"Mel Robbins"

23:25Or eventually you get to a point where you think that other people can benefit from the lessons that you learned the hard way, et cetera. but you also have the benefit of this momentum that you've got doing it. So there are other people go, well, yeah, it works for Mel because she's getting feedback from her pushing this out to the world. I don't have, I'm not getting that same feedback on a global level and I'm not getting that feedback. I'm just, you know, a person in Cleveland who's doing it and nobody's recognizing that I'm doing it. So yeah, it works for you and you're kicking ass doing it.

24:01You're at the top of the game. But if you're just Joe Schmo, like if you're me. But 16 years ago, she wasn't getting that, right? Right. It was three years of using it in secret before I ever told anybody about it. Because let's face it, I didn't know why it worked. Right. I'm$800 ,000 in debt. Right. I am barely making the ends meet. What business do I have telling anybody anything? And so I used it in secret. And by the way, was that an important part of it, keeping it secret? In other words, holding your power and not bragging to your partner, or, hey, today I'm going to start working out. Like, I find that sometimes my stick-to-itiveness is better if I don't share what my goals and my plans for progress are.

24:42And I keep it inside and I just do it myself. And I've only got myself to answer to. And then once I get some momentum going, then I share like, hey, by the way, I've been working out for a week, you know, or by the way, I haven't had sugar for a week or something. Jason, do you keep a lot of feelings inside though? I do. I do. I know. I know you do. It's going to burst. But was that an important part? Was this a private sort of initial stage? No. Like I told Chris, my husband Chris, but literally it was self-preservation. I mean, we were in a free fall for crying out loud. Well, what did Chris say?

25:21Was Chris like, okay, cool. As long as you're not bitching at me and screaming at me, I'll try anything. Like if this keeps you calming off my ass so that I'm working as hard as I can, woman. Like, finally, you see it. Oh, Chris. Now I, I mean. Poor Chris. I know, fuck Chris, okay? Like, come on. He's a nice guy. Your TED Talk from 2011 now has over 30 million views from 2011. I want to see it. And is this what it's most, was that what it's mostly about, is the five-second rule? No. Okay, so here's the story. So three years go by. I'm using 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, to get out of bed, to network and get a job, to open up the bills, to just do the basic blocking and tackling that we all need to do because nobody's coming.

26:02You can sit around and hope that somebody's gonna come and fix this. They're not. And the sooner you recognize you gotta stop waiting to feel ready and you've gotta get to a point in your life where where you're at doesn't work for you anymore. So you're gonna do something about it. So for three years, I'm just working at it. Chris is going back into the restaurant business, renegotiating leases, like working 100 hours a week. I'm finding odd job after odd job so we can just get the bankruptcy off our back and keep ourselves afloat with three kids under the age of 10. You're literally just looking to make a paycheck.

26:34You're not driving towards some North Star career-wise, like I'm gonna build a podcast and it's gonna be a big success. No, you didn't have any sort of direction. Okay. Absolutely not. And also, I think when you get to a point where you really screw up your own life, because nobody makes a vision board and is like, hey, let's put images of bankruptcy and divorce and alcoholism on it. It's on the back. Plus, friends and family had invested in the restaurant business. And so I can't exactly go around trashing and complaining. And so we're just like— You're looking to pay them back and get your head above water financially.

27:08So we're in survival mode. And you're pretty incredible and resourceful when you're in survival mode. And so a buddy calls me. We still have$800 ,000 in debt. We still have liens on the house three years later. We are still just making the ends meet. and a buddy calls me from college and says, hey, there's a person who is putting on an event in San Francisco that I know that's looking for somebody who's changed their job a lot. And I thought about you. And that's not really a compliment, but she said, they're offering two first-class plane tickets and two nights at the St. Regis. All you gotta do is talk about career change.

27:43Now, I had never given a speech on a stage in my life. I'd taken a public high school speaking class, but I had been a lawyer, a public defender in Manhattan. and so I'd worked in courtrooms, but I'd never given a speech. When you're that in debt, that sounds like a free vacation, right? And so I'm like, Chris, we're going to San Francisco. Mom, dad, come watch the kids. It sounds like a free vacation in any, no matter your situation, to be honest. Exactly. Well, I didn't really think through the part of 700 people in an auditorium. Right, right, yeah. And so I get out on that stage and it happens to be one of the first ever TEDx conferences.

28:17And they weren't a thing. Where do you get the balls for no stage fright and all that? Oh, you're watching a 21-minute-long panic attack. Like, I want you to look close at that TED Talk. I've got this neck rash that people get when they're drunk or they're nervous a minute in. Oh, yeah. No, I used to get that a ton. And I am darting around the stage, and this is not about the five-second rule. It's about career change. And I get to minute 19, and I forget how to end the talk. And I look out, and I'm like, oh, I know. I do this thing. I call it the five-second rule. The moment you have an instinct to act, you got to move within five seconds or else your brain will kill your motivation.

28:53Thank you very much. Oh, by the way, here's my email if you have questions. And I leave. Yeah. Now. You gave your email out publicly? Oh, I mean, I'm just a normal person trying to get a free vacation by giving a speech about something I don't know anything about. And so a year goes by. Did they pick up incidentals? Sorry. No. A year goes by. Seriously. This is now 2012. 2012, a year goes by, I have a job. Chris is still like trying to make, we still have liens on the house and TEDx decides to put it online. I don't know this. Another year goes by, 2013. I start getting emails at that email address.

29:33People start to write to me from around the world. Mel, I've used 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 to lose a hundred pounds, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 to get out of bed despite the depression. I used 54321 to stop myself from jumping over this ferry and find the courage to ask for help. And I was so blown away, this answers your question, Will, about like, at one point did you start talking about it? That while working a full-time job for several years, I would come home at night and pour a glass of wine and answer these emails from strangers. Because I felt obligated to figure out why does this thing work? Right, right. And so I started researching it and talking to people.

30:13And simultaneously building a following and a mailing list that you could then sort of transfer over into the podcast? Started to, not yet. Like 2012, you can scroll back manually through Instagram. You have to do it manually. It's just pictures of my kids and barbecues. And I didn't know normal people could make a living giving keynote speeches. And so people started to ask me to speak in 2013, 2014. and like, you know, I went and spoke for free. And then there was this moment in 2014 where, or 2013 rather, a person came up to me after speaking for free at a big women's conference and said, hey, did you get your check for this thing yet?

30:51And I was like, check? You got paid for this? Am I the only idiot here who's doing this for free? And that's when I'm like, I got to figure this out. Do you think that when you were younger that this kind of thinking was inside you the whole time when you were growing up? You just didn't know it. Yeah, that's what I wondered too. And like, because I remember your mom used to say, you said, I read that, she said, fix it yourself. Oh, you don't remember. Pull up your big girl panties and deal with it. Figure it out and fix it yourself or something like that, right? Yep, yep. I think so. You know, I come from like Midwestern farming stock.

31:27And so when the chores need to get done, the chores need to get done. Like that's, my mom grew up on a big farm. My dad grew up in a working class family. And so there's just sort of a pragmatism and a focus on doing things instead of talking about things. Yeah, so that was kind of in you then, you know, when you were in— Yeah, and touching bottom often brings out the best parts of ourselves. Oh, too. For me, it has. Touching bottom has completely revolutionized my life. Touching your bottom or touching bottom? Sir, what was the question? No, I do suspect that you do seem to have that...

32:09It doesn't feel like a leap. Now, of course, we're catching you after years of doing this and living this way and transforming your life, but I think that there is... I suspect there was a kernel of that, like, Sean, kind of what you were saying, that there was a kernel of that in there, and whether it's your Midwestern roots or your blue... I think also you're pretty sharp, you know, so... Well, yeah, you say you're a public defender in New York. I mean, so you're no ding-dong. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I guess not. I mean, I've done some pretty ding-dong things. No. She went to law school, for Christ's sake.

32:42Being smart doesn't mean you're actually smart about how you live your life. No, but you know discipline. You went through law school. Like, you know how to ask yourself to really bring it if you need to. Right, and you had ADHD when you were a kid, but you didn't know that it was ADHD, correct? Yeah. But I think sometimes that's a superpower later on in life. Like I just saw this thing like on TikTok or something a long time ago about, we talked about this the other day. I know I'm against the truth. I haven't read that book yet. And it said something about like childhood trauma or childhood something.

33:15Sometimes in children create ADD as a coping mechanism. They can't leave their house. They can't leave where they, right? Because that's your shelter and your food and your family and whatever. But because of some trauma where you can't leave, your brain's trying to constantly figure out how to problem solve and in doing so, you develop ADD or ADHD. I think there was Gabor Mate that talked about the connection before, between. Hang on, let me finish. Gabor Mate, I think, said that. Yeah, go ahead. I had a delicious Mate the other day. I had a Gamora. I had a Gamora latte too last time I was in Naples.

33:46What do you think of that, Mel? Listen, I will say this. Mel, to that ADHD thing, it sounds like from the little, again, that I know of it, but I know when it comes to people that I'm related to who have been diagnosed with having deficits when it comes to executive function. And I was going to say that earlier. There is that moment of, and it is one of the symptoms of a particular type of ADHD where you know that you have to do it and you can't start it. And that's an executive function deficiency. Oh, yeah, that's interesting. It can also, to Sean's point, it can also be a trauma response, that there's this freeze.

34:22Sean's point was so muddled. It was about TikTok, and he was like, something in someone's saying something. I was tracking. I was tracking. The highly intelligent here can track to what Sean's saying. I think like the demeaning him is a way that you deflected. Thank you, Mel. You're welcome, Darren. Well, so to the point on ADHD, it's super interesting. The majority of women today, because women and men and boys and girls experience ADHD at the exact same levels. But women and girls go profoundly underdiagnosed because when it was discovered in the 1970s, they only studied boys. Oh, really? Yes.

34:57And so when a boy had, this is going to explain marriages. This is going to explain your sisters. Like just buckle up because this is one of those things that every time I explain it, people go, holy fuck, that's me or that's my wife. Holy. And so here's the short backstory. So they only study boys. And when boys have ADHD, which is like a structural thing that's not working in the switching mechanism of your brain, you can focus. You And so boys are a little bit more fidgety. And you kind of notice it because they're fidgety, they interrupt, they have trouble directing their focus. Girls have the opposite symptoms.

35:37They tend to daydream, they get quieter, and they get harder on themselves. Now here's what gets interesting and really life-changing for people to learn. If you have undiagnosed ADHD or dyslexia or executive functioning, what happens as the primary symptom is you develop anxiety. because you are sitting in a classroom or in a setting where you're being asked to do things all day long that your brain can't structurally do right now. And so anxiety develops. So there's a huge generation of women, they call us the lost generation, of women that were diagnosed with anxiety in our high school and our college years and then medicated with something to quell the anxiety.

36:17But the underlying issue was always undiagnosed ADHD and dyslexia. Well, it's funny you say that, Mel. So I had a conversation with my own dad because I was talking, there was somebody in my family who encountered this. And this is within the last three months. And I said, you know, when I was a teenager and when I was, you know, a young teenager, especially adolescent in the early 80s, I would get tested a bunch. And they say, well, he's functioning very well. We don't understand why he's not doing his work. And I was kind of labeled a bad kid. And I said, dad, you know, and this is something, a conversation I had with my dad at almost, I was almost 55.

36:52at the time. I'm now 55. My dad's 86. And I said, I now recognize in hearing what this doctor said, this behavior in myself. And I, and I feel like, and of course, you know, I've, I, you, yeah, you, what ends up happening is you either, you either get prescribed stuff. I'm talking for, for a boy and I can't speak, but, but, uh, or you self-medicate. Yes. Um, and that is one of the, to try to quell the symptoms. Is there something one can do for attention deficit that is different than medication? I mean, is there therapy that one can go through? It's a great question. There's all kinds of things you can do.

37:37And I think kind of just understanding the way that your brain works or learns helps you do all kinds of things, whether there's systems for organization, There's certain types of interventions that they do with kids that really help develop and train. Like our son ended up, and this is how I found out at the age of 47 that I was both dyslexic and had ADHD. Wow. The same way that most women do. Our kids start struggling in school like you did, Will. They get labeled a behavioral issue. You then go through all of the neuropsych evaluation testing, and then you sit back and go, huh. Yeah, that's me.

38:15You look like me. And I literally turned to my pediatrician and said, you know, Mark, why didn't you, like, why, do you think I have ADHD? And he's like, Mel, of course you have ADHD. You're the most ADHD parent I know. I'm like, why didn't you tell me? He's like, I'm not your doctor. Is it something that you inherit from your parents? They say it can be. They actually say that it can be impacted by what's going on when you're in utero and the stress levels of the parent or the mom and whether or not she's under a lot of stress because it relates to your fight or flight nervous system as well.

38:52And it impacts, the way it was explained to me, because again, like everything in life, it's like bad things need to happen. And then I realize, okay, I'm fucked. I got to figure this out. And then I turn it into a research project. And then I try to explain what I've learned in the simplest ways. So anybody else, if I can save them the headache and the heartache that I went through for 30, 40 years, not knowing what I was really dealing with, just like you will, not knowing what you're dealing with and self-medicating and acting out and feeling hypercritical of yourself. If I could just know what this thing is, that I'm not deficient, I just have a brain that works differently.

39:31And with ADHD, I would go to this, you know when you are in college or high school and you're like, all right, I got to study. And you know you can go to the library where you're going to see your friends or you go to the stacks. And so I would go to the stacks and I'm like, okay, I got to study. And I would sit down and I'd be ready to like lock in. And honest to God, I could not for the life of me, just like what you were talking about, Will. I couldn't make myself do it. And worse, it's like I could hear the mouse pooping in the corner. I could hear my stomach. And so that mechanism that like an orchestra conductor, think about all the input of sound like an orchestra warming up.

40:07ADHD, there's this conductor in your brain that's like tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. Okay, let's bring it all down. Now let's lift up the sound of the strings only. If you don't have that little conductor in your brain, the whole world sounds like an orchestra warming up. And you can't both direct your attention in certain instances, and you can't silence other input. And that's kind of what's happening. That's fascinating. Yeah, it's super fascinating, but there's lots you can do and don't have to do medication. Right. So to that point, half of the fix is actually getting the diagnosis, knowing what you have, and it's your choice whether you want to medicate or not, but at least you know what it is, is you can start to search for a remedy that might be different than medication, or at least just start adjusting your behavior and seeing, trying some different stuff on.

40:58Yeah. Yeah. And having some grace for yourself, like it drives my husband crazy that the faucet's running or that my sink, I don't know what your guys' bathrooms look like, but my husband's sink looks like the sink at a Zen hotel. Mine looks like you tipped over a Walgreens aisle on top of it. Still? Oh my God, yes. Really? Is the cap off the toothpaste on you all the time? Yeah, kind of. And you have dusty cosmetics all over the place? That gets JB. Let's get it together. But you know, Mel, I learned all these... I learned all these tricks along the way that I would do. And I was telling somebody before that I have a thing about keys in my wallet.

41:47And I don't lose. So I have a dish. And everywhere I live and everywhere I go, everything goes back in the same spot. My bathroom is very clean. And I have taught myself all these things to do, these little routines that help keep me. Create order. Yeah, that create order. That's awesome. Because the mind is like this. so the order in the environment helps your mind settle. I love that. And I have a friend, I have one friend, he deals with anxiety in this way and he ends up putting, he has a bottle of Xanax and he puts it in the elevator just in case it breaks down. Well, you should actually send him this episode.

42:18He keeps a bottle in there. No, Will, you should send him this episode. You should send him this episode because the single biggest coping mechanism for anxiety is avoidance. And the more you avoid something, the bigger the anxiety gets. Because when you avoid something, You're telling yourself, I can't handle this. That's what you're doing. So 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 helps. It's Sean. It's Sean. Yeah. And we will be right back.

42:47And now back to the show. Tell us how, is let them something that is a cousin to what we're talking about or directly a part of it? It's a, again, great question. So, you know, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 helps you push through all the resistance, the fear, the hesitation, the anxiety to take the action that changes everything. But I always wonder why the hell are we so resistant anyway? Well, it turns out for me anyway, and seems like for millions and millions of people that this book has resonated with, the main source of resistance and fear in our lives is our fear of other people. And the let them theory was something that I discovered and it has fundamentally changed my life.

43:36Like I feel like I have lived my life backwards for the first 54 years because I have been consumed by making sure other people are happy, by worrying about their opinions, navigating my day-to-day life based on people's expectations, their moods. what they want versus truly learning that there's a different way to live. And the let them theory is ultimately a modern version of Stoicism, Buddhism, the serenity prayer. It's a book about control and power. What you have control over and what you do not. And two simple words, let them, will free you from the exhausting cycle of trying to manage people's thoughts, their opinions, manage their expectations, there's a better way to live.

44:24Let them. Let them think about it. What's the basic tenet of it? Sorry. Is it let them have their judgment? Let them be upset. It's none of my business. Let me just take care of number one. Well, here's yes and. So there's a second part, let me. But the basic tenet, Will, is that in life, there are only three things you can control. Only three. You can control what you think about, you can control what you do or don't do, and you can control what you do in response to your emotions. Right. And any psychologist will tell you, when you focus on things you can't control, and the number one thing in life that you will never be able to control is other people, what they say, what they do, what they believe, whether or not they change, whether or not they're motivated, whether or not they're anxious, whether or not they get sober.

45:13You can't control other people, and yet we exhaust ourselves and waste so much time and energy allowing meaningless shit and other people's stuff to drain your most precious resource. Well, Mel, and part of that too is you also can't control, I can't, there's not enough time for me to go around and everybody I meet and tell them how they need to treat me as well. That's kind of part of it for me. That's interesting. And I was talking about this this morning with some people. I was saying, we've talked about it on here before. Part of that also for me is, and it's people and it's things, I can't be at the effect of circumstances because I got to make my own weather in a sense.

46:00Because if I'm at the effect of circumstances, man, that's tough sledding. That is really tough sledding. Do you know what I mean? So are you talking about like if you're in your car and traffic builds up and for most people, they're going to grip the wheel and get pissed off about the traffic And the truth is you can't actually control the traffic. Yeah. And so why would you allow something like that to drain your time and energy? 100%. And I'll take it a step further. And this is sometimes where I lose people. I'll say when there's a lot of traffic and you've come a long way and then people are trying to get in and you're like, and most people are like, fuck you, I've been waiting for a mile.

46:38I'm not gonna let you in. And if you let people in, I guarantee you traffic will open up for you it works for me every time the more I give it away the more I go go ahead go ahead it works every time it's the craziest thing I don't know what to tell you it's not just the traffic opens up something opens up inside you you recognize well that's getting to love and then you get that works with love too it does but it's something else first because most of us are really selfish and when we say let them let them in traffic's either gonna open up or it's not And I do believe what you believe, that it does start to shift things.

47:15But what it shifts first is you recognize that your energy and your time is worth something. And when you start to value and protect your time and energy from people's expectations, people's moods, people's rude behavior, traffic, long lines, you value and have more time and energy. You become more in control and more empowered as a human being. and then everything starts to change because you're not at the effect of all the shit going on outside of you. That's right. And, yes, and if I'm stingy with my attention, with my love, with my kindness, I will get stinginess from the universe in return.

47:56That is a lock for me anyway. And I think that feeling of feeling unloved is generally because I'm not pushing out enough. And the, anyway, sorry. No, no, go ahead. Well, I didn't mean to cut you. Sean, what was your question? No, Sean, any theater stories? Let him, Sean, let him. Go ahead, what was your question, Sean? She did give you a good one up there on stage, didn't know how to end it. She gave you a great theater story. What do you do, Mel, as far as let them go in this world that we live in about social media and comments and people coming at you with, what's that? Nothing. Let him. You know, it just sounds great.

48:41Yeah. No, I was going to say, with people, like for you, I'm sure you get all kinds of comments. And I know people, other people, they get, you know, comments that they can't, they thrive on the positive comments and they, you know, lose themselves on the negative ones. So what about let them for those? And for yourself, by the way, for yourself. Well, you can never control what somebody else thinks, Sean. Right. So let them think what they're going to think. Let them not like you. I just wanted to put that out there. No, no, I mean that because. It's what's destroying a lot of society today. People actually put weight into what people say about them and to them on social media and everywhere else.

49:16It goes even more than that, Sean, because let's just unpack this. Let's say that you are pulling out Instagram and you're about to post something and you pick a photo and you're like, oh, not that photo. And then you put the filter on it and then you go to write the caption and then you put the emoji and then you backspace. You're thinking, is this too much? Is this a, for whom? Before you even express yourself, you're already jumping into the brain of another human being and trying to anticipate what they're going to think. And here's the truth. There is nothing you can post that will actually guarantee somebody has a positive or negative thought because you can't control it.

49:50Yeah, right. And even if you could, you can't get them all. Yeah, just let them do what they're going to do. Let them unfollow me. Let them misunderstand. Let them be disappointed. Let them let them let them. Way to go, Mel. Here come the dick pics. Yeah, let them. Let them. I don't have to look at, let me decide what I'm going to look at. Here we go. I'll take them, let them. The poor interns that are now in the DMs. Thanks, Wes. That's so funny. Okay, so wait, I got some good stuff here. Wait. Oh, what's the most shocking coaching request you've ever received? Because you do private coaching too.

50:23Oh, I don't do any private coaching. Oh, I thought you did. I thought you did one-on-one coaching with like wealthy people. No, no, no, no, no, no. No, don't have time for that anymore. But the most shocking request, um well i got a request none of them are shocking yeah they really aren't because when it's not you it's easy to give people advice because you're not emotionally attached to what's happening and if you listen closely to anybody you can really tell what they're grappling with and what most of us are grappling with is either the fear of disappointing somebody yeah or the fear that if you do this thing, somehow people are going to judge you and you're going to end up alone.

51:03And so everything comes back down to this fear of what other people are going to think about you and how their actions dictate your value. And here's the secret. The secret is you have to like you and you will only like yourself if you can learn how to let other people be unhappy and learn how to let people be disappointed and let people have their opinions and let me really be clear about the decisions that make me proud of myself. Because when you're proud of yourself, you kind of don't give a shit what other people do. Right, okay, so for a lot of people that are fans of yours or people that read your books or whatever, you come off as this fearless, you have fearlessness and confidence and so you must have some self-doubt about something.

51:53Every day. I was literally sitting here going, am I going to have a moment where I kind of have an accident in my pants like Jason did in the green room, you know, in Colbert? Oh, that's a great callback. Because I'm so nervous about meeting these guys. That's so great. Like, I literally... Yeah, well, actually, you and I are going to be on Jimmy Fallon on the 17th of September, and I'm sorting through your garbage to see if you've hidden underwear in there under a Diet Coke can. Get the DC out of the way, man. I can't wait to meet you. Well, I was going to ask this same question. Like, are you enjoying that your state of confidence and sort of leaning forward into things actually creates the privilege of new anxieties?

52:38As you reach and hurdle forward, you're now seeing a whole new level of complexities and challenges that are a result of you leaning forward and breaking through. In the open, too, like to a broader audience. You know, I'm really grateful that all this happened later in life. Yeah. I really am because, you know, when you go through an experience where you literally almost lose everything that matters to you, whether that's your marriage or your family or your home or your sanity. Or in your case, all of it, right? Yeah, all of it. All of it, and being a parent, I mean, that must have ratcheted it up, too.

53:17Worried about the welfare of your kids. Oh, my God. I can't imagine. Our kids would come downstairs at night after Chris and I had been fighting and screaming at each other, and they would find us collapsed in chairs, like hungover. Yeah. That's how they, like, you know you're not winning at the parenting game when your kids wake you up so they can catch the bus. Yeah. Like, it was not good. And so all of this that you see now, whether it's the massive scale of the podcast or the number one book, I mean, this book is on track to be the most successful nonfiction book ever launched. Six million copies in six months.

53:54Amazing. Wow. That's amazing. And part of it is because I'm just reminding you guys of what you know to be true. Like, stoicism is not a new idea. Viktor Frankl, man's search for meaning. What's happening out there is not where the power is. your powers and your response to it. But these are all intellectual ideas. What I love about saying let them and then let me, which is let them is where you release the control over something you can't control. And let me is where you take the power back and focus on what you can control, which is your response to what's happening. This is the tool, but it reminds people of what they know to be true since the beginning of time.

54:33And what I'm grateful for is that having almost lost everything I care about and having just clawed my way out of debt and built this just brick by brick over the last 16 years, I have stayed laser focus on what really matters. I live in the middle of nowhere in Vermont. I have no interest in the bigness aspect of all of it because you guys know the second something hits, everybody thinks they know what you should do next. Everybody sees something bigger for you. I would like more time with my husband and my kids. I would like to, you know, enjoy some of this success, meaning I'm not actually working all the time.

55:11And so for me, I think the anxiety or the issues that I face is more around just saying no and letting people have their expectations about what the podcast should become or what I should do next and staying laser focused, not on up here, but on what's right in front of me right now. because if you lose sight of what got you to where you are, you basically blow up everything you created. And so I am staying very focused on waking up every day and just making decisions that make me feel proud of myself and doing the best that I can and giving people a little bit of grace and focusing on what I can control and what I can't.

55:55And then the rest will take care of itself, you know? I love that. what's the single thing that people think will make them happy but won't, in your opinion? I think the single thing that people think will make them happy that doesn't is achieving the thing. There's so much research that, you know, when you get the million dollars, you're gonna be happy. When you win the race, when you get the person, it's the pursuit of it. Everybody needs something that gets you out of bed. Everybody needs something that you're excited about, whether it's video games or it's bird watching or it's volunteering.

56:32If you don't have something that you're pursuing that's bigger than you, then you're always going to be stuck in that sort of survival autopilot, same old, same old moment. You've got to give yourself an opportunity to get proud of yourself, as you said earlier, and that's usually a pursuit of something. Yeah, but I think that for me, I would imagine, I would suggest that part of that is a spiritual experience. Very much so. And I think that that is, that's the truth. It's funny, I was watching sort of... Love Island? Yeah, have you seen it? It's the episode you're on, Jason. Yeah. It's on... No, it was the sort of a...

57:12The few days leading up to the Open, the British Open, the Gulf, and Scotty Scheffler gave this press conference that I found to be fascinating. And he was being asked all these questions. He's world number one. He has been dominating golf for the last couple of years. And he gave this answer and the room was silent. And he sort of said, part of me thinks I spent all my life to win these tournaments, to win this tournament, the Byron Nelson in my hometown, to have a few minutes of like, yeah. And then I realized, what's the point? And he went on from there and I found it absolutely fascinating.

57:48And I go, here is a guy who is at this crossroads and he's having this deep and almost spiritual experience where he's realizing that there's got to be, he's looking for perspective. He's gaining it and he's looking for more. You know, our buddy Rob Meter, all those jokes, perspective is a really hard thing to get if you don't have it. And hearing him, hearing this guy who's at the top, I mean, the millions of dollars. He's basically saying like, now what? Well, yeah. And he's saying, and why? And he actually said a few times, JB, he said, what's the point? and it was honestly it was chilling almost listening to him and he wasn't poor me and he was very happy for all the success and he felt he was very grateful rather and yet at the same time he could see that he was struggling with that idea and there's something really really fascinating about that to me Mel this has been a blast you are brilliant we've taken up way too much of your time brilliant brilliant look you have a whole studio behind you and you stopped to talk to us about it It's above my garage in Vermont.

58:53That's this one. This is so cool. Yeah. We got to have you always come to Boston. Although you don't go anywhere. We got, you guys do stuff. If you ever want it, you have an open invitation to the Mel Robbins podcast. Thank you. That's so nice. Oh, man. I mean it. I'd love to have you on. Pick you apart on live camera. This would be amazing. No, I'm just kidding. No, I do. I'm really looking forward to meeting you on the 17th. That'll be awesome. I'm looking forward to meeting you too. Thank you, Sean, for selecting me. I literally was so moved. And I can tell you the cheese ball thing now because I hate it when people come on and gush and fan.

59:26But you caused so many problems in my marriage, you guys, because when I first started listening to you, like everybody did, I would come home because I was so jealous of your friend group. And I thought, why are my friends boring? And I would come home to my husband and be like, you need to start picking on me. We're not interesting enough. And it turns out picking on your spouse is not a great thing for a marriage. You gotta let them be who they are, right? It's our love language. It's our love language. I love that. And thank you for allowing us as your listeners to feel like we are part of this friend group because to have a friend group where you can really see that you guys love each other deeply and still jab at each other, it is a very rare thing.

1:00:13And it's a gift to experience it in our lives, to listen to you guys that way. so thank you for welcoming us in. Thank you. Well, thank you for saying that. And truly, truly, thank you for coming on this podcast. It's so illuminating. You're a very big deal. I know, I wish this was two hours. I feel like I've learned a lot. I know, right? Well, maybe we can open up those private sessions. I know, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to DM you for a one-on-one. Just a dick pic, okay? Just a dick pic. You'll know who it's from, that's for sure. Thanks, Mel. I appreciate it. Thank you, Mel. Bye, guys. Thank you, Mel.

1:00:47Bye, guys. Thanks, guys. See you soon Bye

1:00:53What a pleasure That was awesome I literally was just talking about her the other day That's amazing She's been on my list for a couple years now But she Over 6 million copies of that book Let them It's amazing It's also amazing when people like her Another example would be Oprah These people who lend their brains to the masses for what they've learned or discovered and they pass it on to other people, hoping they can help other people too. I love that kind of stuff. Kind of like if I can do it, you can do it kind of thing. Yeah, what a gift that she's, as a result of her own personal circumstance and touching bottom, as she was saying, and developing these coping skills out of necessity and desperation, that she found herself with a vehicle to share all of that knowledge and enlightenment with so many millions of people and obviously has helped so many folks.

1:01:56What a great use of your life, right? We're all going to look back when we're old and gray and did we use our years right? And what a great success. And you listen to her talk and it's kind of like, oh yeah, well that makes sense. How did I not know that? It's like all common sense basically. Yeah, well oftentimes. But we just need to be told. Yeah, I mean, I think we all have some coping skills in us, but maybe they're just sort of dormant until you hear somebody put them to words and you go, oh, somebody just articulated what I kind of feel in me but didn't know if I was allowed to kind of use it.

1:02:28Somebody kind of puts it into words and puts it in somewhat of a scientific form. You're like, oh, great, yeah, let's use that. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Guys, can I share some? Oh, boy. Can I share some British words I've learned while I'm here? uh sure I guess so I mean how much of a choice do we have not much it's gonna take 30 seconds so we have a dad joke before you get into your bi section sure you want one yeah oh I like it we've got a book listener just don't don't rifle through just stick your finger on a certain page I literally just opened it up yeah here it comes a good elevator joke works on so many levels great love it great love it love it thank you and into our bi section now and now speaking of that these are the three things I've heard you take the lift, I'll take the apples and pears I didn't know apples and pears meant stairs that's Cockney, right?

1:03:24and then if somebody calls you give me a call on my dog and bone I got a call on my dog and bone I didn't know phone was dog and bone you're saying five words instead of one I don't really get it, but go ahead and then the last one this is a true story Somebody brought in bagels the other day at rehearsal for Good Night Oscar at the Barber Town. I can't wait. Look who's back. He's a man. Just when you thought he went away, he's back. Look who's back. Anyway, so he brought these bagels from a store, and this is the truth. And the way they spelled bagel was B-E-I-G-E-L. And that was the brand name.

1:04:09Huh. And how would you pronounce that? How would you pronounce it? I think it's, yeah, I think it'd pronounce it. Bang. Bang. Bang. Would you like a something? Bang. Would you like a bagel? Would you like bagel? Smart. Less.

1:04:30Smart. Less. Smartless is 100 % organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbaco, Michael Grant Terry, and Rob Armjarf.

1:04:48Smartless.