"Maggie Gyllenhaal"

11:16Sean Hayes:Sean, so exercising is this thing that people, so what they do You break a sweat But this is not for Tracy. This is for Sean. But you were asking me if I always wanted to be a director. I don't think so. I think I, to be honest, I don't even, I didn't even allow myself to fantasize or imagine that it was a possibility. Really? For a long time. I mean, there weren't any other women doing it. I mean, there were, but I wasn't cool enough to know about like Agnes Varda when I was in high school. You know, I mean, I really. the people who were really doing great stuff on film were actresses, at least from my perspective.

11:58And I had, I looked up to so many people who were, you know, totally expressing themselves and being incredible, but I didn't see a lot of directors. And then I played a director on TV. I mean, I played a porn director on The Deuce. Yes, right. But I think that was actually sort of part of what, just imagining, fantasizing. It, like, allowed me to imagine it.

12:25Sean Hayes:So what was the first, I'm trying to think, the first thing that you directed? The Lost Daughter. Was The Lost Daughter. Yeah. Yeah, which was super well-received. And so then, but that was only, what, that was like five years ago maybe, The Lost Daughter, right? Four years ago. Four or five years ago. Four or five years ago, yeah. So, but was there any time before, Or was that really the first time that you allowed yourself to kind of contemplate doing it? You must have. I spent, I mean, you guys must know what I mean. Like I sort of just was talking about this, like that feeling of like, you know, it's almost like when you're a kid and you're like, if I had this job, I would never speak to someone like this.

13:07Or I would never make them twist themselves into a pretzel to get this tiny thing, like cut this line or whatever. And so I guess I imagined it in that level. or even with writing, like I would cut chunks of dialogue or just kind of sneakily move a line. But no, I think really I just kind of went, all right, I'm going to try this. I'm going to, I did it, I wrote Lost Daughter also. And each step I thought, okay, I'm just going to take this step and we'll see how it feels. And then once I started doing it, I think I immediately just went, this is a way better job for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what was that, when you direct, your first directing gig, what was the thing that you were overwhelmed with or scared about the most?

13:54Before? Before I did it? Yeah, like as you were prepping the film, like what was the first, what was the most thing you were scared about? It's funny, I was so much scarder about making The Bride than I ever was about making The Lost Daughter. I was scared, I was, but I think in some ways I didn't even know what I was walking into. I mean, that said, I'd been on so many sets. I think about directors who are really first-time directors who don't know how to read a call sheet, you know, who don't know what the rhythm of a day feels like, who, that must be really, really scary.

14:27Sean Hayes:Yeah, so when you're doing The Bride, like, you kind of, now you know, so you've had the experience, right? So then you have that anticipation of, like, shit, now I know where some of the pitfalls are. How's that going to go? How's that emergency going to go? But even more than that, I think with The Bride, I actually was terrified before I started. I was like, I wrote the script. It came out very, not easily, obviously. Writing is so hard, but there was an ease to it. And then I was scared. I was really scared.

14:58Will Arnett:The Bride was number two, the second film. Yeah. And it's a significant jump forward as far as budget and scope and just basic responsibility, a big piece of Hollywood business too and big, huge stars. And yeah, that must have been, yeah, sobering, to say the least. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. On set, even though it was, as you say, like the scope was just much bigger, it felt very similar to The Lost Daughter in terms of just working, workflow, how we did it. And I didn't know that it would, and I think that's part of why I was scared. But once we got working, it was the same. And yet, actually, maybe even easier in some ways because the heads of every department were incredible.

15:56Will Arnett:Yeah, right. And you had a longer schedule too, right? We had a longer schedule. I mean, like maybe even twice as long. I shot, not quite twice as long, but I shot The Lost Daughter in 26 days. Wow. It was really quick. Wow. That's fast. But there was so much story and there was so much to do. It wasn't like we were hanging out eating sushi. We were really working on the bride. We were like, you know, down to the minute every day. But I do think also like the bigger scope and the excellent, excellent crew. I mean, it had a great crew in Greece on The Lost Daughter, but they don't have a props master, for instance.

16:33They don't have someone who takes care of props. So I had a very important doll in that movie. I don't know if you guys saw it. And we had one doll. And it was like, you know, it's just sort of wrapping it together as best we can. And we were not doing that on The Bride. We had great people.

16:52Will Arnett:As an actor, as a great actor yourself, how – I'm assuming that your knowledge of being an actor affects the way in which you direct actors. And are you – do you find yourself directing every actor as if that actor is you? or are you intuitive and you figure out a different way to direct different actors based on what you assume their needs are? That's such an interesting question, actually. Thank you. When I started The Lost Daughter, I started with, I don't know, eight days with Jesse Buckley. Pretty much Jesse is the center of pretty much every scene. And I spoke to Jesse the way I would speak to myself.

17:47Like the way I sort of wished someone would speak to me, you know? And with Jesse, it just went in like water. And then I tried to talk to Olivia Colman that way. And she was like, what the fuck are you talking about? You know, she was like, what? And I really quickly, like on the job, had to realize, oh, right, no, of course. Like I can't talk to my husband the way I talk to Jesse either. He's also like, fuck off, what? You know, so that was such a pleasure to me, actually. That was actually, I would say, one of my absolute favorite things about The Lost Daughter was learning, oh, what language is it with this person?

18:29Like, and then bringing that to the bride. I mean, like, how does Penelope Cruz want to be talked to versus Annette Bening? Like, Annette, I realized I would get so excited by what she was doing. I would come to her with like three notes on top of each other and she just would not have it. She wanted one in the top. And like, and made that very clear to me. Whereas like, you know, Jesse just wants to sort of take it all in and whatever sticks, sticks. And yeah, Peter just like, well.

18:58Sean Hayes:But that's a process that you learn as you go, right? Like it's something like you have to, like that first day, that first week, it's the personalities. and you're trying to figure out what that rhythm was. Like, Jay, what you were kind of saying, like how you have to, it's not that you're tailoring it, but it's, you have to have a certain amount of EQ to be a really good director, I think. Yeah. The really good ones have that understanding, as you pointed out, to go, oh, this person, you have to kind of read the room, right? A hundred percent. I think you do tailor it to each person. And that interaction is one of my favorite things.

19:36Sean Hayes:And sometimes there's friction too. Like not, but it's only natural that there will be moments. Yeah. We've all had them where somebody gives you a note or something, you go like, hey, you know, and you're just trying to, and sometimes it's necessary. Or sometimes you need friction in order to do whatever it is you need to do. And the director just has to deal with that. Like I remember, I won't say who, just so that I, because I love him. But there was an actor who yelled at me on The Lost Daughter, and none of us had been yelling at each other. Like, we were just, it was all, we were all in love.

20:14And I was sort of stunned for a second, and then I was like, oh, no, no, I've been him. I know, I get it. Okay, he just needs to, like, crack something a little bit. Just take it. Just take the smack and just keep going. That's your job. Like, a little taste of your own medicine. Keep going.

20:30Will Arnett:He was kind of just in character. Like, just trying to, like, break something. Like, just make something alive happen.

20:37Sean Hayes:You know, that's interesting you say that because, and it is, when you're in such an extreme sort of creative environment, and sometimes, as you say, sometimes that needs to happen. And I think that there are plenty of examples of people who are especially historically poorly behaved, who are really terrible to people and stuff. But there also is an area where there has to be that sort of friction where people do. And people will say like, oh, that's just Hollywood. People are badly behaved. Like, no, this is like a really intense creative environment that also you're dealing with where the currency is emotion and people and human beings.

21:16Sean Hayes:And there's going to be that. And sometimes that exists, right? Yeah, yeah. I think acting, having done it, listen, I think directing is a harder job. No question. But I think there's something about acting that is so, so precious. Like beyond what anyone's doing. So vulnerable. So special. You know, I really do. I just think like, you know. You're putting yourself out there to be judged over and over and over again. Well, I was listening to them talking about your play. a one-man play, man, that's hardcore. Yeah. Yeah. So that's exhausting. Especially staring at Jason the whole time, evidently.

22:00Sean Hayes:Yeah, exactly. I tried not to blank, Shawnee. I'm so sorry.

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25:37And now back to the show.

25:40Will Arnett:So when you talk about like part of the actor's sort of high wire act and vulnerability is showing kind of what your version of this character is. And oftentimes, this is for Tracy out there, oftentimes an actor will get a part through an audition process. And through that audition process, you basically show the director, well, here's my version of the character. And if you want this version, go ahead and hire me. And then when I show up on the set, you'll know exactly what's coming. When you're dealing with big stars like the kind Maggie has in this film, they're not auditioning. So the first time Maggie's getting to see their version of these characters is kind of through the rehearsal process, which is kind of like a week or two out and just kind of around a table reading.

26:24Will Arnett:but really mostly it's on set and it's kind of too late to make changes so my question maggie is especially since you've written this thing too how do you rate your ability to be flexible to be nimble to the the inevitably different version of this of these characters than you've always imagined in your head and how do you not assess like sort of a false negative on that performance just simply because it's different than what you've imagined. Because the audience hasn't read the script. They don't have any preconceived notions. So they're going to take what they get. And the actor is kind of approaching their performance with that assumption.

27:04Will Arnett:And they just hope the director slash writer will give the same level of freedom and acceptance to that version of the character. Do you find yourself comfortable with that? Because that's hard.

27:16Sean Hayes:By the way, that's a really good question. The first 30 seconds of that was a great question. The last four minutes. Yeah, I apologize. The last four minutes were insane. We'll trim it. We'll knock it down. I was actually riveted by everything you did. I was too, actually. It's a really good question. Yeah, Jason, that is a good question. I hate to admit it's a great question. I was like, yes, I've always wanted to know that. Yeah. Well, this is like one of the reasons why I became a director, although we can talk about some of the other ones, but I think I've so often been the person who came to set with just a different take on something, not just to be contrarian or be different, but because it's me that's making it.

27:53And I'm different than what the director imagined when they were alone in their room. And I've so many times thought, don't you want my mind too? Like, don't you want like my heart too?

28:05Will Arnett:I don't want to be just a puppet. Like, yeah, isn't it going to be a better movie if like all of us actors and the DP and the designer, you know, all put ourselves into it. And then yes, as the director, I mean, I would say this, I would say, yes, I feel very strongly that I'm trying not to push actors into doing something that I imagined when I was all by myself. And I don't do that because it's just not my taste. It's just not what I like from them, you know, which means that they surprise me all the time. That said, I think it's my job if we're trying to walk a tightrope across the two hours of this movie.

28:45Yeah. it's my job to both allow them sometimes, okay, look, we did a take where the whole second half of that, you were falling off the tightrope. I mean, I'm not going to say that to them, but I'm not going to use it, you know? And yet, like, what it did was it got us to the next take where there was a laser beam focus or whatever, you know? I mean, I think it's my job to then assess it and take care of it and really protect the things that are really special and beautiful. I mean, I think you can watch a movie, you can, let me say this. I think there's lots of really good actors. And I think there's a handful of really brilliant ones.

29:25And like you guys said, a lot of them are in my movie. And so how do you make space for those really brilliant actors to not act like they're learning something or changing on film, but actually learn something or make a change on film. That's the most exciting thing for me to watch.

29:46Sean Hayes:I think that's a really great point that you bring up too, this idea of sort of walking that tightrope and maybe there's part of a take where they don't and you don't bring it up, but it allows you to get to that other place. And I think that in that process, if you can allow, certainly for me, I know, if you can feel safe enough that there are no wrong answers and that it's okay to do that, then that's where you can really find that growth. You can really find that other gear by allowing yourself. Because if you're worried that you're getting it, you're going to get it wrong or you're not doing it right, you're fucked.

30:22Because in the other gear, there aren't any wrong answers. I 100%. When you get into that other gear, it's all good. What about, dumb, dumb question. How did you think of doing this movie, The Bride? Where did the idea come from? Why did you want to do it? And isn't it kind of cool that Frankenstein just came out and then The Bride? I mean, it's so cool. Holy shit, you're right.

30:45Sean Hayes:That was a dumb-dumb question. You're so right. I just think that's so cool that it's all happening at the same time. Yeah, you must have been aware of that other movie. Guillermo's movie, yeah. And I, well, I'll answer the first part of the question first, which is I was at a party. I was thinking about what I wanted to do. You know, I was kind of knocking things around in my mind, Just sort of more, just thinking about what was on the edges of my mind. It's kind of hard to explain, I guess. But even with acting, I don't know if you guys relate to this at all, but like the things that appeal to me are usually the things that are like right on the edge of what I've been thinking about.

31:26And then the making of the movie can be a way of kind of getting into some dangerous territory about what you don't know, you know. So I was thinking about, I don't know, what do I want to do next? And I saw this guy with a tattoo of the Bride of Frankenstein on his entire forearm. You know, the Elsa Lanchester electricity hair. And I was like, oh, yeah, wait, what is that? It's the Bride of Frankenstein, but who is she, you know? And I went back to my hotel. I was in L.A. at the time. And I looked her up online. And I was like, yeah, she's so like. Badass. Yeah, so badass. Exactly. Then I watched the movie, which I had never seen.

32:14And she's in it for two minutes. And she doesn't speak at all. And I started to think about this idea of the Bride of Frankenstein. And, you know, well, then I went and read the book, which I had also never read. And Frankenstein is so lovely in the book. I mean, he does murder people and, you know, he's...

32:37Sean Hayes:It's going to happen. It's very light. We all have a bad day. No, but there is an aspect of exactly that, where you read it and you're like, wait, I also feel lots of rage and violence sometimes. I don't murder people, but he's so human. Like he's so vulnerable. He's so lonely in the book. He's also super smart. He literally hangs out in a barn next to some people speaking French and learns French in a couple days. Or like finds a suitcase of philosophy and like, you know, reads it and then is into philosophy. He's a really great guy. But he's so lonely. So I thought, okay, fine. A really lonely, like unbearably lonely, wonderful guy is trying to get another monster because no one else will be with him to be with him.

33:32Wants someone to dig someone up from a grave and make someone like him. In a way, it's fair enough. But what about her? You know, what about the person who was dead and didn't ask to be brought back to life? and maybe she didn't want to marry you. You know, maybe she doesn't get a lot of say in the matter. And I thought that puzzle, which is not addressed in the movie, although Elsa Lanchester definitely wakes up and says, fuck no. I mean, she doesn't say that. But without saying anything, that's definitely what she communicates. I thought that's a great puzzle, like a dramatic puzzle to start from.

34:11And how does that, and then what if it's also an epic love story? What if despite those very difficult beginnings, they can't resist each other?

34:21Sean Hayes:Yeah. Yeah. Really cool. Do you ever, you were saying that you like to sort of write about things that, I don't know what you sort of said, not that scare you, but things that interest you or things that might sort of push. On the edge. on the edge of the road. Yeah, are there ideas that you've had, I'm curious, that you've thought about writing but you're like nervous about writing about for certain reasons? Are there things you go like, I don't know if I want to touch that. I don't mean politically or anything, but just because emotionally or something that you, and you don't have to answer it if it's too personal.

34:56No, I do write about those things. Like that's the lost daughter and that's this. Like I sort of do. Like my daughter, my 19-year-old was joking with me because I was saying that this one was sort of dedicated in a way to my younger daughter and that the first one was dedicated to her. And she was like, oh, really? I get to have the one where I'm like, you know, the mom is having such a hard time being a mother and she gets to have the bride. But I think that the way I get excited and want to sit down and write and work is when I think it's a little dangerous.

35:35Will Arnett:Yeah. The stuff that really lives in your deepest parts. Yeah. The scary stuff. You got to attack the scary stuff. Can fill the most pages with the stuff that is a part of your deepest parts, right? I'll bet. And I remember actually in The Lost Daughter writing on an airplane because I used to write on airplanes a lot because my kids were little. And so I would think and think and think. And then I was, I don't know what I was doing, press for something. And I would just write everything I'd been thinking about. And I was writing one scene and I like looked over my shoulder because I thought, oh, this is dangerous.

36:07And it was just a little thing where this woman was saying, I hate talking to my kids on the phone.

36:19I both love talking to my kids on the phone, but when they were little, sometimes it was really hard. You just don't hit the ball back. To say that out loud or even write it out loud on an airplane, that was dangerous. It's dangerous now. I feel scared.

36:34Sean Hayes:So your 19-year-old... Oh, you're going to get a lot of pushback, Maggie, on this.

36:38Will Arnett:So your 19-year-old, does she have any interest in what you do? Or is there a completely different path? I don't think that she, at least at the moment, she doesn't seem like she wants to be a filmmaker, although she makes the greatest iPhone little videos that she edits on the phone. Yeah. They're so funny. But she's been such a great sounding board for me artistically on the movie. She's seen the movie so many times. Wow. She's been, she's such a great mind. That's great. So wait, so New York, you're in New York right now? Yeah. And New York or L.A.? And forgive me, the rest of the family is in L.A., right?

37:23My brother's here and my mom is here, actually, but my dad is in L.A. Oh, I thought your mom was in L.A. too. She used to be. She used to be, okay. And you much prefer New York, yeah? Obviously, you live there. Yeah, I do. I do. I was just in L.A., though, and it was so nice in February, like eating avocados and, you know. Feeling the sun, yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, I was like, I get it why they all do this.

37:49Will Arnett:It is a whole, I mean, I have such a lust to live in New York. But, you know, as I'm getting older and crankier and more noise sensitive and everything else, I do find my little alarm going off after. I was just there for four days seeing Shani. And it was like, yeah, just a little extra space in L.A. allows for, you know, cranky sensitivities to be taken care of a little bit more. I mean, my goodness. It was so compact there. But if you had your home here, you know what I mean, it would be different. That's true. I live in Brooklyn, so it's a little more outside of the craziness. But I think that's sometimes even about people who live in Manhattan.

38:35I go into Manhattan and I'm like, oh, my God, I need to get out of here. Yeah. But I think, oh, but if my apartment were in Manhattan, I could at least just get out of here.

38:44Will Arnett:You'd know your spots and how you could sidestep. It's so funny.

38:49Sean Hayes:I feel, and I've been going, and I'm sort of in the process of sort of halfway moving back to New York now. So I'm there a lot. And I find myself, this is so weird. I sleep better when I'm in New York. I feel more at home. there than I do here, even though I've lived here full time for just over 10 years, basically. I don't know. There's something about New York. That's interesting, Willie. Yeah. My, my, my, um, my blood pressure settles on everything. I just feel more relaxed. What is that about? What, because, because the business is in LA maybe? No, I mean, I don't think business is everywhere.

39:24Sean Hayes:It's not really anywhere anymore. Yeah. But I just, that's true. Feel like that's my, I don't know, my place. And it's, yeah, I just feel better. And so many of our friends are moving back to New York now too, which is... Maggie, where do you, what do you do outside of work that you're like with you and the kids? Do you go to, as Will says, the Long Island? Do you travel out there?

39:49Will Arnett:Wait, is 19-year-old still around? Is she going to school? No, she's in college. She's in college. Not in New York. Not in New York, no. So I just have my 13-year-old here now. We have a house in Vermont. Oh, nice. Way deep, deep inside the— grandfathered into the National Forest. Amazing. But I will be honest with you and say that is really because of my husband. The great. The great Peter Sardgaard, yeah. For Tracy, yeah. And I love Vermont, but that's really Peter's place. And I'm kind of always wanting to, you know, I'll go for a bit, but it's pretty hardcore. Isolating? It's very really in the middle of nowhere.

40:45We were stacking wood the other day and Peter made me laugh. He was like, do you think this is what our friends imagine we do when we come here? Hey, yeah. Stacking wood. Yes.

40:56Will Arnett:Wait, so you're out there? or are you chopping the wood and stacking it? I wasn't chopping it. But he chops it? I was just stacking it. But he like raises bees and chickens and taps maple trees. Oh, my God. And has a beautiful garden.

41:11Sean Hayes:Jason would love to pay people to do that for him.

41:14Will Arnett:I mean, the raising bees part I would have to pay someone for. He's dreaming of it now. What do you say? Watching them do it. Is Peter putting on the hood and everything with the bees? Yeah. Although Peter sometimes is like, I don't need the hood. I don't even need the gloves. This guy. I listened to, I read this book and he did, you know, and listened to this thing and watched these videos about how to like be zen and do it. So the bees that come to you and then he gets like 10 stings on his arms, you know. Oh my God. Wow. It's hot though. What a stud this guy is. He's such a good actor. And now you're telling me he's got this move too?

41:52Will Arnett:The beekeeper. He keeps bees. Yeah, but I'll tell you this, just so you don't feel bad. All of his bees in Brooklyn died. And it was because he made a mistake. He made a beekeeping mistake. And he was so upset about it. And I was like, Peter, you were in Switzerland acting. And then you did another movie in London right away. You were home for one week and your bees died. Like some people's only job is doing bees. You know, like give yourself a break. So he was upset that his bees... Did you shirk your responsibilities in babysitting the bees? Yeah, I think I maybe did. I think you've got to be able to shoulder some of that, right?

42:35Will Arnett:Don't put this on her. You know she had something on a piece of paper. Baby, all I need you to do, just water the bees for me. I picture you guys driving. It's not wrong. A little sticky. I picture you guys driving away just going, oh, shit, the bees. Let's just bring them. Put them in the trunk. Just bring them. Like Home Alone, Kevin and Home Alone. So wait. I think I would go out of my mind if I lived in the middle of Vermont like that. Not that it's not beautiful and I appreciate it and I would like to go for a little bit. Yeah, because you're a city mouse. Yeah, I can't be alone with my thoughts too long.

43:18Sean Hayes:Oh, boy.

43:19Will Arnett:Uh-oh, hang on, why? You need to write something about them. We got to do a celebrity version of Alone and just see how... I know. I mean, do you think you could make it a week on your own? Period, no. You don't have to finish the sentence. So, well... Yes. If I knew it was a week, I could do it for a week. I think, but it would be hard. No shelter, no food. Oh, shit. I mean, you just have 10 items, right? For a week. I've only seen the last episode of Alone, which I watched. last two days ago with Peter and my daughter who were so into it. Peter could win. Peter would win.

44:01Sean Hayes:It sounds like Peter could win. He'd start chopping wood day one. He'd start cultivating bees. He'd be eating honey. But he wouldn't kill a moose. He probably wouldn't kill a moose. He might not kill a moose, but I watched those videos. This is what I'm, I watched so many of the videos of the guys who time-lapse of building shelters out of nothing. Oh, I get those too. I get those too. I love.

44:22Will Arnett:It's on your algorithm? Yes. Send me one so you can infect my stream. Do you also get like Eastern European grandmas making like huge vats of like stew?

44:34Sean Hayes:I just did. I just started getting these videos of these Roma people in Eastern European Romania and having these parties. And these guys are like arguing and then these women are making this insane food and they keep slapping each other's hands and then they have these huge feeds. It's wild. There's also people in China dyeing fabric. If you want to get a my algorithm.

44:55Will Arnett:I've seen those too. Yes. I'm fascinated by that. I'm still getting the guys in fistfights on golf courses. I need to flush my stream.

45:03Sean Hayes:No, I get Karen videos. I get just nonstop Karen videos. I get tons of Karen videos and cop videos where they argue with the cops. Oh, yeah, about their rights, First Amendment right, guys? Yeah. I'm just filming for who? I'm just exercising my right to film. Yeah, you're obviously asking for trouble. I'd love to see a mashup

45:20Will Arnett:of Steve Sands arguing for his rights on the sidewalk

45:26wait go back to a live for a second because I remember this one episode where a guy cut open a salmon or some fish and he's like I'll just eat the fish eggs like caviar yeah or whatever and he took a whole hand do you know the episode I'm talking about took a whole hand and he washed them and everything and he got so sick so sick yeah I'm like yeah you can't just open a fish and eat their eggs.

45:49Sean Hayes:Jason does that before. Jason, three days before the word show, eats that just so it gets really sick. Yeah, I've got to drop the water weight somehow. Just a random fish.

45:57Will Arnett:Yeah. There was this one where the guy opened up a fish and there was a little tiny fish inside of it that had been digested. And he was like, bonus. You know, look at that. No way. I've got to go deep with alone. I've only seen one. We'll be right back. Oh, boy. You know, we talk about closets a lot on this show. We sure do. Kicking the door down, coming on out. We're basically talking about that closets are for clothes. Oh, I just knew. And I've taken that too much to heart because my closet is stuffed. I've been meaning to go through my closet. Well, you should sell some of them. I should sell it.

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49:31and back to the show

49:34Sean Hayes:so if you're you're not in Vermont if you're in the city and you're not working and you're not in post and you're not acting but you're what are you doing what's the thing that you're doing that is your like not even guilty pleasure your pleasure how do you dumb it down yeah yeah yeah it's so funny though I've been in post or shooting or prep for so long. Like, what have I been doing? I know you've got to do something. But even now, even now when you're in post and prep where you have five minutes or 10 minutes to do something that's for you that you like to do that's like a little mini break, what is it?

50:08Sean Hayes:Even Wordle counts. Oh, I love those. I love when they tell me I'm a genius, even if I cheat, you know? Like, you go look at the...

50:19Will Arnett:How smart are you? Like the news quiz. I don't have that one. How up-to-date are you with this week's news? you take one of those little quits

50:26Sean Hayes:they have the history one of the New York Times too where you can it gives you a bunch of events and you have to place them on the timeline of when they occurred did this happen after it's cool Billy does good on that it's really good I want to do that Maggie do you do do you do all the New York Times games like the connections yes when I was cutting when I was cutting I would basically be sitting behind my editor for Tracy you mean cutting the film cutting the film yeah editing the film sitting sitting behind my

50:52Will Arnett:what an incredible editor you had my god Incredible editor, Dylan Titchener, yeah. Cut Boogie Nights and There Will Be Blood and Zero Dark Thirty, amazing. And you had Larry Schur as a DP. I mean, goddammit.

51:04Sean Hayes:I love the way you said that, by the way, just as you were talking about all the filmmakers on the film, which is the props and the DP, and I don't think that people understand, and maybe for Tracy, too, that making a film, everybody who has these great jobs, you see the actors, but there are all these filmmakers there who are part of the process, who all have such important jobs, who are so valuable to the filmmaking process. Well, and I just want to say, actually, because we were talking about the acting, and obviously I've been an actor, but what I haven't been is a cinematographer. And, you know, I learned a lot about aspect ratio and lensing on The Lost Daughter, but the truth is, and now I'm understanding who Tracy is, you know, on a little movie, You have no money.

51:53And so you can't afford even to rent a lot of different lenses. So in The Lost Daughter, we maybe had five lenses, maybe. And so with those five lenses, I learned a lot. Then I go, as Jason and you were saying, to this totally different scope. And I have cranes, techno cranes, shooting for IMAX, which is a very particular thing, which is not just a movie that will play in IMAX, but a movie that's designed to change aspect ratio, like to grow vertically for an IMAX audience. I didn't even know really what IMAX was when I started. And Larry Sher, who's my cinematographer, I felt like I came in to this movie with a really clear idea of what I wanted to say and in a lot of ways also how I wanted to say it, even visually.

52:45But I, I don't know, I felt like I took a master class with him. And I do feel like I finished the movie speaking a language that I didn't speak when I started the movie, which is maybe part of what was terrifying. Like if you have to learn, if you're, if you know, like I was saying about actually even watching good acting, like you'd rather watch someone learn something for real on screen instead of fake like they're learning it, even if they fake it very well. I was actually learning as I was working, which was incredible, like so exhilarating, but also.

53:19Will Arnett:And did you guys jump on his shot deck is such an incredible asset for folks.

53:28Will Arnett:He's cultivated all of these images from all these films. A quick reference point for you as you guys were devising the look of the film, did you guys spend some time on shot deck? Well, like, if we, say we're saying, okay, there's a big, you know, the movie has almost like a Bonnie and Clyde aspect of lovers on the run, you know. And there's a lot of stuff in a car. And we were talking about different ways of shooting in the car. And we were, for example, say, talking about Thelma and Louise, Ridley Scott. Lots of long lenses. Totally different way of shooting than we were shooting because they were actually in that location shooting, you know, probably with an array of cameras.

54:08both far away on really long lenses and then close around the car, different than the way we did it, but I loved the aesthetic of that movie. I found I really loved, I really love long lensing. My editor was joking with me that I should be a bird watcher.

54:28Will Arnett:And then what about designing just the overall world of it too with your production designer, Karen Murphy. What an incredible talent she is too. Like, was it, how did you, did you did you did you start um at a because world building like yeah it's like filling a blank page as a writer i would imagine it can it can be anything and how did you where did you start what sort of aesthetic did you start in was it was there like a book or photography or something or did she bring ideas or the movie is set in 1936 um which was somewhat random like i originally said it when I was writing just post-Civil War because so many people had died.

55:09This is a movie about people coming back from the dead. So I was kind of thinking like about like, when were the times when the, you know, the veil between the living and the dead felt the thinnest. So I was thinking about a post-Civil War. So many people died. So many children died in childbirth. And there was this job then I had been learning about for something else of a spiritualist, which was almost always a woman, and it was like as ubiquitous as a therapist, was someone who spoke to the dead for you. And so I started out setting it then because I thought that was kind of an interesting time to just be dealing with people brought back from the dead.

55:49And then I realized that Frankenstein, my Frank, I don't call him Frankenstein's monster because he would never call himself that, you know. So Frank was so lonely that maybe his only, like his primary relationship was with a movie star who didn't know about him, of course, but that he could go sit in a theater and watch this movie star. And also in a dark movie theater, his ugly face, you know, his scarred up face wouldn't be so, you know, scary to people. So then I thought, okay, I have to set it in a time when there are movies. and it shifted to 1936. Also because the movies then are so much about fantasy.

56:32And my movie is actually a lot about kind of breaking down the fantasy and what does a real love affair look like? And what does a real man look like, woman look like? What is the reality versus the fantasy? But still, 1936, which I think is beautiful, but it was never really 1936. It was always 1936 sort of by way of 1981 downtown New York. Really? By way of like right now. So if that's the directive for Karen, you know, that's a tough one. It's something that you haven't seen before.

57:09Sean Hayes:Yeah, but that's cool though. I love that idea.

57:11Will Arnett:So it sort of blends, it blends today's aesthetic with 81's aesthetic with 1936? Yeah, kind of. I mean, it is technically 1936, but it's a different world. As you say, world building, which is actually something I'm really interested in. That term, which I had actually never heard before, before I went to work on this movie, which at least in my mind really refers to VFX, visual effects. And something usually completely non-existent, right? Like superhero stuff. Like Lord of the Rings or whatever. This isn't, you're saying. There's definite, tangible, relatable, recognizable elements. But, I mean, here's something I've been thinking a lot about.

57:53So few women have gotten a chance to get our hands on some of these tools.

58:01Will Arnett:Yeah. Like shooting four IMAX with a changing aspect ratio, like world building. I mean, there are some, there are, but just not very many. And I somehow feel like the way that it's been done before is in a language that doesn't totally resonate with me. So, you know, world building could mean we're shooting underneath like that. What would it be? The West Side Highway up in New York like has like an overpass if you're up on 125th Street with beautiful, beautiful like arches. We shot there. But if you look to the right, in reality, there's like a big ad for whatever, something from now and the rest of the highway and all this modern stuff.

58:48So you can create whatever you want in the rest of that frame. And it was interesting because when we first started working on that frame, it was like a celebration of VFX. It was like we would sort of pan over to show the whole world and look what we did with our VFX. And that's just not, I don't like that. Right, right, right. I'm like, I just want to be in the movie. I want to be in the world. I don't need to show you how expensive the VFX were. You know, I want to, I have a different, I'm really interested in world building. I'm really interested in that idea. I really think probably the next thing I do will incorporate that, some kind of imaginary world.

59:30That's great. I love that. but with all the things I've learned from this one. Sure. Isn't it kind of, I was going to say this earlier, isn't it kind of like designing a house? Like you got like the architect and the interior designer and the project manager and the contractor. That's all I wanted to say. Next question. Or a party. Or a party. We used to think of it as a party, like a great dinner party, you know, where someone else is doing the flowers and the, you know, and I just invite people and maybe seat them and that kind of thing.

1:00:02Will Arnett:Yeah. Okay, it's got a placard. Oh, sorry, Sean. Did you want to take a snack break? I'm sorry. Yeah, I got an apple slice.

1:00:09Sean Hayes:I mean, just sort of drop in kind of a non-secular and then just pop an apple in your mouth.

1:00:14Will Arnett:What the fuck do you think

1:00:15Sean Hayes:is going on here, Maggie? We're taking up Maggie's time. We're taking up Maggie's time. You just wait five more minutes

1:00:22Will Arnett:and you can go get your snack on. Yeah.

1:00:24Sean Hayes:I didn't have anything else to follow up with, so I thought it was safe to take an apple slice. I like that idea, though, Maggie, you said about like that it's never spoken to you before and nobody's ever done it this way and i do like that idea of like there's there's got to be sort of more to it than than just flexing a sort of a a muscle which does seem to probably be because it's been dominated by men and maybe i'm wrong about that but there's something cool about that like just bringing a new perspective to it that it's that it can be much deeper than that somehow do you know what i mean well like Again, I'm just being simplistic about it, but maybe.

1:01:01I don't mean to be overly simplistic about it either. I do think if you have a different experience in the world, you're going to make different movies, you know? Yeah. And obviously gender or race or ethnicity, I mean, those aren't the only things that change your experience, but they are one thing. Yeah. And I guess I, well, when I actually started using IMAX and changing aspect ratios and doing it. So I learned about it. Also, my editor that we were just praising, who's just incredible, Dylan Titchener and Larry Sher, both were kind of in each ear really teaching me so much about those tools.

1:01:42But when I imagined it, what came out was different than how IMAX has been used before. And I think that's cool. I think that's like, you know, that I feel proud of that

1:01:59Will Arnett:let me ask you this did did the film turn out the way you had imagined and hoped that it would because there's so many people that contribute it inevitably is going and as you said you provide this environment of yes please contribute bring your uniqueness so did it end up

1:02:18Sean Hayes:and and JB but also she has a front row seat to watching it evolve and change right

1:02:23Will Arnett:and the unapologetic position of controlling the way that it comes out to the extent that you can and like how much did you let yourself allow it to be the film it was kind of becoming? And like, so like what's the, I guess the question is, sorry for the long one again, but like what's the percentage that it maintained the version that you thought and hoped that it would be? Percentage in math is maybe like not my language. Come on, robot. But I, let me think, let me think. The movie has a very specific tone. Like a very, I could always hear the very unusual tone of the movie in my head. I could feel when we fell off the tightrope, for example.

1:03:16Always I could. So that has remained. And I think really when we were shooting, I was collecting all these beautiful things. I definitely had in some ways the movie in my head. Yeah. And I was sort of building something as we were shooting. But the cutting, I would say, is where it really changed. Right. And I think in some ways I, it was really about letting things fall away. Letting the movie be what I had always wanted it to be, which was kind of like a roller coaster ride. Like strap in and you can't get off until it's over. There's not, I wanted it to be like a laser beam. Like fast and hot.

1:04:11Right. And just realizing, oh, this is weighing me down or I love this and what this brings out, but I got to let it go. And even my really wise, you know, collaborators like Dylan letting me take the time I needed to know. I would say, don't fuck with that scene. No, I don't want to hear it. I love that scene. Don't fuck with it. And then eventually letting it go.

1:04:41Will Arnett:Because it wasn't, probably for a bunch of different reasons with different things you had to let go of. Because ultimately it either was not as good as the rest of the stuff that you had or that it was sort of not serving the laser beam. Yeah, no. I think I pretty much just took out, in both my movies, when I cut them, let's just take out everything that isn't really great. Like, I just, you know, and most of the time I didn't stop shooting until we had something that was great, I think. But let's just get rid of that stuff. Then the hard thing, obviously, is, like, getting rid of something that, like, for instance, the scene that I'm imagining, which is no longer in the movie, so it's hard to talk about it.

1:05:24But I felt it just deepened everything. It just took things down to, like, another level. and you know Dylan's argument and actually Dylan was not alone and I remember hearing this great note from someone about getting notes on a screenplay where she said if five people tell you you seem drunk maybe you should lie down you know when you just keep getting the same note over and over again you have to go like okay okay but in fact Dylan's argument was it's too complicated now it's made it too heavy like let it lift off and and so maybe that's for another movie.

1:06:05Sean Hayes:Yeah, yeah. Save it. I love at this, we've got a couple years on you, but I do love at this age, there's nothing better than constantly, you're like, I find more and more like that I'm learning stuff and I'm really enjoying learning stuff and also really sort of coming to peace with how little I do know or how little, what I thought I knew. Yeah. And I find it so much more exciting now to go like, wow. Yeah, for sure.

1:06:32Will Arnett:Well, yeah, you get smart enough to realize how not bright you might be. Yeah. Right. And how great it feels when someone else is able to guide you in something. It feels so good. Every day in my life, I'm like, I don't know what that word means. What are you talking about? I don't know where I'm going. Yeah, dictionary.com is on the front page of my iPhone. Is it really? Oh, I hit it a few times a week for sure. I love that. Wait, Maggie, what are you doing for the rest of the day?

1:06:59Sean Hayes:Yeah.

1:07:00Will Arnett:Tell them you're busy. Tell them you're busy. Tell them you're busy. I'm so busy. I'm so busy. I'm just around the corner. We could get a cupcake, whatever you want to get. I want to go see Wuthering Heights. Oh, yeah. I'll go see that tomorrow. I might go try to do that. I can't wait. Yeah, I'm really curious. I can't wait to see your movie. I know. I can't wait.

1:07:21Sean Hayes:March 6th, it may be already out. We don't know how this works, but we are really excited to see the bride. Maggie, such a treat to have you on. And then I want to see the next one and the next one and the next one and the next one. Keep jamming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very cool. It looks so good.

1:07:37Will Arnett:Amazing stuff. Thanks, guys. Say hi to Peter. Say hi to Jake, please. I will. This was such a nice talk. Thank you, Maggie. Yeah, thank you for doing this.

1:07:44Sean Hayes:Great to see you. The great Maggie. I'll see you around town, Maggie. Sean, we are going to come see your play. Look great on him. Go see his play. Let's play straight. Thank you. Come. Bye. Bye, Maggie. Bye, guys.

1:07:54Will Arnett:Thanks, Maggie. Bye. Bye.

1:07:59Will Arnett:Oh, that's very exciting. It is. Great guest there, Willie. I'm so excited to see her film. And truly, all the rest that she's going to do, she seems to just really have it. I know.

1:08:10Sean Hayes:I mean, just so good in everything. I mean, what a massive acting career.

1:08:13Will Arnett:I know. And then she's like, what? Sorry, what'd you say, Sean? Sorry.

1:08:17Sean Hayes:Why couldn't you take it? You were the one who was about to say something, and you had the control to wait on taking the bite. You could have not put it in. It must be good. What is it? It's just an apple. It's just an apple. He just discovered fruit. He's just discovered it. So I do want to give him. It keeps that darn scurvy away. I know. I mean, she's been in so many good movies as an actor. She's had this huge acting career. She does this turn. And this movie looks massive. She writes The Lost Daughter, nominated for an Academy Award for The Lost Daughter. Yeah. And this movie looks huge.

1:08:51Will Arnett:Has worked with all these great directors. Think about all the ones that she's been able to learn from, to cherry pick from too. I know. We've got to send her our headshots.

1:09:00Sean Hayes:I know.

1:09:00Will Arnett:You know? Yeah.

1:09:01Sean Hayes:I did a scene with her in a movie, in a low budget movie years ago, 20 years ago. And she hasn't called you yet. She didn't bring it up. No. I didn't want to bring it up either. We had a scene together. Yeah. She's such a talent. I'm so excited for The Bride. And I'm so excited for you guys. Oh, yeah. Well, I feel like you guys have a bright future. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having us today. Listen, it's been so much fun to have some fans on.

1:09:31Will Arnett:If you have any questions you forgot to ask us, you've got our email.

1:09:35Sean Hayes:Yeah, you can do follow-ups. We'll do a follow-up and let you guys have a listen before we put it out. Oh, great.

1:09:40Will Arnett:There's a couple of things I'm a little nervous about

1:09:42Sean Hayes:that I'd love to get another listen to.

1:09:44Will Arnett:Sure.

1:09:46Sean Hayes:So. Of course. Yeah. But you know what? Even if you say something wrong, I think that people are willing to let bygones be beautiful. Incredible. Cue the music.

1:10:04Sean Hayes:Smart. Less.

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