"RE-RELEASE: Matthew Rhys"

22:13And it's very modern these days. But twice a year, all the children of Wales will gather. And it's a competition now. but you're very much encouraged to get on stage in some art form or another and compete for your school or your county or whatever. Oh, wow. So, yeah, so from a very early age, you're kind of kicked onto a stage, whether you want to. Really? Yeah, yeah. And now, a word from our sponsor. This episode is brought to you by SoFi, the everything app for smarter money. Everything in one place to move your money forward. Banking, investing, borrowing, and more. Make your first move with SoFi Checking and Savings, competitive APY, no account fees, and a direct deposit bonus.

22:57Terms apply. Get started today at SoFi.com slash smart money. SoFi, get your money right. SoFi Checking and Savings is offered through SoFi Bank, N.A., member FDIC. I'm Livvy Dunn, All-American gymnast and Viore athlete. When you travel and train as much as I do, you find happiness where you are. On the mat or on the sand, movement and comfort are essential. That's why I live in Performance Joggers by Biore. Made from DreamNet fabric that's made of 89 % recycled materials. Effortlessly soft and made to move as much as I do. My happiness starts here, in the softest joggers on the planet. Get 20 % off your first purchase at biore.com slash libby.

23:43That's V-U-O-R-I dot com slash L-I-V-V-Y. Exclusions apply. Not only will you receive 20 % off your first purchase, but enjoy free shipping on U.S. orders over$75 and free returns. Go to viore.com slash Libby and discover the full versatility of Viore clothing. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. A rug shouldn't just fit your room. It should make your home feel finished. Ernesta creates designer-quality rugs custom-fit to the exact size of your space, so every room feels beautifully pulled together. Explore Ernesta's range of options, all ready to be custom cut, finished, and delivered to your door in as little as two weeks.

24:24Start with five samples for just$10 and get$50 toward your rug when you order. Visit Ernesta.com today. That's E-R-N-E-S-T-A dot com. If you live with diabetes or deal with low blood sugars, you know the drill. Your blood sugar drops and you need to bring it up fast. That's where Glow Gummies come in. Delicious glucose gummies made with fast-acting dextrose to raise blood sugar quickly. They're soft, vegan, gluten-free, dye-free, and don't melt or stick to your teeth. Finally, going low doesn't have to mean reaching for another chalky glucose tablet. Head to GlowGummies.com. That's G-L-O-W-Gummies.com.

25:00And use code PODCAST20 for 20 % off. All right, back to the show.

25:08Sean Hayes:So you grow up, you're speaking well, obviously you speak English as well. They speak both there. The signage and stuff in Wales is delightful. It's, you know, one in English and one in Welsh. And it's tough to read. It's a hotbed of contention, yeah. What's the distance between English and Welsh? I mean, I've absolutely no idea what it sounds like, what it looks like. Yeah, talk a little bit in Welsh just so we can hear it. I'll just get, one of the oldest poems in Welsh is about 600 BC. And it just says,

25:42It's Lord of the Rings, the elves. It's how the elves speak in Lord of the Rings. Yes, well Tolkien based Elfish on Welsh. Oh, I just made that up. Is that true? Oh, yes it is, yeah. Are you kidding me? I mean, I'm a 54-year-old man that is not living in a cave. Why have I never, ever heard Welsh spoken?

25:58Sean Hayes:It's a golden cave. Let's be honest. Yes, a beautiful cave. I've heard tell. Well, yes, one cave to bind us all. I don't understand how that's gone by me. Well, I do. Well, I think, listen, I don't want to get on the English bashing soapbox, but the English, you know, we'll do a quick history. The English did their best to kind of eradicate all the Celtic languages for the Scots, the Irish, the Welsh, the Cornish. You know, they weren't too Celtic friendly. So there was a lot of stamping out of the language and the culture. Wow. And was it influenced by folks more northern? Like, was there a Viking influence to all of those Celtic languages?

26:43I mean, there's the great evolution. It's Germanic-based. And then, you know, I think the Keltoi were a Spanish tribe initially. And they, you know, then the Gauls got involved and amalgamated. And then they, you know, set up camp in Britain. And then the Romans came. We're all such babies here in America.

27:01Sean Hayes:Well, you don't learn any, even if you did pay attention, you know, even if you did in America go to school not on a massage bus, you learned history. How dare you? You learned history. But at least in Canada, we had to take British history. So we knew, we were always studying the fucking Battle of Culloden and all that shit. Is the empire still stamped down your throat in Canada? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, I haven't lived there in 30 years, so I'm not sure. This is a guy who reads World War II books on the can, going to bed. It's not as bad as Justin Theroux, who will watch World War II documentaries through the face hole of a massage table on his iPhone.

27:45Okay? He takes it to a new level, this lust for World War II.

27:50Sean Hayes:And he lines it just for comfort and stuff. He lines it with his discarded sleeves just to protect his face. Just to pad the ring. So, Matthew, so you're in, you're what, you're sort of 17 and you go to Radha. Yeah, yeah, went to Radha. Royal Academy of Dramatic Art in London, which is the preeminent classical acting school in the world. That's what I tell everyone. Yeah. I've told my parents they allow me to go. It's like everybody who goes to Radha, they'll tell you. It's the same way with everybody who's ever gone to Oxford. Make sure to let that be known. Yes, we'll drop it in. You know, they're all cool.

28:28You walk in and they've left the honor boards are still up in the foyer. So like, you know, has Peter O'Toole and Anthony Hopkins.

28:35Sean Hayes:It's incredible. I did a summer course there years ago. Did you? 1987. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Shakespeare? Yeah, I did the whole thing for a few years there. Come on. At Radha. I sure did. How was that? It was amazing, man. What did you do? You seem so dumb. It was amazing. Is there a lot of pressure when you go to a school like that to make it? I mean, obviously you did, but I mean, is there just sort of culturally, do you feel they're like, oh, my God, okay, so I'm in RADA now. I got to maintain our batting average. Or is there a lot of people that go there and then go into other fields? Is that more common?

29:13It is. It is. It's a very small intake. There's only 30 to each year, 15 men, 15 women. Every year. Yeah. Yeah. So it's very small. So you feel the pressure immediately. That's small. Did they do it on a bus? Yes, like a massage bus. Yeah, it just kind of goes around and around to Piccadilly Circus. We had 30 on the massage bus comfortably. That's what I heard.

29:37Sean Hayes:And then you guys stopped for lunch at Jinkies on Ventura, right? Yeah, some reading at the Bodhi Tree. But it's very exclusive. But here you are, you're a kid from Cardiff. Were you the only Welsh person in your year? Yes, I was. I was. I had a friend who was a year older, and then Michael Sheen had just come through and kind of blazed a trail and was kind of, you know, setting the West End on fire. So there was this, you know, there was the flag of Wales is the dragon. So there was a kind of a dragon firmly stamped as to, you know, the Welsh are resurging again. But, you know, like I said, Anthony Hopkins was the chairman of the board at the time, so he'd be in and out, and he'd just done Shadowlands.

30:24So, you know, there was this great air that, you know, anything was possible, really. I think one of the things that the Welsh and Wales suffered from enormously is small person syndrome. And at that time, there was just this little bubble of a few, you know, Welsh people doing incredibly well. Catherine Zito was bursting to the ranks. So I was there at this renaissance when anything felt possible. You know what my question is going to be? I can ask it now or later. Oh, hang on. Did you ever forget a line on stage? What's your favorite theater story, Matthew? Yeah, because you've got to have one or two.

30:58Yes, I have quite a few, in fact. No, but possibly when I was, because I was doing theater for the first five years, solidly. And then at 25, I thought I got the role that was going to change my life and my career. It didn't. But I got to play Benjamin Braddock in a stage adaptation of The Graduate with Kathleen Turner as my Mrs. Robinson. Wow. And to me, it was the first real introduction to Hollywood because I'd never experienced anything like it in every sense, like PAs. I was like, what's a PA? Who has a PA? It was just incredible. Anyway, fast forward, halfway through the run, it got a little, you know, there were a few bedroom antics in the production and there's one moment where I jump in bed and we're simulating sex and I have to kind of plunge my face between her legs as if I'm pleasuring her.

31:55Sure, sure. She did have the obligatory kind of flesh-toned underwear on. But anyway, I had a streaming head cold. Sure. And being the malicious vindictive type that I am, I wouldn't let the end of study go on. So I went on and I had, my nose was just streaming. My cold, my nose was streaming. And I couldn't, I didn't want to kind of sniff heavily during, you know, during dialogue. Never a great idea. Yeah, and I go, oh, I know what I'll do. I'll just clear my nose in that quiet moment when I'm between, I know. And I said, well, I didn't think. So I jumped in and I'm between Miss Turner's legs and I just went and inhaled deeply and the covers kind of shot up.

32:39And she's looking down and we're like, what the fuck, what the fuck are you doing? And I was like, oh, oh no, I'm not, no, I'm not, I'm not sniffing, I'm not sniffing, I have a cold, I have a cold, I'm not sniffing you. You're not trying wine out. but no, no. Oh my God, no way. Yes, I always live with this deep regret of that moment. That and when someone, there was a paparazzi photo, when the moment she took off her robe and this paparazzi photographer stood up and photographed her and a big flash went off, I know. And I looked at her on stage in this moment and I was like, oh, we should stop.

33:15And she came in with the next line. And I always remember thinking, regardless that she was a consummate professional I'm going to come with the next line I'm going to carry on I bitterly regret in that moment not stopping the production because the next day in a tabloid newspaper Oh lord Yeah A huge photograph Head to toe Yeah Yeah I was ashamed I was ashamed Oh my god Well you know

33:39Sean Hayes:But it was Yeah It's a tabloid and the headline just said Welshman you know just fucking cowers under pressure Yes You know what I mean Yeah, spineless Welshman does nothing. We'll leave it to the English tabloids to say that. Yeah, I love that. Oh my God. So Matthew, so you did, as you said, did you play another great Welshman? You played Dylan Thomas, didn't you? I did. At one point? I did. Yes. Oh my God, it feels so long ago. It was about 12 years ago now. Yeah. He had this incredible moment, the poet Dylan Thomas had this incredible moment in his life where he was having an affair. That part was played by Keira Knightley and Sienna Miller's playing my wife.

34:25And Cillian Murphy is the husband of Keira Knightley. And this is all true, that he burst in on Dylan Thomas with a machine gun because it was during the Second War. He came in with a machine gun. He opened fire. He like, and then missed everyone and took out a grenade, pulled the pin and the grenade didn't go off. and it was that story that we told in Edge of Love. No way. Yeah, it was an unbelievable story that he survived and then tragically drank himself to death. Wow, talk about the worst assassin you could ever imagine. Yes, and I was like, I was talking to Killian about it, I was like, but you're a commando.

35:05You're a trained commando. Do you want to play this part? So you do not live in Wales, correct? I do not, no. I now live in leafy Brooklyn. Leafy Brooklyn.

35:17Sean Hayes:Yeah, so you live in Brooklyn, but you come over, you do theater, as you say, for basically five years. And then you move over to America to do what? What was the first thing that brought you over? The first thing I did, I was doing a play. I was actually doing a two-hander at the Royal Court with Paul Bettany called One More Wasted Year. And everyone called it One More Wasted Evening because it wasn't good. My own family said as much. It was terrible. Didn't they really? Yeah. So they come backstage. What were they saying to you backstage? My uncle was the first person of the entire group and he's an old sea captain, very salty.

35:51And he went, well, that was shit.

35:57Yeah. And I couldn't argue. I went, you're absolutely right. And then, yeah. Stephen Daldry, who was the artistic director at the time, and Preston Knight, came in and went, darlings, was it the play we need to see right now? Probably not. Should we go to a party?

36:14Sean Hayes:That's hysterical. Oh, God. Wow, that's so hardcore. So you come over with Paul Bettany, you do that. Sorry, yes. Yeah, an American agent came to see the play, and he said, do you want to come over for pilot season? And I had no idea what it was. And I said yes, and then came to L.A. And then the first audition he set me up with, it was Julie Tainwell's first movie, Titus, with Anthony Hopkins and Jessica Lange. And I just thought, oh, my God, Los Angeles is truly the promised land where you just turn up and get these huge movies and everything's great. Yeah, you just sign up. And then I did that.

36:46Yeah. And I shot that in Rome for six months and then I went back to L.A. and didn't get a job for a decade. Yeah. I thought, here's another time my career is going to be made. And it was just like, meh, meh. Yeah.

36:57Sean Hayes:Just paid a few bills. Isn't that amazing? I love that feeling of like, yeah, it's going to be like this forever. Yeah, yeah. It's like the Klondike. I arrived, it was like the Klondike where they throw you these scripts and go, this is being made for MGM with this as a lead, and you're like, oh my, and you're allowing me to audition for this? This is madness. All I have to do is get the part and I'm set for life. You never know anything. You really don't. I mean, look at us three morons. Like, each of us have had great success, as I knock on wood, we're super grateful for in our careers. But then, you know, this thing comes along, it's more successful than anything we've ever done and it was just us three idiots chatting during COVID.

37:34Right. You never know.

37:36Sean Hayes:The world basically was saying, we don't want you guys to do the thing that you think that you're good at. Yeah, the things you're professional at. Yeah, you can keep doing that a little bit if you want, but we just want you to be that you're, we want to hear your idiotic thoughts on stupid shit. Yeah, just like, you know, wonder at the moment where Sean learns that Wales was, you know where Wales got its name, Sean? Where? That's where they made the first harpoon. That's not true. That's not true. It's not true. That's not true. Correct. But you bought it for a second. Yes. And that's what they tune in to hear.

38:08because he'll fuck with me and he'll say something that's completely not true and then he'll say something that's completely true. I never know what to believe. It's tough. I know, Angel. But wait a minute. They did shoot Moby Dick in Wales with Gregory Peck. And my grandfather worked on it. Is that true? Is that true? Is that true? Yeah, they built three large rubber whales. And one of them, I know, this is a great joke, it's like they came to Wales. And one of them sailed off into the Irish Sea, which I think is fantastic. I have a whale that needs a rubber, but go ahead. Hey-oh. My grandfather caught Moby Dick but there's a cure for it now.

38:42Hey-oh. Wait, wait, wait. What did your grandfather do on that? His friend Edgar was a carpenter and they kind of helped out in the framing of the whales. I love that. That's cool. Wait, I want to ask about Carrie and I want to know, like, did you meet each other? Because I'm an idiot. I don't know. Did you meet before Americans or on the set and how did that go and when did you know the sparks flew? Just one question at a time. Because I can get easily confused. Because I love Kerry. I love Kerry. So do I. We met quite a few years before the Americans in Rustic Canyon at a kickball party that Jennifer Grey hosted.

39:23And I had no idea what kickball was.

39:25Sean Hayes:Boy, all of that adds up, by the way. Yes, yes. How I just amble through life, bumping into the furniture and ending up going, how did I get here? How did this happen? and we were the last two to leave we were in the parking lot and I was trying to open a bottle of beer for her with a key and failing and I asked for her number then and then and that was and that was all I can remember she was moving she was moving to New York the two days after that on the Tuesday it was a Sunday and that's all I still remember and then the road to the Americans was a long crazy one and then on the first day of fight training I said to Kerry I said oh we've met we've met before actually She was like, no, no, we definitely haven't.

40:06Also, it had been years. It had been years at this point. And I said, yeah, yeah, we met before. We met at a kickball party in Rustic Canyon. She went, I know who you are. And you left me a message on my answering machine, a very drunken message. And I went, did I? I'm so sorry. I had no memory of leaving a long, rambling, incoherent, drunken message, which is probably what I should think of. No way, did you really? Wait, can I be a super moron? Are you guys together?

40:34Sean Hayes:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. Wait, did you, so you got together, you started working together. You thought I would just bring up that they're just good friends. No, because they worked together on The Americans for six years. That's what I'm saying. That's what I was asking. But then, but during that, you guys fell in love, got married, had a kid? We did, yes. Yeah, but I want to know what happened. So she goes, okay, now I remember you. And then what? And then it was, it was just a very, it was a very slow burn. The first season, you know, I think we were both trying to be sworn off to that thing.

41:06We're going to go, I'm not going to do what everyone tells us never to do. I'm not going to do that. And then, but the beginning of the second season, it was, it was, it was, yeah. Okay. So now were the producer, did the producers take each of you aside individually and say, hey, this is, you're dealing with an asset here. Okay. Everyone has jobs. If you guys go south, we have to shut the show down. Were there conversations? No, no, they were very gracious about it because I've had friends. They were all so nervous. I know, I've had friends who've had that conversation to sit down from the producers going, look, we've all been down here before.

41:43You guys are in your mid-30s now. You know, you're not 22. Right off the company period. And they were very, yeah, they were very kind and gracious about it. Do you know the TV director, Tommy Shlami? Yeah. Yeah, so Shlami was directing the beginning of the second season and he has that, kind of beautiful voice, but Kerry and I were having a, we were doing a sex scene, and Shlomi just goes, these two have been naked together before. And then it was just like, called out. Oh, really? So at that point, no one knew, but he could tell. He could tell, and then there's a longer story as to how we got found out, which was just...

42:20We've got time. Well, Kerry got broken into. I was in the house at the time, and the robbers kind of grabbed my backpack, Hold on, hold on. Shoved it full of her stuff. You're in the house alone during a home invasion. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Well, start there. Well, so here's the other thing is, it's early day, and this is just a testament to my abject stupidity, but with the early days of our relationship, and she wakes me up, she says, there's someone in the house. And I go, no, there's not. And then I just heard this voice. Oh, shit. And I remember thinking, in any logical moment, you'd go, let's lock ourselves in the bathroom, call 911.

43:01And for some stupid reason, because it were very early days, I thought, what I do next, she will judge me on for the rest of our lives. What's that film? Force Majeure. Force Majeure. Where the avalanche comes and he just runs. He leaves his family behind. Right, right. I swear to God, I was like, if I suggest to go into the bathroom and call 911, one. Will she think me a coward? Your relationship's over. Yes. I had all these weird things going through my head. So what did I do? She had a working fireplace in the bedroom. So I picked up the poker. Sure. And with not a stitch on me, I walked out to meet my fate.

43:41Oh, God. Wow. And we'll be right back after these messages.

43:46Sean Hayes:Okay, so now we're back. So now we're back. So after eight months of treatment, yes. I was fine. No, I'm kidding. So did you face-to-face with this fella? No, because what I did was I think what most people do is you turn the light on and they run straight away. So I heard them kind of run and they ran out the front door. I know. So you do this and now Carrie thinks that you're her hero. I wouldn't go that far. Or did she think you were stupid for chasing after the guy? Yeah, basically, yeah. She was locked in the bathroom. Yeah, calling 911. Waiting for you. Yeah, then seven cops turn up, and they clock her, and they're like looking, they have no idea why, but they're looking at her, and then all of a sudden the DA were like, they catch them, and the DA said, oh, I tell you what, we would love to return your belongings on set with a photographer to Kerry, if that's okay.

44:43And she's like, she wasn't wild about the idea, tried to put her on, no, no, no, because the DA was retiring that year, wanted kind of a, you know, hero ending. So the NYPD come on set with a photographer, and then they're holding up my bag, and indeed, one of the young PAs went, wait, that's not Kerry's bag, that's Matthew's bag. And as I'm running, trying to go, shut the fuck up. And that's how the crew kind of found out. No. Wow. So arbitrary. Yeah. That's crazy. It was a lot to go through just for the big reveal. Wow. That's kind of cool. So then this guy managed to grab a few things before he went running.

45:20He did. He did. He did. Wow. And when I saw the picture of him when he was arrested, I said, oh, I said, look, there's a picture of the guy that caught him. I said, look, he's being cuffed by two little tiny cops. She said, they're not tiny. And I saw the size of him. He could have turned me into a kebab with that poker and done what he wanted. I wouldn't have had a... Now, did you have any sort of war cry as you turned on the light? Was there any sort of get the heck out of you?

45:49Sean Hayes:No, you're going, hey, bear, hey, bear. Yeah. You know? Was there any of that? No, no. As much as I was... I'm a poker! Yeah, yeah. As much as I love that moment in Gladiator when all the Celts kind of attack their Romans, and I always think, you know, if it came to it, that's how I'd react. I couldn't move my legs. Oh, my God. Don't make me come down there. Yeah, yes. I'm classically trained, you know. I've done fencing. Totally naked. Yes. Let's get this going. Yeah. And we will be right back. I'm Livvy Dunn, All-American gymnast and Viore athlete. When you travel and train as much as I do, you find happiness where you are.

46:32On the mat or on the sand, movement and comfort are essential. That's why I live in Performance Joggers by Viore. Made from DreamNet fabric that's made of 89 % recycled materials. effortlessly soft and made to move as much as I do. My happiness starts here in the softest joggers on the planet. Get 20 % off your first purchase at viori.com slash Libby. That's V-U-O-R-I dot com slash L-I-V-V-Y. Exclusions apply. Not only will you receive 20 % off your first purchase, but enjoy free shipping on U.S. orders over$75 and free returns. Go to viori.com slash Libby and discover the full versatility of Viore clothing.

47:11Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. After living with type 1 diabetes for more than 20 years, Naomi wanted a better option for low blood sugar, something that worked quickly but actually tasted good too. So she created Glow Gummies, delicious glucose gummies made with fast-acting dextrose to raise blood sugar quickly. They're vegan, gluten-free, dye-free, and don't melt or stick to your teeth. made by someone who gets it because she lives it too. Head to glowgummies.com, that's G-L-O-W gummies.com, and use code PODCAST20 for 20 % off. A rug shouldn't just fit your room.

47:47It should make your home feel finished. Ernesta creates designer-quality rugs custom-fit to the exact size of your space so every room feels beautifully pulled together. Explore Ernesta's range of options, all ready to be custom-cut, finished, and delivered to your door in as little as two weeks. Start with five samples for just$10 and get$50 toward your rug when you order. Visit Ernesta.com today. That's E-R-N-E-S-T-A dot com. And now back to the show. All right, so you and Kerry have a child. That's a boy or a girl? He's a boy. He's a boy. Kerry has two older ones, so there's three in the house who outnumber us.

48:26And what are the ages of all three? 15, 11, and 6. 15, 11, and 6. Then the 15 and 11 are boy, girl? A boy girl. So it was boy, girl, boy. Boy, girl, boy. And how are you liking being a dad? I love it. You love it? I do love it. It's the madness that I love. It's when it's, and it's most catastrophic. The small stuff irks you, but when it's catastrophic, it's brilliant. When those mornings, when the wheels so royally come off, that's when I can sit back and go, oh, this is just brilliant. Who's the more patient one with the chaos? Is it you or her? Her, her. Yeah. Chaos I'm fine with, But manners, rudeness, I don't tolerate.

49:06No, me neither. No, that's what I got. How old are yours now, Jason? I got 16 and 11, two girls. Oh, wow. And I'm totally permissive and the guy that plays around and I don't have to really be the disciplinarian. But if it's the rudeness, if it's stuff like that, and I just like the switch gets thrown. Yeah, same. I pick and choose my moments. Yeah, the chaos is great. Yeah, rudeness I have.

49:30Sean Hayes:Yeah, we've got 14, 12, and then my partner, she's a five-year-old, and then we have an almost three-year-old. Oh, wow. All boys, all boys. No way. Yeah. You've almost got the hockey team. Almost got the team, and it's the fuck, and it is, sometimes it is absolute, just abject chaos. Like, just... How do you like it? I love it. The chaos. It's great. Yeah, I love it. It's, I don't know. I just wouldn't have it any other way. I embrace it. It's fun. Same thing. They're all nice kids, and everybody, you know, has good manners and stuff. That's one of the things. But I love it, man. I love it when it just gets absolute, you know, sometimes when you get into the witching hour sort of near bedtime, it gets fucking bonkers.

50:18Sean Hayes:Yeah. How about the complications, Matthew, of travel and stuff, since you guys are both very active in your careers and your kids are now deeply entrenched in school and having that sort of social and academic continuity, like you can't really pick them up and take them places with you as much as you want, I'll bet, right? How do you guys manage that? Is it easy or tough? It is tough. I mean, we try and live by this ridiculous rule where one of us works, one of us doesn't, and the kids stay at school. Right. But it's just... That never works out, right? Because what if somebody gets a great, great call and you just can't say no, but this is your turn and, you know.

50:55Yeah, this is what happened last year. And grandma came in and, you know, the kids ate sugar for six solid months. They loved it.

51:05Sean Hayes:I think that my sort of view on it always is that, is that you have this idea of how you want it to go. So you say, like, one of us is going to work, one of us not, whatever that thing is. And you try to set those parameters and you try to get as close to it as you can. And you have to be flexible and allow yourself to, you know, that there are going to be moments when it's just pure chaos. Yes. And the truth is kids are so incredibly resilient. Like, they don't know any different, you know? Right. I grew up in a house where my mom was a stewardess for Pan Am or flight attendants. She was gone two weeks of every month.

51:36That was just normal to me, you know? Yeah. Just had my mom half the time. Yeah. And that was just normal. Yeah. I had my dad. No, Ryan. Oh, no. Matthew's going to love this story. Oh, Matthew. No, no. Yeah, go. So it starts with a Chevy Pontiac, the engine turning on.

51:54Sean Hayes:Yeah, and it ends with a peel-out. Yeah, just a peel-out. And a real... And a sort of a distant kind of, fuck you! Fuck you! Fuck all you! Mama! John, this isn't true, is it? Yeah, it's true. My dad left him at five. And he left his mom to keep an eye on all of them. And I stress an eye. His mother has one eye. And I'd stress an eye. Matthew, it's brilliantly tragic. Tragic. You have to laugh. It's fun. It's the only thing we have to do. We have to laugh at our misfortunes because... But wait, I'm going to ask you a weird question only because you're wearing a black T-shirt. Yeah. And I've seen a lot of photos of you and stuff where you seem very kind of fat, like you're into fashion when you have to be.

52:40Like, I know nothing. Like, I'm terrible. But, like, you're probably like Will, where you're like, I like to look good when I even go to the store. I like to look good when I go out in public. Like, is that, it seems like a lot of effort. Oh, no, no. If you truly knew me, it's, and Kelly said the other day, because I have these beaten up car hearts and I wear usually just the same black T-shirt every day. And even Kelly's like, you've got to change for the school run. You've worn the same thing for, it's now months. And my car hearts are really beaten up. And there was this - What's cards? Carhartts.

53:18Carhartts. Sorry, it's the way I was saying it. It's a brand, clothing brand. Carhartts. It's like all the carpenters, Carhartts, yeah. All the carpenters wear them and they're real worker guys. And I wear them into the ground because they look so terrible. I was standing in school pickup in line and this mother kind of looked at me like Travis and she said, what is it you do? And I went, oh, I'm actually an actor. And she went, oh, oh. and it's like almost like why are you wearing why are you masquerading as someone who works for a

53:50Sean Hayes:living well you have your uniform well it's like jason always gets the question when they see him they always say what what time's your tea time right isn't that the question i wear this little outfit it's it's clear you know you know what i do get a lot you know i do get a lot is uh do you do you color your hair and now recently because of this uh this film where i'm playing a guy in 1985 they think it's a wig just a full blown wig on hair? yeah I'm looking forward to that immensely no one thinks that my hair is the right is the real color because in your 70s like you are that's not true it's not believable that a 70 year old would not I have to admit that there have been I've had a few people in the last year who have asked me Jason if you color your hair I tell everyone that you color your hair it's you started that Yes, son of a bitch.

54:41It was, yeah, it was during that moment. Do you remember, I don't know if you remember this, in the Golden Globes, this sounds perversely pretentious, but it still makes me laugh. That kind of green, the virtual green room, if you remember, it was you, me, Bob Odenkirk, Josh O 'Connor, and then we were all waiting for Al Pacino to kind of pop up, do you remember, into the virtual green room? We were all waiting, and then he pops up, because we're all at home during the pandemic. And he looks like a Bond villain because he has like a small dog in his lap. And he's joking it. Yes. And we all sort of say, we all go, hi, hello.

55:18Hello. Hi, hi, hi. And then this silence. And then we kind of do a second round. We're like going, hello, hi. No, nothing. And then I think you said, I don't think he can hear us. And then Pacino just goes, oh, I can hear you.

55:31Sean Hayes:Oh boy. We all went, oh. Just doesn't want to do the group hi. And then he said, I think he colors his hair yeah oh this guy oh hair color oh Charlie hey so what's the problem Matthew yeah quick question for Jason why is the emblem why is the person holding an umbrella what is that oh this is some silly golf sweater Mary Poppins oh yeah what is that it actually is a Mary Poppins this is a I believe this is an ATT thing Willie from ATT yeah this is one of the from that swag room we went into free sweater we have smartless golf stuff coming out soon. I love it. Oh, let's take the opportunity to do a merch tie-in, shall we?

56:11That's smart. I'm just saying.

56:13Sean Hayes:Matthew, can you commit right now to wearing smartless golf merch on the school run? My entire closet is mainly made up of clothes I've stolen from jobs. I don't buy a thing. Well, we're going to send you some smartless golf swag. I love it. Some plus fours, right? For the golf pants. You know, you can wear that. Yeah. we were we were listening I do want to say your show gives us so much joy and we were listening yes it does we were listening to it recently and Will I think you went to dinner with Sean at JAR and you and Sean you were yeah I was not invited yeah well we we brought that up in the car we were like that wasn't Jason yeah I never am these guys have been all over the world together oh my gosh I've never asked I mean they've been to Turkey they've been to where else guys yeah we have Venice your passport's been stamped Venice Italy right Venice Italy You guys play golf every day.

57:06Okay, go ahead. That's different. So you did say that you were wearing Uggs, the kind of slipper Uggs for dinner. Is that right? Did I remember that right? Absolutely. And I said to Karen, I went, see? It's fine. And she went, they live in L.A. Right. She's right. Sean, that was you wearing the comfy shoes? Yeah, why not?

57:24Sean Hayes:He's been doing it for years. He's doing it for years. Who looks at your shoes? Nobody looks at your shoes in a dark restaurant. I would, and then I would choose to never come to dinner with you again. Cobblers around the world. Cobblers around the world. Listen, so Matthew, so now recently in the last couple of years, you've partnered with our good friend, Mr. Downey Jr. Yeah. Oh, yeah, Perry Mason. That's a handsome looking show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Talk to us a little bit about that. First of all, how that came about and what an absolute terror he is as an executive producer. Oh, this Downey.

57:57Sean Hayes:Oh, my God. He's checked. Yells and screams. Oh, what a screamer. He strikes people. Yes. Yes, yes, with a glove. Has a leather glove, a small gauntlet that he sometimes put a metal thimble in it just for the little... Yeah, yeah. Oh, Christ, he's here, he's here. He speaks so highly of you. How did that come... Yeah, he loves you. Yeah, he does, he really does. Robert loves you. And talk to us a little bit about... And Susan as well. Susan does not like you. Oh, she does. Well, yes. The great Susan, the brains of that duo. The wind beneath the wings and the brain in the head. Yeah. How did that come into your world, the Perry Mason project?

58:40I mean, I'm trying to think what year it was now, because it was a while back.

58:46Sean Hayes:Probably three, four years ago, maybe? Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I always, and this is how my brain works. When my manager calls and he goes, you know, Team Downey want to talk to you about a reboot of Perry Mason. My first question was like, who's turned it down? Who's turned it down? Why doesn't Robert want to do it? Yes, and I think he did. I think that was the whole point, that Robert was supposed to do it. And it took them almost 10 years of development. And it went through many, very many guises of a TV film, a series. And I just think Robert never quite got there. So yeah, they reached out for a meeting, which I was terrified about.

59:29And the brilliant Mr. Van Patten directed that, didn't he? Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was just a dream.

59:35Sean Hayes:By the way, I love that their company is called Team Downey, which is always fun to me. I think that's a great company name. I've always been jealous of that, but I don't want Robert to know. I would have called it Touchdowney. Yeah. Oh, that's good. That's nice. That'd be good, too, right? That's fun. Yeah, it's fun. It's just like I'm looking to rename mine Master Bateman, but it has not cleared. so Robert so Team Downey so Team Downey reaches out and you go and you meet with these guys and you're like you're like did you know that it was going to become this great like what was your first thought of it when you were you like excited were you sort of skeptical were you I mean I was I was slightly skeptical because I have like did you develop it with them or was it a script well you're also carrying a bunch of pedigree out of the Americans won the Emmy the Americans and brothers and sisters that you did for five years with our old buddy Robbie Bates, my old friend.

1:00:31You did not want it to suck. No, no. But that was never in doubt, because, you know, I think when you saw Team Downey, you know, the writers on it, Tim Van Patten, HBO, it was, it kind of, it was straight to, I wasn't concerned that it wouldn't be of a certain caliber. If anything, you know, usually it stems from my own insecurities, is how I can turn it into a catastrophe more than anything else. But I was very excited, I loved it. It was pitched as a one-off, and they were like, look, we just want to do the origin story and that'll be it. And then halfway through, they were like, you know, it works pretty good, it looks good.

1:01:08We should think about doing this, you know, we should think about doing more of this. I did have that small reservation where I've done, where I've kind of, you know, Perry Mason is so revered. Well, it was in the UK, it was huge. And here also, there is a certain generation of an age group up that kind of go, no, no, no, you can't touch Mason. You know, you have to leave that alone. And then a ton of people have no recollection of the show whatsoever. And that's what Susan said. She said, look, there's an entire, there are swathes of generations ready for a new Perry Mason. Yeah, we can do it.

1:01:40Sean Hayes:We can make him whatever we want. And where did you guys shoot that? In L.A. They went back to the origin story in the books, which was 1930s L.A., which to me was, you know, with Chinatown and everything else was so alluring. And as a kid growing up watching old movies, I was like, oh, my God, I get to wear a fedora in L.A. And you do an American accent? Yeah, yeah. You get to wear a fedora in L.A. like everybody else in Venice, right? In air or Los Feliz, yeah. As an actor, is the American accent a tough thing to do? And do you have like a phrase that clicks you right into the typical American sound that's sort of like a shortcut for you?

1:02:18No, there's no real show. It's still a huge, it's like a, I say block. Like hamburger. Well, I tell you what, killer. I went up to one of the writers early on in Perry Mason. I said, is there any chance we can change murderer to killer? And he's like, you do realize you've signed on for Perry Mason. Like, you're going to be saying murderer a lot. And I was like, yeah, I hadn't quite thought that one through. That's a bit of an Achilles heel for me. that's a tough word to say yeah like your batteries run out halfway through you just go murderer I was like do you say killer? what about suspect? suspect would be great right because the British accent would put an A-H on it murderer murder

1:03:04Sean Hayes:by the way if you're going to live in America you've got to learn how to say murderer I mean sorry that's not so true it's going to be the thing you're going to say the most Jesus Christ Well, I mean, so now you've got the second season of Perry Mason coming out, which is fantastic, which you never thought you'd do. No. And that was delayed a bit, yeah? Yes. With COVID, perhaps? Hugely delayed because Susan to a detriment went, no, we're going to wait. We're not going to shrink the show and make a smaller show of the first one. We'll wait until we can make the same big show with hundreds of supporting artists and do it right.

1:03:43Right, because there's a lot of background players in a lot of crowd scenes. It's a massive production. Oh my, it's a beast. There are those days I turn up on set and I go, I don't even know how this works. My brother-in-law was a tank commander in the British Army for most of his life. And he said, if you think about the logistics, they have to, it's insane. But he came on set one day and he went, how does this work? And he was just so shocked. He goes, what amazes me, He said, what amazes me is that so many components have to come together in one tiny moment and be quiet. He said it was, it sort of staggered him.

1:04:23He was like amazed at the call sheets and everything. It is.

1:04:27Sean Hayes:It's true. When you go to a big film television set and you watch all these people who are at the top of their game and they're seeing, like you said, come together in that moment where everybody's got to be silent and everything's got to be great and you see it pulled off. Sometimes it has the timing of something that has to happen in the shots. Whatever it is, it is pretty amazing to watch how good these people are at what they do. Yeah. And filming in New York, which we obviously did the Americans, it's staggering that they get away with what they do in the kind of, like location departments should be given flak jackets these days for the amount of abuse they just get from people who wanted to park, drive down the street or, you know, enter a shop.

1:05:10Sean Hayes:But how many times have you had that when you're shooting in New York on the street and then it's like pretty good and then like somewhere in the take you just hear somebody leaning out a window going, I want to be in the fucking movies. Yeah, all the time. All right, let's go again. If it says exterior night in the Americans, you know you're looping it. You know you're ADRing it because you know there's someone shouting along the line. There was this one time in Harlem, I was doing a scene and it was like eight guys, because I had to shout the scene, eight guys were shouting the exact same words along with me at the director's time.

1:05:39Because they've heard it so many times? Yeah. Yeah.

1:05:43Sean Hayes:Matthew, we have taken up so much of your time. My God, I just realized we could talk to you forever. We could talk to you forever. Yeah, yeah. I've been a real treat. You're a conversationalist. You're one of us. You're one of us. God, you are one of us. This has been a real treat. Sean, I can't wait to see the show. We're all coming to see it. We're very excited about it. Oh, that's so nice. Thank you. How are previews going? Really well, really exhausting. But thank you for asking. I walked down the street one day, today, walked down the street to go get my little sandwich, my egg sandwich on a Kaiser roll on a Kaiser roll and this woman this woman stopped me she was really sweet but this is how much energy was in her voice she grabbed my wrist she goes I saw your show last night I go yeah thank you for coming she goes it was really good and she just kept walking I love New York New York undefeated and that's it I was like she was very nice though last time I did a play I was I was I was walking from the theater and this woman just shouted you're an asshole and I just went I hope you saw the show that's not personal Matthew well when we come to New York I hope that we can grab a meal you, me, and Carrie and maybe one of these ding-dongs as well be great let's go yes please get Sean and Scotty and JB and we'll do it up it'll be great to see you man thank you for having me this has been such a treat thank you Matthew and send all of our love to Carrie I will we adore her as well and we adore you you are as Sean said you're one of us it's been such a pleasure buddy continued success Perry Mason comes out what's the release it's it's out now Monday nights at 9 yeah Monday nights at 9 there we go HBO Max yeah congratulations all the success buddy thank you guys thanks for being here buddy have a good day see you soon bye bye slam it shut now there's a nice guy what's a nice guy like that how is he friends with you Because that's the ilk of people that I attract.

1:07:41Sean Hayes:You know what I mean? It's just like-minded people. Birds of a feather. Cool dudes. He's charming. He knows how to carry on a conversation. Yeah, I know. I'm always impressed with guys like that who are just so relaxed. Yeah. Well, he's confident. He's comfortable. He's got his uniform. He's got his black t-shirt. He's not like you guys. He doesn't have an axe to grind. You know what I mean? He doesn't have something to prove all the time. He's not trying to prove anything with his fun tops that he wears, Sean. I'm a fun top. Now listen. Speaking of which, where's the cocaine bear? What's he fixing now?

1:08:12Huh? He's fixing something. Scotty, what are you making? What kind of sandwich? Oh, you had a Turk sandwich. Oh, a Turk sandwich. What else is on it?

1:08:21Sean Hayes:What percentage of the day when you yell out, hey, Scotty, what are you doing, is the answer, I'm making a sandwich. Well, usually it's for me. Making Sammies. That's what I mean. So what do we got on the turkey? So how do you like your turkey sandwich done, Sean? I ordered one. I had one yesterday for lunch. It was a turkey, avocado, lettuce, and extra, extra, extra mayo. Oh! And are we toasting the bread? No. Really? How about a light toast with a little snap on that? It's like a real soft thing there. Extra, extra, extra, extra mayo? Yes, I always do because they never put enough on it. You know what I like?

1:08:55Sean Hayes:I like it when you get one of those sort of like an Italian, you know what I mean, with different cuts of meat, some cold cuts, lettuce, tomato, I don't get some oil and vinegar, get a little salt peps. Stuff it in there, stuff it in there. You know, by the way, it reminds me, I was saying about wearing the hats all around. I remember Thoreau went through a long phase. He was always wearing, like, hats and little pork pie hats and fedoras and stuff. And I remember Poehler said to him one day, you look fedorable. And it just really killed us. Hey, what kind of hat do I have on today? You got one of those SmartList merch hats.

1:09:31Sean Hayes:That's right. Yeah. Wait, where did we get one of those? Sorry to interrupt, guys. It looks like Keri Russell's entering the waiting room. She might just want to say hi. You want to just apologize? Put her on. Put her on. Put Keri on. Then we're going to air it. There she is. There she is. If you can hear us, hello. We'll have to have her on. I will tell the boys they can't hear you right now because they're on the other system. You were fantastic. Thank you. Bye. Okay, thanks for everything. Really appreciate it. Well done. I love that we just had a quick visual visit from Keri Russell. Keri, yeah.

1:10:01Sean Hayes:We couldn't hear her, but we got to see her, and she was there, she was probably with the kids, right, Sean? Yeah, she was. Yeah, she probably would. It's about time for pickup. Yeah, it's probably for nap time for our kids, which she would then sing. What would she sing to them if she was going to put her kids to bed? She would probably sing, like, rock a - Bye, baby.

1:10:25Sean Hayes:Jason hates when we go up. He just pinches that voice off. Bye.

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