"Ricky Gervais"

10:49Sean Hayes:but Ricky did it look like Jason was reading that off a script no I know he can't read he was a child star he didn't need an education he didn't need anything to fall back on

11:02Will Arnett:nothing so and he's kept his looks because sometimes child stars they start looking weird well just yeah give it a couple more years they sort of turn into like a weird little monkey but he's he's still nearly handsome I'd better take my hair off and you see if you can still do something I watched the film with you in actually Carry On I loved it I thought you were great oh thank you You did sort of menacing really well because obviously I find you funny and there was, I could still, you could have made a joke at any point. Right. But it was really good. It was quite chilling. Any drama is always one line of dialogue at the end of every scene from becoming a comedy.

11:45I know. I know. Well, I sort of turned down a lot of, not big dramas, but things. I thought, well, they just laugh. I turned down, they wanted me to play Winston Churchill. And I was going, they're just laugh. They're not going to be lost. I'd give anything.

12:03Sean Hayes:I would have given anything. It would have been terrible. I'd have hated every minute of it as well because I'd have had to have every day the bald wig. Actually, if I leave it a couple of years, I won't need that. But it would have been three hours in makeup and puffing a cigar. Never.

12:20Will Arnett:But what was that? Was it Intolerable? No, what was it? Quentin Tarantino film where Mike Myers played a German soldier. In Glorious Bastards. In Glorious Bastards, yeah. Right? Right. And I started to smile when I saw him and then realized, oh, wait, I shouldn't be. But it's fine. You get right past it. And your acting talent, like you never tell jokes. Your acting talent is just incredible. And so you could seamlessly and effortlessly play somebody dramatic. Right, you've got to stop this now, because I don't know whether this is a wind-up or not. I'm just waiting for the big punchline. All the time you were saying that, I was looking at Will.

13:07I was thinking, what's Will going to say now?

13:09Sean Hayes:I just love the work you've done for Animals with your time and what you've done and really how you've inspired millions of people.

13:18Will Arnett:This is the worst case scenario ever. Oh, God. Oh, God.

13:23Sean Hayes:And just how thoughtful you are. And I think for me, that just really, I don't know. God, I can really, I'm choking up. You can hear me. Yeah, you're wetting up, I can tell. People say that my crying sounds like laughing. Yeah, I know, you're not a great actor, but I can tell what you're trying to do.

13:44Will Arnett:Sean, do you have any praise for Ricky? I do. I sent him an email after I saw Afterlife, and I thought it was great. I was late to the party watching it. No notes. No notes. No notes at all. No, no. I thought it was one of the best shows I've ever seen. I mean, is it locked? How is this the biggest entertainment podcast in the world? Zero idea. I've been pajamas. Yeah, we haven't covered anything yet. You know, I was thinking about that on the walkout to plug my computer in. And all I'm thinking about, I'm thinking I'm about to chat with my two best friends and Ricky Gervais. I'm not thinking about this going out to X number of people.

14:24Will Arnett:And I think that's a really great thing. I totally agree. I hope we never lose that. In fact, Will and I and Ted and Mitch did a few of these in lockdown. And it was just, it was lovely. Because that's when you really remembered you had friends when you couldn't see them. That's how this whole thing started. Yeah. Oh, is that when you started? Oh, cool. Yeah. I think I did this in lockdown, didn't I?

14:51Sean Hayes:You did, yeah. You were one of our first. At the end of 2020, you were one of our first. You were in our first batch. Gosh, that doesn't seem that long ago, but it was five years ago. It was five years ago. Well, I did that. I thought, listen, let's help these guys. Yeah, sure. And then five years later, right, they need my help again. Yeah. Let's give a little leg up, a little injection. Yeah. Yeah, of course. A little vitamin R injection. Listen, man, we're happy that you're on here helping us out and your backdrop with your dusty old awards from 20 years ago. You know what I mean? How dare you?

15:30Sean Hayes:Yeah. Most of them have rusted out. I used to see you a bit more. It's like going to a museum. It's amazing. You know, this is so educational.

15:41Will Arnett:Have you not been coming out here lately? I used to see you a lot more. You used to have dinners with Will. Well, the truth is, I've still got a place there in New York. And yeah, for the last 20 years, I used to come out like six, seven, eight times a year. Whenever I had something out, the second series, I'd come out, I'd do the chat show sort of thing. New York, fly to LA, do that. But I think, not just because of COVID, but since COVID, sort of things have changed really. Yeah, you can do everything from home. Well, yeah, and Netflix, they've got like 300 million subscribers. They send an email.

16:20I don't have to go on a chat show and play table tennis in a snorkel. You know what I mean?

16:28Sean Hayes:But you're also doing stand-up so much more now than you were 15 years ago. That's absolutely right, yeah. Right? So it's kind of changed the way that you interact with your fans a little bit. Well, I think I started off, yeah, writing and directing and being in stuff. And I'd fit in a little stand-up tour when I could between writing and, you know. And then I think Humanity was the first one. I hadn't done it for like seven years. And after Humanity, I thought, oh no, this is my job. I'm a stand-up now who I'll do the odd TV show and film when I have time. And I just flipped it. And I think in the last eight years, I've done four tours and four specials.

17:12And it felt like I'm fitting other stuff in. And I want that to continue. Well, to a certain degree. It does get harder.

17:20Will Arnett:You don't mind the travel? All that touring, there's a lot more travel with that than doing the acting stuff, right? Yeah, but honestly, I do the most luxurious tour possible. It's like I do two or three nights away at the most and four nights home. I hop private to all around Europe. I do three trips to North America and get it all done then with the biggest venues I can play. Now, did Jane go with you? No. Yes. She does. Yes, all the good places. She comes to America, Canada, all the lovely places in Europe. She doesn't come to some of the seaside towns of England out of season. But, yeah, no, again, I make it a little weekend break.

18:06So I'll play Prague Arena and we'll go the night before, we'll have dinner, we'll walk around all day and then I'll pop to the arena and do a gig and then we fly home. So it's like, you know, 46 hours of holiday and two hours of work. So it couldn't be better. but still the last few years if I do two or three gigs in a row I wake up I think was I run over last night? I'm absolutely exhausted it's age it's like also I think I don't know what it's like what it'd be like for people to see me at 70 I'm already sort of grumpy and I shuffle around sorry you're not yet 70? I remember the first time I met you right It was in the makeup trailer on The Invention of Lying.

19:00Invention of Lying. And I said something like, so you're 40, and you went, I think you were 37 or something, you went, you think I'm 40? You were like that. You couldn't believe that someone thought you were two years older than you. And then someone else came and said, he thinks I'm 40.

19:21Will Arnett:why do I sound like Mrs. Doubtfire you bastard it was like that and then I think you mentioned it again I'm 38

19:33Will Arnett:I get it there's no way you miss being on a set for 12 hours a day honestly I do because honestly I will do it again but the thought of doing it again like eight weeks up at the crack of dawn, eight weeks. So at the moment, I've just finished a tour, but I'm starting again straight away in January. I'm doing warm-ups for the next tour, which will be two years. I'm just finishing the first season of an animation I've been working on for two years. But I've been doing that with having a nap every day as well. So I do all my work. I work 10 till 12, have lunch, come home. I get 40 minutes, nap. and then I so you can't do that on set that's out of the question

20:24Sean Hayes:I'm a big napper and funnily enough because you know Winston Churchill famously took a nap every day even during the war he'd get full pajamas between the sheets so we call it Mark Chappell whom you all know Chappie we call it taking a Churchill so I as often as I can take a Churchill I took a Churchill this morning yeah it's great isn't it it's just it gives you I look forward to it because I wake up tired I wake up at 7 and think oh I'll have a nap in five hours do you know what I mean? it just gets me through that first five hours are you a good sleeper Ricky? like do you go to bed early wake up early do you get eight hours all that kind of stuff?

20:58yeah I do I probably do I think I've had a bad night if I don't get eight and a half hours I'd say oh good good for you yeah and you know you have to get up like I know that feeling like it's seven o 'clock in the morning like I should get up because that's what people do yeah but if I had the choice I would just stay here. But I have to, I should get up. Well, that's always been the case. In fact, I've got earlier as I've got older. Again, I think it was in COVID. I used to get up at half nine and think, oh, I've got to do it. And now I can't not get up at like 7, 7.30, but I feel like I want to.

21:32I could easily, if I didn't wake up, I'd just keep going. Yeah, it'd be lovely. But as soon as I look at the clock and go, right, that's it.

21:41Sean Hayes:I'm 6 a.m. every day. I can't help it. And I was just in London again for a couple of days. And I, it's dark right now until about 8.30 in the morning. So, you know, now I've got like two and a half hours of dark after I've woken up and I'm like, fuck, it really fucked me up. Yeah, the tears. Yeah, I bet. I seem to, I don't usually beat the sunrise. That's pretty rare. Ricky, I will say this about you talking about going to the cities and I know that about you. I love that you go and you really like, that you and Jane go for a meal and you walk around. and last summer, I think we might have texted about this.

22:19Sean Hayes:You were, you went to Toronto and did some, did a gig in Toronto. One of my favorite. It's my favorite place. And you talked about how it was your favorite and you love going to the island, Toronto Island. Oh, I love it. Every person I know in my family, because Canadians are so proud in the nicest way. They're like, my dad, my dad's like, hey, your buddy Ricky came in and he went and he loves Toronto Island, eh? Like they love it. Is that the name of a comedy spot

22:42Will Arnett:or is that literally an island?

22:43Sean Hayes:It's a park. It's like a park. It's a beautiful island in the harbour. It's like an island where residents live. And it's so lovely. And you just get the little boat over for like$10 or whatever it is. And I stay in Yorkville. I just love walking around Yorkville. And then I hop to Montreal. And I love Vancouver as well. I love Vancouver. I've only been to a few. I've been to, I think, Vancouver, Banff, Toronto, and Montreal. and that is my Canadian experience. And I'm from, my dad was from... From Kitchener, right? From Vermont. It was sort of near London, Ontario, sort of near Chatham. It was called something like, oh, Pond something.

23:25And he was a World War II vet, yeah? He was. He volunteered, right? So, yeah, he joined the Canadian army to volunteer and he got stationed to Europe and I think he spent most of his time in Britain. He drove, I didn't talk about it much to him, but he drove tanks. He delivered tanks to the front. Jesus. He was, yeah, yeah. And that's where he met your mom when he was over there? Yeah, he met my mom, got her pregnant. That's what happened. And just stayed. And just stayed. And I think my oldest brother was born 44. Larry, he died recently. Then my sister, 47. And my next brother, 1950. So I was 11 years after all that.

24:18I don't know what happened there.

24:18Will Arnett:And your mom admitted it was a mistake. Yeah. When I was about 13, I said to her, why am I so much younger than my brothers and sisters? And she just went, you were a mistake. And I laughed. And that taught me that honesty is funny. Honesty has always been the funniest thing for me. People who just say the first thing that comes out and they mean it. that always makes me laugh. That's why anger's funny because you can't help it. It's a visceral reaction. If someone does that I want to laugh. It could be anything. If someone bumps their head and they go I want to go that's the funniest thing I've seen today but I've got to make sure they haven't got a concussion they're not bleeding.

25:02But then I ask people their permission if someone falls over I go can I laugh now?

25:10Will Arnett:and we will be right back oh boy you know we talk about closets a lot on this show we sure do kicking the door down coming on out that we're basically talking about that closets are for clothes oh okay and i've taken that too much to heart because my closet is stuffed i've been meaning to go through my closet round up all the I should sell it I mean listen you know what feels familiar in my closet may be exactly what someone else is searching for buy, sell and discover affordable second hand fashion you'll love with the resale marketplace Depop reselling can feel overwhelming but on Depop getting started is easy just snap a pic of your item and Depop can take care of the rest including suggesting a price to help sell.

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27:56Will Arnett:now what i love is that you're always so beautifully unapologetic about leading your audience with like this is okay to laugh at but you know obviously we've gone through a section of years where people were a little bit uncomfortable about laughing at some of the things that were freaking hilarious do you get the sense that the audience that you're in front of now that that that whole thing is starting to soften and it is i is and it's and it's cyclic It's not the first time it's happened. I've experienced it three or four times in my career, let alone my lifetime. But, you know, these things, they come and go.

28:32They're like fashion, really. And it's like, it's generational and they kick out the past and they want to be, you know, quite rightly more progressive than the last one. And sometimes they get it right. Sometimes they get it wrong. Sometimes things were okay. Sometimes it's the best we've ever been. We don't need to change stuff. But they have to have a go, and I think we have to go through it. And I think that you sort of ride the waves. And, you know, I mean, comedy seems to be on the front line.

29:05Will Arnett:Yeah, yeah. Because people can go, people would rather someone say something awful and mean it than say something awful and be joking. Like, sometimes they're angry that you would joke about a terrible thing. Sometimes people are angrier at someone joking about the terrible thing than the terrible thing. Because they know they can't do anything about that. But they can't tell someone off for laughing at someone terrible. Is Jane still your most trusted sort of barometer of that, which is funny or not? Like, do you trust her laugh the best? Yeah, well, I do run things past her. Because I'm excited, I think.

29:42You know, we're just a vessel for ideas. I don't sit down and go, I've got to have a great idea. Because it doesn't happen. You live your life and then something comes in your head and you go, oh, thank you. And I usually have, I'm going jogging and I come up with an idea. Oh, that's a good joke. And I run home and I tell Jane, I go, look, I've got an idea. I tell her, she says, please don't say that in public. And I know that someone, I can work on that. That's got something.

30:11Will Arnett:Well, I mean, I know you're joking, but you're also being serious. is it because you trust your ability to match performance to content that it would make it somewhat palatable? And like, yes, I get it's offensive, but I know I can deliver it in a way where I... Yeah, there's lots of things. One, I like the challenge. There's no... I can point out funny things, but they're like found objects. Where's the added value? What have I done to it? So the harder dive, the thing that tantalises me more is, can I make a terrible thing funny? How do I do that? How do I make them, you know? And I deal with taboo subjects on purpose because I sort of want to take the audience to a place that hasn't been before.

30:58So you're already, as soon as I approach a subject, I can feel the, what's he going to say about that? It's the elephant in the room. Sometimes pointing out the elephant in the room is funny enough. It's like just even... And you're probably touching on a lot of things that people want to say themselves or thought themselves. I think that's exactly it. I think it's exactly it. And you know when you see an impressionist and they do an impression of a person and then you can do the impression of that person? Of the impression, yeah, totally. It's like I've reduced it for them to go, well, this is the meme.

31:30This is that terrible thing you don't know how to approach. But this is a good way to do it. And it's a discussion.

31:38Sean Hayes:Is the thing that excites you about it, Ricky, because I think that I see it a lot in your comedy and it's something that kind of excites me too. I'm not a stand-up, but that you, this idea, I can relate to the sort of the idea that getting into subject matter that is taboo or dangerous or that people don't want to talk about and figure out a way to sort of shed a light on it, make a joke about it, and do it in a way that you can kind of work around really hard parameters. That's exciting. That's where I feel like a school boy where I'm getting away with saying the thing that the teacher, that I'm not allowed to say.

32:13So how do I get to it that's okay and still get my point?

32:17Sean Hayes:You know what I mean? Well, that's the thing. Obviously, you want everyone to laugh, right? Yeah. You can't second guess. You can't try and make anything so anodyne that everyone likes it because that won't happen either. Most people are like, this is horrible, this is anodyne. So you've got to polarize by mistake. If you're doing anything that's slightly interesting, slightly contentious, as many people are going to hate it, is like it because everyone's different so you just do what you think is right and funny and i i um i do want to i i do want everyone to to like it but if they don't there's nothing i can do about it you know some people say uh like journalists they say things like um is there anything you won't joke about and i want to go is there anything you won't write about it depends on What you say, it's bad.

33:03And most offense, most offense I've noticed comes from people mistaking the subject of a joke with the actual target. They see a joke about a contentious joke and think, well, that can only be bad. And it's just not true because we discuss bad things all the time and we come down on the right side. So I'm just doing it and hoping there's a punchline as well. There's nothing wrong with that at all.

33:28Will Arnett:Talk a little bit about the difference. You do many things incredibly well. But one of the things I really marvel at is that your stand-up persona, and I don't mean to say that it's contrived, so persona is probably the wrong word. It is, though. It is to a certain degree. But there's a swagger that you have on stage when it's Ricky Gervais.

33:51Sean Hayes:That you couldn't possibly have in real life.

33:53Will Arnett:Knowing you. No, exactly. But it's part of the joy that I love that there's just, no fucks given or no apologies, not in an asshole way, but I just love going on that ride. Yet when you're playing some of your most iconic characters, Andy Millman or David Brent, there's a level of vulnerability and insecurity and brokenness to them that is so heartwarming and earning and lovely. How are you able to find the bullseye of humor in both of those polarizing kind of strategies you know ones with swagger ones as long as it's a yeah as long as it's a realistic portrayal it doesn't matter what it is and because you know people are complex so even my villains i i sort of give them a bit of redemption or a bit of backstory or why are they like that and i think you'll find that with everyone everyone who's who's sort of like a little bit nasty or arrogant it's because something bad happened to them probably or they've never had that and we all go around thinking oh we all live in our head because we walk around thinking oh everyone everyone is thinking i'm a loser i've got to act a bit i mean because look at them they're great but they're living in their head too they've got all the same insecurities and all as you so i think that the comedy at its best is saying we're all idiots let's just admit it and get on with it.

35:23So even when I do the swagger on, that is a bit of a persona because I've got to have that I've got to have that faux arrogance so me falling down is funnier. If I just come out and clown and go, oh, I'm slipping over boring. If I come out and go right, I'm the best thing since sliced bread and then slip over, that's so much funnier. That's so much funnier in life and in character. And the other thing is I've got to keep comedians' stand-ups and certainly British stand-ups, we're jesters, we're court jesters. We're down in the mud with the other peasants laughing at the king, right? We're low status, right?

36:03Now, how do I keep low status? Because everyone knows how much we earn now. So I've got to keep, I can't fake it. I can't pretend. I can't go, oh, I was on the bus the other day going to claim a welfare check. You liar, right? So I can't do it like that. So I keep my low status in two ways. One, I show them that it's not all glam, all the silly things I've done, all the mistakes I've made, all the faux pas I've made in Hollywood, all the ways the press have called me an idiot and caught me out. The other way I do it is I talk about things where they're better off than me. I talk about being fat and old and going to die and going bald and my balls distending.

36:43You know what I mean? So that's how I keep... In a way, I don't think that I keep low status. I try and keep same status. That's what I want to do. I want it to be us against the world.

36:58Will Arnett:And are you able to tap into some of this sort of explanation and theology when you're trying to court folks on the extras to sort of, you know, when they come out and they parody themselves a bit? Like, are you able to sort of make them feel comfortable? Like, we're all idiots. I'm an idiot. Come on and have fun of yourself. I found that the stars that I approached, that was like a day after them. They wanted to do it. They wanted to go, let me show the world I've got a sense of humour about myself. Because there's so many rumours about these people. They want 12 white kittens in their trailer.

37:37They want the trailer to be big. Someone else has to flush the toilet. They want to go, let me show them I'm normal. Let me show them I'm an idiot. And some of them made it worse. some of them went, oh no, do this, do this, do this. I did this once. It's cathartic. It's like a day off for them, you know? And I think that's fun. And I've played it myself a couple of times when I've been the other side of it, like Kirby Enthusiasm, you know, where I was thinking, oh, I've got to parody myself here. And it is fun. You do it anyway. If you write yourself a part, you've got to parry a little bit. But it's nothing new.

38:21It was nothing new. The Muppets used to do it. When I was a kid, I used to watch The Muppet Show. And they would have on Big Stars. And they would be the idiot. The Muppets won. The Muppets won over this. It's like being interviewed by Jiminy Glick when Marty Short is Jiminy Glick. Oh, my God. I was interviewed by him. And I just... You can't compete. The worst thing you could do is try to one-up him. It's like, no, just show up. I was just laughing. I wanted to hug him. I wanted to go, right, I want to say I wish this was real. I wish he was like this all the time. But I felt that I did a Muppet film, right, and Constantine was the evil Russian frog.

39:00And I just wanted, I wished he was real. I wished I could take Constantine. I did all my press stuff with Constantine because it was so good having, yeah, I like being I like being you know the lower status you know it's good to play the arrogant idiot who wins but it's much it's much more fun to I like it when I'm insulted in fiction I love I love me being the butt of the joke well so

39:28Will Arnett:how about could that possibly be a new angle on whatever sort of filmed entertainment like scripted entertainment and you might be doing this? Because, you know, fans like us, like we love the stand-up stuff, but we want it all. We want, like, is it going to be another show? Is it going to be another movie? Is there anything close to the... Yeah, there is something that's close to parading myself that I'm going to get around to one day. I can't even tell you. Anything you can talk about? I've got the title, I've got the idea, but I can't even discuss it now because... Would it be maybe shooting in the next 12 months?

40:04Yeah. Oh, you lot would be roped straight in as my only friends. We're available. We're in it. Yeah, you're in it. But I've just finished a thing called Nearly. It's like two years and it still isn't quite finished and it won't be out till the end of next year. Doesn't animation take a long time? Yeah, that's incredible. But it's a six-part thing. It's called Alley Cats and we're a group of sort of feral cats living in a disused basement. and we watch TV and go out and cause havoc. And a lot of it is improv as well. There's storylines, but they're the sort of, you know, the meanest, wariest cats in the world.

40:47But, you know, they're losers as well. They're the bottom of the pile. It's all about sort of like survival. And it is all about that thing that when you're the bottom of the pile and, you know, you can be angry. You can lash out because there's a reason for it.

41:02Will Arnett:You get away with a lot because there's nothing perfect about you. Yeah, I think that's funny, isn't it? Because that's one of the big differences between drama and comedy. You know, the lead in a comedy is a putz, whereas the lead in a drama is perfect. He can't slip. He can't hit his head. That's a good point. He can get shot, but then he's got to go, it's just a flesh wound. Right. I can't do the voice. Will, do the butch voice, will you? Do the butch voice. Do that butch voice you learn when you've got your...

41:35Sean Hayes:When my balls dropped. Hey, listen. Hey, Rick. Rick, listen.

41:44Sean Hayes:When this summer... Did you do... When you were doing The Office, which is a great... It's kind of Jason's earlier point. It is a great acting triumph, that series for you, playing David Brent. and I'm sure you got asked him a fucking million times and I'm sorry

42:01Will Arnett:they all are he never sucks no I know

42:03Sean Hayes:and did you how much of that was and then when you're first making that of course it's kind of like you know they made the internet without the internet you know what I mean you made the office without knowing with no reaction you made it in a vacuum that first season there was no reaction so you're doing it did you have any idea that you were what you were doing was special. Or working. Or working. I knew it was different. I knew it was different. You did know it was different. Did you think it was going to spawn? And were you guys improvising? Were you improvising a lot? No, I was the only one that really improvised at all.

42:42And I did that at the beginning and the end of the scenes or just to make the actors think a little bit and make it real or do something different to make them laugh or whatever or just something new. To put them on their back foot. But it was, I'd say it was 99 % scripted. and what we found and I've always found this actually

42:59Sean Hayes:but the behavior was improvised though do you know what I mean? well sort of you know I did want to be an actor's medium I remember saying to like sometimes the DOP might go it'd be good if you came in and sit there I'd go no I said come in and sit where you would and I said we're filming it's like wildlife but you know we had to stage it a bit because they had to be of course because we didn't cheat so you know some documentaries

43:25Will Arnett:But you wanted cameras to react, right? Yeah, well, it's one camera. So if someone went through a door, we wouldn't cut to a camera there waiting for them. We'd follow them through the door. So it was all possible. So we probably cheated less than real documentaries in a way, which was a bit of naivety, but I think it came across. But we had to find people who got it, just that they had to say these things. And I do remember that, you know, we were meticulous. No, do it like this. No, because it's gone. you know we saw the whole picture so we would make them there were sort of multiple takes from to get it you know how how we wanted it did you find that the cast bought into it early on or did it take some convincing because they didn't have the reaction from the audience either you know no no i i think what it was finding them it was the once we'd done this sort because um it's the first thing i did and i sort of cast it with someone in my mind like i had these characters like Gareth was based on a kid I went to school with, right?

44:27When I was like 14, 15. And he was in the Territorial Army and he spoke like that, right? And he said, this is a true quote of this guy, I won't say his name. He said, when you're captured by cannibals, right? And you're in the pot and they're cooking you, they show you pornographic pictures so you get an erection and there's more meat. And, right? And so, and he'd say, and once, right? I did this in some of my stand-up. As a joke, I was talking to him once, and I told him, when we were a little bit older, I told him that... I said, if you get a crab drunk, it walks forwards. And he came back off holiday, right?

45:11He'd been on holiday with his parents. And he said, you're talking shit, Gervais. I did it to a crab in my beer, and it just walked sideways still, right? So this was the sort of... So Gareth was based on him. and he was quite a sporty.

45:23Will Arnett:How did you find that incredible actor that could hit that tone without any winking at all? He was just, what was that? But what made it even better was this guy was quite a sporty guy. He played cricket, football, he was big and I was looking for this guy. I was looking for a guy who came in and talked about killing a man and all this and then when Mackenzie Crook walked through and he's about seven stone and looks like a baby bird, it was even funnier because suddenly him talking about I could kill a man, yeah, if I was in the jungle, you'd be like, no, you couldn't, you definitely couldn't survive.

45:57You'd be eaten by a lizard immediately. So there's surprises with, but we cast and cast and cast. And I remember it was like, you know, 2000. And in England at that time, you either got these people who talked like that, it was like, you know, they were like They were sort of like, you know, this and that. Or they wore bonnets and spoke like the royal family. There was no one who acted in between. And comedy was sort of quite heightened. Everyone still talked funnily like that. And so you had to tone it down. And once we found the people that could do that, they could do anything. They could just do it.

46:39They could just act naturally and do, you know.

46:41Will Arnett:Did you have success? I mean, I love the American office as well, but as far as I'm concerned, can't touch what you guys did in England. Were you able to have at least the amount of success comedically tone-wise with the other international iterations of the show? Because you've done it 16 times, did I read, around the world? Yeah, well, I usually, on all the others, I okayed it. I'd see a rough thing. I'd see they'd cast a fat 50-year-old as Brent. And I thought, they're doing it right. And I often watch the first pilot. Some of them I haven't seen a minute of them. I've seen clips. But, you know, and they have to make it...

47:29There was a funny one. There was a French one. And you know when Tim puts Gareth's stapler in jelly?

47:38Will Arnett:Yeah. in France they put it in a big cheese it's that easy how'd we trance like this we like cheese I thought you were going to say

47:49Sean Hayes:they went on strike in the pilot and then they just came back episode 4 right we're doing satire now we're having fun

48:01Will Arnett:we'll be right back sun's out and so is dad this Father's Day find what'll make his summer with Lowe's Father's Day deals. Get two free DeWalt power tools when you buy a select 5-amp hour battery kit, plus get a free Blackstone six-piece stainless steel griddle kit when you buy a select Blackstone griddle. Shop Lowe's Father's Day deals in-store or online. Valid through June 24th while supplies last. Selection varies by location. Hey guys, you know how winter makes your car so filthy with like salt and the snow and the sleet and all the ice scrapers and shovels you keep in the trunk. You can bring in mud and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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49:56Will Arnett:And back to the show. What a great success, though. that that, I mean, I'm sure you felt like you were in such a vacuum there in England and you're doing, what, only six episodes a year. But then it takes off. Yeah, well, we got that. I was a big fan of Fawlty Towers. That was the first time that I saw, like, this is my, this is so perfect. And they honed the script. You know, often British sitcoms were written by, you know, people banging out on a typewriter over the weekend and they'd, you know, they'd do loads. And this was like, you know, 12 episodes. So perfectly, like possibly the most perfect farce ever committed to TV, Forty Towers.

50:44I thought that's what we do. We do it. This is boutique. This is, you know.

50:50Will Arnett:But that was a sitcom, right? Shot proscenium style, right? Multiple cameras, audience, studio audience. Like, you did the opposite of that in that it was single camera, very quiet. There was a lot of humor in the discomfort of silence and awkward beats. Well, I stole that from Spinal Tap. Anything you say that I invented, I'll tell you where I stole it. Okay? Well, we all do. All of us. Yeah. All of us. Yeah, my God.

51:15Sean Hayes:We were inspired. Jason and I were inspired when we were just shooting Arrested Development in the first season. And we were... We watched your show religiously. We watched your show and we were just, we were crazy about it. We were like, holy shit, look what these guys are doing. Like, we were fucking blown away. Oh. Yeah. That's true. I give you all credit on that one. I mean, because, as you know, a huge fan of all of yours.

51:37Will Arnett:Well, then, like, I think we told the story last time you were on. Then it was like, you got word to us that you might be interested in actually coming over and doing an episode of our show. And, Will, wasn't there, like, some sort of, like, ridiculous argument high up at the studio level with them, like, wondering, yeah, should we really buy him a first class ticket to come over? I think like the phrase was, he's not going to put new people in the tent. Like it's not worth the fucking plane ticket to bring him. Remember like - Well, they're right. They were right. Wasn't there that like ridiculous argument?

52:10Sean Hayes:No, because Ricky, no, because he wanted like 12 kittens in his trailer. Oh, right. Yeah. Because when Ricky made that point earlier, he was just reading off his own rider, you know? Yeah. No, I mean... No, it was Arrested Development, or Arrested, as Will calls it. He always gets me out. Didn't you just get... I think it was... I think you were voted for like five years, when it was an hour long it was on, you were always voted best comedy of all time, weren't you?

52:45Will Arnett:The best unwatched show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then we got a little bit of awards attention and we got to stay on a little bit longer. And speaking of awards, we're going to ask you for some advice.

53:00Sean Hayes:Ricky's going to be blown away by this.

53:02Will Arnett:We've got a nice bit of love from your friend. No, I know. You've been nominated for a Golden Globe. Yeah, so I think we're going to get up there on stage, maybe present at a minimum. I think you've got a great chance. I think you've got a great chance because this is really fun. You've got all the big guests. You're like, you're huge. It's friendly. You're very, you're not Hollywood in that. You're very Hollywood, the three of you. I mean, you're, you know, three people at the top of their game. I think you've got a very good chance. I'm trying to think. We don't, I just don't want our patter to like, I hope they don't write us some weird patter.

53:42Just say no, whenever, even when Arrested Development wouldn't give me a first class ticket. I was still arrogant. And when I was handing out awards, I said, I'm not doing it with anyone. I'm not going out with someone I've never met, doing a bit of shtick. I said, I want to come out as me, and I'm just going to do the thing. And they let me do it. Yeah, the best thing, too, is the default is just to read the prompter without any bits, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think I complained every time I got there. I said to someone, I've come a long way for this, and I didn't win. I was usually up for an award.

54:12I tell you what, you know, I've been nominated 25 Emmys, and I've won two. Now that is just taking the mickey, isn't it? That is like, get him over here again. Get him over here again. Let him think he's going to win again. Get him over. And at least I thought, oh, you're right. I used to hand out an award at least. I used to get up there somehow.

54:31Will Arnett:Your host, but your hosting of the Globes, what did you do, five or six years? It was just priceless. Do you watch it? Ricky, do you watch it at all anymore? The Globes? The Globes. I don't think I've ever watched an awards ceremony I wasn't at. Well, for a start, the Globes and the Oscars and all those in America, I'm in bed. They're 3 a.m. here. So that's the question. I sometimes check out the monologue if it's a comedian, you know. So I thought, yeah, oh, yeah, whatever. But no, I mean, I don't know. It's all changed. You can't take it seriously. You mustn't take those things seriously. No, you can't.

55:17You've got to treat it like a night out meeting your friends or a job. Right. You know, it's like, it's an industry award.

55:27Will Arnett:I like meeting all those people, all those fancy folks. It's nice to see people. The only reason it's on telly is because it's an industry award for really famous people. the teaching awards don't get televised do they you know right they don't do it for science awards really important awards don't get televised i love to put a bunch of booze on the table too they try to get everybody hammered so when they go up there they do something well that's that's that's the great thing about the golden globes that's the good and bad thing about the golden globes the golden globes is better to be at and the emmys is probably better to host because at least they're all in their seats and they're listening and you can do your i've never hosted the Emmys because it's too much work and you have to rehearse.

56:06Will Arnett:There's no rehearsal hosting the Globes? No rehearsal, no. I talk about this in my special 30th of December.

56:17Sean Hayes:How now? I came and saw it. I saw you in a cover. Oh, you saw it just before I think I filmed it. Before you filmed it. I saw Ricky at the Playadium in London. Chappy and I went over and watched it. It was great. It was brilliant, man. Oh, thank you. It was brilliant. It was brilliant, brilliant. And yeah, you talk about, it was fun. And the audience was so psyched. And you were really funny talking about like hosting the Globes and what that was like. Yeah, I talked about some behind the scenes, just like what it was like for me and what happened. And there's a couple of really funny stories.

56:48But I can't tell you. Don't do it. No, no, because they need to watch the thing.

56:53Will Arnett:Was the show that Will went to, is that the one that you filmed? How do you decide which one to film? It was the venue and maybe the week, but not the night. Right. Because I did about, I did like, I think I did 14 shows and I taped two of them. How is that traditionally decided? Is it usually you want to film one of the later shows because you're still working on the material? You want it to be ready. You want it to be ready and you want it to be as soon as possible while it's still fresh and you're still sort of into it and loving it. So it was within the last five or six shows, actually. You want it to be a venue that you can do a night before warm-up in the same venue.

57:38And you want it to be as intimate as you can without it looking. And you have to wear the same outfit. I was going to say. I wear the same outfit. Well, that's fine. I do that anyway. I could do it tonight. I haven't changed my hairstyle in 22 years. So it's not a problem, that. And you do two, just in case. and usually you sort of, you make sure you nail it on the first one and make sure you've got everything and then the second one, you just have fun. And in the cold light of day, the first one is always the best.

58:07Sean Hayes:Yeah, of course. Because it's more self-indulgent than the second one. You're going, oh, I'm going to love your time. They're laughing. I'm riffing, I'm riffing. Then you get into the studio and go, well, people at home aren't there. So they just want to hear what you had to say clearly and it's always that first one that wins every time. but I even do things on the night that I haven't done before little things I try out because you can always edit it out so I film too much and crunch it down I probably do 70 minutes and it comes out at 65 just so things didn't hit so much or or two jokes about the same thing I let go of that that sound too much or cruel or whatever or something that wasn't ready I'll go I won't put that in I'll work that up that'll be in the next special.

58:54Will Arnett:And as far as your material goes, have you found that the sourcing of the ideas that you get has changed over the years? Has the ratio kind of stayed the same as far as pulling from family and friends funny ideas and news ideas? No, it's still Hitler, AIDS, in that order. Classics. Shitting yourself. Classics. Evergreen. Evergreen.

59:20Sean Hayes:The stuff that got us here. You know what I mean? Yeah! Yeah. Well, also that translates as well. So if I work up my show in England, I've done 50 shows in England, and it's all about what was on telly last night, or our prime minister, you have to go about universal subjects. And joking aside, my use of universal subjects are usually things like what it's like, you know, ego, bad days, getting old, or, you know. So I try to be more timeless than topical. Right, so this one called Mortality,

59:58Will Arnett:is that the theme of the whole thing? Is sort of mortality? Again, it's a jump off. It is about me getting old and grumpy and getting annoyed at stuff more and more. Again, it's quite classic. Everyone goes through the phases of their life. Sure. You know, I think it is about, it's not zeitgeisty, but it is clearly about now. But I hope it lasts.

1:00:26Sean Hayes:But I will say, Ricky, that's one of the things, again, about sort of The Office and your stand-up, which is, and you just said I was about to jump in and say, that it's not zeitgeisty, and that's what gives it all those best comedies aren't, because they do have that evergreen thing. They do, it is about these characters who are flawed, the relationships between people, certainly the dynamics of the office between the different things. I mean, that is just as relevant today as it was 25 years ago. Well, I think so. I think if you go classic, sometimes I even go retro, but like this project I'm working on now, Alley Cats, it's like 2D retro.

1:01:02I want it to be Hanna-Barbera mixed with sort of 60s Disney. So if you look at it in 20 years, you don't go, oh, what were I thinking of then? It just looks... Classic. It's already sort of classic. It's already stood the test of time, the way it looks. So I am quite conscious of it sort of being universal and timeless. Because you notice as well, if you suddenly, it's going well, but you get to Paris and you go, well, I can't do that bit, I can't do that bit, they won't know who he is, I can't do it. It's really sort of demoralizing.

1:01:39Sean Hayes:And they know they surrendered. you know what I mean so you don't need to tell you know what I mean you don't need to do that joke you don't have to you don't have to remind them you know what I mean when did you did you enter the war the war after my dad volunteered in 19 trying to think boy it's funny I did change my number so I don't remember getting a thank you so maybe that came maybe that got well

1:02:10Will Arnett:Ricky With all of your influence, your access, and credibility, capital, all that stuff, if you could point all of that towards something that is not comedy, not stand-up, not movies or television, stuff like that, like a documentary or something like that, what would the audience be surprised if you had to shine a light on something? Would it be like animal rights, like a documentary on animal rights? Well, that's the first one, I suppose. I think that... And where'd that come from? Did you have pets when you were a little kid? Yeah, it was always quite important. Pets were like a member of the family.

1:02:51Growing up, it was sort of like just a working class family in England. It was all about the kids and pets. I remember when I was about 15, and my brother, as you know, 26, 27 at the time, he came over with a couple of his kids, right? And the kids came running into the house to my mum and they went, nanny, nanny, daddy just punched a man in the face and knocked him over in the park, right? And my mum was like horrified, right? And then Bob comes walking in and she went, they said you punched a man in the face. And Bob went, yeah, he kicked the dog. And my mum went, oh, fair enough. And that was it.

1:03:33And that was like, that was the life lesson. It's like some things are all right. Sometimes violence is justified. It was always about, you know, I've always thought animals were unconditionally sort of perfect and beautiful and should be treated well. It's all about empathy, isn't it, really? And I know you guys are the same. I've never understood animal cruelty. And then the older you get, the more you find out, well, there's so much animal cruelty that you didn't know was going on. and you're sort of like, you're cashing in on it without knowing. And so that's why I became vegan as well, because the terrible cruelty in this sort of farm industry.

1:04:15And I thought, oh, I can't really be saving dogs and eating sheep. And so, yeah, you just, you know.

1:04:25Will Arnett:If you had to make a choice between bringing one person back to life, it could be any person, historical figure, family member, whatever it is, or give voice to one animal that is alive right now, like your pet could talk, or you could bring back a person. What would you pick? That's really good. Well, it would be, oh, my God, they're both pretty irresistible, aren't they? Yeah. It's too risky, isn't it, bringing someone back, because you might bring back, oh, I'd love to, you might bring back Einstein, and he keeps going, yeah, I know, he equals MC squared, I know, I've got it, I've got it shut up fuck me why is that yeah now he's got to catch up it's got to be my cat talking hasn't it it's got to be my cat talking you've just got the one pet yeah one cat what if my cat was really boring oh god or had an attitude yeah it's a real pain I'm sleeping I know you're sleeping but we can talk now what if your cat

1:05:25Sean Hayes:what if your cat just said I've been this whole time I've been all over you because I'm a sadist I just want you to fucking kick me oh god I just that's what gets me off I just want to get kicked and you spent all this time telling people not to kick and that's the only thing that gets me off is getting kicked obviously we're going to cut this bit right we're definitely going to cut this bit keeping this bit leading with it yeah that's the opener it's the only thing that gets me off I'm not going to sleep now I'm not going to sleep now oh god

1:05:56Will Arnett:alright so now you got a chatty cat yeah and alright I think that's a good decision. What's the cat's name? She's called Pickle. Are you sure? Yeah. I've had lots of cats. Yeah. So if you had to give voice to one, it's going to be Pickle. It's got to be Pickle. Your current cat is your favorite and you probably forget how much you love the other ones and then you go, oh my God. they become a member of the family. What's a life?

1:06:32Sean Hayes:Sean, hang on one second. Sean, what's your dog's name? Ricky. Excellent. Look at that. I've always known that my name should either be a child or a dog. Dog, yeah. It doesn't really suit a man in his 60s, does it, Ricky? Never Richard? Ever. When he's back. No, it was Ricky Dean Gervais. It was apparently, it was a thing, what shows lower class from a name most in America, and the top name to show you were from a lower class was Ricky. Really?

1:07:05Will Arnett:Really? Yeah, apparently. That's funny. Yeah. Somebody is having a gag on you.

1:07:12Sean Hayes:Sean, what do you think Ricky, your dog, would say if he could talk today? How do I get out of here? How about stop curling my hair? Yeah. Well, I crimp it. I just crimp it. I don't curl it. I crimp it. Ricky is such a beautiful dog.

1:07:28Will Arnett:And Ricky, you're a beautiful guest. When's the special? When's the special? What's the date on? The special's out. It's out now. It's out now. It's already out of the charts. It's already made number one. This is absolutely fucking pointless, this.

1:07:40Sean Hayes:Okay, you ready? I'm going to do this. So Ricky, your special came out December 30th. It's already number one across the world. I don't know how we booked you. what incredible success and congrats on all the nominations yeah really great let's do one just in case say Ricky just after your special came out you had your testicles removed from cancer just in case let's do every scenario yeah just run them down ball I see I'm alright with testicular cancer now when you're about 50 you forget about it's an arsehole it goes don't worry about your testicles mate but we've got to check your ass now I'm out of the woods my testicles are safe they're absolutely safe well there's a fear of them getting trodden on these days

1:08:29Will Arnett:safely tucked in your socks

1:08:34Will Arnett:we love you and thank you and please say hello next time you're out here oh yeah oh yeah I did last time oh I wasn't there where was I oh you weren't this no when was that That was the last time I played the bowl when we all came to Ted's house. Yeah. It was two years ago.

1:08:52Sean Hayes:It was a while ago. Yeah. It was a while ago. I will. I'll say... I'm back. You were in England recently, weren't you? You didn't say hi.

1:08:59Will Arnett:I'm not... It's Will that has sleepovers at your house, not me. Wow. I'd love to. I need friends. I don't have any friends. I got these two. Help me out. I know. You're all busy. You're all too busy. We're all too busy. I'm too old. I'm too old and grumpy. and antisocial and you're too busy. That's fair enough. No, we'd be perfect. I'm just like a cat. I don't talk. I'm sitting in the corner.

1:09:22Sean Hayes:You know what it's called? It's called making an effort. You make an effort. I go there and I make an effort. I reach out to Ricky and I say, what are you doing? He says, I'm busy. I'm going to come see your show. It's called making an effort. Okay. Ricky, thank you so much. Teach me, Willie. Teach me.

1:09:37Will Arnett:All right, Pelly. All right. Have a great rest of the day. Bye-bye. Thank you. That was absolute a pleasure for me. I hope it was a pleasure for you. and it was. I understand I'm the first, first, second guest. The first. You are the first second guest. I'm sorry, first guest to do two. First repeat. The first repeat. Yeah, that's the word I was looking for. I'm getting tired. The money's the same though, so don't look for an increase in your check. I won't.

1:10:01Sean Hayes:Wait, is it, it's yes, after half past nine, isn't it? It's, no, sorry, half past six. Yeah, half past six. I've only got two hours before I think about bedtime.

1:10:10Will Arnett:Dinner time. Say hi to Jane at the dinner table for us, please. I'm going up to eat now. Thank you. Yeah, love to Jane. Great to see you. Cheers, guys. Bye, pal. Thanks, Ricky. Bye, buddy. Bye.

1:10:22Will Arnett:The great Ricky Gervais. Our first return. And that's the bar. That's the bar right there. You don't get to come back unless you're Ricky Gervais good. You know, I don't remember him going into so much detail about the office. It's really cool to hear that. I know. I know. You know, like, because you don't want to. When's the last time you guys saw that? Seriously, on the plane a couple weeks ago, I hadn't seen it since we watched it, Willie.

1:10:46Sean Hayes:It's been a minute. But you know what? In that time, I will say, and really, I know Ricky was part of it, and credit to Greg Daniels and Mike Schur and all those brilliant people that we love over The Office and all the performers. The American Office was very funny. And I ended up watching the bulk of it during COVID because there were gaps in it. And fucking hell. I mean, first of all, Steve Carell was, you know, because Ricky cast such a huge shadow. Right. You know, what he did on - I remember thinking like,

1:11:18Will Arnett:who is this guy Steve Carell thinking that he can do what Ricky Gervais, and he made it his own. He just did it different. He made it his own and he drilled it.

1:11:26Sean Hayes:Oh, so good. And it's tough. Those are big shoes to fill.

1:11:29Will Arnett:All of those characters were so specific. And everyone in the American office came, made it their own, kicked the door down, and I think inarguably became a bigger success than the British one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Who knows? Like you said, it's so hard to write a part and a tone and a voice of a character and then have an actor match that. Like, what are the odds of that?

1:11:52Sean Hayes:Yeah. I loved, yeah. I also love Martin Friedman. I'm such a fan of Martin Friedman's and he was so good. And I love that show that he did, The Responder. I think I mentioned it before. It's a BBC show set in Liverpool. He plays a cop that came out two years ago.

1:12:07Will Arnett:He's unbelievable. Well, you just fire up BritBox and you just start knocking down shows? Kind of. Yeah. No, I know. Are you doing a plug for the BritBox? I mean, I'll do it. Do I have BritBox? No, you have. Yeah. Do I just, I guess it's a certain channel. I got to find it.

1:12:25Sean Hayes:It's a fun callback. That's a fun callback to do I have Tubi, you know? Tubi.

1:12:31Will Arnett:Sean, do you have one yet? Well, I was thinking of Tubi. Tubi. No, no. It's too much of a reach. Okay, what about... Sort of bi-coastal... Well, their shows are so... Those are shows... You know, all those shows, like The Office. This is going to be sloppy. I can feel it sloppy. They're so good and they're so rare that they're really hard to come... Bye. Bye. Bye. Smart. Less.

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