"Seth Meyers"

7:40Sean Hayes:And so I'm in a place now where I'm really trying my best to just deal with what's in front of me and to try to take the next best.

7:49Will Arnett:But you don't want to be fully reactive to everything in your life. You do like to be proactive in some areas, right? And kind of have the car moving in a particular direction.

7:58Sean Hayes:Well, for me, that has been in the last couple of years, as both of you know, trying my best to lay a great foundation. I surround myself with great people. I'm in great programs with people. I've done some work on myself to try to do it in a way so that whatever does come my way, I handle it hopefully better than I have historically. Prosecution rest. Hey, you know what? Let's get to our guest, huh? Okay. Dr. Ruth Westheimer is on the show today

8:25Will Arnett:to walk Will through.

8:28Sean Hayes:Let's see. He might have a Dr. Ruth. He might have an opinion on Dr. Ruth. I don't know. He's got opinions on lots of stuff, and I like his opinions on most of the stuff. He lands on the right side of virtually every issue I think I've ever had a conversation with him about. Right meaning correct? Correct, funny, insightful, and well, he's well-educated, he's super smart, he's got 35 Emmy nominations to back it up. He's hosted the Golden Globes, he's hosted the Emmys, he's produced shows, he was a cast member of SNL for 13 years, He was the co-host of Weekend Update for eight years with my ex-wife and our old friend, Amy Poehler.

9:09Sean Hayes:Is it Seth Meyers? You guys. It's Seth Meyers. Seth Meyers. It's Seth Meyers. Hello, gentlemen. Oh, hello. This is our old, the right-wing pundits. Seth is just digging in. He's been taking notes. Thank you for clarifying the right side of every issue. I was like, okay, well, that means this was thrilling. Just the pre-show banter. And, you know, again, anybody who listens to the show hears the pre-show banter. But I bet that, again, I'm now new to the podcast game compared to you guys. It's dead easy. It's thrilling to find out the tech doesn't get sorted out. No, no. It's just, I mean, if you guys could hear the three of them try to get ready for a podcast, they've done over 300.

9:49I was Googling how many episodes you were doing over the course of.

9:52Will Arnett:Should I shut down or reset? Should I reboot or shut down? Jason, at one point you said, can I hear me? You asked the other two guys, can I hear me? That's our new t-shirt and our swag. I can't wait to tell the Lonely Island guys. It does not get easier. It does not get smoother. We're all ding-dongs.

10:13Sean Hayes:If anything, it gets harder. My favorite thing about when Jason, when he has to reboot and when it's not working and he can't hear the headphones, is his face because he's in, so he's not aware of his face. So he's looking and he's like my dad with the remote. And somebody has changed the input.

10:30Will Arnett:Forget it. And somehow we feel like if we get closer to the object that's troubling us, it'll become fixed. Just get your face closer to it. We're all at the age now. We're all at the age now where at certain angles we look like 70-year-old aunts. You know what I mean? And it's usually when we're trying to figure out, again, it's like in the cheater zone. I'm there too. We're just certain angles. It's like full aunt mode. Somehow I always seem to have my jaw somewhat separated, and people say they take these pictures of me. Will is guilty of this, my wife a lot, taking pictures of me and Jimmy Kimmel and Molly.

11:10Will Arnett:My mouth's just slightly open, and I'm staring off into space, or I'm laughing with my mouth sort of agape. So, yeah, it's sort of a sign of old age coming in, I think. I also do think I've crossed the threshold with my wife where if I see her taken out her phone to take a picture of me, it means that something's gone terribly wrong. Something's not right on my face. No, you just reach the point where it's not like, I need pictures of my husband looking handsome or good. It's something they can send to their friends and laugh at. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

11:40Sean Hayes:They're so mean. Seth, dude, this has been so long overdue. I feel like we talked about this last fall. I'm so happy to be here. We talked about it last. I ran into you during trick-or-treating last fall in New York. Yep. In the middle of mayhem in the West Village.

11:56Will Arnett:Wait, how does that go? That's just purely, that's just elevator riding, correct? It was really exciting. We had two great run-ins in the course of like three months. Oh, yes. One was just West Village, packed West Village. Okay. Perfect place to take your kids trick-or-treating in New York City. But otherwise, it's in apartment buildings usually though, right? I mean, you're going up and down the elevators. No, this is now people sitting on brownstone steps. Yeah. and they close down the streets and it is a real great community vibe. It is. You know, my kids, we saw Will. We saw Alec Baldwin in half a Teletubby costume.

12:37Sure. With like four of his six kids and just kind of like trying to get, yeah.

12:43Will Arnett:And were you guys dressed up? Matthew Broderick. I love Matthew. What's that? We were, I was not dressed up. Will, I don't think. We were, yeah. No, we were. We still wanted to be recognized for our work. We weren't trying to draw attention to IP that we didn't own.

12:58Sean Hayes:I was wearing a T-shirt, I think, that said, ask me if I'm Will Arnett. Is that right? Yeah. Wait, and then we were in London having dinner with Laura Dern and Mark Chappell, and Rashida walked by. Rashida Jones. Rashida Jones. And she was like, hey, guys. And we were in the front, and she goes, I'm here with Seth. And I went back and you were sitting by yourself. And I said, we're over here. And you guys came and joined us and we had a very fun, impromptu night at a restaurant in London. Guys. It was great. You're selling yourself short because you first came over and I was, you know, Rashida had gone to the restroom.

13:39So I was just looking at my phone like everybody would do and you came over to take my order. And so I had a moment where, that's funny. It was jarring. And then lovely.

13:50Sean Hayes:Well, because you hadn't seen me since Halloween. You're like, in that time, he's now working at the Dover in London. Yeah. And like I said, you never know what life's going to throw at you. Yeah. Because I said on Halloween, I'm like, what are you up to now? And you're like, I've got some irons in the fire. I did say that. I did say that.

14:11Will Arnett:Did you guys ever go through a table waiting period of your lives? Oh, yeah. Yeah? Yeah, for sure. I was at the Twisted Lizard in Chicago, which closed in the last five years. But I was, yeah, that was in my early improv days. And I remember the most memorable moment was, it was a downstairs, you took stairs down. And I remember once getting no tip and chasing a guy out and asking why he didn't leave me a tip. And he said, because you're a bad waiter. No way. He said that. Which is basically, historically, what that means. Not yet, I needed to, I needed to make him tell me twice. I don't bet in your defense, you probably said, fair enough.

14:47Will Arnett:And you have it. I was, yeah. I did not fight it after that. I was like, oh, I thought it was an oversight. It's tough.

14:54Sean Hayes:I mean, it's tough to argue. I mean, theoretically, you could have said, well, in what way? You know what I mean? But at that point, there's no point. I think also, as soon as he said that, I looked back and saw about six or seven things I could have done differently. Right.

15:08Will Arnett:Now, let me ask you guys this. I'm not sure if this is the most relatable part of this interview. But in Europe, fellas, you're not supposed to leave a tip. Is that correct? I always get tripped up on this. It's changed. It's kind of changed. What is it now? You do. You do leave a tip, but is it like... You do, but you don't have to. If you're American, you do.

15:31Sean Hayes:Yeah. The hope is you think about how much of your work has gone international. Yes. And whether or not they'll be able to, word of mouth, we'll be able to get out that you're a bad tip. That's the calculation. I used to be a runner. Remember the restaurant Red in LA? No. Remember that? No. No. It was on the corner. It was on Beverly. I was a runner there. Wait, was it in parentheses? No, it was bright red on the outside. It was called red. And they had great turkey meatloaf. But anyway, so I would run. I would be a runner, not even a waiter. And I had the one joke ready. Every single table, they would say, you know, I'd have three plates.

16:08I'm like, great. And inevitably, I'd put it down in front of somebody and they'd go, well, that looks fantastic. And I'd point to my shirt and I'd say, thanks, I just got it. What a joke. So wait, a runner is the person that brings the plates,

16:20Will Arnett:doesn't take the order. Just runs the food. Runs the food. Got it. Yeah, I wasn't... Red in parentheses. Isn't red in parentheses Bono's like... Oh, right. Yes. Oh, okay. There you go. See how old I'm getting? It's also a nice burn on Sean. You're like, were you the one that was the humanitarian one? Okay. Yeah, no, not at all. Yeah, but I got yelled at all the time. Like, do you know where you're going? Do you know which table you're going? I'm like, no, just look at the table. and then you had to memorize the seats where everybody was sitting, not only the 70 tables. It was hard.

16:49Sean Hayes:I'm just curious. How long did you work there, Sean? About a year. Okay. And it was just the one joke? Just the one joke, yeah. Like you never decided to punch it up or just...

17:00Will Arnett:No, he kept refining it.

17:02Sean Hayes:Yeah, yeah. It was good, though. And they never gave you the promotion up a level. No, I asked, too, to be a waiter, but I couldn't. Oh, look at you now. I had more stress dreams about being a waiter than I did. Yeah, there's too much. Remember Squirrel? Remember the program called Squirrel on the computer, which they would punch in, the waiters would punch in? Oh, right, right. Anybody? No? Okay. Okay, great. And you'd slide your card in to open up. Was that Squirrel in parentheses? No, no. All right, Seth, speaking of starting out, let's talk about how you started out. We got to go. We got to go down.

17:38Sean Hayes:All right, cue the music. Yeah, cue the music. You're from New Hampshire, but we all know you're a Steelers fan, and we don't need to get into that. We know, right? That's fine. If you want to explain yourself.

17:47Will Arnett:I'd love to stop just for one second. I will just tell you this real quick. Yesterday, my 10-year-old son was on the phone with my 78-year-old father talking about the Steelers' first preseason game, and I genuinely wanted to just go sit in a corner and sob. It made me so happy. Like, just that, because it's just empty nonsense, no calorie conversation. but the connection is real. And it was just like my son saying things like, I think Jeremy Bernard is probably our third best receiver. And I'm like, great. That's all I ever want. But now Aaron Rodgers is the quarterback again, correct? Yes, Aaron Rodgers is the star.

18:26Sean Hayes:And he's also the chief scientist, I think, isn't he? He is. He's taken over science for most of Pittsburgh, I think. Yep.

18:32Will Arnett:And does he get to eat earlier because he's a senior or does he eat with the rest of the team? Oh, that's a good question. I believe he does. There's still certain places. Wait, how old is Aaron Rodgers? 43 years old. And he's just, that's very old for football. Yeah. Young for podcasts. That's true. You bet your ass.

18:54Sean Hayes:You know what? I will say, though, I connect with my dad. I'm a long-suffering Toronto Maple Leafs fan. And my dad and I often, you know, he's about to be 88. And we talk about the Leafs. That's our sort of point. We talk about lots of other stuff too, but that is the thing that we can talk about on a daily basis. Yes. You know, we can just sort of have a, hey, they looked terrible last night. What's going on? All that kind of stuff. And it keeps us connected in that way. As you say, it's light on calories, but it's very filling. So, Seth, hi. So, wait. So, Seth, you come out, you're fighting out of New Hampshire and you decide what is the thing?

19:36Sean Hayes:How do you, you went to Northwestern. Is that where you started writing and or performing comedy, or were you doing it before in New Hampshire? I was softly doing it in college. I'm sorry, in high school, I remember we did a comedy night in high school where we sort of wrote sketches. We were doing, you know, B-minus impressions of teachers and stuff, but it was really fun. But I went to college to be a film major, thought I wanted to write and direct movies, and Northwestern has this very famous... So many people I know go there. Yeah, and then it's Meow is this very, I think the first improv troupe at any college, and it's been around forever, and that was immediately what I wanted to do.

20:11I saw them my first week. Did you do any Second City while you were in Chicago? After college, that was my goal. I only did Meow for one year, but that was all I wanted to do, was to do Second City. And I had seen a lot of Second City. My parents went to Northwestern. They'd seen a lot of Second City. I remember when we went and looked at Northwestern, my dad brought me to Second City, and we saw young Carell, young Colbert on stage together. Wow, yeah. And so that's all I wanted to do. So that was post-college. That was waiting tables at the Twisted Lizard. And there was that weird thing of you just kind of improvised.

20:45I was doing stuff at ImprovOlympic now called I.O., but waiting for that sort of biannual audition where everybody would go in and audition for Second City. But that's all I was looking at was that.

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24:12And now back to the show.

24:15Sean Hayes:So you saw those guys like Carell and those guys when you went, as you said, with your dad. And then once you got to ImprovOlympic post-college, who were the people? Because there's so many different classes, right, of people who were kind of in and around. So many names we all know, right? You included who came through that Chicago thing. Who were the people who were sort of your contemporaries at the time? Well, it's so nuts because it was genuinely, I was present during a scene. Like, not being part of it, but it was like, oh, this is what, like, a scene is like, where everybody, you knew you were in the right place because there had been this wave of people were just leaving, you know, like, Brian Stack and Brian McCann, like, to go do Conan stuff, Dorf.

25:01So they were the slightly older. And then there was, you know, in John Glazer, and then there was, you know, Tina and Amy and Horatio and Dratch. So that was all the people that you would either go see at Second City or sometimes they would just pop in to ImprovOlympic. You guys know that game, The Dream, where you bring somebody up and you ask about their day and then you improvise a dream about it. I remember just once being in the audience. The first time I talked to Amy, she brought me on stage and she asked me about my day.

25:29Sean Hayes:No way. And then that, like her cohort did, basically improvised a sketch about what my dream would be based on the day I had. So it was really amazing to feel very confident, not in how it was going to turn out, but very confident. This is the right place to be at this moment if you want to be in comedy.

25:47Will Arnett:But did that, did the confidence you feel about, well, I kind of would like to do this more than your film goals. Did you go all in on that as far as what your career and path to making a living would be? Or were you studying something else simultaneously to, you know, mitigate your risk. You know, I got, I immediately, my takeaway on film class was, oh my God, this is so scientific. And I don't think I have the, you know, where I just don't think I have the attention span for this and, and the amount of lighting and, you know, the 180 degree rule and lenses. I was like, well, this is a snooze.

26:30And so I, I started, there was a, there was a creative writing for the media sort of sub-major and I was doing that. But, you know, half, I would say most of those people as soon as they graduated went out to LA. They wrote spec scripts and they went to LA where, you know, Sean, you know, there's a, you know, a ton of Northwestern people out there. And certainly, you know, when I graduated in the, in the, you know, mid nineties, like there was just this, you know, Northwestern mafia out there. And so there were plenty of connections, but I, by the time I graduated, I wanted to improvise and do comedy more than I wanted to make or write films.

27:06Will Arnett:But you had no backup career aside from, I mean, you were confident that the entertainment industry was going to be something you were going to be able to make a living in. No backup. Correct. I got a weird, I got a weird job, like a weird early tech job right out of college where I worked for two months for a friend of mine who had started a, it was, the idea was it was a, you would get free minutes for your phone long distance, but you would have to listen to a commercial before you placed an ad. I'm sorry, before you placed a call. It's not a bad idea. Like it's basically like what? Wait a second.

27:35Keep selling me.

27:36Sean Hayes:Keep selling me. So you're interested. But I worked for two months there. I was like the seventh hire. And I remember he came in one day. He's like, so nobody thinks you want to be here. And I was like, you know what? I don't. And he's like, yeah, that's kind of what we thought. But they, I will say I had really, my friend group at Northwestern, which were not all comedy or theater people, they were all really supportive. Everybody was like, yeah, I mean, don't, you should just try that. That's all you seem to be interested in. But you know, it brings up, I was having this conversation with somebody the other day, which was like, I think, you know, every once in a while somebody will call you and say like, hey, my son is graduating college or they're trying to get into entertainment.

28:18Sean Hayes:Can they call you? We've all had those calls. All the time, yeah. Right? And so you end up talking to people and I always think like there's no, what kind of advice can you give somebody? There's really no plan for it. It's not like law school where you say, finish law school here and then try to go and work for it. So there's not, but I remember, remember the other day I was saying to somebody like, you kind of can't have a backup plan. You have to be all in. It has to be, that's the risk is, is the thing. And it's because when you don't have anything to fall back on, it forces you to try to do whatever you can to, to get a job.

28:56Sean Hayes:And you're not going to hit necessarily, it's very rare that somebody hits it out of the park on their first job. And you're going to take a lot of shit jobs and you're going to do, I don't know, work background, or you're going to do whatever it is that you're going to do, but you have to be all in.

29:09Will Arnett:I think. It is nice, though, that pursuing the entertainment industry at its early stage does lend itself to the schedule whereby you can hold down a job that can pay your rent and feed you. You know, all out waiting tables or whatever it is. That's your helper. Right. But it is like that, I think when people talk about a plan B, you realize, you know, like, you can have a plan D, you know, right? Which is like waiting tables. But like, When you talk about a plan B, what are you talking about? Because ultimately, anybody whose plan A is your plan B is going to be so far ahead of you by the time you decide that's what you want to do.

29:44I mean, man, it is so nice to hear you say that, Will, because the amount I feel like I am wasting everyone's time when they sit you down or get you on the phone with somebody who wants to talk about this business, and the only thing you could say is you have to only want to do it. Yes. That's the only way. If you're on the fence about like this in med school, I'd go to med school. Yes. You know what I mean? Like just.

30:08Sean Hayes:I'm like, yeah, don't look at me. I pasted this thing together with scotch tape and rubber bands together. Yeah. I don't know how, you know.

30:18Will Arnett:Now what was, Seth, what was Josh doing at this? Was he kind of like on a similar track? Yeah, so the exact same track. Also Northwestern, also Meow. And then I had gotten. And he's two years, three years younger? Two years behind me in school, yeah. Yeah, two years exactly. And we, so then I got hired for this job in Amsterdam called Boom Chicago. So these Chicago guys, Northwestern guys, started basically a second city type theater in Amsterdam. And that was a thing I would never have done on my own. Sean's co-star, Peter Gross. Peter Gross, one of the funniest people alive. On Broadway in Goodnight Oscar.

30:57Yes. He was my friend and he was, we had done improv together. We were improvising in Chicago together. And he was the one who said, hey, there's this theater in Amsterdam and they're having auditions. And I just to this day, I'm so lucky to have had a friend who was willing to take a big swing like that because I never would have even gone to that audition. But the fact that I had a friend who was down for that kind of adventure and we both auditioned for that and then we both ended up moving to Amsterdam. I was there for two years.

31:26Sean Hayes:Am I right? Did Sudeikis go to Boom Chicago after you? Is that right? So Sudeikis, it was a crazy, I mean, that was another time where I felt that thing of like being.

31:37Will Arnett:I feel like we had another guest on this show that went to Amsterdam. Yeah. I mean, it could have been Sudeikis, Jordan Peele, Ike Barinholtz. Oh, I think it was Ike. Oh, yeah. Kate Cannon. That's right. It was Ike. It was Ike. But it was another time where you're like, oh, we're part of a scene. Like you just, where you look around and you're like, this is the place to be right now. And the hardest part about leaving to go do it was there was this idea that you were in line in Chicago. Whether you were or you weren't, you thought like, oh my God, I'm just going to spend six months getting closer to the kind of person that they'll hire for Second City and then I'll be a part of that organization.

32:13And so the risk we all had to do was leave and go do this show in Amsterdam. But once you got there, you were performing way more than you would in Chicago. And you were living in fucking Amsterdam. And it was incredible. It was just the best time.

32:29Sean Hayes:Because it's about time on stage. You need to have the hours. And we're getting to... Yeah, and so... We're getting to the... Lauren, by the way, Lauren, the reason I was in London was, you know, they started us in OUK. And I had dinner with Lauren, and Lauren wanted me to go over there just to, like... It was before the show started, just to, like, sort of sit and talk to him. He goes, you know what, I think you're the right one because, you know, Amsterdam. And I'm like, from 25 years ago? I'm like, but also... Lauren, they don't even use the same money as when I live. But by the way, what's kind of sweet about it is that he has these associations.

33:05Sean Hayes:He remembers that you came out of Amsterdam. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And he, by the way, I think the thing, Lauren is so, he gives way too much credit to living abroad and athletes. Like the amount people would audition for the show, give like the flattest audition and Lauren would be like, you know, he played college baseball. so you know he'll get it. Like, why?

33:29Will Arnett:But then, so Seth, so if everything went perfectly and one got recruited to Second City, is the next logical, you know, home run step after Second City Saturday Night Live? Is that the trajectory? Yeah, I mean, so that was the observable pipeline from the people that were, you know, so in, I mean, it was Jerry Miner. Yeah. Before that was Tim Meadows, but I didn't really know him. But like Jerry Miner, Horatio Dratch, Tina. And then you just sort of thought like this, Adam McKay, you know, had gone there. And so that is, I think, why everybody wanted to be at Second City. And so then I spent two years in Amsterdam.

34:08I came back. Once again, my expectation was I'll get back in line. You know, maybe it's the end of the line, but this is still what I want. And then I had this crazy stroke of good fortune, which is this woman, Ayala Cohen, who worked in the SNL talent department, came to this tiny little improv festival where my partner and i were doing a two-person show and uh basically i i got to audition for snl based off that and that's all and did you have any were you in any sports that lauren recognized i did you play sports or no no no okay all right i want desperately wanted

34:44Will Arnett:to and uh it was not it was not to be talk to me about um how you became more interested uh motivated, fulfilled, I'm assuming, with the writing track as opposed to the performing track? When did that start to take hold? Well, I mean, I would love to tell you that it was my instinct, but I think ultimately, and again, it worked out career-wise, so no regrets. Sure did. Lauren made a mistake and should have hired me as a writer. He hired me as a cast member, and I was then, And I mean, again, I was just, it was a huge struggle for me to find a purchase. And it only got worse. I mean, it was fine to be like, all right, you know, I'm not obviously, you know, Will Ferrell, Tracy Morgan, Chris Kattan.

35:34You know, the people who are in the cast are older than me. Like nobody expected me to be better than them. But then, you know, the next wave of people that came in, you know, then it's like Sudeikis, Hater, Fred and Will, Bill and Andy. And you're like, oh, no. Like, they're like the younger cast members, but they're, you know, demonstrably better at sketch comedy than I am. And so I was sort of writing. I always loved writing, but at the time I was writing to stay alive more than anything else. Writing for yourself. Writing for myself, but Shoemaker, Mike Shoemaker, the producer on the show, he gave great advice where he's like, look, what you should do is you should try to think of group scenes where you can score, but it's not like a Seth sketch.

36:16you know it's a it's five people and and it will get on the show and you will you know have a a fifth of the laughs but that'll be better than you you know i was because early on i would i would write things that were good enough to get to dress but then i didn't have the uh i don't know the charisma or or skill to carry it so i was getting so many things cut at dress uh on the you know again they it was a it was a accomplishment to make it to dress but then it just felt like a failure.

36:44Sean Hayes:First of all, it's great that you had Shu, and obviously I want to get into you guys have managed to have an incredible sort of partnership, if you will, going forward, and that he gave you that advice at that time, and I want to get into that, but first I want to know, what's your favorite sketch that got cut at Dress that never made it to air that you to this day, you're like, this would have killed. Do you have one? I don't know. I mean, I remember, because we did this thing, we started doing this thing at our show called Second Chance Theater, where we would do sketches that had gotten cut at SNL and then we would mount them on late night.

37:15But they were usually like crazy forte sketches, steak sketches, Will Ferrell. We did the Gabe Kaplan Will Ferrell sketch, which I'm sure you at some point, Will, had seen that dress of. And I remember one time Shebrick was like, we should do one of yours. And I was, the only thing I liked about it was it was the beginning of a holiday ad, which it was like, what do you get for a man who has everything? A second penis. And then it was just, and it was always, I took it like basically submitted it all three December shows for like my first five years on the show and never once went, because it just ultimately, and I remember Shoemaker's like, we should do it.

37:50And then I got a copy of it and Shoemaker read it. He's like, I actually don't think we should even do it.

37:54Will Arnett:Wait, wait, wait. What was the thing that always made it a non-candidate? Was it too graphic? It immediately became, no, it wasn't too graphic. It was too much a sketch about a sketch where it was about how it was just the actual apparatus that was clumsy. It was about how it was like, It was a clumsy strap device.

38:15Sean Hayes:Which is amazing. And they were, I remember Parnell was the host of it, and there were three testimonials. And at the end, he goes, so it seems like, he goes, so one for, one against, and one in the middle. They couldn't even get three strong testimonials. Can we just sideline and say how great Chris Parnell is? He's so great. He is world class. That dude, fuck me, man. Well, there was, again, when I, I was so lucky to be a writer at a time on that show where just the toolbox was nuts. You know, and I think like, certainly people who wrote for Phil Hartman have that same thing, but Chris Parnell was just a metronomic delivery system for information that he would do in a way that it felt like as though there was no, it was so dry that it became hilarious.

39:09but there was no effort or certainly no observable effort that he was like reaching for the laugh. He would just kind of get it.

39:16Sean Hayes:He says, ah, I always remember, every time I think of Parnell now, I think of that scene. There's a scene in 30 Rock where he plays that doctor, Spichemin, and we're doing this scene and he goes, and they go, he's got to give somebody a shot. And he goes, okay, he takes the knee out and he goes, okay, ew, ew, ew, ew, ew, ew. Revolted at the idea of giving somebody a shot and nobody else could do it the way he did it. It was just amazing. So that's, man. So then you, so Shoemaker's like, all right, you got to start writing. You got to start doing this stuff. And then you start writing more and then update happens.

39:51Sean Hayes:There's a kind of a, there's an empty chair. Tina leaves. Yes. And to do 30 Rock. And the big thing is who's going to take over the seat. Yes. Well, it was the second time it had happened, right? Because first, Jimmy had left. Oh, yes. And, you know, in my head, I always, if there was anybody at SNL whose path I thought I could maybe try to follow, it was Tina's, right? I always saw, I was like, oh, that's somebody who is a really good writer and also a good performer. But you know what I mean? Like, she built her way to perform her on the, like, strength of her writing. And so, whereas, you know, again, when, you know, when you're next to Will Ferrell or, you know, Amy, and there's just like this charisma coming out of their pores that like is not available to you.

40:42You're like, all right, we're going to ride our way into this. With that said, when, you know, Lauren decided to go with Amy and Tina, it wasn't like I thought he had made a bad choice. You know, my best chance was that Amy didn't want to do it. I wasn't like, what are they thinking? And so, but then, yeah, when it was, you know, when it was Amy in an open chair and my recollection of it was, it was the end of that year. And so I had done one year where Lorne had promoted me to writing supervisor. So he had taken me as a cast member and I think at this point he was admitting his mistake. He's like, I'd love you to, you know, basically, because Tina was gone a lot that year.

41:23Sean Hayes:Amsterdam notwithstanding, I think them. You know, I think, you know, in Amsterdam, they like clowns. you know what though you were so great on Update I remember I remember when Wig and Armisen played those two characters where they're singers and they make albums but of course they're improvising yeah Garth and Cat and they're singing making it up in the moment clearly and you you got as big of laughs as they did asking the dumbest obvious questions and it's it's hard to do that and you you just so excelled at that I thought it was hilarious thank you it is to this day they always would they would ask to sing another song and they would say, please, Mr.

42:03Miners. They kept calling me Mr. Miners. My wife will still say, will refer to me as Mr. Miners when she wants me to do something.

42:11Sean Hayes:Knowing how well you guys all knew each other and knowing how legitimately you were authentically delighted by so many of those players, watching other people come up, you and Amy doing Update was phenomenal in and of itself. but watching how delighted you would be when like Fred would come out or Wig and watching you be legit, like you know what people say, like always are they faking laughing? Like no, no, no, no. Seth can't control himself because Fred is killing him right now. Right? Yeah. And they're killing each other. And just, well Fred and Wig and Bobby Moynihan, they also just never, by the way, never tanked dress.

42:57They just always saved like three moves for air, which is, I would never have the confidence to not give, like press so hard at Dragon Ball. Whereas they're like, I got it. Like I'm not gonna do it all now. It was interesting though, because when Amy left, you know, and I was doing it alone, my initial instinct, which is a bad one, because all update guests are doing a bad job executing what you, the anchor, tell the audience they're going to do. For example, like, Stefan, the city correspondent, was a terrible city correspondent. And so my first instinct as an actor was to be frustrated and mad.

43:39Right. And again, not to continue to give him the credit he deserves, but Shoemaker was like, I think the audience doesn't like that you don't like them. Right. You know, he was basically like, I think you should try to play this as sort of patient and delighted. And it was such a good note because, of course, that, you know, to sort of confirm what you're saying, Will, like, I was delighted. So, like, why hide it from the audience? Like, it just seemed like, you know, this... Because, again, I think maybe just from, like, I don't know what it was, like, what comedy you watched growing up, but, like, there's that straight man thing of, like, now you hold on here.

44:16You were supposed to be talking about the city, you know? And that's just, like, not joyful to do or watch. Right, right, right.

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46:52Sean Hayes:and back to the show. When Amy left, and because she chose our son over you, when she... When Archie was born... And he's a fine young man. He's a fine young man. And you know what? He's a fine young man, and I'm finally willing to concede the right choices. It's almost 18 years. But, and he's, by the way, he's still asleep. He's in the other, he's in his room right now. He's still asleep. Yeah, yeah. But when you were now on the desk by yourself, what was that like that first time? Do you remember that first show being out there? Well, I mean, because the first time was crazy because it wasn't Archie born on a late Friday night.

47:38Sean Hayes:Well, of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah. No, you did that night by yourself. I think Saturday morning I woke up from a text from Amy being like so... She was in labor Saturday morning. You're on your own. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was like, you're on your own. And I... But it was crazy and it was also not the most confident I've ever felt Lauren was. Oh, no. My abilities. Lauren had a lot of ideas of like, but what if you did it with this person just for tonight? And I'm not, I will say, I'm not someone who advocates particularly well for myself, but that was, I remember just saying, I really, I think if you don't let me do it alone tonight, you're, it will just look like you don't think I can do it alone.

48:29Sean Hayes:Right. Uh-huh, right, right. And the eyes were on, you guys had had an amazing fall because it was the presidential race that year. Yes. You guys were every week crushing it. Well, I think maybe the, I mean, the last, probably just based on, I remember, you know, her silhouette, it must have been her last, update before Archie was the rap to Sarah Palin, right? So it is also, I mean, I get that Lauren is like, so here's the thing, you going on alone without the woman who just hardcore rapped to Sarah Palin like nine and a half months pregnant, I think he was looking out for me like genuinely, like I don't think, he was probably like, let's just try to give you a little help out there but I think ultimately what we, and what ultimately my era of solo hosting update was, was which just do a lot of features.

49:16You know what I mean? Like four jokes, Fred. Four jokes. I will tell you something.

49:20Sean Hayes:I'll tell you something really cool too, which, well, not, but I think it's cool, is we, of course, you know this very well because you were texting and contacting Amy and Archie and I, and he was, watched that episode live from the hospital.

49:32Will Arnett:That was the first show Archie ever saw.

49:34Sean Hayes:It was incredible, man. It was, and it was very emotional for her and for you guys and for us and for me. And Maya sang that song. all of it. Yeah, Kenan and Maya, TT and Mario, which was the first time with you, Jason. That was, TT and Mario was the soul singers. He doesn't. I'm gonna help them. You and Amy, you're on like a bearskin rug in front of, yes.

49:58Will Arnett:We're selling like a Kato. On the show, on the show, not the time you guys went away to talk. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Oh, you almost stepped in it. I did not lead you down a helpful path. That was, we sing those songs all the time, which is, they were very short, very inappropriate soul songs. They were kind of like an Ashford and Simpson. And one of the songs, the entirety of one of the songs was, let me put it in a little bit, just a tip. Yeah, just a tip. They were very short songs. Oh yeah, and then like a smash zoom with the camera. Just a tip. Like right in on their face. Yeah, I remember that.

50:36Shaky, shaky. But that was, so T.T. Amaro were saying, a song to Archie. To Archie, yeah, it was amazing.

50:44Sean Hayes:That's so cool. So, but then you go, so now you're on your own and you end up, and however, you got it off the ground really well. It's, you know, behind the scenes, Lauren, as you said, was maybe a little bit nervous and whatever. We'll see. But you end up now, in a way, do you think that that prepared you for ultimately doing Late Night? Because you kind of grew in confidence. You handled it so well. The audience never sensed that. And I don't think that, and there's no, obviously you and Amy were great together, but you really owned that era of doing it yourself. And you took that into late night.

51:22Sean Hayes:Do you feel like that experience helped you? I think it, I mean, I think it helped people see me as somebody who could do late night, which is ultimately like the bigger problem as far as the jobs we want, is you need the people who give those jobs out to see it. Yeah. and so that was great but again I had no eyes on it

51:41Will Arnett:no one wants to go first yeah and by the way I owe great credit to the fact that it worked for that Jimmy made it work late night because I think you know ultimately the complete lack of originality in network thinking led them to like what if that's the other update guy was did Conan proceed Fallon yeah yeah yeah yeah but it was it was Conan and Jimmy and then and then it was Jay hey, Conan and Jimmy, and then it was Jay and Jimmy. Right, right, right. It was a lot of, it was a fun time. But how many years have you done the Late Show? Like 12? It started in 2014. Yeah, 2014. So yeah, February will be 12 years.

52:18No, February will be 13. Yeah. It's nuts. But it was, I will say a lot of the update stuff actually I think worked against figuring out the show because of, you know, one thing was so much of Update was about me and the best cast, one of the best casts in the history of SNL. and then you're just like, now it's you without any of that. But maybe without the cast.

52:40Sean Hayes:But, and we go back to Shoemaker, a guy who had worked closely with you in the writing process. First of all, I'd encouraged you. Yes. And then you guys really partnered and you guys went and did it together. You had a really great, solid, you guys knew each other. That's such a cheat because often I think when you start late night, not that I know, you're really, you're hoping it works out. You're hoping the dynamic works out. You guys had years of working together. We had a shorthand. We had an agreement about what I was good at and what I hadn't been good at. And we had also been there together while I had tried all the stuff that had not worked about.

53:17Like, I'm going to be a regular sketch cast player on SNL. And we'd kind of watch that fail to, you know, bear any fruit. And so, but the thing that frustrates me so much, and I say this with love, I remember Lauren said, it'll take you 18 months to figure it out. And I had the confidence to be like, It's not going to take me 18 months. And then 18 months into the show is when I was like, I'm going to stop doing a standing monologue and I'm going to start the show at the desk. And I remember I didn't even realize it had been 18 months, but the minute I did that, I'm like, oh, this is it. And then I'm like, oh, fuck.

53:46I was right.

53:48Will Arnett:But on SNL, you were leading the writing process, were you not? Were you head writer either in name or in practicality? I was head writer. I was head writer for basically the end of my run on the show. I was update and head writer. And I will say to this day, probably the title, if it's not too silly to be proud of titles, the thing I'm proudest of is the fact that I was the head writer on SNL. Yeah, you should be. But again, the hardest or the most utile I was is bringing notes from Lorne to the writing staff. Like, I worked, that writing staff would have been fine without me. They were just absolute top-to-bottom bangers.

54:35It was an incredible group of people.

54:37Will Arnett:You then basically, obviously by default and title, become head writer on your own show. And how, compare those two workloads, positions, levels of responsibility. So it's actually Alex Bays, who was the head writer at Weekend Update, was the one person I poached when I left. And the one person, as soon as I got the job, the first thing Lorne said was, you can't have bass. Like, even Lorne knew how good he was. He's the greatest living joke writer. He's incredible. And so he's our head writer. And the job, I still do a ton of writing on my show, but I only rewrite. Like, so much of my time at SNL was that, like, open on, you know, like the worst part of writing, just blank page.

55:23I remember Jost in his office, like, had a, But to this day, I'll go in because it's my old office. And he has the names of all the cast just printed. And I think of sometimes you just want to look at names and hope that just anything to get you started. Like who does what? And so it is lovely to have transitioned to a part of my career where I'm rewriting more than writing. Gotcha. I mean, I think I went back and hosted in 2017. I'd only been gone three years. and I had this, you know, grand plan. I'm like, I'm going to get back. I'm going to crack my knuckles, write a couple of old, old school sketches.

56:01And I just, it felt like somebody trying to, it was, remember when Mark Spitz came back and tried to swim in the Olympics? And you saw like a picture of him and you're like, he still looks good. And then he just got in the pool and you're like, no, no. Like that's, that's how it felt.

56:16Will Arnett:The hours have got to be similar or better or worse? No, no, no. It's, this is unbelievable. My hours now compared to the, I don't know. how so right now it's the best I don't know how I could have had a family with SNL hours in the way that I do now I mean we tape our show at four in the afternoon and we don't do a post-mortem again Shoemaker his thing was like look we if there's something you're mad about tomorrow let's have a meeting but if you go home I bet you'll come in tomorrow and be more concerned about tonight's show and you'll realize that the thing you're mad about everybody noticed that it went wrong and and nobody will want it to go wrong again, and ultimately let's save ourselves 90 minutes.

56:58That's so interesting. Because, again, you're just churning them out one after the other. And not in a bad way. I don't mean that in a negative way, but it does really force you to look to the future and just try to slowly bring up.

57:11Will Arnett:But it is daily, right? Except instead of weekly. Even though the daily workload on SNL, from my limited view of it, It does seem pretty rigorous. I would imagine on your show currently, it is much more involved. It's, I mean, again, I get there first thing in the morning and I'm working the whole day. Like there's no downtime, but it's not boring because it's all, you know, you're all churning towards this really exciting release and, you know, the adrenaline rush of walking out into a studio where, you know, 180 people are there to watch it.

57:53Sean Hayes:Do you feel like you have to consciously, because it is daily and you do deal with topical things, do you feel the need to, like, fuck, I've got to plow through every newspaper this morning. I need to be up on every—no? I sometimes feel like I get my news from the first draft. Yeah, right. And I'm like, that's also fine. I mean, like, you know, again, like, it's not like I'm not looking at social media and scrolling through Twitter and seeing, like, what's happening in the world. So I'm not like caught flat footed, but I don't, you know, I, on Sunday, do I, you know, think it's important to watch, you know, a lot of the, you know, Sunday news shows.

58:32Yeah. But like, I'm not, I don't feel like I'm some, you know, insatiable news junkie for the purpose of my show, which is, which is nice.

58:42Sean Hayes:You can always just call Bateman. You can just call Bateman. I'll plug you in. Do you ever get, do you ever get tired of it though? I mean, do you ever get like, need a break? You know, we're talking during a hiatus. I think maybe when this airs, we'll be back on. I can't wait to be back on, like genuinely. I love the people I work with. I also, you know, it's a very, hopefully it's a cathartic show to watch and it's very cathartic to do. So my mental health is a lot more locked in when I have the show as a way to sort of like, you know, anxiety dump.

59:19Will Arnett:What do you look forward to doing? Sorry, Willie. When you guys are powered down during the summer, what is the thing you look most forward to doing with the family each year? Is it travel? Is it doing nothing? Is it just playing house? We got beach kids. I got a father-in-law with a boat. Highly recommend having a father-in-law with a boat. Just a little motorboat. Sure. Just, you know, but that's a good thing to do with your kids. I got you. But in general, they're also, you know, they're 10, 8, and my daughter's almost 5. Just good company right now. Yeah, such good ages. For the first time where I'm really like, you know what?

1:00:00You're all a lot less boring. Yeah.

1:00:02Will Arnett:And they're much more self-sufficient at that age, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the curse, right? Like, the minute they're not boring, they're like, hey, I'm meeting other people. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:00:12Sean Hayes:I know you watch a lot. Historically, you've watched a lot of films. You watch a lot of shows. is like you enjoy absorbing all sorts of art, if you will. What are the things, what's the thing that, and you watch a lot of sports, you say you don't play, but you do, you watch a ton of sports. What's the thing, what is the thing that you do? Are you watching Below Deck like JB and me? Are you, anything like that? Widows Bay, that was my, the last show that I really loved. I want to see how he watches that. Matthew Reese is great. Yeah. That dude's awesome. Really good, a very good dude. Dude, that's the last thing I feel like I...

1:00:49Do you ever watch documentaries, like true crime documentaries? Not with much consistency.

1:00:55Will Arnett:I love them. And then what is the go-to sport? It's football? It's Steelers football? It depends on, I will say, like if you have, if your baseball team is any good, it's very fun in the summer to care about baseball. But I would say like... And what is your team? Sox? The Red Sox and then also, my dad's from Pittsburgh, so the Pirates to a smaller degree. And then, but the Steelers 100 % and I do feel like I'm gearing up for that emotional rollercoaster. Not in a way that we're excited. Are you guys fans of sports teams outside of where you grew up? Yeah. No. I mean, I'm a Liverpool. You didn't grow up in Boston, Seth, right?

1:01:34Well, New Hampshire is, we got the Boston Sports Channel.

1:01:38Sean Hayes:You're fucking right next to it, dude. Although, I tell a story, I was at a charity event once and a Wahlberg, I won't say which one. He was like, are you from Boston? And I said, I'm from New Hampshire. And he said, so no?

1:02:00I was like, that is the perfect sort of provincial rudeness of someone who like gets the Boston Globe. I'm like, I'm within the window of the Boston Globe getting delivered. Home delivery, yeah.

1:02:13Will Arnett:Well, could you imagine ever being called the New England Red Sox. I mean, that would give you an excuse then, right? But they don't. Yeah, the New England Patriots do it. But it is, it's so funny because like I, again, you know, I got my start in Chicago. Chicago totally owns me. My dad's from Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh totally owns me. Boston, just kind of in the middle. Never the Cubs. You know what I mean? Never the Cubs? They're pretty agnostic. Never the Cubs. Never the White Sox? No. No. And never the Bears. Right. No. Okay. I just didn't care. I had a true love, and I didn't need more. Got it.

1:02:51Sure.

1:02:51Sean Hayes:Sure. What do you think— Everybody asks this all the time. What do you think— Is going to happen in the Middle East? Well, don't get me started. Listen, the Straight to Hormuz is open, okay? By the way, in case you didn't know, it's open for business. It's wide open. And, by the way, it doesn't matter how far we're recording this based on when it comes out. It's going to stay open. It's still open.

1:03:13Will Arnett:It's never been closed.

1:03:17Sean Hayes:Now, last thing, what are the next five years for you? If you had to look, because we were talking about, like, what do you want to do in the preamble, in our coffee chat, as JB calls it, where do you see it going? What do you want to do? Look, I mean, I don't know. I would love to say in five years from now, I'm still doing late night. I have no, I'm not tired of it at all. I really, really enjoy it. But, you know, I do think more than maybe even the things I learned at SNL helped me figure out late night. I think what I've done at late night will be stuff that will help me figure out a great many things.

1:03:49And ultimately, the fear I had leaving SNL was like, I'm so worried my next job is going to be boring. And this one isn't. So I think the key is just to find something where you're just not bored. Well, I don't think you have to worry.

1:04:01Sean Hayes:You're a great comedy mind. You're a great mind. People love watching you, including me. You're super, super funny. You're a wonderful talent set. Yeah, you're going to find. This was so much fun. And you've got no plan B. That's the good news. No, Plan B, not even. All these years later, not Plan B. So you're going to be just fine. Yeah. Yeah. And hey, Jason, I know you couldn't, but I can hear you.

1:04:25Will Arnett:Thank you. Oh, wow. Thank you. And you see me. I can hear you. And you see me. Yeah, I can see you too. We love you, Seth Meyers. Yeah, we love you, Seth. Thank you for coming, dude. What a delight. Thank you for doing this. All right, guys. I'll see you soon. Thanks, Seth. All right, bye. Bye, Seth. Thank you.

1:04:43Sean Hayes:the great Seth Meyers he's so great you know what you can tell he's a great writer and a great person of comedy just because of his natural wit like he's so funny naturally just speaking so witty well I love he's so conversational in his show on his show and as you said and so witty yeah so fast yeah like crazy fast and fast facile yeah Yeah, I mean, we've all done his show, right? We've all been on his show, and he's... I don't know how you do that every single day where you're just on, on, on, on, on, and he's so natural at it. Anyway, he's one of the best.

1:05:19Will Arnett:Yeah, he's super smooth, always so kind, and gregarious, and he's just a... So smart.

1:05:26Sean Hayes:So smart.

1:05:27Will Arnett:Yeah, he is a perfect host, for sure. He really is. God. And I feel like... Is that the first time he's been on this show?

1:05:35Sean Hayes:Yeah, isn't that crazy?

1:05:37Will Arnett:What is the deal? I don't know. I don't know.

1:05:39Sean Hayes:And then I ran into him last year. We've been trying to put this together for almost a year just with dates and stuff. Because I was like, how did we not? Yeah, I mean, he's definitely. Oh, boy. Oh, boy.

1:05:53Will Arnett:Why do I see you coming from around the corner every time? He chokes the puppy. I think he literally grabs the microphone when he gets an idea. Sean, what is he? I just want to say he wasn't on today by accident. He was on today. No, he wasn't on today. It's still rolling. Jesus. He was on today because he was purposefully on today. He wasn't on by accident.

1:06:27Sean Hayes:I mean, less committal. Will, you got anything? I don't know. You know, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Sean, but I don't. Bye. Bye. Bye. There we go. Bye. Bye. Smart. Less.

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