in my most dulcet tones.

9:14You just have it deep, deep in the throat. You know what's really powerful, Kate, is when you can bring it down and you can bring, you control the tone and the volume. Like that's real power. They lean in. They come to you. They pulled over. Or not. They pulled the car over. Or they leave. No. They could leave. But if they can't see you in the glasses, at least they can hear you now. Hey, listen. Purple Pearl is about somebody who dives for pearls. They're only purple if they're super deep. So this is a diver that is particularly talented at diving deep. I think I've got it right. It's a diver named Natalie.

9:56Okay. And she has lost her costume jewelry and she gets in trouble because it's her mother's costume jewelry. What a cat. Is this really it? And no, it's not. But I think I've just plotted my new series. So I am going to go because I'm inspired. By the way, if you open a show with somebody losing costume jewelry, I'm all in it. Me too. Me too. It's a detective show. Have you ever lost something that you really weren't supposed to lose? My phone? My dad. That's the worst. That is about the worst feeling. That is about the worst feeling. You know what you lost a few years ago, Jason, but you found?

10:40Dignity? Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And I just hit my head on the wall behind me. Oh, no. Hey, listen, I want to get right to... Kate McKinnon. Can I just say, I think that you're... One of the funniest to ever live. I think you're so funny. Oh, gosh. You know, we don't have to do this. No, you are so great. No, this is part of the podcast. You have to put up with this on the podcast. Yeah, yeah. Praise for an hour. You're so funny, and you're so original and cool. I just, I don't know you at all. Really? No. You've never met her? Kate, we've never met her. I feel like we have been, you know, a lifelong fan.

11:17Have you ever met our guest? In passing, we've said hello. Yes, in passing. But never like spent time to you. On the road? Yes. Yes, I was driving by. It was at a red light. Yeah, it was at a red light. Surprise! You drive an 88 Volvo station wagon, right? That's me. but Kate I remember the first time I was doing the Maya Rudolph show it was like it was gonna be a thing that was only one episode underrated very underrated here it comes and and it was your first year I think of Saturday Night Live and Lorne was at this shoot that I was doing with Maya and I turned to Lorne Lorne Michael and I said hey that new girl Kate McKinnon and he said he goes isn't she special I go she is such a superstar and he's like I know, we all know, we all feel it.

12:06And I was just like, so everybody knew it right when you came on. Lauren said that? Mine said it. Lauren Michael said that, yeah. That's beautiful. Thank you for saying that. But now, Kate, when was the first time you heard that? Like, how old were you when you privately, because you're a very humble person, you didn't like go out and say, hey, everybody thinks I'm great. Internally, you thought, hey, you know what? I think I can make people laugh and I like the feeling and I want to do a little bit more of it. How old were you? Were you like 12? ASMR episode. Were you like 20? When did it start happening for you?

12:49Oh, my God. This is the most intimate smart list ever. Is it? Okay. Yeah. Well, no, I, gosh, you know, what it was, okay. I was in a pageant at church, a play. Really? What denomination? Methodist. Okay. But like Northern Methodist. So like everyone is like just gray and of like Dutch descent. Gray. And has, you know, chalky skin. And we were doing a play, Daniel and the Lion's Den. Sure. And I believe I was playing Cyrus, King of Persia. That's what I don't know so well.

13:35So you're playing Cyrus. That's the choice part. I forget that. Yeah, no, it's a really good part. And I decided to do it in a British accent to make myself feel more comfortable. And those Methodists, they got to kick him up. They thought it was a hilarious choice, yes? Yeah. They weren't offended? Because he's the king of Persia. Oh, God. No, no. Well, I know. I was doing a British accent and they were laughing and I just always liked to do different voices other than my own because my own, you know, you're hearing it. It's like, it's doesn't. So it was a choice. It was a choice. It was a way to reach out.

14:13What I'm saying is there was a Methodist to your madness. But did you think it was going to be funny or were you doing it to like kind of protect yourself and then the laughter was a bit of a surprise or were you trying? That's what you just said. Really? So it was a surprise. You were like, oh, if I kind of bend things a bit, A, it protects me and B, I get laughter and that could be nice social capital. Yes, exactly. Yes? Yes. And how old were we? I want to say 10. 10. But there were always, you know, growing up in my family, everyone was doing voices. You had to do voices or you got kicked out.

14:55No, that's not true. From the family. This is around the dinner table. Kicked out. Yeah. No, I didn't have a brother. Where is this? Around the dinner table, you know, waking up, going to bed. Just voices, voices. Long Island. People were funny people. What part of Long Island? You know. The North Shore. The North Shore. Yeah. Like we're talking about Oyster Bay. Suffolk County. Yeah, yeah. We're talking Suffolk County. We're talking Suffolk County, right? NASA. Yeah, people are washed. Oh, NASA. No, NASA. Yeah. Very good. What about you? Oh, he's all the way. Are we talking like Douglaston? What are we talking about?

15:28No, not quite Douglaston. Did you see that documentary about that guy who killed all those people? Hey, Kate, hold on one second. Go ahead, Sean. The Gilgo Beach guy? Yes, yes. I just watched it. Oh, him. It was crazy. Quick hot take from Sean on the documentary True Crime Series. It was unbelievable. Was it? Why don't you mention the mass murderer? Anything else from 2022 you want to get the audience to?

15:58How about Barbie? Have you seen that? Hey, that Ted Bundy. How about Barbie? What about that weird Barbie? By the way, Kate was in Barbie. Wait, what? Did she play weird Barbie? Stupid ass. Back to you, Kate. Wait. We, growing up, you know, our big, the big thing. No, I'm sorry. Gosh. The big thing growing up. I mean, the microphone's... No, no, it's right there. You don't need to throw. I'm licking the microphone. I feel like I don't need to project. You don't. The big thing growing up was the Amy Fisher-Joey Buttafuoco incident. Joey Buttafuoco was my grandfather's auto mechanic. No way. No way.

16:44And it was exciting because it was ours. Yeah, of course. It was Long Island. It was Long Island to a T. And you know, I didn't know. Was your grandfather deposed? Was he deposed? Was your grandfather deposed? I suppose not. Mm-hmm. Okay. He would have said, but we, it was just, you know, my friends and I, we would play that. We would play, we would enact the saga. Oh, really? You would? And I didn't realize at the time that Amy Fisher was being trafficked. Amy Fisher was being trafficked? Oh, yeah. No, you didn't know that? No, of course not. I didn't know that either. She was 17. he was 35 it was you know yeah she was being trafficked from Suffolk to NASA well there's a ton of traffic yeah especially especially as you get into Great Neck if you're if you're on the northern parkway forget it Will yeah what do you you know your stuff yeah I do I'm showing off you've been on the Meadowbrook man what is this of course I've been on the Meadowbrook you're from there what is this I'm on Long Island right now yep wow We'll be right back.

17:58And now, back to the show. So you did the play. What happened? Did you start doing sketch comedy? Like, you don't automatically go from Daniel and the Magic Lion. Yeah. Playing Cedric. Playing Cedric, the entertainer. And then all of a sudden, you're going to stand up, and you're in. Lorne Michaels thinks you're the great next. Like, what happens? There you are. You're done playing the cello. Right? You've played Amy Fisher. You've played Mary Jo. You played. No, I was Joey. Oh, you were Joey? Yes. You were Joey Butterfield. Okay. Who was trafficking. Who was trafficking. Okay. So then, what'd you do?

18:35You go to NYU? What'd you do? What'd you do? Columbia. She's a smarty. Oh, there we go. I went there, but I, you know, I did the plays in high school. Sure. And I did a sketch at Columbia. And then I auditioned. I went to an open call for a show, the Big Gay Sketch Show, which was on the now defunct logo network. That's right. These progressives, they're very talented Italians. Groundbreaking. This is an Italian critic we have stuck in the back of the theater that's been in the process of getting thrown out for over 100 episodes. It never gets old and never gets funny.

19:18Wait, so Big K Sketch Show, was that the... So that was the first thing I ever auditioned for, and I got it. Wow, you got it. How old were you? I was 22, and I thought, well, this will be easy. Sure. And then I learned, it became clear that it was a difficult career. and so then I did UCB in New York, the Upright Citizens Brigade Theater for many years. Was that 26th Street Days? Yes, exactly. And then I auditioned for, what? Say again, what? I just want to stop for one second here at UCB. We're on 26th. We've got people coming in and out. Will probably, you didn't meet her there, Willie? I didn't see you there.

20:03I was there every Sunday night at ASCAP for about 12 years. I was so afraid to even go to ASCAT. Wait, what's the difference between ASCAT and UCB? No, but you know ASCAT. This is the Sunday night show that we used to go to. Yeah, it's like an infratacy. It's an improv show. Matt and Ian Roberts used to do. What is the difference between that and UCB? UCB's the theater. ASCAT was the Sunday night show, which was like a big, long herald. The name of the show. Anyway, so you were too afraid to go to ASCAT, but who were you on? Were you on a comedy team? I did sketch, and I did a lot of one-woman shows.

20:36Oh, not a tin fire. No, never. But that involved a lot of like I would have, I did one where it had a cake in it and a full rotisserie chicken and seven wigs. And so I would have to bring all the wigs and then I would stop at the Gristini's grocery store above and buy a cake and a full rotisserie chicken and bring them down. And so I was lugging those days. Those days were exciting days. And just lugging a lot of props and wigs. I had amassed a collection of 45 or so wigs that were gross and had chicken juice in them.

21:24They got all chickeny and they got all cakey. But when you went back really quick, sidebar, I had an audition for In Living Color when I was like 20. That's our new segment called Cyborg. Bring it back to you, Sean. Go ahead. I auditioned for it in Living Color when I was 21 years old to replace, quote, the white guy. It was Jim Carrey. And I go in with a bag of tons of wigs, and I sit down, and the woman, the cast director, is sitting right across from me, and I go through all these characters that I put together in like 24 hours. And at the end of it, not one laugh, not one laugh, and she goes, wigs are fun, aren't they?

21:56Oh, fuck. And that's it. Oh, Sean. Wait a second. I had to, oh, no. How did we not know this? I had no idea that you had a bag of characters to match a bag of wits. I was just saying, can we meet one? Yeah. Give us your best one, Shawnee. Sorry, Kate. One sec. This is going to be good. No, no, I want this too. Give us your best. I made them up in 24 hours. I don't even remember what they got. Oh, shit, you don't. Hello. What's your go-to? There he is. Hello, mate. That guy's probably got severe bangs. Right? Yeah. All right. Back to you, Kate. Back to Kate. So, Kate, you said when you were in Big Gay Sketch Show or something, you said, oh, boy, this was really hard.

22:35It's not what I thought it would be. What did you mean by that? What was hard? Oh, just being a comedian, being an actor. I mean, auditioning, stuff, getting jobs. Very, very difficult. And finding your voice and developing material. It's a ton of work. Supporting yourself, turning it into a living. This is a lifelong craft, practicing the craft, I thought. I was naive, and it's, you know, it turned out to be a whole thing. Yeah. But glad. It's hard. It's not easy to navigate. It's harder to navigate than the Van Wick between four and six. Am I right? I agree. Am I right? Whoa. Are we talking about the Van Wick or what?

23:21Whoa. Kate. You take the southern state all the way? What do you do? I'm not a maniac, but I will sometimes take the Bell Parkway. I'm not lying. from JFK, I'll take the belt. Oh, the belt's great, but you can't put a semi-truck on the belt. You can't put a semi-truck on the belt, and then I'll take the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel. True. No, but really, you take the LIE all the way out of there? Obviously, I take the LIE. I'm not a fucking maniac. Well, I don't know. I don't know you. At some point, you're switching. Kate, the plan going to Columbia, the plan going to Columbia since you majored, graduated with a degree in theater, was to be an actor as you're living, correct?

23:58This was how you're going to feed yourself. No, I did not. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that that was possible. I can't believe that. You're a smart person by virtue of going to Columbia. You major in theater. You come out with a degree there. How were you planning that you were going to tack to a completely different industry to feed yourself and provide shelter? The summer I graduated from college, my plan was that I was going to dress up as Pippi Longstocking. Uh-huh. sell popsicles in Union Square. And my gimmick would be that I would be dressed as Pippi Longstocking. And so everyone would buy my popsicles.

24:39So that was my professional plan. Great markup potential on popsicles. I also was really wanting to teach English in Romania or one of the Balkan states. Or Romanian in England. Yes. wait wait so you didn't imagine it i find that so i mean you must have known that even sean hayes thought he could make it in show business you know like with his wigs yeah i got one on now never in never did i ever ever think that that was possible no okay so how did the audition for snl happen then when you were at ucb you did like lindsey shook us came down and saw you what happened um i was doing a showcase in la and i uh i they invited me to audition and then i did and how did that audition go was it you were very nervous i would imagine i was horrifically nervous i was going to um the restroom often the restroom often no I was horrendously nervous but then Bobby Moynihan I guess maybe had seen me at UCB doing a one woman show and he came up to me and he said hey you're funny and then I could breathe and that was it so I do credit him with everything giving you a little prop up right beforehand no but seriously just when someone reaches out to you in the dark here she comes You know, and all it takes is one.

26:19Get it. Because when someone has the kindness to see you. Preach it. Then you get a little bit taller and you can fly. Yep, we're going to be right back. And I flew. No, but no, if he had not done that, honestly, I would be in Romania. And they received you well? Was there generous laughter and warmth from the people in the dark? I heard some titters, mild titters, which was so encouraging because I had heard that there would be dead silence. So I was prepared for dead silence. And then when I got a single titter, I thought, okay, I'm flying. But I had also practiced it a lot. I like to wing stuff.

27:13I don't know about you guys. But that I thought. Have you noticed how prepared we are? I'm all out of questions. Now, they don't let you know on the spot there, right? Do they call you? Does your agent call you? Are we represented at that moment by an agent? How did it all come together? I don't think I did at that point have representation. I think I had. No, that's not true. I did have an agent and a manager at that point. Bless them. And so you get the call. You're elated. You're nervous. You go to—what was the first day like over there at SNL? Was it what you thought it might be? It was—guys, I just was really, really nervous.

28:02Yeah, I'm sure they all were. Oh, well, so the thing was it was just me. I was hired alone. What? Five, at the last five episodes of a season. Oh, my God. So I just, I was like, here's your computer. And bless them, I had known a few folks there from UCB who rescued me from the choppy, choppy waters of my own nervousness and really helped me out. Were you a writer or performer? Performer. Performer, right out of the gate. I just want to say like with that audition like I practiced so many times I must have said that out loud 50 ,000 times and I felt okay about it because I had done that but usually I'm winging it I feel like the performers that really stand I mean you tell me because I only hosted once I've never been a cast member but from what I see is the people that really stand out on Saturday Night Live really do their homework and really work on characters or the dialogue?